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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run." I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ " It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way" The lockdown in Manchester in 1918 wasn't well regarded at the time (apart from in Manchester) but is retrospectively praised. | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way The lockdown in Manchester in 1918 wasn't well regarded at the time (apart from in Manchester) but is retrospectively praised." I'm not saying we shouldn't have lockdown far from it. What I do know is the data that will come through will be devasting for lockdowns and a generation educationally, emtionally will be badly effected. The cost to Mental Health horrific and so on. I work for a local authority and we are starting to see some of this data for our area and is very saddening. On the flipside without the lockdowns yes many more would likely have died of that there is no doubt. Faster, harder but shorter lockdowns may have saved many more again with less collateral damage. In my circle there are people who are ready to shout for lockdown 4 as soon as there's a wobble in the stats. It seems finally Chris Whitty accepts that leading a proper and full life is worth a certain level of deaths akin to flu seasons which makes sense to me but won't to some I know. KJ | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way The lockdown in Manchester in 1918 wasn't well regarded at the time (apart from in Manchester) but is retrospectively praised. I'm not saying we shouldn't have lockdown far from it. What I do know is the data that will come through will be devasting for lockdowns and a generation educationally, emtionally will be badly effected. The cost to Mental Health horrific and so on. I work for a local authority and we are starting to see some of this data for our area and is very saddening. On the flipside without the lockdowns yes many more would likely have died of that there is no doubt. Faster, harder but shorter lockdowns may have saved many more again with less collateral damage. In my circle there are people who are ready to shout for lockdown 4 as soon as there's a wobble in the stats. It seems finally Chris Whitty accepts that leading a proper and full life is worth a certain level of deaths akin to flu seasons which makes sense to me but won't to some I know. KJ " Very reasoned approach. As you say (and are in a position to know) consequences of lockdown can be assessed and for any new pandemics in the future the right course of action can be taken on these experiences. Obviously it will depend on the virus. An airborne one that is fatal to all ages would absolutely require lockdowns. | |||
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As they say we accept the deaths with flu numbers, but deaths with covid-19 is going to be 3/4 times higher because of the variety of complications it presents | |||
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"This has been coming for a while, Its the numbers game of people's lives, how many dead will society accept as reasonable risk, an awful thing to consider
As they say we accept the deaths with flu numbers, but deaths with covid-19 is going to be 3/4 times higher because of the variety of complications it presents "While that is true treatments are improving all the time and this will have a knock on ben6for flu treatment too so may well lead to less people dying of flu in the future. | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. " Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. " yes but those are pre vaccine levels , it is expected to reduce considerably going forward once the vaccination programme completes | |||
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"It is worth remembering that "Chris whitty" does not make decisions, he just advises the government. There have been many "statements" made by many "experts" about what the picture will be moving forward, but until the Government decides on the direction that THEY will go and manage to pass the appropriate legislation, it is all speculation. Cal" Yes. Plus any number of variables will alter the situation and what the government do. Nothing is fixed. | |||
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" Faster, harder but shorter lockdowns may have saved many more again with less collateral damage. In my circle there are people who are ready to shout for lockdown 4 as soon as there's a wobble in the stats. " i maybe have misread tone here but seems like you are criticising your peers for advocating a fast lockdown, directly after conceding faster lockdowns would probably have worked better and that really is the crux of the issue , there was no perfect solution that was going to keep the entire population happy , no matter what approach we took there would be folk saying we got it wrong a different way was better, we can’t even straighten out thoughts that dont conflict in our own minds most of the time because it really just is that complex an issue where all we could hope for was least worst | |||
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"One of Israel's medical officers was on Newsnight last night stating that Israel is now opening up. Yes they still have cases however they are not seeing severe cases. The vaccine appears to have done it's job of breaking the link between cases and hospitalisations." That's good news. This was the evidence I was looking for.  | |||
