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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed " Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know" You don't know if they had any underlying issues | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed " I was thinking , how many of these poor people weren’t double jabbed? | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know You don't know if they had any underlying issues" Im sorry Forum police. I worded it incorrectly. I should have said The jab doesn't stop you getting it but helps if they have underlying issues. Is that better. I feel a ban coming on | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know You don't know if they had any underlying issues Im sorry Forum police. I worded it incorrectly. I should have said The jab doesn't stop you getting it but helps if they have underlying issues. Is that better. I feel a ban coming on " It isn't my fault you wrote it wrong, no need for the tantrum, most adults would just accept they wrote it wrong and correct it without the silly comments | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down?" Something odd seems to be going on with the figures at the moment, also for three days running the deaths have not been available so maybe this amount is from other days, who knows. | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down? Something odd seems to be going on with the figures at the moment, also for three days running the deaths have not been available so maybe this amount is from other days, who knows. " I might correct that to "also for three days running the deaths have not been available until very late " | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down?" Positive cases are, deaths are going up | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 27/07/21 18:37:05]" Cant be bothered to tiresome to argue | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know You don't know if they had any underlying issues Im sorry Forum police. I worded it incorrectly. I should have said The jab doesn't stop you getting it but helps if they have underlying issues. Is that better. I feel a ban coming on It isn't my fault you wrote it wrong, no need for the tantrum, most adults would just accept they wrote it wrong and correct it without the silly comments " Did I say it was. I was making a point as you did. | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down? Positive cases are, deaths are going up " There’s always 3 stages within spikes, first infections will rise, about 2 weeks later we will see hospitalisations start from those who covid takes a serious hold of, within a further 2 weeks those who deteriorate will start doing so and deaths will start, depending on patients this could last for weeks and months. The important thing with the current moment is infections are reducing and therefore our admissions in two weeks time will be less, let’s hope this continues | |||
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"Let's all hope we have peaked and jabs keep hospital and deaths down " Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment, people are still being Hospitalised and put on ventilators | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know" I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed " We have another one  | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. " Good point Charli Grace  | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. " Perfectly said. | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu." yeah. I've got a normally very fit and healthy 15 year old who has been utterly floored by covid ( caught from her step sister, who seems caught it from a school trip) I've has to isolate her to the top floor of the house and make her disabled very vulnerable sister sleep down stairs. I'm terrified that her sister despite being double vaccinated will succumb as her survival rate pre vaccination was apparently not that good. I however due to new changes in self isolating have to go to work and work with vulnerable people. ( go figure) I do have to have a lft before every shift and temperature checks. | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down? Positive cases are, deaths are going up " That includes globally | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know You don't know if they had any underlying issues" Please read the article on this topic regarding why the percentage of people dieing with both jabs is what is it. In fact it's higher then those who have had one or no jabs. It makes perfect sense why this is happening and we should not get alarmed etc. Its on this forum. Just have to scroll down to find it. | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed Does it matter. They have died for whatever reason. The jab doesn't stop you getting it just helps if you do. They have had underlying issues . Sad I know You don't know if they had any underlying issues Please read the article on this topic regarding why the percentage of people dieing with both jabs is what is it. In fact it's higher then those who have had one or no jabs. It makes perfect sense why this is happening and we should not get alarmed etc. Its on this forum. Just have to scroll down to find it. " Please read my post. It had nothing to do with double jabbed | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu." Yes we all thought that at first. But you need to know that flu is deadly when left unchecked. Hence the Pandemics that have have left millions dead over the years. Vaccines save lives. That's why I'm grateful for the flu jab. | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed " did you find out how many were ?? | |||
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"50 people died on the roll out of the swine flu vaccine.. They stopped the vaccine.. How many deaths of this experimental treatment will there be, before they stop this one.. In my opinion I say now. " Fancy backing that claim up with facts? | |||
