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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." This  | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ?" My question too although that still leaves half the population unvaccinated , only 10% fully vaccinated and the fact that the vaccine may only be 80-90% effective? | |||
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"It was announced yesterday that parent and toddler groups with 15 adults can meet indoors from 12th April. Yet I can't invite my daughter or my mum into my house. It doesn't make sense. " I agree Sally.. | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ? My question too although that still leaves half the population unvaccinated , only 10% fully vaccinated and the fact that the vaccine may only be 80-90% effective? " Yes but something like 95% of deaths were in the groups already vaccinated... so what gives? How can we have another wave? | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that?" Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ? My question too although that still leaves half the population unvaccinated , only 10% fully vaccinated and the fact that the vaccine may only be 80-90% effective? Yes but something like 95% of deaths were in the groups already vaccinated... so what gives? How can we have another wave?" Because there are other people of varying ages & health in this country who can still catch this virus. Not complex, no conspiracy. | |||
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"Do you not think it is the uncertainty over the new variants / Europe before the vaccines are tweaked Maybe ?" There is that . I just think that the models seem very pessimistic although it does appear obvious that Covid is going nowhere soon and nor is social distancing for the foreseeable future | |||
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"Do you not think it is the uncertainty over the new variants / Europe before the vaccines are tweaked Maybe ? There is that . I just think that the models seem very pessimistic although it does appear obvious that Covid is going nowhere soon and nor is social distancing for the foreseeable future " My understanding is that public health does better when the models are pessimistic. Like, it's better to overreact than have a huge number of people die. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." Scamming who ??? why ??? what for ??? | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. " I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. | |||
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"With so many people bow having been vaccinated, how can they expect a third wave that will keep us in lockdown for another year? Does the vaccine do nothing?" Read back up the thread, google what the vaccine does, read other threads, look at the NHS and or government websites. It is all there. | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself." Yes, I've just skimmed it. I take away, infections will rise, perhaps dramatically, effect on hospitalisation and death unknown (immunity via vaccination may wane or not have been induced), Long Covid to be watched for. They think Covid could be in part seasonal (not sure) and so a relaxed low Covid summer does not mean winter won't be tough. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. " Sure it can. Politicians can decide things, with or without science. The scientists can show them data and go "umm... That might not be good" The politicians may or may not listen. The politicians may or may not change their minds: see Christmas. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. " Does anybody have any links to these sage figures realised this morning suggest II ng a 3rd wave is coming? I can't seem to find anything on it searching on google, new sites?? Cheers KJ | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. " like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. Sure it can. Politicians can decide things, with or without science. The scientists can show them data and go "umm... That might not be good" The politicians may or may not listen. The politicians may or may not change their minds: see Christmas." Fully agree with that. Politicians have mastered the craft of the ability to avoid a straight plain simple "yes or no" answer. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. Does anybody have any links to these sage figures realised this morning suggest II ng a 3rd wave is coming? I can't seem to find anything on it searching on google, new sites?? Cheers KJ" https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eighty-fifth-sage-meeting-on-covid-19-31-march-2021 | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public." There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare." Next to nothing  
Infection rates won't drop, without restrictions, until we hit herd immunity. Which is bloody ages away. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. " For sure. It's an interesting sociological phenomenon. (For once it wasn't a slam on the Tories. I'm thinking globally, lol) | |||
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"With so many people bow having been vaccinated, how can they expect a third wave that will keep us in lockdown for another year? Does the vaccine do nothing? Read back up the thread, google what the vaccine does, read other threads, look at the NHS and or government websites. It is all there." ... And there is a perfect example... | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Yes, I've just skimmed it. I take away, infections will rise, perhaps dramatically, effect on hospitalisation and death unknown (immunity via vaccination may wane or not have been induced), Long Covid to be watched for. They think Covid could be in part seasonal (not sure) and so a relaxed low Covid summer does not mean winter won't be tough." Thsnk you so its just stuff we already know and will be mindful of / prepare for. Not what the OP was saying at all. Cheers KJ | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ?" I suppose that’s the point. 30M people still not vaccinated! Our biggest hospital in Birmingham now still has plenty of Covid patients, nearly all of them are now under 50. | |||
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"Do you not think it is the uncertainty over the new variants / Europe before the vaccines are tweaked Maybe ? There is that . I just think that the models seem very pessimistic although it does appear obvious that Covid is going nowhere soon and nor is social distancing for the foreseeable future " It's strange though how we, and the general media don't go on about the flu every year. When was the last time you heard on the news or read in the media someone saying "we need to be cautious, this flu isn't going to go away, we're going to have to learn to live with it". Personally, I think when the day comes that covid is at the same level as annual flu (and it will), the BBC and media outlets will pull their hair out and sob loudly as they won't have anything to doom monger or scaremonger about. | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself." Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. Sure it can. Politicians can decide things, with or without science. The scientists can show them data and go "umm... That might not be good" The politicians may or may not listen. The politicians may or may not change their minds: see Christmas." Scientists may get things wrong.? Or change their conclusions as knowledge grows. Predicting more infections in this country is akin to predicting the sun will rise tomorrow morning. Having 50k people converging on a stadium and in a stadium is going to be higher risk than not having 50k people travelling to a stadium and returning home from a stadium. Scientists don't all agree with eachother. Scientists sometimes conclude diametrically opposed outcomes. Scientists aren't gods, they help a balanced and complex decision making process amongst many other things.and wear white coats... Don't they? | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." bravo | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because last night's announcement clearly had the country on firm track to reopen the entire country by June 21st. No question, no issues. This morning SAGE released figures and information that have been collated showing that there's a spike heading to a 3rd wave and another potential lockdown with a now highly unlikely June 21st restrictions removal. It cant be BOTH. We're either reopening tne country or we're not. You can't tell the entire country that the plans for reopening are on firm track and looking optimistic then 12 hours later have the scientific results you've been trustedly relying on for 12 months tell you that it highly unlikely. Sure it can. Politicians can decide things, with or without science. The scientists can show them data and go "umm... That might not be good" The politicians may or may not listen. The politicians may or may not change their minds: see Christmas. Scientists may get things wrong.? Or change their conclusions as knowledge grows. Predicting more infections in this country is akin to predicting the sun will rise tomorrow morning. Having 50k people converging on a stadium and in a stadium is going to be higher risk than not having 50k people travelling to a stadium and returning home from a stadium. Scientists don't all agree with eachother. Scientists sometimes conclude diametrically opposed outcomes. Scientists aren't gods, they help a balanced and complex decision making process amongst many other things.and wear white coats... Don't they? " Sure, science changes and develops, consensuses change, mistakes or mistaken assumptions happen. Although in the grand scheme "politicians" (not just Tories) "don't listen to scientists and politicians" (not just Tories) "flip flop" is a much more important contributory factor. | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ? I suppose that’s the point. 