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"Hmmm so countries in the EU are making unilateral sovereign decisions...another debunking of the Brexit sovereignty argument! " (Article 168(1) of the TFEU). Primary responsibility for health protection and, in particular, healthcare systems continues to lie with the Member States. | |||
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"All good points . Aren’t jabs now compulsory in the caring professions now in this country ? I doubt we will be made to get a jab but our choices of where we can go or what we can do will I guess be greatly reduced . We tend to all live under this thin cape of a free world , where everyone lives under the illusion of equality and fair play . I’m jabbed it was my choice . I’m a newbie to the forums hope I don’t sound like a dick , I’m sure someone will say " Hep B (I believe) is mandatory on the principle that people who are likely to be exposed to it through their job, need to be able to do their job without hesitation. It's about protecting themselves and not sueing their employer for exposing them to it. So it's not comparable to this where people are pretending the vaccine protects others and ignoring the hard science of natural immunity. It's also worth noting that you would be advised not to get vaccinated against other things if you already had natural immunity. | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ" Justb a year ago this would have been unthinkable. Mandating medical procedures is the sort of thing you'd expect in N. Korea NOT central Europe. That folks is how much freedom people are losing. | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ Justb a year ago this would have been unthinkable. Mandating medical procedures is the sort of thing you'd expect in N. Korea NOT central Europe. That folks is how much freedom people are losing. " Are they going to arrest people and then force them to have the Jab whilst restraining them ? Thank God we have Boris the libertarian in U.K. | |||
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"Apparently Austria mandated compulsory smallpox vaccination in 1948, so it's not a first there. A small number of countries have compulsory vaccination for Covid for adults. It's yet to become law, so will have to see. It is concerning though." I believe the first vaccine mandate in the world was in England and Wales in 1853. | |||
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"I am all for freedom of choice however we are close to 2 years now since the 1st cases hit us. Still we have no sign of an end to the pandemic. Something has to change and all options need to be considered " OK, how about we break the UK into a pro-choice and a mandatory vaccination country. We'll take Wales or something. | |||
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"I am all for freedom of choice however we are close to 2 years now since the 1st cases hit us. Still we have no sign of an end to the pandemic. Something has to change and all options need to be considered " How about the people living it fear stay at home and cower behind the couch, let the rest of the population who realise that life is full of risks, just get on with it. No measures the government puts in place will stop this now. | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ" Surely everyone, both vaxxed and unvaxxed is hair-raisingly alarmed by this? I can guarantee though that there will still be those who think it’s a good idea. | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ Surely everyone, both vaxxed and unvaxxed is hair-raisingly alarmed by this? I can guarantee though that there will still be those who think it’s a good idea." I'm pro vax but yes I think this is a bad idea. Just Google "austria mandatory vaccine" it's been reported across loads of international media outlets. I bet lots of other countries are watching to assess how impactful the backlash will be and if it's actually viable for them to follow suit. (Will the Austrian public accept a step like this?) KJ | |||
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"Hmmm so countries in the EU are making unilateral sovereign decisions...another debunking of the Brexit sovereignty argument! (Article 168(1) of the TFEU). Primary responsibility for health protection and, in particular, healthcare systems continues to lie with the Member States. " Yep I know but the whole loss of sovereignty rhetoric strongly implied the EU had control ove pretty much everything! | |||
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"What are they going to do, pin people down. I'm not anitvax, I'm very strong pro choice. What is going on slaps democracy in the face, its a dictatorship no less. " Well fast forward to let's say 2040 by then we will have destroyed even more of the limited wild that's left ( Football pitch-sized area of tropical rainforest lost every six seconds currently) caused further viruses to jump from animals to man. Made worse by the constant unsustainable growth in numbers of humans on the planet. By then we could have faced a few more new virus pandemics with higher death rates than COVID (think the Spanish flu). Add to that the rapido on set of climate change could see economic migrants been rapidly replaced by climate migrants by 2040. It could be a perfect storm brewing that leads to self interest nationalism and dictorships springing up in countries we never expected it to. For those of who will be around we are certainly entering uncharted waters. KJ | |||
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"What are they going to do, pin people down. I'm not anitvax, I'm very strong pro choice. What is going on slaps democracy in the face, its a dictatorship no less. Well fast forward to let's say 2040 by then we will have destroyed even more of the limited wild that's left ( Football pitch-sized area of tropical rainforest lost every six seconds currently) caused further viruses to jump from animals to man. Made worse by the constant unsustainable growth in numbers of humans on the planet. By then we could have faced a few more new virus pandemics with higher death rates than COVID (think the Spanish flu). Add to that the rapido on set of climate change could see economic migrants been rapidly replaced by climate migrants by 2040. It could be a perfect storm brewing that leads to self interest nationalism and dictorships springing up in countries we never expected it to. For those of who will be around we are certainly entering uncharted waters. KJ" I've never been so glad to be childless. | |||
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"What you gunna do if you don't like it glue you hands down on a motorway " what i ment to say was close the borders and to holiday makers and non urgent travle | |||
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"Would it not be sensible to close our airports and stop holiday flights now to try and stop this 4th wave coming into the country or it might already be here " Don’t worry about people coming in, the great British public are quite capable of kicking another wave off all by themselves 
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"No jab no job (unless exempt). This is a once in a 100 year global emergency. " A bit like the draft in WW2 That worked out well as criminal activity rose by 1000’s % | |||
