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"Is, it improving or getting worse in hospitals. Stats, confusing Cases, up deaths, up but hospital slightly down does anyone know what's, really going on " It depends on whether you are looking at daily figures or the overall trend. Daily figures can be impacted by spurious results, it's better to compare similar days over a few weeks. For example 28th September = 167 deaths 21st September = 203 deaths So on comparable days its down week on week. But really you need to go back several weeks to get the over all trend of up or down or stable. A few either way does not really indicate much in the way of trends. | |||
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"Do you think we are any where the end or normal" No chance! It’ll never end. The sooner folk realise this the better. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. " We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us." Yep. Very few masks, people piling into shopping centres and thousands in footy grounds. There’s going to be a big backlash if and when further restrictions come during the winter. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us." Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic." They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter." How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding  | |||
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"Is, it improving or getting worse in hospitals. Stats, confusing Cases, up deaths, up but hospital slightly down does anyone know what's, really going on " Stats seem to be on the increase. Most people on my commute into work around London, are not considerate of others i.e no face masks, etc… everyone’s seems to be lapsed to bound to be an increase | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding "Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter." If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding "Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter." The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts."How do you know the government will bring in another lockdown? Do you really think - given that this government has criminalised protest (permanently, not Covid laws), is already in violation of the Human Rights Act not letting prisoners vote, and has a new Lord Chancellor who has openly called for the abolition of the Human Rights Act - that people breaking the law (even laws you find repugnant) is advisable for people wanting to retain their freedom? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts.
How do you know the government will bring in another lockdown?
Do you really think - given that this government has criminalised protest (permanently, not Covid laws), is already in violation of the Human Rights Act not letting prisoners vote, and has a new Lord Chancellor who has openly called for the abolition of the Human Rights Act - that people breaking the law (even laws you find repugnant) is advisable for people wanting to retain their freedom?"I think there’ll be further restrictions because that’s the pattern. A few weeks to flatten the curve. Lose November to save Xmas. Lose Xmas to save Easter. 15M jabs for freedom. See the pattern? They’re full of shit. I think people will do what they want to do. Birmingham was absolutely heaving with traffic and people visiting others etc during jan to March. A lot of folk had had enough. | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why" That’s life. People die! Lol. | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why That’s life. People die! Lol." Well strictly that's death. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts.
How do you know the government will bring in another lockdown?
Do you really think - given that this government has criminalised protest (permanently, not Covid laws), is already in violation of the Human Rights Act not letting prisoners vote, and has a new Lord Chancellor who has openly called for the abolition of the Human Rights Act - that people breaking the law (even laws you find repugnant) is advisable for people wanting to retain their freedom?
I think there’ll be further restrictions because that’s the pattern. A few weeks to flatten the curve. Lose November to save Xmas. Lose Xmas to save Easter. 15M jabs for freedom. See the pattern? They’re full of shit.
I think people will do what they want to do. Birmingham was absolutely heaving with traffic and people visiting others etc during jan to March. A lot of folk had had enough."But it’s not a criminal offence. It was dealt with by a civil penalty, similar to a speeding ticket. | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why That’s life. People die! Lol. Well strictly that's death." Correct. It’ll come to us all! | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment."According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search). This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back. People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting."That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence. People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!!  . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it  | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life." Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life." If some of their family and friends ended up hospitalised or worse was this sensible? We dod not even have vaccines last winter. Also, we need to distinguish who is semsible and who thinks is sensible. Because someone who thinks that covid is not dangerous (even when there were no vaccines) is really sensible? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it "Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical. If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act. They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act. ... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?" Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. If some of their family and friends ended up hospitalised or worse was this sensible? We dod not even have vaccines last winter. Also, we need to distinguish who is semsible and who thinks is sensible. Because someone who thinks that covid is not dangerous (even when there were no vaccines) is really sensible? " The family and friends also wanted to see these people, I doubt they went round without asking! There were vaccines from December. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you."Lol, I weigh it up, like anything. You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest… I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?" Do you realise life is full of risk? You’d better not drive anywhere as if you crash and die you won’t enjoy life then. You’d better not do any dangerous sport, as I’d you get injured or die you won’t enjoy life then. Etc etc….. people are happy to weigh up risks. Simple as that. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example." It is not that’s life because when was the last time that we had such an infectious decease that threaten so many? Also last winter we knew a lot less. The that”s life argument is a favourite with people who want to rush to get back to normal but among these people are also people who never took covid seriously. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one."I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances. You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law? I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk. If you do - don't say I didn't warn you. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?" And I could turn that round… you don’t give a fuck about the mental health of people not being able to see family. You don’t give a fuck about the negative effects of lockdowns on jobs/industry etc. You just love the rules. Love the authority. It makes you feel like you’re doing something for the greater good, however much it screws people. And that is why many people don’t give a fuck about the rules any more. Works both ways. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you."You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point. Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket. It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. It is not that’s life because when was the last time that we had such an infectious decease that threaten so many? Also last winter we knew a lot less. The that”s life argument is a favourite with people who want to rush to get back to normal but among these people are also people who never took covid seriously. " Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example." I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you.
You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point.
Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket.
It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true.
"There may have been both criminal and civil offences. It was a lot to digest and unclear. Why do you think it's ok to break civil law? Are only some laws important to you? If many people decide that they're above the law, then many people don't share my values. That's fine. I am very aware that many people think the pandemic is unimportant and the rules don't apply to them, that other people can do the work to bring it to an end. It doesn't shock me. It just makes me sad. I believe in everyone pitching in for each other. Which is what I try to do - no matter how you try to malign me and others for it. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? And I could turn that round… you don’t give a fuck about the mental health of people not being able to see family. You don’t give a fuck about the negative effects of lockdowns on jobs/industry etc. You just love the rules. Love the authority. It makes you feel like you’re doing something for the greater good, however much it screws people. And that is why many people don’t give a fuck about the rules any more. Works both ways." 150k additional people have died. Thought better remind u | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever." I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. " Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you.
You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point.
Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket.
It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true.
There may have been both criminal and civil offences. It was a lot to digest and unclear.
Why do you think it's ok to break civil law? Are only some laws important to you?
If many people decide that they're above the law, then many people don't share my values. That's fine. I am very aware that many people think the pandemic is unimportant and the rules don't apply to them, that other people can do the work to bring it to an end. It doesn't shock me. It just makes me sad. I believe in everyone pitching in for each other. Which is what I try to do - no matter how you try to malign me and others for it."I think it was ok to break lockdown as I’m not spending months of my life not “living”. I like to see friends and family. Why do you think it’s ok to ruin so any other aspects of life did you the pandemic? That’s fine, but I weigh it all up. But it’s not about me, the point is huge percentages ignored it from January onwards. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? And I could turn that round… you don’t give a fuck about the mental health of people not being able to see family. You don’t give a fuck about the negative effects of lockdowns on jobs/industry etc. You just love the rules. Love the authority. It makes you feel like you’re doing something for the greater good, however much it screws people. And that is why many people don’t give a fuck about the rules any more. Works both ways. 150k additional people have died. Thought better remind u" Well aware thanks. And the other impacts of restrictions are at present immeasurable. They’re going to be huge. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Do you realise life is full of risk? You’d better not drive anywhere as if you crash and die you won’t enjoy life then. You’d better not do any dangerous sport, as I’d you get injured or die you won’t enjoy life then. Etc etc….. people are happy to weigh up risks. Simple as that. " Also, I realise that life is full of risks. But accepting life risks does not include people who are unvaccinated or careless who may be positive with something that did not exist 2 years ago and who still think do not pose a risk and come towards me on a daily basis or unqualified, disqualified or d*unk lorry drivers who think they do not pose a risk amd come towards me. These are not risks that are considered regular life risks. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home." Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Do you realise life is full of risk? You’d better not drive anywhere as if you crash and die you won’t enjoy life then. You’d better not do any dangerous sport, as I’d you get injured or die you won’t enjoy life then. Etc etc….. people are happy to weigh up risks. Simple as that. Also, I realise that life is full of risks. But accepting life risks does not include people who are unvaccinated or careless who may be positive with something that did not exist 2 years ago and who still think do not pose a risk and come towards me on a daily basis or unqualified, disqualified or d*unk lorry drivers who think they do not pose a risk amd come towards me. These are not risks that are considered regular life risks." People who are vaccinated are a risk to you. That’s infectious disease. This isn’t going away, get used to it. Or spend your life being ‘ruled’ by covid. | |||
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"Cheeky and swing dress you really need to get a room. Back to the op. I think the picture is fairly stable at the moment. The percentage moves are fairly small week to week. Whether we can reduce this further will be dependant on 3 factors for me. 1.can the vaccine be upgraded to provide better resistance and longer lasting coverage at higher safety levels. (this is the only factor humanity can manage) 2. Will the virus mutate to be less lethal and less transmissible. 3. Will human immune systems adapt to better identify and eliminate the disease. It will never go but those 3 factors could minimise the long term figures. " I’d get a room but Inaseingdress won’t leave hers for another 15 years  | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you.
