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How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Very interesting indeed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

"

That's funny I thought we'd put apartheid behind us but now we seem to be getting it in digital form. All those who just choose not to be injected will be rejected from normal everyday living, just think about that.

Sharing my personal health records with club bouncers, restaurants etc doesn't sit well with me.

This is the Chinese social credit score society that the government wants to introduce here, Hell on earth.

When your health info is sold will you still be able to get suitable insurance? Employment? Financial Credit? People just have no idea where this is leading to.

The social implications from this is a pressurised powder keg waiting to happen, you can forget the police the army would be needed on the streets permanently.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think they should have developed the idea earlier and things seem to be going well in places like Israel (except that they haven't really helped the Palestinians ).

People showing lower risk levels for others could be able to facilitate their engagement more fully in society, including via use of testing.

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford


"How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

That's funny I thought we'd put apartheid behind us but now we seem to be getting it in digital form. All those who just choose not to be injected will be rejected from normal everyday living, just think about that.

Sharing my personal health records with club bouncers, restaurants etc doesn't sit well with me.

This is the Chinese social credit score society that the government wants to introduce here, Hell on earth.

When your health info is sold will you still be able to get suitable insurance? Employment? Financial Credit? People just have no idea where this is leading to.

The social implications from this is a pressurised powder keg waiting to happen, you can forget the police the army would be needed on the streets permanently. "

Arguably this is what people have already agreed to..

We share data, info, pictures and personal details daily.. We just didn't think we would end up having to pay a price for that to the people whose platforms we use..

Everything needs payback at some point..

Now this pandemic has opened the doors to this to happen.. People need to be somehow accountable for themselves or we have anarchy.

The Internet is what we all assume is free space, write what we like, say what we like, do what we like.. It is like a huge database that already holds more information than most of us are comfortable with.. Your health, gym details for example could easily be obtained now by someone.. In the future it may become part of how your life insurance is calculated.. And of course there's lots of other examples of how all that stuff works..

People seem to think the Internet is a fun place with no rules.. Yet it is full if them and very dangerous.. I'm constantly amused by those who say they won't share their data yet happily sign up to some online meme site, tic tok or even just get their face photographed 50 times a day.. They then call people ' sheep' laughable really! If it wasn't so serious..

I was there when the Internet was born right at the start of all this, worked with computers etc etc and vividly remember thinking this can not be a free space it nerds control

Control never came and it evolved in a very bolt on haphazard way.. And everyone just carried on using it developing it and thinking it was fun

Until you wonder who might actually control it and also then you / your life data etc

Now people are Waking up to that as the pandemic is showing up a lot of where the gaps are

Its inevitable that everything about us will be in someone else's hands in the very near future.. Now it's time for the woke generation to switch onto that and do something about it

Or just let it happen..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

That's funny I thought we'd put apartheid behind us but now we seem to be getting it in digital form. All those who just choose not to be injected will be rejected from normal everyday living, just think about that.

Sharing my personal health records with club bouncers, restaurants etc doesn't sit well with me.

This is the Chinese social credit score society that the government wants to introduce here, Hell on earth.

When your health info is sold will you still be able to get suitable insurance? Employment? Financial Credit? People just have no idea where this is leading to.

The social implications from this is a pressurised powder keg waiting to happen, you can forget the police the army would be needed on the streets permanently.

Arguably this is what people have already agreed to..

We share data, info, pictures and personal details daily.. We just didn't think we would end up having to pay a price for that to the people whose platforms we use..

Everything needs payback at some point..

Now this pandemic has opened the doors to this to happen.. People need to be somehow accountable for themselves or we have anarchy.

The Internet is what we all assume is free space, write what we like, say what we like, do what we like.. It is like a huge database that already holds more information than most of us are comfortable with.. Your health, gym details for example could easily be obtained now by someone.. In the future it may become part of how your life insurance is calculated.. And of course there's lots of other examples of how all that stuff works..

People seem to think the Internet is a fun place with no rules.. Yet it is full if them and very dangerous.. I'm constantly amused by those who say they won't share their data yet happily sign up to some online meme site, tic tok or even just get their face photographed 50 times a day.. They then call people ' sheep' laughable really! If it wasn't so serious..

I was there when the Internet was born right at the start of all this, worked with computers etc etc and vividly remember thinking this can not be a free space it nerds control

Control never came and it evolved in a very bolt on haphazard way.. And everyone just carried on using it developing it and thinking it was fun

Until you wonder who might actually control it and also then you / your life data etc

Now people are Waking up to that as the pandemic is showing up a lot of where the gaps are

Its inevitable that everything about us will be in someone else's hands in the very near future.. Now it's time for the woke generation to switch onto that and do something about it

Or just let it happen..

"

I have no idea why this is a "woke" thing. I know damn well my data is being mined, etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Opposing vaccine passports on discrimination grounds is moot. Other countries will do the discriminating for us if we don't. You can't travel without a passport. You can't travel (by air) without a security check. You can't travel without a ticket. It's one more check.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Opposing vaccine passports on discrimination grounds is moot. Other countries will do the discriminating for us if we don't. You can't travel without a passport. You can't travel (by air) without a security check. You can't travel without a ticket. It's one more check. "

Discrimination may also be justified in some cases, domestically. It'll have to go through the courts.

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford


"How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

That's funny I thought we'd put apartheid behind us but now we seem to be getting it in digital form. All those who just choose not to be injected will be rejected from normal everyday living, just think about that.

Sharing my personal health records with club bouncers, restaurants etc doesn't sit well with me.

This is the Chinese social credit score society that the government wants to introduce here, Hell on earth.

