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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. " | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. HERE HERE! " | |||
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"I couldn't care less if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, it's a personal choice......but I won't lose any sleep if they succumb to the virus as they chose not to have it." You mean if I don't take vaccine and I die .you would be cool with that? | |||
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"Can you expand on "for whatever reasons" and actually explain why you've not had it then? Otherwise there can't be much discussion." For me personally...I've lost members of my family through medical malpractice..so I've been brought up with a general distrust of the medical system | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it." | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it." So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. " . This is the most sensible and reality check comment/reply I've read on here in ages. Everything JJFrench says is totally on point. Especially the part of world leaders and mainstream media wanting to demonise the (so called) unvaccinated. Like JJ says it is not always simply down to choice. Despite what those buffoons 'running' Scotland, France, Italy, Australia and New Zealand say. For the record I'm fully vaccinated. But I can see no logic in their approaches. Testing? Yes. Encouraging people to get vaccinated if they can? Yes. But their agendas seem very counterproductive. Unless you are in the vaccine business of course. | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. . This is the most sensible and reality check comment/reply I've read on here in ages. Everything JJFrench says is totally on point. Especially the part of world leaders and mainstream media wanting to demonise the (so called) unvaccinated. Like JJ says it is not always simply down to choice. Despite what those buffoons 'running' Scotland, France, Italy, Australia and New Zealand say. For the record I'm fully vaccinated. But I can see no logic in their approaches. Testing? Yes. Encouraging people to get vaccinated if they can? Yes. But their agendas seem very counterproductive. Unless you are in the vaccine business of course. " Great words  | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. " I don't usually comment on here. But I just had to say how sensible and well thought out this reply is. | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work " it's not a vaccine as such it's the same as the flu jab that's not a vaccine. This covid jabs is a trial drug and still not a year old and no long term data on it and the people selling it can't say how long it will give you anti-bodies for or so called protection | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work " do you really need someone to explain how it works or are you just trolling with the vax doesn't work comment? | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work do you really need someone to explain how it works or are you just trolling with the vax doesn't work comment?" but dose it give you better 5G  | |||
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"Take the Jab and another AND now another and yet……. You can still catch Covid etc. Yes we know hospital rates are or should be lower etc BUT…. Cue the fact checkers "We will never know the full truth, fact, fiction - who do we believe! It came from that source, they're telling the truth or it came from another, they must be right. Two vaccines in the same year, hasn't really filled me with hope that it works. A third had me question it completely - which I'm entitled to have, but not taken it.... Rushed it was unfortunately...think time will tell  | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. "  | |||
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"I couldn't care less if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, it's a personal choice......but I won't lose any sleep if they succumb to the virus as they chose not to have it. You mean if I don't take vaccine and I die .you would be cool with that?" You make your choice it’s that simple | |||
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"Can you expand on "for whatever reasons" and actually explain why you've not had it then? Otherwise there can't be much discussion. For me personally...I've lost members of my family through medical malpractice..so I've been brought up with a general distrust of the medical system " What do yo do then if your sick / ill / injured? If you broke your leg you would not go to hospital and try and fix it yourself? If you were unfortunate to pick up an STI would you just leave it in the hope that it would eventually go away? Would you also no longer drive a car if you had lost someone or they had been badly injured due to someone else’s negligent driving? | |||
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"Take the Jab and another AND now another and yet……. You can still catch Covid etc. Yes we know hospital rates are or should be lower etc BUT…. Cue the fact checkers
We will never know the full truth, fact, fiction - who do we believe!
It came from that source, they're telling the truth or it came from another, they must be right.
Two vaccines in the same year, hasn't really filled me with hope that it works. A third had me question it completely - which I'm entitled to have, but not taken it.... Rushed it was unfortunately...think time will tell "THAT!! I can reason with  | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it." If you were to go on a theme park / fairground ride would you refuse to use the safety holding devices because if you hold yourself in tight enough you won’t fall out. It’s potential damage limitation. Covid vaccines are not yet a cure because Covid is not the same as (for example) smallpox where the vaccine has as good as eradicated it. If the Covid vaccines reduce the spread, cut the risk of dieing, cut the risk of being seriously ill or hospitalised then surely thats a good thing (all the evidence so far points to this). From a gambling point of view one is reducing your risk of being seriously affected by Covid and reducing the risk to others at a very smaller risk of being affected by the vaccine yourself. Like in a horse race more often than not the 2/1 favourite will win but on a rare occasion the 100/1 outsider will. | |||
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"I couldn't care less who is vaccinated or not. But I do care about freedom of choice "Me too but the care sector had two choices, get vaccinated or lose your job ... nothing to sign from the government, just two choices !! | |||
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" For me personally...I've lost members of my family through medical malpractice..so I've been brought up with a general distrust of the medical system " You've had more than one family member die as a result of medical malpractice ? | |||
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" You've had more than one family member die as a result of medical malpractice ?" The family will be millionaires from the compensation but it can't bring back their loved ones | |||
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"I couldn't care less if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, it's a personal choice......but I won't lose any sleep if they succumb to the virus as they chose not to have it. You mean if I don't take vaccine and I die .you would be cool with that?" If our paths crossed; perhaps I was a friend of yours or a medical professional looking after you, then I would be focused on your welfare if you caught the virus. As someone who would just see you included in the statistics, I would feel detached from you and just feel saddened to hear of someone else who has become another statistic. If you choose not to take up the offer of a reduced risk of catching the virus and, if you still catch it, reduced risk of it turning life threatening, then that’s up to you. I’m vaccinated and I’ve stopped wearing a mask. I want to live my life and life is too short to be worrying about the what ifs. If it gets me then I guess it was my time. You make your own choices. Live your own life. | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine "Think it depends if they wish to participate tbh. Majority won't for obvious reasons, which ironically is stopping their freedom of choice.... | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine "It’s a forum. Put ‘ladies only’ in the header and the guys still comment. | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine
It’s a forum. Put ‘ladies only’ in the header and the guys still comment. "True and I know they obviously can as no one can be “stopped” as such from doing so but should they? This section is brimming with pro vaccine posters, would it be nice, as the OP intended for there to be ONE post for those who are unvaccinated to chat without the vaccinated (predictably) hijacking and bashing? Just a thought | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine
Think it depends if they wish to participate tbh.
Majority won't for obvious reasons, which ironically is stopping their freedom of choice...."No, they won’t because they’ll get bashed by others! | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine
Think it depends if they wish to participate tbh.
Majority won't for obvious reasons, which ironically is stopping their freedom of choice....
No, they won’t because they’ll get bashed by others! "I think unvaccinated people on here are by far the minority | |||
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"In Scotland you now can't go to a nightclub or adult entertainment venue unless you are double vaccinated " I was out at the weekend and only asked once to show my vaccination card on entry. It seems a bit more lax than the Scottish government will have you believe. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid!" I won't make any difference at the moment, it's not legislation that the NHS won't treat people who have contracted covid. | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share " You're body your rules. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid!" The obvious retort to this would be - Should they NHS also not treat smokers, the obese, alcoholics, drug addicts etc etc. I won’t get into this however as it was not what the thread was intended for | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid!" Is that scenario likely to happen then? | |||
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"Really don't care if a person is vaccinated or not. People have different reasons to get or not to get vaccinated." Absolutely this. I am vaccinated, but have no issues with those that choose not to. | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine
It’s a forum. Put ‘ladies only’ in the header and the guys still comment.