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"50 people died on the roll out of the swine flu vaccine.. They stopped the vaccine.. How many deaths of this experimental treatment will there be, before they stop this one.. In my opinion I say now. " You come out with some nonsense.....theres been billions of jabs with these proven vaccines,that yes....like anything in life,risks are there but there very vety low....you can thank all the folk who have or are getting there vaccines...cause they will seriously help you and your anti folk out big time through this major worldwide pandemic....read the facts buddy....vaccines save lives...ppl xhoose yo do so for themselves,there family and there fellow humans... be nice and positive  | |||
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"I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. " Thank for helping me understand why the phrase "underlying health conditions" didn't sit right with me. It's always felt so dismissive and reductionist. A bit like how the term "collateral damage" is used to obfuscate in softer language the men, women and child casualties of a bombing campaign. Now I know why I hate it. It's the same doublespeak. Thank you, Charli. | |||
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"I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. Thank for helping me understand why the phrase "underlying health conditions" didn't sit right with me. It's always felt so dismissive and reductionist. A bit like how the term "collateral damage" is used to obfuscate in softer language the men, women and child casualties of a bombing campaign. Now I know why I hate it. It's the same doublespeak. Thank you, Charli. " so what terminology should they use instead of using underlying health conditions? Either they do have or do not have underlying conditions so I don’t understand why you are suggesting that they should just omit it all together. | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion " So how many doses were given to get to 50 deaths.. just curious? So we are talking 50 deaths which is unfortunate… but in the UK we are talking about 35-40 million people in the UK have had the vaccine… | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion " But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. | |||
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"50 people died on the roll out of the swine flu vaccine.. They stopped the vaccine.. How many deaths of this experimental treatment will there be, before they stop this one.. In my opinion I say now. " Unless you are suitably qualified your opinion ain’t worth a dog turd.... | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu. yeah. I've got a normally very fit and healthy 15 year old who has been utterly floored by covid ( caught from her step sister, who seems caught it from a school trip) I've has to isolate her to the top floor of the house and make her disabled very vulnerable sister sleep down stairs. I'm terrified that her sister despite being double vaccinated will succumb as her survival rate pre vaccination was apparently not that good. I however due to new changes in self isolating have to go to work and work with vulnerable people. ( go figure) I do have to have a lft before every shift and temperature checks." You are in my thoughts | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. " everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu. yeah. I've got a normally very fit and healthy 15 year old who has been utterly floored by covid ( caught from her step sister, who seems caught it from a school trip) I've has to isolate her to the top floor of the house and make her disabled very vulnerable sister sleep down stairs. I'm terrified that her sister despite being double vaccinated will succumb as her survival rate pre vaccination was apparently not that good. I however due to new changes in self isolating have to go to work and work with vulnerable people. ( go figure) I do have to have a lft before every shift and temperature checks. You are in my thoughts" thanks. I am more worried that If I catch it from my daughter it could spread around the home I work in... I understand the changing rules but I think for care home it's not right x but if I choose to stay off I can get paid as i am now exempt from isolating unless I test positive | |||
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"I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. Thank for helping me understand why the phrase "underlying health conditions" didn't sit right with me. It's always felt so dismissive and reductionist. A bit like how the term "collateral damage" is used to obfuscate in softer language the men, women and child casualties of a bombing campaign. Now I know why I hate it. It's the same doublespeak. Thank you, Charli. so what terminology should they use instead of using underlying health conditions? Either they do have or do not have underlying conditions so I don’t understand why you are suggesting that they should just omit it all together. " There’s nothing wrong with the terminology, as someone on one of the busiest covid wards in the North West we know it’s value to flag patients with asthma, copd, heart issues etc so that we can aggressively treat them as soon as they enter care. What people do need to do is to stop using that statistic as a skewed justification. It’s not published for the general public to assume that if they have no issue they are safe from covid which is how quite often on these forums it’s presented. It’s published to understand the likely outcomes, beyond the top line statistics it’s published to identify the most at risk individuals in all age groups. If you want the harsh truth, those not over 80 (who at that age almost certainly have some form of underlying condition) can usually be kept alive until covid has passed. That doesn’t however mean they jump up and walk away. Think of Kate Galloway husband, he’s not a one off, there’s three times plus the amount of survivors compared to the National death tally with horrifically bleak futures. They have survived ventilation but for how long and with what quality of life? Many of them entered hospitals as very fit and capable humans, they left ruined and the effects will be permanent. I’ve lost count of the number of individuals leaving our wards with 20-30% lung function and a life that requires daily oxygen, they come from all generations, all health backgrounds. | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. " Always with a snide comment at the end,
