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"There are folks here asking the same questions. My doctor says its safe for kids, but where are any long term studies? " The children are now partaking in the long term study  it's a no for me, i'll wait half a decade bare minimum before even considering it.
Each to their own. | |||
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"There are folks here asking the same questions. My doctor says its safe for kids, but where are any long term studies? The children are now partaking in the long term study it's a no for me, i'll wait half a decade bare minimum before even considering it.
Each to their own. "Agreed It's beyond madness. | |||
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"Thoughts on this? " Horrendous " Im double jabbed but would have concerns with getting my 5 year old jabbed. " Good " Its fact that covid doesn't effect children severely as adults. I get that children spread it but does the vaccine stop the spread significantly enough to out weight the vaccine side effects against child covid serious illness and death?" No | |||
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"It's madness. For many years, most of us have accepted the importance of vaccinatng kids. And yet suddenly, certain people are running around screaming how kids shouldn't be vaccinated, how unsafe it is. These same people always ignore how it's far, far , far more unsafe for kids to be unvaccinated. I think we're seeing the end result of conspiracy theories and misunderstandings spread far and wide via social media." | |||
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"5 year olds do NOT need viagra " Odd comment! | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice" Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children." Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid | |||
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"Our 1 year old daughter caught it whilst at a childminders. She was severely ill and even now 6 months on is struggling with breathing. People that think covid is made up and not dangerous have never seen their child lying in a hospital bed with it. Our 14 and 12 year old sons have had their first jab. And our 10 year old wants theirs as soon as it allowed, as they wouldn’t want to risk anyone else’s little sister having the same issues. The medical advice is it’s safer to have the vaccine than not have it and We will follow the medical advice. " I am so sorry. I hope she recovers | |||
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"Our 1 year old daughter caught it whilst at a childminders. She was severely ill and even now 6 months on is struggling with breathing. People that think covid is made up and not dangerous have never seen their child lying in a hospital bed with it. Our 14 and 12 year old sons have had their first jab. And our 10 year old wants theirs as soon as it allowed, as they wouldn’t want to risk anyone else’s little sister having the same issues. The medical advice is it’s safer to have the vaccine than not have it and We will follow the medical advice. " I certainly dont think its made up. My father died of covid. My concerns were purely on parental level. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid" Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?." No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant." Interesting. So we can expect social media to start bleating about child vaccination causing uncontrollable urges to ingest metallic objects. Perhaps it was the magnetism? | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant. Interesting. So we can expect social media to start bleating about child vaccination causing uncontrollable urges to ingest metallic objects. Perhaps it was the magnetism?"  | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant." Thank you, good to know. Appreciate your input. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant. Thank you, good to know. Appreciate your input." Of course. In the adult trials, someone who had Moderna got struck by lightning, so it's a standard thing in trials | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant. Thank you, good to know. Appreciate your input. Of course. In the adult trials, someone who had Moderna got struck by lightning, so it's a standard thing in trials " Well it must of been the tin foil hat they were wearing at the time. | |||
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"Remember that the dose that the 5-11 yr olds are getting is NOT the same as adults….. Adults get a 30 microgram dose of the vaccine…. What 5-11 yr olds are getting is a 10 microgram dose of the vaccine….." Thanks _abio for that. I did hear it was a smaller dose, but not sure thats relevant for the vaccine side effects v covid side effects as its similar ratio dose for adults / children if that makes sense. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. Myocarditis in teenagers. Much lower than the risk of myocarditis caused by Covid Good to know. What about the 5-11 age group? Is it the same?. No signal seen for it in the trial yet. I can't remember the specifics of adverse events, but there weren't many. One of them included swallowing a penny (lol) - they do have to include everything, no matter how seemingly irrelevant. Thank you, good to know. Appreciate your input. Of course. In the adult trials, someone who had Moderna got struck by lightning, so it's a standard thing in trials Well it must of been the tin foil hat they were wearing at the time. " | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children." The threat from Covid to children is very real and documented, the risk from the vaccine is a rumour on social media. I guess we would have to weigh up the FACTS if we had to make that decision. | |||
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"5 year olds do NOT need viagra Odd comment!" Perhaps there's a trend https://www.thesun.ie/health/7854330/bizarre-covid-side-effect-woman-stripped-naked/ | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids..." Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. | |||
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"It's a very difficult decision obviously How would anyone feel knowing they took advice from social media rather than medical professionals and their child ended up with long term lung issues due to covid I'm glad we don't need to make that choice Or heart, blood clots linked to the vaccine. Vaccine risk v risk of covid is a completely different for adults than it is for children. The threat from Covid to children is very real and documented, the risk from the vaccine is a rumour on social media. I guess we would have to weigh up the FACTS if we had to make that decision." But they are not rumour on social media. They are documented facts that certain vaccines have caused major side effects leading to death. Blood clots ect, heart issues ect. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids..." Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids..." why ? Are you basing this on data? | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data?" Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. " 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. " Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. | |||
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"Thoughts on this? Im double jabbed but would have concerns with getting my 5 year old jabbed. Its fact that covid doesn't effect children severely as adults. I get that children spread it but does the vaccine stop the spread significantly enough to out weight the vaccine side effects against child covid serious illness and death?" I would point to 1. Long term effects of SAR1s studies And now 2. Neurological data from post-mortem on a small but significant number of Covid patients. Its the immune own response to Covid which is worrying- especially auto antibodies in many organs but particularly the brain- this is not a good thing at all for anyone of any age. They are a precursor to neuro degenerative disease later in life. Vaccines help to eliminate the virus quickly before this becomes an issue. Children do not have a voice in this pandemic and yet decision’s are being made which could affect their life outcomes- I think we should at least try to protect them better. Covid is not just an acute disease- it does have an insidious legacy | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine." it may be because other new vaccines arent made in such a rush, with such low results | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. " The 3 most common causes of death every year for this age range are in order self harm road ,traffic accidents and murder. Despite the posts of social there is no evidence of a spike in suicide,although no proper data for this year. I would suggest that with the country locked down for a lot of the year in 2020 there would be a pretty big drop in road accidents and murder. Why is has rebounded this year conpared to the 5 year average no idea but you would expect an increase compared to 2020. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine. it may be because other new vaccines arent made in such a rush, with such low results" Exactly, results... | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine. it may be because other new vaccines arent made in such a rush, with such low results" The vaccines (note the plural, there's several variations) were developed faster than usual because, for once, funding wasn't an issue. These vaccines actually have better results than a lot of others, it's just that there's an awful lot of scaremongering around covid in general. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. The 3 most common causes of death every year for this age range are in order self harm road ,traffic accidents and murder. Despite the posts of social there is no evidence of a spike in suicide,although no proper data for this year. I would suggest that with the country locked down for a lot of the year in 2020 there would be a pretty big drop in road accidents and murder. Why is has rebounded this year conpared to the 5 year average no idea but you would expect an increase compared to 2020. " I'm just telling you what the data says. To my knowledge there isn't a breakdown by age, by week and by cause. If you know of one, I'd gladly look at it. Intuitively you would have expected less car crashes during lockdown - yes. But the data doesn't show that having much effect on the actual deaths, the big drop is the summer. That age bracket is still an outlier in terms of it's difference compared to 2020 and the 5 year average, especially for boys who we know are more likely to have negative consequences from the vaccine. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. " can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? | |||
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"Remember that the dose that the 5-11 yr olds are getting is NOT the same as adults….. Adults get a 30 microgram dose of the vaccine…. What 5-11 yr olds are getting is a 10 microgram dose of the vaccine….. Thanks _abio for that. I did hear it was a smaller dose, but not sure thats relevant for the vaccine side effects v covid side effects as its similar ratio dose for adults / children if that makes sense." But in effect it is … for example they do medicine that is specifically designed for children (benolyn being a classic example) where the dosage in them is much lower…. Is there really any difference between a Children medicine and a children vaccine | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ?" I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today 
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there | |||
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"There are folks here asking the same questions. My doctor says its safe for kids, but where are any long term studies? The children are now partaking in the long term study it's a no for me, i'll wait half a decade bare minimum before even considering it.