When your health info is sold will you still be able to get suitable insurance? Employment? Financial Credit? People just have no idea where this is leading to.

The social implications from this is a pressurised powder keg waiting to happen, you can forget the police the army would be needed on the streets permanently.

Arguably this is what people have already agreed to..

We share data, info, pictures and personal details daily.. We just didn't think we would end up having to pay a price for that to the people whose platforms we use..

Everything needs payback at some point..

Now this pandemic has opened the doors to this to happen.. People need to be somehow accountable for themselves or we have anarchy.

The Internet is what we all assume is free space, write what we like, say what we like, do what we like.. It is like a huge database that already holds more information than most of us are comfortable with.. Your health, gym details for example could easily be obtained now by someone.. In the future it may become part of how your life insurance is calculated.. And of course there's lots of other examples of how all that stuff works..

People seem to think the Internet is a fun place with no rules.. Yet it is full if them and very dangerous.. I'm constantly amused by those who say they won't share their data yet happily sign up to some online meme site, tic tok or even just get their face photographed 50 times a day.. They then call people ' sheep' laughable really! If it wasn't so serious..

I was there when the Internet was born right at the start of all this, worked with computers etc etc and vividly remember thinking this can not be a free space it nerds control

Control never came and it evolved in a very bolt on haphazard way.. And everyone just carried on using it developing it and thinking it was fun

Until you wonder who might actually control it and also then you / your life data etc

Now people are Waking up to that as the pandemic is showing up a lot of where the gaps are

Its inevitable that everything about us will be in someone else's hands in the very near future.. Now it's time for the woke generation to switch onto that and do something about it

Or just let it happen..

I have no idea why this is a "woke" thing. I know damn well my data is being mined, etc. "

In a nutshell my generation created a system where people had little accountability. Which it is looking like is about to come and bite everyone quote hard.. Future generations now have to pull the reins on it before it gets out of control.. ' synydyne systems' was never really that far fetched as far as our futures are concerned

. Gone way off topic on this so let everyone get back to the topic in hand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway. "

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

At least the UK is looking to implement it after everyone over 18 has had the chance of a vaccine.

The countries (see OP) already doing it haven't vaccinated anywhere close to their population before pressing ahead.

Choices have consequences ultimately. For those of us who travel internationally getting your jobs to do so is nothing new.

It makes sense that public transport and supermarkets won't require it. It seems anything that's a need will be protected where anything you might want to do / access will be fair game.

KJ

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"

That's funny I thought we'd put apartheid behind us but now we seem to be getting it in digital form. All those who just choose not to be injected will be rejected from normal everyday living, just think about that.

Sharing my personal health records with club bouncers, restaurants etc doesn't sit well with me.

This is the Chinese social credit score society that the government wants to introduce here, Hell on earth.

When your health info is sold will you still be able to get suitable insurance? Employment? Financial Credit? People just have no idea where this is leading to.

The social implications from this is a pressurised powder keg waiting to happen, you can forget the police the army would be needed on the streets permanently. "

Firstly, to liken this to Apartheid is a real slap in the face to anyone who actually had to endure the system.

Secondly, there is a huge difference between "normal everyday living" and going to watch the Sugarbabes or the FA Cup Final at Wembley.

Thirdly, you're not going to be sharing your health records with anyone. There will be some type of "Proof of Eligibility" to access some places or events. It will not state that you have been vaccinated, previously infected, medically exempt etc... it will just be a "This person can come in card"

Fourthly, the sharing of private data with third-parties without express permission is against the Data Protection Laws. You will not be judged on your choice to refuse vaccination, unless you tell people.

Cal

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

------

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong "

The current set if vaccines have all demonstrated that they provide good protection against "all" of the strains that have currently be found.

If enough people around the world are vaccinated, then the virus could literally die out. Certainly mass vaccination is the key to opening everything up and getting back to normal.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

I have no idea why this is a "woke" thing. I know damn well my data is being mined, etc.

In a nutshell my generation created a system where people had little accountability. Which it is looking like is about to come and bite everyone quote hard.. Future generations now have to pull the reins on it before it gets out of control.. ' synydyne systems' was never really that far fetched as far as our futures are concerned

. Gone way off topic on this so let everyone get back to the topic in hand "

I'm fully in favour of accountability. Bring it on.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong "

mRNA vaccines were developed first in the late 1980s, by Katalin Karakó. She is now a very senior partner in BioNTech. Her invention has been tested successfully before but never taken to market mainly due to a) lack of funding and b) lack of willingness to deviate from the "good old" methods.

The fact multiple mRNA vaccines were developed by separate organisations within a short time demonstrates that the technology already existed....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

mRNA vaccines were developed first in the late 1980s, by Katalin Karakó. She is now a very senior partner in BioNTech. Her invention has been tested successfully before but never taken to market mainly due to a) lack of funding and b) lack of willingness to deviate from the "good old" methods.

The fact multiple mRNA vaccines were developed by separate organisations within a short time demonstrates that the technology already existed...."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

mRNA vaccines were developed first in the late 1980s, by Katalin Karakó. She is now a very senior partner in BioNTech. Her invention has been tested successfully before but never taken to market mainly due to a) lack of funding and b) lack of willingness to deviate from the "good old" methods.

The fact multiple mRNA vaccines were developed by separate organisations within a short time demonstrates that the technology already existed...."

I notice you avoided explaining how they work and how they are very different to regular injections and still experimental.

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong "

Why do you want proving wrong?

Why don't you put forward pints that prove you are right instead?

