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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world" You can cut and paste from anywhere. the bottom line remains: There will be covid variants for years to come, no doubt. Do you want to live in isolation forever? (if so, I guess we are all welcome to do as we choose). If you're not comfortable with current measures, no one is forcing you to go out and mix with people. Vaccinations will be available as they come about--there is not much anyone can do about variations that come up in the mean time (just like the flu vaccines). What is your point here, other than to scare people about a variant that could hae come from anywhere (and no doubt will next come from....anywhere else?). | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world" They are doing what they did last time.. Swerving any blame by giving the responsibility back to the people with a bit of good advice that most won't follow.. Then we get another lockdown.. But this time it's our fault not the government's.. 21st of June and the big 'unlocking' is looking very unlikely to happen as every day passes unfortunately | |||
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"I'll soon get shot down hear, but if those whom are at high risk are now vaccinated and remain cautious, whats the problem? Lets get back to bloody normal already! " I would assume that not overwhelming the NHS is still relevant. The Governments approach in some respects does seem to have changed, verging on caution now rather than being cavalier and reacting once the horse has bolted. | |||
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"I'll soon get shot down hear, but if those whom are at high risk are now vaccinated and remain cautious, whats the problem? Lets get back to bloody normal already! " That’s so true if the vulnerable are vaccinated what difference does it make if those Covid hardly affects get it ? Let’s get our live back and those who don’t want that stay home | |||
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"I'll soon get shot down hear, but if those whom are at high risk are now vaccinated and remain cautious, whats the problem? Lets get back to bloody normal already! That’s so true if the vulnerable are vaccinated what difference does it make if those Covid hardly affects get it ? Let’s get our live back and those who don’t want that stay home "  | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world" The telegraph has posted an article today. It says media reporting and government messaging was purposely rooted in fear, in order to control the populations behaviour. It's definitely worth a read. They have openly admitted to manipulating all if us. | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world" @Backformore you know what is going on. You are clearly a smart guy. You and I have chatted a fair bit over the past year on these forums a d while we don’t always see eye-to-eye you clearly are a calm voice of reason and considered thought. 1. Populism - we have a populist Govt (same as USA last year and Brazil). Poor responses to Covid in all three for the most part. Johnson wants to be popular, wanted Tories to storm local elections using the “vaccine bounce” to drive success at ballot box. He didn’t want to be the man who cancelled xmas and will fight tooth and nail not to deviate from the roadmap (unless he can point and say “it is your fault jo public”). 2. Money - people like Hancock are getting rich(er) off the back of Covid (either directly or indirectly). They want the vaccine roll out to continue* and are salivating at the prospect of annual boosters. 3. Nudge/behavioural science/social norming - we have a variant from India that is apparently** more easily spread AND now appears to effect younger age groups more (20-40). The Indian variant is taking hold in Indian/Asian communities (not only them but starting point) in areas of the UK. Vaccine take up is lowest in Indian/Asian communities and concerns this will be even more of a factor in those younger age groups. Lo and behold Hancock declares the vaccines ARE effective against Indian variant (I don’t think we know that yet though right) AND that it will spread even quicker and be more dangerous to the unvaccinated (er no shit but that isn’t the driver here) - ergo increase fear in this community and try to drive take up PLUS we have the potential for finger pointing and blame if (often very large extended) Indian families start gathering over the coming weeks. People can say “see this is your fault” *I am not saying the vaccine doesn’t work (clearly does). Not the purpose of this post! **I say apparently as I have not read the data so don’t know. Not disputing whether it is! | |||
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"And there we go again . People publishing phrases out of context to scaremonger even more people. The mental health of some currently is so fragile that soon the suicide rate is going to be higher than the covid death rate. Why don t we all just take responsibility for our own safety and act like adults.? Oh sorry this is FAB not the real world. I think when this public enquiry finally starts the role of the media and social media should also be investigated. " There has been no surge in suicide rates, certainly not in the numbers of excess death that we've seen due to covid.. Irony is your last sentence and what you've posted about suicide, based upon what if I may? | |||