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"No jab no job (unless exempt). This is a once in a 100 year global emergency. A bit like the draft in WW2 That worked out well as criminal activity rose by 1000’s %" Was that because of the draft? Or the war? Interesting read across conscription versus vaccines. One to ponder ! | |||
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"Hmmm so countries in the EU are making unilateral sovereign decisions...another debunking of the Brexit sovereignty argument! Beyond what you have written, I do not know the details but as read this is hideous. I do not remotely agree that the state should mandate vaccination or make it seemingly illegal to not be. Vaccination should be about choice and an individual’s right of sovereignty over their own body." This doesn't 'debunk the Brexit sovereignty argument' because health was always a national competence | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ" It is scary stuff. What about those who are Vaxed but where the vax is not effective or those after 6 months or 9 months whose vaccine is not very effective...? | |||
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"I am all for freedom of choice however we are close to 2 years now since the 1st cases hit us. Still we have no sign of an end to the pandemic. Something has to change and all options need to be considered How about the people living it fear stay at home and cower behind the couch, let the rest of the population who realise that life is full of risks, just get on with it. No measures the government puts in place will stop this now." It's not very kind nor accurate nor necessary to categorise anyone as cowering behind the couch. | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ It is scary stuff. What about those who are Vaxed but where the vax is not effective or those after 6 months or 9 months whose vaccine is not very effective...? " But that doesn’t matter does it because you rolled up your sleeve and had the needle, effective or not we don’t know. How this plays out will be interesting to see but shutting some people away, I’m not convinced they’ll get the reduction they are hoping for. | |||
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"What you gunna do if you don't like it glue you hands down on a motorway what i ment to say was close the borders and to holiday makers and non urgent travle " I know mate but you know the UK won't do anything till it's too late. Mite as well put our heads between our thighs an kiss our arse goodbye it's here to stay | |||
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"No jab no job (unless exempt). This is a once in a 100 year global emergency. A bit like the draft in WW2 That worked out well as criminal activity rose by 1000’s % Was that because of the draft? Or the war? Interesting read across conscription versus vaccines. One to ponder !" If you force people into hiding or make them jobless deliberately (like they did for the draft in WW2) people will do what’s necessary to survive | |||
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"No jab no job (unless exempt). This is a once in a 100 year global emergency. A bit like the draft in WW2 That worked out well as criminal activity rose by 1000’s % Was that because of the draft? Or the war? Interesting read across conscription versus vaccines. One to ponder ! If you force people into hiding or make them jobless deliberately (like they did for the draft in WW2) people will do what’s necessary to survive " I thought it was survival wasn't so secure. The blackout making crime easier. Also increased supply of weapons from the military. | |||
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"people will do what’s necessary to survive " You mean get a vaccine? | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ" must be ss in control no human rights. For them then is the rest of the world going to sit back and do nothing surly this is totaly wrong | |||
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"No jab no job (unless exempt). This is a once in a 100 year global emergency. A bit like the draft in WW2 That worked out well as criminal activity rose by 1000’s % Was that because of the draft? Or the war? Interesting read across conscription versus vaccines. One to ponder ! If you force people into hiding or make them jobless deliberately (like they did for the draft in WW2) people will do what’s necessary to survive I thought it was survival wasn't so secure. The blackout making crime easier. Also increased supply of weapons from the military." Yes must have been the blackout & weapons that committed the crimes Not the people that had nothing to lose & a family to feed. | |||
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"people will do what’s necessary to survive You mean get a vaccine?" That’s your view & you have every right to it. The same as individuals have the right to say no | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ must be ss in control no human rights. For them then is the rest of the world going to sit back and do nothing surly this is totaly wrong " Apart from reporting on it in the media yes the rest of the world is definitely letting then crack on with it. In fact many countries want to do the same and are sitting back to see how it goes down tbh. KJ | |||
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"people will do what’s necessary to survive You mean get a vaccine? That’s your view & you have every right to it. The same as individuals have the right to say no " It’s a fact, not a view. | |||
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"people will do what’s necessary to survive You mean get a vaccine? That’s your view & you have every right to it. The same as individuals have the right to say no It’s a fact, not a view. " Laughable | |||
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"Austria is calling bluff, they are claiming that 35% of the population are unjabbed, that equates to 3.1 mill people, lets take a look at austrias prison numbers, they have 27 prisons with a population of 8180 and the official capacity of the prison system of austria is 8602, so the prisons are quite already full, even if they would empty them, there wouldnt be any capacity to fit them all in, it is an policy that they cant follow through on, it is impossible." They’ll just hit people in their pockets instead. They’ve got to recoup lost revenue caused by lockdowns somewhere haven’t they? | |||
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"Austria is calling bluff, they are claiming that 35% of the population are unjabbed, that equates to 3.1 mill people, lets take a look at austrias prison numbers, they have 27 prisons with a population of 8180 and the official capacity of the prison system of austria is 8602, so the prisons are quite already full, even if they would empty them, there wouldnt be any capacity to fit them all in, it is an policy that they cant follow through on, it is impossible." Most the 35% are children | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ Justb a year ago this would have been unthinkable. Mandating medical procedures is the sort of thing you'd expect in N. Korea NOT central Europe. That folks is how much freedom people are losing. " We lost our true freedom years ago, the freedom to own full bore pistols and rifles. | |||