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"One of Israel's medical officers was on Newsnight last night stating that Israel is now opening up. Yes they still have cases however they are not seeing severe cases. The vaccine appears to have done it's job of breaking the link between cases and hospitalisations." That's good news. This was the evidence I was looking for. | |||
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" Faster, harder but shorter lockdowns may have saved many more again with less collateral damage. In my circle there are people who are ready to shout for lockdown 4 as soon as there's a wobble in the stats. i maybe have misread tone here but seems like you are criticising your peers for advocating a fast lockdown, directly after conceding faster lockdowns would probably have worked better and that really is the crux of the issue , there was no perfect solution that was going to keep the entire population happy , no matter what approach we took there would be folk saying we got it wrong a different way was better, we can’t even straighten out thoughts that dont conflict in our own minds most of the time because it really just is that complex an issue where all we could hope for was least worst " But critising just as you say its such a multi faceted issue. Faster yes but for me that applies when driven by the science and the figures many many times our government delayed when it was obvious what was needed. Harder lockdowns is that even possible in a western UK society?? It's a complex question. They certainly worked in other parts of the world. However many already cry that our freedoms have gone making comparisons to Nazi Europe so god knows what would happen if we had full lockdowns seen elsewhere. Its all about perspective as well I was speaking to a friend this morning who thinks the roadmap is insane and that we should stay in full lockdown until infections reach the single digits seen in places like Australia. Then again Lockdown has been incredibly good to him. Permanent contract not under threat, 40k plus a year and working reduced hours from his home that's allowed him to spent far more time with hid kids and his words " This last year has been great. I have never been able to save such money in all my life!" So as I said perspective he is dreading the work from home order to officially end completely and having to return to the normal commute and 5 full days at the office. Everybody's circumstances are different, how lockdown has effected them will shape in part their views on how the pandemic should be dealt with. For many lockdown has come at incredible personal cost. They are utterly desperate for 21st June to roll around and are hanging on by their finger tips until them. Rhisshi knows that a large part of middle England has built up huge savings wealth during this last 12 months. At my work we have seen some of the proposals from central goverment (similar to eat out to help out) that are in the planning stage to try and get that stored savings wealth injected into the economy. KJ | |||
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" However many already cry that our freedoms have gone making comparisons to Nazi Europe so god knows what would happen if we had full lockdowns seen elsewhere." We should do the same thing when people spout inane knowledge free ahistorical bullshit. Ignore them. | |||
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"I agree with him, it had to happen anyway cos as well, peoples livelihoods are at risk, which isnt good for the economy, it should be business as usual "Chris Whitty is now saying that the normal 10,000 annual deaths (previously from flu pre covid) is a reasonable price to pay for a full and normal life. Even the bad years where 25,000 died in 2018 nobody even noticed life just went on. 10,000 = just over 27 deaths every single day for year. 25,000 = just over 68 deaths every single day of the year. If we count historical flu deaths in the daily manner everyone is now familiar with due to covid. Since Covid there has been next to no flu deaths, this maybe due to lockdown measures, social distancing, been coun covid moving into that demographic its an area been looked into. Below UK daily covid death data 03/04/21 = 10 deaths 02/04/21 = 52 deaths 01/04/21 = 51 deaths 31/03/21 = 47 deaths 30/03/21 = 55 deaths 29/03/21 = 23 deaths 28/03/21 = 19 deaths Thats a 7 day average of just under 37 deaths per day average. What that says to me is the levels we are at right now, if they stay stable when we open up are the acceptable benchmark to allow for a normal and full life that Chris Whitty has been talking about. KJ | |||
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"I agree with him, it had to happen anyway cos as well, peoples livelihoods are at risk, which isnt good for the economy, it should be business as usual
Chris Whitty is now saying that the normal 10,000 annual deaths (previously from flu pre covid) is a reasonable price to pay for a full and normal life. Even the bad years where 25,000 died in 2018 nobody even noticed life just went on.
10,000 = just over 27 deaths every single day for year.
25,000 = just over 68 deaths every single day of the year.
If we count historical flu deaths in the daily manner everyone is now familiar with due to covid.
Since Covid there has been next to no flu deaths, this maybe due to lockdown measures, social distancing, been coun covid moving into that demographic its an area been looked into.