Each to their own. "Fear of long term affects misunderstands the way the MRNA Covid vaccines work. All they do is deliver messages to our own body's immune system on how to create the antibodies and T-cells needed to fight Covid. It's completely different to previous vaccines types, which are traditionally dead or weakened actual viruses. Our own bodies do the work. The vaccines just give them the instructions. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine. it may be because other new vaccines arent made in such a rush, with such low results The vaccines (note the plural, there's several variations) were developed faster than usual because, for once, funding wasn't an issue. These vaccines actually have better results than a lot of others, it's just that there's an awful lot of scaremongering around covid in general. " Totally true that both the funding was there and the urgency and reason for a global group of scientists to collaborate, and because the cost of not funding it was way higher economically. But also the research on MRNA approaches has been underway for many years before, then suddenly there was a live environment for the technology to be applied, so the underpinning research and development had been going on for years - Covid just created an opportunity for that research to be applied to a real virus. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there"Gov link are fine | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. The 3 most common causes of death every year for this age range are in order self harm road ,traffic accidents and murder. Despite the posts of social there is no evidence of a spike in suicide,although no proper data for this year. I would suggest that with the country locked down for a lot of the year in 2020 there would be a pretty big drop in road accidents and murder. Why is has rebounded this year conpared to the 5 year average no idea but you would expect an increase compared to 2020. I'm just telling you what the data says. To my knowledge there isn't a breakdown by age, by week and by cause. If you know of one, I'd gladly look at it. Intuitively you would have expected less car crashes during lockdown - yes. But the data doesn't show that having much effect on the actual deaths, the big drop is the summer. That age bracket is still an outlier in terms of it's difference compared to 2020 and the 5 year average, especially for boys who we know are more likely to have negative consequences from the vaccine." We should recognise that morbidity as well as mortality is a very serious issue with children- we have exposed millions of children to this virus. It is a neurotrophic virus whose effects may take years to manifest itself. Vaccination and NPI’s will mitigate against this- even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there
Gov link are fine"But stating facts about EcoHealth Alliance funding to a certain Asian country isn't? | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. The 3 most common causes of death every year for this age range are in order self harm road ,traffic accidents and murder. Despite the posts of social there is no evidence of a spike in suicide,although no proper data for this year. I would suggest that with the country locked down for a lot of the year in 2020 there would be a pretty big drop in road accidents and murder. Why is has rebounded this year conpared to the 5 year average no idea but you would expect an increase compared to 2020. I'm just telling you what the data says. To my knowledge there isn't a breakdown by age, by week and by cause. If you know of one, I'd gladly look at it. Intuitively you would have expected less car crashes during lockdown - yes. But the data doesn't show that having much effect on the actual deaths, the big drop is the summer. That age bracket is still an outlier in terms of it's difference compared to 2020 and the 5 year average, especially for boys who we know are more likely to have negative consequences from the vaccine. We should recognise that morbidity as well as mortality is a very serious issue with children- we have exposed millions of children to this virus. It is a neurotrophic virus whose effects may take years to manifest itself. Vaccination and NPI’s will mitigate against this- even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run." Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids..." Thankfully, we as parents can evaluate the scientific evidence and guidance, rather than be swayed by some who have vested interests in deterring others, people who have ideological objections etc. Vaccination isn't mandatory and we are wise enough to take appropriate decisions for ourselves and those in our care. The general public in the UK have much to be grateful for, to these vaccines. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. 2020 was a very very low death for death rate for this age group much lower than normal. Seems for whatever reason lockdowns lower young peoples death rates. Nope, there were far less deaths over the summer of 2020 in that age group compared to the 5 year average, the difference during the lockdown months is much smaller. Nor does your comment address the 2021 comparison to the 5 year average. The 3 most common causes of death every year for this age range are in order self harm road ,traffic accidents and murder. Despite the posts of social there is no evidence of a spike in suicide,although no proper data for this year. I would suggest that with the country locked down for a lot of the year in 2020 there would be a pretty big drop in road accidents and murder. Why is has rebounded this year conpared to the 5 year average no idea but you would expect an increase compared to 2020. I'm just telling you what the data says. To my knowledge there isn't a breakdown by age, by week and by cause. If you know of one, I'd gladly look at it. Intuitively you would have expected less car crashes during lockdown - yes. But the data doesn't show that having much effect on the actual deaths, the big drop is the summer. That age bracket is still an outlier in terms of it's difference compared to 2020 and the 5 year average, especially for boys who we know are more likely to have negative consequences from the vaccine. We should recognise that morbidity as well as mortality is a very serious issue with children- we have exposed millions of children to this virus. It is a neurotrophic virus whose effects may take years to manifest itself. Vaccination and NPI’s will mitigate against this- even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. " Not pretend- they recommended it and it is going to be shown in time to have been a terrible decision. Given the recent release of the JCVI minutes, I suspect they are going to have to explain why they did’nt recommend vaccination of children when there own modelling said it would lead to a substantial reduction of hospitalisation of these age groups. Watch this story run……. You have to ask the question ( to which I honestly don’t know the answer) why has this country been so relatively slow to vaccinate U18’s? | |||
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"even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. Not pretend- they recommended it and it is going to be shown in time to have been a terrible decision. Given the recent release of the JCVI minutes, I suspect they are going to have to explain why they did’nt recommend vaccination of children when there own modelling said it would lead to a substantial reduction of hospitalisation of these age groups. Watch this story run……. You have to ask the question ( to which I honestly don’t know the answer) why has this country been so relatively slow to vaccinate U18’s?" They didn't recommend it and they were right not to. You have to ask the question, why are deaths in the 10-19 year old age group for boys so bad this year? | |||
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"even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. Not pretend- they recommended it and it is going to be shown in time to have been a terrible decision. Given the recent release of the JCVI minutes, I suspect they are going to have to explain why they did’nt recommend vaccination of children when there own modelling said it would lead to a substantial reduction of hospitalisation of these age groups. Watch this story run……. You have to ask the question ( to which I honestly don’t know the answer) why has this country been so relatively slow to vaccinate U18’s? They didn't recommend it and they were right not to. You have to ask the question, why are deaths in the 10-19 year old age group for boys so bad this year? " Are you talking about the UK or US figures? | |||
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"even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. Not pretend- they recommended it and it is going to be shown in time to have been a terrible decision. Given the recent release of the JCVI minutes, I suspect they are going to have to explain why they did’nt recommend vaccination of children when there own modelling said it would lead to a substantial reduction of hospitalisation of these age groups. Watch this story run……. You have to ask the question ( to which I honestly don’t know the answer) why has this country been so relatively slow to vaccinate U18’s? They didn't recommend it and they were right not to. You have to ask the question, why are deaths in the 10-19 year old age group for boys so bad this year? Are you talking about the UK or US figures?" England and Wales | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there
Gov link are fine
But stating facts about EcoHealth Alliance funding to a certain Asian country isn't? "If it is on an allowed link yes, if it isn't no. No poster has to guess though, they can read the forum rules to find out and this link. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/feedback/14562 | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there
Gov link are fine
But stating facts about EcoHealth Alliance funding to a certain Asian country isn't?