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" The telegraph has posted an article today. It says media reporting and government messaging was purposely rooted in fear, in order to control the populations behaviour. " Of course it is, fear is strong motivator it is built into our genetics. Governments, dictators, warlords, religion, Psychopaths, Terrorism have been using it as a means to manipulate opinions in a certain way. Same as many posters in these forums try to. Governments have to control else its anarchy the expression "to govern" is to manage and control "Governor on an engine" How we move forward is entirely down all the people and the government is absolutely right to put the responsibility in the hands of the people. If we go into another lockdown it will be entirely the responsibility of the people. Government have put various tools at our disposal, and given advice and guideline, but ultimately it will be the people or groups of people who will ultimate determine that. Those that say its not the responsibility of the people are simply shirking off responsibility for there own actions not others. The NHS have done an amazing job over this entire situation. Even if you don't like the governments isn't it the responsibility on all individuals to have respect for them and not put them under anymore pressure by our own selfish actions. | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world They are doing what they did last time.. Swerving any blame by giving the responsibility back to the people with a bit of good advice that most won't follow.. Then we get another lockdown.. But this time it's our fault not the government's.. 21st of June and the big 'unlocking' is looking very unlikely to happen as every day passes unfortunately " I love this for it's baffling view on responsibility. The government says "don't go out". People go out. Somehow this is the government's fault. Of course we are all responsible for our own actions. Blaming the government because bloody idiots don't follow the government's advice is fecund stupidity. E | |||
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" The telegraph has posted an article today. It says media reporting and government messaging was purposely rooted in fear, in order to control the populations behaviour. Of course it is, fear is strong motivator it is built into our genetics. Governments, dictators, warlords, religion, Psychopaths, Terrorism have been using it as a means to manipulate opinions in a certain way. Same as many posters in these forums try to. Governments have to control else its anarchy the expression "to govern" is to manage and control "Governor on an engine" How we move forward is entirely down all the people and the government is absolutely right to put the responsibility in the hands of the people. If we go into another lockdown it will be entirely the responsibility of the people. Government have put various tools at our disposal, and given advice and guideline, but ultimately it will be the people or groups of people who will ultimate determine that. Those that say its not the responsibility of the people are simply shirking off responsibility for there own actions not others. The NHS have done an amazing job over this entire situation. Even if you don't like the governments isn't it the responsibility on all individuals to have respect for them and not put them under anymore pressure by our own selfish actions. " This. ^ E | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world They are doing what they did last time.. Swerving any blame by giving the responsibility back to the people with a bit of good advice that most won't follow.. Then we get another lockdown.. But this time it's our fault not the government's.. 21st of June and the big 'unlocking' is looking very unlikely to happen as every day passes unfortunately I love this for it's baffling view on responsibility. The government says "don't go out". People go out. Somehow this is the government's fault. Of course we are all responsible for our own actions. Blaming the government because bloody idiots don't follow the government's advice is fecund stupidity. E" Not sure why you think that? Unless of course you support the Tory government? In which case you would say that now wouldn't you! | |||
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"Those who seek to downplay infection numbers, pushing just to focus on hospital admissions, need to understand a couple of things. Any one person infected could be the cause of the death of a loved one and the source of a new mutation that is deadly or unmanageable. Hidden mutations today could be the cause of variants that overwhelm our hospitals in the future. We thus need to keep infection numbers as low as possible, not to mention that people not needing hospital treatment may also suffer long covid, which won't feature in the daily stats. " I'm going off sages own criteria here, and yes that does include VOC s becoming out of control. This virus is endemic now and the stats from Bolton is only 1 person out of 1400 infected with the India variant (and has been fully vaccinated) is in hospital. Careful yes. Lock down hokey y no. | |||
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"What I will say is that Hancock coming out last night and saying don't travel to amber countries sounds at odds with what Boris said previously.." I personally hope they say no foreign travel until 2022. It's not a neccesisty to go on a foriegn holiday. | |||
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"But personal responsibility is the answer to everything. It's worked so well." 100% agree. The British Public being asked to be sensible and take responsibility.. Unfortunately, a large chunk of British population are dicks!!! | |||
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" Not sure why you think that? Unless of course you support the Tory government? In which case you would say that now wouldn't you! " Saw in another post how terms of abuse have become prevalent in these forums. "If you disagree with my viewpoint so you must be a Tory Lover, Support Tory Government" 
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"What I will say is that Hancock coming out last night and saying don't travel to amber countries sounds at odds with what Boris said previously.. I personally hope they say no foreign travel until 2022. It's not a neccesisty to go on a foriegn holiday. " Is a necessity for some if they have mother or father they havent seen for 16 months.. | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world You can cut and paste from anywhere. the bottom line remains: There will be covid variants for years to come, no doubt. Do you want to live in isolation forever? (if so, I guess we are all welcome to do as we choose). If you're not comfortable with current measures, no one is forcing you to go out and mix with people. Vaccinations will be available as they come about--there is not much anyone can do about variations that come up in the mean time (just like the flu vaccines). What is your point here, other than to scare people about a variant that could hae come from anywhere (and no doubt will next come from....anywhere else?)." The point is that 1, we could end up going back into lockdown, but also increase the pressure on the NHS and number of deaths, being in lockdown and suffering with mental health problems doesn't help. | |||