Below UK daily covid death data
03/04/21 = 10 deaths
02/04/21 = 52 deaths
01/04/21 = 51 deaths
31/03/21 = 47 deaths
30/03/21 = 55 deaths
29/03/21 = 23 deaths
28/03/21 = 19 deaths
Thats a 7 day average of just under 37 deaths per day average.
What that says to me is the levels we are at right now, if they stay stable when we open up are the acceptable benchmark to allow for a normal and full life that Chris Whitty has been talking about.
KJ
"except statistics cant be spread quite so evenly as that , flu deaths don’t happen at a rate of 27 per day they happen much closer to a rate of near zero for6 months of the year and 54 per day in the winter (averages obviously) we would currently be going into the nearer zero per day phase of the year and yet still have higher than acceptable numbers despite having significant restrictions still in place its like the way they smooth out your energy direct debit but expect you to use pretty much nothing in heating spring and summer which evens out your high level of use in the winter ... if we keep current levels stable for summer we are in for a pretty big bill come winter time | |||
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"I agree with him, it had to happen anyway cos as well, peoples livelihoods are at risk, which isnt good for the economy, it should be business as usual
Chris Whitty is now saying that the normal 10,000 annual deaths (previously from flu pre covid) is a reasonable price to pay for a full and normal life. Even the bad years where 25,000 died in 2018 nobody even noticed life just went on.
10,000 = just over 27 deaths every single day for year.
25,000 = just over 68 deaths every single day of the year.
If we count historical flu deaths in the daily manner everyone is now familiar with due to covid.
Since Covid there has been next to no flu deaths, this maybe due to lockdown measures, social distancing, been coun covid moving into that demographic its an area been looked into.
Below UK daily covid death data
03/04/21 = 10 deaths
02/04/21 = 52 deaths
01/04/21 = 51 deaths
31/03/21 = 47 deaths
30/03/21 = 55 deaths
29/03/21 = 23 deaths
28/03/21 = 19 deaths
Thats a 7 day average of just under 37 deaths per day average.
What that says to me is the levels we are at right now, if they stay stable when we open up are the acceptable benchmark to allow for a normal and full life that Chris Whitty has been talking about.
KJ
except statistics cant be spread quite so evenly as that , flu deaths don’t happen at a rate of 27 per day they happen much closer to a rate of near zero for6 months of the year and 54 per day in the winter (averages obviously)
we would currently be going into the nearer zero per day phase of the year and yet still have higher than acceptable numbers despite having significant restrictions still in place
its like the way they smooth out your energy direct debit but expect you to use pretty much nothing in heating spring and summer which evens out your high level of use in the winter ... if we keep current levels stable for summer we are in for a pretty big bill come winter time
"You make a very good point and I agree. We have to hope a fully vaccinated UK with potential boosters if needed mitigates the winter season of 2021. I think that's what the government is hoping for. "I agree that there has to, ultimately, be an acceptable cost of Covid, but, like above, think the current cost is too high." I personally agree but I believe based on what's coming out of goverment and what I am privy to in my Job that the goverment now sees an annual covid death rate of 10-20 thousand people as an acceptable range after vaccines, if it means a fully open UK. I believe the NHS in the next few years will be set up to cope with this as the normal. Pre covid parts of the NHS were under immense pressure during some of the worst flu years and whilst it was reported it wasn't really pushed as main news at the time. The goverment knows going forward we need an NHS that can cope with the equivalent of a bad flu year every year from now on. They will ensure this regardless of the cost to ensure that the wheels of commerce can continue to turn unabated in the future. KJ | |||
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"Unfortunately, I think that the financial losses of the last year will mean that all public funding (including NHS) will be greatly reduced for the foreseeable future. Cal "Agreed... I hope, I don't expect. | |||
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"Unfortunately, I think that the financial losses of the last year will mean that all public funding (including NHS) will be greatly reduced for the foreseeable future. Cal "I hope that doesn't happen. I hope much like the way they goverment gained success by heavily investing in the vaccines that they now see that the nations health, the NHS, the Economy and the ability to allow Capitalism and Growth to flourish are irretrievably interlinked and interdependent. KJ | |||
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"Unfortunately, I think that the financial losses of the last year will mean that all public funding (including NHS) will be greatly reduced for the foreseeable future. Cal
I hope that doesn't happen.