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"I am all for freedom of choice however we are close to 2 years now since the 1st cases hit us. Still we have no sign of an end to the pandemic. Something has to change and all options need to be considered How about the people living it fear stay at home and cower behind the couch, let the rest of the population who realise that life is full of risks, just get on with it. No measures the government puts in place will stop this now." Talking way to much sense there  | |||
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"All good points . Aren’t jabs now compulsory in the caring professions now in this country ? I doubt we will be made to get a jab but our choices of where we can go or what we can do will I guess be greatly reduced . We tend to all live under this thin cape of a free world , where everyone lives under the illusion of equality and fair play . I’m jabbed it was my choice . I’m a newbie to the forums hope I don’t sound like a dick , I’m sure someone will say Hep B (I believe) is mandatory on the principle that people who are likely to be exposed to it through their job, need to be able to do their job without hesitation. It's about protecting themselves and not sueing their employer for exposing them to it. So it's not comparable to this where people are pretending the vaccine protects others and ignoring the hard science of natural immunity. It's also worth noting that you would be advised not to get vaccinated against other things if you already had natural immunity. " The covid jab is also mandatory for all care workers now. No jab, no job. Thousands are already leaving or being sacked from a critically understaffed sector because of this. | |||
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"What is the point of making this vaccine manatory when you can still catch and pass on this virus? Never mind 4th wave coming 4th jab will be here soon....at what point do you realise natural immunity was the way to go" I know this argument keeps being shouted... Even though the vaccines (multiple) don't 100% stop people becoming infected or infecting others, they DO massively reduce the chances of getting infected and they DO massively reduce the chance of infecting others IF you do get infected. The vaccines also reduce the severity of illness if you should get infected and have saved many lives. The downside of Natural immunity, is that it requires people get ill first. Cal | |||
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" The covid jab is also mandatory for all care workers now. No jab, no job. Thousands are already leaving or being sacked from a critically understaffed sector because of this. " Whilst a COVID Jab in the care industry is mandatory, you shouldn't believe everything else that you read! | |||
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"What is the point of making this vaccine manatory when you can still catch and pass on this virus? Never mind 4th wave coming 4th jab will be here soon....at what point do you realise natural immunity was the way to go" Because firstly it prevents you from dying and secondly because it prevents serious illness, it also protects the NHS from becoming even more overloaded! | |||
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" The covid jab is also mandatory for all care workers now. No jab, no job. Thousands are already leaving or being sacked from a critically understaffed sector because of this. Whilst a COVID Jab in the care industry is mandatory, you shouldn't believe everything else that you read! " I know this from personal experience. I have friends being told they can no longer work in the industry as they havent been vaccinated. | |||
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"What is the point of making this vaccine manatory when you can still catch and pass on this virus? Never mind 4th wave coming 4th jab will be here soon....at what point do you realise natural immunity was the way to go I know this argument keeps being shouted... Even though the vaccines (multiple) don't 100% stop people becoming infected or infecting others, they DO massively reduce the chances of getting infected and they DO massively reduce the chance of infecting others IF you do get infected. The vaccines also reduce the severity of illness if you should get infected and have saved many lives. The downside of Natural immunity, is that it requires people get ill first. Cal" What is a "massive" reduction in getting infected in percentage terms? | |||
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"What is the point of making this vaccine manatory when you can still catch and pass on this virus? Never mind 4th wave coming 4th jab will be here soon....at what point do you realise natural immunity was the way to go I know this argument keeps being shouted... Even though the vaccines (multiple) don't 100% stop people becoming infected or infecting others, they DO massively reduce the chances of getting infected and they DO massively reduce the chance of infecting others IF you do get infected. The vaccines also reduce the severity of illness if you should get infected and have saved many lives. The downside of Natural immunity, is that it requires people get ill first. Cal What is a "massive" reduction in getting infected in percentage terms? " The figures are different for each if the different vaccines, but seem to be between 60% and 90%, the reduction in being able to infect others IF you do get infected is also around 40%-60%. Cal | |||
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"Hmmm so countries in the EU are making unilateral sovereign decisions...another debunking of the Brexit sovereignty argument! Beyond what you have written, I do not know the details but as read this is hideous. I do not remotely agree that the state should mandate vaccination or make it seemingly illegal to not be. Vaccination should be about choice and an individual’s right of sovereignty over their own body. This doesn't 'debunk the Brexit sovereignty argument' because health was always a national competence" You know that, I know that, but plenty didn’t and just thought the big bad EU controlled everything (ignoring we were in the EU so were doing with not being done to). When you start discussing it becomes the inverse of the “what have the Romans ever done for us?” | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal" Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ " Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal | |||