I was just pointing out that it was said that the swine flu vaccine had gone through all the same tests but unfortunately they lied, the mother of my child is a nurse hasn’t had the covid vaccine because of the Swine flu debacle she remembers her friends being coerced into reviving the Pandemrix vaccine with the same bull that it had been through all the usual tests just sped up
2 of her close friends are no longer working in the nhs or allowed to drive because they now are narcoleptic, just a fact you can’t argue with so I’m sure you’ll throw a few more snide comments around to make you feel superior  | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. " News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Did you actually read the article professor | |||
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"Tbh I’m not sure so I’ll leave that for you to find out I’m sure if you are interested it shouldn’t be hard to find I was just pointing out government and pharmaceutical company’s have a history of lying about vaccines in the past and people should be rightly hesitant in taking something rushed you can spout the same nonsense that this has gone through all the usual tests just sped up because of the PaNdEmIC that lie has been used before " | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu." For the majority it no worse than the flu | |||
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"And yet there are people thinking that Covid is no worse than a bout of flu. For the majority it no worse than the flu" | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown" Some “opinions” carry far more weight and worth than others. If I need brain surgery I want the opinion of a suitable qualified doctor not that of my dog! | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown Some “opinions” carry far more weight and worth than others. If I need brain surgery I want the opinion of a suitable qualified doctor not that of my dog!" | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown Some “opinions” carry far more weight and worth than others. If I need brain surgery I want the opinion of a suitable qualified doctor not that of my dog!" Personal insults show that you have no answer, I don’t claim to be a qualified dr just sharing links and real life experiences if you have no constructive thoughts you may as well go hide away from us “dogs” and go listen to people in your echo chamber, funnily enough the word dogs was used to dehumanise a certain group in the 30’s  | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown Some “opinions” carry far more weight and worth than others. If I need brain surgery I want the opinion of a suitable qualified doctor not that of my dog!" One of the most dangerous ideas that has come about in the last few years is that all opinions and points of view are equally valid and the average citizen is just as equipped to judge which have merit as well as anyone else. “Hear all sides and judge for yourself!!!!” No. I do not condone the death of expertise and neither should anyone else. I am an expert in very few things. But in those areas my expertise is hard earned through study, work, experience, research and aptitude. None of it comes from attending Google University or Facebook College. But unless you are an expert in exactly the same areas your opinion is simply not just as valid as mine. It’s just not. And my opinion is not as valid as experts in other fields. That is why “they” and not “I” are the experts. If our leading experts agree that A is correct and a couple of discredited Doctors, or a self-appointed YouTube/Facebook expert makes a video that says B is correct, our response shouldn’t be “I’ll listen to both sides and decide what makes sense to me”. 1) If you yourself aren’t an expert, what qualifies you to determine which is correct?2)Confirmation bias exists. (And only fools think they are free of it) To paraphrase Asimov, “your ignorance is not the same as their experience”. Genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves. And those smart people aren’t to be found posting YouTube videos from a room above their parents garage, while wearing only their pants. | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion But all covid vaccines have undergone rigorous testing. This particular swine flu vaccine hadn't. Massive difference there, professor. everyones opinion on here has the same worth, it is an opinion. the 'vaccine' has no long term testing, eg pregnancy, post pregnancy is unknown Some “opinions” carry far more weight and worth than others. If I need brain surgery I want the opinion of a suitable qualified doctor not that of my dog! Personal insults show that you have no answer, I don’t claim to be a qualified dr just sharing links and real life experiences if you have no constructive thoughts you may as well go hide away from us “dogs” and go listen to people in your echo chamber, funnily enough the word dogs was used to dehumanise a certain group in the 30’s "You’re right, you don’t have to be a qualified doctor to share an opinion but what you should do is respect the view of a qualified doctor if someone links to it, especially if that qualified doctor is an epidemiologist or virologist. However saying that your opinion is not worth a damn in comparison to that of the aforementioned experts is not a personal insult, it is reality. You might not like it but life is full of such moments, the important thing is that you accept your limitations and not cry about it. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place " Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher." The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? " What was it about the swine flu vaccine given more than 45 years ago that you had a problem with. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? " Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. | |||