I hope much like the way they goverment gained success by heavily investing in the vaccines that they now see that the nations health, the NHS, the Economy and the ability to allow Capitalism and Growth to flourish are irretrievably interlinked and interdependent.
KJ "A grass roots rebuilding of the nation would be a good thing. But... Don't hope. | |||
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"Unfortunately, I think that the financial losses of the last year will mean that all public funding (including NHS) will be greatly reduced for the foreseeable future. Cal
I hope that doesn't happen.
I hope much like the way they goverment gained success by heavily investing in the vaccines that they now see that the nations health, the NHS, the Economy and the ability to allow Capitalism and Growth to flourish are irretrievably interlinked and interdependent.
KJ
A grass roots rebuilding of the nation would be a good thing. But... Don't hope."If only! We need to come back better than before though as an absolute minimum. KJ | |||
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" No more lockdowns – Britain will treat Covid like flu, says Chris Whitty https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/01/no-lockdowns-britain-will-treat-coronavirus-like-flu-says/ This looks like a real turning point now. The money tree is bare and now with the vaccines its time to live with it one what may. I know people who have been so damaged by the last 12 months that hiding behind the sofa would be a fair assessment. People in that position will need encouragement to get out and start living again. KJ" I really don’t know why he said that as there are too many unknowns/ variables still in play such to determine whether the country will develop herd immunity or not. I can definitely see local lockdowns happening in areas where vaccine uptake is poor. | |||
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"Unfortunately, I think that the financial losses of the last year will mean that all public funding (including NHS) will be greatly reduced for the foreseeable future. Cal
I hope that doesn't happen.
I hope much like the way they goverment gained success by heavily investing in the vaccines that they now see that the nations health, the NHS, the Economy and the ability to allow Capitalism and Growth to flourish are irretrievably interlinked and interdependent.
KJ
A grass roots rebuilding of the nation would be a good thing. But... Don't hope.
If only!
We need to come back better than before though as an absolute minimum.
KJ"Yes we need to build back better  | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way" As I see it we lost 130,00 despite lockdown but it bought time to vaccinate. Which has saved more than 130,000 others | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way" Imagine how low it might have been with a competent government | |||
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"Kinda an inevitable conclusion, there seems to be no way to eradicate covid and theres no way we can continue with a policy of Lockdown as the effects would be too damaging in the long run. I think the huge collateral damaged that lockdowns caused (as the full data pours out in the next year or 2) will be studied for generations. KJ It should also be viewed that approx 130,000 also lost their lives and that was with lockdown. Hate to think of the number of deaths without lockdown. Not sure the lockdowns during the Spanish flu outbreak are seen in a negative way Imagine how low it might have been with a competent government " Very true... And even lower if then population were community minded, unselfish and fit and healthy. | |||
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"Good. I've done everything the government have asked of me, I've followed the rules, had both jabs, worked from home while home schooling. I couldn't do another lockdown. Time to move on now. Sounds selfish right? What's selfish is all those people breaking the rules, causing us to stay in lockdown longer, which took lives. I'm personally ready to go out, live my life while been sensible and moving on " Couldn't agree more | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. " Worth remembering many died of complications already had many had covid as death due to being tested within 28 days no true figures of deaths only by covid been released | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. Worth remembering many died of complications already had many had covid as death due to being tested within 28 days no true figures of deaths only by covid been released" The ONS have more detailed figures re Covid deaths | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. Worth remembering many died of complications already had many had covid as death due to being tested within 28 days no true figures of deaths only by covid been released The ONS have more detailed figures re Covid deaths" Yeah but if anyone tested positive and died within 28 days from a pre existing condition such as heart failure cancer it still was attached to covid figures | |||
