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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions." Very much like the 1st UK lock down. They are spot checking people out on the street, if your not any of genuinely within a travel radius of your local supermarket to your home, travelling to work which can be confirmed by your employer (like the 1st UK lockdown some employers are issuing official letters stating expected shift / travel times and role within the company to unvaxxed staff, I had one of these last year which was checked by police a couple of times without issue last year). If you can't prove essential travel to work, travel to your local supermarket and your unvaxxed then your fined. Pretty much the same as previous lockdowns here and in Europe the difference this time is if your vaccinated it doesn't apply. KJ | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions." 
This is very bad. | |||
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"Seems fair to us." | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions. Very much like the 1st UK lock down. They are spot checking people out on the street, if your not any of genuinely within a travel radius of your local supermarket to your home, travelling to work which can be confirmed by your employer (like the 1st UK lockdown some employers are issuing official letters stating expected shift / travel times and role within the company to unvaxxed staff, I had one of these last year which was checked by police a couple of times without issue last year). If you can't prove essential travel to work, travel to your local supermarket and your unvaxxed then your fined. Pretty much the same as previous lockdowns here and in Europe the difference this time is if your vaccinated it doesn't apply. KJ" I am assuming then that the Austrian police have solved all the serious and dangerous crime in the country if they have the time to be spot checking people in the street. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews'" It’s nothing like that! A ridiculous statement. In previous years where the flu season was particularly bad my work place would actively tell people to stay at home until they were feeling better - large open plan offices and public transport meant the flu virus was having a field day. It didn’t mean we were treating people unfairly. “It’s only the Jews” - that’s a horrible statement. | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions. Very much like the 1st UK lock down. They are spot checking people out on the street, if your not any of genuinely within a travel radius of your local supermarket to your home, travelling to work which can be confirmed by your employer (like the 1st UK lockdown some employers are issuing official letters stating expected shift / travel times and role within the company to unvaxxed staff, I had one of these last year which was checked by police a couple of times without issue last year). If you can't prove essential travel to work, travel to your local supermarket and your unvaxxed then your fined. Pretty much the same as previous lockdowns here and in Europe the difference this time is if your vaccinated it doesn't apply. KJ I am assuming then that the Austrian police have solved all the serious and dangerous crime in the country if they have the time to be spot checking people in the street." I don’t think the Austrians give a toss what you think and that’s a silly statement. | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions." It should be pretty easy to enforce with the EU Green Pass. I'm actually fine with it, your right to spread infectious disease stops at your front door. | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions. Very much like the 1st UK lock down. They are spot checking people out on the street, if your not any of genuinely within a travel radius of your local supermarket to your home, travelling to work which can be confirmed by your employer (like the 1st UK lockdown some employers are issuing official letters stating expected shift / travel times and role within the company to unvaxxed staff, I had one of these last year which was checked by police a couple of times without issue last year). If you can't prove essential travel to work, travel to your local supermarket and your unvaxxed then your fined. Pretty much the same as previous lockdowns here and in Europe the difference this time is if your vaccinated it doesn't apply. KJ I am assuming then that the Austrian police have solved all the serious and dangerous crime in the country if they have the time to be spot checking people in the street. I don’t think the Austrians give a toss what you think and that’s a silly statement. " It's a deliberately silly statement to match a silly policy. Yes, people (Vax and in Vax) should stay home if they have symptoms or been in contact with someone carrying the virus. But as has been established being vaccinated does not stop one from spreading it and given that the effectiveness of vaccine only lasts for about half a year I really only see more drawbacks than positives to creating and encouraging a two tier society. | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions. Very much like the 1st UK lock down. They are spot checking people out on the street, if your not any of genuinely within a travel radius of your local supermarket to your home, travelling to work which can be confirmed by your employer (like the 1st UK lockdown some employers are issuing official letters stating expected shift / travel times and role within the company to unvaxxed staff, I had one of these last year which was checked by police a couple of times without issue last year). If you can't prove essential travel to work, travel to your local supermarket and your unvaxxed then your fined. Pretty much the same as previous lockdowns here and in Europe the difference this time is if your vaccinated it doesn't apply. KJ I am assuming then that the Austrian police have solved all the serious and dangerous crime in the country if they have the time to be spot checking people in the street. I don’t think the Austrians give a toss what you think and that’s a silly statement. It's a deliberately silly statement to match a silly policy. Yes, people (Vax and in Vax) should stay home if they have symptoms or been in contact with someone carrying the virus. But as has been established being vaccinated does not stop one from spreading it and given that the effectiveness of vaccine only lasts for about half a year I really only see more drawbacks than positives to creating and encouraging a two tier society. " | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy " You do realise that whilst those vaccinated can still pass on covid the chance of then doing this is drastically lower than compared with the transmission potential of the unvaxxed. Its this data that's driving these policies. Singapore has now said from December the unvaxxed will have to pay all their covid related medical costs. Which if it involves a trip to icu or similar could set you back approx £18000. KJ | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews'" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. " It's exactly like the nazis. The nazis blamed the Jews for spreading Typhus to help justify segregating off from the rest of society and the mindless public believed it then just like all you lot here who never think about natural immunity. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. " They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. It's exactly like the nazis. The nazis blamed the Jews for spreading Typhus to help justify segregating off from the rest of society and the mindless public believed it then just like all you lot here who never think about natural immunity." Not quite the same. Non vaxxers are self selective. I'm still working through my position on this but while part fo me is uncomfortable, I can see an argument to say if noone did anything, hospitals would be sunk. Each person is being asked how to help here ... Get vaxxed or stay at home. Of course, its a broad brush approach given age related risks. But "segregation" by age feels a more slippery slope so that's the cost. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter " Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. It's exactly like the nazis. The nazis blamed the Jews for spreading Typhus to help justify segregating off from the rest of society and the mindless public believed it then just like all you lot here who never think about natural immunity. Not quite the same. Non vaxxers are self selective. I'm still working through my position on this but while part fo me is uncomfortable, I can see an argument to say if noone did anything, hospitals would be sunk. Each person is being asked how to help here ... Get vaxxed or stay at home. Of course, its a broad brush approach given age related risks. But "segregation" by age feels a more slippery slope so that's the cost. " The Jews weren't responsible for Typhus and the unvaccinated aren't responsible for covid. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter " The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. " Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste." Maybe pick up a history book and learn the process they went through, which took over a decade. In 2019 it was inconceivable that the government would place healthy people under house arrest, collapse the economy and fire workers who refuse a vaccine, but here we are with most of you cheering them every step of the way. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste." While it’s incredibly unlikely that we’ll see the return of gas chambers it certainly seems plausible that we aren’t too far away from the total removal of certain people from society. Unvaccinated Austrians banned from everywhere except shops and work, so the next step is ban them from shops and work. Won’t be difficult to implement if the current restrictions are supported enough. Another country but another example; quarantine camps in Australia for international travellers also have the capacity to be used for total ostracisation should the government decide that’s what they want to do. Like I said, the exterminations came last. It’s seems unlikely that history will repeat itself to that extent but you never know. Either way, won’t bother you will it? It’s just the unvaccinated. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy " I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste. Maybe pick up a history book and learn the process they went through, which took over a decade. In 2019 it was inconceivable that the government would place healthy people under house arrest, collapse the economy and fire workers who refuse a vaccine, but here we are with most of you cheering them every step of the way. " A lot on the forums of Fab but not in real life , most people are now waking up to what you said just does not seem like it on Fabs virus forum | |||