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"Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, told BuzzFeed News it was “a matter of huge concern” that the vaccine had not been properly tested, contrary to what he was told at the time. Quote from article in case you can’t be bothered to read something that contradicts your opinion " thank you London man. I only post fact. They don't like it unless they see it on the lying BBC and Sky news. And they won't research it. Once again thank you. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? What was it about the swine flu vaccine given more than 45 years ago that you had a problem with." I’m talking about the one in 2009 or have you not read the article | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? What was it about the swine flu vaccine given more than 45 years ago that you had a problem with." The date was 23 November 2009 and Gallagher was one of thousands of NHS staff vaccinated with Pandemrix, a vaccine made by pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? What was it about the swine flu vaccine given more than 45 years ago that you had a problem with. The date was 23 November 2009 and Gallagher was one of thousands of NHS staff vaccinated with Pandemrix, a vaccine made by pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). " That’s right and many of the people injected with the swine flu vaccine are now embroiled in a court case as they are suffering from incurable narcolepsy. | |||
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"I know you’ve corrected this quote but in reality I often feel people use the ‘underlying health conditions’ tag to suggest it’s only a tiny minority of unfortunates within society. 1 in 5 people in the U.K. has one, within the fab community as we are all over 18 it becomes 1 in 4, once over 60 half the population has one. These conditions are rarely life threatening, for most they are not even debilitating. We should really stop trying to suggest these people are anything but quite normal and healthy individuals. Thank for helping me understand why the phrase "underlying health conditions" didn't sit right with me. It's always felt so dismissive and reductionist. A bit like how the term "collateral damage" is used to obfuscate in softer language the men, women and child casualties of a bombing campaign. Now I know why I hate it. It's the same doublespeak. Thank you, Charli. so what terminology should they use instead of using underlying health conditions? Either they do have or do not have underlying conditions so I don’t understand why you are suggesting that they should just omit it all together. There’s nothing wrong with the terminology, as someone on one of the busiest covid wards in the North West we know it’s value to flag patients with asthma, copd, heart issues etc so that we can aggressively treat them as soon as they enter care. What people do need to do is to stop using that statistic as a skewed justification. It’s not published for the general public to assume that if they have no issue they are safe from covid which is how quite often on these forums it’s presented. It’s published to understand the likely outcomes, beyond the top line statistics it’s published to identify the most at risk individuals in all age groups. If you want the harsh truth, those not over 80 (who at that age almost certainly have some form of underlying condition) can usually be kept alive until covid has passed. That doesn’t however mean they jump up and walk away. Think of Kate Galloway husband, he’s not a one off, there’s three times plus the amount of survivors compared to the National death tally with horrifically bleak futures. They have survived ventilation but for how long and with what quality of life? Many of them entered hospitals as very fit and capable humans, they left ruined and the effects will be permanent. I’ve lost count of the number of individuals leaving our wards with 20-30% lung function and a life that requires daily oxygen, they come from all generations, all health backgrounds. " Its about now on a thread i normally make an indignant, sarcastic comment aimed at some dipshit conspiracy theorist type dude. Logical, and sound and feel a tad smarter after reading it, and i never read anything on here if its looks like more than one paragraph and praise from me always comes across insincere. I cant add anything to this discussion, and if i did id lose those iq points i just picked up. Charli, you had me at Grace and caught me in a rare moment of sincerity..... | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence." I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water…… | |||
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"Its about now on a thread i normally make an indignant, sarcastic comment aimed at some dipshit conspiracy theorist type dude. Logical, and sound and feel a tad smarter after reading it, and i never read anything on here if its looks like more than one paragraph and praise from me always comes across insincere. I cant add anything to this discussion, and if i did id lose those iq points i just picked up. Charli, you had me at Grace and caught me in a rare moment of sincerity....." I’ll take that, thank you x | |||
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"At the moment people seem to be attacking people a lot....a lot are doing it without even reading what is being posted, it is almost like you just want to attack instead, please stop or people will get banned Back to the OP" This virus Forum should be closed down,its just volatile all the time | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water……" 
If you truly wish to understand the nature of the covid-19 vaccination research then perhaps the best way is to understand fully their development process.