You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point.
Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket.
It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true.
There may have been both criminal and civil offences. It was a lot to digest and unclear.
Why do you think it's ok to break civil law? Are only some laws important to you?
If many people decide that they're above the law, then many people don't share my values. That's fine. I am very aware that many people think the pandemic is unimportant and the rules don't apply to them, that other people can do the work to bring it to an end. It doesn't shock me. It just makes me sad. I believe in everyone pitching in for each other. Which is what I try to do - no matter how you try to malign me and others for it.
I think it was ok to break lockdown as I’m not spending months of my life not “living”. I like to see friends and family.
Why do you think it’s ok to ruin so any other aspects of life did you the pandemic? That’s fine, but I weigh it all up. But it’s not about me, the point is huge percentages ignored it from January onwards."So your definition of living trumps the law? How nice for you. Us mere peons have to abide by the law. How have I ruined any lives? Is my attendance necessary at the pub or the club or the dinner party? I'm expressing views on the internet. If my "no I don't want to come, pandemic" has ruined lives then I am most dreadfully sorry, but I'm afraid I see zero evidence of that. I see no difference to "no sorry I don't want to come, big day at work tomorrow". My life, my choice, same as it always was. I don't care how many people broke the law in January or from then onwards. It's not going to change my behaviour. My conscience is clear. My risk assessment remains. I do think that if breaking the law is no big deal to so many people, then things should be done to make people take the law more seriously. Do you think people disregarding the law is desirable? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you.
You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point.
Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket.
It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true.
There may have been both criminal and civil offences. It was a lot to digest and unclear.
Why do you think it's ok to break civil law? Are only some laws important to you?
If many people decide that they're above the law, then many people don't share my values. That's fine. I am very aware that many people think the pandemic is unimportant and the rules don't apply to them, that other people can do the work to bring it to an end. It doesn't shock me. It just makes me sad. I believe in everyone pitching in for each other. Which is what I try to do - no matter how you try to malign me and others for it.
I think it was ok to break lockdown as I’m not spending months of my life not “living”. I like to see friends and family.
Why do you think it’s ok to ruin so any other aspects of life did you the pandemic? That’s fine, but I weigh it all up. But it’s not about me, the point is huge percentages ignored it from January onwards.
So your definition of living trumps the law? How nice for you. Us mere peons have to abide by the law.
How have I ruined any lives? Is my attendance necessary at the pub or the club or the dinner party? I'm expressing views on the internet. If my "no I don't want to come, pandemic" has ruined lives then I am most dreadfully sorry, but I'm afraid I see zero evidence of that. I see no difference to "no sorry I don't want to come, big day at work tomorrow". My life, my choice, same as it always was.
I don't care how many people broke the law in January or from then onwards. It's not going to change my behaviour. My conscience is clear. My risk assessment remains.
I do think that if breaking the law is no big deal to so many people, then things should be done to make people take the law more seriously. Do you think people disregarding the law is desirable?"Lol, and that’s exactly what they’ll do! Get stricter and stricter and more authoritarian. To look after the good citizens….those who do as they’re told. Now where does that ring a bell….? I don’t care who breaks covid rules I’m afraid, each up their own. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people." I'm delighted that there are many people who are so privileged that their definition of living overrides the law. It must be nice, not being a normal person with regular responsibilities. Sounds wonderful. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people. I'm delighted that there are many people who are so privileged that their definition of living overrides the law. It must be nice, not being a normal person with regular responsibilities. Sounds wonderful." | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Do you realise life is full of risk? You’d better not drive anywhere as if you crash and die you won’t enjoy life then. You’d better not do any dangerous sport, as I’d you get injured or die you won’t enjoy life then. Etc etc….. people are happy to weigh up risks. Simple as that. Also, I realise that life is full of risks. But accepting life risks does not include people who are unvaccinated or careless who may be positive with something that did not exist 2 years ago and who still think do not pose a risk and come towards me on a daily basis or unqualified, disqualified or d*unk lorry drivers who think they do not pose a risk amd come towards me. These are not risks that are considered regular life risks. People who are vaccinated are a risk to you. That’s infectious disease. This isn’t going away, get used to it. Or spend your life being ‘ruled’ by covid." I am hetting used to it that covid will not go away. But even though vaccinated people are a risk to me too, many are comscious of the risks and still take precautions. Life is not going to be the same for sometime and this is what we need to get used to and that life is full,of risks. This was the old motto. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people. I'm delighted that there are many people who are so privileged that their definition of living overrides the law. It must be nice, not being a normal person with regular responsibilities. Sounds wonderful." It’s really not normal to lock yourself away for years. It really isn’t. But each to their own. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Do you realise life is full of risk? You’d better not drive anywhere as if you crash and die you won’t enjoy life then. You’d better not do any dangerous sport, as I’d you get injured or die you won’t enjoy life then. Etc etc….. people are happy to weigh up risks. Simple as that. Also, I realise that life is full of risks. But accepting life risks does not include people who are unvaccinated or careless who may be positive with something that did not exist 2 years ago and who still think do not pose a risk and come towards me on a daily basis or unqualified, disqualified or d*unk lorry drivers who think they do not pose a risk amd come towards me. These are not risks that are considered regular life risks. People who are vaccinated are a risk to you. That’s infectious disease. This isn’t going away, get used to it. Or spend your life being ‘ruled’ by covid. I am hetting used to it that covid will not go away. But even though vaccinated people are a risk to me too, many are comscious of the risks and still take precautions. Life is not going to be the same for sometime and this is what we need to get used to and that life is full,of risks. This was the old motto." My motto has always been, do unto others. If I'm a risk to others, I mitigate that risk. Back to the OP, I think the future is uncertain, which is why I act as I do. I don't want Covid, I don't want to hurt other people, I can do things to mitigate my risk. This includes when I do my voluntary work with vulnerable people, in person. Because my life includes that, I need to be more careful, and more conservative about my personal risk. I worry about the people under my care, that their mitigation might not be enough, the amount they've suffered indirectly and directly because of Covid. I cannot make a difference beyond myself. But I'm doing everything I can to not be a risk to others. I hope that has ripple effects and reduces the overall risk in my community, even if only by a little. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people. I'm delighted that there are many people who are so privileged that their definition of living overrides the law. It must be nice, not being a normal person with regular responsibilities. Sounds wonderful. It’s really not normal to lock yourself away for years. It really isn’t. But each to their own." My choices are not influenced by your opinion, but thank you for sharing. | |||