True and I know they obviously can as no one can be “stopped” as such from doing so but should they?
This section is brimming with pro vaccine posters, would it be nice, as the OP intended for there to be ONE post for those who are unvaccinated to chat without the vaccinated (predictably) hijacking and bashing? Just a thought "Did I bash?  | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share " Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share | |||
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"As predicted, not a thread for those without the vaccine
It’s a forum. Put ‘ladies only’ in the header and the guys still comment.
True and I know they obviously can as no one can be “stopped” as such from doing so but should they?
This section is brimming with pro vaccine posters, would it be nice, as the OP intended for there to be ONE post for those who are unvaccinated to chat without the vaccinated (predictably) hijacking and bashing? Just a thought
Did I bash? "No, not you. | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share "*someone, not simone haha fat fingers | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work " See that's where I think the "it works / doesn't work" discussion is hijacked by personal opinion. What are people's expectations of it "working" or equally "not working"...? Working to stop virus spreading...? Working to stop symptoms and illness? Working to stop hospital admission or working to stop death.? Or perhaps something else? I let the numbers and facts speak for themselves. Take a look at the covid surveillance report and see which of those numbers are better or worse with or without the vaccine. I do tend to agree that certainly in these fora, generally the vax seem to behavr as if they are holier than thou. I don't like the polarisation that is propagated. | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share "Very well said. Not that you should have to explain your choices. Hopefully things will settle down in another year or two and it will become like the flu vaccine... A personal choice that doesn't cause heated debate or prejudiced opinions of strangers. | |||
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"So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work " The choice of the word threat is quite poor tbh Throughout this pandemic every ICU has had within it a myriad of soul crushing stories and for the families and patients there’s a key word, regret. There’s been all sorts, people who’ve broken lock down and brought C-19 home to a family member who hasn’t survived the infection, those who’ve avoided medical care due to fear and importantly now in growing numbers those who reflect on their loss with a simple question, would the vaccine have saved them, their partner, their parents etc. In a position of care you simply treat whoever is in front of you, if it’s a young lad with stab wounds due to his involvement in gang culture it doesn’t make the scenario any less saddening to witness. Likewise when you are treating the unvaccinated you can only have sympathy for the situation and individuals concerned. What I would say is Covid is a horrific way to die should the illness become severe. We know first hand the huge difference in chances of survival when we are treating those carrying the vaccine (who are unfortunate enough to still get infected and require hospitalisation) compared to those who have no defence. I wouldn’t wish that level of regret, sadness or grief on anyone regardless of my own views regarding the individuals stupidity In not getting vaccinated. I fail to connect with people who believe their knowledge outweighs those who’ve dedicated their lives to researching infectious diseases, I can’t understand why someone would make such a selfish choice but likewise it is a choice and as such it needs to be respected and if/when it does backfire… you do your best to pick up the peices. | |||
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"I’m not vaccinated. You’ll get a tonne of posts now telling you you’re a selfish, conspiracy theorist and trying to tell you all of the reasons that you should get the vaccine immediately. Watch this space "This. I’m not vaccinated either. I have absolutely no issues with those who are, nor am I a conspiracy theorist, as I’m all for people getting it if they feel they want to. Plenty family members have and I don’t judge them or love them any less. Far too many people are indoctrinated by the media to think we are all raging hippies against vaccination and here to spread misinformation. I’m not. | |||
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"I’m not vaccinated. You’ll get a tonne of posts now telling you you’re a selfish, conspiracy theorist and trying to tell you all of the reasons that you should get the vaccine immediately. Watch this space "This . | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid!" That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat.. thing is...vax doesn't work " Thing is... Vax does work. | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat.. thing is...vax doesn't work Thing is... Vax does work. " If the Vax doesn’t work… my advice would be seek the help of a floor cleaner repair specialist tbh | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. " There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others | |||
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"My question is what if someone vacinated spreads covid are they selfish and irresponsible as they say that about someone who has not had the jabs. The vacation does not stop you spreading it or catching it. So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat.. thing is...vax doesn't work it's not a vaccine as such it's the same as the flu jab that's not a vaccine. This covid jabs is a trial drug and still not a year old and no long term data on it and the people selling it can't say how long it will give you anti-bodies for or so called protection " Thing is... the many vaccines for Covid are vaccines, despite your trying to spin them as something else. They were experimental during earlier stages, like all new developments are - but they progressed through Stage 3 Clinical Trials, before gaining approval. As vaccines. Whether or not we choose to be vaccinated, the choice is upon 1 of the several vaccines, or not. The freedoms that we have now have been won through restrictions and vaccines. The duration of immunity was enough to get us out of lockdowns etc. If you preferred lockdowns forever, you would be in a minority. | |||
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"I couldn't care less who is vaccinated or not. But I do care about freedom of choice
Me too but the care sector had two choices, get vaccinated or lose your job ... nothing to sign from the government, just two choices !! "Again I totally agree. Unprecedented times have called for unprecedented measures. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others " That’s all well and good if said restriction means complete protection from harm. But having the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting COVID so although restricted access may make some feel more safe and secure it’s not foolproof. Besides, smokers aren’t really “restricted”. They just have to go outside to have their cigarette now and not smoke inside. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others That’s all well and good if said restriction means complete protection from harm. But having the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting COVID so although restricted access may make some feel more safe and secure it’s not foolproof. Besides, smokers aren’t really “restricted”. They just have to go outside to have their cigarette now and not smoke inside. " It reduces transmission and serious illness by about 90%, that’s fairly obvious within the figures between waves. As such the benefits to restrictions are fairly clear. | |||
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" So why would you have it then? It's the vaccinated that see the unvaccinated as a a threat..despite having two / three jabs..if the vaccine works..then unvaccinated are no threat..thing is...vax doesn't work " Because having the vaccine makes you less ill and less likely to die! | |||
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"I couldn't care less if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, it's a personal choice......but I won't lose any sleep if they succumb to the virus as they chose not to have it. You mean if I don't take vaccine and I die .you would be cool with that? You make your choice it’s that simple "100% correct! Don't blame others for your lack of education! | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others That’s all well and good if said restriction means complete protection from harm. But having the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting COVID so although restricted access may make some feel more safe and secure it’s not foolproof. Besides, smokers aren’t really “restricted”. They just have to go outside to have their cigarette now and not smoke inside. It reduces transmission and serious illness by about 90%, that’s fairly obvious within the figures between waves. As such the benefits to restrictions are fairly clear. " Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. " But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!!" It doesn’t work like that though does it? You’re completely dismissing natural immunity. It’s not 90% from the vaccine or zero % without. I’m not getting into it, as I said, it’s not what I believe the OP intended for this thread but knew it wouldn’t be long before people started the bathing, ie calling people “uneducated”. FYI, I have a clinical degree and an advanced clinical post grad masters also. Education doesn’t come into it for many | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! It doesn’t work like that though does it? You’re completely dismissing natural immunity. It’s not 90% from the vaccine or zero % without. I’m not getting into it, as I said, it’s not what I believe the OP intended for this thread but knew it wouldn’t be long before people started the bathing, ie calling people “uneducated”. FYI, I have a clinical degree and an advanced clinical post grad masters also. Education doesn’t come into it for many "*bashing. Fat fingers again | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!!" Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on… | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on… "You’re wasting your breath hun | |||