If it is on an allowed link yes, if it isn't no.
No poster has to guess though, they can read the forum rules to find out and this link.
https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/feedback/14562"It wasn't a link. It was an entire thread deleted yesterday discussing people's views on the origins of the virus. The discussion was very civilised too so I have no idea why that thread disappeared. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids...why ? Are you basing this on data? Yes, the ONS data showing males age 10-19 are disproportionately dying this year vs other age groups, compared to 2020 and the 5 year average 2015-2019 up to and including week 42. can you help with linking to the data as that's interesting. Does it uptick in the last month ? I'm warying about posting links, already had one of my threads deleted today
So you need 2 datasets. Google "ONS weekly deaths" you take the 2021 edition and the 2020 to get the week by week breakdown by age. The 5 year average is in a different dataset, to easiest way to find it is to google: fiveyearaverageweeklydeaths2015to2019 and then you'll get the weekly breakdown, by age, there
Gov link are fine
But stating facts about EcoHealth Alliance funding to a certain Asian country isn't?
If it is on an allowed link yes, if it isn't no.
No poster has to guess though, they can read the forum rules to find out and this link.
https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/feedback/14562
It wasn't a link. It was an entire thread deleted yesterday discussing people's views on the origins of the virus. The discussion was very civilised too so I have no idea why that thread disappeared. "You answered my answer about links so I safely assumed that was what you were talking about. No clue either However On the same rules I mentioned it says you can't dispute a mods decision on the forum which this would fall under. | |||
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"even health economists see that there will be a cost benefit of vaccinating children in the long run. Right so we're just going to pretend the JCVI didn't recommend against mass vaccination of healthy children. Twice. Not pretend- they recommended it and it is going to be shown in time to have been a terrible decision. Given the recent release of the JCVI minutes, I suspect they are going to have to explain why they did’nt recommend vaccination of children when there own modelling said it would lead to a substantial reduction of hospitalisation of these age groups. Watch this story run……. You have to ask the question ( to which I honestly don’t know the answer) why has this country been so relatively slow to vaccinate U18’s? They didn't recommend it and they were right not to. You have to ask the question, why are deaths in the 10-19 year old age group for boys so bad this year? Are you talking about the UK or US figures? England and Wales " Might be worth looking at the John Hopkins website. They have collated all the data from US vaccine use is adolescents- reactions are rare. Proportionally- the UK has administered far less doses. The US data is very reassuring. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure)" Thats my thinking and fatalities from road deaths was also down last year. | |||
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"Why vaccinate an age group where serious illness is extremely rare? Complete and utter lunacy " Long covid is affecting around 1 in 5 young people under the age of 21 I would not say that is extremely rare. | |||
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"20% of a small figure is an even smaller figure. Not sure where that data is coming from even. It’s very difficult to even understand that definition of long covid." Agree the definition is hard but there at least 10000 kids with symptoms that have lasted over a year. This is separate to those who will be affected in years to come. Worth looking at SARS 1 long term outcomes- not good at all | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure)" 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Really? I made sure mine got every vaccination offered. If I had young children, I would make sure they are vaccinated against Covid too. I'm not sure why people are so anti this vaccine when there hasn't been the same issue with other new vaccines. In fact quite often the opposite... there was overwhelming support for the HPV vaccine. it may be because other new vaccines arent made in such a rush, with such low results The vaccines (note the plural, there's several variations) were developed faster than usual because, for once, funding wasn't an issue. These vaccines actually have better results than a lot of others, it's just that there's an awful lot of scaremongering around covid in general. Totally true that both the funding was there and the urgency and reason for a global group of scientists to collaborate, and because the cost of not funding it was way higher economically. But also the research on MRNA approaches has been underway for many years before, then suddenly there was a live environment for the technology to be applied, so the underpinning research and development had been going on for years - Covid just created an opportunity for that research to be applied to a real virus." There is a video out there that includes Dr Anthony Fauci and a panel of other specialist. They openly talk about this and say they need a reason to be able to introduce this new pharmatech into the population. Was pre pandemic when the video was taken. Always reminds me of Bush and his “we need a new pearl harbour” comment. Problem, reaction, solution.  | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. " You keep quoting these death figures for young men but don't actually say what any specific reason so what are you trying to get at? | |||
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"Symptoms, whether is be long covid or minor cough, is hardly reason to give children a vaccine. In the grand scheme of it, kids to not become seriously ill or die so why vaccinate them? I can’t get my head around it" OK but the risks of taking the vaccine are also tiny so surely it's better to take it. | |||
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"Symptoms, whether is be long covid or minor cough, is hardly reason to give children a vaccine. In the grand scheme of it, kids to not become seriously ill or die so why vaccinate them? I can’t get my head around it" 100 kids have died, thousands have been hospitalised- and the most concerning issue are the long term effects not only to children but all ages. Covid leads to decreased grey matter in the brain and most seriously auto antibodies which are pre cursors of neurological disease | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. You keep quoting these death figures for young men but don't actually say what any specific reason so what are you trying to get at?" So you do accept those are the figures? After 3 of you tried gaslighting me the other day saying they weren't the figures or you couldn't find them | |||
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"That is wrong. 100s of kids haven’t died because of the infection " Didn't say that had " Between October 2020 and September 2021, 54 between 10-19 died, under 10 died between ages 5-9 and 12 under 5’s died Of that, I suspect many had underlying conditions. To say 100s have died is clearly wrong " | |||
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"Flu vaccines have been in circulation for years with a better understanding of long term effects When significant chunks of the world population have not had the vaccine, it seems acceptable to waste it on kids that in the main don’t suffer? It’s baffling " We're not giving adults the paediatric (under 12) dose. And in the main vaccine inequity is about hoarding by wealthy countries. I'd certainly rather a kid get vaccinated than the vaccine expire, which is a real risk in many countries. | |||
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"Complexly unethical to jab children when they aren’t at risk. I don’t see how people can accept it. World has gone mad. " If you believe they aren't at risk, it might be unethical. That's not what the evidence suggests. Parents in the US are now able to choose for their children. Choice is a good thing | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. " I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...  | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs... "It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them. "I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. You keep quoting these death figures for young men but don't actually say what any specific reason so what are you trying to get at? So you do accept those are the figures? After 3 of you tried gaslighting me the other day saying they weren't the figures or you couldn't find them "I did no such thing. I have never accepted these figures because it has been explained to you the way the data is collected has changed. Many people said to you they couldnt find the figures and explained why it was the way it was but you have chosen not to believe it and that's on you. Anyway if you were saying children are not dying from covid what are you trying to say they are dying from then? | |||
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"Complexly unethical to jab children when they aren’t at risk. I don’t see how people can accept it. World has gone mad. " And I can't see why people can't accept the vaccination programs work. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them. "Well then what are they dying from because they have only just started vaccinating the under fifteens in this country. Less then 2 weeks ago. | |||
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"That is wrong. 100s of kids haven’t died because of the infection Between October 2020 and September 2021, 54 between 10-19 died, under 10 died between ages 5-9 and 12 under 5’s died Of that, I suspect many had underlying conditions. To say 100s have died is clearly wrong " I didn’t say 100’s . I said 100. We don’t know if they had underlying conditions- irrespective - have we become a society that does’nt want to protect the vulnerable like other countries do. Is it really survival of the fittest children, umm that’s bordering on Eugenics. | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. " In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. | |||
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" When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. You keep quoting these death figures for young men but don't actually say what any specific reason so what are you trying to get at? So you do accept those are the figures? After 3 of you tried gaslighting me the other day saying they weren't the figures or you couldn't find them
I did no such thing. I have never accepted these figures because it has been explained to you the way the data is collected has changed.