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" Weigh it up based on age and risk. That’s what most do. If I was 80 years old and ill, I’d be extremely careful. If I was 20 and in excellent health I wouldn’t even think about it. It’s all about weighing up personal risk. Like every infectious disease ever. I'm 35. I'm in reasonable health with no relevant underlying conditions. I'm physically active, I take supplements, my diet is good. I'm vaccinated. Good to go, right? Nope. I come into contact with plenty of people who might have underlying conditions. Who are over 50, 70, 80. I realise that the long term effects of Covid are unknown for any age group. I realise that Covid puts strains on a healthcare system that's endured a lot. That has knock on effects for anyone who needs it, not just Covid patients. I recognise that many children are missing school due to Covid and Covid exposure. I realise that my efforts to mitigate are incomplete, because nothing is perfect. It's not just about me. I stay at home. Those older people are vaccinated. Bit your argument is literally proving my point. You base your decisions entirely on covid. Nothing else. If everyone did what you did the mental health impacts of not seeing people, being alone etc would be enormous. But you don’t think about that. You base everything on covid. Covid covid covid. Which is fine, but there were huge percentages who had enough by Jan/Feb time. They want to live. They want to mix. They want to see people. I'm delighted that there are many people who are so privileged that their definition of living overrides the law. It must be nice, not being a normal person with regular responsibilities. Sounds wonderful. It’s really not normal to lock yourself away for years. It really isn’t. But each to their own. My choices are not influenced by your opinion, but thank you for sharing." And mine are not influenced by yours, but you shared…. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. " You should feel guilty. By your own words in this thread you have said that you have no intention of taking proportionate measures to reduce your chances of getting covid. Now you are all indignant about any suggestion that you should take responsibility for your own decisions. It's not me deciding that you shouldn't call an ambulance. It's you that has made choices, and if you do not accept the consequences of those choices, then you are being hypocritical. Take a good long hard look at yourself. PS. Do I feel guilty about those that have suffered due to lockdowns? No I don't, because since even before covid reached the UK, I have done everything I possibly could to minimise the spread of the disease and to try to avoid the need for lockdowns. The ones that _are_ guilty for the occurrence of lockdowns, that _are_ guilty of the suffering due to lockdowns, are those that refused to take measures to reduce the spread of the disease. By your own words, you are one of those people. Your actions made lockdowns longer, your actions resulted in more deaths, your actions have increased the social and financial cost of covid. If more lockdowns occur, if hospitals overflow, if more people die than otherwise would, my conscience is clear. Because I haven't caused that. You have. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?" . Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1." If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. You should feel guilty. By your own words in this thread you have said that you have no intention of taking proportionate measures to reduce your chances of getting covid. Now you are all indignant about any suggestion that you should take responsibility for your own decisions. It's not me deciding that you shouldn't call an ambulance. It's you that has made choices, and if you do not accept the consequences of those choices, then you are being hypocritical. Take a good long hard look at yourself. PS. Do I feel guilty about those that have suffered due to lockdowns? No I don't, because since even before covid reached the UK, I have done everything I possibly could to minimise the spread of the disease and to try to avoid the need for lockdowns. The ones that _are_ guilty for the occurrence of lockdowns, that _are_ guilty of the suffering due to lockdowns, are those that refused to take measures to reduce the spread of the disease. By your own words, you are one of those people. Your actions made lockdowns longer, your actions resulted in more deaths, your actions have increased the social and financial cost of covid. If more lockdowns occur, if hospitals overflow, if more people die than otherwise would, my conscience is clear. Because I haven't caused that. You have." No I should not feel guilty. I believe the measures were completely disproportionate. Way OTT. Absolute tripe. I have not caught covid yet. I have seen friends over the winter and not caused anyone to get it. I have not done anything to result in more deaths as I have not had covid! I can’t give covid to someone if I haven’t got it. Like the millions of others who broke the rules as they were not ill. You are literally brainwashed. Quarantining healthy people does not stop a spread of a disease. If I was ill, I’d quarantine. THAT is proportionate. My actions did not make lockdowns longer. The government decided lockdowns. I did not increase covid in any way because I did not have it. On the other hand, you supporting these lockdowns has directly contributed to the massive mental health crisis. You supporting them has meant people have not been allowed to see loved ones who may have now passed away. The huge increase in deaths at home as other aspects of health have suffered due to people like you only thinking covid matters. That’s on you. My conscience is clear. Works both ways  | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell." Most people who disagree with you are not “covid deniers”. That’s nonsense. It’s a lazy label that’s been used to group people together… divide and rule. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell." Good luck with the police. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police." Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs " I think 80% of people agree with you. At least. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk?" No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. | |||
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"Is, it improving or getting worse in hospitals. Stats, confusing Cases, up deaths, up but hospital slightly down does anyone know what's, really going on " It could be a lull or it could be in terminal decline, nobody really knows and the future is unpredictable at best. If you speak to hospital and paramedics there really busy but not much with covid??. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life." If you potentially want someone to die, because they were visited and infected, it may seem 'sensible' but that's not how most people would think. We're fortunate that so many people have been double vaccinated and that many of the very vulnerable will get a booster jab in coming weeks. This is keeping hospital admissions much lower than they would otherwise be . Likewise, deaths are staying suppressed. | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs " Or, better still, let those who have taken the steps to improve society, get back to the fuller engagement that they deserve | |||
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"Do you think we are any where the end or normal No chance! It’ll never end. The sooner folk realise this the better." What is it that you hope folk will realise? And what difference will anybody "realising" make? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts."What goalposts have moved? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it "Until you see someone you care about or live die a slow and painful death caused by it.... Unable to breathe, gasping for air, fear in their eyes. Yep just carry on. | |||
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"Do you think we are any where the end or normal No chance! It’ll never end. The sooner folk realise this the better. What is it that you hope folk will realise? And what difference will anybody "realising" make? " That covid isn’t going away. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts.
What goalposts have moved? "A few weeks to flatten the curve. Lose November to save Xmas. Lose Xmas to save Easter. 15M vaccines to freedom. Now 90% of adults are vaccinated and we’re still looking at winter restrictions. That’s the goalposts which have moved. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Until you see someone you care about or live die a slow and painful death caused by it.... Unable to breathe, gasping for air, fear in their eyes. Yep just carry on. "I’m well aware it is a nasty illness. But I’m also aware of the impacts of lockdowns and awful suffering they have created. More restrictions and this will get worse and worse. So I will carry on. I will also isolate if I got covid. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. " I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen." Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible! | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible! "There is no medical segregation. This would be the case if they did not offer you the vaccine or of they refused you medical treatment. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
There is no medical segregation. This would be the case if they did not offer you the vaccine or of they refused you medical treatment. "Segregation from society if you choose not to have it. It’s coming. In Scotland first. You can pretend it’s not segregation if you like, but it is. It’s gross. And the consequences of this are not going to be pretty. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible! "Actions, or inactions, come with consequences. The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you. Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face."“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument. And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations."So choices don't come with consequences? Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs Or, better still, let those who have taken the steps to improve society, get back to the fuller engagement that they deserve
Yes they all rushed out and got an untested vaccine pumped into their bodies that still doesn’t stop them from getting and passing on the virus. Yep that’s definitely improved society indeed "You need to catch up a little . The several vaccines here are all fully tested, beyond Stage 3. The full trial results are freely available, covering safety and efficacy levels. There have been further trials and other research since, making this illness and the medication used to thwart it, probably the most researched in world history.
Whilst these vaccines were largely targeted at reducing deaths and the numbers of people with very severe illness, there are other benefits that we have too. Newer researched treatments are also able to make substantial reductions in severity and can reduce the level of infectivity to others; they correspondingly cut death levels too.
