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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

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By *lenderfoxMan
over a year ago

Leeds

It doesn't matter since most of the borrowing is from the BoE

Governments are perpetually in debt, it's how they operate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/08/21 22:34:21]

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By *azkinsWoman
over a year ago

leeds

It won't be paid back in my lifetime. Future generations will suffer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The really worrying thing is we'll be facing the double whammy of payment for Covid and Brexit at the same time...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"[Removed by poster at 01/08/21 22:33:43]"

wow tinfoil hat overload, oh and just checked the rothchialds arent rich enough by a long way

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By *reenleavesCouple
over a year ago

North Wales

Given that the UK only finished paying off its human trade* abolition compensation bill from 1833 six years ago, I'd say we'll be paying this one off for a couple of centuries.

*Cant say the S word here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

Double huh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pssssst what do you think about the lizard people or the hollow Earth theory?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

David Icke

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

Flagrante


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

Communist??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people. "

Please tell me that's an ironic thumbs up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(from the ONS)

UK general government gross debt was £2,224.5 billion at the end of financial year ending March 2021, equivalent to 106.0% of gross domestic product (GDP).

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover"

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

Wake up! Beautiful.... Didn't realise covid bingo was back

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century."

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

HM Treasury issued £350 billion in bonds (govt debt). They then ordered the Bank of England to make £350 billion new money (not physically printing notes, digital currency). The govt then used that to buy the bonds (from itself) cancelling the “debt”.

Sounds mad but that’s what happened in very simple terms.

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By *aussageMan
over a year ago

Stalbridge

The money will never be paid back. When did government last back any debts? The cost will be paid for via inflation. Basically the purchasing power of the currency will be destroyed to pay for the millions of stay at home government spongers. In the us 25% of all dollars in circulation we're created in the last year alone. Could you imagine if that continued for another year or two.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"The money will never be paid back. When did government last back any debts? The cost will be paid for via inflation. Basically the purchasing power of the currency will be destroyed to pay for the millions of stay at home government spongers. In the us 25% of all dollars in circulation we're created in the last year alone. Could you imagine if that continued for another year or two."

Inflation - yep

Stay at home government spongers - who exactly are you referring to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We should ask Katie price she's been skint and bankrupt more times than I've had hot dinners

And she still goes on holiday buys a house and has more plastic than Asda has bags

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By *lan157Man
over a year ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex

As far as I am aware government debt is just recycled otherwise we would have been debt free at some point.The issue is that interest on debt has to be paid so more debt means more interest and the interest is paid from current taxation ( or borrow even more to pay it )

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"As far as I am aware government debt is just recycled otherwise we would have been debt free at some point.The issue is that interest on debt has to be paid so more debt means more interest and the interest is paid from current taxation ( or borrow even more to pay it ) "

Yes when the govt borrows from “the market” (in the form of bonds - guaranteed loans with fixed interest over long periods of time).

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By *LIRTWITHUSCouple
over a year ago

Chester

We're building back better tho

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

U.K. spent 8.7 Billion in interest payments last month on central Government debt , the figure was 6 billion higher than at the same time last year largely because nearly half Trillion Government bonds are linked to inflation which is rising ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be close to double the official figure from the government; so for example if they say £400 billion then just double it as it would be closer to £8B.

There was some panic buying of PPE and all sorts ; £40 for a face visor ; the cost of the unused nightandgale hospitals; paying the adverts on media etc etc - its hard to even contemplate the kind of money spent and more to come. Will cripple the economy eventually.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

Are you starting to say that some of those 'conspiracy theorists were right'? Are you 1 of those conspiracy theorists?

What do we have to :wake up' to? It all seems very vague.

As for the £billions, they'll just be amongst the others that are borrowed by the Bank of England. It's prudent to borrow in times of crisis as well as to invest. State finance is not the same as personal budgeting. The £millions and in some instances £billions that get handed out to friends and contacts of those in power, typically without suitable expertise, will certainly have helped with their budgeting through.

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

Hey it's ony money and it's funny.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

What's the disability toll going to cost?

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford


"HM Treasury issued £350 billion in bonds (govt debt). They then ordered the Bank of England to make £350 billion new money (not physically printing notes, digital currency). The govt then used that to buy the bonds (from itself) cancelling the “debt”.