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"I've not had it. I am one of the few people I know who has declined. My colleagues have all had it and most have had their boosters now. Despite this, 3 of them came down with the bug and it floored them for nearly a week. I haven't had it because no long term safety testing has been done. You cannot produce something in six months which usually takes years and not cut corners. Someone my age according to the CDC has a 99.97% chance of survival without medical treatment. There are effective frontline treatments that have halted death and hospitalisations in many parts of the world without mass vaccination. Countries that have strong vaccine uptake are seeing more cases than ever before. There are serious concerns re antibody dependant enhancement and how the vaccine can actually destroy your natural immune response. Massive censorship of world renown doctors and scientists who don't toe the narrative is a gigantic red flag. No one should be pressured or coerced into a procedure against their will, especially something only granted emergency use authorisation and not full approval. I have nothing against people who make the conscious decision to have it. It's individual choice. What I oppose is the ostracisation and curtailing of freedoms for people who think differently and made a different choice than one parroted 24/7 by the media and people with a stake in the issue." Your colleagues would likely have been much more seriously ill or died, if they'd not had the vaccinations. You don't work in medicine development I assume. The testing can be very similar, in terms of timescales, these vaccines or other meds. It's just that greater resources have allowed these to cut the long periods where ordinarily nothing happens... People sit about waiting to write reports without urgent deadlines... People have to work, campaigning for funding to continue... People work on multiple projects, diluting the actual time spent, as they were typically spent exclusively with covid... People spend months trying to get government approvals to run trials, in each of the many different countries they are run in - approvals for the vaccines were prioritised, etc. In many respects, the testing has been the best, the way we've been so fortunate to have had it done. The volume of people involved has been extraordinary, the amount of collaboration unprecedented. The sheer volume of work and attention invested unmatched in world history. You've never had it so good. And people spent so little time with restrictions, because of the vaccines, helping you to get out again, livelihoods earned again. The vaccines have reduced the impact for us all. Fewer people infected, fewer people seriously ill, fewer people dead. Each one of us, whether jabbed or not, could have been 1 of the less fortunate. Some would have seen unnecessarily long vaccine development times, which would have had tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands more deaths, just in the UK. Jobs and businesses gone to the wall. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun "Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right. Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti. "They never will. It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
"Nobody should be abused. Though every one of us may have been uncertain about being vaccinated, even if the choice has been made to get it. As such, we all do share many things in common - typically wanting the best outcome | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
"Very much this | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
"When this all started twenty months or so ago I saw common ground between people with differing thoughts, all I see now is a no mans land of division,. Those divisions will likely last a long time. | |||
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"Reinfection of Covid 19 extremely low public health England who holds the stats for it have it from may 2020 to end of June 2021 as 53 confirmed reinfected both by pcr test and I think there was 5 and half million cases of Covid up to that period so I had Covid 19 February 2021 and this is the reason I have not had the vaccine on top of that 2 members of my house had Covid in early September this year and I have mixed at indoor concerts over the last 6 to 8 weeks including a festival that made the news as the worst incident for Covid 19 spreading 17000 people got it over the 3 days I do 2 lft test a week for work always clear but each to their own most of my family are jabbed and healthy as anything " I test weekly too. Because I’m unvaccinated, I test religiously to make sure I’m doing what I can | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
When this all started twenty months or so ago I saw common ground between people with differing thoughts, all I see now is a no mans land of division,.
Those divisions will likely last a long time. "Unfortunately probably right due to the nature of the "debate". Now.. Calling people selfish, uneducated, dangerous, stupid and worse doesnt help. Ignoring the numbers as they are changing doesn't help. I do have a question though for those unable to or choosing not to be jabbed? Have you changed your behaviours at all to stay away from people a little bit more? | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
When this all started twenty months or so ago I saw common ground between people with differing thoughts, all I see now is a no mans land of division,.
Those divisions will likely last a long time.
Unfortunately probably right due to the nature of the "debate". Now.. Calling people selfish, uneducated, dangerous, stupid and worse doesnt help. Ignoring the numbers as they are changing doesn't help.
I do have a question though for those unable to or choosing not to be jabbed? Have you changed your behaviours at all to stay away from people a little bit more? "I definitely have. I get my shopping delivered for a start, I test sometimes twice a week, I try not to go to very overly populated places. I don’t meet anymore and I see the same 5 friends as I have throughout | |||
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"l You cannot produce something in six months which usually takes years and not cut corners. " This isn't true. No corners were cut with these vaccines, and this has been debunked repeatedly. A simple Google search will give you many reputable sources and explanations. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
When this all started twenty months or so ago I saw common ground between people with differing thoughts, all I see now is a no mans land of division,.
Those divisions will likely last a long time. "Couldn’t agree more. I’ve always been an open minded person who respects others wishes and the way people have turned in the past two years is crazy. Thankfully none of my family or friends but I’ve seen friends of family and family of friends turn against each other all over this. It’s terrible! It’s like Brexit all over again. | |||
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" Again, that’s not foolproof. It’s not 100% is it? So there’s still a 10% chance just as there’s about a 10% chance non smokers can get lung cancer. Nothing is perfect. But you would be some sort of idiot to take the 10% over the 90%!!!! Really? When I have a 98/99% chance of survival? Come on…
You’re wasting your breath hun
Very true. It would be nice if people could accept that we all have a choice and that’s our right.
Nobody should be called names or insults for exercising their right to choice, pro or anti.
They never will.
It would have been nice if the thread could have remained a conversational thread amongst those of us who haven’t had the vaccine to allow us to discuss our thoughts and reasoning without being ostracised or bashed but as per, it’s turned into the same discussion as every other thread in this section unfortunately.
When this all started twenty months or so ago I saw common ground between people with differing thoughts, all I see now is a no mans land of division,.
Those divisions will likely last a long time.
Unfortunately probably right due to the nature of the "debate". Now.. Calling people selfish, uneducated, dangerous, stupid and worse doesnt help. Ignoring the numbers as they are changing doesn't help.