Unlike you, most people would probably view those benefits, irrespective of the corresponding consequential benefits, such as reopening from lockdown , as huge benefits for us all. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them " | |||
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"MODERATOR!!! Please for fucks sake no more covid threads, please!!" This is the Virus Forum area, so Fab is providing the optional choice to read and post within it, subject to site and forum terms. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them "The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom. My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone. It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. You should feel guilty. By your own words in this thread you have said that you have no intention of taking proportionate measures to reduce your chances of getting covid. Now you are all indignant about any suggestion that you should take responsibility for your own decisions. It's not me deciding that you shouldn't call an ambulance. It's you that has made choices, and if you do not accept the consequences of those choices, then you are being hypocritical. Take a good long hard look at yourself. PS. Do I feel guilty about those that have suffered due to lockdowns? No I don't, because since even before covid reached the UK, I have done everything I possibly could to minimise the spread of the disease and to try to avoid the need for lockdowns. The ones that _are_ guilty for the occurrence of lockdowns, that _are_ guilty of the suffering due to lockdowns, are those that refused to take measures to reduce the spread of the disease. By your own words, you are one of those people. Your actions made lockdowns longer, your actions resulted in more deaths, your actions have increased the social and financial cost of covid. If more lockdowns occur, if hospitals overflow, if more people die than otherwise would, my conscience is clear. Because I haven't caused that. You have. No I should not feel guilty. I believe the measures were completely disproportionate. Way OTT. Absolute tripe. I have not caught covid yet. I have seen friends over the winter and not caused anyone to get it. I have not done anything to result in more deaths as I have not had covid! I can’t give covid to someone if I haven’t got it. Like the millions of others who broke the rules as they were not ill. You are literally brainwashed. Quarantining healthy people does not stop a spread of a disease. If I was ill, I’d quarantine. THAT is proportionate. My actions did not make lockdowns longer. The government decided lockdowns. I did not increase covid in any way because I did not have it. On the other hand, you supporting these lockdowns has directly contributed to the massive mental health crisis. You supporting them has meant people have not been allowed to see loved ones who may have now passed away. The huge increase in deaths at home as other aspects of health have suffered due to people like you only thinking covid matters. That’s on you. My conscience is clear. Works both ways
"You think that the government deliberately extended lockdowns? You are utterly deluded. This government only instigated preventative measures when they became terrified that there would be so many deaths that they would be utterly unable to sweep them under the carpet. If Johnson and Cummings had their way, there would never have been a single day of lockdown. Each time their decision was to do too little, too late, inevitably requiring the measures to be harsher and longer than they needed to be. Every person that wouldn't wear a mask, that congregated with others when asked not to, made things worse. If enough people had listened to people like me at the start, instead of denying that there was any problem, there would never have been any need for lockdowns. It's the ones that kept saying that they couldn't catch covid, the ones that said they had magical immunity, the ones that said it only affects one in a million, that caused the lockdowns. Every time that somebody like you sets the example of not wearing a mask, of not keeping distance, of deciding that health rules don't apply to you, it makes the situation worse. It increases the likelihood of new and harder measures being needed in the future. Your voice says that you don't want lockdowns. Your actions are what causes them. My every action for the last twenty months has been tempered by consideration of how I could help reduce the spread of covid, of how I could help reduce the load on hospitals, of how I could minimise the need for lockdowns, of how I could reduce the isolation of people. In short, I think about the well being of others. I don't bleat about how unfair the anti-covid measures are, then do things that make the situation worse. That would be the people that think only about themselves, that frankly don't give a damn about the physical or mental health of others, that are unconcerned about the losses of others. If you wish to keep putting yourself in the way of harm, go do it. I'm not stopping you. I'm past trying to help people keep safe when all they do is insult me for it. You want to catch covid, go do it. But don't blame me for it. Your words, your actions, your responsibility. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous. "So public health measures can be ignored because you say so, but other laws can't be ignored because you say so. Ex offenders who have served their time face enormous difficulty attempting to rehabilitate, and can be barred from jobs. They are denied their human rights while in prison, as noted above. The only person who is entirely above parliamentary sovereignty and who may override it, as far as I know, is the Queen. It's interesting that you choose this particular issue on which to depart on 300 years of non interference with parliament, Your Majesty, but I suppose I must defer as a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I do accept that you are my head of state and that the laws only derive from Your Royal Assent. May God save you | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. You should feel guilty. By your own words in this thread you have said that you have no intention of taking proportionate measures to reduce your chances of getting covid. Now you are all indignant about any suggestion that you should take responsibility for your own decisions. It's not me deciding that you shouldn't call an ambulance. It's you that has made choices, and if you do not accept the consequences of those choices, then you are being hypocritical. Take a good long hard look at yourself. PS. Do I feel guilty about those that have suffered due to lockdowns? No I don't, because since even before covid reached the UK, I have done everything I possibly could to minimise the spread of the disease and to try to avoid the need for lockdowns. The ones that _are_ guilty for the occurrence of lockdowns, that _are_ guilty of the suffering due to lockdowns, are those that refused to take measures to reduce the spread of the disease. By your own words, you are one of those people. Your actions made lockdowns longer, your actions resulted in more deaths, your actions have increased the social and financial cost of covid. If more lockdowns occur, if hospitals overflow, if more people die than otherwise would, my conscience is clear. Because I haven't caused that. You have. No I should not feel guilty. I believe the measures were completely disproportionate. Way OTT. Absolute tripe. I have not caught covid yet. I have seen friends over the winter and not caused anyone to get it. I have not done anything to result in more deaths as I have not had covid! I can’t give covid to someone if I haven’t got it. Like the millions of others who broke the rules as they were not ill. You are literally brainwashed. Quarantining healthy people does not stop a spread of a disease. If I was ill, I’d quarantine. THAT is proportionate. My actions did not make lockdowns longer. The government decided lockdowns. I did not increase covid in any way because I did not have it. On the other hand, you supporting these lockdowns has directly contributed to the massive mental health crisis. You supporting them has meant people have not been allowed to see loved ones who may have now passed away. The huge increase in deaths at home as other aspects of health have suffered due to people like you only thinking covid matters. That’s on you. My conscience is clear. Works both ways
You think that the government deliberately extended lockdowns? You are utterly deluded. This government only instigated preventative measures when they became terrified that there would be so many deaths that they would be utterly unable to sweep them under the carpet. If Johnson and Cummings had their way, there would never have been a single day of lockdown. Each time their decision was to do too little, too late, inevitably requiring the measures to be harsher and longer than they needed to be. Every person that wouldn't wear a mask, that congregated with others when asked not to, made things worse. If enough people had listened to people like me at the start, instead of denying that there was any problem, there would never have been any need for lockdowns. It's the ones that kept saying that they couldn't catch covid, the ones that said they had magical immunity, the ones that said it only affects one in a million, that caused the lockdowns. Every time that somebody like you sets the example of not wearing a mask, of not keeping distance, of deciding that health rules don't apply to you, it makes the situation worse. It increases the likelihood of new and harder measures being needed in the future.
Your voice says that you don't want lockdowns. Your actions are what causes them. My every action for the last twenty months has been tempered by consideration of how I could help reduce the spread of covid, of how I could help reduce the load on hospitals, of how I could minimise the need for lockdowns, of how I could reduce the isolation of people. In short, I think about the well being of others. I don't bleat about how unfair the anti-covid measures are, then do things that make the situation worse. That would be the people that think only about themselves, that frankly don't give a damn about the physical or mental health of others, that are unconcerned about the losses of others.
If you wish to keep putting yourself in the way of harm, go do it. I'm not stopping you. I'm past trying to help people keep safe when all they do is insult me for it. You want to catch covid, go do it. But don't blame me for it. Your words, your actions, your responsibility."You literally live for covid. I really feel sorry for you. I don’t want to catch covid, I just accept it’ll happen, and I’m not prepared to lock myself away or live life with every behaviour related to covid. Why on earth would I blame you if I caught covid? What an odd thing to say. It’s an infectious disease, it’s no ones fault. And I think it’s you who doesn’t give a damn about mental health of others. Criticising people for wanting to live life normally and mix and see people? Who do you think you are? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous. "By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
So public health measures can be ignored because you say so, but other laws can't be ignored because you say so.
Ex offenders who have served their time face enormous difficulty attempting to rehabilitate, and can be barred from jobs. They are denied their human rights while in prison, as noted above.