30M people still not vaccinated! Our biggest hospital in Birmingham now still has plenty of Covid patients, nearly all of them are now under 50." And this. Half the country partially vaccinated = half not vaccinated at all. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." world wide countries are pushing that covid status passport for domestic use (not just international to low vax'd countries). Even if you've got antibodies/immunity from covid they are still trying to say you still need to stick to whatever gov tells you now and in future, vaccinations have went well and most are vulnerable vax'd. they carrying on with restrictions much later than summer is draconian, slamming us back in every winter is too. they'll be doing it because they realised how easy it was to get us to do it first time round, same fear tactics would produce same results. (it's exactly what china does with its media, it forms part of their control basis.) I am not even going to get started on the manipulated numbers nor the fear mongering media (which could have frightened people so much they believed they would die from it & therefore did, family around is also a well know immune & mind booster as there's someone to live for, the mind is powerful.) Death in the 80+ happens ALOT, cos guess what? that's what happens in life, you live, you get old, you die, that is the way life is. everyone should know by now that being overweight is not medically health and will put them at much higher risk which only they can start to solve by looking at their lives. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. " reminds me what my economic stats lecturer said to me: "there are 3 types of lies, white lies, damn lies and statistics" because statistics acn be calculated to form what every opinion you want it to read and how they are told i.e. 100K vs 0.15% makes a huge difference to the psyche and fear factors. every one keep banging on about follow the science & seems to completely forget science is only accepted fact until we know otherwise which is always trying to be figured out. I.e. Eistein's laws of gravity you know the famous e=mc2 is not under scrutiny as it doesn't work universally only on large massed calculations,, it doesn't fit with quantum.....that has been used for hundreds of years as fact! black holes now suck & spit stuff out. the plague is not treatable with antiboitics science is always changing and scientists always somehow make the results seem dire. classic current one is covid having over a 99% survival but all we hear is deaths which are less than 1%, not recoveries. 66,600,000 people in this country 0.15% died, largely those over life expectancy of 80 years old and most with an underlying conditions. healthy is not being overweight which 2/3's of our country are, that was personal choice to put themselves at greater risks, they are warned consistently about the dangers (in most cases.). any yes I am omitting emotion as this is a whole world issue and many people die every day of many things, death is not new and we are all well aware that those people were something to someone as we all are, that is unavoidable. Quality of life is important. | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? " I can’t find any from April 5th | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th" Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March" And meeting point 16 from 31st March meeting indicated hospital numbers and deaths will not be as bad as previously due to the vaccination programme | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March And meeting point 16 from 31st March meeting indicated hospital numbers and deaths will not be as bad as previously due to the vaccination programme" It’s the 85th meeting minutes - just to clarify | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March And meeting point 16 from 31st March meeting indicated hospital numbers and deaths will not be as bad as previously due to the vaccination programme It’s the 85th meeting minutes - just to clarify " Yes, that's what I read. I think it's sensible to model from pessimistic figures, tbh. | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March And meeting point 16 from 31st March meeting indicated hospital numbers and deaths will not be as bad as previously due to the vaccination programme It’s the 85th meeting minutes - just to clarify Yes, that's what I read. I think it's sensible to model from pessimistic figures, tbh." Be careful. You will get called Professor Lockdown | |||
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"I blame the media for all the scare mongering and giving pessimistic scientists the air time .... as someone earlier said, why bother with the vaccine .... if it’s not going to stop waves of deaths ... it’s got to be treated like the flu we have every year .... but there’s one good thing, no one in the last 12 months as died of the flu or old age... so I suppose that’s a positive move forward .... always after a cure for aging, the covid vaccine is the answer ... stops u popping yr clogs of old age .... "My Mum died of old age.....sure she wasn’t the only one last year. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." Me too and the longer it goes on folk are more likely to break the rules including me. | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself. Maybe read the SAGE minutes from April 5th - goalpost change? I can’t find any from April 5th Me neither. Other things have been uploaded but no SAGE document later than the end of March And meeting point 16 from 31st March meeting indicated hospital numbers and deaths will not be as bad as previously due to the vaccination programme It’s the 85th meeting minutes - just to clarify Yes, that's what I read. I think it's sensible to model from pessimistic figures, tbh. Be careful. You will get called Professor Lockdown" I don't give a flying fuck what I get called on here | |||
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"It was announced yesterday that parent and toddler groups with 15 adults can meet indoors from 12th April. Yet I can't invite my daughter or my mum into my house. It doesn't make sense. " because we have to phase opening , can’t do it all at once or we wouldn’t be able to tell what were the problem items causing spikes so that requires prioritisation early child development in a controlled environment has a better risk reward ratio than getting your family round for a cuddle so its gone higher up the priority list too often people say it doesn’t make sense when what they mean is it doesn’t suit me | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted?" surely given the current situation and after yesterday reading between the lines future predictions for the UK.. I don't think I can see clubs opening this year unfortunately. Pubs etc maybe for a few Summer months but closed again by June I should think if the 3rd wave comes in and we still can't control the virus despite the vaccinations etc.. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. reminds me what my economic stats lecturer said to me: "there are 3 types of lies, white lies, damn lies and statistics" because statistics acn be calculated to form what every opinion you want it to read and how they are told i.e. 100K vs 0.15% makes a huge difference to the psyche and fear factors. every one keep banging on about follow the science & seems to completely forget science is only accepted fact until we know otherwise which is always trying to be figured out. I.e. Eistein's laws of gravity you know the famous e=mc2 is not under scrutiny as it doesn't work universally only on large massed calculations,, it doesn't fit with quantum.....that has been used for hundreds of years as fact! black holes now suck & spit stuff out. the plague is not treatable with antiboitics science is always changing and scientists always somehow make the results seem dire. classic current one is covid having over a 99% survival but all we hear is deaths which are less than 1%, not recoveries. 