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"What is the point of making this vaccine manatory when you can still catch and pass on this virus? Never mind 4th wave coming 4th jab will be here soon....at what point do you realise natural immunity was the way to go" Please consider. 1. The vaccination is not a suit of armour or a hazmat suit. It does not stop people being infected. It does however enable the body to effectively fight the infection once in it. Vaccinated people hardly ever require special treatment and recovery is far faster. 2. Similarly natural immunity, herd immunity, is not a hazmat suit. In the millenia colds have been around humans still catch them. It's just they hardly ever kill anyone these days. Covid 19 is here to stay and it may be many decades before it is as minor as a cold if we rely on natural immunity which wains after 6 months. 3. Currently hospitals are almost full of unvaccinated people being treated for covid-19 in ICU. Whilst they may well now survive due to advances in treatment they are using up intensive care spaces so others, for example, with cancer, road accident trauma, birthing problems, emergency and routine operations etc. etc. are struggling to get the treatment they require. If everyone was vaccinated very few would require hospital treatment and hospitals could concentrate on other priorities. I am not a Doctor but I understand that is the case. Does that help to see why the vaccination is needed? | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ " I suspect (guess) the effectiveness depends on context. Household contact is fairly intense versus lighter contact in the outside world. I'm suprised both numbers are relatively low for household transmission. | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal" Sorry may have missed earlier posts but do those figures take account of declining efficacy? Simple back of fag packet calc (with very approx numbers as not going to look it up)... 50m UK adults x 80% double jabbed - 91% reduced infection / 365 days = 9,863 infections per day. So far short of c.40k so does that mean the other 30k are unvaccinated. Don’t think stats I have seen support that? | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal" When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggests | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggests" doesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. " Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. " it would be great albeit very hard to analyse that data (was the risk the commute or the office ?). However any insight was lost with the "big bang"'freedom day. We could have kept masks mandated for a month, seen what happened, then watched what happened when masks were removed. | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. it would be great albeit very hard to analyse that data (was the risk the commute or the office ?). However any insight was lost with the "big bang"'freedom day. We could have kept masks mandated for a month, seen what happened, then watched what happened when masks were removed. " Shame the masks went people’s chins are getting really cold now winter is here | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. it would be great albeit very hard to analyse that data (was the risk the commute or the office ?). However any insight was lost with the "big bang"'freedom day. We could have kept masks mandated for a month, seen what happened, then watched what happened when masks were removed. Shame the masks went people’s chins are getting really cold now winter is here " I predict the return of the snood. Scarf and mask in one !! | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. it would be great albeit very hard to analyse that data (was the risk the commute or the office ?). However any insight was lost with the "big bang"'freedom day. We could have kept masks mandated for a month, seen what happened, then watched what happened when masks were removed. " On that we agree. There is strong evidence that vaccines help reduce serious illness and / or admission / death from covid... The story with regard to infections / transmissions is much less clear. It very much has the feel of the emperors new clothes and pluralistic ignorance to me. The more people get injected the more are getting infected (yes should be a rapper) is my take of the statistics. Why with the booster are they increasing even more(is one question) But as the discussion above shows... People like to see things to support their beliefs, including myself. | |||
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"A CDC study published in June 2021 stated a reduction of 91% in the rate of infection for full vaccinated people. I know people will say "most of those infected have been jabbed" but when most most of the (uk) population has been vaccinated, they are bound to be higher numbers... but the daily infection rated would likely be 10x higher without the vaccines. Cal Oh come on you can't believe those figures surely... Take a look at what's been happening... If they were that effective after 6 months we wouldn't have over 40k new infections a day.... Here's a link and a quote to an imperial study.... Which makes a lot more sense..and seems much more in line with what we are seeing... Where the benefits re infections are marginal and not massive. "It finds that people who have received two doses of vaccine have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the delta variant in the home compared with people who are unvaccinated. The authors stress that vaccination also reduces the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19." https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/ Considering we are in the midst of a third wave of a pandemic... at the peak of the second wave we were locked down, wearing masks,and observing social distancing.... and recording 100k daily cases. The figuresthat different agencies provide are all generated from studying data, but we don't know how their data is selected. 91% across the board is unlikely, but 60-90% I believe is totally accurate. Cal When were we ever seeing 100k infections a day in lockdown and restrictions? I agree we don't often if ever see the data sets that are chosen to arrive at the desired outcomes nor the methods chosen. Often times the most relevant is that which we see with our own eyes and occams razor. If the rate of infection is higher in those vaccinated, I'm not buying 90 percent protection against infection. However here's another set of reports with a different outcome...again the language used is very different to "massive" and the percentages very different to 90 %. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggestsdoesn't this link to the same paper? issue is defining protection .... Reduced symptoms, or not catching it at all...? Paper seems to be linked to viral loads rather than symptoms. Other studies will look at hospitalisation rates etc. Does it? I hadn't appreciated that.i only read the editorial, the point of which was an entirely different picture was being chosen to be painted. 2 years into this and billions of pounds it does make me wonder why more real world situations aren't being analysed... With people being encouraged to work from home... But is it safer than working from work? What about transmission in rush hour trains tubes and planes taxis, ditto for pubs and events, supermarkets and so on... Some experimentation / analysis of transmissions in hese situations would be helpful for people to manage their behaviours but also if evidence was provided it could help persuade people to get 1 2 or 3 jabs... And of course whatever follows next year. it would be great albeit very hard to analyse that data (was the risk the commute or the office ?). However any insight was lost with the "big bang"'freedom day. We could have kept masks mandated for a month, seen what happened, then watched what happened when masks were removed. On that we agree. There is strong evidence that vaccines help reduce serious illness and / or admission / death from covid... The story with regard to infections / transmissions is much less clear. It very much has the feel of the emperors new clothes and pluralistic ignorance to me. The more people get injected the more are getting infected (yes should be a rapper) is my take of the statistics. Why with the booster are they increasing even more(is one question) But as the discussion above shows... People like to see things to support their beliefs, including myself." I think the more time how's on, the more people are opening up. That may be vaccine related. Or people deciding that they need to socialise more (eg I'm going to the office more and more as i remember the value of it). Imo vaccines allow such decisions to be made. I care about serious cases, not the few days off cases as I think zero cases will have too much other damage. | |||