The only person who is entirely above parliamentary sovereignty and who may override it, as far as I know, is the Queen. It's interesting that you choose this particular issue on which to depart on 300 years of non interference with parliament, Your Majesty, but I suppose I must defer as a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I do accept that you are my head of state and that the laws only derive from Your Royal Assent.
May God save you "You’re equating criminals with people who don’t want a vaccine. You’re too far gone. It’s very sad. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me."You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
So public health measures can be ignored because you say so, but other laws can't be ignored because you say so.
Ex offenders who have served their time face enormous difficulty attempting to rehabilitate, and can be barred from jobs. They are denied their human rights while in prison, as noted above.
The only person who is entirely above parliamentary sovereignty and who may override it, as far as I know, is the Queen. It's interesting that you choose this particular issue on which to depart on 300 years of non interference with parliament, Your Majesty, but I suppose I must defer as a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I do accept that you are my head of state and that the laws only derive from Your Royal Assent.
May God save you
You’re equating criminals with people who don’t want a vaccine. You’re too far gone. It’s very sad."I mean technically I'm equating people who break public health laws with people who steal things. I'm using your logic. Society comes with risks. Segregation is bad. Some laws can be ignored because people aren't living if they don't break them. Unless you are indeed the Queen and have indeed decided to override centuries of precedent since the Glorious Revolution, then why do you get to decide which parts of parliamentary sovereignty - the underpinning of the British constitution - you get to ignore? Why are your desires more important than people who want to take your stuff? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me.
You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word."And this is where the problem is. Because of few minutes ago you said that the choice to wear a mask or having a vaccine is called freedom. No it is not freedom and it is not a choice. I was given no choice because people were spreading covid. Wearing a mask is not like wearing a tshirt. Having a jab is not like having a tatoo which also involves a needle. It is not a choice and it is not called freedom. It certainly not a freedom of expression. In order to defend your freedom for not having it you defend the freedom (the choice) of people who had it. But we did not exercise a freedom and did not have a choice. We did it to protect outselves. | |||
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"Can we back to theme of thread please " Look to news stories about the NHS. Are procedures going ahead? Is care being rationed? What do the stories say is the cause of that? What are the rates of COVID hospitalisations in those areas? That's how I'd go about answering your question. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
So public health measures can be ignored because you say so, but other laws can't be ignored because you say so.
Ex offenders who have served their time face enormous difficulty attempting to rehabilitate, and can be barred from jobs. They are denied their human rights while in prison, as noted above.
The only person who is entirely above parliamentary sovereignty and who may override it, as far as I know, is the Queen. It's interesting that you choose this particular issue on which to depart on 300 years of non interference with parliament, Your Majesty, but I suppose I must defer as a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I do accept that you are my head of state and that the laws only derive from Your Royal Assent.
May God save you
You’re equating criminals with people who don’t want a vaccine. You’re too far gone. It’s very sad.
I mean technically I'm equating people who break public health laws with people who steal things.
I'm using your logic. Society comes with risks. Segregation is bad. Some laws can be ignored because people aren't living if they don't break them.
Unless you are indeed the Queen and have indeed decided to override centuries of precedent since the Glorious Revolution, then why do you get to decide which parts of parliamentary sovereignty - the underpinning of the British constitution - you get to ignore? Why are your desires more important than people who want to take your stuff?"Because theft has always been illegal and not having a vaccine hasn’t? Because theft does not impact bodily autonomy? You are too far gone. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me.
You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word.
And this is where the problem is. Because of few minutes ago you said that the choice to wear a mask or having a vaccine is called freedom.
No it is not freedom and it is not a choice. I was given no choice because people were spreading covid.
Wearing a mask is not like wearing a tshirt. Having a jab is not like having a tatoo which also involves a needle.
It is not a choice and it is not called freedom. It certainly not a freedom of expression.
In order to defend your freedom for not having it you defend the freedom (the choice) of people who had it. But we did not exercise a freedom and did not have a choice. We did it to protect outselves.
"Lol, of course you had a choice! My god this forum is like a parody. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding "Most people are decent and law abiding when the laws are decent and fair If people think the laws / mandate's / rule's being put in place are not decent and fair then they will (and should) not comply You confuse law abiding with plain obedience, such is not virtuous | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Most people are decent and law abiding when the laws are decent and fair
If people think the laws / mandate's / rule's being put in place are not decent and fair then they will (and should) not comply
You confuse law abiding with plain obedience, such is not virtuous"Spot on. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me.
You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word.
And this is where the problem is. Because of few minutes ago you said that the choice to wear a mask or having a vaccine is called freedom.
No it is not freedom and it is not a choice. I was given no choice because people were spreading covid.
Wearing a mask is not like wearing a tshirt. Having a jab is not like having a tatoo which also involves a needle.
It is not a choice and it is not called freedom. It certainly not a freedom of expression.
In order to defend your freedom for not having it you defend the freedom (the choice) of people who had it. But we did not exercise a freedom and did not have a choice. We did it to protect outselves.
Lol, of course you had a choice! My god this forum is like a parody."Yep, it is raining stray bullets and I grab a bullet proof jacket to protect myself. An excellent choice, the latest fashion item. Which means, I am exercising my freedom too. It is not a parody. Do not equate your quest for freedom of not having the vaccine or not wearing a mask with our effort to protect ourselves. You ask most people why they got vaccinated or wear masks, very few will tell you because they had the choice or they chose freedom. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me.
You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word.
And this is where the problem is. Because of few minutes ago you said that the choice to wear a mask or having a vaccine is called freedom.
No it is not freedom and it is not a choice. I was given no choice because people were spreading covid.
Wearing a mask is not like wearing a tshirt. Having a jab is not like having a tatoo which also involves a needle.
It is not a choice and it is not called freedom. It certainly not a freedom of expression.
In order to defend your freedom for not having it you defend the freedom (the choice) of people who had it. But we did not exercise a freedom and did not have a choice. We did it to protect outselves.
Lol, of course you had a choice! My god this forum is like a parody.
Yep, it is raining stray bullets and I grab a bullet proof jacket to protect myself. An excellent choice, the latest fashion item. Which means, I am exercising my freedom too.
It is not a parody.
Do not equate your quest for freedom of not having the vaccine or not wearing a mask with our effort to protect ourselves. You ask most people why they got vaccinated or wear masks, very few will tell you because they had the choice or they chose freedom."Lol, of course they won’t say “because they had a choice”. They’ll have all sorts of reasons and chose to act on them. Hence, choice. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous.
By wearing a mask or having a vaccine I am not exercising my freedom. I am protecting myself with what it has been made available to me.
You are choosing to, which is excellent. Choosing is the key word.
And this is where the problem is. Because of few minutes ago you said that the choice to wear a mask or having a vaccine is called freedom.
No it is not freedom and it is not a choice. I was given no choice because people were spreading covid.
Wearing a mask is not like wearing a tshirt. Having a jab is not like having a tatoo which also involves a needle.
It is not a choice and it is not called freedom. It certainly not a freedom of expression.
In order to defend your freedom for not having it you defend the freedom (the choice) of people who had it. But we did not exercise a freedom and did not have a choice. We did it to protect outselves.
Lol, of course you had a choice! My god this forum is like a parody.
Yep, it is raining stray bullets and I grab a bullet proof jacket to protect myself. An excellent choice, the latest fashion item. Which means, I am exercising my freedom too.
It is not a parody.
Do not equate your quest for freedom of not having the vaccine or not wearing a mask with our effort to protect ourselves. You ask most people why they got vaccinated or wear masks, very few will tell you because they had the choice or they chose freedom.
Lol, of course they won’t say “because they had a choice”. They’ll have all sorts of reasons and chose to act on them. Hence, choice."
It is more, I had to do it, I had no choice.