Many people said to you they couldnt find the figures and explained why it was the way it was but you have chosen not to believe it and that's on you. Anyway if you were saying children are not dying from covid what are you trying to say they are dying from then?"Sorry I didn't quite get your answer, was that a yes or no that my figures are correct and everything I've said is true? | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them.
Well then what are they dying from because they have only just started vaccinating the under fifteens in this country. Less then 2 weeks ago. "The 10-14s are doing great this year, deaths down on 2020 and the 5 year average, this was mentioned above so try to keep up please | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. " that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. | |||
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"That is wrong. 100s of kids haven’t died because of the infection Between October 2020 and September 2021, 54 between 10-19 died, under 10 died between ages 5-9 and 12 under 5’s died Of that, I suspect many had underlying conditions. To say 100s have died is clearly wrong I didn’t say 100’s . I said 100. We don’t know if they had underlying conditions- irrespective - have we become a society that does’nt want to protect the vulnerable like other countries do. ." Have we become a society that says "oh they had a condition anyway " as if that death doesn't matter | |||
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"That is wrong. 100s of kids haven’t died because of the infection Between October 2020 and September 2021, 54 between 10-19 died, under 10 died between ages 5-9 and 12 under 5’s died Of that, I suspect many had underlying conditions. To say 100s have died is clearly wrong I didn’t say 100’s . I said 100. We don’t know if they had underlying conditions- irrespective - have we become a society that does’nt want to protect the vulnerable like other countries do. . Have we become a society that says "oh they had a condition anyway " as if that death doesn't matter" Exactly, sad but a true reflection | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. " That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" | |||
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"That is wrong. 100s of kids haven’t died because of the infection Between October 2020 and September 2021, 54 between 10-19 died, under 10 died between ages 5-9 and 12 under 5’s died Of that, I suspect many had underlying conditions. To say 100s have died is clearly wrong I didn’t say 100’s . I said 100. We don’t know if they had underlying conditions- irrespective - have we become a society that does’nt want to protect the vulnerable like other countries do. . Have we become a society that says "oh they had a condition anyway " as if that death doesn't matter" | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" " why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them.
Well then what are they dying from because they have only just started vaccinating the under fifteens in this country. Less then 2 weeks ago.
The 10-14s are doing great this year, deaths down on 2020 and the 5 year average, this was mentioned above so try to keep up please"Keep up you say 
I have read and re-read this thread and I have no idea what you are trying to say or prove. It would probably help if you actually came to a point.
What exactly are you saying, please spell it out for me | |||
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"but where are any long term studies? " Is that a serious question? They'll be in the making as we speak  | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. " As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them.
Well then what are they dying from because they have only just started vaccinating the under fifteens in this country. Less then 2 weeks ago.
The 10-14s are doing great this year, deaths down on 2020 and the 5 year average, this was mentioned above so try to keep up please
Keep up you say
I have read and re-read this thread and I have no idea what you are trying to say or prove. It would probably help if you actually came to a point.
What exactly are you saying, please spell it out for me"I'm stating a fact, that the age group doing worst in terms of deaths compared to 2020 and the 5 year average before, is the youngest group that's been vaccinated. Which is also the group we would expect to least benefit from the vaccine because age has a massive correlation with deaths. You may also like to know that all the age brackets over 70 are doing better than 2020, which suggests a net benefit to them. You can do with that information what you please. | |||
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"Re the 10-19 males, what actuall numbers do you have for 5 year avearge, 2020 and 2021. ONS tables need manipulation so may have got this working on my lunch break bit have 642, 596 and 581. Which would tie in with my guess (lockdown reduces death by misadventure) 642 is boys, 10-19 for 52 weeks, of the 5 year average. 520 for the same group but up to and including week 42 (which is what we have 2021 data for). 581 are the 2021 boys, 10-19 deaths up to and including week 42 (so comparable to the 520 5-year average). In 2020, it was even lower at 480. When comparing 2020 to the 5 year average, the first lockdown has a mild difference, the major difference is the summer (weeks 24-35) and second lockdown has even less difference than the first. I'll remind everyone that we were locked down for a good proportion of 2021 too. I hadn't pro rated. School boy. Looks like it's the 15-19yo that are running hot. I'm gonna draw some graphs...
It is, the 10-14 are actually down but I included them because vaccine rollout does include over 12s. Also note the week that the 2021 data starts to diverge from 2020 and the 5 year average and remember when we started vaccinating them.
Well then what are they dying from because they have only just started vaccinating the under fifteens in this country. Less then 2 weeks ago.
The 10-14s are doing great this year, deaths down on 2020 and the 5 year average, this was mentioned above so try to keep up please
Keep up you say
I have read and re-read this thread and I have no idea what you are trying to say or prove. It would probably help if you actually came to a point.
What exactly are you saying, please spell it out for me
I'm stating a fact, that the age group doing worst in terms of deaths compared to 2020 and the 5 year average before, is the youngest group that's been vaccinated. Which is also the group we would expect to least benefit from the vaccine because age has a massive correlation with deaths. You may also like to know that all the age brackets over 70 are doing better than 2020, which suggests a net benefit to them.