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"It was said to me by an unvaccinated man "Why should I suffer for the likes of you?" My reply now is "Why should I suffer for the likes of you! I don't see why as a tax payer, I should have to meet their health care costs because they have chosen not to take it. Their right. But my equal right to protect me and not foot the bill for others! I prefer to follow prof medical advise. Not google doctors, or those who will not take the vaccine, but will fill their faces with enough Botox to give them fish lips. I don't think unvaccinated should be allow to travel abroad at all. The unvaccinated say that there is some underhanded plan? Well, if I die as a result of this protection, I am glad I will not be left with the selfish, arrogant people who will be left. Like the vile man who I have helped when he needed it, for him to turn round and say such a thing to me. What a nasty selfish place this world would turn into" Anyone could make the same arguments against smokers, obese people and alcoholics  | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste." He’s suggesting that in very small stages it’s easy for the government to persuade some people that disgusting vile actions, like segregation, are ok. 2 years ago people would have been horrified. Now some are cheering it on. Gross. Rewind a few months and vaccine passports were justified by some people by saying “you’re hardly going to be banned from going out, it’s just nightclubs”. Now the next stage comes in Austria. Boil the frog slowly…… Ask yourself this, where will we be in another 18 months….. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. " No one called you anti Semitic. But you’re pro segregation which is pretty darn gross. | |||
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"Anyone could make the same arguments against smokers, obese people and alcoholics The difference is they are only going to kill themselves NOT me "Why? Doesn't your vaccine work? | |||
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"And Singapore have introduced no vaccine? Then pay for your own healthcare " We do pay for our healthcare through our taxation system | |||
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"Anyone could make the same arguments against smokers, obese people and alcoholics The difference is they are only going to kill themselves NOT me "The vaccine protects you after you have had it what is your risk ? | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. " Really? Is that what you took from that?! | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?! "There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible. Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered. | |||
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"Anyone could make the same arguments against smokers, obese people and alcoholics The difference is they are only going to kill themselves NOT me "But your vaccine is preventing that, no? Whether you catch it or not? | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?!
There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible.
Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered."Noam Chomsky argued against sending food to the segregated... | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. " I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. " Not if they have natural immunity. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?!
There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible.
Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered.
Noam Chomsky argued against sending food to the segregated..."Indeed, that’ll be 6 months later. It really is frightening seeing how easily this divide and conquer has worked, the way people are so easily led to turn on others and gleefully revel in segregation. They think they’re the winners in society, age are doing the “right” thing. Imagine how much it’ll blow their mind when the government coerce something else on them that they dont want to do…. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?!
There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible.
Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered.
Noam Chomsky argued against sending food to the segregated...
Indeed, that’ll be 6 months later.
It really is frightening seeing how easily this divide and conquer has worked, the way people are so easily led to turn on others and gleefully revel in segregation. They think they’re the winners in society, age are doing the “right” thing. Imagine how much it’ll blow their mind when the government coerce something else on them that they dont want to do…. "i saw similar other worrying things off the back of brexit. | |||
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"I think it's a 10 day programme. Their government will likely review how it affects vaccination rates. " Yes, it was just a few weeks to flatten the curve… then vaccinate the vulnerable…. Then all adults… then kids…. Then ban non vax from nightclubs in some places…. Then…..??? If you can’t see the bigger picture and direction of travel yet, there’s no hope. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity." Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?!
There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible.
Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered.
Noam Chomsky argued against sending food to the segregated...
Indeed, that’ll be 6 months later.
It really is frightening seeing how easily this divide and conquer has worked, the way people are so easily led to turn on others and gleefully revel in segregation. They think they’re the winners in society, age are doing the “right” thing. Imagine how much it’ll blow their mind when the government coerce something else on them that they dont want to do…. i saw similar other worrying things off the back of brexit.
"Indeed. The only thing is brexit didn’t actually ban/segregate people in the same way. But it did divide. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy " exactly. | |||
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"I think it's a 10 day programme. Their government will likely review how it affects vaccination rates. Yes, it was just a few weeks to flatten the curve… then vaccinate the vulnerable…. Then all adults… then kids…. Then ban non vax from nightclubs in some places…. Then…..??? If you can’t see the bigger picture and direction of travel yet, there’s no hope." Likewise. Citizens elect these people to manage their society, so we all have to keep observing and take appropriate action. The passports have been used in several places, including the UK, so there's evidence now upon them and other mitigations that could help health services cope better. | |||
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"I think it's a 10 day programme. Their government will likely review how it affects vaccination rates. Yes, it was just a few weeks to flatten the curve… then vaccinate the vulnerable…. Then all adults… then kids…. Then ban non vax from nightclubs in some places…. Then…..??? If you can’t see the bigger picture and direction of travel yet, there’s no hope. Likewise. Citizens elect these people to manage their society, so we all have to keep observing and take appropriate action. The passports have been used in several places, including the UK, so there's evidence now upon them and other mitigations that could help health services cope better. " There’s zero evidence they work. Germany brought them in and cases rocketed (I’m not saying that’s the cause, but they don’t work). Ireland too. Scotland has no evidence that they work. Nor Wales. Yet still some call for them. Just think how far we’ll be down this road in another year or two….. | |||
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"Remember when people likened Covid passports to carry out day to day life was a conspiracy theory Well, 'show us your papers' is here and as seen above some people are fine with it 'Seems fair to us' sound's an awful lot like 'its only the Jews' How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. Really? Is that what you took from that?!
There’s no hope for some now. They actually think segregating society is the virtuous position. It’s incredible.
Imagine what they’ll be calling for in another 18 months… they’ll probably want unvaccinated locked in their house with only basic food parcels delivered.
Noam Chomsky argued against sending food to the segregated...
Indeed, that’ll be 6 months later.
It really is frightening seeing how easily this divide and conquer has worked, the way people are so easily led to turn on others and gleefully revel in segregation. They think they’re the winners in society, age are doing the “right” thing. Imagine how much it’ll blow their mind when the government coerce something else on them that they dont want to do…. i saw similar other worrying things off the back of brexit.