In terms of funding, all three have received external investment that is well over 100 times that of any previous programmes, all have been opened to test groups that again dwarf any previous testing, as an example the Oxford AZ programme effectively opened up a separate organisation to manage the data and research work. If you wish to look at man hours and time spent lab testing again all have surpassed the tallies of previous drug research projects many times.
These vaccines are similar to British wartime developments (the jet engine, computing, nuclear fision etc) they have had the kitchen sink thrown at them in order to aid us at a desperate time.
I read a poignant quote in the bmi a few months back concerning the vaccines, the trio in use in the U.K. are the three most heavily tested drugs in human history and that’s without their testing that is still ongoing being concluded.
It’s largely irrelevant though, we are reliant on their success, they are our one any only hope for a return to a relative normality. In a sense we have to take a gamble and roll them out at the earliest opportunity. What is in my view foolish to think is the risk lies with side effects or widespread adverse reactions. The stringent safety measures imposed on all three programmes means the real risk has always been a lack of effectiveness in stopping Covid-19.
Fortunately we are all enjoying the success of these jabs whether that be at the sharp end in my workplace or indeed in the simple pleasures of a social life. That can’t be disputed, we can have sadness for the limited numbers who have been the unfortunate few within the vaccination programme but the reality is that cost has to be accepted. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water……
If you truly wish to understand the nature of the covid-19 vaccination research then perhaps the best way is to understand fully their development process.
In terms of funding, all three have received external investment that is well over 100 times that of any previous programmes, all have been opened to test groups that again dwarf any previous testing, as an example the Oxford AZ programme effectively opened up a separate organisation to manage the data and research work. If you wish to look at man hours and time spent lab testing again all have surpassed the tallies of previous drug research projects many times.
These vaccines are similar to British wartime developments (the jet engine, computing, nuclear fision etc) they have had the kitchen sink thrown at them in order to aid us at a desperate time.
I read a poignant quote in the bmi a few months back concerning the vaccines, the trio in use in the U.K. are the three most heavily tested drugs in human history and that’s without their testing that is still ongoing being concluded.
It’s largely irrelevant though, we are reliant on their success, they are our one any only hope for a return to a relative normality. In a sense we have to take a gamble and roll them out at the earliest opportunity. What is in my view foolish to think is the risk lies with side effects or widespread adverse reactions. The stringent safety measures imposed on all three programmes means the real risk has always been a lack of effectiveness in stopping Covid-19.
Fortunately we are all enjoying the success of these jabs whether that be at the sharp end in my workplace or indeed in the simple pleasures of a social life. That can’t be disputed, we can have sadness for the limited numbers who have been the unfortunate few within the vaccination programme but the reality is that cost has to be accepted. " | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down? Positive cases are, deaths are going up There’s always 3 stages within spikes, first infections will rise, about 2 weeks later we will see hospitalisations start from those who covid takes a serious hold of, within a further 2 weeks those who deteriorate will start doing so and deaths will start, depending on patients this could last for weeks and months. The important thing with the current moment is infections are reducing and therefore our admissions in two weeks time will be less, let’s hope this continues " Click across to the testing section....virus tests conducted....6 million 200 thousand in 7 days....a reduction of 900,000 on the previous week.....tests down nearly 14%.....the ZOE covid tracker is not reporting such a large reduction as the govt | |||
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"Thought the figures were going down? Positive cases are, deaths are going up There’s always 3 stages within spikes, first infections will rise, about 2 weeks later we will see hospitalisations start from those who covid takes a serious hold of, within a further 2 weeks those who deteriorate will start doing so and deaths will start, depending on patients this could last for weeks and months. The important thing with the current moment is infections are reducing and therefore our admissions in two weeks time will be less, let’s hope this continues Click across to the testing section....virus tests conducted....6 million 200 thousand in 7 days....a reduction of 900,000 on the previous week.....tests down nearly 14%.....the ZOE covid tracker is not reporting such a large reduction as the govt" Also, there are school holidays. Home testing has probably stopped so PCR tests would be lower as well. The rise in infections was most noticeable in the 16-24 yr group with the 25-34 yr group in second place. The east midlands and south east were the areas of interest, with rising rates. Data as of 20 July from ONS. Please don't believe its over, until it is over. Never believe a govts figures !! | |||
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"Was thinking how many of these poor people have been double jabbed " About 40% | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water……
If you truly wish to understand the nature of the covid-19 vaccination research then perhaps the best way is to understand fully their development process.