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"With the exception of a medical exemption I see no valid reason for anyone to refuse vaccination, why would you do that ? This virus is going to continue to kill unless we take action to prevent it from doing so, antivaxers are just another group of conspiracy theory nutters, only in their case unlike the flat earthers or moon landing deniers they're actually doing some measurable harm, so my reply is yes... make vaccination mandatory, either using legislation or by making sure a normal life is not possible unless you're vaccinated. " If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind The attitude of some so quick to exclude others from society absolutely disgusts me. Especially when you can still catch and transmit the exact same virus as these people you'd happily discard. | |||
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"Imagine if social media was around in 1853 when the Smallpox vaccine was mandatory "Not so much vaccination, as infection. The patient was deliberately infected with the Vaccinia virus, the immunity gained to that virus also gave immunity to smallpox. Much better than the process of variolation, which was deliberately infecting people with a less-lethal version of smallpox (fatality rate of 2%-3%) (outlawed in the 1840s'in Britain) | |||
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" If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind " All vaccines have the potential to cause adverse reactions. There is not one vaccine that has not caused a reaction in any person. You have the right to refuse. With rights come responsibilities. | |||
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"Just shows freedom of choice is so precious and Tyrannical Government can happen anywhere in the world " As is responsibilities to others around you, which should be balanced against freedom of choice. | |||
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"Imagine if social media was around in 1853 when the Smallpox vaccine was mandatory
Not so much vaccination, as infection.
The patient was deliberately infected with the Vaccinia virus, the immunity gained to that virus also gave immunity to smallpox.
Much better than the process of variolation, which was deliberately infecting people with a less-lethal version of smallpox (fatality rate of 2%-3%) (outlawed in the 1840s'in Britain)"Spot on. Similar has happened with covid, ie some people seem to be naturally immune. Would be interesting to see what they have been in contact with previously which has given them the the immunity, if anything. | |||
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" If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind All vaccines have the potential to cause adverse reactions. There is not one vaccine that has not caused a reaction in any person. You have the right to refuse. With rights come responsibilities." If you have to choose between being vaccinated and living your life, its hardly a choice to start with. I'm all for vaccinations, I've had every jab I've ever needed since I was a kid. Tetanus is likely expired now, no doubt next time I injure myself I'll get a booster. I've also had two covid jabs. I fully believe all adults should get it If they can. However I will fight for anyones right to make that choice without fear or threat of repercussions. Whether they just don't want it or are apprehensive due to the risks. | |||
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"Imagine if social media was around in 1853 when the Smallpox vaccine was mandatory
Not so much vaccination, as infection.
The patient was deliberately infected with the Vaccinia virus, the immunity gained to that virus also gave immunity to smallpox.
Much better than the process of variolation, which was deliberately infecting people with a less-lethal version of smallpox (fatality rate of 2%-3%) (outlawed in the 1840s'in Britain)Spot on. Similar has happened with covid, ie some people seem to be naturally immune. Would be interesting to see what they have been in contact with previously which has given them the the immunity, if anything. "Bleach? | |||
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" If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind All vaccines have the potential to cause adverse reactions. There is not one vaccine that has not caused a reaction in any person. You have the right to refuse. With rights come responsibilities. If you have to choose between being vaccinated and living your life, its hardly a choice to start with. I'm all for vaccinations, I've had every jab I've ever needed since I was a kid. Tetanus is likely expired now, no doubt next time I injure myself I'll get a booster. I've also had two covid jabs. I fully believe all adults should get it If they can. However I will fight for anyones right to make that choice without fear or threat of repercussions. Whether they just don't want it or are apprehensive due to the risks." | |||
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" If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind All vaccines have the potential to cause adverse reactions. There is not one vaccine that has not caused a reaction in any person. You have the right to refuse. With rights come responsibilities. If you have to choose between being vaccinated and living your life, its hardly a choice to start with. I'm all for vaccinations, I've had every jab I've ever needed since I was a kid. Tetanus is likely expired now, no doubt next time I injure myself I'll get a booster. I've also had two covid jabs. I fully believe all adults should get it If they can. However I will fight for anyones right to make that choice without fear or threat of repercussions. Whether they just don't want it or are apprehensive due to the risks." | |||
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"Pretty sure will be an infringement of people human rights and will be challenged could turn out to be very controversial " Which human right would that be then, because governments all around the world already require and implement mandatory vaccinations. | |||
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"What countries are these" The U.K. for one if you want to do certain jobs. Several countries require you to nave vaccinations before you travel. | |||