I do have a question though for those unable to or choosing not to be jabbed? Have you changed your behaviours at all to stay away from people a little bit more? "I can’t say I’ve changed my behaviours in a major way. I work in Social Care and I’ve always been diligent with my PPE and hygiene, sometimes over the top infact, I still am now but I’d say I’ve upped it even more. I have to wear a mask at work. Other than that, if I have to wear a mask I will, I’ll wear one in taxi’s, to the dentist, to the doctors and in hospitals. I don’t tend to wear them in supermarkets. I respect others wishes, if small businesses require masks I’ll wear them. We have been finalising the headstone for my dads he Ave recently and the small business we are using requires masks when you enter, I happily wear one. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others That’s all well and good if said restriction means complete protection from harm. But having the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting COVID so although restricted access may make some feel more safe and secure it’s not foolproof. Besides, smokers aren’t really “restricted”. They just have to go outside to have their cigarette now and not smoke inside. It reduces transmission and serious illness by about 90%, that’s fairly obvious within the figures between waves. As such the benefits to restrictions are fairly clear. " Ok just to be clear I am not having a dig or calling you out (I know it is hard to tell on social media). If what you say is true then that is huge (good news) but I need to ask for your sources for that statement. There is plenty of data on the vaccines providing c.90% protection against developing a serious illness as a result of catching Covid (doesn’t stop you catching but lowers impact). But this is the first time *I* have seen the 90% figure in relation to reducing transmission! Are you sure? How? What source? Everything I have reads shows that we do not have unequivocal evidence. There are contradictory studies in relation to transmission (regardless of common sense saying a reduction in serious illness = reduced viral load = reduced transmission). If that has changed I would welcome knowing that and seeing the source. Thanks | |||
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"Can you expand on "for whatever reasons" and actually explain why you've not had it then? Otherwise there can't be much discussion. For me personally...I've lost members of my family through medical malpractice..so I've been brought up with a general distrust of the medical system " Perceptions are everything. Having not lost members of family because of excellent medical interventions I have a general trust in the medical system. Sorry you have had the opposite experience. | |||
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" For me personally...I've lost members of my family through medical malpractice..so I've been brought up with a general distrust of the medical system You've had more than one family member die as a result of medical malpractice ?" Yes three in total. Thank you for your sympathy | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share "All I can think reading this post is the strict NHS guidelines for clinical staff and how they utterly don’t marry up with your profile pictures. Strange you stated clearly your children wouldn’t be vaccinated a week ago too… What’s your clinical role in the NHS? | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share
All I can think reading this post is the strict NHS guidelines for clinical staff and how they utterly don’t marry up with your profile pictures.
Strange you stated clearly your children wouldn’t be vaccinated a week ago too…
What’s your clinical role in the NHS? "My children are fully vaccinated. They are not having the Covid vaccine. I’m not telling you or anyone my role. There are lots of nhs staff on here - many! Aren’t you NHS? Do you have photos on your profile of a sexual nature? Mine are ALL me on holiday, on a beach, in a bikini! Nothing wrong with that. You comment quite frequently aimed at me don’t you? Not quite sure what your issue is but can I suggest that we don’t comment in regards to each other from now on? Cheers | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share
All I can think reading this post is the strict NHS guidelines for clinical staff and how they utterly don’t marry up with your profile pictures.
Strange you stated clearly your children wouldn’t be vaccinated a week ago too…
What’s your clinical role in the NHS?
My children are fully vaccinated. They are not having the Covid vaccine.
I’m not telling you or anyone my role.
There are lots of nhs staff on here - many!
Aren’t you NHS? Do you have photos on your profile of a sexual nature? Mine are ALL me on holiday, on a beach, in a bikini! Nothing wrong with that.
You comment quite frequently aimed at me don’t you? Not quite sure what your issue is but can I suggest that we don’t comment in regards to each other from now on?
Cheers "I think any NHS on here will know what I’m talking about, they can take their own view | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share
All I can think reading this post is the strict NHS guidelines for clinical staff and how they utterly don’t marry up with your profile pictures.
Strange you stated clearly your children wouldn’t be vaccinated a week ago too…
What’s your clinical role in the NHS?
My children are fully vaccinated. They are not having the Covid vaccine.
I’m not telling you or anyone my role.
There are lots of nhs staff on here - many!
Aren’t you NHS? Do you have photos on your profile of a sexual nature? Mine are ALL me on holiday, on a beach, in a bikini! Nothing wrong with that.
You comment quite frequently aimed at me don’t you? Not quite sure what your issue is but can I suggest that we don’t comment in regards to each other from now on?
Cheers
I think any NHS on here will know what I’m talking about, they can take their own view "Please do tell? You clearly have an issue with me as you pick up on my comments all the time? What is your issue? | |||
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"Really don't care if a person is vaccinated or not. People have different reasons to get or not to get vaccinated. Absolutely this. I am vaccinated, but have no issues with those that choose not to." Me too..... But can understand if they're reluctant to share their reasons for not choosing the vaccine! Obviously both sides can't learn something from each other and DISCUSS! | |||
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"I can think of no other medical procedure strangers feel empowered to ask about. Had a vasectomy 2 good? Had rhinoplasty 2 good, got a bunnion, had your tetanus jab.. flu jab ?. a few weeks ago no one would have asked / enquired or bothered. Bring back the good old days where the first question would normally have been f.a.f " Oh I’ve been called out for having cosmetic procedures but won’t have the vaccine! Wtf??? | |||
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"Sorry about that, the thread was kinda derailed a bit. Is there anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine through fear (like me, fear of side effects or allergy response) but would like to have it? I’m in a strange camp where I would like to have it and have the reported benefits of it but I’m petrified of my own response to it due to my medical history. I’ve had numberous conversations with medics to try to quell my fear but so far, because they haven’t been that confident themselves (with regards to my medical history) they haven’t really helped. Anyone else in that kind of boat? " I haven't had it because I have serious concerns re safety and efficacy. This is not based on hearsay or 'feelings' but rather on real world data and testimony of competent and qualified doctors and scientists who have brought up serious concerns at great risk to their personal safety and professional livelihood when they had no incentive for doing so. I've compiled dozens of peer reviewed papers from a number of publications that have my alarm bells ringing. The people with concerns make a more compelling argument based on verifiable data than the ones relentlessly pushing vaccine compliance 24/7. The issue is anyone who presents valid concerns to hold off on getting jabbed is immediately lumped into an anti-vaxx / anti-science category when this is simply not the case. Debate is never settled in science and yet, to hear the mainstream media tell it, it's as if it never existed with regards to this issue. | |||
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"I can think of no other medical procedure strangers feel empowered to ask about. Had a vasectomy 2 good? Had rhinoplasty 2 good, got a bunnion, had your tetanus jab.. flu jab ?. a few weeks ago no one would have asked / enquired or bothered. Bring back the good old days where the first question would normally have been f.a.f Oh I’ve been called out for having cosmetic procedures but won’t have the vaccine! Wtf??? " I chickened out of bunion surgery..oh crap now I've shared tbat some might feel they can ask more. 
Unless they're wisperinv sweet nothings in my ear my opinion its none of their business.
Anyone f.a.f ? | |||
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"Sorry about that, the thread was kinda derailed a bit. Is there anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine through fear (like me, fear of side effects or allergy response) but would like to have it? I’m in a strange camp where I would like to have it and have the reported benefits of it but I’m petrified of my own response to it due to my medical history. I’ve had numberous conversations with medics to try to quell my fear but so far, because they haven’t been that confident themselves (with regards to my medical history) they haven’t really helped. Anyone else in that kind of boat? I haven't had it because I have serious concerns re safety and efficacy. This is not based on hearsay or 'feelings' but rather on real world data and testimony of competent and qualified doctors and scientists who have brought up serious concerns at great risk to their personal safety and professional livelihood when they had no incentive for doing so. I've compiled dozens of peer reviewed papers from a number of publications that have my alarm bells ringing. The people with concerns make a more compelling argument based on verifiable data than the ones relentlessly pushing vaccine compliance 24/7. The issue is anyone who presents valid concerns to hold off on getting jabbed is immediately lumped into an anti-vaxx / anti-science category when this is simply not the case. Debate is never settled in science and yet, to hear the mainstream media tell it, it's as if it never existed with regards to this issue." That’s true. Everyone gets tarred with the same brush - often by complete strangers! It’s sad. It’s hard not to be concerned about side effects but I am that scared of Covid that I think had it not been for my general health issues and the mixed messages (particularly at the beginning), I would have had it. | |||
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"I can think of no other medical procedure strangers feel empowered to ask about. Had a vasectomy 2 good? Had rhinoplasty 2 good, got a bunnion, had your tetanus jab.. flu jab ?. a few weeks ago no one would have asked / enquired or bothered. Bring back the good old days where the first question would normally have been f.a.f Oh I’ve been called out for having cosmetic procedures but won’t have the vaccine! Wtf??? I chickened out of bunion surgery..oh crap now I've shared tbat some might feel they can ask more.