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"Seriously... The nhs have been amazing!? I dont get the worship of this brand. I personally have experienced the other side of the nhs. People being misdiagnosed mistreated and poorly cared for left to lay in their own waste for hours. Impossible access to outpatients or any diagnosis at all. Impossible access to gp services. No the nhs has its flaws and limitations just like everything and everyone. They have some superstars too and have done some great work. But no the brand has many faults and ignoring them does nobody any favours. " This I totally agree with. Not everything is rosey. That isn't taking away the horrendous job that the NHS had dealing with Covid patients and I really wouldn't have wanted to do it | |||
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"I don’t support this “not the government’s fault” position some are taking. It absolutely IS the government’s fault, their handling of Covid (except for areas that can be monetised) has been pathetic with a catalogue of errors. I ALSO think it IS the fault of many of the great British public! Many (clearly not all) have acted irresponsibly and exacerbated / prolonged the problem. Both are to blame! Saying that, why we think all Brits will take time to read and understand guidance related to Covid when many on Fab cannot even be bothered to read people’s profiles says it all really "Yes. It is possible for both to be true. | |||
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"Just cut and paste a few bullets from the BBC here.... So it would appear that... We have a real problem, because Indian variant will spread like wildfire. We have a plan to socialise more and indoors starting tomorrow. People are being told... To be very cautious mixing with others...and yet we are still going ahead....!? It Beggars belief.. Either remove restrictions because it is safe to do so... Or don't remove restrictions because it is not safe to do so. But don't remove restrictions with the caveat that we better be careful because if we get it wrong we will have a real problem in our hands. *People are being urged by scientists to be very cautious about mixing as lockdown eases on Monday *Coronavirus restrictions across England, Scotland and Wales are being relaxed *Indoor hospitality and entertainment venues will reopen and more people can meet outdoors, with limited indoor mixing also allowed *It comes as the coronavirus variant first discovered in India is spreading quickly in parts of the UK *Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the "strategy remains on track" because of "very high uptake rates of the vaccine" *But he says the Indian variant is more transmissible and can "spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated" *If the variant is 40-50% more transmissible than the Kent variant, the UK will have a "real problem", he adds *No 10 has defended its decision not to ban travel from India sooner, saying the UK has "some of the toughest border measures" in the world They are doing what they did last time.. Swerving any blame by giving the responsibility back to the people with a bit of good advice that most won't follow.. Then we get another lockdown.. But this time it's our fault not the government's.. 21st of June and the big 'unlocking' is looking very unlikely to happen as every day passes unfortunately I love this for it's baffling view on responsibility. The government says "don't go out". People go out. Somehow this is the government's fault. Of course we are all responsible for our own actions. Blaming the government because bloody idiots don't follow the government's advice is fecund stupidity. E Not sure why you think that? Unless of course you support the Tory government? In which case you would say that now wouldn't you! " You're not sure why I think that? I'd have thought it was patently obvious. The party I support has absolutely nothing to do with it. I support common sense. Let me ask you a question. I tell you not to pick up a plate because it's hot and you'll burn your fingers. You pick it up and burn your fingers. Who's responsible for your burnt fingers? E | |||
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" Not sure why you think that? Unless of course you support the Tory government? In which case you would say that now wouldn't you! Saw in another post how terms of abuse have become prevalent in these forums. "If you disagree with my viewpoint so you must be a Tory Lover, Support Tory Government"
"Stupid isn't it. E | |||
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"I don’t support this “not the government’s fault” position some are taking. It absolutely IS the government’s fault, their handling of Covid (except for areas that can be monetised) has been pathetic with a catalogue of errors. I ALSO think it IS the fault of many of the great British public! Many (clearly not all) have acted irresponsibly and exacerbated / prolonged the problem. Both are to blame! Saying that, why we think all Brits will take time to read and understand guidance related to Covid when many on Fab cannot even be bothered to read people’s profiles says it all really "Government couldnhave done things quicker.. but how many Global pandemics have their been? Impossible to see how it was going to grow.. | |||