66,600,000 people in this country 0.15% died, largely those over life expectancy of 80 years old and most with an underlying conditions. healthy is not being overweight which 2/3's of our country are, that was personal choice to put themselves at greater risks, they are warned consistently about the dangers (in most cases.). any yes I am omitting emotion as this is a whole world issue and many people die every day of many things, death is not new and we are all well aware that those people were something to someone as we all are, that is unavoidable. Quality of life is important. " Like the way you said statistics can be manipulated and then quoted the UK population and said 0.15% have died. Are you saying the whole population has had COVID? | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted?" People perhaps need to understand that there is no total solution to this. Everything we are currently doing is part of one very big experiment that may or may not work.. Think of thev' Barnes Wallace' approach developing the ' bouncing bomb'.. It's all new and never been tried before so we experiment until it does. Most of what is happening is based on how things go in other countries.. France for example is a good yardstick to see what's likely to happen in the UK in the next month or two .. Hence now the fear of the 3rd wave hitting us ! ( if the vaccine doesn't work as expected of course! ) The idea that people are expecting some kind of magic bullet answer and we can all be ' free' on June 21st? Or even next week as very innocent and naive! .. Everyone needs to take on board that we are guinea pigs ! This is all 'suck it and see' if the vaccine works and stops or slows down infection rates we can carry on.. If not? .. We think of something else that might work.. Until it finally does.The ideas will develop and evolve the way we as a race have. Clearly world leaders at the moment are New Zealand and Australia.. So it's likely we will end up doing what they did if nothing works .. If what they do continues to work that is! .. If it doesn't we are going to have to think again. Anyone actually believing there is going to be a great re opening of the UK in the next few months probably needs to take a big reality pill and stay on for the ride because that is not going to happen the way we think it will .. We have a long way to go yet I would say. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? People perhaps need to understand that there is no total solution to this. Everything we are currently doing is part of one very big experiment that may or may not work.. Think of thev' Barnes Wallace' approach developing the ' bouncing bomb'.. It's all new and never been tried before so we experiment until it does. Most of what is happening is based on how things go in other countries.. France for example is a good yardstick to see what's likely to happen in the UK in the next month or two .. Hence now the fear of the 3rd wave hitting us ! ( if the vaccine doesn't work as expected of course! ) The idea that people are expecting some kind of magic bullet answer and we can all be ' free' on June 21st? Or even next week as very innocent and naive! .. Everyone needs to take on board that we are guinea pigs ! This is all 'suck it and see' if the vaccine works and stops or slows down infection rates we can carry on.. If not? .. We think of something else that might work.. Until it finally does.The ideas will develop and evolve the way we as a race have. Clearly world leaders at the moment are New Zealand and Australia.. So it's likely we will end up doing what they did if nothing works .. If what they do continues to work that is! .. If it doesn't we are going to have to think again. Anyone actually believing there is going to be a great re opening of the UK in the next few months probably needs to take a big reality pill and stay on for the ride because that is not going to happen the way we think it will .. We have a long way to go yet I would say. "
Yup.
It's a bunch of if this, then that, but maybe...
Lots of unknowns, lots of variables. Depends on the science, the politics, the international situation, and probably more. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." Those people you're starting to believe, what evidence is there for that? Compared to the evidence of the virus, the hundreds of thousands here and elsewhere who have died, the millions living with life-altering health problems? They're all in on the scam? | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ?" This^^^^^ I predict, based on the science I've read, that we may well have huge waves of infection, but low rates of hospitalisation and deaths. That means looking out for variants, and maybe boosters as we find out the longevity of the jabs. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare." Haven’t you noticed that the infection rate has dropped from 60,000 per day in January to 3,000 now and the number of deaths from 1,200 per day to 30 now? The problem is that coronavirus is as infectious as a common cold and during the winter more than 1 in 10 of us have a cold. So even if we have 10M unvaccinated a million of them could catch coronavirus | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare. Haven’t you noticed that the infection rate has dropped from 60,000 per day in January to 3,000 now and the number of deaths from 1,200 per day to 30 now? The problem is that coronavirus is as infectious as a common cold and during the winter more than 1 in 10 of us have a cold. So even if we have 10M unvaccinated a million of them could catch coronavirus " Yes. People who are partially vaccinated will help. People who are fully vaccinated help much more. Restrictions help. Until enough people are *fully* vaccinated, restrictions are required to keep infections down. Without restrictions, each infected person infects 2-3 others, on average. | |||
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"Their will be a possibility of a third wave and the main concern is how it may mutate finding a way around the obstruction of the vaccine and also A.Zenica has now been confirmed as a link to blood clots so this will be knocking people on edge to receive the vaccine" Where have you read that the AZ vaccine is definitely linked to blood clots? My understanding is that blood clots are found less in vaccinated people than in the general population. | |||
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"Their will be a possibility of a third wave and the main concern is how it may mutate finding a way around the obstruction of the vaccine and also A.Zenica has now been confirmed as a link to blood clots so this will be knocking people on edge to receive the vaccine Where have you read that the AZ vaccine is definitely linked to blood clots? My understanding is that blood clots are found less in vaccinated people than in the general population." On the news BBC 2 about 10 minutes ago | |||
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"Their will be a possibility of a third wave and the main concern is how it may mutate finding a way around the obstruction of the vaccine and also A.Zenica has now been confirmed as a link to blood clots so this will be knocking people on edge to receive the vaccine Where have you read that the AZ vaccine is definitely linked to blood clots? My understanding is that blood clots are found less in vaccinated people than in the general population. On the news BBC 2 about 10 minutes ago" I don't have a television, but the BBC website is telling a very different story. (Yes I know the story is two days old) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56594189 We don't know if there's a link. Based on the German data, it's about 12 in a million. The UK figures show lower risk. But it's rare and hard to know if it's something that would have happened anyway. | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. " This is nonsense on stilts, with apologies to both nonsense and stilts. | |||
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"It was announced yesterday that parent and toddler groups with 15 adults can meet indoors from 12th April. Yet I can't invite my daughter or my mum into my house. It doesn't make sense. " I think it is because we automatically relax more with family and might go too close without realising it | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. This is nonsense on stilts, with apologies to both nonsense and stilts." | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. This is nonsense on stilts, with apologies to both nonsense and stilts." You're absolutely right the whole thing is nonsense, we need to end this now and get the country back to work. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted?" Is this the same sage and whitty who last week (if media to be believed) came out with at some point soon we should just live with it? (I paraphrase... But there was a thread on here about it too) | |||