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"Sounds plausible. However, it would be interesting to see hospital admissions during a bad flu season compared to COVID. I guess the latter is far greater. Average year deaths due to flu and other respiratory disease is between 7 & 8 thousands, a really bad flu year up to 25,000 deaths recorded. Covid has 130,000 deaths in UK this year. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that Covid is responsible for the most hospital admissions.. Worth remembering many died of complications already had many had covid as death due to being tested within 28 days no true figures of deaths only by covid been released The ONS have more detailed figures re Covid deaths Yeah but if anyone tested positive and died within 28 days from a pre existing condition such as heart failure cancer it still was attached to covid figures" They have other figures, not just the 28 day figure. Where Covid is a causal factor in death, both before and after the 28 day cut off. | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it" Herd immunity includes vaccine induced immunity | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it" I would argue that if they had kept their distance they could still do their job? And if they couldn't then they should have taken their government furlough or SE support and not carried on working maybe? Had some here last week fitting loft stuff a few doors down.. Self employed getting a grant and carrying on working.. Takes the mick frankly | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it Herd immunity includes vaccine induced immunity" So how can we do tests on herd immunity until we are allowed to mix | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000" That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it I would argue that if they had kept their distance they could still do their job? And if they couldn't then they should have taken their government furlough or SE support and not carried on working maybe? Had some here last week fitting loft stuff a few doors down.. Self employed getting a grant and carrying on working.. Takes the mick frankly " Not all manufacturing jobs can be done with social distancing in place as with some construction jobs try fitting a window frame into an upstairs without someone holding it while it's screwed into place glazing goes in after As for furlough you couldn't just take it if your company was deemed safe to continue working | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it Herd immunity includes vaccine induced immunity" Herd immunity will only be achieved by vaccination. Natural infections will never get anywhere near to the level of herd immunity. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition?" Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days | |||
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"People keep mentioning herd immunity How can we achieve that if we are not allowed to mix with others Continue with the vaccinations and let's open up We never had a lockdown anyways it was all half cocked Biggest industry stayed open construction and manufacturing Many construction workers move from site to site monthly or before as they travel to where the work is Many manufacturers haven't been able to adhere to 2 metre rules due to job nature Supermarkets remained open instead of online shopping only Not really a lock down was it Herd immunity includes vaccine induced immunity So how can we do tests on herd immunity until we are allowed to mix " We don't, that's not how any of this works. Herd immunity is infectiousness of disease combined with the number of people who are able to get sick from it. So we already have a good idea, and we're not there yet. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days " It doesn't exist. It also doesn't exist for anything else. Good news everyone, cancer is cured, bulldoze the hospitals. | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities " Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days It doesn't exist. It also doesn't exist for anything else. Good news everyone, cancer is cured, bulldoze the hospitals." Yet we receive 120000 death toll from covid so if other deaths from cancer heart disease are in those figures then remove them it's simple really | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days " Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about?" Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps " You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point? | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days " And what difference is it going to make knowing this? I've said this over and over on this virus section for those willing to listen if it suits their agenda. Think of covid as a bullet. A person gets shot and later dies from multiple organ failure as a result of the catastrophic injuries caused by the bullet. Now they died from organ failure,but as a result of the bullet. Think of many of the covid deaths in the same way. Ok so when they sadly died It maybe due to pneumonia or something equally as terrible. But it's as a result of covid,it was the catalyst for the person's sad death. So whilst they may not have had covid at time of death chances are that covid was the start and ultimately the result of the death. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok?" No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days It doesn't exist. It also doesn't exist for anything else. Good news everyone, cancer is cured, bulldoze the hospitals. Yet we receive 120000 death toll from covid so if other deaths from cancer heart disease are in those figures then remove them it's simple really " No it's not. We don't always know if underlying conditions were the cause, a cause, or were not a cause. I had a relative die of a heart attack. Seized up, history of heart attacks, quite obvious really. But he also had diabetes. Should we not count that as a heart attack because it could have been diabetes? If you want clearer information, look for the ONS data on Covid as cause of death. If you want to assert that anyone with underlying conditions doesn't count - I'm sorry, we don't do things like that in civilised society. | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps " So find the UK data. I promise it exists | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point?" Simple point really let's just continue vaccination we have protected the old and vunerable so let's just open up and get on with life before we die of old age Is that a simple enough answer for you | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so " That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps So find the UK data. I promise it exists "It doesn't The 28 days data is only thing we have it's the way it was done | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so " And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point? Simple point really let's just continue vaccination we have protected the old and vunerable so let's just open up and get on with life before we die of old age Is that a simple enough answer for you" Sure is. I hope we don't live in such a fact free selfish barbaric society. "Most of the sick people have had a partial course of treatment, I don't believe the death toll is that bad, wanna go pub  my human rights" | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white." All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you." Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta " The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply" Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point? Simple point really let's just continue vaccination we have protected the old and vunerable so let's just open up and get on with life before we die of old age Is that a simple enough answer for you Sure is. I hope we don't live in such a fact free selfish barbaric society. "Most of the sick people have had a partial course of treatment, I don't believe the death toll is that bad, wanna go pub my human rights""We have had this convo many times Unlike you I've not had the benifit of being able to work from home I've had to continue to risk myself and family by working I don't drink so why would I want a pub All I'm saying is the government figures are not truthful and they have scare mongered people into believing if caught ur dead Why didn't they issue a figure saying 98% of people will survive covid The answer is its time to reopen Get the furloughed back to work stop costing the country money that we will all end up paying back at some point Get the economy back up and running so the unemployed can find new jobs Or shall we stay in lockdown doing our bit for the cause from a computer cause we can't be arsed to retrain to deliver tests or vaccinations and moan at others who are working daily with others for wanting this to end | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need" Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need" Ons only has data already mentioned As for deaths from cancer Heart disease rta suicides all these can be found try looking | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative." So you want to remain in lock down that's your choice for me and many others enough is enough lie after lie to keep us compliant | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else." If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative. So you want to remain in lock down that's your choice for me and many others enough is enough lie after lie to keep us compliant " If you want the information, it exists, you have to find it. If you want to ask unanswerable questions because you wanna party, then *shrug* | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. " Exactly. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. Exactly." Exactly covid alone 9500 Thank you op | |||
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"Waste of time commenting on yes its time to agree to end the lockdown as there's too many happy to sit at home while others continue to keep the country going How many of those bums sat at home have volunteered to retrain while on furlough to help do testing or do a 4 hour training course if they hold a first aid cert to do vaccines All this could of helped control and come out of lockdown early But its too easy to sit on ur asses get money from the government while others risk themselves for you " The vaccines are being rolled out by volunteers  it's being held up mostly by how many vaccines we have
I'm desperately sorry I'm stuck at home - yes sitting on my arse, but also working - to help reduce the spread of infection. I'm sorry the toll on my health and significant uptick in workload in my voluntary work pains you so | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. Exactly. Exactly covid alone 9500 Thank you op " So if I'm hit by a car, it's totally fine because I have an underlying health condition? Maybe I'm less of a person? The ONS has suspended analysis of Covid deaths minus underlying conditions as of January, btw. | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative. So you want to remain in lock down that's your choice for me and many others enough is enough lie after lie to keep us compliant If you want the information, it exists, you have to find it. If you want to ask unanswerable questions because you wanna party, then *shrug*" Party lol I don't drink I just want to go back to enjoying my life before I die You comment everytime saying we should remain in lockdown cause its easy for you to do nothing to help the economy or the situation and you comment you do stuff for the elderly You do it from the safety of your sofa so why have a go at people wanting normality back | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative. So you want to remain in lock down that's your choice for me and many others enough is enough lie after lie to keep us compliant If you want the information, it exists, you have to find it. If you want to ask unanswerable questions because you wanna party, then *shrug* Party lol I don't drink I just want to go back to enjoying my life before I die You comment everytime saying we should remain in lockdown cause its easy for you to do nothing to help the economy or the situation and you comment you do stuff for the elderly You do it from the safety of your sofa so why have a go at people wanting normality back" The only person your helping by not going out is yourself | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. Exactly. Exactly covid alone 9500 Thank you op " Still not quite sure what your point is....get over the number issue...are you saying...back to normal everyone, are you saying get vaccinated and get back to normal, are you saying covid isn't a thing...just say what you're thinking. | |||