Sounds mad but that’s what happened in very simple terms."

Thereby loading payment of the debt on the population through inflation rather than taxation!

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By *moothCriminal_xMan
over a year ago

Redditch

It will be inflated away. Not an issue. Gov debt isn't really a problem.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Isn't everything free then?

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley


"Isn't everything free then?"

It appears out of thin air. don't you know ,,,,,

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By *hrobbermanMan
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

The "Track and Trace" system developped by Didlo Hardon which is proving so successful cost us £37 Billion. So far. That is nearly double the UK's Primary Care budget.

Eat Out To Help Out cost £700 Million (I didn't get so much as a burger).

Add in Furlough, PPE contracts for Tory Pals, Bounce Back Loans... lost manufacturing production, shop and business closures, human cost of the isolations and despair... the children of our grandchildren will still be serving the interest on those borrowings... Incalculable...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

Are you saying our government are communists?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Isn't everything free then?

It appears out of thin air. don't you know ,,,,,"

I just assumed all those tests and lab work and furlough payments and vaccines and Dr's and nurses were all doing it for free...you mean people were taking money for it... Whatever next. Still at least we were the only country that was affected by it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?"

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now."

Oh so it’s the new world order planning it all?

Hang on, was that a dog whistle I heard?

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By *uffmuncher691on1Man
over a year ago

swansea


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal"

I’d love to to know where you get the average weekly wage of £560 from as it’s no way near that in Wales

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now.

Oh so it’s the new world order planning it all?

Hang on, was that a dog whistle I heard?"

I think I heard it too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As i said earlier i wonder how far this has to go and how bad it has to get before people wake up. I suspect some people never will.

Their choice.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people."

I'd say we're a Zillion miles away from a communist dictatorship.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The greatest trick the government ever played was to convince people national finances are like household finances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As i said earlier i wonder how far this has to go and how bad it has to get before people wake up. I suspect some people never will.

Their choice. "

Are you ok?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"As i said earlier i wonder how far this has to go and how bad it has to get before people wake up. I suspect some people never will.

Their choice. "

Wide awake, thank you. Well informed on many areas of public concern.

Or are you saying that only people who agree with you can be correct?

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now."

So it's the globalists who are the communists?

I thought it was our government.

Guessing the government's of all countries are communists too, baring in mind every single one is in the same situation as us.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"The greatest trick the government ever played was to convince people national finances are like household finances."

Is it really? Did they really? I don't recall anyone from govt ever attempting to explain govt finances... Not even a little bit.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now."

You are so wise... I'd never thought of globalist and communists... I am now woke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The greatest trick the government ever played was to convince people national finances are like household finances.

Is it really? Did they really? I don't recall anyone from govt ever attempting to explain govt finances... Not even a little bit. "

They get their friends in the media to do it, makes it easier to bring in nonsense austerity policies that are politically rather than economically driven.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now.

So it's the globalists who are the communists?

I thought it was our government.

Guessing the government's of all countries are communists too, baring in mind every single one is in the same situation as us.

"

Noooo they are all globalists not communists.. Pay attention

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As i said earlier i wonder how far this has to go and how bad it has to get before people wake up. I suspect some people never will.

Their choice. "
I’m afraid those who are still asleep and detached from reality will remain in a coma as they get their daily fix from the bbc and headlines that make the 6 o clock news - so I have to agree with you on that one; and the vast majority never will wake up. Sad really but that’s the way it is I’m afraid;

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By *moothCriminal_xMan
over a year ago

Redditch

Gov debt is purchased in the form of bonds. The bonds pay interest. This isnt like household debt - or else its like buying a house in the 80s and paying interest only for 30 years at about 3%. Your 40k house is now worth 400k and the debt of 40k is easily repaid because it has basically been inflated away.

The tory lie about "we cant afford public spending" has poisoned the brains of 2 generations

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As i said earlier i wonder how far this has to go and how bad it has to get before people wake up. I suspect some people never will.

Their choice. I’m afraid those who are still asleep and detached from reality will remain in a coma as they get their daily fix from the bbc and headlines that make the 6 o clock news - so I have to agree with you on that one; and the vast majority never will wake up. Sad really but that’s the way it is I’m afraid;"

Shit, I’d best start watching YouTube videos and reading Facebook so I can get red pilled

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

It's a good idea to say this bollocks out loud, record it and play it back to yourself.