You can do with that information what you please. "Okay got that, what are you thinking is the root cause for that uplift? | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. " yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ?" A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. " It is not and never will be Gene therapy. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. " wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. | |||
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"Remember that the dose that the 5-11 yr olds are getting is NOT the same as adults….. Adults get a 30 microgram dose of the vaccine…. What 5-11 yr olds are getting is a 10 microgram dose of the vaccine….." It’s NOT the same if you choose it to be …. However a 500mg of paracetamol to 100 kilos of body weight against 25 kilos seems to make a difference? Essentially same dose if not more for children by weight | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. " Just Google "definition of a vaccine" it's on the medical dictionary website. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. Just Google "definition of a vaccine" it's on the medical dictionary website. " For a start not all the vaccines are based on mrna technology. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. Just Google "definition of a vaccine" it's on the medical dictionary website. " So you rely on a 2003 definition to exclude something that didn't exist in 2003? | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. Just Google "definition of a vaccine" it's on the medical dictionary website. For a start not all the vaccines are based on mrna technology." Also gene therapy uses genes to treat something not mrna. | |||
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" I'm stating a fact, that the age group doing worst in terms of deaths compared to 2020 and the 5 year average before, is the youngest group that's been vaccinated. Which is also the group we would expect to least benefit from the vaccine because age has a massive correlation with deaths. You may also like to know that all the age brackets over 70 are doing better than 2020, which suggests a net benefit to them. You can do with that information what you please. Okay got that, what are you thinking is the root cause for that uplift?" You know I've spent the last 19 months having people sarcastically ask me if I'm a doctor, or a virologist or where I did my medical training. You know, generally telling me my opinion doesn't mean shit. So it's kind of amusing that 2 people on the thread are suddenly interested in my opinion now that there's an inconvenient fact that doesn't fit the narrative. I have to flip it back to you and suggest you ask 'the experts' that have been doing such a stellar job for the last 19 months. Not that they'll answer, I will say I find that rather telling in itself. | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? " 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. | |||
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"If you saw what my friends kid is going through as a result of having covid then you may think again, he has Kawasaki like PIMS and is extremely poorly and in picu. I will be having my kids vaccinated against it." Oh god. I'm so sorry | |||
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" That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. " This isn't gene therapy though. Those vaccines based on the mRNA model, such as the Pfizer one, fully are still vaccines. They initiate the body producing recognisable parts of the spike protein, which our immune system then develops antibodies against. We've been so fortunate that our expertise with vaccines has been developed so much, since they were first used. | |||
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"5 year olds do NOT need viagra " I'm afraid to ask how you know this and why you thought it necessary to mention. | |||
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"I genuinely hope there is no parents who want to vaccinate their kids... Why not most kids are vaccinated for all sorts of things. Thatis how we have pretty much wiped out a lot of dangerous child hood diseases like polio and measles etc. That's true but this isn't a "vaccine" why not ? What makes something a vaccine ? A vaccine has to contain either a low dose of the virus or a dead virus so the body's immune system can recognise & fight the virus. This current treatment is mrna & therefore classed as gene therapy. wheres that defn from ? Everywher me I've looked is about the ends (stimulating antibodies) not the how. Just Google "definition of a vaccine" it's on the medical dictionary website. " "A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease" That covers every Covid jab out there. | |||
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"Always amazes me how many trust the media, the government, the 'scientists'.... Yet most would say they don't trust the government, and the government control the media, and aren't these so called 'scientists' on the media too ? - hence possibly coerced into spouting what has been written for them ?. Beware what you believe..." Please explain how the government controls the media. | |||
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"Always amazes me how many trust the media, the government, the 'scientists'.... Yet most would say they don't trust the government, and the government control the media, and aren't these so called 'scientists' on the media too ? - hence possibly coerced into spouting what has been written for them ?. Beware what you believe... Please explain how the government controls the media." Or scientists being in the media | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. " I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. | |||
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"It's madness. For many years, most of us have accepted the importance of vaccinatng kids. And yet suddenly, certain people are running around screaming how kids shouldn't be vaccinated, how unsafe it is. These same people always ignore how it's far, far , far more unsafe for kids to be unvaccinated. I think we're seeing the end result of conspiracy theories and misunderstandings spread far and wide via social media." The creator of the oxford zenica jab said there is no need to vaccinate kids Is he a conspiracy theorist? Seems alot of people only "listen to the science" when it bolsters their opinion | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. " OK so lets conclude, we currently have between 76 and 107 more boys aged 15-19 dead, than we'd expect at this point in the year. Nobody knows why, very few people are asking why, it gets virtually no media coverage and 'the experts' won't say why. When faced with this data, most people instantly bury their head in the sand. If you plot the data and understand the basic risk factors of covid, it fits pretty perfectly with the oldest age groups getting the most benefit from mass vaccination and youngest getting the least. The middle of that is still well above the 5 year average because they do actually die from covid. The 15-19 generally does not. The risk factors for 15-19 are car accidents, suicide and homicide. According to the government, precisely zero 15-19 year old boys have died from the vaccine. Not even 1. 76 and 107 extra dead kids, not one of them died from the vaccine but we don't know what they did die from. That's actually what I find most suspicious. But you guys do you and rush out to do the one thing that's different about 2021, won't be my kids adding to those stats. | |||
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" I'm stating a fact, that the age group doing worst in terms of deaths compared to 2020 and the 5 year average before, is the youngest group that's been vaccinated. Which is also the group we would expect to least benefit from the vaccine because age has a massive correlation with deaths. You may also like to know that all the age brackets over 70 are doing better than 2020, which suggests a net benefit to them. You can do with that information what you please. Okay got that, what are you thinking is the root cause for that uplift? You know I've spent the last 19 months having people sarcastically ask me if I'm a doctor, or a virologist or where I did my medical training. You know, generally telling me my opinion doesn't mean shit. So it's kind of amusing that 2 people on the thread are suddenly interested in my opinion now that there's an inconvenient fact that doesn't fit the narrative. I have to flip it back to you and suggest you ask 'the experts' that have been doing such a stellar job for the last 19 months. Not that they'll answer, I will say I find that rather telling in itself. " I know nothing about you being challenged over the last 19 months, why would I? I'm all for choice, choice based on reliable and credible information that allows individuals to make informed decisions that ultimately may affect their health and the health of others around them. Which is why I'm interested in your opinion, you seem to constantly trying to spin a narrative. Your posts and findings are generally ambiguous in nature which leaves room for your narrative to change direction based upon response. I feel right now you are at a critical point, I'm unsure if you have real information that is worth knowing (very unsure) or I'm witnessing the very start of a misinformation story that is trying to gain support. Transparency is our friend | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. OK so lets conclude, we currently have between 76 and 107 more boys aged 15-19 dead, than we'd expect at this point in the year. Nobody knows why, very few people are asking why, it gets virtually no media coverage and 'the experts' won't say why. When faced with this data, most people instantly bury their head in the sand. If you plot the data and understand the basic risk factors of covid, it fits pretty perfectly with the oldest age groups getting the most benefit from mass vaccination and youngest getting the least. The middle of that is still well above the 5 year average because they do actually die from covid. The 15-19 generally does not. The risk factors for 15-19 are car accidents, suicide and homicide. According to the government, precisely zero 15-19 year old boys have died from the vaccine. Not even 1. 76 and 107 extra dead kids, not one of them died from the vaccine but we don't know what they did die from. That's actually what I find most suspicious. But you guys do you and rush out to do the one thing that's different about 2021, won't be my kids adding to those stats." And here we are as I thought, you are spinning to get to the final part of the story as to why you wont be getting your kids vaccinated. You have no evidence at all other than what you can't explain. This is exactly how misinformation is started, well done. | |||