Unless you have been living under a rock for the last year? you will have realised we are all part of an experimental milestone in human /mankind evolution..the argument is not what is 'wrong' or even ' right' its about getting on with it and taking your place in society.. Sure you may get a reaction it has been proved a tiny tiny number of people do. You should still take the risk in my opinion.

Do you honestly think everything in life carries no risk even if the government tell you something is tested ' fully' it isn't!

I took the vaccine fully aware there was a risk.. As I'm sure has everyone who now carries it in their veins..

Sure it could have gone wrong! Even then in my opinion that is worth the risk and has to happen anyway to some.. in any experiment there are problems it's part of the process.. Even people dying is part of the process to get something working properly .In my mind not being willing to take part in something for the benefit of mankind? That's just cowardice isn't it? But that's up to your own conscience Just think if we stopped experimenting with things where we would or more accurately would not be in life...

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

mRNA vaccines were developed first in the late 1980s, by Katalin Karakó. She is now a very senior partner in BioNTech. Her invention has been tested successfully before but never taken to market mainly due to a) lack of funding and b) lack of willingness to deviate from the "good old" methods.

The fact multiple mRNA vaccines were developed by separate organisations within a short time demonstrates that the technology already existed....

I notice you avoided explaining how they work and how they are very different to regular injections and still experimental. "

If you'd like an explanation of how they work, I'm happy to oblige. They stimulate exactly the same process of translation of the Covid spike protein that occurs in your cells during natural infection.

In natural infection, the SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA is first transcribed by our cellular machinery, into mRNA (exactly the same as the mRNA that's in the vaccine). This mRNA is then translated on the ribosomes in our cells to form the proteins that make up new viral particles. All these components then reassemble within our cells, burst out and infect new cells. This results in an inflammatory response etc which eventually results in humoral immunity (an antibody response).

The only difference with the vaccine is we skip the bit where your cells are infected with a virus. We introduce the mRNA, without needing to transcribe from the viral RNA, but in the vaccine, the mRNA sequence is only that of the spike protein, not all the genes using found in the virus.

From that mRNA, our ribosomes translate and assemble the spike protein. This triggers cells to send out the same sort of distress signal as if they were infected with the whole virus (antigen presentation) and the immune system kicks in. We also skip the bit where viral particles lyse our cells (break them open) so we avoid the massive inflammatory response that occurs in natural infection too.

Is that good enough?

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

All we can say .."God help us" with this and previous governments track record on anything "IT" based ??....and it's assuming way to much and just another added cost to many ??

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By *quirtyndirty!Couple
over a year ago

Nottingham

Government suggesting we need vaccine passports to visit non essential shops now. Some extremely naive comments on here. Genuinely scares me how easily people have been duped . Drip drip drip

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Government suggesting we need vaccine passports to visit non essential shops now. Some extremely naive comments on here. Genuinely scares me how easily people have been duped . Drip drip drip "

Why naive?

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

mRNA vaccines were developed first in the late 1980s, by Katalin Karakó. She is now a very senior partner in BioNTech. Her invention has been tested successfully before but never taken to market mainly due to a) lack of funding and b) lack of willingness to deviate from the "good old" methods.

The fact multiple mRNA vaccines were developed by separate organisations within a short time demonstrates that the technology already existed....

I notice you avoided explaining how they work and how they are very different to regular injections and still experimental.

If you'd like an explanation of how they work, I'm happy to oblige. They stimulate exactly the same process of translation of the Covid spike protein that occurs in your cells during natural infection.

In natural infection, the SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA is first transcribed by our cellular machinery, into mRNA (exactly the same as the mRNA that's in the vaccine). This mRNA is then translated on the ribosomes in our cells to form the proteins that make up new viral particles. All these components then reassemble within our cells, burst out and infect new cells. This results in an inflammatory response etc which eventually results in humoral immunity (an antibody response).

The only difference with the vaccine is we skip the bit where your cells are infected with a virus. We introduce the mRNA, without needing to transcribe from the viral RNA, but in the vaccine, the mRNA sequence is only that of the spike protein, not all the genes using found in the virus.

From that mRNA, our ribosomes translate and assemble the spike protein. This triggers cells to send out the same sort of distress signal as if they were infected with the whole virus (antigen presentation) and the immune system kicks in. We also skip the bit where viral particles lyse our cells (break them open) so we avoid the massive inflammatory response that occurs in natural infection too.

Is that good enough? "

Am I right in saying that this cannot be reversed?

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

The scheme would hand government and private companies our intimate medical information and threaten to make that intrusion a precondition of participation in civic life.

We might accept that health or social care workers would require a vaccine certificate. But what if all employers did? What if a vaccine passport became a precondition of work? To refuse the vaccine would be to freeze yourself out of work, play or travel: social and professional death. It would be voluntary in theory, compulsory in practice.

This would be an ID card – there’s no other word for it – almost certainly linked to your NHS number. It would allow private companies whose services you use – airlines, restaurants, shopping centres, your bank – access to your private medical data. And it would give your employer that data too.

It’s far more likely that it would be linked to other sorts of data beyond health. The government currently wants to make photo ID mandatory for all UK-wide and English elections from 2023. This is despite the fact that there is absolutely no need for it – there was just one conviction for fraud of this sort in the UK in 2019. Vaccine certificates provide the vehicle: you just expand the health dataset into a voting entitlement dataset. From there, the argument for expanding the dataset to benefits, tax status, police enforcement and other areas becomes obvious.

If you refused care data where your details was being sold

same with the coronavirus tracking app to track everything that went tits up

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

You can't un-transcribe a protein, no. But the protein transcribed will be relatively short lived because it has no function in a cell. Ditto for any untranslated mRNA. All living things are made from the same building blocks, so the mRNA or transcribed protein will be recycled.