Doesn't take long to realise how nonsensical it sounds.

At which you should decide it's better not to post it and make yourself sound like a whackadoodle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal"

Is that really the average wage. I need a pay rise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Is that really the average wage. I need a pay rise "

The average wage doesn’t tell us much, we need to look more at the mode than the mean. What counts is the amount most people are paid not the average.

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By *udistcpl1Couple
over a year ago

Wirral

Don't worry. Everybody is in the same shite. Tories might use it as another excuse to abuse half the workforce but lets just be clear. Them bastards don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. And before anybody comments, no I am not a red or yellow supporter.

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Maybe if those that benefitted from all the contracts that ended up producing worthless equipment that wasn’t fit for purpose, paid back the money the debt would’ve be so bad.

An audit into where the money went may prove to be interesting reading.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Don't worry. Everybody is in the same shite. Tories might use it as another excuse to abuse half the workforce but lets just be clear. Them bastards don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. And before anybody comments, no I am not a red or yellow supporter."

Who are them bastards?

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover"

Well Income tax base rate is going to rise from 20p to 29p & how we will start to pay it back taking around 10 years

66 billion spent on furlough scheme (Rishi Sunak) thats 1 million per person (I didn’t see any of that)

400 billion ‘borrowed’ from financial institutions in high interest bonds (8.9 billion paid last month on over 2 trillion debt we have)

The government opening the first centralised uk bank ( not the Bank of England)

Money to start the bank came from the government!

To start lending to the government? Wtf

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14064492/

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location


"As far as I am aware government debt is just recycled otherwise we would have been debt free at some point.The issue is that interest on debt has to be paid so more debt means more interest and the interest is paid from current taxation ( or borrow even more to pay it ) "

2000/01

The last budget surplus was in 2000/01. The average annual budget deficit has been 3.6% of GDP since 1970

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By *omerset tvTV/TS
over a year ago

Weston-super-Mare


"It won't be paid back in my lifetime. Future generations will suffer."

your right there we have only just finished paying of the debt from world war 2 a couple of years ago

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location


"It won't be paid back in my lifetime. Future generations will suffer.

your right there we have only just finished paying of the debt from world war 2 a couple of years ago "

On 31 December 2006, Britain made a final payment of about $83m (£45.5m) and thereby discharged the last of its war loans from the US

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

The real cost is the unnecessary deaths due to inept government policy.

With 3 covid variants entering the country plus one if our own. Borders open all the way through the pandemic.

Like I have said in a previous post

It is a pantomime.

It is behind you.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"It won't be paid back in my lifetime. Future generations will suffer.

your right there we have only just finished paying of the debt from world war 2 a couple of years ago "

And that's a problem in what way? How did that process impact on your / our lives?

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Well Income tax base rate is going to rise from 20p to 29p & how we will start to pay it back taking around 10 years

66 billion spent on furlough scheme (Rishi Sunak) thats 1 million per person (I didn’t see any of that)

400 billion ‘borrowed’ from financial institutions in high interest bonds (8.9 billion paid last month on over 2 trillion debt we have)

The government opening the first centralised uk bank ( not the Bank of England)

Money to start the bank came from the government!

To start lending to the government? Wtf

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14064492/

"

How the fuck could furlough cost a million per person in the UK . Almost half the population aren’t of working age so that’s 2 million per worker and I’m guessing no more than 20% of workers got furloughed so that’s something like £10 million for each person furloughed. Not saying you are wrong but that number makes no sense, where did all the money go??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal"

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?"

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Well Income tax base rate is going to rise from 20p to 29p & how we will start to pay it back taking around 10 years

66 billion spent on furlough scheme (Rishi Sunak) thats 1 million per person (I didn’t see any of that)

400 billion ‘borrowed’ from financial institutions in high interest bonds (8.9 billion paid last month on over 2 trillion debt we have)

The government opening the first centralised uk bank ( not the Bank of England)

Money to start the bank came from the government!

To start lending to the government? Wtf

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14064492/

How the fuck could furlough cost a million per person in the UK . Almost half the population aren’t of working age so that’s 2 million per worker and I’m guessing no more than 20% of workers got furloughed so that’s something like £10 million for each person furloughed. Not saying you are wrong but that number makes no sense, where did all the money go??"