Indeed. The only thing is brexit didn’t actually ban/segregate people in the same way. But it did divide."prorogation attempts and henry viii was a thin end of a thicker egde imo. Especially if the judicial system is in the crosshairs. It's off topic, but I share a fear bad things can be done in the name of good intentions. I'm not sure where I am with this case... Partly because I haven't seen what the alternatives are. If one rule fits all, you quickly get to everyone back into lockdown. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. " No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. " Really? State your source please. | |||
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"Ironic (or not) that the country that birthed history's most notorious dictator is the first to implement this measure worldwide..." Indeed! | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. " Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this." Minor side effects are a normal sign that the immune system is mounting a protective response following vaccination, although they aren’t universal. 24 February 2021 – by Linda Geddes Tens of millions of people have already been vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2, and in the coming months, hundreds of millions more will follow. Many of them will experience minor adverse reactions in the hours and days after receiving each dose, such as a sore arm, mild fever, headache or fatigue. Such reactions are not only normal, usually appearing within a day or so of vaccination and disappear soon afterwards, but they may also be a sign that the vaccine is working – although you shouldn’t be alarmed if you don’t experience any adverse reactions. They may also be more common if you’ve already recovered from COVID-19 because your immune system is primed to respond to the virus – including harmless fragments of it or instructions for them, contained within vaccines. They are nothing to be alarmed by, and merely show that the body remembers the virus and is mounting an effective response to it. Vaccines teach the immune system to recognise and respond to a pathogen by introducing a disabled form of the virus, viral proteins or genetic instructions for making these proteins, into the body, so that the next time you encounter that pathogen, your body rapidly fights it off. This "training" process triggers some of the same immune reactions as encountering the real thing: immunological "first responder" cells release chemical messages that summon other immune cells to the injection site, as well as making the blood vessels in that area a little "leakier", to help those immune cells get to where they need to be. These immune cells then begin to mount an "adaptive" immune response, involving antibody-producing B cells and immune T cells, which destroy virus-infected cells. Together, these reactions can trigger some of the same symptoms you experience when you’re fighting off a real infection, such as fever, chills, tiredness, swollen lymph glands – as well as redness, swelling and stiffness at the injection site. The next time you encounter the pathogen, these responses will kick in faster and stronger, because your immune system is already primed to recognise and respond to it. This is why people who have already recovered from COVID-19 may experience more of these mild reactions. They are nothing to be alarmed by, and merely show that the body remembers the virus and is mounting an effective response to it. This is similar to receiving a second dose of the vaccine; in both cases, your body was already primed to recognise the antigen either by prior infection or the first dose. Indeed, two small studies recently suggested that people who’ve previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2 might only need a single dose of an mRNA vaccine, as they begin producing large amounts of antibodies against the virus following their first dose – although follow-up studies are needed to confirm that these immune responses were maintained over time. How safe are COVID-19 vaccines? One of the studies also compared the frequency of adverse reactions after the first dose of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine in 231 people who had either previously tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, or never been exposed to it. It found that symptoms such as pain or swelling at the injection site were similar in both groups of patients, but whole-body reactions, such as fatigue, headache, chills, fever, and muscle or joint pains, were more frequently reported by those who had recovered from COVID-19. This fits with data from the ZOE COVID Symptom Study, which encourages participants to log their daily symptoms via a smartphone app, and has more than four million contributors globally. It found that people who have had a previous COVID-19 infection were almost twice as likely to experience one or more mild, whole-body reactions from a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, compared to those who hadn't previously tested positive. The most common symptoms they reported were fatigue (9%), headache (8%) and chills or shivers (4%), mostly during the first two days after receiving the vaccine. However, approximately a third of those who had previously had COVID-19 reported at least one mild, whole-body reaction within seven days, compared to 19% of those who hadn’t previously had COVID-19. People aged under 55 were more likely to experience such symptoms, and they were also more common when people received their second dose of vaccine. In most cases, these mild side effects were short-lived, with just 3% of people experiencing them beyond three days. Educational | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste. Maybe pick up a history book and learn the process they went through, which took over a decade. In 2019 it was inconceivable that the government would place healthy people under house arrest, collapse the economy and fire workers who refuse a vaccine, but here we are with most of you cheering them every step of the way. " Now you are talking bollocks. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste. Maybe pick up a history book and learn the process they went through, which took over a decade. In 2019 it was inconceivable that the government would place healthy people under house arrest, collapse the economy and fire workers who refuse a vaccine, but here we are with most of you cheering them every step of the way. Now you are talking bollocks." Nope, he’s right. They’re boiling the frog slowly. People are ok with things that would have disgusted them 2 years ago. Look at the overall pattern. A few weeks to flatten the curve. Now 18 months later we’re sacking people for not taking a vax, segregating then from society, and many are ok with this. Austria is the biggest segregation yet. Ask yourself where we’ll be in another 18 months. How far are you prepared to go? This is a direction of travel that has no signs of stopping. Just a few weeks to flatten the curve….. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. " If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in?" Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. " No it’s not flawed. Read what he wrote again. Smokers and drinkers and obese people increase pressure on the nhs and ICU. It’s in a different way to covid, but their choices DO increase pressure on the nhs. | |||
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"Seems fair to us." Pathetic | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. No it’s not flawed. Read what he wrote again. Smokers and drinkers and obese people increase pressure on the nhs and ICU. It’s in a different way to covid, but their choices DO increase pressure on the nhs." Agree and once you go down that road where does it end ? | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this." What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses?" It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. " Not in younger age groups/children…. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. No it’s not flawed. Read what he wrote again. Smokers and drinkers and obese people increase pressure on the nhs and ICU. It’s in a different way to covid, but their choices DO increase pressure on the nhs. Agree and once you go down that road where does it end ? " Exactly. But some can’t see the bigger picture… | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy " | |||
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"Seems fair to us. Pathetic " | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. No it’s not flawed. Read what he wrote again. Smokers and drinkers and obese people increase pressure on the nhs and ICU. It’s in a different way to covid, but their choices DO increase pressure on the nhs." Nope, travelling on a bus with an obese person doesn't increase anyone's risk of going to hospital due to obesity related issues. Getting on a bus with a highly contagious Covid positive person however... | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. Not in younger age groups/children…." Wrong the rate is a lot closer at least in children over 5 but covid has the higher rate of myocarditis, which in most cases covid vaccine or natural isn't fatal. Very very young children have a higher chance of natural myocarditis. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Since neither of those things are contagious, your logic is flawed. No it’s not flawed. Read what he wrote again. Smokers and drinkers and obese people increase pressure on the nhs and ICU. It’s in a different way to covid, but their choices DO increase pressure on the nhs. Nope, travelling on a bus with an obese person doesn't increase anyone's risk of going to hospital due to obesity related issues. Getting on a bus with a highly contagious Covid positive person however..." That’s not the point he was making! Read it again. The point he made is if we’re arguing about pressure on NHS/ICU as a factor. Over eating increases the risk of taking up bed space. So do we stop fat people buying more cakes? And since you mention getting on a bus with a covid positive person, locking down healthy non vaxed and allowing out vaxed people with covid is not exactly scientific. Plus it’s segregation and it’s vile, but done are too far gone to see this. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. Not in younger age groups/children…. Wrong the rate is a lot closer at least in children over 5 but covid has the higher rate of myocarditis, which in most cases covid vaccine or natural isn't fatal. Very very young children have a higher chance of natural myocarditis. " Wrong. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/ | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. " Pfizer, males you can pick whatever ages you have data for | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. Not in younger age groups/children…. Wrong the rate is a lot closer at least in children over 5 but covid has the higher rate of myocarditis, which in most cases covid vaccine or natural isn't fatal. Very very young children have a higher chance of natural myocarditis. Wrong. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/" It's behind a paywall. Read the recent new York times article on this. Explains the risk of heart damage of vaccines compared to covid. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in?" “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. | |||