In terms of funding, all three have received external investment that is well over 100 times that of any previous programmes, all have been opened to test groups that again dwarf any previous testing, as an example the Oxford AZ programme effectively opened up a separate organisation to manage the data and research work. If you wish to look at man hours and time spent lab testing again all have surpassed the tallies of previous drug research projects many times.
These vaccines are similar to British wartime developments (the jet engine, computing, nuclear fision etc) they have had the kitchen sink thrown at them in order to aid us at a desperate time.
I read a poignant quote in the bmi a few months back concerning the vaccines, the trio in use in the U.K. are the three most heavily tested drugs in human history and that’s without their testing that is still ongoing being concluded.
It’s largely irrelevant though, we are reliant on their success, they are our one any only hope for a return to a relative normality. In a sense we have to take a gamble and roll them out at the earliest opportunity. What is in my view foolish to think is the risk lies with side effects or widespread adverse reactions. The stringent safety measures imposed on all three programmes means the real risk has always been a lack of effectiveness in stopping Covid-19.
Fortunately we are all enjoying the success of these jabs whether that be at the sharp end in my workplace or indeed in the simple pleasures of a social life. That can’t be disputed, we can have sadness for the limited numbers who have been the unfortunate few within the vaccination programme but the reality is that cost has to be accepted. "This. Soooo much this. ^ | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water……" I've read about Malone and his claims about shedding protein spikes etc. All of which have been disproved. Indeed his claims about being one of the creators of mRNA technology have changed considerably since he was challenged on them. Thaty is not to dispute that his research wasn't important but that he overstated his role quite considerably to begin with. One of the easiest things in the world is to say that people are being silenced and are afraid to speak out, if they don't say anything it proves your point, if they say they are not being silenced then they are doing so at the behest of the people you say are silencing them in the first place. In a world where it's become easier and easier to find evidence that says what we want it to say what we perhaps should be doing is looking at where the weight of evidence sits. In the case of Malone's claims where does they weight of evidence sit? | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water…… I've read about Malone and his claims about shedding protein spikes etc. All of which have been disproved. Indeed his claims about being one of the creators of mRNA technology have changed considerably since he was challenged on them. Thaty is not to dispute that his research wasn't important but that he overstated his role quite considerably to begin with. One of the easiest things in the world is to say that people are being silenced and are afraid to speak out, if they don't say anything it proves your point, if they say they are not being silenced then they are doing so at the behest of the people you say are silencing them in the first place. In a world where it's become easier and easier to find evidence that says what we want it to say what we perhaps should be doing is looking at where the weight of evidence sits. In the case of Malone's claims where does they weight of evidence sit?" To the best of my knowledge there has been no debate on spike protein shedding i may be wrong if you have any I would happily have a read I don’t think he has backed away from that claim as he tweeted it only a few hours ago He also tweeted Increasing numbers of scientists “seem to fall prey to groupthink, and the process of peer-reviewing and publishing allows dogmatic gate-keeping to get in the way of new ideas and open-minded challenge. | |||
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"I’m far from crying ,you conveniently left out your use of the word dog?I do take that as an insult I actually provided links with a statement with a quote from Peter Carter, then chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing nothing else so I respect anyone’s right to have an opinion that differs from mine if you would like to actually have a debate about what Peter Carter has said then I’m more than happy to if you just want an arguement you may be in the wrong place Peter Carter isn’t a physician, he’s a doctor, yes but because he was given an honorary doctorate by his alma mater Edge Hill. He’s not worked clinically for well over 20 years, and when he did he was a nurse, not a doctor. Peter Carter may well be worried but he has no expertise to make him more qualified to talk about it than any other nurse who hasn’t practiced for a couple of decades. Experts know not to make pronouncements outside their fields of expertise, that’s why we shouldn’t listen to Carter, or the likes of Karol Sikora when it comes to Covid. I’m f I want to know what it’s like to run the RCN I’ll ask Peter Carter, if I want to know about the risks of vaccination, I’ll ask a vaccine researcher. The vaccine researchers that said the swine flu vaccine was safe and fully