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them? Lol, it’s infectious disease. That’s life! I’m aware of the dangers and weigh it up. Like many people.done are so scared they think of little else. This forum is a good example. I'm very happy for you that you are aware of the dangers and weigh it up. You don't believe that you will get sick, so good on you. Just as long as you stand by your principles, and if you do get sick or those friends and family you are sharing germs with should happen to fall sick, you don't call for an ambulance, you don't go to the emergency department, you don't add any burden to the NHS. Am I scared of covid? No. Do I acknowledge the reality of a dangerous disease that is endemic across the world, and adjust my behaviour with an appropriate level of caution? Yes. If I catch covid and think that I need medical attention, will I reach for the phone? Hell yes I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. Absolute nonsense. I didn’t say I won’t get sick. I weigh up percentages. I could get very ill. I will use the nhs as I have paid taxes my entire life. Who the hell do you think you are to decide I can’t call an ambulance? I will if I need to. And I so t feel guilty about it. My family and friends I saw also wanted to do the same. I didn’t force myself in their house, lol. Do you feel guilty about those who have suffered due to lockdowns? I suspect not. So sorry but I won’t feel guilty calling an ambulance if I need one. You should feel guilty. By your own words in this thread you have said that you have no intention of taking proportionate measures to reduce your chances of getting covid. Now you are all indignant about any suggestion that you should take responsibility for your own decisions. It's not me deciding that you shouldn't call an ambulance. It's you that has made choices, and if you do not accept the consequences of those choices, then you are being hypocritical. Take a good long hard look at yourself. PS. Do I feel guilty about those that have suffered due to lockdowns? No I don't, because since even before covid reached the UK, I have done everything I possibly could to minimise the spread of the disease and to try to avoid the need for lockdowns. The ones that _are_ guilty for the occurrence of lockdowns, that _are_ guilty of the suffering due to lockdowns, are those that refused to take measures to reduce the spread of the disease. By your own words, you are one of those people. Your actions made lockdowns longer, your actions resulted in more deaths, your actions have increased the social and financial cost of covid. If more lockdowns occur, if hospitals overflow, if more people die than otherwise would, my conscience is clear. Because I haven't caused that. You have. No I should not feel guilty. I believe the measures were completely disproportionate. Way OTT. Absolute tripe. I have not caught covid yet. I have seen friends over the winter and not caused anyone to get it. I have not done anything to result in more deaths as I have not had covid! I can’t give covid to someone if I haven’t got it. Like the millions of others who broke the rules as they were not ill. You are literally brainwashed. Quarantining healthy people does not stop a spread of a disease. If I was ill, I’d quarantine. THAT is proportionate. My actions did not make lockdowns longer. The government decided lockdowns. I did not increase covid in any way because I did not have it. On the other hand, you supporting these lockdowns has directly contributed to the massive mental health crisis. You supporting them has meant people have not been allowed to see loved ones who may have now passed away. The huge increase in deaths at home as other aspects of health have suffered due to people like you only thinking covid matters. That’s on you. My conscience is clear. Works both ways
You think that the government deliberately extended lockdowns? You are utterly deluded. This government only instigated preventative measures when they became terrified that there would be so many deaths that they would be utterly unable to sweep them under the carpet. If Johnson and Cummings had their way, there would never have been a single day of lockdown. Each time their decision was to do too little, too late, inevitably requiring the measures to be harsher and longer than they needed to be. Every person that wouldn't wear a mask, that congregated with others when asked not to, made things worse. If enough people had listened to people like me at the start, instead of denying that there was any problem, there would never have been any need for lockdowns. It's the ones that kept saying that they couldn't catch covid, the ones that said they had magical immunity, the ones that said it only affects one in a million, that caused the lockdowns. Every time that somebody like you sets the example of not wearing a mask, of not keeping distance, of deciding that health rules don't apply to you, it makes the situation worse. It increases the likelihood of new and harder measures being needed in the future.
Your voice says that you don't want lockdowns. Your actions are what causes them. My every action for the last twenty months has been tempered by consideration of how I could help reduce the spread of covid, of how I could help reduce the load on hospitals, of how I could minimise the need for lockdowns, of how I could reduce the isolation of people. In short, I think about the well being of others. I don't bleat about how unfair the anti-covid measures are, then do things that make the situation worse. That would be the people that think only about themselves, that frankly don't give a damn about the physical or mental health of others, that are unconcerned about the losses of others.
If you wish to keep putting yourself in the way of harm, go do it. I'm not stopping you. I'm past trying to help people keep safe when all they do is insult me for it. You want to catch covid, go do it. But don't blame me for it. Your words, your actions, your responsibility.
You literally live for covid. I really feel sorry for you.
I don’t want to catch covid, I just accept it’ll happen, and I’m not prepared to lock myself away or live life with every behaviour related to covid. Why on earth would I blame you if I caught covid? What an odd thing to say. It’s an infectious disease, it’s no ones fault.
And I think it’s you who doesn’t give a damn about mental health of others. Criticising people for wanting to live life normally and mix and see people? Who do you think you are?"I think you jumbled the words up, or misunderstood them, in some way or other. Try reading the post you are replying to again, as your response seems to be inappropriate for what is written | |||
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"Do you think we are any where the end or normal No chance! It’ll never end. The sooner folk realise this the better. What is it that you hope folk will realise? And what difference will anybody "realising" make? That covid isn’t going away." I don't think anyone is under the illusion that covid is going away. What makes you think that? | |||
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"So much hatred "Yeah and I have noticed most is coming from vaccinated people. I would have thought they would have found peace knowing them and there loved ones are protected. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts.
What goalposts have moved?
A few weeks to flatten the curve. Lose November to save Xmas. Lose Xmas to save Easter. 15M vaccines to freedom. Now 90% of adults are vaccinated and we’re still looking at winter restrictions. That’s the goalposts which have moved."Perhaps but also its remarkably naive to think that in the middle of a novel global pandemic that as the situation changes it makes different demands on people. I agree there have been massive mixed messages and huge great fuck ups... But at the end of the day its a virus that kills some people and is spread by breathing in the infection. | |||
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"MODERATOR!!! Please for fucks sake no more covid threads, please!!" No more Covid threads in the Virus room on the forums? 
If you ignore the Virus section then you are unlikely to come across many Covid threads. | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why That’s life. People die! Lol. Well strictly that's death." . Exactly. Every double vaccinated person is going to die !!!!! But what sort of life do you want to lead between now and then ????? | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Because by Jan to March earlier this year, most already were ignoring it in Birmingham. I was stuck in traffic jams on evenings when we were still supposed to be locked down. The increase in traffic during the winter months was huge. By the last few weeks, it was being largely ignored. It will be even more so this winter as people have had enough of the ever moving goalposts.
What goalposts have moved?
A few weeks to flatten the curve. Lose November to save Xmas. Lose Xmas to save Easter. 15M vaccines to freedom. Now 90% of adults are vaccinated and we’re still looking at winter restrictions. That’s the goalposts which have moved.
Perhaps but also its remarkably naive to think that in the middle of a novel global pandemic that as the situation changes it makes different demands on people.
I agree there have been massive mixed messages and huge great fuck ups... But at the end of the day its a virus that kills some people and is spread by breathing in the infection. "The flu is also a virus that kills some people and is spread by breathing in the infection No one cared about that because most people felt safe Now they think they're at risk they'll welcome any protection to save their own hides, whilst preaching empathy and 'doing it for others'. Even though they never thought of it before Odd that And I wouldn't care, but they want to force things (vaccines, lockdowns etc) on others to serve their own cowardice | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. How do you know? And I don't think it's very becoming to predict that most people are going to be criminals. I think most people are decent and law abiding
Oh and breaking lockdown isn’t a criminal offence. It probably will be in a couple of years, but not at the moment.
According to Liberty UK, large indoor gatherings ceased to be a criminal offence on the 19th of July (Coronavirus: Criminal Penalties - not a link I can share on Fab per forum rules, but easy to search).
This seems to suggest that breaking lockdown was a criminal offence. And thus would be if it came back.