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" I'm stating a fact, that the age group doing worst in terms of deaths compared to 2020 and the 5 year average before, is the youngest group that's been vaccinated. Which is also the group we would expect to least benefit from the vaccine because age has a massive correlation with deaths. You may also like to know that all the age brackets over 70 are doing better than 2020, which suggests a net benefit to them. You can do with that information what you please. Okay got that, what are you thinking is the root cause for that uplift? You know I've spent the last 19 months having people sarcastically ask me if I'm a doctor, or a virologist or where I did my medical training. You know, generally telling me my opinion doesn't mean shit. So it's kind of amusing that 2 people on the thread are suddenly interested in my opinion now that there's an inconvenient fact that doesn't fit the narrative. I have to flip it back to you and suggest you ask 'the experts' that have been doing such a stellar job for the last 19 months. Not that they'll answer, I will say I find that rather telling in itself. I know nothing about you being challenged over the last 19 months, why would I? I'm all for choice, choice based on reliable and credible information that allows individuals to make informed decisions that ultimately may affect their health and the health of others around them. Which is why I'm interested in your opinion, you seem to constantly trying to spin a narrative. Your posts and findings are generally ambiguous in nature which leaves room for your narrative to change direction based upon response. I feel right now you are at a critical point, I'm unsure if you have real information that is worth knowing (very unsure) or I'm witnessing the very start of a misinformation story that is trying to gain support. Transparency is our friend " Sorry to break it to you but I'm not a coroner and I'm not going to make claims I can't prove. It's up to you what you do with the information. I know what I'm doing with it. The ONS is reliable, credible information. I'm not spinning any narrative nor have I backtracked or contradicted myself on anything. It just took certain people a long time to acknowledge what was right there in the official data. | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. OK so lets conclude, we currently have between 76 and 107 more boys aged 15-19 dead, than we'd expect at this point in the year. Nobody knows why, very few people are asking why, it gets virtually no media coverage and 'the experts' won't say why. When faced with this data, most people instantly bury their head in the sand. If you plot the data and understand the basic risk factors of covid, it fits pretty perfectly with the oldest age groups getting the most benefit from mass vaccination and youngest getting the least. The middle of that is still well above the 5 year average because they do actually die from covid. The 15-19 generally does not. The risk factors for 15-19 are car accidents, suicide and homicide. According to the government, precisely zero 15-19 year old boys have died from the vaccine. Not even 1. 76 and 107 extra dead kids, not one of them died from the vaccine but we don't know what they did die from. That's actually what I find most suspicious. But you guys do you and rush out to do the one thing that's different about 2021, won't be my kids adding to those stats. And here we are as I thought, you are spinning to get to the final part of the story as to why you wont be getting your kids vaccinated. You have no evidence at all other than what you can't explain. This is exactly how misinformation is started, well done." It's not what I can't explain
It's not my job to explain. Go bury your head in the sand for all I care. This was clearly news to you and it clearly doesn't bother you that your usual sources of information didn't give it to you. If that's not a red to you then I can't help you. | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. OK so lets conclude, we currently have between 76 and 107 more boys aged 15-19 dead, than we'd expect at this point in the year. Nobody knows why, very few people are asking why, it gets virtually no media coverage and 'the experts' won't say why. When faced with this data, most people instantly bury their head in the sand. If you plot the data and understand the basic risk factors of covid, it fits pretty perfectly with the oldest age groups getting the most benefit from mass vaccination and youngest getting the least. The middle of that is still well above the 5 year average because they do actually die from covid. The 15-19 generally does not. The risk factors for 15-19 are car accidents, suicide and homicide. According to the government, precisely zero 15-19 year old boys have died from the vaccine. Not even 1. 76 and 107 extra dead kids, not one of them died from the vaccine but we don't know what they did die from. That's actually what I find most suspicious. But you guys do you and rush out to do the one thing that's different about 2021, won't be my kids adding to those stats. And here we are as I thought, you are spinning to get to the final part of the story as to why you wont be getting your kids vaccinated. You have no evidence at all other than what you can't explain. This is exactly how misinformation is started, well done. It's not what I can't explain
It's not my job to explain. Go bury your head in the sand for all I care. This was clearly news to you and it clearly doesn't bother you that your usual sources of information didn't give it to you. If that's not a red to you then I can't help you. "Absolute nonsense, you're taking information and guessing outcomes. You have absolutely no idea what the reasons are for the slightly higher death rates in an age bracket, but you have decided to attach a narrative that suits your agenda. Shocking, absolutely shocking. | |||
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" I'm not trusting my excel skills ATM, but I'm seeing 2021 noticeably higher than the long term average around week 23. So id see it as linked to lockdown than vaccines if anything. Interestingly in the last few months it's broadly the same shape as the average just exaggerated. In 2020, when we came out of lockdown then the deaths went down significantly compared to the 5 year average so that wouldn't fit your explanation. that wasn't quite the full relaxation of rules. I could try and make up some stories to fit, but I would be guessing. However I'm not seeing vaccines as being a big part, given the trend is more than a few weeks old. It's also a small number of death so can easily be spiked by a few isolated events. As someone correctly said on another thread, the leading causes of death for that age group are car accidents, suicide and homicide. So I don't believe there were any rules in place that would effect those things. Masks in supermarket doesn't really explain it. yet wasn't 2020 under the 5 year average? And why did 2021 show spikes at the mid year... That's before vaccines for that age group, right ? 2020 was below the 5 year average yes, but to different extents at different points in the year. The 10-19 age group starts diverging from both averages at the same time anyone over 18 was offered the vaccine. Then in August they rolled it out to 16-18 and October for 12-15 despite the JCVI saying not to. Twice. I can't rule out your theory just from looking at the data, in the same way I'd hope you agree you cant rule out it's linked to changes in lockdown/holidays or just year on year variation. But I'm not seeing any other data to support a vaccine issue. The next age group up doesnt support it. The limited yellow flags suggest deaths are low accoss the board. And if kids were dying suddenly and unexplained, I'd have imagined one paper would have got this. And if not in the UK, somewhere. That why, while open to all stories, id lean away from vaccines being the cause. OK so lets conclude, we currently have between 76 and 107 more boys aged 15-19 dead, than we'd expect at this point in the year. Nobody knows why, very few people are asking why, it gets virtually no media coverage and 'the experts' won't say why. When faced with this data, most people instantly bury their head in the sand. If you plot the data and understand the basic risk factors of covid, it fits pretty perfectly with the oldest age groups getting the most benefit from mass vaccination and youngest getting the least. The middle of that is still well above the 5 year average because they do actually die from covid. The 15-19 generally does not. The risk factors for 15-19 are car accidents, suicide and homicide. According to the government, precisely zero 15-19 year old boys have died from the vaccine. Not even 1. 76 and 107 extra dead kids, not one of them died from the vaccine but we don't know what they did die from. That's actually what I find most suspicious. But you guys do you and rush out to do the one thing that's different about 2021, won't be my kids adding to those stats. And here we are as I thought, you are spinning to get to the final part of the story as to why you wont be getting your kids vaccinated. You have no evidence at all other than what you can't explain. This is exactly how misinformation is started, well done. It's not what I can't explain
It's not my job to explain. Go bury your head in the sand for all I care. This was clearly news to you and it clearly doesn't bother you that your usual sources of information didn't give it to you. If that's not a red to you then I can't help you.
Absolute nonsense, you're taking information and guessing outcomes. You have absolutely no idea what the reasons are for the slightly higher death rates in an age bracket, but you have decided to attach a narrative that suits your agenda.