Unless they're wisperinv sweet nothings in my ear my opinion its none of their business.
Anyone f.a.f ?"Bunion surgery looks painful af to be fair! I’d chicken out too! | |||
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"I'm wary of creating yet more division. A 'us and them' if you will. Surely we're all on this chunk of rock together and we can all strive to get along. Sure, we can have adult sane, sober, moral discussions and debates. If we can't then there really is no hope. But the main point I'd raise - as seen by some of the responses already to this post - is that its seen as simply a choice. You either choose to get vaccinated or you choose not to. As in Yes/No. A narrative that - extremely worryingly - seems to be endorsed by many political leaders and backed up by the media. You see the actual reality - that seems to get overlooked for some reason - is that some people don't have a choice. They, for a myriad of reasons, can't have the vaccine. Yet they seem to get automatically lumped into the 'chose not to be vaccinated' camp. So let's have open discussions and everyone might, just might be tad more understanding of a situation that is more complex than a simple Yes/No. " Exactly this! thank you for wording it better than I could ever have done | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share "Thanks for sharing this. I’m always looking to understand why people are not vaccinated. I felt so poorly after my third jab last week - I’m so grateful I’ve not had the virus and really suffered. I also work for the NHS and like to think Im open minded - nothing is black and white. Keep well X | |||
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"In Scotland you now can't go to a nightclub or adult entertainment venue unless you are double vaccinated I was out at the weekend and only asked once to show my vaccination card on entry. It seems a bit more lax than the Scottish government will have you believe. " I was under the impression that because of the NHS passport screw up that it wasn't becoming mandatory until today. We were at the O2 last week and it even said on the website that you needed proof of vaccination. Never got asked though | |||
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"This thread should be taken down as spreading the usual anti vax propaganda. On a serious note I've had a friend who didn't have the vaccine she's just come out of hospital after having covid and pneumonia. 6 people on her ward died. " I'll put a £10 note in a charity box of your choice if you posted 'anti vax' about folk who chose not to have the flu jab, a disease that kills many 100's of thousands yearly.  | |||
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"Not vaccinated ! Because I don't trust the government !" Agreed...RIP Dr David Kelly. | |||
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" I'll put a £10 note in a charity box of your choice if you posted 'anti vax' about folk who chose not to have the flu jab, a disease that kills many 100's of thousands yearly. "Comparing a disease we didn't know how to treat 6-12 months ago, with a disease we've been treating for 100s of years is a bit mad. The crux of all the restrictions etc is purely hospitalisations. Hospitalisations are a concern more with covid than the flu, because we can't treat it as well as we can the flu. Madness this continues to be something people don't understand. The death rate isn't what has led to restrictions or the push (via the media or the public) for vaccine uptake. When you compare those two things it just, well, shows you don't understand what is happening. | |||
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"I think that pro-lockdown/vaccine people are being whipped up into a state of hate. I forecast violence" Considering antivaxers have burned down buildings, attacked police, attacked nurses, attack the general public, and there are zero evidence of pro vaccine people doing the same, how you have come to that assumption is pretty mind blowing. But let me guess, you think Bill Gates made covid and the vaccine because he wants to help push the great reset? | |||
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"People who act like children on Facebook or on here going around bragging they been double jabbed ...makes no difference to us in fact we are more likely to not meet vaxers" Tbh, I don't ask, people have their own reasons (usually fucking stupid) for not wanting a vaccine. Everybody should be allowed to make their own choices about their body. It's an absolute freedom that I would fight for, that said I think it's absolutely fucking stupid! If you wonder why it is "stupid" Google "Herman Cain award" that is why I think it's stupid. Antivax folk dying from covid is the new Darwin awards. | |||
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"I think that pro-lockdown/vaccine people are being whipped up into a state of hate. I forecast violence Considering antivaxers have burned down buildings, attacked police, attacked nurses, attack the general public, and there are zero evidence of pro vaccine people doing the same, how you have come to that assumption is pretty mind blowing. But let me guess, you think Bill Gates made covid and the vaccine because he wants to help push the great reset?" First mention of Bill Gates and it wasn’t an “antivaxxer”. Good one. | |||
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"It makes absolutely no difference to anyone else if a person has the vaccine or not! You can catch and pass on regardless! (Which some still don't get!) We should be able to choose what goes in our bodies. There are also so many flaws in how covid has and is being dealt with. My friend went to a concert yesterday. She was asked if she was vaccinated.. nobody in front of her was asked! She felt bad but yes she lied and said yes, no proof requested! She lied because she is sick of the barrage of abuse from people spouting utter crap about why she should!! They don't even know why.. and to be honest it's nobody else's business!! Do we ask if we are vaccinated against anything else? No! The only thing that did make me think was if an unvaccinated person gets covid, yes there is more chance they may need hospital care, but over a 97% chance they will survive by the way! Therefore yes, potentially taking up resources that could be used for others ie cancer patients etc. This is a very emotive subject and there will always be cornflake packet, keyboard scientists who think they know it all! There will always be someone who thinks they know better! Be true to yourself lovely people.. you don't have to justify or answer to anyone! "That's the truth...well said. | |||
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"I think that pro-lockdown/vaccine people are being whipped up into a state of hate. I forecast violence Considering antivaxers have burned down buildings, attacked police, attacked nurses, attack the general public, and there are zero evidence of pro vaccine people doing the same, how you have come to that assumption is pretty mind blowing. But let me guess, you think Bill Gates made covid and the vaccine because he wants to help push the great reset?" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. | |||
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"It makes absolutely no difference to anyone else if a person has the vaccine or not! You can catch and pass on regardless!" The fact you believe that is utterly insane to me. How do people still, nearly 2 years into this not understand how vaccines work and why we have them? It's not even fucking complex stuff. | |||
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"I wonder if those that choose not to be vaccinated would do the same if they knew the NHS wouldn’t treat them if they contracted Covid! That same question could be posed to smokers, obese people, alcoholics, drug users & drivers. All the above being a choice too. There’s no argument to restrict access to healthcare. The logical precedent is to compare ‘smoking’ and restrict access to certain locations to minimise impact and harm caused to others That’s all well and good if said restriction means complete protection from harm. But having the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting COVID so although restricted access may make some feel more safe and secure it’s not foolproof. Besides, smokers aren’t really “restricted”. They just have to go outside to have their cigarette now and not smoke inside. It reduces transmission and serious illness by about 90%, that’s fairly obvious within the figures between waves. As such the benefits to restrictions are fairly clear. Ok just to be clear I am not having a dig or calling you out (I know it is hard to tell on social media). If what you say is true then that is huge (good news) but I need to ask for your sources for that statement. There is plenty of data on the vaccines providing c.90% protection against developing a serious illness as a result of catching Covid (doesn’t stop you catching but lowers impact). But this is the first time *I* have seen the 90% figure in relation to reducing transmission! Are you sure? How? What source? Everything I have reads shows that we do not have unequivocal evidence. There are contradictory studies in relation to transmission (regardless of common sense saying a reduction in serious illness = reduced viral load = reduced transmission). If that has changed I would welcome knowing that and seeing the source. Thanks " Hey CHARLI GRACE Sure you missed this buried in this long thread but I am really keen to see you reply. Thanks | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Thanks for the thread OP, nice for those who haven’t been vaccinated to have somewhere to chat without being lambasted. I’m an NHS clinician and therefore have had more vaccines than hot dinners! My children are all fully vaccinated too so I’m in no way anti vax. I suffer from life threatening anaphylaxis and carry an epi pen. In the beginning, when my colleagues started to get their vaccines, I was told absolutely nit, it wasn’t safe. Some months later, the stance changed slightly to - “you MIGHT be ok to have it” and is currently “you SHOULD be ok, we will stand by with Adrenalin”! So needless to say, my confidence is zero and my anxiety around the vaccine is high. I have had Covid and was part of an antibody study. This gave me some comfort, to know I had antibodies. They lasted for just over 7 months. I also have a huge fear of Covid. It’s an awful place to be. Petrified of Covid and petrified of the vaccine. I live my life and try to just be as safe as I can. I’m so angry and frustrated to be lumped in as an “anti vaxxer” or conspiracy theorist. A lot of vaccinated people don’t consider the human struggles behind some peoples reasoning for not having it but I’m at the point now where I’m starting to not care what they think of me. I’ve even had Simone bringing up the fact that I have cosmetic procedures ffs! They try to make you feel guilty but it goes over my head now. I fight with this in my head daily and they haven’t a clue! Anyway, nice thread OP, thank you for giving me (hopefully) a safe place to share
All I can think reading this post is the strict NHS guidelines for clinical staff and how they utterly don’t marry up with your profile pictures.