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"With the exception of a medical exemption I see no valid reason for anyone to refuse vaccination, why would you do that ? This virus is going to continue to kill unless we take action to prevent it from doing so, antivaxers are just another group of conspiracy theory nutters, only in their case unlike the flat earthers or moon landing deniers they're actually doing some measurable harm, so my reply is yes... make vaccination mandatory, either using legislation or by making sure a normal life is not possible unless you're vaccinated. If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind The attitude of some so quick to exclude others from society absolutely disgusts me. Especially when you can still catch and transmit the exact same virus as these people you'd happily discard. " there's an element of risk with every form of medication from covid vaccine to aspirin, however the benefits of vaccination easily outweigh the risk, your "my body my choice" statement is fine... as long as should you end up in hospital with covid you pay your medical bills, your "my body my choice" statement is fine provided you never influence another person into not getting themselves vaccinated, if you did ever influence someone into not being vaccinated & then that person gets civid & dies I say YOU should be held.. at least in part, accountable for their death, I believe the good of the many outweighs the good of the few to be an axiom, if vaccination became mandatory & as a result a small number reacted badly to it & died but hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives were saved then I say its worth it, just my opinion you understand, I see in the news hospitals are already creaking under the strain of covid patients, the vast majority unvaccinated, so I say yes, charge them for their care & vaccinate them while they're in hospital whether they like it or not. | |||
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"With the exception of a medical exemption I see no valid reason for anyone to refuse vaccination, why would you do that ? This virus is going to continue to kill unless we take action to prevent it from doing so, antivaxers are just another group of conspiracy theory nutters, only in their case unlike the flat earthers or moon landing deniers they're actually doing some measurable harm, so my reply is yes... make vaccination mandatory, either using legislation or by making sure a normal life is not possible unless you're vaccinated. If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind The attitude of some so quick to exclude others from society absolutely disgusts me. Especially when you can still catch and transmit the exact same virus as these people you'd happily discard. there's an element of risk with every form of medication from covid vaccine to aspirin, however the benefits of vaccination easily outweigh the risk, your "my body my choice" statement is fine... as long as should you end up in hospital with covid you pay your medical bills, your "my body my choice" statement is fine provided you never influence another person into not getting themselves vaccinated, if you did ever influence someone into not being vaccinated & then that person gets civid & dies I say YOU should be held.. at least in part, accountable for their death, I believe the good of the many outweighs the good of the few to be an axiom, if vaccination became mandatory & as a result a small number reacted badly to it & died but hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives were saved then I say its worth it, just my opinion you understand, I see in the news hospitals are already creaking under the strain of covid patients, the vast majority unvaccinated, so I say yes, charge them for their care & vaccinate them while they're in hospital whether they like it or not. " What difference does it make if a vaxxed/unvaxxed person cause someone else's death? I'm sure it'll be of no comfort to them that the person who infected them had their jabs. As for influencing people, its little of my concern whether any tom, dick or harry gets jabbed. I'd advise everyone to do what I did, look at the pros and cons, then decide for yourself. I got my first two after I had COVID, I won't be getting the booster As for forcefully giving the jabs to those already in hospital? Where do we stop with forced medical procedures? When you get to 65, can't work any more. Shall we euthanize you and harvest what parts are still viable to be donated to a productive member of society? Why stop at forced injections, can't afford to raise you kids, let's sterilise you, lets just start culling the weak and inferior.... oh wait we're heading down the nazi route  | |||
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"With the exception of a medical exemption I see no valid reason for anyone to refuse vaccination, why would you do that ? This virus is going to continue to kill unless we take action to prevent it from doing so, antivaxers are just another group of conspiracy theory nutters, only in their case unlike the flat earthers or moon landing deniers they're actually doing some measurable harm, so my reply is yes... make vaccination mandatory, either using legislation or by making sure a normal life is not possible unless you're vaccinated. If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind The attitude of some so quick to exclude others from society absolutely disgusts me. Especially when you can still catch and transmit the exact same virus as these people you'd happily discard. there's an element of risk with every form of medication from covid vaccine to aspirin, however the benefits of vaccination easily outweigh the risk, your "my body my choice" statement is fine... as long as should you end up in hospital with covid you pay your medical bills, your "my body my choice" statement is fine provided you never influence another person into not getting themselves vaccinated, if you did ever influence someone into not being vaccinated & then that person gets civid & dies I say YOU should be held.. at least in part, accountable for their death, I believe the good of the many outweighs the good of the few to be an axiom, if vaccination became mandatory & as a result a small number reacted badly to it & died but hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives were saved then I say its worth it, just my opinion you understand, I see in the news hospitals are already creaking under the strain of covid patients, the vast majority unvaccinated, so I say yes, charge them for their care & vaccinate them while they're in hospital whether they like it or not. What difference does it make if a vaxxed/unvaxxed person cause someone else's death? I'm sure it'll be of no comfort to them that the person who infected them had their jabs. As for influencing people, its little of my concern whether any tom, dick or harry gets jabbed. I'd advise everyone to do what I did, look at the pros and cons, then decide for yourself. I got my first two after I had COVID, I won't be getting the booster As for forcefully giving the jabs to those already in hospital? Where do we stop with forced medical procedures? When you get to 65, can't work any more. Shall we euthanize you and harvest what parts are still viable to be donated to a productive member of society? Why stop at forced injections, can't afford to raise you kids, let's sterilise you, lets just start culling the weak and inferior.... oh wait we're heading down the nazi route "I feel your mind works a little weirdly, we're 2 years into arguably the worst pandemic in centuries, 3 million dead, global economies devastated, 4th waves of the virus sweeping across Europe, Austria has already gone down the mandatory vaccination route, the people of Austria have until February to get vaccinated, I can see you & I think diffently, which is fine, you think I'm at best out of order for suggesting mandatory vaccination is the way forward, & I feel that whole " my body my choice" is unbelievably selfish & inconsiderate, the hospitals are already bursting at the seams with selfish inconsiderate fools, there was even one moron in the news just yesterday, dead.. because he went to a "covid party" with the INTENTION of becoming infected, this my friend is natural selection happening right in front of your eyes | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 25/11/21 05:38:27]" I'm glad you agree. | |||