That’s a question for Rishi Sunak to answer as he stated on tv that they spent 66 billion on furlough

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Communist??"

Shhhhh…. I was enjoying my sleep , I’m a tired little lamb

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Well Income tax base rate is going to rise from 20p to 29p & how we will start to pay it back taking around 10 years

66 billion spent on furlough scheme (Rishi Sunak) thats 1 million per person (I didn’t see any of that)

400 billion ‘borrowed’ from financial institutions in high interest bonds (8.9 billion paid last month on over 2 trillion debt we have)

The government opening the first centralised uk bank ( not the Bank of England)

Money to start the bank came from the government!

To start lending to the government? Wtf

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14064492/

How the fuck could furlough cost a million per person in the UK . Almost half the population aren’t of working age so that’s 2 million per worker and I’m guessing no more than 20% of workers got furloughed so that’s something like £10 million for each person furloughed. Not saying you are wrong but that number makes no sense, where did all the money go??"

also, we know that fab likes statements backed up

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cityam.com/rishi-sunaks-furlough-extension-to-cost-6-2bn-a-month/amp/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Well Income tax base rate is going to rise from 20p to 29p & how we will start to pay it back taking around 10 years

66 billion spent on furlough scheme (Rishi Sunak) thats 1 million per person (I didn’t see any of that)

400 billion ‘borrowed’ from financial institutions in high interest bonds (8.9 billion paid last month on over 2 trillion debt we have)

The government opening the first centralised uk bank ( not the Bank of England)

Money to start the bank came from the government!

To start lending to the government? Wtf

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14064492/

How the fuck could furlough cost a million per person in the UK . Almost half the population aren’t of working age so that’s 2 million per worker and I’m guessing no more than 20% of workers got furloughed so that’s something like £10 million for each person furloughed. Not saying you are wrong but that number makes no sense, where did all the money go??"

Are we perhaps confusing a British billion with the commonly used (and now standard) American billion?

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!"
Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ? "

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can. "

There's a certain group of people in this country who are for some reason obssessed with wars, WWII in particular. They were inevitably not alive when it happened and live heroically through the deeds of relatives but somehow seem to think that they know what war is.

Might have veered slightlyu off topic there.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can. "
It’s good to know as a country how much more in debt we are in , can’t see why you would not want to know ?

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By *lenderfoxMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!"

Debt to GDP peaked at 270% post war, it's less than 100% currently

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This extra funding required to support government coronavirus support schemes combined with reduced cash receipts and a fall in GDP pushed Debt to GDP to over 100 per cent, it is now two and half times higher than at the end of the financial year ending 2008 the year of the global financial crisis ,ONS

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Are you saying our government are communists?

Im saying they are the group of globalists at the top who have seen how easy its been for a few hundred people in china to completly control its 2 billion population. So im saying they have just started to use communist tactics and this will be ramped up massivly before the end of this year. We will all be on the chinese style social credit score, be good boys and girls including getting your 2 or 3 jabs every year (at our expense from next year) and we will let you exist, refuse and, well look what happens to resisting Chinese people. All planned a long time ago. There is a lot more to it but that will do for now."

So why do so many of the people that spout the same nonsense as you vote for Johnson and the Tories then?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As far as I am aware government debt is just recycled otherwise we would have been debt free at some point.The issue is that interest on debt has to be paid so more debt means more interest and the interest is paid from current taxation ( or borrow even more to pay it )

2000/01

The last budget surplus was in 2000/01. The average annual budget deficit has been 3.6% of GDP since 1970

"

Actually in 2019.. 0.23% of GDP

But it needs to be remembered that a national budget in credit means several things.

The public sector is not spending as much.

So: the private sector must be, if the economy is not in crisis.

Cut in healthcare budgets means wages cut, or stay static, of the staff, which means they are not spending as much, so the economy suffers. It is called the economic multiplier.

People tend to not consider the cause/effect of govt budget deficit/credit.

If, for instance, the govt spends nothing, the countries economy would collapse.

If the govt severely cuts its spending, the economy slows-down. A cut in govt spending ripples along all sectors of the economy, the wave growing as it proceeds.

Try reading about Sectoral Balances (wiki is useful) and Economic Multipliers..