Strange you stated clearly your children wouldn’t be vaccinated a week ago too…
What’s your clinical role in the NHS?
My children are fully vaccinated. They are not having the Covid vaccine.
I’m not telling you or anyone my role.
There are lots of nhs staff on here - many!
Aren’t you NHS? Do you have photos on your profile of a sexual nature? Mine are ALL me on holiday, on a beach, in a bikini! Nothing wrong with that.
You comment quite frequently aimed at me don’t you? Not quite sure what your issue is but can I suggest that we don’t comment in regards to each other from now on?
Cheers
I think any NHS on here will know what I’m talking about, they can take their own view
Please do tell? You clearly have an issue with me as you pick up on my comments all the time? What is your issue? "No issue, I just don’t think you’re actually being very truthful on here. | |||
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" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. " My guess is your probably posted something about vaccines, so when you do that you're gonna get some negative. Try simply being brown on social media, jesus. Don't even have to say anything then. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/anti-vaxxer-attacks-nhs-covid-london-health-staff-b943392.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-police-warn-armed-attacks-by-anti-vaxxers-2021-09-09/ There are more, just Google it, "antivax violence". Precovid the antivax were burning down 5G towers. Much of the MAGA folk are antivax as well, and they tried to overthrow their government violently driven by covid and lies about the election being stolen. It's all cult behaviour. | |||
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"I've not had it. I am one of the few people I know who has declined. My colleagues have all had it and most have had their boosters now. Despite this, 3 of them came down with the bug and it floored them for nearly a week. I haven't had it because no long term safety testing has been done. You cannot produce something in six months which usually takes years and not cut corners. Someone my age according to the CDC has a 99.97% chance of survival without medical treatment. There are effective frontline treatments that have halted death and hospitalisations in many parts of the world without mass vaccination. Countries that have strong vaccine uptake are seeing more cases than ever before. There are serious concerns re antibody dependant enhancement and how the vaccine can actually destroy your natural immune response. Massive censorship of world renown doctors and scientists who don't toe the narrative is a gigantic red flag. No one should be pressured or coerced into a procedure against their will, especially something only granted emergency use authorisation and not full approval. I have nothing against people who make the conscious decision to have it. It's individual choice. What I oppose is the ostracisation and curtailing of freedoms for people who think differently and made a different choice than one parroted 24/7 by the media and people with a stake in the issue. Your colleagues would likely have been much more seriously ill or died, if they'd not had the vaccinations. You don't work in medicine development I assume. The testing can be very similar, in terms of timescales, these vaccines or other meds. It's just that greater resources have allowed these to cut the long periods where ordinarily nothing happens... People sit about waiting to write reports without urgent deadlines... People have to work, campaigning for funding to continue... People work on multiple projects, diluting the actual time spent, as they were typically spent exclusively with covid... People spend months trying to get government approvals to run trials, in each of the many different countries they are run in - approvals for the vaccines were prioritised, etc. In many respects, the testing has been the best, the way we've been so fortunate to have had it done. The volume of people involved has been extraordinary, the amount of collaboration unprecedented. The sheer volume of work and attention invested unmatched in world history. You've never had it so good. And people spent so little time with restrictions, because of the vaccines, helping you to get out again, livelihoods earned again. The vaccines have reduced the impact for us all. Fewer people infected, fewer people seriously ill, fewer people dead. Each one of us, whether jabbed or not, could have been 1 of the less fortunate. Some would have seen unnecessarily long vaccine development times, which would have had tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands more deaths, just in the UK. Jobs and businesses gone to the wall. " | |||
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" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. My guess is your probably posted something about vaccines, so when you do that you're gonna get some negative. Try simply being brown on social media, jesus. Don't even have to say anything then. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/anti-vaxxer-attacks-nhs-covid-london-health-staff-b943392.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-police-warn-armed-attacks-by-anti-vaxxers-2021-09-09/ There are more, just Google it, "antivax violence". Precovid the antivax were burning down 5G towers. Much of the MAGA folk are antivax as well, and they tried to overthrow their government violently driven by covid and lies about the election being stolen. It's all cult behaviour." Erm. I am brown… or black if you will. So I know all about abuse online. I don’t think replying to a post about vaccines with an opinion (one that wasn’t anti vaxx by the way) warrants abuse. Thanks for the links, I wasn’t aware of any of this. Still, there are pretty nasty vaccinated people too. Like the one who messaged me on here who claimed to “support BLM and all that” but was “disgusted” that “blacks” had the lowest vaccine take up. Bearing in mind, I had only posted on a thread and received such message. Interesting stance. | |||
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"l You cannot produce something in six months which usually takes years and not cut corners. This isn't true. No corners were cut with these vaccines, and this has been debunked repeatedly. A simple Google search will give you many reputable sources and explanations. " | |||
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" I'll put a £10 note in a charity box of your choice if you posted 'anti vax' about folk who chose not to have the flu jab, a disease that kills many 100's of thousands yearly.
Comparing a disease we didn't know how to treat 6-12 months ago, with a disease we've been treating for 100s of years is a bit mad.
The crux of all the restrictions etc is purely hospitalisations. Hospitalisations are a concern more with covid than the flu, because we can't treat it as well as we can the flu.
Madness this continues to be something people don't understand.
The death rate isn't what has led to restrictions or the push (via the media or the public) for vaccine uptake.
When you compare those two things it just, well, shows you don't understand what is happening.