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"Are the MMR and other vaccines children get compulsory in the UK and/or other countries? If so then surely there is a precedent" The UK, no. They're required for school in some other countries. | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them?" The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good " Vaccinated people can catch and pass it on too. Why would they not have to show test results? | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good " Why would you only test those who are not vaccinated before visiting an indoor space.? Presumably the purpose of the test is to avoid infecting others... So why would all attendees not test? Or does the test serve a different purpose? | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good " Kind of like how aids victims were treated in the 80s and 90’s you mean. How tolerant of you. If you think the vaccine works then why would you be afraid of being inside with unjabbed | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good Vaccinated people can catch and pass it on too. Why would they not have to show test results? " From what I’ve read they are less likely with the vaccine, so it’s deemed less of a risk With unvaccinated they potentially could have no protection and be Infected I guess I’d add either a negative test or an antibody test | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good Kind of like how aids victims were treated in the 80s and 90’s you mean. How tolerant of you. If you think the vaccine works then why would you be afraid of being inside with unjabbed" Because I recognise nothing is 100% perfect. If things only work when they're guaranteed not to fail, then I sure hope you never eat food - it'll obviously injure you, because sometimes it does. I hope you never drive a car - sometimes they blow up, so getting in them ever is the height of dangerousness. Or being in buildings! Big Architecture is in cahoots with the government, it'll collapse. Wake up sheeple!  | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them?" Off to the camps! | |||
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" So Austria have announced that they have extended their unvaxxed lockdown to included the vaccinated as well from Monday on a 10 day rolling full lockdown. Added to this news was something far more alarming though. Austria have also said COVID vaccination with become a mandatory legal requirement for all citizens and they have until Feb 2022 to get jabbed up. I believe they are the 1st country to make vaccination mandatory. What I want to know is how will this be enforced? Will they lock up any unvaxxed walking the streets after the cut off date? As well as excluding them from entertainment venues such as concerts, pubs etc as is the case now, will it go much further? Will the illegally unvaxxed be cut off from employment, essential shops, leaving the home / walking the streets? Will they go the route of China and create camps to hold the illegally unvaxxed? I'm pro vax but this is scary stuff I have to say. It looks like Germany are also looking at restricting the unvaxxed aswell. I'm glad I'm not from / living in the EU as Europe faces this 4th COVID wave. I do think the UK government have a different mindset to many of the European governments and don't want to go down the same road. Here's hoping. KJ" Absolutely disgusting to do it, but even more disgusting they are allowed to do it | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them?Off to the camps! " No need for camps just load the water cannons up with the virus. Outcome: Everyone will have either natural immunity,immunity through the vaccine or are dead. Happy days. | |||
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"people will do what’s necessary to survive You mean get a vaccine? That’s your view & you have every right to it. The same as individuals have the right to say no It’s a fact, not a view. " Your view, not a fact just because you think it's right. | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good " You do know that being jabbed doesn't stop you giving it to someone else? On that fact, then everyone vaxxed & un-vaxxed should be banned from indoor events! You know all this get jabbed, don't get jabbed is just another way of dividing the population. Have you noticed the adverts for NHS staff have already started because they know come 1st of April, there's going to be a mass exodus. | |||
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"Hmmm so countries in the EU are making unilateral sovereign decisions...another debunking of the Brexit sovereignty argument! Beyond what you have written, I do not know the details but as read this is hideous. I do not remotely agree that the state should mandate vaccination or make it seemingly illegal to not be. Vaccination should be about choice and an individual’s right of sovereignty over their own body." sovereignty is some the powerful and rich dont like | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good You do know that being jabbed doesn't stop you giving it to someone else? On that fact, then everyone vaxxed & un-vaxxed should be banned from indoor events! You know all this get jabbed, don't get jabbed is just another way of dividing the population. Have you noticed the adverts for NHS staff have already started because they know come 1st of April, there's going to be a mass exodus. " Either that or they always need to recruit new staff as people leave or get old and retire? Just like any other organisation. | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good You do know that being jabbed doesn't stop you giving it to someone else? On that fact, then everyone vaxxed & un-vaxxed should be banned from indoor events! You know all this get jabbed, don't get jabbed is just another way of dividing the population. Have you noticed the adverts for NHS staff have already started because they know come 1st of April, there's going to be a mass exodus. Either that or they always need to recruit new staff as people leave or get old and retire? Just like any other organisation. " Yes that's very true but when was the last time we saw TV adverts asking people to join the NHS? I don't ever recall seeing any. | |||