People who break the criminal law are criminals. And should be treated like criminals
I suppose it's one way to overthrow democracy. "Lockdown is stupid, we'll never do it, whoops we need to. Huh. All these lawbreakers. Well, we've been calling in the army for food shortages and petrol, let's bring them in for this
Prisoners can't vote, because the government won't fathom it.
Snap election!"
I mean you do you, but I like voting.
That referred to organised gatherings over a certain number of people, I can’t remember how many. The regular rule breaking for, say going over friends houses was not a criminal offence.
People who break the law should be treated like criminals? Lol. You love authority don’t you! Govern me harder!!! . I think you’ve lost a sense of proportion.
I will do me, just as I did last winter. I never had a penalty for it
Yeah, I do think that the laws of a country should be upheld. Sorry about that. How radical.
If you're worried about the government taking over - they're normalising the civil use of the army at the moment. Prisoners can't vote in this country, despite the fact it's against the Human Rights Act. Raab wants to abolish the Human Rights Act.
They recently criminalised protest. There was talk about treating journalists like spies under the Official Secrets Act.
... I'm not the one who says they're worried about creeping tyranny. But if you think that flagrantly breaking the law under these circumstances is a good idea - don't say I didn't warn you.
Lol, I weigh it up, like anything.
You’re absolutely right about the creeping tyranny though. These things are happening. Harder to protest etc. Yet some seem to relish it!! Because it’s all to look after you… keep you safe…. Honest…
I think the laws should too. But I understand that not all penalties are criminal. I’d have happily accepted the fine had I got one.
I cited a source for my belief that it was a criminal offence under some circumstances.
You do realise civil infractions are also breaking the law? You want laws to be upheld but admit to breaking the law?
I don't trust this government not to clamp down. I choose to stay at home - and will choose to obey the law if it's changed. My free choice. I don't want to take the risk.
If you do - don't say I didn't warn you.
You said criminal. It’s not criminal. Not all laws are criminal. Fact. I am well aware it was a civil penalty. That was literally my point.
Sometimes I do 35mph in a 30 zone. That’s breaking the law. I have no problem if I get a ticket.
It is your free choice, that’s fine. Stay in for years, I’ve no doubt you will. And I can promise you huge percentages ignored the rules from january onwards. And even more will next time. I know this blows your mind but it’s true.
There may have been both criminal and civil offences. It was a lot to digest and unclear.
Why do you think it's ok to break civil law? Are only some laws important to you?
If many people decide that they're above the law, then many people don't share my values. That's fine. I am very aware that many people think the pandemic is unimportant and the rules don't apply to them, that other people can do the work to bring it to an end. It doesn't shock me. It just makes me sad. I believe in everyone pitching in for each other. Which is what I try to do - no matter how you try to malign me and others for it."Civil disobedience is a hugely important factor in civil society… because of it women can vote, the lbgtq community are recognised as equal and have a voice as do the black and ethnic minority community… mental health awareness, disabilities, the rights of children etc etc.. we still have a long way to go in many of these areas and more but…I grew up in an era where you couldn’t be openly gay and teach… I’m grateful to civil disobedience for challenging and changing that.. | |||
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"Is, it improving or getting worse in hospitals. Stats, confusing Cases, up deaths, up but hospital slightly down does anyone know what's, really going on " To be honest, the figures have remained broadly the same for quite a while now, the daily new infections is 30k-35k daily deaths are 150-200 ish. Cal | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why" Because 10% of the population is a large number of unvaccinated people... | |||
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"So around, 200 dying a day. Why Because 10% of the population is a large number of unvaccinated people..." there are many countries with higher vaccine uptake than us and the majority of deaths are actually the vaccinated. Then you got the crazy rules that if you die within 28 days( if i remember correctly ) of a positive test result no matter your cause of death, its counted as a covid death. Has everyone forget that was the case for a majority of last year? so, those covid death numbers have been inflated way out of proportion. who's to say they arent doing the same for the unvaccinated deaths. Majority of covid deaths were/have been over 50's and those with existing pre conditions. during the whole pandemic majority of care was shelved for people other than covid victims, so now weve got a efty backlog of people requiring care for other illnesses and conditions and likely many of those were unvaccinated and dying too. The media/gov are very good at making things seem bleaker than they actually are. so dont believe the deaths are occuring in only the 10% of unvaccinated as that's severely delusional. | |||
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"Cases lead to some being hospitalised. Hospitalisations lead to some dying. The vaccinations have changed the percentages of hospitalisations and deaths. The level of long term disease burden or disability, plus knock on effects for other illnesses, also needs to be taken into consideration. We need to decide as a society what level of disease burden and death is acceptable, as compared to what mitigations are put in place. I suspect that will fluctuate over time. We agree, we also think society has already chosen, everywhere looks mostly normal to us. Yes, society seems to have chosen. No decisions are final - as seen by contingency plans the government are discussing and headlines I've seen. The situation is dynamic. They’re not contingency plans, they’re going to happen. Most people will ignore lockdowns/restrictions should they happen again this winter. If things turn bad again, I believe that the sensible people will conform to lockdowns and start using masks. Hopefully though, with so many people being vaccinated things will stay under control this winter. The sensible people will do what they did last winter. See their family and friends and enjoy life. Until they catch covid and die. They won't enjoy life much then. But really, as long as they don't clog up the hospitals with cases that could have been avoided, I don't give a damn about them. A year ago I would have. Now I'm at the point that if it's self inflicted damage, well, they have gone and fucked themselves, let them sort themselves out. Call me callous if you like, but all those denying the danger of covid have shouted often enough that they don't give a fuck about the rest of society, so why should I give a fuck about them?. Why? Probably because they outnumber you at around 150-1. If a braying mob of Covid deniers would like to force me out of my house, rip my mask off my face when I'm out, or deny my freedom of expression, then I'll give a fuck - and call the police for the various assaults that seem to be inherent in such activity. Otherwise - I do my bit, exercise my personal responsibility, and hope that it all doesn't go to hell. Good luck with the police. Do you not think those things are offences against my person and property? Do I not have a right to peacefully and lawfully occupy my home, and wear what I want? Or do you support violence against people trying to mitigate risk? No I think your drawing lines in society that will quite frankly never be patched up. Our own opinion is that this country is already in terminal decline, throw in a polarised society and we'd expect things to go unpleasant those that think society is there to protect them are at best deluded, turn off the lights, empty the shelves, turn off the money supply you'll learn we're just a slightly fancier Afghanistan where the 150-1 mandate throwing the naysayers off roofs!. Societies in the West don't in the main revolve around this liberal idea of cooperation they revolve around toleration the idea that as long as I'm free I tolerate the things I don't like, we think when you remove freedom the other goes with it. I want to express my opinions, and, in the main, be left alone. I am not obliged to go out, I am not obliged to show my nose and mouth, I am not obliged to stand close to people. I remain free to express my opinion. Number of times I have said anything to anyone about masking in person? Zero (except in one setting where, before the 19th of July, it was actually my job to enforce the rules) Number of times I've been verbally abused for quietly covering my mouth and nose, including "don't be such a dickhead, it's a beautiful sunny day"? At least a dozen. Number of times you’ve said you’re fine with medical segregation and it’s reasonable to be sacked for not taking a vaccine and not giving a toss about the division in society being created? Lots. Yet still you think you’re the virtuous one. Incredible!
Actions, or inactions, come with consequences.
The fact you label it medical segregation does not trouble me. I call it communal responsibility, understanding that we all rely on each other, and upholding the standards of people's professions. If you want to call trees dogs and injections caterpillars, then you do you.
Me wearing a mask apparently comes with being sworn at in the street. And I'm the divisive one, because people are offended by me putting cloth on my face.
“Actions come with consequences” can be used as an excuse to coerce anything. Literally anything. It’s a bullshit argument.
And those who abuse you for wearing a mask are also disgusting. I totally agree with that. It’s your choice and there should be no consequences. Same as vaccinations.