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"As said earlier, we are part of an unplanned (ie no conspiracy) huge social and medical experiment. The behavioural scientists working in govt are having a field day practising their “nudge” techniques. The big pharma companies are using the population as a stage 4 trial on a massive scale. Govt policy (not just in UK but across most countries) is a bit like a game of kerplunk when dealing with Covid. Also agree with points made on statistics. They can be manipulated/interpreted to support all manner of arguments - especially as is so often the case when extracts are taken out of context. Covid WILL settle down into an annual cycle with deaths every year forever. The question for society and governments is “what is an acceptable number of deaths each year?” We “accept” flu related deaths of c.10k most years (with some heavier “waves” now and then). So is that the acceptable level?" I get the feeling that the population will be less tolerant of upwards of 20k deaths from flu though, when its been shown it can be avoided through the use of masks, distancing and vaccines. We've given more flu vaccines this past year than ever before. I think now that people are more aware, they will demand better. Many flu deaths are avoidable. | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. This is nonsense on stilts, with apologies to both nonsense and stilts. You're absolutely right the whole thing is nonsense, we need to end this now and get the country back to work. " Nope. What you said is nonsense. The fact that some people are gullible enough to be fooled by charlatans and crackpots does not change the reality of the pandemic. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? Is this the same sage and whitty who last week (if media to be believed) came out with at some point soon we should just live with it? (I paraphrase... But there was a thread on here about it too) " Yes. There is a point where we do have to accept a level of loss. However, I don't think we're at a point where the loss of life and strain on the healthcare service is palatable or sustainable. (And that's even discounting long Covid) | |||
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"Their will be a possibility of a third wave and the main concern is how it may mutate finding a way around the obstruction of the vaccine and also A.Zenica has now been confirmed as a link to blood clots so this will be knocking people on edge to receive the vaccine Where have you read that the AZ vaccine is definitely linked to blood clots? My understanding is that blood clots are found less in vaccinated people than in the general population. On the news BBC 2 about 10 minutes ago I don't have a television, but the BBC website is telling a very different story. (Yes I know the story is two days old) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56594189 We don't know if there's a link. Based on the German data, it's about 12 in a million. The UK figures show lower risk. But it's rare and hard to know if it's something that would have happened anyway." Information was via some medical professor from Italy was said yes it's rare for clots but only possible link | |||
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"Their will be a possibility of a third wave and the main concern is how it may mutate finding a way around the obstruction of the vaccine and also A.Zenica has now been confirmed as a link to blood clots so this will be knocking people on edge to receive the vaccine Where have you read that the AZ vaccine is definitely linked to blood clots? My understanding is that blood clots are found less in vaccinated people than in the general population. On the news BBC 2 about 10 minutes ago I don't have a television, but the BBC website is telling a very different story. (Yes I know the story is two days old) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56594189 We don't know if there's a link. Based on the German data, it's about 12 in a million. The UK figures show lower risk. But it's rare and hard to know if it's something that would have happened anyway. Information was via some medical professor from Italy was said yes it's rare for clots but only possible link" Possible link means they're looking into it. It doesn't mean confirmed link. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. reminds me what my economic stats lecturer said to me: "there are 3 types of lies, white lies, damn lies and statistics" because statistics acn be calculated to form what every opinion you want it to read and how they are told i.e. 100K vs 0.15% makes a huge difference to the psyche and fear factors. every one keep banging on about follow the science & seems to completely forget science is only accepted fact until we know otherwise which is always trying to be figured out. I.e. Eistein's laws of gravity you know the famous e=mc2 is not under scrutiny as it doesn't work universally only on large massed calculations,, it doesn't fit with quantum.....that has been used for hundreds of years as fact! black holes now suck & spit stuff out. the plague is not treatable with antiboitics science is always changing and scientists always somehow make the results seem dire. classic current one is covid having over a 99% survival but all we hear is deaths which are less than 1%, not recoveries. 66,600,000 people in this country 0.15% died, largely those over life expectancy of 80 years old and most with an underlying conditions. healthy is not being overweight which 2/3's of our country are, that was personal choice to put themselves at greater risks, they are warned consistently about the dangers (in most cases.). any yes I am omitting emotion as this is a whole world issue and many people die every day of many things, death is not new and we are all well aware that those people were something to someone as we all are, that is unavoidable. Quality of life is important. " Quality of death is important too. If you watched your mum die a tortured death that took 3 weeks of not being able to breath you may well not be as blasé about the numbers. We will all die at some point. If we can do something to stop being dying a horrible painful death, why would we not? | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ?" New variants which the vaccine doesn’t protect against. It’s all very well getting the country fully vaccinated but until the whole world is, this thing is going to keep evolving and coming back at us. | |||
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"You left out an important detail which was - the report was “preliminary” and based on “pessimistic assumptions” (aka worst case scenario, and not fully data based). Sage also have another model that predicts only 30,000 covid deaths over the next 3 years. It’s important to present the news fully. Our media doesn’t seem to do that. And neither do people who share news. There seems to always be a bias to make things seem worse than they are" | |||
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"If we can do something to stop being dying a horrible painful death, why would we not? " Sorry for your loss. | |||
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"What I'd really like to know is when they say how many deaths there have been in the last 24 hours/ week/ month etc and it states on the screen "for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test" how many ARE actually covid? " The ONS publishes "deaths due to Covid-19" for England and Wales. | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. This is nonsense on stilts, with apologies to both nonsense and stilts. You're absolutely right the whole thing is nonsense, we need to end this now and get the country back to work. Nope. What you said is nonsense. The fact that some people are gullible enough to be fooled by charlatans and crackpots does not change the reality of the pandemic." You're right again, the people actually believing the government lies and propaganda are indeed the crackpots and gullible that you mention. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. I have a passing familiarity with statistics and it seems to me that it's always abused in the public. There's a few reasons for this thoug aren't there? 1 the people (generally) working in govt and civil service roles now are not well qualified and professional as they really should be... Hence why we have a nationwide report being run on and old version of excel. As one example 2. There are several layers between us consuming the stats and what is being presented... Usually various flavours of media or gossip, and the quality of journalism and editorial responsibility have disappeared and replaced by speed, quantity and shock value. 3. "journalists" and media outlets are driving the news rather than reporting the news. 4. People are generally now unable or unwilling to read and understand anything longer than 400 characters. reminds me what my economic stats lecturer said to me: "there are 3 types of lies, white lies, damn lies and statistics" because statistics acn be calculated to form what every opinion you want it to read and how they are told i.e. 100K vs 0.15% makes a huge difference to the psyche and fear factors. every one keep banging on about follow the science & seems to completely forget science is only accepted fact until we know otherwise which is always trying to be figured out. I.e. Eistein's laws of gravity you know the famous e=mc2 is not under scrutiny as it doesn't work universally only on large massed calculations,, it doesn't fit with quantum.....that has been used for hundreds of years as fact! black holes now suck & spit stuff out. the plague is not treatable with antiboitics science is always changing and scientists always somehow make the results seem dire. classic current one is covid having over a 99% survival but all we hear is deaths which are less than 1%, not recoveries. 