You can't un-transcribe the mRNA that you produce each and every time your cells do their normal job. Think about it, every cell contains all of your DNA, therefore every single gene. But, for example, your skin cells do not secrete insulin and your pancreatic cells do not secrete melanin. Only the genes required for the function of a given cell are turned "on" at any time. DNA is within the nucleus; the protein production sites (ribosomes) are outside the nucleus, but the DNA is too large to exit via the nuclear pores. Therefore, when your pancreatic cells require to produce insulin (a protein), a single stranded "photocopy" (transcript) is made. This is mRNA (messenger RNA). This mRNA leaves the nucleus and is translated into the protein by the ribosomes. Insulin is eventually exported from the cells and released into the bloodstream.

All the mRNA vaccines are doing is mimicking that exact process, just missing out the transcription stage. Viruses do not possess ribosomes so they must hijack a cell that contains them. SARS-CoV-2 has a single stranded RNA genome, but to get your cells to translate the viral genes, first, that single stranded RNA is first transcribed to mRNA, then translated on your ribosomes. That's in natural SARS-CoV-2 infection.

The vaccine skips the transcription stage, introduces the mRNA sequence just for the spike protein and you also skip the bit where new viruses assemble and burst out and destroy your cells.

Infinitely better to get vaccine acquired immunity than via natural infection.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You can't un-transcribe a protein, no. But the protein transcribed will be relatively short lived because it has no function in a cell. Ditto for any untranslated mRNA. All living things are made from the same building blocks, so the mRNA or transcribed protein will be recycled.

You can't un-transcribe the mRNA that you produce each and every time your cells do their normal job. Think about it, every cell contains all of your DNA, therefore every single gene. But, for example, your skin cells do not secrete insulin and your pancreatic cells do not secrete melanin. Only the genes required for the function of a given cell are turned "on" at any time. DNA is within the nucleus; the protein production sites (ribosomes) are outside the nucleus, but the DNA is too large to exit via the nuclear pores. Therefore, when your pancreatic cells require to produce insulin (a protein), a single stranded "photocopy" (transcript) is made. This is mRNA (messenger RNA). This mRNA leaves the nucleus and is translated into the protein by the ribosomes. Insulin is eventually exported from the cells and released into the bloodstream.

All the mRNA vaccines are doing is mimicking that exact process, just missing out the transcription stage. Viruses do not possess ribosomes so they must hijack a cell that contains them. SARS-CoV-2 has a single stranded RNA genome, but to get your cells to translate the viral genes, first, that single stranded RNA is first transcribed to mRNA, then translated on your ribosomes. That's in natural SARS-CoV-2 infection.

The vaccine skips the transcription stage, introduces the mRNA sequence just for the spike protein and you also skip the bit where new viruses assemble and burst out and destroy your cells.

Infinitely better to get vaccine acquired immunity than via natural infection."

Thank you that was an interesting read! Much appreciated

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By *idewillyMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

Passports are against human rights...ive had covid i had it bad for3 months and has taken 13 month for me to be in some kind of normal but my muscle and bone fatigue is on going but i wont be getting a jab..and thats my choice and my reasoning is that there is no real conclusion on the effects of the vaccines yet and this can take decades to find the conclusions does anyone remember thalidomide and the effects of that years later im in control of what goes into my body not what this government tells or advises Me off....and besides that i have my own anti bodies From having covid

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Passports are against human rights...ive had covid i had it bad for3 months and has taken 13 month for me to be in some kind of normal but my muscle and bone fatigue is on going but i wont be getting a jab..and thats my choice and my reasoning is that there is no real conclusion on the effects of the vaccines yet and this can take decades to find the conclusions does anyone remember thalidomide and the effects of that years later im in control of what goes into my body not what this government tells or advises Me off....and besides that i have my own anti bodies From having covid"

Please cite the law and judicial precedent which supports your assertion re human rights jurisprudence.

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By *idewillyMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

Of cause they are ....you dont need to go into all the legal crap Paperwork....im not in the legal profession ..as a person you have the right to choose what and what does not go into your body ...your choice not this government ..and if a government says you cant go anywhere without having a jab and a passport saying you have then that is against your rights to move about its imprisionment at the end of the day the ability to control your movement

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Of cause they are ....you dont need to go into all the legal crap Paperwork....im not in the legal profession ..as a person you have the right to choose what and what does not go into your body ...your choice not this government ..and if a government says you cant go anywhere without having a jab and a passport saying you have then that is against your rights to move about its imprisionment at the end of the day the ability to control your movement

"

A right is not "I think this should be so". A right comes with legal protection.

You may think you have a right. You may be sorely mistaken.

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By *entlemanrogueMan
over a year ago

Motherwell

[Removed by poster at 07/04/21 12:58:08]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Passports are against human rights...ive had covid i had it bad for3 months and has taken 13 month for me to be in some kind of normal but my muscle and bone fatigue is on going but i wont be getting a jab..and thats my choice and my reasoning is that there is no real conclusion on the effects of the vaccines yet and this can take decades to find the conclusions does anyone remember thalidomide and the effects of that years later im in control of what goes into my body not what this government tells or advises Me off....and besides that i have my own anti bodies From having covid"

You do know was a normally drug much like paracetemol, codine etc it wasnt a vaccine at all.

So by your logic you don't take any medication in life at all right?

However you feel vaccine passports are happening globally and the UK is following. You can still use public transport and the supermarket as you may need those services. You don't need to go to the theatre and those that do who are vaccinated have a right to be protected from those who arent. Those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons also have the right to be protected.

