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"https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/02/eu-covid-19-digital-pass-seven-countries-begin-using-new-travel-system" We don't have any control over the rest of the world... they've only said they are not happening here. Cal | |||
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"https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/02/eu-covid-19-digital-pass-seven-countries-begin-using-new-travel-system" No-one has said they won't be used for travel between countries. Just they won't be used within the UK | |||
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"https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/02/eu-covid-19-digital-pass-seven-countries-begin-using-new-travel-system We don't have any control over the rest of the world... they've only said they are not happening here. Cal" It was pretty obvious they would be needed for travel just as proof of other vaccinations is already required for travel to certain countries. I think the need for a domestic one will still be on the table depending on how the situation unfolds in the UK. | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. " Absolutely no idea what you are on about, but a cool rant nonetheless. They won't happen domestically. For travel they will be digital or a verifyable printout. If you are referring to the little vaccination cards that everyone got (not Tardy at all), they will not be used. | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. " Yeah, the moment shit hits the fan - or maybe two weeks later - they'll be scrambling for something. The noisy minority won't make much of a difference. | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. " No need for "scabby little cardboard passports" the main nhs app already shows your vaccination status  | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services." i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. Yeah, the moment shit hits the fan - or maybe two weeks later - they'll be scrambling for something. The noisy minority won't make much of a difference." Why are you so insistent that the shit will again hit the fan? There's no evidence of that happening at this stage. I will happily have a wager with you (loser donates to charity) that there will not be a domestic Covid Passport. | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. Absolutely no idea what you are on about, but a cool rant nonetheless. They won't happen domestically. For travel they will be digital or a verifyable printout. If you are referring to the little vaccination cards that everyone got (not Tardy at all), they will not be used." Why issue them then? We could save a few thousand trees if they aren't going to be used. | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. Absolutely no idea what you are on about, but a cool rant nonetheless. They won't happen domestically. For travel they will be digital or a verifyable printout. If you are referring to the little vaccination cards that everyone got (not Tardy at all), they will not be used. Why issue them then? We could save a few thousand trees if they aren't going to be used. " Interim record. Didn't think about it. I got my own version of a card yesterday. I know damn well it's because there's no way to connect my jabs to the system yet  | |||
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"You can bet your backside that as soon as the lack of it prevents us from doing anything we will be begging for one... And we will be issuing those scabby little high security cardboard "passports". And bemoaning the fact we were so tardy in issuing them. No need for "scabby little cardboard passports" the main nhs app already shows your vaccination status "Yes this | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services." 100% | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel " Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection!" There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety." There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture? | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture?" Define "true picture". All measurements have flaws. I'd ask what we've done, historically, in the event of outbreak of serious disease, once it's brought under control. Or what measures might be used in other countries. As I've been clear about, I hope, my priority is the safety of those who remain vulnerable through no fault of their own. Apart from imprisoning them in their own home, for the crime of being vulnerable, how do we achieve that? | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture? Define "true picture". All measurements have flaws. I'd ask what we've done, historically, in the event of outbreak of serious disease, once it's brought under control. Or what measures might be used in other countries. As I've been clear about, I hope, my priority is the safety of those who remain vulnerable through no fault of their own. Apart from imprisoning them in their own home, for the crime of being vulnerable, how do we achieve that?" Once everyone is vaccinated, that is all that can be done. It's simply not acceptable to continue to lockdown or impose ANY unnatural restrictions on the majority after that point. Those that continue to be vulnerable can then make their own choices as to balancing their quality of life against risk. Existing isn't living for any of us. There has to be a point where we choose our own destiny and that point is once a suitable number are vaccinated or have had it for herd immunity (approx 70% - 80%). We are very, very close. The general public will no longer support controls very soon. | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture? Define "true picture". All measurements have flaws. I'd ask what we've done, historically, in the event of outbreak of serious disease, once it's brought under control. Or what measures might be used in other countries. As I've been clear about, I hope, my priority is the safety of those who remain vulnerable through no fault of their own. Apart from imprisoning them in their own home, for the crime of being vulnerable, how do we achieve that? Once everyone is vaccinated, that is all that can be done. It's simply not acceptable to continue to lockdown or impose ANY unnatural restrictions on the majority after that point. Those that continue to be vulnerable can then make their own choices as to balancing their quality of life against risk. Existing isn't living for any of us. There has to be a point where we choose our own destiny and that point is once a suitable number are vaccinated or have had it for herd immunity (approx 70% - 80%). We are very, very close. The general public will no longer support controls very soon." I agree. Imposing restrictions on the majority is unfair at that point. | |||
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"“True picture” oh I don’t know, I’m rambling a bit today. Just fed up with it all. Back during the early stages in 2020 (in UK) we had limited testing (initially no testing) so we will never know how many people actually had Covid. I suppose you could extrapolate based on hospitalisations and death rate but that would assume the c.2% is a constant? If you change counting methodology part way through then you make a comparison more difficult." True. Compromise between what's available, what's best, what's quick, all sorts of things. And no method is perfect. Surely we do the best we can. What that means depends on who you ask, though. | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture?" It's not hard though. Infections drive admissions drive death. High community infections drive more infections as the public mix more. Low community infections mean we can mix without spreading anything... If we knew how many of the infected / admitted / died... Had had none or one or two jabs we would have a much better idea of how successful the vaccine program really is. The fact its not being shared and shouted out loud is rather questionable in my opinion, given the success of our vaccine program is believed to be our only exit strategy. | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection! There's been a lot of noise. It's a genuinely difficult question - how to return to what feels like safety. There are those on these forums who would definitely support restricting access to everything (inc public transport) to those with a “vaccine passport” I’ve said before, God knows on which thread, that I honestly believe this will start to gradually drift away (“this” meaning both Covid and everything connected to it). Normal life will resume and people will start to forget about trying to impose restrictions. The Govt are already changing the methodology for stats on number of cases (I think - again noise and brain ache) by adding in a second factor to authenticate the first positive result? Now the cynic in me would say that this deliberately reduces the volume of cases so the Govt can say “look the vaccine is working, aren’t we great, we’ve saved you all”. Conversely, the higher volumes supported their agenda to drive vaccine adoption by scaring the crap out of everyone. With methodologies changing, not sure we will ever have a true picture? It's not hard though. Infections drive admissions drive death. High community infections drive more infections as the public mix more. Low community infections mean we can mix without spreading anything... If we knew how many of the infected / admitted / died... Had had none or one or two jabs we would have a much better idea of how successful the vaccine program really is. The fact its not being shared and shouted out loud is rather questionable in my opinion, given the success of our vaccine program is believed to be our only exit strategy. " Vaccine hospital admissions first papers are out there, issued a month ago, takes time to analyse. But here is one and shows, as others have found, most being admitted caught on or around the time of their vaccine or within 10 days before immunity built https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/973183/S1143_Hospitalised_vaccinated_patients_during_the_second_wave__2_.pdf | |||
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"For the vast majority of anti covid passport people it was the domestic application that was controversial not international travel. You have a choice to visit another country, you don’t have a choice about entering essential shops, public transport, public services. i dont think there was ever a discussion of essential shops or public services being included though people were worried they might get turned away from the pub , restaurants, concerts - aren’t those optional just like travel Fair point. TBH it all gets lost in the noise. Ironic thing is of course that public transport is probably a major vector of infection!" It annoys me that when I fly back from an amber country I have to test 3 times and quarantine for 10 days. Yet if I visit Bolton etc I can mix with strangers on a bus and go to work no questions asked.  | |||
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