66,600,000 people in this country 0.15% died, largely those over life expectancy of 80 years old and most with an underlying conditions. healthy is not being overweight which 2/3's of our country are, that was personal choice to put themselves at greater risks, they are warned consistently about the dangers (in most cases.). any yes I am omitting emotion as this is a whole world issue and many people die every day of many things, death is not new and we are all well aware that those people were something to someone as we all are, that is unavoidable. Quality of life is important. Quality of death is important too. If you watched your mum die a tortured death that took 3 weeks of not being able to breath you may well not be as blasé about the numbers. We will all die at some point. If we can do something to stop being dying a horrible painful death, why would we not? " Absolutely this. Cannot imagine the suffering, both of those dying and those unable to “comfort” | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted?" I went to work yesterday, team of 11. All government officials. Every single one of them: “I had a street party” “I had my whole family around” “I went to a party” Etc etc I’m the only one who didn’t lol There’s definitely a 3rd wave of my work is anything to go by | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom." You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. " that was the message at a point in time when the analysis to confirm protection from catching it wasn’t available yet, its now looking increasingly likely that the vaccine will reduce both the chance of catching and the symptoms if you do catch | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. that was the message at a point in time when the analysis to confirm protection from catching it wasn’t available yet, its now looking increasingly likely that the vaccine will reduce both the chance of catching and the symptoms if you do catch " I wonder what has caused infections to drop from 60k a day in Jan to 3k a day last week? | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. " Maybe it’s you that has to read up..... | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? I went to work yesterday, team of 11. All government officials. Every single one of them: “I had a street party” “I had my whole family around” “I went to a party” Etc etc I’m the only one who didn’t lol There’s definitely a 3rd wave of my work is anything to go by " 11 government officials all in the same place? Wonder what the collective noun for govt officials is.? | |||
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"I would like to see the regular data broken down by those who have received the vaccine and those who have not, so when they there have been 30 deaths, how many of those had been vaccinated? Same for hospitalisations.This would give clearer indication of how well it is working. " I know of a Scottish study where they looked at that, or at least "what we predict would have happened without vaccination". These data do exist. (afraid I don't have a link to hand, I hear about a lot, haha) | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. Maybe it’s you that has to read up....." in fairness to him i dont think they have officially come out and said it definitely will yet , partly because the analysis is still ongoing and partly because it will encourage people to mix when very few have actually had 2 vaccines yet - but preliminary results are looking positive and this was always the intention, its just the symptoms was higher priority to get tested and approved to get the injections started with the transmission a happy bonus | |||
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"I would like to see the regular data broken down by those who have received the vaccine and those who have not, so when they there have been 30 deaths, how many of those had been vaccinated? Same for hospitalisations.This would give clearer indication of how well it is working. " Great point. Facts are much better than guesswork. | |||
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"It was announced yesterday that parent and toddler groups with 15 adults can meet indoors from 12th April. Yet I can't invite my daughter or my mum into my house. It doesn't make sense. " Because in those groupsthe adults will be wearing masks and socially distancing, probably also needing to test before hand. Would you be doing that with your family? | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. that was the message at a point in time when the analysis to confirm protection from catching it wasn’t available yet, its now looking increasingly likely that the vaccine will reduce both the chance of catching and the symptoms if you do catch I wonder what has caused infections to drop from 60k a day in Jan to 3k a day last week? " most likely a combination that of many things lower positive cases and lower R means doesn’t just mean less cases now it leads to less future cases too , plus the vaccine, plus the restrictions (in january we were still suffering from Xmas mixing) , warmer weather so people that were meeting up probably doing it outdoors rather than indoors and i’m sure warmer weather is less favourable for this type of virus anyway which is why we expect it to be seasonal going forward (thats surmising) anyway it definitely won’t be one thing - lots of variables laid on top of each other | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. Maybe it’s you that has to read up....." I get daily briefings in work lol What people don’t realise is that a lot of false diagnosis happened in the past. Everything was associated with COViD so that’s why the numbers were a lot higher. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? I went to work yesterday, team of 11. All government officials. Every single one of them: “I had a street party” “I had my whole family around” “I went to a party” Etc etc I’m the only one who didn’t lol There’s definitely a 3rd wave of my work is anything to go by 11 government officials all in the same place? Wonder what the collective noun for govt officials is.? " Before I worked here I’d have said “twats” haha | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. Maybe it’s you that has to read up..... in fairness to him i dont think they have officially come out and said it definitely will yet , partly because the analysis is still ongoing and partly because it will encourage people to mix when very few have actually had 2 vaccines yet - but preliminary results are looking positive and this was always the intention, its just the symptoms was higher priority to get tested and approved to get the injections started with the transmission a happy bonus " There was 2 case study‘s: Both have reported one in a small town in Brazil (45,000) and one done with NHS workers in Scotland. Yes you’re correct and saying the official facts and numbers are not out. But both said even a quick look over the data told it’s own story. | |||
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"Do they not mean... Another wave, but, with low fatality / long covid cases!? " Yes that's likely. Or hospitalisation and death in those who aren't protected by the vaccine. There's extremely preliminary indications that vaccination also helps some people with long Covid. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare. Next to nothing
Infection rates won't drop, without restrictions, until we hit herd immunity. Which is bloody ages away."On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. " couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam. How can it be a scam? The entire planet has been affected and getting on for 150,000 people in this country have died - what is scammy about that? Because some people lack the skills of critical & logical thinking that they fall prey to conspiracies. Hark back 150 years and they'd be the ones buying the magic tonics from traveling salesmen. like this magical vaccine that does next to nothing. Lowers risk of death, that is already at a tiny amount. Maybe lowers chance of passing it on but a 3rd wave is coming that will keep us locked down until the end of the year? I understand that waves may come and go, surely the infection rate should drop, with so many vaccinated and more being vaccinated daily, this seems bizzare. Next to nothing
Infection rates won't drop, without restrictions, until we hit herd immunity. Which is bloody ages away.
On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available.
in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26
I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine.