At least in the UK they won't be introduced until every single adult has been offered the vaccine. Most other countries in the original post are putting it in place now before everyone has been offered the job.

KJ

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

You do know *thalidomide

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I do love how medicine is so awful that the same handful of catastrophes get trotted out.

I'll see your thalidomide, Tuskegee, etc, and raise you - all the things we learned from it and the thousands or millions of things that didn't go wrong.

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong "

People refusing the vaccine will be responsible for giving the virus enough community transmission to mutate ......

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Let's see. Twice a year tests and T cell protection against all variants which exist so far, versus lockdown and susceptibility to illness, disability, and death.

Give me that good jabbin'

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South


"You do know *thalidomide"

You know... measles... polio... hepC..... meningitis... whooping cough

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If people feel their rights are or may be infringed upon, I suggest they build a credible argument or set of arguments and organise politically. Seriously.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Do people know that Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine. It often gets presented as a demonstration that vaccines can go wrong, but it is a totally irrelevant comparison.

Yes it was dangerous to the unborn children of the ladies who were given it as a prevention for morning sickness. On the other hand, it is STILL in use as a cancer treatment and is under research as a treatment for several other things.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Do people know that Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine. It often gets presented as a demonstration that vaccines can go wrong, but it is a totally irrelevant comparison.

Yes it was dangerous to the unborn children of the ladies who were given it as a prevention for morning sickness. On the other hand, it is STILL in use as a cancer treatment and is under research as a treatment for several other things."

I know.

It's a demonstration of the way in which medicine can go wrong, with graphic evidence of suffering.

But it's like people think we've learned nothing from that, which is crazy.

And the survivors of thalidomide have actually come out to say "don't associate us with anti vaxxers"

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By *idewillyMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

Ive had the virus....I have antibodies that i made myself...and stand my ground with what i put in my body and what a dont...Even when i had a long battle with long covid...it is not right to force people to take the the vaccine by taking away the privilege of movement if they refuse to have The vaccine thats the persons choice...but there should be proper checks in place and testing and isolation ive no problem with that...the whole reason we are in this mess in the first place is that the government didnt act fast enough didnt shut the airports and harbours from the start and lockdown should of been lockdown for 4 months compulsory and then no travel until at least 18 months later plus then isolation hotels coming into the uk and i was saying that from day one besides the government letting people mix at Christmas and the reason so they can switch the blame to the for Public for their own mishandling of the situation and its idiotic people booking holidays in overseas vacations while many nations have other variants of covid that the vaccines that have been given might not be up to the job of protecting you against even the pm said the possibility of a 3rd vaccination yet to fight off the new variants

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Ok

If you believe your rights are being infringed upon or may be infringed upon, organise politically and/or write to your MP.

Probably most effective if done against a backdrop of understanding what rights do and do not exist in the UK, the legal position (hint: ECHR), precedent for public health restrictions or vaccine mandates, etc.

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By *idewillyMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

just because i dont agree with you....too bad....i dont and thats my choice at the end of the day you have your Ideas i have mine and thats what make people unique and different we havnt all got to agree so i agree to differ with you

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"just because i dont agree with you....too bad....i dont and thats my choice at the end of the day you have your Ideas i have mine and thats what make people unique and different we havnt all got to agree so i agree to differ with you "

Please point out where I said you had to agree with me.

I'm suggesting the most productive way forward if you believe your rights are being infringed upon.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"just because i dont agree with you....too bad....i dont and thats my choice at the end of the day you have your Ideas i have mine and thats what make people unique and different we havnt all got to agree so i agree to differ with you "

But your ideas, opinions on this issue are not going to change anything though. What is happening is happening. Swing was giving you decent advice if you feel strongly enough that you want to act as oppose to just complaining on the sidelines.

Shouting about these things on a swingers forum sint going to stop them from happening.

The only thing that's still up for debate is if a vaccine passport will be needed for pubs as manadated by the goverment or will the goverment decides that pubs should make that call themselves.

The goverment has protected supermarkets and public transport from needing a vaccine passport as people 'need' those services. Anything outside of that is a matter of debate.

If I was a pub owner and 80% of my customer base were vaccinated and 5% medically exempt versus 15% of my customer base been Anti Vaxx then I would go with vaccine passports to enter. Keeping the 85% happy and feeling safe is clearly the smart business choice surely?

KJ

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think a simple answer to showing whether or not a person has had both doses of the vaccine would be to devise a QR code that can be issued by a person's GP surgery and downloaded onto a smart phone or other device.

That code would contain nothing except information to say the person has had both covid jabs and is expected to be covid free. No other medical details would need to be entered into the QR code.

That QR code could then be shown to any person authorised to control entry on behalf of an organisation such as a shopping centre or other place, or a sports stadium or entertainment venue, by the person wishing to enter and have it read by a hand held scanner.

Should a person without a QR code wish to enter such a place they could be invited to take a rapid covid test and leave their details with the person doing the checks/testing so that they can be contacted in the event of the test showing positive.

If such a person doesn't have a QR code or refuses to provide their details or voluntarily take a rapid test, they could be refused entry after being given another chance to take a rapid test.

In the event that anyone does not own a smart phone or other device capable of downloading a QR code, the person's GP surgery could simply send one in letter form to the person and that could be carried in the person's purse or wallet should they so wish. They could not and should not be forced to carry it with them. It is their right not to. At least they would have the option to or not to.

After all that has happened in the past year I honestly think that once people realise they're alive because of measures taken by the Government and the sterling work done by our wonderful NHS, that further measures to ensure the health and well being of the current and future generations should be welcomed and not railed against.

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford


"I do love how medicine is so awful that the same handful of catastrophes get trotted out.