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" The only person your helping by not going out is yourself " That's not actually true at all. It should be REALLY obvious to anyone with even the lowest of intelligence, "you cannot infect someone else, if you stay at home". Cal | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so And??? You're getting to hung up on the detail...doesn't really matter how it gets measured...the point is lots of folk have died needlessly because of the ineptitude of this government...that's what should be concerning you. Agree but I'm asking how many from covid alone If you can't answer it why reply Maybe you should do your research, as the conspiracy theorists say. The ONS has the answers you need Exactly...what is the point...'I need a number...an exact number otherwise its all lies..lets get back to normal if there's no number...what about manufacturing. ..what about the fuck up that's Brexit'...oops..sorry..the last bit doesn't fit the narrative. So you want to remain in lock down that's your choice for me and many others enough is enough lie after lie to keep us compliant If you want the information, it exists, you have to find it. If you want to ask unanswerable questions because you wanna party, then *shrug* Party lol I don't drink I just want to go back to enjoying my life before I die You comment everytime saying we should remain in lockdown cause its easy for you to do nothing to help the economy or the situation and you comment you do stuff for the elderly You do it from the safety of your sofa so why have a go at people wanting normality back" You know nothing about my economic contribution or lack thereof. I want the people I assist to be able to buy a pint of milk without risking death. Not all of them have been fully vaccinated yet, the vaccines don't work in everyone, they're less effective in the elderly. I'm glad you help the country. So do I. Funny old world where community work is seen as cowardly and wanting to enjoy your life is seen as noble and brave. It's certainly not any morality I ascribe to. | |||
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" The only person your helping by not going out is yourself That's not actually true at all. It should be REALLY obvious to anyone with even the lowest of intelligence, "you cannot infect someone else, if you stay at home". Cal" The narrative has been rewritten because people are bored  | |||
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"So how many deaths from covid alone not including any other underlying condition cause it ain't no where near 120000 That's impossible to distinguish. But we can distinguish "died of Covid" rather than "died with a recent diagnosis". It's also a crap question. I have an autoimmune disease. My relatives with the same autoimmune disease have lived into their 90s. If I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, is it less important because I have an underlying health condition? Not saying its not I'd just like to see true figures of covid only deaths not one's mixed in with other underlying ailments within 28 days Its a signicant number...what number would you think is ok? No number is OK 1 death is too many I'd just like a true fact of how many died of covid alone not with relation to other issues Not hardto ask for I'll give you an example My mother's neighbour has been on a heart transplant list for 18mths he was told that if a donner wasn't found soon it would be too late 6 mths ago he contracted covid and recovered at home but he died less than a month later from heart failure his death was still added to the covid stats Is that right to do so That's... not how medicine works. I had another relative who died shortly after a stroke, with pneumonia. Didn't see the death certificate. Do we discount the stroke or the pneumonia? One, middle aged, dropped dead for no apparent reason ten years after stopping heavy use of illicit substances. What's the easy Fab approved cause of death? Life and death are complicated. If you want simple answers, I'm sure a charlatan will make one up for you. If you want truth, it's not easy and never black and white. All I'm asking is the government provide covid only death data Many deaths occur within a secondary infection or cause You may have heart problems but get hit by a car ur death would go on stat as death by rta The closest you'll get is the ONS cause of death data. It'll show where Covid is considered to be a cause of death. If you want where *only* Covid causes death, then it doesn't exist. But neither do deaths from anything else. If you look at ONS the figures are broke down in various ways. One of those is deaths by pre-existing health condition (top 20) in England & Wales. In that data is 9,500 who died with covid but no pre-existing health condition. Even before covid death certificates mentioned the cause and along with an illness. Example my grandfather’s official cause of death was liver failure, however his death certificate also mentions cancer (not of the liver) and 3 other things. It is likely his death was added to the cancer column that year as ultimately without the cancer his liver wouldn’t have given up. A clear cut black & white death reason is rare if there are underlying medical conditions / illnesses. Exactly. Exactly covid alone 9500 Thank you op " That doesn’t mean the others didn’t die of covid, just maybe their bodies weren’t strong enough to deal with both conditions at the same time so covid could be the cause. | |||