Happy to change my mind on new data."Death is not the only bad outcome. Long Covid is a serious risk, from children up. The less people spread this shit, the sooner we get our lives back. The data is coming in that vaccination = we're less likely to spread this shit. Not only to protect others, but I'm bloody sick of my house | |||
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"As said earlier, we are part of an unplanned (ie no conspiracy) huge social and medical experiment. The behavioural scientists working in govt are having a field day practising their “nudge” techniques. The big pharma companies are using the population as a stage 4 trial on a massive scale. Govt policy (not just in UK but across most countries) is a bit like a game of kerplunk when dealing with Covid. Also agree with points made on statistics. They can be manipulated/interpreted to support all manner of arguments - especially as is so often the case when extracts are taken out of context. Covid WILL settle down into an annual cycle with deaths every year forever. The question for society and governments is “what is an acceptable number of deaths each year?” We “accept” flu related deaths of c.10k most years (with some heavier “waves” now and then). So is that the acceptable level?" Oh dear, oh dear. That can't be taken seriously | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday "I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote. "It just made me wonder If the infection rate was low over the year How did so many people become infected during lockdowns and social distancing etc | |||
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"It was announced yesterday that parent and toddler groups with 15 adults can meet indoors from 12th April. Yet I can't invite my daughter or my mum into my house. It doesn't make sense. " I dont understand that either!! My family all live 3hrs plus drive away, I am desperate to see them. | |||
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"Speaking to friends in france,italy and spain the majority of their new cases appear to be the "kent" variant that has already hit the uk. It seems to be heading out into europe not from europe into us. Also those country's poor vaccination record so far is not helping the situation. " We need to watch for the Brazil and SA variants too. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday "You make a great point. One might assume they have been testing them for a while now. It would also be interesting to know if there's any difference between those who masked up and those who chose not to or were unable to. This would be useful intelligence to have. I think the last months have shown that when community infections are high... Its easy for numbers to get out of hand... And when numbers are low, it gives ability to take preventive and effective measures. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
You make a great point. One might assume they have been testing them for a while now. It would also be interesting to know if there's any difference between those who masked up and those who chose not to or were unable to. This would be useful intelligence to have.
I think the last months have shown that when community infections are high... Its easy for numbers to get out of hand... And when numbers are low, it gives ability to take preventive and effective measures. "Supermarkets are not testing workers. My brother is an assistant manager at Aldi and he's worked throughout this. They've had much higher levels of staff sickness (reasons not disclosed beyond HR) and there is no testing provided for staff at all. They have masks and screen erected at the tills and that's about it. The average age of the employees is probably mid 30s, so generally a low risk demographic. | |||
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"Speaking to friends in france,italy and spain the majority of their new cases appear to be the "kent" variant that has already hit the uk. It seems to be heading out into europe not from europe into us. Also those country's poor vaccination record so far is not helping the situation. We need to watch for the Brazil and SA variants too." The brazil and sa variant are already here but the dominant strain is the kent version. If covid follows most of natures rules the dominant strain will overpower all others and eventually wipe them out. We just need to hope that the kent variant remains the dominant one yes it is a lot more contagious but no more deadly but it also has more survivors from it and also asymptomatic cases | |||
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"Speaking to friends in france,italy and spain the majority of their new cases appear to be the "kent" variant that has already hit the uk. It seems to be heading out into europe not from europe into us. Also those country's poor vaccination record so far is not helping the situation. We need to watch for the Brazil and SA variants too. The brazil and sa variant are already here but the dominant strain is the kent version. If covid follows most of natures rules the dominant strain will overpower all others and eventually wipe them out. We just need to hope that the kent variant remains the dominant one yes it is a lot more contagious but no more deadly but it also has more survivors from it and also asymptomatic cases" I think it remains to be seen which will be dominant - and they can also combine. | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom? The longer this goes on the more I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that it's all one big scam." | |||
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"Well, at long last people are beginning to seriously ask questions as to what is really going on. From flattening the curve, cancel summer, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, have your vax to go on holiday then cancel all holidays etc... The UNELECTED Sage now saying lockdown until forseable future. Many Brits are behaving like beaten wives and still obediently follow their politicians as they are publicly humiliated by them at the same time. " So, here’s the question..what exactly is going on? What has a panel of experts in their respective fields advising an elected government being ‘unelected’ got to do with anything? | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that" I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. | |||
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"It is a scam and your so right!" What is a scam? | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. " You realise Pfizer did not invent the vaccine? BioNTech did. Pfizer are the money people with the mass production facilities to bring it to market, but the actual science was done by experts in mRNA technology at BioNTech. They've been producing mRNA based cancer treatments for a while now, but on a small scale. | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. You realise Pfizer did not invent the vaccine? BioNTech did. Pfizer are the money people with the mass production facilities to bring it to market, but the actual science was done by experts in mRNA technology at BioNTech. They've been producing mRNA based cancer treatments for a while now, but on a small scale." Pfizer are involved, i will avoid. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. " Work in that arse I’m not an analyst by any stretch but I have seen the ONS total mortality statistics from Jan 20 to Feb 21 and the death rate hasn’t grown YoY by anywhere near what is reported to be “additionally” and caused by COVID Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID Around 1% of a population will always die each year that’s fact, the true additional figure in the UK up to Jan 21 is 0.06% you don’t inoculate an entire population because 0.06% of people may have a bad outcome Just saying | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. " ok so not based on any real data then just on a prejudice against a company and a political party .., sure crack on , no talking to people when thats the background to their beliefs | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. You realise Pfizer did not invent the vaccine? BioNTech did. Pfizer are the money people with the mass production facilities to bring it to market, but the actual science was done by experts in mRNA technology at BioNTech. They've been producing mRNA based cancer treatments for a while now, but on a small scale. Pfizer are involved, i will avoid." Pfizer produce a product invented by someone else. The someone else (BioNTech) did not have the scale to be able to make vaccine at the amount required and to build that capacity would have taken too long. Pfizer provide the output but the tech is all BioNTech. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. Work in that arse I’m not an analyst by any stretch but I have seen the ONS total mortality statistics from Jan 20 to Feb 21 and the death rate hasn’t grown YoY by anywhere near what is reported to be “additionally” and caused by COVID Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID Around 1% of a population will always die each year that’s fact, the true additional figure in the UK up to Jan 21 is 0.06% you don’t inoculate an entire population because 0.06% of people may have a bad outcome Just saying " see when we ate talking about human life , percentage of total just doesn’t cut it and we both know the quantitative absolute values look much worse - for example 150k in the UK alone | |||