I'll see your thalidomide, Tuskegee, etc, and raise you - all the things we learned from it and the thousands or millions of things that didn't go wrong."

Now that's just rubbish isn't it.. Trotting out the thalidomide one particularly! All medicines carry a risk. Look at the leaflet that comes with paracetamol or Co codamol particularly! We are all warned

I do wonder at people who say ' I'm not very comfortable with..' whatever it is and to expect that's enough to change people's minds. It doesn't change mine that much.

As been said on here many times we can not make advancements in medicine without some form of risk.. If some subjects become ill or worse? .. Then realistically that's part of the process..

Arguably most people on this forum have 'taken' smoked, swallowed or injected something into their bodies that carries some form of risk at some time in their lives.. They survived but others who did the same thing did not! Yet people will take the same things again the next weekend despite that! .. It's a bit lame suddenly deciding they aren't putting poisons in their body when some of them have been doing it for decades without a thought .. You only have to Look at all the fab 'sniffers' on here each weekend to know it still goes on . I wonder how many will object to a vaccine though?

The other point.. See lots on here digging in their heels with a 'wont/shant' attitude to Covid related stuff.. it seems they are thinking they will somehow not have to comply in some way in the future rules and regulations that are definitely coming .. Whereas the reality is that they absolutely will have to comply with them to some extent .. Lots of them won't have a choice if they want to keep on working.. Self employed tradesmen particularly .. What people don't want at the moment is a divided society right? .. Particularly where work and play is concerned.. In order for us all to be able to do both like we used to I think an awful lot of people will need to change their mindsets about vaccine, testing and the reality that Covid exists. It will shore up our future as a species ..

Either that or the total deniers will need to find somewhere they can live off grid and be totally self sufficient won't they? .. It's the only way they can remain part of the same society in the long run. People will become paranoid about who is 'safe' and who is not..

An example I had a bit of an experiment of my own today after recent events .. We have arranged gas fitters coming to the house this week to finish fitting a new underfloor heating system in .. I have asked that they be Covid tested or simply they aren't coming in.. I think that's reasonable given the current situation right? .I was told Covid safety would be ensured at all times, masks would be worn etc but not any testing beforehand . I said no to that as these are young lads who have had no protection from the virus at all.

Still they refused to supply tested results on arrival. I rejected the workmen. They are now changing the fitters to 50 plus year olds who have been vaccinated twice and willing to prove it .. Though the company still won't prove they are tested negative for covid or show me any evidence of it one way or the other. It sounds a bit petty doesn't it? However, as an experiment it worked.I informed the company after this visit no more workmen would be allowed on the property without proof of negative Covid tests.. And naturally I offered the same deal.. That I would provide evidence of my negative test results etc.. It did confuse the customer service rep ( there's no button for this or option drop down box on the screen.. So they declined to say much. I hinted they might not want to lose the work so should comply with my request

On this one instance this week I'm letting them in to finish the work on the heating because this was /is an experiment of mine to see what would happen.. In future those will be my rules though and it will apply to anyone who crosses the threshold.. ..

Given we can all get lots of tests each week now I don't see the problem with this request? In the future I would be insisting workmen, family and friends etc all of them proving they are tested Covid free or they won't be coming in to the house . I won't be visiting them if I can't prove my health either

I think that's how we will keep this thing at bay in the months to come people being sensible and careful when restrictions start to lift

That's the sort of future we are going to have isn't it? .. One where we rightly need to prove our health status to each other .. So the more who comply and just get on with what needs doing at the moment the easier it will be for us all to rub along together again and get back to how we used to be a little more each day.

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By *rack and FieldMan
over a year ago

Doncaster

So if you had naturally generated immunity (tcell) would you still have the 'vaccine'....?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"So if you had naturally generated immunity (tcell) would you still have the 'vaccine'....?

"

Yes.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I do love how medicine is so awful that the same handful of catastrophes get trotted out.

I'll see your thalidomide, Tuskegee, etc, and raise you - all the things we learned from it and the thousands or millions of things that didn't go wrong.

Now that's just rubbish isn't it.. Trotting out the thalidomide one particularly! All medicines carry a risk. Look at the leaflet that comes with paracetamol or Co codamol particularly! We are all warned

I do wonder at people who say ' I'm not very comfortable with..' whatever it is and to expect that's enough to change people's minds. It doesn't change mine that much.

As been said on here many times we can not make advancements in medicine without some form of risk.. If some subjects become ill or worse? .. Then realistically that's part of the process..

Arguably most people on this forum have 'taken' smoked, swallowed or injected something into their bodies that carries some form of risk at some time in their lives.. They survived but others who did the same thing did not! Yet people will take the same things again the next weekend despite that! .. It's a bit lame suddenly deciding they aren't putting poisons in their body when some of them have been doing it for decades without a thought .. You only have to Look at all the fab 'sniffers' on here each weekend to know it still goes on . I wonder how many will object to a vaccine though?

The other point.. See lots on here digging in their heels with a 'wont/shant' attitude to Covid related stuff.. it seems they are thinking they will somehow not have to comply in some way in the future rules and regulations that are definitely coming .. Whereas the reality is that they absolutely will have to comply with them to some extent .. Lots of them won't have a choice if they want to keep on working.. Self employed tradesmen particularly .. What people don't want at the moment is a divided society right? .. Particularly where work and play is concerned.. In order for us all to be able to do both like we used to I think an awful lot of people will need to change their mindsets about vaccine, testing and the reality that Covid exists. It will shore up our future as a species ..