So choices don't come with consequences?
Someone chooses to steal your things. Theft is part of life, has been for thousands of years, and some people suffer terribly if they don't steal. They cannot live without theft, and their definition of living overrides the law
What? Theft is a crime? People who commit theft could be liable to prison? Goodness, that's rather segregationist. I thought we could discard laws that disagree with our notion of living.
Abolish prison. End this division in society. Eradicate the law. People should live as they feel is right for them
The choice to wear a mask, or have a vaccine, should not come with consequences. It’s called freedom.
My point was that using the “choices have consequences” argument to sack people or segregate them is wrong and absurd as it could literally be used to justify ANYTHING. That does not mean all laws should be scrapped. If you’re comparing theft to choosing not to take a vaccine, it just shows how far you’re gone.
It’s completely unreasonable and vile to sack people or segregate them for exercising bodily autonomy, a fundamental choice in society. The problems and division this will create is enormous. "Agreed. the fact that people cant see that shows how much people have lost their minds. A twisted form of crab bucket mentality. | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs Or, better still, let those who have taken the steps to improve society, get back to the fuller engagement that they deserve
Yes they all rushed out and got an untested vaccine pumped into their bodies that still doesn’t stop them from getting and passing on the virus. Yep that’s definitely improved society indeed
You need to catch up a little . The several vaccines here are all fully tested, beyond Stage 3. The full trial results are freely available, covering safety and efficacy levels. There have been further trials and other research since, making this illness and the medication used to thwart it, probably the most researched in world history.
Whilst these vaccines were largely targeted at reducing deaths and the numbers of people with very severe illness, there are other benefits that we have too. Newer researched treatments are also able to make substantial reductions in severity and can reduce the level of infectivity to others; they correspondingly cut death levels too.
Unlike you, most people would probably view those benefits, irrespective of the corresponding consequential benefits, such as reopening from lockdown , as huge benefits for us all. "i beg to differ, recently it has been discovered that and discussed in parliament that this vaccine has had the worst amount of adverse reactions and deaths than all other vaccines combined in history. | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs Or, better still, let those who have taken the steps to improve society, get back to the fuller engagement that they deserve
Yes they all rushed out and got an untested vaccine pumped into their bodies that still doesn’t stop them from getting and passing on the virus. Yep that’s definitely improved society indeed
You need to catch up a little . The several vaccines here are all fully tested, beyond Stage 3. The full trial results are freely available, covering safety and efficacy levels. There have been further trials and other research since, making this illness and the medication used to thwart it, probably the most researched in world history.
Whilst these vaccines were largely targeted at reducing deaths and the numbers of people with very severe illness, there are other benefits that we have too. Newer researched treatments are also able to make substantial reductions in severity and can reduce the level of infectivity to others; they correspondingly cut death levels too.
Unlike you, most people would probably view those benefits, irrespective of the corresponding consequential benefits, such as reopening from lockdown , as huge benefits for us all.
i beg to differ, recently it has been discovered that and discussed in parliament that this vaccine has had the worst amount of adverse reactions and deaths than all other vaccines combined in history.
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" i beg to differ, recently it has been discovered that and discussed in parliament that this vaccine has had the worst amount of adverse reactions and deaths than all other vaccines combined in history. "lol that is 100% not true | |||
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" i beg to differ, recently it has been discovered that and discussed in parliament that this vaccine has had the worst amount of adverse reactions and deaths than all other vaccines combined in history.
lol that is 100% not true"oh really? you sure about that? | |||
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"I’m completely done with the over reacting and bullshit of COVID If they lock us down again I am not complying with anything and neither is the majority of my friends and family. Everyone who wanted the jab has had it, let the rest of us get back to normal ffs Or, better still, let those who have taken the steps to improve society, get back to the fuller engagement that they deserve
Yes they all rushed out and got an untested vaccine pumped into their bodies that still doesn’t stop them from getting and passing on the virus. Yep that’s definitely improved society indeed
You need to catch up a little . The several vaccines here are all fully tested, beyond Stage 3. The full trial results are freely available, covering safety and efficacy levels. There have been further trials and other research since, making this illness and the medication used to thwart it, probably the most researched in world history.
Whilst these vaccines were largely targeted at reducing deaths and the numbers of people with very severe illness, there are other benefits that we have too. Newer researched treatments are also able to make substantial reductions in severity and can reduce the level of infectivity to others; they correspondingly cut death levels too.
Unlike you, most people would probably view those benefits, irrespective of the corresponding consequential benefits, such as reopening from lockdown , as huge benefits for us all.
i beg to differ, recently it has been discovered that and discussed in parliament that this vaccine has had the worst amount of adverse reactions and deaths than all other vaccines combined in history.
Yes ok "literally an mp talking about it in the house commons live on telly using statistics and data given to him. i watched it myself and so can you. | |||
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" literally an mp talking about it in the house commons live on telly using statistics and data given to him. i watched it myself and so can you. " I remember politicians discussing at length, using FACT and STATISTICS given to them, how Brexit would save us £350m per week. There are a lot of "misrepresented" statistics about adverse reactions. The truth though, is that no vaccine has ever had this amount of data collected about it. 99% of people didn't even know that there was somewhere that you COULD report having side effects... until this. There is no way to compare these vaccines with others because of the lack of data previously collected. What has been demonstrated with considerable accuracy though, is that the vaccines are hugely reducing the likelihood of catching, getting ill, and dying, due to covid. Cal | |||
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" literally an mp talking about it in the house commons live on telly using statistics and data given to him. i watched it myself and so can you. I remember politicians discussing at length, using FACT and STATISTICS given to them, how Brexit would save us £350m per week. There are a lot of "misrepresented" statistics about adverse reactions. The truth though, is that no vaccine has ever had this amount of data collected about it. 99% of people didn't even know that there was somewhere that you COULD report having side effects... until this. There is no way to compare these vaccines with others because of the lack of data previously collected. What has been demonstrated with considerable accuracy though, is that the vaccines are hugely reducing the likelihood of catching, getting ill, and dying, due to covid. Cal" Catching it ? How's that now? I've not seen anything for delta variant which demonstrates with considerable accuracy how much and in what circumstances and if at all the vaccine affects transmission of the infection. I've seen an awful lot of commentary and I've seen some stuff that pertains to the alpha variant. It would be good if such evidence was available. | |||
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" literally an mp talking about it in the house commons live on telly using statistics and data given to him. i watched it myself and so can you. I remember politicians discussing at length, using FACT and STATISTICS given to them, how Brexit would save us £350m per week. There are a lot of "misrepresented" statistics about adverse reactions. The truth though, is that no vaccine has ever had this amount of data collected about it. 99% of people didn't even know that there was somewhere that you COULD report having side effects... until this. There is no way to compare these vaccines with others because of the lack of data previously collected. What has been demonstrated with considerable accuracy though, is that the vaccines are hugely reducing the likelihood of catching, getting ill, and dying, due to covid. Cal Catching it ? How's that now? I've not seen anything for delta variant which demonstrates with considerable accuracy how much and in what circumstances and if at all the vaccine affects transmission of the infection. I've seen an awful lot of commentary and I've seen some stuff that pertains to the alpha variant. It would be good if such evidence was available. " New infections of Delta variant 50-60% lower in double jabbed according to this article in the BMJ https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960#:~:text=3%20The%20researchers%20estimated%20a,a%20person%20was%20double%20vaccinated. Cal | |||
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"Doesn't your statement tend to prove masks and vaccines don't work? Or do you work for the government. Free people have a right to choose and your comments are just showing everyone that you believe what the mainstream are telling you. If you carry on the goid work for these tyrants they'll let you name the next variant mate!! Ha" No, there is ZERO evidence to support masks or vaccines not working... and lots that conclusively proves that both DO work. The name of the next variant is also known already as they are letters of the Greek alphabet... and quite like our own alphabet they have a pre-defined sequence. Cal | |||
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