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"I have just read the SAGE minutes from the 31st March 2021 meeting. These do not agree with the OP post. I would google the minutes (on YouGov) and read them yourself." Surely nobody would bother to read the facts when you can get all the news you need from the third hand scaremongering view of the fab forums?? | |||
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"It is a scam and your so right! What is a scam? " Seconded...and...what IS the scam? | |||
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" Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID " The ONS figures for March estimates that "15.3%" of the population if England would test positive for Antibodies. They have a "95% confidence " that the figure is between 14.7% and 15.9% This is "VERY DIFFERENT" to 95% having antibodies. Cal | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. " This and it also helps the nhs to cope better too | |||
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"Its absolute madness. What is the point of all of this vaccination if it doesn't give us freedom. You really need to read up on this. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from catching the virus, it just eases the symptoms. This and it also helps the nhs to cope better too "It also reduces the time that your are contagious... so you won't infect as many others. | |||
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"It’s really dangerous the ways that statistics are being used. Especially when you need to actually work in statistics to really understand them. I’ve work in that arse for nearly 15 years and what I’m seeing being presented is quite worrying and I think some people are going to be in trouble when there is a pubic enquiry on this. Work in that arse I’m not an analyst by any stretch but I have seen the ONS total mortality statistics from Jan 20 to Feb 21 and the death rate hasn’t grown YoY by anywhere near what is reported to be “additionally” and caused by COVID Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID Around 1% of a population will always die each year that’s fact, the true additional figure in the UK up to Jan 21 is 0.06% you don’t inoculate an entire population because 0.06% of people may have a bad outcome Just saying " Sure you do. See rubella. | |||
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" On the entire planet the deathbrate is around 2% this includes countries where medical help is far less available. in the uk the average age of death of someone with covid (not due to) is 80.4, while the average age of death in the uk is 81.26 I am as yet unconvinced that at 42 and havong worked almost the entire past year that i should be eager to get a vaccine. Happy to change my mind on new data. couple of things on this - death is not the only outcome of covid , long covid exists too, and we haven’t had time to fully study what that even means for people yet - happy to take that blind risk? - even if the virus was only currently a risk to vulnerable or elderly, every transmission is an opportunity for mutation and young healthy people can catch it - so you might catch it and not get all that sick, but be responsible for the mutation that finds a way to bypass the vaccine and start killing younger folk - are you happy with that level of risk? nothing in life is guaranteed, but its all about risk reduction and the vaccine does that I have had no option up until now, as I am an essential worker, I feel that taking a vaccine is as much a risk as not, due to the favt i dont trust Pfizer, nor the tories that rushed it through. now we also have concern of blood clots. I will wait and see, then decide to vaccinate or not. ok so not based on any real data then just on a prejudice against a company and a political party .., sure crack on , no talking to people when thats the background to their beliefs " The data is, only short term atm granted thats all we can expect. I trust neither Pfizer nor the Tories, therefore wont be having anything they endorse put into my body. Thanks, no thanks. I may have another vaccine down the line, we will see. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote.
It just made me wonder
If the infection rate was low over the year
How did so many people become infected during lockdowns and social distancing etc "I have 2 female and 1 male friends who both work in 3 different supermarkets. All have stated that they haven't been particularly badly hit. It's a strange one. Apparently taxi drivers have been hit hardest after NHS and care staff. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote.
It just made me wonder
If the infection rate was low over the year
How did so many people become infected during lockdowns and social distancing etc
I have 2 female and 1 male friends who both work in 3 different supermarkets. All have stated that they haven't been particularly badly hit. It's a strange one.
Apparently taxi drivers have been hit hardest after NHS and care staff."Supermarket workers don't spend upwards of 15min in a tightly enclosed space, in the immediate vicinity of the same person. Taxi drivers do - a car is obviously a very small space and unless it's a short journey, 15mins plus wouldn't be unusual. | |||
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" Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID The ONS figures for March estimates that "15.3%" of the population if England would test positive for Antibodies. They have a "95% confidence " that the figure is between 14.7% and 15.9% This is "VERY DIFFERENT" to 95% having antibodies. Cal" No.womder.people get confused, if they did pay close attention. | |||
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" Furthermore the Antibody study over the same period predicts that 95% have them, meaning we’ve all had COVID The ONS figures for March estimates that "15.3%" of the population if England would test positive for Antibodies. They have a "95% confidence " that the figure is between 14.7% and 15.9% This is "VERY DIFFERENT" to 95% having antibodies. Cal" And this is what happens when people who don't fully understand statistical analysis try to interpret... Correct assessment from Cal | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote.
It just made me wonder
If the infection rate was low over the year
How did so many people become infected during lockdowns and social distancing etc
I have 2 female and 1 male friends who both work in 3 different supermarkets. All have stated that they haven't been particularly badly hit. It's a strange one.
Apparently taxi drivers have been hit hardest after NHS and care staff.
Supermarket workers don't spend upwards of 15min in a tightly enclosed space, in the immediate vicinity of the same person. Taxi drivers do - a car is obviously a very small space and unless it's a short journey, 15mins plus wouldn't be unusual. "I wasn't comparing supermarket workers with taxi drivers. I was just pointing out they have been hardest hit. | |||
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"At risk of being told I’m foolish here But here goes I was in Asda this morning waiting in the checkout queue and I had a thought. Supermarkets have been open non stop barring two days in a whole year since the lockdowns started. I was wondering seeing as the supermarket employees deal with different members of the public everyday . What is the infection rate amongst supermarket employees over the whole year. Every one has seen how social distance rules go out the window when the supermarket is busy so going on how many people are Asymptomatic did they pass it on to supermarket employees? I thought to myself the supermarkets remained open through all the rule changes so what are the statistics on just the employees becoming infected? The R rate went through the roof countrywide from January this year but the employees I just noted all seemed to be at work anytime I ventured in. Just a thought on a boring Tuesday
I think they've taken close measurements of schools and supermarkets, due to the same concerns that you have. It's not been particularly bad, as vulnerable as the staff were made to be. I hope that's still the case and have no source to quote.
It just made me wonder
If the infection rate was low over the year
How did so many people become infected during lockdowns and social distancing etc
I have 2 female and 1 male friends who both work in 3 different supermarkets. All have stated that they haven't been particularly badly hit. It's a strange one.
Apparently taxi drivers have been hit hardest after NHS and care staff.
Supermarket workers don't spend upwards of 15min in a tightly enclosed space, in the immediate vicinity of the same person. Taxi drivers do - a car is obviously a very small space and unless it's a short journey, 15mins plus wouldn't be unusual.