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"I don’t support this “not the government’s fault” position some are taking. It absolutely IS the government’s fault, their handling of Covid (except for areas that can be monetised) has been pathetic with a catalogue of errors. I ALSO think it IS the fault of many of the great British public! Many (clearly not all) have acted irresponsibly and exacerbated / prolonged the problem. Both are to blame! Saying that, why we think all Brits will take time to read and understand guidance related to Covid when many on Fab cannot even be bothered to read people’s profiles says it all really "Agree and don't think anyone would disagree entirely but this is totally new, mistakes have been made across the world not just here. Yes mistakes have been made and still being made but I don't believe anyone could have done better - well maybe one or two in these forums it seems. People will be agreeing/disagreeing, writing papers, books, academics/people will be arguing over it for decades to come Indian Prime minister thinks votes are more important than lives while they are fishing buddies out of the Ganges with trawler nets. European Vaccine fiasco and many still being in lockdown, Putin trying to sell the Sputnik vaccine to world rather than give it to their own people. Simple truth it's shite, to get though it we all need to do our bit and saying not my fault it's theirs. Gov | |||
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"What I will say is that Hancock coming out last night and saying don't travel to amber countries sounds at odds with what Boris said previously.. I personally hope they say no foreign travel until 2022. It's not a neccesisty to go on a foriegn holiday. Is a necessity for some if they have mother or father they havent seen for 16 months.. " Is that a holiday though. | |||
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"I don’t support this “not the government’s fault” position some are taking. It absolutely IS the government’s fault, their handling of Covid (except for areas that can be monetised) has been pathetic with a catalogue of errors. I ALSO think it IS the fault of many of the great British public! Many (clearly not all) have acted irresponsibly and exacerbated / prolonged the problem. Both are to blame! Saying that, why we think all Brits will take time to read and understand guidance related to Covid when many on Fab cannot even be bothered to read people’s profiles says it all really
Government couldnhave done things quicker.. but how many Global pandemics have their been? Impossible to see how it was going to grow.."They had an exercise in 2016 about pandemics. They had obviously looked into it. They failed miserably at the time by the sounds of it. | |||
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"I don’t support this “not the government’s fault” position some are taking. It absolutely IS the government’s fault, their handling of Covid (except for areas that can be monetised) has been pathetic with a catalogue of errors. I ALSO think it IS the fault of many of the great British public! Many (clearly not all) have acted irresponsibly and exacerbated / prolonged the problem. Both are to blame! Saying that, why we think all Brits will take time to read and understand guidance related to Covid when many on Fab cannot even be bothered to read people’s profiles says it all really
Government couldnhave done things quicker.. but how many Global pandemics have their been? Impossible to see how it was going to grow.."Sorry that doesn’t wash. This all started with the Tory Govt in 2016 ignoring all the recommendations from pandemic dry run exercise “Cygnus” leaving the UK highly exposed. In addition, the Govt has cherry picked which “science they are following”. Plus it is common sense to immediately either close borders (we are an island) or bring in a strict quarantine regime. Don’t make excuses. For the most part it has been a cock up. | |||
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" Not sure why you think that? Unless of course you support the Tory government? In which case you would say that now wouldn't you! Saw in another post how terms of abuse have become prevalent in these forums. "If you disagree with my viewpoint so you must be a Tory Lover, Support Tory Government"
"That's not abuse my friend. More a rhetorical question and process of elimination ( hence no question mark) I don't agree with you.. That's what debate is all about and its pointless trying to tell the teacher on me. To clarify you seem to think that a government is not responsible for how the population behaves? So let's say they have now presented a tasty option to the general public that they just can't resist? Hugging holidays and ' caution needed' headlines are everywhere.. Yet I guarantee you more than 50% of the population will slowly push the rules to the point that they won't exist in most peoples minds within 2 weeks.. Particularly if the weather improves . Just let me OK at the Fab statuses clearly saying all this is over and can we meet now / we are meeting.. Despite government advice saying we should not go too far.. I think an organised gang bang outdoors might just be heading in that direction maybe? So the people go out and gorge on their own types of excess .Though that's okay because its just ' caution' advice we got from the government right? Even though most scientists say we should meet outdoors and keep social distancing still and be very cautious about who we see and hugging should be reserved for close family only .. However.. Just a caution right? Unfortunately people become ill, cases rise and we end up going back to lockdown measures because people took no notice of the various advice and cautions. The people then complain because despite what happened people will always hold governments accountable for the general good health and well being of the populous won't they? and rightly so in my opinion .. Ideally people should be taking responsibility for their own actions and behaving accordingly . Which some will of course but many will absolutely not .. The majority won't take any notice to the governments 'caution' approach because they don't want to .. A ' caution ' is no biggie is it? .. When the people complain the government will blame them and not take responsibility for everyone's safety because they ' advised caution' no one took any notice This is what happens when you have a government who think most of the population are too stupid to realise what is happening to them and are therfore easy to manipulate and control... Because that's what they do those governments isn't it? | |||
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"Ah but what if the Govt had had plenty of opportunities to make a plate that doesn’t get hot or provide everyone with a glove but didn’t? Think the metaphor is being stretched a bit now "I think you missed the point. By quite a bit.