Shocking, absolutely shocking."What's shocking is your cognitive dissonance, but the good news is that I really don't care about your life choices so do what you want. | |||
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"Fortunately I don't have kids in that age group to have to choose for. But if I did I'd need a more compelling reason for putting drugs in their body and right now I'm not seeing a compelling case being made, beyond fear of missing out and crow barring statistics to fit a desired outcome. I'd suggest a more wise use of time and energy, to achieve a significantly more beneficial outcome, would be to rejab those who already make up the bulk of infections, illness, hospital admissions and deaths and communicate openly and honestly and allow parents to make an informed choice. If people really cared for our youngsters they'd stop spreading rumours of death, misery and destruction. 24 hours a day 7 days a week unless they get a jab, eat plants and wear rags made from bananas. The biggest epidemic we have in that age group is fear and mental and emotional well being. " Here here.... And what about the fear and emotional/mental harm that has been caused to older age groups by the govts handling and misinformation throughout ? A good starting point is a graph from the gov.uk website showing deaths from influenza over the years. The stats are shocking compared to 'covid' yet no masks, no lockdowns, no mass hysteria created by the govt controlled media. 9,000 to 13,000 DEATHS PER WEEK JUST IN ENGLAND ALONE were recorded over a number of years. Get your heads round that one. | |||
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"Fortunately I don't have kids in that age group to have to choose for. But if I did I'd need a more compelling reason for putting drugs in their body and right now I'm not seeing a compelling case being made, beyond fear of missing out and crow barring statistics to fit a desired outcome. I'd suggest a more wise use of time and energy, to achieve a significantly more beneficial outcome, would be to rejab those who already make up the bulk of infections, illness, hospital admissions and deaths and communicate openly and honestly and allow parents to make an informed choice. If people really cared for our youngsters they'd stop spreading rumours of death, misery and destruction. 24 hours a day 7 days a week unless they get a jab, eat plants and wear rags made from bananas. The biggest epidemic we have in that age group is fear and mental and emotional well being. Here here.... And what about the fear and emotional/mental harm that has been caused to older age groups by the govts handling and misinformation throughout ? A good starting point is a graph from the gov.uk website showing deaths from influenza over the years. The stats are shocking compared to 'covid' yet no masks, no lockdowns, no mass hysteria created by the govt controlled media. 9,000 to 13,000 DEATHS PER WEEK JUST IN ENGLAND ALONE were recorded over a number of years. Get your heads round that one." which years ? And what's your source? A quick eyeball of weekly averages has maybe 13k deaths per week in total. | |||
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"Thoughts on this? Im double jabbed but would have concerns with getting my 5 year old jabbed. Its fact that covid doesn't effect children severely as adults. I get that children spread it but does the vaccine stop the spread significantly enough to out weight the vaccine side effects against child covid serious illness and death?" Can I ask did your children have mmr vaccines around that age? I only ask mine did and grandkids and thankfully hear little of folk getting them so its not a new thing vaccinating over 5s of course folk may have concerns but think about success of mmr jabs its same as covid no cure but protection against worst effects. | |||
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"Fortunately I don't have kids in that age group to have to choose for. But if I did I'd need a more compelling reason for putting drugs in their body and right now I'm not seeing a compelling case being made, beyond fear of missing out and crow barring statistics to fit a desired outcome. I'd suggest a more wise use of time and energy, to achieve a significantly more beneficial outcome, would be to rejab those who already make up the bulk of infections, illness, hospital admissions and deaths and communicate openly and honestly and allow parents to make an informed choice. If people really cared for our youngsters they'd stop spreading rumours of death, misery and destruction. 24 hours a day 7 days a week unless they get a jab, eat plants and wear rags made from bananas. The biggest epidemic we have in that age group is fear and mental and emotional well being. Here here.... And what about the fear and emotional/mental harm that has been caused to older age groups by the govts handling and misinformation throughout ? A good starting point is a graph from the gov.uk website showing deaths from influenza over the years. The stats are shocking compared to 'covid' yet no masks, no lockdowns, no mass hysteria created by the govt controlled media. 9,000 to 13,000 DEATHS PER WEEK JUST IN ENGLAND ALONE were recorded over a number of years. Get your heads round that one." The deaths compared to covid from flu are not even close. Even in a really bad you there is normally a maximum of 30000 deaths. We are currently on 140000 plus in 18 months from covid. | |||
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"Thoughts on this? Im double jabbed but would have concerns with getting my 5 year old jabbed. Its fact that covid doesn't effect children severely as adults. I get that children spread it but does the vaccine stop the spread significantly enough to out weight the vaccine side effects against child covid serious illness and death? Can I ask did your children have mmr vaccines around that age? I only ask mine did and grandkids and thankfully hear little of folk getting them so its not a new thing vaccinating over 5s of course folk may have concerns but think about success of mmr jabs its same as covid no cure but protection against worst effects." Childhood vax rates for different vaccines... https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8556/CBP-8556.pdf | |||
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"It's madness. For many years, most of us have accepted the importance of vaccinatng kids. And yet suddenly, certain people are running around screaming how kids shouldn't be vaccinated, how unsafe it is. These same people always ignore how it's far, far , far more unsafe for kids to be unvaccinated. I think we're seeing the end result of conspiracy theories and misunderstandings spread far and wide via social media." Those vaccines given to kids and the Covid vaccine are 2 different types of vaccines. So it’s fine for someone to avoid the Covid vaccine as they have made the judgement that the Covid MRNA vaccine is not for their kids. We need to remember that these vaccines are a new type of vaccine, nothing like what kids are already getting as part of their immunisations. Don’t compare other vaccines to this as there is a massive difference to the two. | |||
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"Has everyone forgot they have natural immune systems??? Antibodies and paracetamol... More people that are unvaccinated are hospitalised than the unvaxed??? "Lots of people died and I suppose they didn't know they had their own immune system ... By the way you should have proof read your post it's garbage .. no offence | |||
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"Has everyone forgot they have natural immune systems??? Antibodies and paracetamol... More people that are unvaccinated are hospitalised than the unvaxed??? "Do tell, what GCSE grades did you get get in biology and maths? Your level of comprehension in either subject has certainly not improved in the years since. | |||
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" Those vaccines given to kids and the Covid vaccine are 2 different types of vaccines. So it’s fine for someone to avoid the Covid vaccine as they have made the judgement that the Covid MRNA vaccine is not for their kids. We need to remember that these vaccines are a new type of vaccine, nothing like what kids are already getting as part of their immunisations. Don’t compare other vaccines to this as there is a massive difference to the two." Terrifying. I read on Facebook that the vast majority of the cells in your body contain mRNA. Most foodstuffs too! It's everywhere!!1! Almost as dangerous as the dihydrogen monoxide that is found in the lungs of 100% of drowning victims. /s (just in case). | |||
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"Always amazes me how many trust the media, the government, the 'scientists'.... Yet most would say they don't trust the government, and the government control the media, and aren't these so called 'scientists' on the media too ? - hence possibly coerced into spouting what has been written for them ?. Beware what you believe... Please explain how the government controls the media. Or scientists being in the media "Didn't you know Dr Atwal from Scunthorpe has Rupert Murdoch on speed dial. | |||
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"If you saw what my friends kid is going through as a result of having covid then you may think again, he has Kawasaki like PIMS and is extremely poorly and in picu. I will be having my kids vaccinated against it. Oh god. I'm so sorry" Inflammation of the heart and vessels and a coronary artery aneurysm. Thankfully stable but a long recovery ahead for him. This was as a result of having covid a few weeks ago. | |||
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"If you saw what my friends kid is going through as a result of having covid then you may think again, he has Kawasaki like PIMS and is extremely poorly and in picu. I will be having my kids vaccinated against it. Oh god. I'm so sorry Inflammation of the heart and vessels and a coronary artery aneurysm. Thankfully stable but a long recovery ahead for him. This was as a result of having covid a few weeks ago." I can't even imagine. I hope the recovery is smooth and complete. I hate that we're putting kids in harm's way like this | |||