"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. | |||
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" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. My guess is your probably posted something about vaccines, so when you do that you're gonna get some negative. Try simply being brown on social media, jesus. Don't even have to say anything then. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/anti-vaxxer-attacks-nhs-covid-london-health-staff-b943392.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-police-warn-armed-attacks-by-anti-vaxxers-2021-09-09/ There are more, just Google it, "antivax violence". Precovid the antivax were burning down 5G towers. Much of the MAGA folk are antivax as well, and they tried to overthrow their government violently driven by covid and lies about the election being stolen. It's all cult behaviour. Erm. I am brown… or black if you will. So I know all about abuse online. I don’t think replying to a post about vaccines with an opinion (one that wasn’t anti vaxx by the way) warrants abuse. Thanks for the links, I wasn’t aware of any of this. Still, there are pretty nasty vaccinated people too. Like the one who messaged me on here who claimed to “support BLM and all that” but was “disgusted” that “blacks” had the lowest vaccine take up. Bearing in mind, I had only posted on a thread and received such message. Interesting stance. " I'm not saying you are or aren't, I'm just saying if you think it's hard only not being pro vaccine, just try being brown. Whether you are or aren't, doesn't change my point. The internet or social media specifically, is a horrible place. The doctor's and nurses facing abuse every single day, violent abuse, are starting to walk from the job. Honestly I don't blame them, the absolutely hatred spread by antivaxers is absolutely vile. Stories of doctors accepting money to say people have died of covid etc. This hateful shit is going too far. Google it, antivaxers pretend their kind and thoughtful people, but I haven't met one yet who doesn't shove their opinions about the dangers of vaccination down your throat daily (especially via social media posts). They make the worse vegans look like saints. If you post memes about how bad (or good) vaccination is, you are part of the problem dividing society. Both sides are just as bad, I can't emphasize that enough, the pro vaccine and the antivaxers, fuck them all the world would be a better place without any of them. I support vaccination as much as I support a person's right NOT to take the vaccine. | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. " You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening. | |||
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"In Scotland you now can't go to a nightclub or adult entertainment venue unless you are double vaccinated I was out at the weekend and only asked once to show my vaccination card on entry. It seems a bit more lax than the Scottish government will have you believe. " the previous weeks where a trial, it comes into full effect today. | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening." unfortuneatly, the most confused appear to be those in power. Wear a mask, dont wear a mask and on and on | |||
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"Unfortuneatly, the most confused appear to be those in power. Wear a mask, dont wear a mask and on and on" They're just reacting, scrambling. Just wear a mask if your asked, it's really not that big a deal. Honestly, I don't understand all the anger about masks, people relating it to the Nazis etc. Hysterical child like reaction. | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening." Did anyone ever get polio after having the polio vaccine...just asking. | |||
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"Did anyone ever get polio after having the polio vaccine...just asking." Yes of course??! | |||
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"In Scotland you now can't go to a nightclub or adult entertainment venue unless you are double vaccinated " And not limited to, a double vaccination, of course. In addition, negative LFT and natural immunity are other formalities for access not to mention a covid pass being made available to unvaccinated folks protected under the equalities act 2010. On the whole, a rather pointless exercise. | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening. Did anyone ever get polio after having the polio vaccine...just asking." Yes https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/polio/#:~:text=Infected%20people%20who%20don't,version%20of%20the%20polio%20virus. | |||
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"Did anyone ever get polio after having the polio vaccine...just asking." Here is an example: https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/smallpox-two-boys I've said it before on this forum, but I honestly don't believe people who are antivax tend to understand how vaccines work. | |||
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" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. My guess is your probably posted something about vaccines, so when you do that you're gonna get some negative. Try simply being brown on social media, jesus. Don't even have to say anything then. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/anti-vaxxer-attacks-nhs-covid-london-health-staff-b943392.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-police-warn-armed-attacks-by-anti-vaxxers-2021-09-09/ There are more, just Google it, "antivax violence". Precovid the antivax were burning down 5G towers. Much of the MAGA folk are antivax as well, and they tried to overthrow their government violently driven by covid and lies about the election being stolen. It's all cult behaviour. Erm. I am brown… or black if you will. So I know all about abuse online. I don’t think replying to a post about vaccines with an opinion (one that wasn’t anti vaxx by the way) warrants abuse. Thanks for the links, I wasn’t aware of any of this. Still, there are pretty nasty vaccinated people too. Like the one who messaged me on here who claimed to “support BLM and all that” but was “disgusted” that “blacks” had the lowest vaccine take up. Bearing in mind, I had only posted on a thread and received such message. Interesting stance. I'm not saying you are or aren't, I'm just saying if you think it's hard only not being pro vaccine, just try being brown. Whether you are or aren't, doesn't change my point. The internet or social media specifically, is a horrible place. The doctor's and nurses facing abuse every single day, violent abuse, are starting to walk from the job. Honestly I don't blame them, the absolutely hatred spread by antivaxers is absolutely vile. Stories of doctors accepting money to say people have died of covid etc. This hateful shit is going too far. Google it, antivaxers pretend their kind and thoughtful people, but I haven't met one yet who doesn't shove their opinions about the dangers of vaccination down your throat daily (especially via social media posts). They make the worse vegans look like saints. If you post memes about how bad (or good) vaccination is, you are part of the problem dividing society. Both sides are just as bad, I can't emphasize that enough, the pro vaccine and the antivaxers, fuck them all the world would be a better place without any of them. I support vaccination as much as I support a person's right NOT to take the vaccine." But colour was irrelevant to what I said… You almost used it as a justification. In one breath you say both are bad but in the next breath you’re saying “anti vaxxers” are worse and that pro vaxxers aren’t doing XYZ. So which one is it? I think anyone who thinks their opinion is above anyone else’s and thinks people shouldn’t have a choice are bad, regardless of if they’re pro or anti. | |||
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"Unfortuneatly, the most confused appear to be those in power. Wear a mask, dont wear a mask and on and on They're just reacting, scrambling. Just wear a mask if your asked, it's really not that big a deal. Honestly, I don't understand all the anger about masks, people relating it to the Nazis etc. Hysterical child like reaction." No issue wearing masks, just have issie with those in power Scrabling as you put it. Just be honest, we dont know, so we suggest X or Y. they always pretend they have all the answers, when its obvious they dont. | |||
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" But colour was irrelevant to what I said…" It was an example of a group that gets more abuse that being antivax...how are you not understanding this?! " You almost used it as a justification." Justification for what?! What are you in about?! " In one breath you say both are bad but in the next breath you’re saying “anti vaxxers” are worse and that pro vaxxers aren’t doing XYZ. So which one is it?" They can both be bad, while one is worse? "I think anyone who thinks their opinion is above anyone else’s and thinks people shouldn’t have a choice are bad, regardless of if they’re pro or anti. " Agreed. I will always speak my mind but my opinion is no valuable than anybody else's. | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share " Hey op, how’s your safe haven for those yet vaccinated going? | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening." Im not missing the point.. I'm making the point that use of the term anti vax is only used about this jab. previously I doubt anyone used the term for people who didn't have a particular jab flu or other. Chances are those who have chosen to wait or not have this are very likely to have had jabs before, Those who are " anti vax " will have had none. | |||
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"Not mad..both respiratory diseases both with jabs that can reducee symptoms rather than prevent disease we have a jab for flu many people chose not to take it.. doubt any one shouted anti vax at them .. So theres no reason to say it about this.. Those who chose not to have this.. I'll wager vast majority that have chosen to wait have had others jabs prior..so by definition they're not anti. You're still missing the point. Vaccination isn't treatment. You are comparing a disease we have treated for decades, a century, with something we're still developing treatments for, they're not the same. The biggest problem with covid is comprehension. Everybody has an opinion, very few understand what is happening. Im not missing the point.. I'm making the point that use of the term anti vax is only used about this jab. previously I doubt anyone used the term for people who didn't have a particular jab flu or other. Chances are those who have chosen to wait or not have this are very likely to have had jabs before, Those who are " anti vax " will have had none. " Exactly this. How are people not understanding it? One can’t possibly be anti vaxx if they’ve had a bunch of vaccines.