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"Will it push some to get a vaccine? I think that's part of the desire behind this. Some countries are now in a perilous state, with hospitals close to capacity, in large part due to the unvaccinated getting - avoidably - very ill. If they get vaccinated, they can each potentially prevent their death this winter Think you are right , why don’t that just say this ? get vaccinated because hospitals can’t cope as they are at full capacity , they usually are every winter The hospitals are full of fully vaccinated covid patients. Austrias vaccination rate isn't much lower than ours. 64% vs 68%. I think it's higher levels of people not vaccinated in some areas that are causing significant issues, above and beyond the overall level. Those who are not vaccinated will typically require greater levels of hospital care as well as die. If more vaccinate now, it could help the health services cope much better during their toughest part of the year. Not if they have natural immunity. Any effective immunity is better than none but it's still better to have vaccines at the right time, to ensure that the strength of the developed immunity is as good as possible. No it isn't. A person with natural immunity is more likely to end up in hospital with a vaccine side effect than covid second time round. Thats increasing the problem, not reducing it. Any evidence for this? As I can find zero evidence for this. What's the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine per 100,000 doses? It's different for different vaccines and different for different ages and sexes. Myocarditis rate is a lot higher in covid patients than from any vaccine. Not in younger age groups/children…. Wrong the rate is a lot closer at least in children over 5 but covid has the higher rate of myocarditis, which in most cases covid vaccine or natural isn't fatal. Very very young children have a higher chance of natural myocarditis. Wrong. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/ It's behind a paywall. Read the recent new York times article on this. Explains the risk of heart damage of vaccines compared to covid." So you believe one article and not the other. Ok. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting." Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross." Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea." So the ends justify the means? | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea." Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation?" Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today." You’re right. I’ve asked this question many times about how far people who are in favour of this coercion are prepared to go. I tend not to get an answer. It’s because they are so weak minded and incapable of critical thought and seeing the bigger picture, that they have to wait for such a restriction (eh austria) to come in, then they support it and give various justifications. However, deep down I believe it’s hard for them to be pro active in saying how far they’d go… they feel safer waiting for someone else to do it (in this case Austria), then support it with the usual justifications. So, can anyone who is in favour of this, tell me how far you’d go to punish people for not wanting a vaccine? I guarantee you torture would improve vaccine take up. So is that ok? I guarantee you forcing people to stay in 24/7 will improve vax take up? Is that ok? Come on, how far would the people segregation authoritarians go? | |||
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"You are all having a laugh surely? Witches, human rights? Just add 5G and we are away." You’re totally missing the point!! How far would you go? Read my post above? If the ends justify the means, how far are you prepared to go to force people to take vaccines? | |||
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"Covid: Austria introduces lockdown for unvaccinated It looks like the 1st country to implement a lock down specifically for the unvaxx only has gone ahead and done it today. "Unvaccinated people will only be permitted to leave home for limited reasons, like working or buying food." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59283128 If this actually makes a difference (to the countries rates of hospitalizations and deaths) will other countries like Russia who have very low vax take up possibly follow suit? KJ " It won't make a difference, and it's totally unreasonable to exclude people from everyday life on this basis | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today." If you are so concerned about civil liberties and freedom of choice, what about all those people that used to drive to the pub have a skinful then drive home, but can't anymore because of drink drive laws. Perhaps we should abolish those laws so people can choose to risk the lives of others with their selfish attitude. | |||
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"You are all having a laugh surely? Witches, human rights? Just add 5G and we are away." And this is why. You all think you're so enlightened by the science today but you act exactly the same as the people 300 years ago. Actually Winston Churchill was deeply concerned about this phenomenon in his day since science was advancing (i.e. nuclear weapons) but morality wasn't. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today. If you are so concerned about civil liberties and freedom of choice, what about all those people that used to drive to the pub have a skinful then drive home, but can't anymore because of drink drive laws. Perhaps we should abolish those laws so people can choose to risk the lives of others with their selfish attitude." You're more dangerous to an unvaccinated person without natural immunity than they are to you | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today." What next !!! the ducking stool.  You will take the vax gurgle gurgle you gonna take it now you anti vaxer gurgle gurgle NO you got deli rium. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Yes a reasonable proportion of the population are ok with segregation. They’re maniacs. Give it a year or two they’ll be ok going a few steps further…. How about only allowing basic food and 5 minutes a day outside the house? Vax take up still not enough…. What’s next then? Hold people down and torture them til they have it? How far are the pro segregation maniacs actually prepared to go? I’d love to know. Just how much are you prepared to punish people to force them into something they don’t want? How far is acceptable to those nutters in favour of this vile segregation? Simple answer, the hysteria that burnt witches is alive, well nd present today. If you are so concerned about civil liberties and freedom of choice, what about all those people that used to drive to the pub have a skinful then drive home, but can't anymore because of drink drive laws. Perhaps we should abolish those laws so people can choose to risk the lives of others with their selfish attitude." Not being forced into a vaccine is not the same as being able to drink and drive! That is the most pathetic comparison I’ve ever heard. | |||
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"You are all having a laugh surely? Witches, human rights? Just add 5G and we are away. You’re totally missing the point!! How far would you go? Read my post above? If the ends justify the means, how far are you prepared to go to force people to take vaccines?" Im not missing any point. Many people have already given away massive amounts of information freely without batting an eyelid. All they have done as far as I know is to ask unvaccinated people to lockdown. So what? | |||
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"You are all having a laugh surely? Witches, human rights? Just add 5G and we are away. And this is why. You all think you're so enlightened by the science today but you act exactly the same as the people 300 years ago. Actually Winston Churchill was deeply concerned about this phenomenon in his day since science was advancing (i.e. nuclear weapons) but morality wasn't. " Spot on. | |||