E | |||
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"Ah but what if the Govt had had plenty of opportunities to make a plate that doesn’t get hot or provide everyone with a glove but didn’t? Think the metaphor is being stretched a bit now
I think you missed the point.
By quite a bit.
E"I really didn’t 
But got carried away by your hot plate metaphor (for fun - not a lot else going around).
Of course if a plate is hot then telling someone not to touch it and they do burning their fingers is their fault as you told them not to. First hand experience as a parent there “I told you not to touch it”
My point was that (as a parent) as well as telling my kid not to touch the plate I also have other risk mitigations such as “stay out of the bloody kitchen while I am cooking” etc | |||
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"And there we go again . People publishing phrases out of context to scaremonger even more people. The mental health of some currently is so fragile that soon the suicide rate is going to be higher than the covid death rate. Why don t we all just take responsibility for our own safety and act like adults.? Oh sorry this is FAB not the real world. I think when this public enquiry finally starts the role of the media and social media should also be investigated. There has been no surge in suicide rates, certainly not in the numbers of excess death that we've seen due to covid.. Irony is your last sentence and what you've posted about suicide, based upon what if I may?" Based upon information during discussions with friends who work within the health service and within the metal health help services. More and more people are having panic attacks are nervous about being in public spaces and concerned for their jobs and future. And more and more are reporting thoughts of self harm worse. That is where my information comes from | |||
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"The government, the scientists, the comms and media specialists and the general public, the airlines, the border force Et al all have a part to play here. The dreadful communications, the mixed messages, repeating the same avoidable and preventable mistakes time and time and time again...the lack of learning... This is no longer a new and novel virus, we now know how to manage its spread and how to effectively treat a lot of the cases... Outbreaks will happen less often if we Control our borders, we enforce isolation and test and trace. You can't on the one hand televise an event with 25k people all climbing over eachother for 2 hours (the fa Cup final) into 20 million homes on the Saturday and on the Monday expect people to exercise extreme caution in a busy pub. You can't on the one hand say the unvaccinated are at high risk of being infected and spreading it and at the same time encourage the unvaccinated to congregate indoors in higher numbers. It makes no sense at all. Unless.... I'm not saying we lockdown or not lockdown.. I'm just saying, we are no longer in a national crisis, we should have people who can join up a few dots and coordinate some dates and strategies so that infections are kept as low as possible. " very well said | |||
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"Ah but what if the Govt had had plenty of opportunities to make a plate that doesn’t get hot or provide everyone with a glove but didn’t? Think the metaphor is being stretched a bit now
I think you missed the point.
By quite a bit.
E
I really didn’t
But got carried away by your hot plate metaphor (for fun - not a lot else going around).
Of course if a plate is hot then telling someone not to touch it and they do burning their fingers is their fault as you told them not to. First hand experience as a parent there “I told you not to touch it”
My point was that (as a parent) as well as telling my kid not to touch the plate I also have other risk mitigations such as “stay out of the bloody kitchen while I am cooking” etc"The advice is/was stay home. The risk mitigation is/was, if you don't stay home you may catch covid, you may give Covid to others, your actions may well keep us in Lock down for ever. People did not stay home. People ignored the risk mitigations. And those people seem immune to criticism, while those that offered the guidance are held up as being responsible. People are deflecting from ownership of responsibility by stating the government have handled this poorly. That may well be true. But that does not abdicate people from their personal responsibility and inability to follow the guidance. One does not cancel the other out. E | |||
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"Ah but what if the Govt had had plenty of opportunities to make a plate that doesn’t get hot or provide everyone with a glove but didn’t? Think the metaphor is being stretched a bit now
I think you missed the point.