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"How exactly would you enforce mandatory vaccines on somebody who refuses? To what levels would you support this enforcement? Fines? Prison sentences? Forcibly pinning someone down and jabbing them? The only form of mandate I would agree with would be a mandate that bans all unvaccinated from indoor places unless they can provide a negative test. I don’t believe in fines of physically forcing someone But if you don’t wanna be vaccinated? Cool just get a test done before visiting an indoor space and we’re all good You do know that being jabbed doesn't stop you giving it to someone else? On that fact, then everyone vaxxed & un-vaxxed should be banned from indoor events! You know all this get jabbed, don't get jabbed is just another way of dividing the population. Have you noticed the adverts for NHS staff have already started because they know come 1st of April, there's going to be a mass exodus. Either that or they always need to recruit new staff as people leave or get old and retire? Just like any other organisation. Yes that's very true but when was the last time we saw TV adverts asking people to join the NHS? I don't ever recall seeing any. " Pretty much every year for the last 20 years... Have a look on YouTube. | |||
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"If you use the term anti-vaxxer consider the possibility that rather that being on the high ground, you're in the quick sand, slowly sinking with facts that show the Vax is neither as safe or efficacious as you were promised back in January." But again the research has shown you are 5 times less likely to catch it… and 5 times less likely to pass it on… and 11 times less likely to end up in hospital as a serious case… than if you have never taken a shot … then what is that saying about those who won’t No one is saying it is infallible… Bit like wearing a seat belt…. You might not like wearing it… they aren’t infallible… but definitely help you if you are in a position where it would have help! | |||
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"If you use the term anti-vaxxer consider the possibility that rather that being on the high ground, you're in the quick sand, slowly sinking with facts that show the Vax is neither as safe or efficacious as you were promised back in January. But again the research has shown you are 5 times less likely to catch it… and 5 times less likely to pass it on… and 11 times less likely to end up in hospital as a serious case… than if you have never taken a shot … then what is that saying about those who won’t No one is saying it is infallible… Bit like wearing a seat belt…. You might not like wearing it… they aren’t infallible… but definitely help you if you are in a position where it would have help! " exactly | |||
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"If you use the term anti-vaxxer consider the possibility that rather that being on the high ground, you're in the quick sand, slowly sinking with facts that show the Vax is neither as safe or efficacious as you were promised back in January." Please provide evidence of where you obtained that facts behind that statement. Where did you find a serious peer reviewed report that said the vaccines are not as "safe or efficacious" as "promised". The key word here is "promised". I cannot recall any serious medical or government authority saying vaccines were 100% effective or safe. After all, they do not fight the virus themselves but simply provide experience of the virus for the immune system and everyone's immune system is different. | |||
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"If you use the term anti-vaxxer consider the possibility that rather that being on the high ground, you're in the quick sand, slowly sinking with facts that show the Vax is neither as safe or efficacious as you were promised back in January." We don't have 1 vaccine in use here and the results of the several vaccines were published and submitted to the MHRA at different points in the last year. Research phase 3 Trial results are never promises or guarantees but the real world experience has shown near identical results to those of the trials, as you will have seen from reading the published evidence in the credible literature. Very effective and safe, especially when compared to the damage and dangers of the virus. | |||
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"With the exception of a medical exemption I see no valid reason for anyone to refuse vaccination, why would you do that ? This virus is going to continue to kill unless we take action to prevent it from doing so, antivaxers are just another group of conspiracy theory nutters, only in their case unlike the flat earthers or moon landing deniers they're actually doing some measurable harm, so my reply is yes... make vaccination mandatory, either using legislation or by making sure a normal life is not possible unless you're vaccinated. If there is the slightest chance a vaccine can cause an adverse reaction and impact someones health then yes, there's plenty of reason to refuse. My body, my choice and that choice should come without coercion of any kind The attitude of some so quick to exclude others from society absolutely disgusts me. Especially when you can still catch and transmit the exact same virus as these people you'd happily discard. there's an element of risk with every form of medication from covid vaccine to aspirin, however the benefits of vaccination easily outweigh the risk, your "my body my choice" statement is fine... as long as should you end up in hospital with covid you pay your medical bills, your "my body my choice" statement is fine provided you never influence another person into not getting themselves vaccinated, if you did ever influence someone into not being vaccinated & then that person gets civid & dies I say YOU should be held.. at least in part, accountable for their death, I believe the good of the many outweighs the good of the few to be an axiom, if vaccination became mandatory & as a result a small number reacted badly to it & died but hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives were saved then I say its worth it, just my opinion you understand, I see in the news hospitals are already creaking under the strain of covid patients, the vast majority unvaccinated, so I say yes, charge them for their care & vaccinate them while they're in hospital whether they like it or not. What difference does it make if a vaxxed/unvaxxed person cause someone else's death? I'm sure it'll be of no comfort to them that the person who infected them had their jabs. As for influencing people, its little of my concern whether any tom, dick or harry gets jabbed. I'd advise everyone to do what I did, look at the pros and cons, then decide for yourself. I got my first two after I had COVID, I won't be getting the booster As for forcefully giving the jabs to those already in hospital? Where do we stop with forced medical procedures? When you get to 65, can't work any more. Shall we euthanize you and harvest what parts are still viable to be donated to a productive member of society? Why stop at forced injections, can't afford to raise you kids, let's sterilise you, lets just start culling the weak and inferior.... oh wait we're heading down the nazi route "Not really, long before the 1930's humans knew how to collectively protect themselves. Quarantine is word that has been in use for hundreds of years. Look back and see how protection was organised and how quarantined worked back then. | |||
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