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"You are all having a laugh surely? Witches, human rights? Just add 5G and we are away. You’re totally missing the point!! How far would you go? Read my post above? If the ends justify the means, how far are you prepared to go to force people to take vaccines? Im not missing any point. Many people have already given away massive amounts of information freely without batting an eyelid. All they have done as far as I know is to ask unvaccinated people to lockdown. So what?" Lol, segregating society… is that all? Yep, just run of the mill stuff! Jeez! Abc they haven’t asked. They’ve forced, with the threat of a huge fine. Papers please! So, how far would you go to force those who don’t want this vaccine? You’re ok with locking them down I presume. So, say this doesn’t improve things, how far would you go to further punish/coerce? | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea." Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? " Realization that it’s all a scam …..  | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?" m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce? | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? " Then we will know the truth, it really is an alien plot to wipe out mankind and take over the planet. I know this is the truth because I read it on the Internet! | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? " could happen as vaccines are a play to allow more case without increasing hospital cases at the same rate. But if hospital rates still go up, then full lock down. What will be interesting is to see if the speed changes. If all metrics go up at teh same rate then anti lockdown ppl ahve some great data. If unvaxx hospital rates go down, loxkdowwn peeps have data to show power of lock down ... | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in?" Sorry to burst your bubble on the two categories - smokers and overweight people. Firstly the smokers - they haven’t shown up as a group more likely to catch covid. Taking this a step further whilst being a group that were identified as being the ones to be bumped from treatment and access to essential medical equipment needed for the very sick covid patients, this was never triggered - which I think was a bit of a shock to the medical profession. There is some conjecture that smokers do not easily catch covid. The overweight - this only becomes a problem when associated with other illnesses such as asthma, diabetes, old age or other debilitating illnesses. It’s very well documented that if you are in any of the long term illness categories then covid will put your life at risk. I think government policies on restrictions will target the stupid and conspiracy theory groups much quicker! | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Sorry to burst your bubble on the two categories - smokers and overweight people. Firstly the smokers - they haven’t shown up as a group more likely to catch covid. Taking this a step further whilst being a group that were identified as being the ones to be bumped from treatment and access to essential medical equipment needed for the very sick covid patients, this was never triggered - which I think was a bit of a shock to the medical profession. There is some conjecture that smokers do not easily catch covid. The overweight - this only becomes a problem when associated with other illnesses such as asthma, diabetes, old age or other debilitating illnesses. It’s very well documented that if you are in any of the long term illness categories then covid will put your life at risk. I think government policies on restrictions will target the stupid and conspiracy theory groups much quicker! " Congratulations on totally missing the point made. | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. " The first to land in the Umerziehungslager ( later called KZ's ) were Socialist and Communists starting in 1933; by 1936 many of these different thinkers were either dead ( Pneumonia, TB, beatings with rubber hoses ). My relatives till today do not know where my great uncles where buried ( dumped ). The official notice was death by TB. What many do not know that 8 in 10 KZ's were run by Austrian citizens. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? Sorry to burst your bubble on the two categories - smokers and overweight people. Firstly the smokers - they haven’t shown up as a group more likely to catch covid. Taking this a step further whilst being a group that were identified as being the ones to be bumped from treatment and access to essential medical equipment needed for the very sick covid patients, this was never triggered - which I think was a bit of a shock to the medical profession. There is some conjecture that smokers do not easily catch covid. The overweight - this only becomes a problem when associated with other illnesses such as asthma, diabetes, old age or other debilitating illnesses. It’s very well documented that if you are in any of the long term illness categories then covid will put your life at risk. I think government policies on restrictions will target the stupid and conspiracy theory groups much quicker! " What alternative universe of facts do you live in? The people who have died of covid are overwhelmingly people with co-morbidities. | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce?" If I worked with the police and I found people who had been asked to isolate out and about without good reason, I'd have no problem issuing the ticket. Is that what you mean? They have asked and if people don't comply - yes fines. Same happened here?? I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? " Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce? If I worked with the police and I found people who had been asked to isolate out and about without good reason, I'd have no problem issuing the ticket. Is that what you mean? They have asked and if people don't comply - yes fines. Same happened here?? I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? " No, I mean how far are you prepared to go, ie what government measures are acceptable to you to coerce people into having a vaccine they don’t want? You’re ok with segregating society by locking down unvaccinated. So say that doesn’t work, what’s next? How far are you prepared to go? | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend" I did for the first lockdown. Once the tiers came in in September I realised where this was heading and ignored restrictions through the winter (like most people in Birmingham from what I could tell). | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce? If I worked with the police and I found people who had been asked to isolate out and about without good reason, I'd have no problem issuing the ticket. Is that what you mean? They have asked and if people don't comply - yes fines. Same happened here?? I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? No, I mean how far are you prepared to go, ie what government measures are acceptable to you to coerce people into having a vaccine they don’t want? You’re ok with segregating society by locking down unvaccinated. So say that doesn’t work, what’s next? How far are you prepared to go?" I asked a similar question about 12 months ago and was utterly appalled by the responses - people should be forcibly injected, their children moved into care, income / benefits withdrawn etc. I’m no longer seeing such comments and can only conclude that the most fervent pro-vaxers can see the dud that we were sold. Now the government have got themselves into a Catch 22 situation - they have to convince the unvaccinated the jab does work while convincing the vaccinated it doesn’t work that well and to roll up for their booster | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce? If I worked with the police and I found people who had been asked to isolate out and about without good reason, I'd have no problem issuing the ticket. Is that what you mean? They have asked and if people don't comply - yes fines. Same happened here?? I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? No, I mean how far are you prepared to go, ie what government measures are acceptable to you to coerce people into having a vaccine they don’t want? You’re ok with segregating society by locking down unvaccinated. So say that doesn’t work, what’s next? How far are you prepared to go? I asked a similar question about 12 months ago and was utterly appalled by the responses - people should be forcibly injected, their children moved into care, income / benefits withdrawn etc. I’m no longer seeing such comments and can only conclude that the most fervent pro-vaxers can see the dud that we were sold. Now the government have got themselves into a Catch 22 situation - they have to convince the unvaccinated the jab does work while convincing the vaccinated it doesn’t work that well and to roll up for their booster" ...That's the truth of it. | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next "So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it? | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next
So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it?"People I don’t know I could care less, people I know and family I do the most, simple I do whatever it takes 
At this point I don’t think people care or take it seriously anymore cause it’s still getting worse  | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next
So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it?
People I don’t know I could care less, people I know and family I do the most, simple I do whatever it takes
At this point I don’t think people care or take it seriously anymore cause it’s still getting worse "Whatever it takes? Forced vaccination? Hold them down?! | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next
So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it?"Lock em up. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. " We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet. | |||
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"My understanding is that they have asked unvaccinated to isolate. So lest see what happens and worry less about the what ifs cause you could do that all day. What if it works?m They’ve threatened huge fines. That’s not asking. How far would you go to coerce? If I worked with the police and I found people who had been asked to isolate out and about without good reason, I'd have no problem issuing the ticket. Is that what you mean? They have asked and if people don't comply - yes fines. Same happened here?? I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? No, I mean how far are you prepared to go, ie what government measures are acceptable to you to coerce people into having a vaccine they don’t want? You’re ok with segregating society by locking down unvaccinated. So say that doesn’t work, what’s next? How far are you prepared to go?" No, I wouldn't force people into taking the vaccine. Many of the unvaccinated simply need a few minutes with a doctor but I don't have the breakdown of the types of people e.g., how many are hesitant because of 5G, scared of clots, unborn babies - whatever. What is a concern is that you only need to read a few of the replies in forums like this to see how complete and utter bollocks is spread around and believed - so the doctors have an uphill struggle. | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next
So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it?
Lock em up."Take vaccine or lock them up? Wow. You’re happy with that? 4-5 million people locked up? Locked up where? You’re ok with the government forcing a vaccine on people or they’re imprisoned? You can’t see the bigger picture of what they may force on you next in this scenario? Perhaps something you don’t want to do? | |||
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"Hope it comes to the uk next
So, how far are you prepared to go to force/coerce people who don’t want it?