By quite a bit.
E
I really didn’t
But got carried away by your hot plate metaphor (for fun - not a lot else going around).
Of course if a plate is hot then telling someone not to touch it and they do burning their fingers is their fault as you told them not to. First hand experience as a parent there “I told you not to touch it”
My point was that (as a parent) as well as telling my kid not to touch the plate I also have other risk mitigations such as “stay out of the bloody kitchen while I am cooking” etc
The advice is/was stay home.
The risk mitigation is/was, if you don't stay home you may catch covid, you may give Covid to others, your actions may well keep us in Lock down for ever.
People did not stay home.
People ignored the risk mitigations.
And those people seem immune to criticism, while those that offered the guidance are held up as being responsible.
People are deflecting from ownership of responsibility by stating the government have handled this poorly. That may well be true.
But that does not abdicate people from their personal responsibility and inability to follow the guidance.
One does not cancel the other out.
E
"Agreed and I refer you to my post further up this thread. Both the govt and (many not all) the people are to blame. Re the govt poor handling “may well be truly” - I think we can definitively say “it is true”. They got some things right but an awful lot wrong. I simply will not ever forgive them for (amongst other things): - Not closing the borders or at least enforcing quarantine - Not being decisive and flip flapping around - The biggest theft of state assets EVER - Jobs for cronies - Lack of PPE for front line health and care workers - Ignoring Cygnus - Confused and misleading communication - Supporting Cummings Bernard Castle trip Etc | |||
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"Seriously... The nhs have been amazing!? I dont get the worship of this brand. I personally have experienced the other side of the nhs. People being misdiagnosed mistreated and poorly cared for left to lay in their own waste for hours. Impossible access to outpatients or any diagnosis at all. Impossible access to gp services. No the nhs has its flaws and limitations just like everything and everyone. They have some superstars too and have done some great work. But no the brand has many faults and ignoring them does nobody any favours. " I couldnt agree more . I myself have given up trying to use even the most basic of nhs services and have now gone private which is AMAZING by the way 
I cant help but feel that the privatisation of the NHS is still on the cards as everything about it is outdated. | |||
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"Seriously... The nhs have been amazing!? I dont get the worship of this brand. I personally have experienced the other side of the nhs. People being misdiagnosed mistreated and poorly cared for left to lay in their own waste for hours. Impossible access to outpatients or any diagnosis at all. Impossible access to gp services. No the nhs has its flaws and limitations just like everything and everyone. They have some superstars too and have done some great work. But no the brand has many faults and ignoring them does nobody any favours. I couldnt agree more . I myself have given up trying to use even the most basic of nhs services and have now gone private which is AMAZING by the way
I cant help but feel that the privatisation of the NHS is still on the cards as everything about it is outdated. "Hopefully you understand the concept of deliberate mismanagement and under funding to create an environment that is compliant or even supportive of privatisation right? Let’s hope you have no pre-existing conditions or hereditary illnesses in the family when you try to get medical insurance. | |||
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"Seriously... The nhs have been amazing!? I dont get the worship of this brand. I personally have experienced the other side of the nhs. People being misdiagnosed mistreated and poorly cared for left to lay in their own waste for hours. Impossible access to outpatients or any diagnosis at all. Impossible access to gp services. No the nhs has its flaws and limitations just like everything and everyone. They have some superstars too and have done some great work. But no the brand has many faults and ignoring them does nobody any favours. I couldnt agree more . I myself have given up trying to use even the most basic of nhs services and have now gone private which is AMAZING by the way
I cant help but feel that the privatisation of the NHS is still on the cards as everything about it is outdated.
Hopefully you understand the concept of deliberate mismanagement and under funding to create an environment that is compliant or even supportive of privatisation right?
Let’s hope you have no pre-existing conditions or hereditary illnesses in the family when you try to get medical insurance."Well there's two edges on that sword. First you have to be able to offer a service that merits charging for. I'm pretty angry with the nhs right now, so best I don't say too much. But what I will say is there are very few services that are available to me or mine right now. And even if they were... Access ability of them is needlessly complicated with delays built in at every step of the way. But if I want a covid test I can 10 of them in a week with immediate access. It's almost as if the nhs is male and can't do more than one thing well at a time. | |||
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