tested? Nothing is ever 100% safe, nothing. As humans we seek certainty because it’s easy and our poor little brains can’t cope with complexity. It’s the same reason that conspiracy theories abound, because people can’t cope with the fact the world is a place full of uncertainty and unfairness where bad things happen to good people. We’d rather believe there is a huge global cabal (usually the Jews as conspiracy theorists are pretty much always anti-Semites) controlling our lives as it is preferable to accepting the world is chaotic and we have fuck all control over any of it. All medicine is a trade off between the good a treatment does and the bad side effects. We get annoyed at experts because they don’t know everything, even though they are constantly telling us how little we truly know and pick up on the bad stuff (because we are hard wired to). All objective studies show that the vaccine is far more likely to do you good than harm, the doctors I speak to think the question of whether to take it or not is hilarious because it is so patently ridiculous yet still people cling to their YouTube videos. I take issue with anti-vaxxers because they are dangerous, not stupid although I support their right not to be vaccinated if that is their choice. I also think that choices come with consequences and that not being able to go to clubs etc. is frankly not enough of a consequence. I agree with you that there is always a trade off with the harms and benefits of medication i am only pointing out the reason for hesitation with this current vaccine, if you have time have a little look at Robert malone one of the researchers who created mRNA technology he talks a lot about the current silencing of scientists but I guess you can lead a horse to water…… I've read about Malone and his claims about shedding protein spikes etc. All of which have been disproved. Indeed his claims about being one of the creators of mRNA technology have changed considerably since he was challenged on them. Thaty is not to dispute that his research wasn't important but that he overstated his role quite considerably to begin with. One of the easiest things in the world is to say that people are being silenced and are afraid to speak out, if they don't say anything it proves your point, if they say they are not being silenced then they are doing so at the behest of the people you say are silencing them in the first place. In a world where it's become easier and easier to find evidence that says what we want it to say what we perhaps should be doing is looking at where the weight of evidence sits. In the case of Malone's claims where does they weight of evidence sit? To the best of my knowledge there has been no debate on spike protein shedding i may be wrong if you have any I would happily have a read I don’t think he has backed away from that claim as he tweeted it only a few hours ago He also tweeted Increasing numbers of scientists “seem to fall prey to groupthink, and the process of peer-reviewing and publishing allows dogmatic gate-keeping to get in the way of new ideas and open-minded challenge. " If you google 'covid vaccines cytotoxic reuters' you'll find a pretty good fact check on it, and a video of Malone and a couple of others discussing it. Scientists falling victim to groupthink is not new, it's something that happens to everyone, we are all susceptible to groupthink because it's human nature to want to belong. Saying that peer review is some sort of barrier to new ideas sounds like sour grapes to me though, all peer review does is to ensure that appropriate scientific methodology has been used, it doesn't stymie new ideas so long as the ideas have been tested properly. | |||
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"By what biological mechanism could a vaccinated person "shed proteins"? Do they sweat it out? Does it flow in their tears? Do they ejaculate them? Sneeze them? Shit them? Urinate them? I'm running out of ways humans can excrete substances into their surroundings...... " It turns out they don't but there are some people who are so desperate for the vaccines to be dangerous so it backs up their anti-vaxx views. | |||
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"By what biological mechanism could a vaccinated person "shed proteins"? Do they sweat it out? Does it flow in their tears? Do they ejaculate them? Sneeze them? Shit them? Urinate them? I'm running out of ways humans can excrete substances into their surroundings...... It turns out they don't but there are some people who are so desperate for the vaccines to be dangerous so it backs up their anti-vaxx views." I know there is no shedding, biology is my bread & butter, but I'm sick of people saying "vaccines cause XYZ" but cannot give any biological explanation/mechanism by which their claimed phenomenon happens. Basically, they make shit up and frighten people who do not possess the critical thinking skills to analyse its validity. | |||
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"Don't believe the hoax. Annual death figures are the same as usual. Attaching the word covid to every death just to keep this myth going " NO THEY ARE NOT We had about 75,000 excess deaths in England and Wales, in 2020, above the 5yr average. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/excessdeathsinenglandandwales2020final | |||
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