People I don’t know I could care less, people I know and family I do the most, simple I do whatever it takes
At this point I don’t think people care or take it seriously anymore cause it’s still getting worse "Whatever it takes?!! | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet." “……. it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society….” ——————————— I didn’t recommend for anyone to be excluded from society. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? could happen as vaccines are a play to allow more case without increasing hospital cases at the same rate. But if hospital rates still go up, then full lock down. What will be interesting is to see if the speed changes. If all metrics go up at teh same rate then anti lockdown ppl ahve some great data. If unvaxx hospital rates go down, loxkdowwn peeps have data to show power of lock down ... " Exactly if this targeted lockdown of the unvaxxed in turn (after the relevant lag) reduceds the numbers (currently the majority in Austria) of unvaxxed in ICU then it will have clearly worked. I'm that event its not a stretch to see other low vax take up countries to do the same. On the flip side if it makes no difference at all to the non vaxxed numbers in ICU then its back to the drawing board. Incidently so far the fact that Wales never dropped mask mandates and Scotlands Covid Passport has been formally enforced almost a month now (since Oct 18th) does any data show in comparison to England who did neither show that either of these policies are making a difference? They show no sign of removing them and there's talk of expanding the Scottish Covid Passport Scheme atm. Is that been driven by the data showing its working or is it because so far not made much difference? Genuinely curious. KJ | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend I did for the first lockdown. Once the tiers came in in September I realised where this was heading and ignored restrictions through the winter (like most people in Birmingham from what I could tell). " I started by following the rules until cases started coming down, from memory that was after about 6 weeks. It then became obvious the government were on a power trip and had no interest in following any science that would result in them relieving control. Actually within our group, we took precautions not to get infected and none of us did in 2020. The only thing i regret is complying for those 6 weeks because I gave them the benefit of the doubt. People were predicting what would happen since October 2019, and in hindsight it was obvious the virus was out then and governments knew. | |||
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"Wife just told me that there are reports of unvaccinated Austrians queuing up to get vaccinated. I don't know how true that is but interesting. Of course there are. Bullying and coercion and segregating people from society will bully some into it. That doesn’t make it right. It’s just authoritarianism in action. It’s gross. Yes it certainly divides opinion but I think for a reasonable proportion of the population - it is a good idea. Wonder what will happen when everyone is either vaccinated or locked down and the rates are still going up? could happen as vaccines are a play to allow more case without increasing hospital cases at the same rate. But if hospital rates still go up, then full lock down. What will be interesting is to see if the speed changes. If all metrics go up at teh same rate then anti lockdown ppl ahve some great data. If unvaxx hospital rates go down, loxkdowwn peeps have data to show power of lock down ... Exactly if this targeted lockdown of the unvaxxed in turn (after the relevant lag) reduceds the numbers (currently the majority in Austria) of unvaxxed in ICU then it will have clearly worked. I'm that event its not a stretch to see other low vax take up countries to do the same. On the flip side if it makes no difference at all to the non vaxxed numbers in ICU then its back to the drawing board. Incidently so far the fact that Wales never dropped mask mandates and Scotlands Covid Passport has been formally enforced almost a month now (since Oct 18th) does any data show in comparison to England who did neither show that either of these policies are making a difference? They show no sign of removing them and there's talk of expanding the Scottish Covid Passport Scheme atm. Is that been driven by the data showing its working or is it because so far not made much difference? Genuinely curious. KJ" Look at travellingtabby dot com, they’ll give you comparisons over the four nations on their home page, updated daily | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend I did for the first lockdown. Once the tiers came in in September I realised where this was heading and ignored restrictions through the winter (like most people in Birmingham from what I could tell). I started by following the rules until cases started coming down, from memory that was after about 6 weeks. It then became obvious the government were on a power trip and had no interest in following any science that would result in them relieving control. Actually within our group, we took precautions not to get infected and none of us did in 2020. The only thing i regret is complying for those 6 weeks because I gave them the benefit of the doubt. People were predicting what would happen since October 2019, and in hindsight it was obvious the virus was out then and governments knew. " Yes I agree the virus was probably here earlier than they say. Two people I know in the December were very ill (two weeks in bed type thing) in the December, and the mrs had the classic ‘mild version’ symptoms that same month (dry cough for a few days, loss of taste). Impossible to be sure I know, but I strongly suspect it was here in late 2019. God knows how I’ve never caught it. I too gave them the benefit of the doubt in the first lockdown. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet. “……. it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society….” ——————————— I didn’t recommend for anyone to be excluded from society. " No worries, I know you didn't and I understand the point you make. To me it seems like the Austrian measures would strip away people's rights which would in effect exclude them from fully participating in society. To me this is unacceptable in a democratic nation. | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend I did for the first lockdown. Once the tiers came in in September I realised where this was heading and ignored restrictions through the winter (like most people in Birmingham from what I could tell). I started by following the rules until cases started coming down, from memory that was after about 6 weeks. It then became obvious the government were on a power trip and had no interest in following any science that would result in them relieving control. Actually within our group, we took precautions not to get infected and none of us did in 2020. The only thing i regret is complying for those 6 weeks because I gave them the benefit of the doubt. People were predicting what would happen since October 2019, and in hindsight it was obvious the virus was out then and governments knew. Yes I agree the virus was probably here earlier than they say. Two people I know in the December were very ill (two weeks in bed type thing) in the December, and the mrs had the classic ‘mild version’ symptoms that same month (dry cough for a few days, loss of taste). Impossible to be sure I know, but I strongly suspect it was here in late 2019. God knows how I’ve never caught it. I too gave them the benefit of the doubt in the first lockdown." Trump signed an executive order to speed up the development of flu vaccines in September 2019 but I'm sure that's coincidence. Overall I think the politicians were more interested in buying moderna shares than stopping any spread. Check out how long it took a butt fuck nothing company to double its share price despite never having developed a vaccine before | |||
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" I assume you complied with the rules here in the UK last year? Mask wearing, 1 hour exercise, safe spacing when out? Yes / no? Nope and if you want to give me one of those fines then you'd better bring a friend I did for the first lockdown. Once the tiers came in in September I realised where this was heading and ignored restrictions through the winter (like most people in Birmingham from what I could tell). I started by following the rules until cases started coming down, from memory that was after about 6 weeks. It then became obvious the government were on a power trip and had no interest in following any science that would result in them relieving control. Actually within our group, we took precautions not to get infected and none of us did in 2020. The only thing i regret is complying for those 6 weeks because I gave them the benefit of the doubt. People were predicting what would happen since October 2019, and in hindsight it was obvious the virus was out then and governments knew. Yes I agree the virus was probably here earlier than they say. Two people I know in the December were very ill (two weeks in bed type thing) in the December, and the mrs had the classic ‘mild version’ symptoms that same month (dry cough for a few days, loss of taste). Impossible to be sure I know, but I strongly suspect it was here in late 2019. God knows how I’ve never caught it. I too gave them the benefit of the doubt in the first lockdown. Trump signed an executive order to speed up the development of flu vaccines in September 2019 but I'm sure that's coincidence. Overall I think the politicians were more interested in buying moderna shares than stopping any spread. Check out how long it took a butt fuck nothing company to double its share price despite never having developed a vaccine before "tbf, it's got more behind it that BTC ! | |||