Also worth noting that if the private sector goes into saving mode, the gvt becomes the "spender of last resort"

No spending by anybody means no economic activity. The ultimate depression.

It's interesting to try to balance the thinking of three major economics minds, Keynes, Hayek and Marx.

And if you think that the UK govt debt of £2.55 trillion is big...dwell on the USA deficit of $28 trillion.

It's all just numbers. Govt debt is a useful investment. Fiat money. You'll note that the inflation is going up...so is govt income as a result...the trick is controlling inflation so it does not go up too far, or fast.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can. It’s good to know as a country how much more in debt we are in , can’t see why you would not want to know ? "

It's not that I don't want to know. But not everyone needs to know everything. And not everyone understands what the fuck it means or whta if anything they can do about it. Just banging on keep saying it's really shit... Its even more shit than its ever been does nothing for nobody.

What are you going to do now you are armed with that information? What does it change in your life knowing it? I find it bizarre the need people have for stuff over which they have zero control and which makes zero difference in their lives if it was 10 times smaller or 10 times bigger.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can. "

The comparison to WW2 was purely as a handy historical reference to a major event causing massive damage to society that most people today have some slight knowledge of, even if very few remain for whom it was personal experience. The point being that the debt from WW2 wasn't paid off for more than 70 years. The covid debt appears to be (in inflation adjusted terms) at least double the size of the WW2 debt, so there can be an expectation that it will take at least a comparable period to pay off, if not longer. In other words, anybody expecting that covid will be paid off in 5 to 10 years is sadly mistaken, it will be more like an order of magnitude longer.

The other suggested comparisons - channel tunnel, nhs, national grid, underground system, defense budget - as largely invalid as these are all investments in infrastructure or services rather than being pure debt.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


" This extra funding required to support government coronavirus support schemes combined with reduced cash receipts and a fall in GDP pushed Debt to GDP to over 100 per cent, it is now two and half times higher than at the end of the financial year ending 2008 the year of the global financial crisis ,ONS "

Gosh. I better do something. No idea what though...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can.

The comparison to WW2 was purely as a handy historical reference to a major event causing massive damage to society that most people today have some slight knowledge of, even if very few remain for whom it was personal experience. The point being that the debt from WW2 wasn't paid off for more than 70 years. The covid debt appears to be (in inflation adjusted terms) at least double the size of the WW2 debt, so there can be an expectation that it will take at least a comparable period to pay off, if not longer. In other words, anybody expecting that covid will be paid off in 5 to 10 years is sadly mistaken, it will be more like an order of magnitude longer.

The other suggested comparisons - channel tunnel, nhs, national grid, underground system, defense budget - as largely invalid as these are all investments in infrastructure or services rather than being pure debt."

Who did we owe the WWII debt to?

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By *oncupiscent_dreamMan
over a year ago

City


"

Who did we owe the WWII debt to?"

America. America was reluctant to get involved so the UK made a bet with them. They issued them bonds and said "if we win the war these will be worth billions, if we lose they will be worth nothing". IE if USA helped UK win, they would get a lot of money. The USA took the bet.

Meanwhile Ireland sent over 100,000 people to fight in British army, and over 10,000 died. Asked for nothing in return, not even one pence.

After war, Churchill called the Irish cowards, and the Americans the great hero and freind of the UK.

Also besides money, the UK became a five eyes partner and allowed the CIA/NSA to operate in the UK, they agreed to be bound to secret decisions among the five eye groups. This is why the UK backed America in Afghanistan and no one else in the EU did. The UK got no money from America for helping there, and during that period America tried to crash Barclays Bank. So when all added up the cost of lives and additional wars etc the cost is staggering to the UK. They will have to partake in USA wars for the rest of our lives, maybe forever.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can.

The comparison to WW2 was purely as a handy historical reference to a major event causing massive damage to society that most people today have some slight knowledge of, even if very few remain for whom it was personal experience. The point being that the debt from WW2 wasn't paid off for more than 70 years. The covid debt appears to be (in inflation adjusted terms) at least double the size of the WW2 debt, so there can be an expectation that it will take at least a comparable period to pay off, if not longer. In other words, anybody expecting that covid will be paid off in 5 to 10 years is sadly mistaken, it will be more like an order of magnitude longer.