I wasn't comparing supermarket workers with taxi drivers. I was just pointing out they have been hardest hit."I realise, I was adding possible reasons why. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted?" Anyone else wondering why the UNELECTED Sage have employed human behaviour specialists on their board as they 'advise' the government? | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? Anyone else wondering why the UNELECTED Sage have employed human behaviour specialists on their board as they 'advise' the government? " Why do you think SAGE should be elected? On what planet is that how any of this works? | |||
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" We’ve allowed the government and their scientific advisers to have too much power and they won’t give this up without a fight. I can see us being in a sort of lockdown for the rest of our lives now, be it social distancing and masks as a bare minimum. We have a government that is so scared of being held to account over any deaths in a public inquiry that they will nanny state us now until the end of time." You do know there is a General Election scheduled for 2nd May 2024? | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? Anyone else wondering why the UNELECTED Sage have employed human behaviour specialists on their board as they 'advise' the government? Why do you think SAGE should be elected? On what planet is that how any of this works?" Vote for your favourite advisor, is this going to be first past the post? Proportional Representation? Poster still hasn’t answered my questions...standard. | |||
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"So with the latest predictions from SAGE that the 17th May and(highly unlikely) June 21st easing of restrictions will lead to a big 3rd wave possibly as bad as January, where does that leave us ? Other models are also predicting similar with SAGE adding that social distancing will stay in place for at least another year. Boris and Whitty hinted similar - is it just gonna be another short window of limited openings particularly of clubs , which may not be able to continue at all if this pans out as predicted? Anyone else wondering why the UNELECTED Sage have employed human behaviour specialists on their board as they 'advise' the government? Why do you think SAGE should be elected? On what planet is that how any of this works? Vote for your favourite advisor, is this going to be first past the post? Proportional Representation? Poster still hasn’t answered my questions...standard." Elect your experts. Vote me, I'll never close the pubs! *Facepalm* | |||
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"How could it be as bad as January when over half the country is vaccinated now ?" Exactly ???? | |||
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"Why doesn’t the government just round everyone up on the streets and have us shot and done with ! The vaccine was supposed to be the way out of this, but now it’s not ? Why bother having a policy of vaccinating the whole country if you want to still be effectively in lockdown either afterwards or this coming winter ? If the vaccine isn’t that good, what’s the point ? Personally I thought the vaccine had done its job seeing as we have less deaths a day now from Covid19 than we do car accidents. We’ve allowed the government and their scientific advisers to have too much power and they won’t give this up without a fight. I can see us being in a sort of lockdown for the rest of our lives now, be it social distancing and masks as a bare minimum. We have a government that is so scared of being held to account over any deaths in a public inquiry that they will nanny state us now until the end of time." They are trying to vaccinate as many people as they can, as fast as they can. We appear to be progressing faster than most other countries. The Vaccine IS the way out if this, but vaccines work by teaching YOUR immune system how to deal with the virus. Until the majority of the population is vaccinated, then even if you're immune you can still infect others. This is just a huge over reaction to the frustrations of the current situation. In reality, the "roadmap" is still on track. The Lockdown IS being wound down in a controlled manner that let's us see the effects of each stage before reaching the next one. The concept that the government wants to extend the situation any longer than they need too is just ludicrous... ultimately the only thing that the government really wants to do is take your money (in the form of tax) which they can only do effectively when people can get on with their lives. Cal | |||
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"Why doesn’t the government just round everyone up on the streets and have us shot and done with ! The vaccine was supposed to be the way out of this, but now it’s not ? Why bother having a policy of vaccinating the whole country if you want to still be effectively in lockdown either afterwards or this coming winter ? If the vaccine isn’t that good, what’s the point ? Personally I thought the vaccine had done its job seeing as we have less deaths a day now from Covid19 than we do car accidents. We’ve allowed the government and their scientific advisers to have too much power and they won’t give this up without a fight. I can see us being in a sort of lockdown for the rest of our lives now, be it social distancing and masks as a bare minimum. We have a government that is so scared of being held to account over any deaths in a public inquiry that they will nanny state us now until the end of time." tho i disagree with quite a bit of what you say.. i do agree that the government have been scared of being held accountable for deaths from day one whilst also scared of sinking the economy without trace d | |||
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"Its almost certain that we will have a 3ed wave. What most seem to be forgetting is that catching covid isn't really an issue, catching covid and getting so sick that you hospital treatment or could pass it on to those that could is. The vaccination program is going exceptionally well and the effectiveness is exceptionally high at between 80 and 95% which is more than you get for most vaccines so its likely that any further waves will be drastically less inpactfull." How do they know it is that effective, at stopping transmition? | |||
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"Its almost certain that we will have a 3ed wave. What most seem to be forgetting is that catching covid isn't really an issue, catching covid and getting so sick that you hospital treatment or could pass it on to those that could is. The vaccination program is going exceptionally well and the effectiveness is exceptionally high at between 80 and 95% which is more than you get for most vaccines so its likely that any further waves will be drastically less inpactfull. How do they know it is that effective, at stopping transmition?" Have a look at the vast reduction in numbers of the over eighties that have been Asymptomatic and/or needed hospital treatment it is a very good sign. | |||
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"Its almost certain that we will have a 3ed wave. What most seem to be forgetting is that catching covid isn't really an issue, catching covid and getting so sick that you hospital treatment or could pass it on to those that could is. The vaccination program is going exceptionally well and the effectiveness is exceptionally high at between 80 and 95% which is more than you get for most vaccines so its likely that any further waves will be drastically less inpactfull. How do they know it is that effective, at stopping transmition?" Data is emerging, so limited. Here's a summary of the current knowledge on the impact of the vaccines on transmission: European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. Risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from newly-infected individuals with documented previous infection or vaccination. 29 March 2021. ECDC: Stockholm, 2021. | |||
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"Its almost certain that we will have a 3ed wave. What most seem to be forgetting is that catching covid isn't really an issue, catching covid and getting so sick that you hospital treatment or could pass it on to those that could is. The vaccination program is going exceptionally well and the effectiveness is exceptionally high at between 80 and 95% which is more than you get for most vaccines so its likely that any further waves will be drastically less inpactfull. How do they know it is that effective, at stopping transmition?" Also we don't know how good it is yet at stopping transmission but what we do know is those that are vaccinated are less likely by a significant amount to get seriously sick therefore the more people that have the vaccination the less likely any 3rd wave is to have any major impact. | |||
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"Texas" what? | |||
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"From day one it’s been about protecting the NHS. Try accessing services and you will see how long you have to wait . " Urgent/emergency care has continued. Mr KC had a cancer scare in November. He saw an ENT consultant plus a range of diagnostic tests on the same day, then surgery to remove the lump from his neck within 10 days. The all-clear came by phone on Christmas Eve. My Dad (81) had emergency admission for 3 days for a GI bleed and a colonoscopy as an outpatient within the week. I had gynaecological surgery in August 2020 that I'd been waiting for since 2018. We know people undergoing cancer treatment and with long term medical needs who continued to be seen, just sometimes in different ways e.g chemo happening at a different site. | |||
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