Either that or the total deniers will need to find somewhere they can live off grid and be totally self sufficient won't they? .. It's the only way they can remain part of the same society in the long run. People will become paranoid about who is 'safe' and who is not..

An example I had a bit of an experiment of my own today after recent events .. We have arranged gas fitters coming to the house this week to finish fitting a new underfloor heating system in .. I have asked that they be Covid tested or simply they aren't coming in.. I think that's reasonable given the current situation right? .I was told Covid safety would be ensured at all times, masks would be worn etc but not any testing beforehand . I said no to that as these are young lads who have had no protection from the virus at all.

Still they refused to supply tested results on arrival. I rejected the workmen. They are now changing the fitters to 50 plus year olds who have been vaccinated twice and willing to prove it .. Though the company still won't prove they are tested negative for covid or show me any evidence of it one way or the other. It sounds a bit petty doesn't it? However, as an experiment it worked.I informed the company after this visit no more workmen would be allowed on the property without proof of negative Covid tests.. And naturally I offered the same deal.. That I would provide evidence of my negative test results etc.. It did confuse the customer service rep ( there's no button for this or option drop down box on the screen.. So they declined to say much. I hinted they might not want to lose the work so should comply with my request

On this one instance this week I'm letting them in to finish the work on the heating because this was /is an experiment of mine to see what would happen.. In future those will be my rules though and it will apply to anyone who crosses the threshold.. ..

Given we can all get lots of tests each week now I don't see the problem with this request? In the future I would be insisting workmen, family and friends etc all of them proving they are tested Covid free or they won't be coming in to the house . I won't be visiting them if I can't prove my health either

I think that's how we will keep this thing at bay in the months to come people being sensible and careful when restrictions start to lift

That's the sort of future we are going to have isn't it? .. One where we rightly need to prove our health status to each other .. So the more who comply and just get on with what needs doing at the moment the easier it will be for us all to rub along together again and get back to how we used to be a little more each day. "

I think this is an excellent post. Thank you. Lots to think about.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"So if you had naturally generated immunity (tcell) would you still have the 'vaccine'....?

"

I have and did

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I do love how medicine is so awful that the same handful of catastrophes get trotted out.

I'll see your thalidomide, Tuskegee, etc, and raise you - all the things we learned from it and the thousands or millions of things that didn't go wrong.

Now that's just rubbish isn't it.. Trotting out the thalidomide one particularly! All medicines carry a risk. Look at the leaflet that comes with paracetamol or Co codamol particularly! We are all warned

I do wonder at people who say ' I'm not very comfortable with..' whatever it is and to expect that's enough to change people's minds. It doesn't change mine that much.

As been said on here many times we can not make advancements in medicine without some form of risk.. If some subjects become ill or worse? .. Then realistically that's part of the process..

Arguably most people on this forum have 'taken' smoked, swallowed or injected something into their bodies that carries some form of risk at some time in their lives.. They survived but others who did the same thing did not! Yet people will take the same things again the next weekend despite that! .. It's a bit lame suddenly deciding they aren't putting poisons in their body when some of them have been doing it for decades without a thought .. You only have to Look at all the fab 'sniffers' on here each weekend to know it still goes on . I wonder how many will object to a vaccine though?

The other point.. See lots on here digging in their heels with a 'wont/shant' attitude to Covid related stuff.. it seems they are thinking they will somehow not have to comply in some way in the future rules and regulations that are definitely coming .. Whereas the reality is that they absolutely will have to comply with them to some extent .. Lots of them won't have a choice if they want to keep on working.. Self employed tradesmen particularly .. What people don't want at the moment is a divided society right? .. Particularly where work and play is concerned.. In order for us all to be able to do both like we used to I think an awful lot of people will need to change their mindsets about vaccine, testing and the reality that Covid exists. It will shore up our future as a species ..

Either that or the total deniers will need to find somewhere they can live off grid and be totally self sufficient won't they? .. It's the only way they can remain part of the same society in the long run. People will become paranoid about who is 'safe' and who is not..

An example I had a bit of an experiment of my own today after recent events .. We have arranged gas fitters coming to the house this week to finish fitting a new underfloor heating system in .. I have asked that they be Covid tested or simply they aren't coming in.. I think that's reasonable given the current situation right? .I was told Covid safety would be ensured at all times, masks would be worn etc but not any testing beforehand . I said no to that as these are young lads who have had no protection from the virus at all.

Still they refused to supply tested results on arrival. I rejected the workmen. They are now changing the fitters to 50 plus year olds who have been vaccinated twice and willing to prove it .. Though the company still won't prove they are tested negative for covid or show me any evidence of it one way or the other. It sounds a bit petty doesn't it? However, as an experiment it worked.I informed the company after this visit no more workmen would be allowed on the property without proof of negative Covid tests.. And naturally I offered the same deal.. That I would provide evidence of my negative test results etc.. It did confuse the customer service rep ( there's no button for this or option drop down box on the screen.. So they declined to say much. I hinted they might not want to lose the work so should comply with my request

On this one instance this week I'm letting them in to finish the work on the heating because this was /is an experiment of mine to see what would happen.. In future those will be my rules though and it will apply to anyone who crosses the threshold.. ..

Given we can all get lots of tests each week now I don't see the problem with this request? In the future I would be insisting workmen, family and friends etc all of them proving they are tested Covid free or they won't be coming in to the house . I won't be visiting them if I can't prove my health either

I think that's how we will keep this thing at bay in the months to come people being sensible and careful when restrictions start to lift

That's the sort of future we are going to have isn't it? .. One where we rightly need to prove our health status to each other .. So the more who comply and just get on with what needs doing at the moment the easier it will be for us all to rub along together again and get back to how we used to be a little more each day.