The other suggested comparisons - channel tunnel, nhs, national grid, underground system, defense budget - as largely invalid as these are all investments in infrastructure or services rather than being pure debt.

Who did we owe the WWII debt to?"

Dunno, wasn't me that applied for the loan (though there are some mornings when I wake up feeling nearly old enough!). I'm guessing the USA? I doubt that we would have been able to get a credit line with Germany or Japan...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover"

Its cost a fortune but major incidents (war, disease, etc) always cost lots and take decades if not centuries to pay down.

Thankfully its not like personal debt and over a 100 year period inflation will reduce the debt burden and for the individual it will probably equate to an extra couple of quid in tax per month.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Apparently we borrowed £300,000,000,000 last year and are expected to borrow another £200,000,000,000 this year. That's £500 billion altogether, half a trillion pounds. Plus whatever has been spent out of money that we didn't have to borrow. Plus whatever we have to borrow next year, as it looks unlikely that this is anywhere near over yet.

In context, this is roughly equivalent to the entire total tax take for the year 2019-2020. Also by contrast the WW2 debt - "By the end of World War II Britain had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion." (wikipedia). I believe we were something like 70 years paying off the WW2 debt.

This is why some of us were condemning the government for not acting quickly at the start, when for a relatively modest cost it would have been possible to stop all flights and instigate quarantine procedures for returning travellers, before even the first case got into this country. I seem to remember someone asking me in late February 2020 "who is going to pay the millions to cover the air fare repayments, and who is going to pay for the hotel rooms to do the quarantines?". Right now a hundred million or so to have avoided all the lockdowns would have been a damn good bargain.

Whatever, I think it is highly likely that the UK will not be able to pay off the covid debt before the end of this century.

I don't think you can really compare debts from 1945. In 1945 the average weekly wage was below £6. Now it is about £560

Cal

Very true, do we know what the adjusted for inflation debt from WW2 was?

Answering my own question - it’s 225 billion!!Uk is Half a Trillion more in debt since Covid lockdown started , so more than WW2 on your figures ?

Why the comparison to ww2? Why not ww1? Or euro tunnel.? Or the nhs.? Or the national grid.? Or the underground system? Or the defence budget? Im a bit lost with the need to compare it to anything let alone ww2.

We know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Our job now is to do the best we can to recover our community and we'll being ad best we can.

The comparison to WW2 was purely as a handy historical reference to a major event causing massive damage to society that most people today have some slight knowledge of, even if very few remain for whom it was personal experience. The point being that the debt from WW2 wasn't paid off for more than 70 years. The covid debt appears to be (in inflation adjusted terms) at least double the size of the WW2 debt, so there can be an expectation that it will take at least a comparable period to pay off, if not longer. In other words, anybody expecting that covid will be paid off in 5 to 10 years is sadly mistaken, it will be more like an order of magnitude longer.

The other suggested comparisons - channel tunnel, nhs, national grid, underground system, defense budget - as largely invalid as these are all investments in infrastructure or services rather than being pure debt.

Who did we owe the WWII debt to?

Dunno, wasn't me that applied for the loan (though there are some mornings when I wake up feeling nearly old enough!). I'm guessing the USA? I doubt that we would have been able to get a credit line with Germany or Japan..."

I believe it was the US, who have we borrowed from during Covid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Who did we owe the WWII debt to?

Dunno, wasn't me that applied for the loan (though there are some mornings when I wake up feeling nearly old enough!). I'm guessing the USA? I doubt that we would have been able to get a credit line with Germany or Japan..."

Government debt is sold on the open market, so if you have a private pension it is likely your savings will have been invested in to buying some of that debt to provide a retirement income that is pretty garaunteed.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Its cost a fortune but major incidents (war, disease, etc) always cost lots and take decades if not centuries to pay down.

Thankfully its not like personal debt and over a 100 year period inflation will reduce the debt burden and for the individual it will probably equate to an extra couple of quid in tax per month. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most UK government gilts are owned by British institutions, and some by UK households. They get the interest payments.

UK insurance companies and pension funds own almost a third: about 30%.

The Bank of England owns about a quarter.

Other UK financial institutions like banks own 17%, just over a sixth.