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"How are they planning on checking/enforcing this? It seems a very disturbing and discriminatory policy which could only further deepen existing divisions." The filthy unvaxxed are forced into workcamps and have to wear some sort of symbol on their arm to show their status as lesser humans. Im sure some other Austrian tried similar before but I cant put my finger on who it was | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet." I think we should treat the unvaccinated in the same way as we treat smokers - deny them access to certain public areas, deny them some medical processes such as ventilators and oxygen. Hold them in disdain as a lower class who are obviously too thick to realise they are putting others at risk with their attitude | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet. I think we should treat the unvaccinated in the same way as we treat smokers - deny them access to certain public areas, deny them some medical processes such as ventilators and oxygen. Hold them in disdain as a lower class who are obviously too thick to realise they are putting others at risk with their attitude " pmsl aint you a nice openminded person | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet. I think we should treat the unvaccinated in the same way as we treat smokers - deny them access to certain public areas, deny them some medical processes such as ventilators and oxygen. Hold them in disdain as a lower class who are obviously too thick to realise they are putting others at risk with their attitude " You’d go far in North Korea. | |||
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"But the vaccinated can still transmit Covid and can still catch it , this is just bully boy tactics , so much for freedom of choice in a democracy I understand your point. However, it’s not so much about who can transmit the virus, but more to do with the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated filling up their ICU units. So by reducing the interactions of the unvaccinated, they become less likely to catch the virus and end up overwhelming the icu units. I’m not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it , just presenting the ‘rational’ behind the decision. If we are to use the argument of lessening the burden on ICU and NHS etc then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese? Is this really a direction we want to be heading in? “……… then the next logical step would be to introduce a General Health Passport and restrict the movement and freedoms of people such as smokers and obese?……” ———————————— Well, some years ago, smoking was banned in indoor public space. Why? To reduce the negative impact of passive smoking on non-smokers. So yes, some restrictions have already been imposed on smokers for Heath reasons, and those restrictions are still in force. And like said, I wasn’t arguing about whether Austria’s decision was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rationale behind their decision, ie the decision wasn’t made primarily to stop transmission, but rather to prevent the unvaccinated from filling up their ICUs. We could compare the smoking ban to the self isolation orders for those who have been in contact with a carrier. Smoking was banned indoors to lessen the effect of second hand smoke on other people's health however smokers are not excluded from society or forced to stay at home, a working solution was reached. In much the same way that we accept smoking to be unhealthy but still allow it to be legal and not exclude smokers from society we have to accept that although it may be preferable for people to be vaccinated we should not exclude from society those who do not feel safe or ready to do so as yet. I think we should treat the unvaccinated in the same way as we treat smokers - deny them access to certain public areas, deny them some medical processes such as ventilators and oxygen. Hold them in disdain as a lower class who are obviously too thick to realise they are putting others at risk with their attitude " If only you'd included obesity, alcoholics, drug users, motorcyclists and people who practice extreme sports and contact sports in that list you could of slashed the burden on NHS and hospitals right down | |||
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" How dare you accuse us of being antisemetic This is is nothing like Nazis. They didn’t gas the Jews on the first day you know. This is how it started. And people you just allowed it to happen because it didn’t negatively effect you. Are you suggesting that the government is going to exterminate the un-vaxed. If this is meant to be a joke it's not funny and in poor taste." I think she is suggesting this is the thin end of the wedge.... And who knows what is at the other end of the wedge? I doubt it is extenuating though and the comparison to the holocaust is not in the best taste, but I understand the sentiment. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? " How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? | |||
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"As others have said, this is the thin edge of the wedge. If someone had told you in 2018 that in a couple of years, healthy people would be locked down and unable to travel freely, that healthy peoples lives would be restricted and healthy people would be coerced by government into getting a vaccine, losing their jobs for declining, losing the freedom of their health autonomy - would you believe it? I wouldn’t. Some see the references to the nazi movement as offensive and unrelated but I can completely see many parallel behaviours. This for me is more frightening than the virus itself! "
The propaganda parallels are equally frightening. History does tend to repeat itself. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? " Restrictions and vaccinations are what we have to help us reduce the infection levels. There's a wealth of published research evidence to help to drive our strategies - I don't see evidence supporting lies | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? Restrictions and vaccinations are what we have to help us reduce the infection levels. There's a wealth of published research evidence to help to drive our strategies - I don't see evidence supporting lies" No they weren't. The only thing the government has done that's made a jot of difference is roll out the vaccine. | |||
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"As others have said, this is the thin edge of the wedge. If someone had told you in 2018 that in a couple of years, healthy people would be locked down and unable to travel freely, that healthy peoples lives would be restricted and healthy people would be coerced by government into getting a vaccine, losing their jobs for declining, losing the freedom of their health autonomy - would you believe it? I wouldn’t. Some see the references to the nazi movement as offensive and unrelated but I can completely see many parallel behaviours. This for me is more frightening than the virus itself! " I agree. I'm triple jabbed and have a science evidence based profession. But this is frightening. The nazis came to power 6 years before the war. They used the public to turn on minorities and a guise of all sorts. People believed everything because it was done slowly bit bit bit. I'm not saying this now.would go that way but they way the public have turned on unvsxxed and reasoned why these lockdowns are acceptable is a frightening look into how these dictatorships must of started. Its is absolutely crazy to think that a section of society in Austria legally must behave differently than another section. Yet the public reason this. Its madness in my eyes | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? Restrictions and vaccinations are what we have to help us reduce the infection levels. There's a wealth of published research evidence to help to drive our strategies - I don't see evidence supporting lies" Its the reasoning like this that public use for segregation thats frightening. Because how far do you take that? Mask wearing? Covering womans faces in public ? And to reason this with 'it protects other people' doesnt change that its the same principles applied. Applying the protecting others idea could literally be applied to anything. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? " I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it " No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. " You come across much more brainwashed by insisting that science is wrong, and that everyone who isn't vaccinated has already been infected... | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. You come across much more brainwashed by insisting that science is wrong, and that everyone who isn't vaccinated has already been infected... " Your reading comprehension fails you. Not for the first time. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. " True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. " the unvaccinated hospitalisation rate per 100k is something like 4x the vaccinated rate. So if the unvax population is more likely to have natural immunity, that suggests the power of the vaccine is more than 4x not having the vaccine all things being equal. From what I've seen no vaxx/no natural natural vaxx (especially BN which irrc wains less). I've also seen stuff that something like a third of previously infected ppl doesn't have antibodies, so having covid has natural immunity. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? " how re there so many with the vaccine in hospital. There was a students ball just outside st Andrew's at the weekend every one who was there had to be fully vaccinated but there was twenty covid cases linked to it on monday morning so its not much out off 2000 people but how many have the twenty spread it to by thinking we are all vaxed and how many more cases will be found so the covid passport sounds good but it does not stop people getting covid | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? how re there so many with the vaccine in hospital. There was a students ball just outside st Andrew's at the weekend every one who was there had to be fully vaccinated but there was twenty covid cases linked to it on monday morning so its not much out off 2000 people but how many have the twenty spread it to by thinking we are all vaxed and how many more cases will be found so the covid passport sounds good but it does not stop people getting covid " The poster above you has quoted the hospitalised rate per 100k is 4x bigger for the unvaccinated group Where are you getting the info that the vaccinated make up so much of hospital cases? | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? " OK sounding a bit more sensible now. How about, if a test showed you'd recovered from covid then that would be given equal status to having been vaccinated? Would you support that? | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. the unvaccinated hospitalisation rate per 100k is something like 4x the vaccinated rate. So if the unvax population is more likely to have natural immunity, that suggests the power of the vaccine is more than 4x not having the vaccine all things being equal. From what I've seen no vaxx/no natural natural vaxx (especially BN which irrc wains less). I've also seen stuff that something like a third of previously infected ppl doesn't have antibodies, so having covid has natural immunity. " Oh come on, read what you wrote again and spot the obvious flaw. You're smarter than that. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? OK sounding a bit more sensible now. How about, if a test showed you'd recovered from covid then that would be given equal status to having been vaccinated? Would you support that? " If we could show through the science these things Natural immunity is equal or better than vaccine A test that can accurately tell if you’ve got natural immunity Then yeah, I saw walk free. I think the issue with that would just be the cost of testing, but outside of any logistic/cost issues, I’d had no problem with that I don’t want to force the vaccine on people, I want to force a level of safety for everyone. And as far as I’m aware (I’m not an expert) the vaccine is a very reliable, cheap, easily recordable way to give someone protection. That’s why I stand with the idea of locking down unvaccinated If another method comes out to bring that protection to a person, and it’s recordable and proveable, then crack on | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. the unvaccinated hospitalisation rate per 100k is something like 4x the vaccinated rate. So if the unvax population is more likely to have natural immunity, that suggests the power of the vaccine is more than 4x not having the vaccine all things being equal. From what I've seen no vaxx/no natural natural vaxx (especially BN which irrc wains less). I've also seen stuff that something like a third of previously infected ppl doesn't have antibodies, so having covid has natural immunity. Oh come on, read what you wrote again and spot the obvious flaw. You're smarter than that. " just tell me. That's the nature of discussion. My less than signs have disappeared tho ... So one sentence doesn't work ! | |||
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" You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? OK sounding a bit more sensible now. How about, if a test showed you'd recovered from covid then that would be given equal status to having been vaccinated? Would you support that? If we could show through the science these things Natural immunity is equal or better than vaccine A test that can accurately tell if you’ve got natural immunity Then yeah, I saw walk free. I think the issue with that would just be the cost of testing, but outside of any logistic/cost issues, I’d had no problem with that I don’t want to force the vaccine on people, I want to force a level of safety for everyone. And as far as I’m aware (I’m not an expert) the vaccine is a very reliable, cheap, easily recordable way to give someone protection. That’s why I stand with the idea of locking down unvaccinated If another method comes out to bring that protection to a person, and it’s recordable and proveable, then crack on " Right well at least we understand each other now. There are 4 groups: 1. Vaccinated, previously infected 2. Unvaccinated, Previously infected 3. Vaccinated, never infected 4. Unvaccinated, never infected And that's the order of their protection. Not the order of their risk because a 12 year old #4 is still lower risk than an old #3. Personally I don't know any #1s. I know a lot of #2, I know plenty of #3s and a few #4s. The #4s need to accept they will get infected at some point, this group will disappear over time. That's why I get irritated by the #3 v #4 false dichotomy. | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. the unvaccinated hospitalisation rate per 100k is something like 4x the vaccinated rate. So if the unvax population is more likely to have natural immunity, that suggests the power of the vaccine is more than 4x not having the vaccine all things being equal. From what I've seen no vaxx/no natural natural vaxx (especially BN which irrc wains less). I've also seen stuff that something like a third of previously infected ppl doesn't have antibodies, so having covid has natural immunity. Oh come on, read what you wrote again and spot the obvious flaw. You're smarter than that. just tell me. That's the nature of discussion. My less than signs have disappeared tho ... So one sentence doesn't work !" 99% of the unvaccinated in hospital don't have natural immunity, they are infected for the first time. They are the #4s not the #2s. Oxford University have a calculator that can tell you the probability of needing hospital treatment and death based on your individual circumstances. For some people the risk of the vaccine is worse than the risk of death from covid. However, the majority of the adult population would benefit from vaccination if they don’t have natural immunity. The vast majority of kids won't. | |||
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"I'm still not sure where is stand, but my take is : Do vaccines reduce hospitalisations? Yes, looking at vaccine surveillance. Does lockdown reduce hospitalisations? Yes, based on spikes and thoughts lining up with lockdowns. Is there a point where we need to do something different than today to stop too many hospitalisations. Yes. Has vaccines helped allow us to avoid being in lockdown? Yes, based in above. Is there a risk at looking at averages and total numbers. Yes. In a world of 20 yo, vacciens wouldn't be needed to avoid lockdown. In a world of 80 yo it's probably not enough. Do we need a one size fits all approach? Not sure. But if we do, then more hospitalisations leads to everyone being locked down again. Does a 20 yo getting vaccinated make a dent in the risk to NHS? Not directly. Does an 60 yo? Yes. Could we therefore take a risk based approach? Eg unvaxxed over 40s are subject to lock down? Feels fairer, but also feels more of a thin end as.... Should other risk factors be bought into play... Race? Weight? Medical history.... Eek. Currently we are being asked to reduce our covid risk factor. It's a choice. The shittiness is that a 20y risk is much lower than a 60yo regardless. So why get so focussed on these? ... Which gets me back to an age related approach. But that also feels scarier. Like I say. Undecided. To avoid full lockdown something would need to change ... Whatever it is, likely involves some lockdown, and possibly for some groups only. At least this approach gives a choice. (However I also suspect it won't be enough and just delays the inevitable, especially as we have no real data to show what other methods really works ...) " You raise a very interesting case with targeted lockdown Age obviously, smoker? Weight? Race? Already ill/immune compromised? All these things could be used to determine who is locked down. My old argument is some can’t be controlled. Everyone chooses to be a smoker or overweight. No one chooses their age, race or health status. I think vaccinated vs unvaccinated is an easy way to split it because the risk we are factoring in is someone that is not at risk spreading it by being unvaccinated Some people can’t get the vaccine due to medical reasons. Some get it but are still at risk. Having a bunch of willingly unvaccinated people roaming the society puts them at risk. I’d imagine the unvaccinated are a great threat of variants developing too due to easier spread, but again, I’m not an expert. This is a community effort. We can’t just think about ourselves or one person. Everyone’s in thisb | |||
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"Part of me thinks that if we as a society create this vaccine that’s save and effective via the studies, and as with most vaccines the more people that take it the better, by choosing not to take it you are actively taking part in something that makes the society less safe for the rest of us Isn’t it right that we exclude you from that society? You can’t compare this to the Jews in WW2 because they weren’t actually doing anything. There was a hatred for them based on nothing If you are choosing not to participate in a safety measure the society has introduced. Why should you be part of the society? How do you think the Nazis persuaded their population to go along with persecuting the Jews? Do you think they said "well they aren't actually doing anything but let's hate them anyway"? Or do you think they made up lies about them just as the government is doing about unvaccinated people right now? I think they did lie But we aren’t lying about others not taking the vaccine. You have people openly saying they won’t take it because of spooky YouTube videos they watch, or that it’s got a chip in it. It’s the best line of defence we currently have, if you don’t wanna participate in protecting the society then be ready to be excluded from it No offence but you come across pretty brainwashed when you fail to consider that an unvaccinated person is actually pretty likely to have natural immunity. You're just playing into the false dichotomy between having some short lived protection from the vaccine and having no protection. True, but we can’t guarantee that We can guarantee you’ve had the vaccine. Should society have their safety put at risk over the chance you might have natural immunity? Or should we make it a certainty with a vaccine? how re there so many with the vaccine in hospital. There was a students ball just outside st Andrew's at the weekend every one who was there had to be fully vaccinated but there was twenty covid cases linked to it on monday morning so its not much out off 2000 people but how many have the twenty spread it to by thinking we are all vaxed and how many more cases will be found so the covid passport sounds good but it does not stop people getting covid The poster above you has quoted the hospitalised rate per 100k is 4x bigger for the unvaccinated group Where are you getting the info that the vaccinated make up so much of hospital cases? " The weekly covid surveillance report... Shows above age 40... 8362 cases admitted to hospital. Of which 1962 not vaccinated. The remainder being vaccinated. 39 and younger the percentages flip the other way around with more being unvaccinated... So 39 and under..1817 admitted to hospital of which 1351 unvaccinated. | |||
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"You come across much more brainwashed by insisting that science is wrong, and that everyone who isn't vaccinated has already been infected... ----------- Your reading comprehension fails you. Not for the first time. " It is apparent by your insistence that all of the science proving the efficacy of the vaccines is wrong (or lying), that it's no my comprehension that is lacking. Cal | |||
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