I think this is an excellent post. Thank you. Lots to think about."

it is but seems a bit odd coming from someone who is anti vaccine passport? aren't you as a householder very similar to a business owner who he/she may not allow into their premises. I think it will all come down to commerce and choice from non essential service providers and those that use them

d

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us....

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us...."

If I could get into my local pub....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us....

If I could get into my local pub.... "

Discrimination is a brand new thing that only applies to vaccines. Silly girl

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us....

If I could get into my local pub....

Discrimination is a brand new thing that only applies to vaccines. Silly girl "

I shall brandish my vaccination "passport" from the bottom of the steps!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us....

If I could get into my local pub....

Discrimination is a brand new thing that only applies to vaccines. Silly girl

I shall brandish my vaccination "passport" from the bottom of the steps! "

You're supporting discrimination and apartheid from... a place you can't enter through no fault of your own

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

------

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

The current set if vaccines have all demonstrated that they provide good protection against "all" of the strains that have currently be found.

If enough people around the world are vaccinated, then the virus could literally die out. Certainly mass vaccination is the key to opening everything up and getting back to normal. "

Mass vaccination has wiped out several diseases worldwide already.

Jab are already required for travel to ....nothing new in this idea...just an extension.

Choices have consequences... simple!

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"How 'vaccine passports' work in other countries so far

Israel has given inoculated citizens a "Green Pass" so they can use gyms and hotels.

China has built a vaccine passport system into WeChat, its most popular social network.

Denmark has developed a "Coronapas" system granting access to hairdressers, restaurants and cinemas for immunised citizens.

France is considering a "health pass" allowing vaccinated people to resume leisure activities.

Bahrain has introduced the "BeAware" app that can be used to prove that subjects have received two doses of a jab.

Latest from Boris / Government -

The Government also opened the door to the mass use of Covid status certification checks – described as Covid passports – saying they are likely to become "a feature of our lives" until the pandemic fades.

The Government said Covid status checks could "play a role" in reopening theatres and nightclubs as well as mass events such as festivals or sports matches, but they should "never be required" for "essential public services, public transport and essential shops".

On the use of checks for pubs, it was much less clear. Consideration will continue, with the idea not ruled out – although pubs will be allowed to open without them for outdoor drinkers without them on April 12, with indoor serving planned for May 17.

Businesses would not be banned wholesale from using such checks, the Government said. The document explained that many companies would be free to adopt such measures provided they did not break equality laws.

Pilots for reopening large events will see Covid status checks trialled this month and next. It remains unclear when social distancing rules, included working from home, will be lifted.

This is a world away from the goverments and Boris early stance against vaccine passports. I think its fairly certain now they will become a reality for us all and be with us for a few years.

KJ

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was reading an article about the Israeli COVID passports. Apparently they were used in the start of opening up however now that they have reached herd immunity use of them has dropped off. It appears to have been used as a way of encouraging the youth to get vaccinated.

If that happens here I feel it’s just going to be another contract going to private companies resulting in the same waste of taxpayers money as the test and trace app fiasco.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

On 17 March 2021, the European Commission presented a proposal to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate the safe free movement of citizens within the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/covid-19-digital-green-certificates_en

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I do think that a recent negative test should be an acceptable alternative- this should mean that those who can't or don't wish to be vaccinated and those who haven't been offered it yet will not be excluded. Those who haven't been vaccinated should have regular tests anyway.

------

Those who've already been vaxed will find that they will not be protected from new strain and so will have to be tested twice a year also. And so on that basis we are back to aquare one. Please research how mRNA vaxs work this is a experimental injection. Please prove me wrong

The current set if vaccines have all demonstrated that they provide good protection against "all" of the strains that have currently be found.

If enough people around the world are vaccinated, then the virus could literally die out. Certainly mass vaccination is the key to opening everything up and getting back to normal.

Mass vaccination has wiped out several diseases worldwide already.

Jab are already required for travel to ....nothing new in this idea...just an extension.

Choices have consequences... simple!"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

UK sport bodies back use of 'vaccine passports' to allow return of capacity crowds.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/56683611.amp

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

UK sport bodies back use of 'vaccine passports' to allow return of capacity crowds.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/56683611.amp"

It'll be brilliant for businesses.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"So all a crock of shite then as we can’t even offer the vaccine to everyone in the country yet but we’re going to open pubs and gyms etc to the vulnerable, so not only have we sacrificed our way of life for them but they can return to normal before the rest of us...."

Seems a bit of a mixed bag in your post. The first reopenings and conditions apply to all, unless infected.

The idea of the covid certificate/passport for use in the UK, to potentially create safer options for places and people, is matched by countries around the world. It's an idea at present and could make some organisations afford to operate some options, due to customer volumes. It wouldn't have to be the only way to get this, as entry testing and other systems could work too.

Some vulnerabile people may always miss out on some things and we should reduce those barriers as much as possible.

Future variants may be countered by booster jabs.

As so many countries are doing this passport type system, we'd be remiss if we didn't look at it, as a possibility to get the economy on a stronger footing and people able to access more of the things that they want to in life.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney


"I was reading an article about the Israeli COVID passports. Apparently they were used in the start of opening up however now that they have reached herd immunity use of them has dropped off. It appears to have been used as a way of encouraging the youth to get vaccinated.

If that happens here I feel it’s just going to be another contract going to private companies resulting in the same waste of taxpayers money as the test and trace app fiasco."

i agree. it is just another pointless waste of time and money if it is implemented when all those who wish to be inocculated have been, especially the negative test nonsense. it just means more tax payers money dished out to government chums.

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