Another quarter of the government’s debts, about 27%, are owed to foreign institutions. That’s called the UK’s external debt, and the interest payments go outside the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover"

Don't panic Mr Mannering.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Don't panic Mr Mannering. "
2.2 Trillion National debt and rising nothing to be worried about ? It’s not like the U.K. has got any chance of paying it off in any off our lifetimes

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Its cost a fortune but major incidents (war, disease, etc) always cost lots and take decades if not centuries to pay down.

Thankfully its not like personal debt and over a 100 year period inflation will reduce the debt burden and for the individual it will probably equate to an extra couple of quid in tax per month. "

What's the rush? Is it not true that eg in Japan and some scandie countries they have multi generational mortgages...? We need to take a much longer term view... Over centuries rather than decades... Just like those dodgy bankers people are referring to....

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I'm sure that freezing public sector pay for another 10 years is the key policy to fix it all.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"HM Treasury issued £350 billion in bonds (govt debt). They then ordered the Bank of England to make £350 billion new money (not physically printing notes, digital currency). The govt then used that to buy the bonds (from itself) cancelling the “debt”.

Sounds mad but that’s what happened in very simple terms.

Thereby loading payment of the debt on the population through inflation rather than taxation! "

Just seen this and yes indeed!

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Don't panic Mr Mannering. 2.2 Trillion National debt and rising nothing to be worried about ? It’s not like the U.K. has got any chance of paying it off in any off our lifetimes "

In a way it kind of isn’t. There is no need to even attempt to pay off in our life times. As has been explained here by some clearly informed and eloquent fabbers, Govt debt is paid back over hugely extended periods of time. In this case a chunk of this debt was actually already bought back by HM Govt by getting BoE to “make money”. So we will have inflation as a result.

To cover interest payments on the outstanding debt there will need to be a modest income tax and corporation tax increase. However, this Govt will ALSO use the “we have such huge debt” rhetoric to justify further austerity which is actually a political rather than purely economic decision (someone above talks about the actual need for Govt spending).

Conveniently for this Govt all of this will also help to mask the negative economic impact of Brexit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Don't panic Mr Mannering. 2.2 Trillion National debt and rising nothing to be worried about ? It’s not like the U.K. has got any chance of paying it off in any off our lifetimes

In a way it kind of isn’t. There is no need to even attempt to pay off in our life times. As has been explained here by some clearly informed and eloquent fabbers, Govt debt is paid back over hugely extended periods of time. In this case a chunk of this debt was actually already bought back by HM Govt by getting BoE to “make money”. So we will have inflation as a result.

To cover interest payments on the outstanding debt there will need to be a modest income tax and corporation tax increase. However, this Govt will ALSO use the “we have such huge debt” rhetoric to justify further austerity which is actually a political rather than purely economic decision (someone above talks about the actual need for Govt spending).

Conveniently for this Govt all of this will also help to mask the negative economic impact of Brexit."

THIS

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Don't panic Mr Mannering. 2.2 Trillion National debt and rising nothing to be worried about ? It’s not like the U.K. has got any chance of paying it off in any off our lifetimes

In a way it kind of isn’t. There is no need to even attempt to pay off in our life times. As has been explained here by some clearly informed and eloquent fabbers, Govt debt is paid back over hugely extended periods of time. In this case a chunk of this debt was actually already bought back by HM Govt by getting BoE to “make money”. So we will have inflation as a result.

To cover interest payments on the outstanding debt there will need to be a modest income tax and corporation tax increase. However, this Govt will ALSO use the “we have such huge debt” rhetoric to justify further austerity which is actually a political rather than purely economic decision (someone above talks about the actual need for Govt spending).

Conveniently for this Govt all of this will also help to mask the negative economic impact of Brexit."

I think it could be used as a get out of jail free card for Brexit and anything else that they push onto the people, where they fail again.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

We were nearly 1 trillion in debt before covid despite the mmuch hyped "Austerity" and the thing that worries us more is that people will once again believe the complete twaddle about the debt and vote for even more cuts etc etc so wrecking the country even more and a case in point a few years back we were paying out nearly £28 billion in rent benefit and no doubt it's set to climb even higher and even scarier is bnearly 50% of people in receipt of universal credit are actually working ?? hard days ahead as the lemming lead us all over the cliff of austerity for the few 2.0 and the way out is to invest but far easier to sell ..it's just like running your home so....??? which it isn't but plays far better ??? and if else fails it will be someone elses fault knowing this lot and Boris will lie and lie again and the sun will come up ..