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"As a parent, i see a lot of people that have high opinions on child that need to be vaccinated that dont have kids. For a parent, the choice of vaccinating your child is a major one, for me i do not see any positivity in allowing a vaccine to enter my children's bodies which the makers hold no repercussions if anything may go wrong. Which no matter how small the risk according to some, there are still some major risks and side effects of the vaccine. There are NO long term studies on Paediatrics for any of the Covid vaccines. All my kids are up to date with the vaccines that have been around for a long time. All my kids (4) have had Covid once they returned to school, not one was ill or have any long term damage. That goes for a lot of the other kids within the 3 different schools my kids go to. So for the majority i cant see any benefits, give it another year and all pupils will have had Covid anyway, so natural immunity will be ample in the schools anyway. Let their immune systems do their job. " See my comments above about what my friend is going through, you're fortunate to have had no ill effects some aren't and if a parent chooses to have their child vaccinated like I will be doing to give them some protection then that is their choice just like any other vaccine offered. | |||
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"I cant and wont speak for a friends experience, as thats the new age argument. “I know someone” or “i have a friend” as soon as thats mentioned you lose merit. Its dreadful for your friends child who has suffered with long Covid, i doubt you wont know the full medical history of that child either, as the past medical history would play a major factor in the Long covid with that child. Like a said the MAJORITY will not need a vaccine, if you are the parent and know all the past medical history and you know there are no under laying conditions, why give them something that could cause them harm? Why are the parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids, which the JVCI said the risks out way the benefits, being looked at like they are doing something wrong? The politicians are the ones that have perused these decisions, i am sorry if you have that much faith in the Government, but they have been wrong on every turn. The Governing medical bodies have advised against paediatrics being vaccinated " This is what the jcvi actually said... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-updated-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15 | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. " The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science..." Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. " From my perspective it's not a difficult decision at all. I think this whole pandemic boils down to whether you think all lives are equally valuable or not. I don't. My life is more important than my fathers and less important than my childs. When my child has a child then I'll be the least important in the chain. Other people are clearly living with a different set of values but we're never going to agree. Either way, it's still not a difficult decision because which of those you believe informs which choice you should make. | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. " I think you're right. But a couple of things would help parents arrive at that choice. Let's not also lose sight of the fact that most people would rather not make a choice and would rather someone did it for them. Follow the science say some people.... Sure which science.? Because even the scientists (as if they are some god like knowing species) don't all agree on everything. In the last covid surveillance report (week 44).. In rough numbers... 400k infections in under 18s...pretty much none vaccinated... 6 deaths...all unvaccinated. Now compare that to above 18s..about 600k infections... Pretty much all double vaccinated 3000 pretty much all double vaccinated. So make of that what you will. | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. I think you're right. But a couple of things would help parents arrive at that choice. Let's not also lose sight of the fact that most people would rather not make a choice and would rather someone did it for them. Follow the science say some people.... Sure which science.? Because even the scientists (as if they are some god like knowing species) don't all agree on everything. In the last covid surveillance report (week 44).. In rough numbers... 400k infections in under 18s...pretty much none vaccinated... 6 deaths...all unvaccinated. Now compare that to above 18s..about 600k infections... Pretty much all double vaccinated 3000 pretty much all double vaccinated. So make of that what you will. " my making of it: covid affects older people more than younger people. Looking at the per 100k rate: an unvaxxed under 18 has a similar risk profile (hospitalisations, deaths) of a vaccinated 35yo. There's an argument if the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks. But the above reads as tho you doubt the vaccine has any benefits ... or is making things worse .... | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. I think you're right. But a couple of things would help parents arrive at that choice. Let's not also lose sight of the fact that most people would rather not make a choice and would rather someone did it for them. Follow the science say some people.... Sure which science.? Because even the scientists (as if they are some god like knowing species) don't all agree on everything. In the last covid surveillance report (week 44).. In rough numbers... 400k infections in under 18s...pretty much none vaccinated... 6 deaths...all unvaccinated. Now compare that to above 18s..about 600k infections... Pretty much all double vaccinated 3000 pretty much all double vaccinated. So make of that what you will. my making of it: covid affects older people more than younger people. Looking at the per 100k rate: an unvaxxed under 18 has a similar risk profile (hospitalisations, deaths) of a vaccinated 35yo. There's an argument if the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks. But the above reads as tho you doubt the vaccine has any benefits ... or is making things worse .... " No, it's a point made by someone trying to use statistics but fortunately it's wrong | |||
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"Did the JVCI say that ? I thought it was more the benefits doesn't outweigh the risks enough. It's a subtle difference. It's a shit position to be in ATM. Everyone is dealing with trading off very small risks. That's not easy. And none knows the long-term issues (if any) of either the vaccine or covid. For me, covid is showing long term issues. So I'm more wary of that. But it's not easy. The known risks. Subtle difference but an important one considering how much they already fudge the data. Oh and the government helped a lot of JVCI members find new jobs after they rejected it the first time in the hope the new JVCI would come back with a difference answer. So follow the science... Its an important decision for any parent, one not to be taken lightly. I suppose i am lucky, as my kids have had Covid, with no long term effects or issues whilst having it. The only issue i had was having 10 days locked in a house with 4 hyper kids, i know there are zero benefits to allow them to be vaccinated with a vaccine that could cause side effects. However, my point it that does not stop people, jumping onto this band wagon of finger pointing. Whatever decision a parent makes, should be decided with the margins of “whats best for that specific child, short term and long term” as they are just starting their life, whatever decision a Parent makes could have long term effects for their kids. Weather its long Covid or Vaccine side effects, parents need to make a facts based decision, by doing their own research and not relying on government pressure or people that have their own self preserving views pushed onto parents. From my perspective it's not a difficult decision at all. I think this whole pandemic boils down to whether you think all lives are equally valuable or not. I don't. My life is more important than my fathers and less important than my childs. When my child has a child then I'll be the least important in the chain. Other people are clearly living with a different set of values but we're never going to agree. Either way, it's still not a difficult decision because which of those you believe informs which choice you should make. " I 100% agree with the life chain here. Its amazing how this day and age people dont have the same values. Thank god, the people during WW2 had similar views, as they sacrificed themselves with a view of protecting future generations. Those views gave us the Freedom we have today. | |||
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"If covid affected young children then I'd say yes but it generally doesn't so I don't think it's worth vaccinating them for 6 months protection " We don't even know the long-term effects on children post-infection. The virus infects via the ACE2 receptor, present most prominently in the throat/nose and lungs. But also in the stomach/intestines and some regions of the brain. There are a number of sources of information available. I prefer to not rely on facebook/twitter/etc, largely because they are inhabited with troll-factories spouting total twattishness. However: (NIH-USA) "Evidence from the first study of long covid in children suggests that more than half of children aged between 6 and 16 years old who contract the virus have at least one symptom lasting more than 120 days, with 42.6 per cent impaired by these symptoms during daily activities. These interim results are based on periodic assessments of 129 children in Italy who were diagnosed with covid-19 between March and November 2020 at the Gemelli University Hospital in Rome. The UK Office for National Statistics's latest report estimates that 12.9 per cent of UK children aged 2 to 11, and 14.5 per cent of children aged 12 to 16, still have symptoms five weeks after their first infection. Almost 500,000 UK children have tested positive for covid-19 since March 2020. But by all means, believe Mad-Betty on tik-tok first. | |||
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