This is the problem with labelling people you don’t know. | |||
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"It makes absolutely no difference to anyone else if a person has the vaccine or not! You can catch and pass on regardless! The fact you believe that is utterly insane to me. How do people still, nearly 2 years into this not understand how vaccines work and why we have them? It's not even fucking complex stuff." Errr are you of the impression that the vaccine prevents you from catching it or passing it to someone else? | |||
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" When did anti vaxxers do the above? I don’t recall reading about any of that sort of stuff feel free to provide some links, genuinely interested. I will say though, I’ve not had abuse from an unvaccinated person yet, I have plenty vaccinated people though. I was told I’m a walking murderer by someone on Instagram when I mentioned I hadn’t been vaccinated. My guess is your probably posted something about vaccines, so when you do that you're gonna get some negative. Try simply being brown on social media, jesus. Don't even have to say anything then. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/anti-vaxxer-attacks-nhs-covid-london-health-staff-b943392.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-police-warn-armed-attacks-by-anti-vaxxers-2021-09-09/ There are more, just Google it, "antivax violence". Precovid the antivax were burning down 5G towers. Much of the MAGA folk are antivax as well, and they tried to overthrow their government violently driven by covid and lies about the election being stolen. It's all cult behaviour. Erm. I am brown… or black if you will. So I know all about abuse online. I don’t think replying to a post about vaccines with an opinion (one that wasn’t anti vaxx by the way) warrants abuse. Thanks for the links, I wasn’t aware of any of this. Still, there are pretty nasty vaccinated people too. Like the one who messaged me on here who claimed to “support BLM and all that” but was “disgusted” that “blacks” had the lowest vaccine take up. Bearing in mind, I had only posted on a thread and received such message. Interesting stance. I'm not saying you are or aren't, I'm just saying if you think it's hard only not being pro vaccine, just try being brown. Whether you are or aren't, doesn't change my point. The internet or social media specifically, is a horrible place. The doctor's and nurses facing abuse every single day, violent abuse, are starting to walk from the job. Honestly I don't blame them, the absolutely hatred spread by antivaxers is absolutely vile. Stories of doctors accepting money to say people have died of covid etc. This hateful shit is going too far. Google it, antivaxers pretend their kind and thoughtful people, but I haven't met one yet who doesn't shove their opinions about the dangers of vaccination down your throat daily (especially via social media posts). They make the worse vegans look like saints. If you post memes about how bad (or good) vaccination is, you are part of the problem dividing society. Both sides are just as bad, I can't emphasize that enough, the pro vaccine and the antivaxers, fuck them all the world would be a better place without any of them. I support vaccination as much as I support a person's right NOT to take the vaccine." well said | |||
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"In Scotland you now can't go to a nightclub or adult entertainment venue unless you are double vaccinated And not limited to, a double vaccination, of course. In addition, negative LFT and natural immunity are other formalities for access not to mention a covid pass being made available to unvaccinated folks protected under the equalities act 2010. On the whole, a rather pointless exercise." Totally incorrect. It is limited to double vaccination in Scotland. In Wales it has the test option. | |||
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" I'll put a £10 note in a charity box of your choice if you posted 'anti vax' about folk who chose not to have the flu jab, a disease that kills many 100's of thousands yearly.
Comparing a disease we didn't know how to treat 6-12 months ago, with a disease we've been treating for 100s of years is a bit mad.
The crux of all the restrictions etc is purely hospitalisations. Hospitalisations are a concern more with covid than the flu, because we can't treat it as well as we can the flu.
Madness this continues to be something people don't understand.
The death rate isn't what has led to restrictions or the push (via the media or the public) for vaccine uptake.
When you compare those two things it just, well, shows you don't understand what is happening.
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"You are missing the point, because it's you who compared to things that aren't equal, and I still don't think you understand why they're not equal. You're not alone, the flu comparison is a popular one, it's useful because immediately it let's people know the person has no fucking clue what they're talking about. If people are coming people who have other vaccines, antivax for not trust the covid vaccine, those people are idiots. Militant pro vaccine is as bad as militant antivaccine." Its the label, labelling I have issue with..its only recently been used by the masses likely media driven. yourself and the gent I originally quoted only use anti vax about the cv19 jab. I get ya. You have a fab evening. | |||
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"It makes absolutely no difference to anyone else if a person has the vaccine or not! You can catch and pass on regardless! The fact you believe that is utterly insane to me. How do people still, nearly 2 years into this not understand how vaccines work and why we have them? It's not even fucking complex stuff. Errr are you of the impression that the vaccine prevents you from catching it or passing it to someone else? " Nope, and no vaccine in history has ever done that. That's why I don't understand why anybody would use that as a measure. It just tells me the person saying that doesn't understand vaccines. Here is a good example with polio: https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/smallpox-two-boys The key with ALL the restrictions related to covid, whether it's lockdown or vaccine passports, is hospitalisations. Pretty much nothing else, so when people talk about death rate or talk about "you can still catch it if you have the vaccine" they're only displaying their own ignorance in huge shining neon letters. | |||
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"You have a fab evening. "You too mate, take care, good luck fabbing | |||
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"For those that haven't yet...for whatever reasons..a place to come together and share Hey op, how’s your safe haven for those yet vaccinated going? " Lol | |||
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thanks for asking. I wonder if you set up a thread for those with small dicks would loads of guys with big dicks invade the thread and abuse guys with smaller dicks? | |||
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"Yes going great thanks for asking. I wonder if you set up a thread for those with small dicks would loads of guys with big dicks invade the thread and abuse guys with smaller dicks?"Probably! | |||
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"Yes going great thanks for asking. I wonder if you set up a thread for those with small dicks would loads of guys with big dicks invade the thread and abuse guys with smaller dicks?"Has there been any abuse in this thread? It should be reported, if so. | |||
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"Yes going great thanks for asking. I wonder if you set up a thread for those with small dicks would loads of guys with big dicks invade the thread and abuse guys with smaller dicks?"Something tells me they wouldn’t. | |||
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"The phrase anti-vaxxer is very poor as it is intended to suggest that people are loopy. In fact, very, very few people are anti-vaccine per se. Very many people are sceptical of these current vaccines and the entire lockdown response and panic" The word isn't the problem, if you are anti vaccination, you're an antivaxer. If you're not against ALL vaccines, then you're not an antivaxer. If somebody calls you that, and you're not ignore them. | |||
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"Actually you’re missing a massive point yourself, when the vaccines were first on offer the public was inundated with government and media driven messages that it DID prevent transmission..." Nope, they said "reduce transmission" not "prevent transmission". Google it. They couldn't say prevent, because it's a vaccine not a cure. | |||
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