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


" We were nearly 1 trillion in debt before covid despite the mmuch hyped "Austerity" and the thing that worries us more is that people will once again believe the complete twaddle about the debt and vote for even more cuts etc etc so wrecking the country even more and a case in point a few years back we were paying out nearly £28 billion in rent benefit and no doubt it's set to climb even higher and even scarier is bnearly 50% of people in receipt of universal credit are actually working ?? hard days ahead as the lemming lead us all over the cliff of austerity for the few 2.0 and the way out is to invest but far easier to sell ..it's just like running your home so....??? which it isn't but plays far better ??? and if else fails it will be someone elses fault knowing this lot and Boris will lie and lie again and the sun will come up .."
Actually the U.K. is 2.2 Trillion in debt and it’s going up with record borrowing, we are one of only 4 major countries where National debt exceed s 1 years GDP

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

U.K. Trillion is 1,000,000 billions whatever that is

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"U.K. Trillion is 1,000,000 billions whatever that is "

When it comes to financial markets and transactions (inc govt financial planning etc) I am pretty sure that the world is consistent in using thousand million as a billion and a thousand billion as a trillion.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

The point we were making is we were already nearly 1 trillion in debt before covid ?? and our m8 dave got caught a fair few times trying to massage the figures and even got told he was a very very naughty boy for lying on a advert about the debt level ?? and so this lot will try to hide that sum amongst the covid debt figures and agreed we have a pile of debt and to think it was Labour that bankrupted the country and then they were going to Bankrupt the country and sadly all the cuts have led us to this and we were very poorly prepared !

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"U.K. Trillion is 1,000,000 billions whatever that is "

This was the historical definition of the trillion in England. More properly known as the long scale trillion - on the long scale each increment from a million goes up by a factor of a million.

However since 1974 all financial, statistical and scientific documents in the UK have officially used the USA trillion (and billion), otherwise known as the short scale trillion. On the short scale each increment from a million goes up by a factor of only a thousand.

Most of the English speaking world uses the short scale billion, trillion, quadrillion allowing direct comparison of UK and USA numbers. However the long scale billion, trillion is still in common usage in many non-english speaking countries.

Possibly we should have a fab million, billion, trillion, quadrillion which would involve measuring in lynx cans and sky remotes...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Double huh? "

It ended “wake up people”.... that means it was a really serious point

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By *heNaturistCoupleCouple
over a year ago

crewe


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover

Don't panic Mr Mannering. 2.2 Trillion National debt and rising nothing to be worried about ? It’s not like the U.K. has got any chance of paying it off in any off our lifetimes

In a way it kind of isn’t. There is no need to even attempt to pay off in our life times. As has been explained here by some clearly informed and eloquent fabbers, Govt debt is paid back over hugely extended periods of time. In this case a chunk of this debt was actually already bought back by HM Govt by getting BoE to “make money”. So we will have inflation as a result.

To cover interest payments on the outstanding debt there will need to be a modest income tax and corporation tax increase. "

The inflation bit is where it will get tricky, not enough and we can't pay it back, too much and nobody wants to borrow to you because their original outlay was worth more than they got back in purchasing power and that requires interest rate rises and people with huge debt can't afford interest rate rises and "modest increases" I think that's optimistic at best, growth could see the UK out of the problem but growth under the new climate change scenario seems mighty challenging?.

I think the short story is we're in for a long period of hard times to come.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so how much has this covid cost, think of all the furlough people, others not contributing to the econamy, free vaccines for all, it must be in the high billions, how are we ever going to pay for this, and more scary who do we owe the money to?

we were in debt as a country before all this, so i dread to think how bad it is now, can we recover"

Have you considered what the economic state would be had we have ignored covid and carried on as normal?

The general consensus in the financial world is we would be in a far worst state than we are now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just wonder how far along this communist dictatorship road we have to go before people start saying, oh maybe those "conspiricy theorists" were right.

I dont think some people would realise under any circumstances. Wake up people.

Double huh?

It ended “wake up people”.... that means it was a really serious point "

No, just a serious point, if he was REALLY serious he'd have written sheeple.

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