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"It's a big con government web site down graded it last march . Please do your research before having any vaccine its everyone personal choice but dont take the TV's word for it. Look for yourself thanks x" I've looked into this extensively for over a year. I'm of the view that the international scientific community takes this very seriously, and that all the vaccines are far safer than the risks of the disease. I don't even own a television and I certainly don't watch one - I'm relying on public health experts. I'm currently listening to virologists talk about the use of plasma to treat Covid. I thoroughly recommend research, I agree. You'll find out a lot. I recommend you get your jabs, on the basis of my extensive research, although as you say it is a choice | |||
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"It's a big con government web site down graded it last march . Please do your research before having any vaccine its everyone personal choice but dont take the TV's word for it. Look for yourself thanks x" Oh dear a year has passed and you still don’t understand the grading system for viruses. No hope. | |||
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"It's a big con government web site down graded it last march . Please do your research before having any vaccine its everyone personal choice but dont take the TV's word for it. Look for yourself thanks x Oh dear a year has passed and you still don’t understand the grading system for viruses. No hope." He's right though. You should do your research
Just pick reliable sources ffs  | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point? Simple point really let's just continue vaccination we have protected the old and vunerable so let's just open up and get on with life before we die of old age Is that a simple enough answer for you" Sage published their unlocking from Covid document on the 18th of Feb. It proposes 4 different scenarios. They expect another 30000 to die by the end of the summer, at least. Unlocking with just the vulnerable vaccinated is not the option the government have chosen because many more will die. I would ask you to please look at it- it is a very chilling piece of information. | |||
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"Strange how Israel are the ones producing all our figures regarding vaccination stats Number one country in vaccinations even better than us Fully opened up now and only had a total of 5000 deaths in total This is from a country 10x smaller than UK with 10,000,000 people in built up cities Stats are available from most countries. Lots from the UK. What are you on about? Most of vaccine info is coming from Israel they are ones who issued it to 90% of there population first and they are the ones feeding the reports to other countries It's even been quoted on tv by mps You keep making ridiculous posts...what's your point? Simple point really let's just continue vaccination we have protected the old and vunerable so let's just open up and get on with life before we die of old age Is that a simple enough answer for you Sage published their unlocking from Covid document on the 18th of Feb. It proposes 4 different scenarios. They expect another 30000 to die by the end of the summer, at least. Unlocking with just the vulnerable vaccinated is not the option the government have chosen because many more will die. I would ask you to please look at it- it is a very chilling piece of information." 1 that would have been a worse case scenario. 2 that would have been based on data in January. | |||
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"End the furlough get everyone who still has a job back into work Continue the vaccinations and let's get back to some sort of normality before we all die of old age anyways" I will so in line with your authority and expertise. *Sits on arse* | |||
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"Well governments advice aint much better stay home unless you can't Fined for taking a holiday abroad but still allow inbound flights Don't use public transport unless u need to Real great advice all along no wonder its taken so long " Better than "open it up and let it rip" | |||
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"Well governments advice aint much better stay home unless you can't Fined for taking a holiday abroad but still allow inbound flights Don't use public transport unless u need to Real great advice all along no wonder its taken so long Better than "open it up and let it rip"" Do you realise the ammount of people vaccinated there are now our local vaccination centres are now doing people 45 and below How long do you want to hide for you only get one life hiding away ain't living its existing Perhaps all workers from all sectors including NHS carers police utility people should of all said at the beginning we are gonna stay at home why should we risk ourselves and family The virus couldn't of travelled then | |||
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"Well governments advice aint much better stay home unless you can't Fined for taking a holiday abroad but still allow inbound flights Don't use public transport unless u need to Real great advice all along no wonder its taken so long Better than "open it up and let it rip" Do you realise the ammount of people vaccinated there are now our local vaccination centres are now doing people 45 and below How long do you want to hide for you only get one life hiding away ain't living its existing Perhaps all workers from all sectors including NHS carers police utility people should of all said at the beginning we are gonna stay at home why should we risk ourselves and family The virus couldn't of travelled then " Do you realise that there are shades of grey between your imagined me wetting my bed because I might catch a sniffle, and letting it rip? Risk mitigation is a thing. We're opening up. Be patient. | |||
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"End the furlough get everyone who still has a job back into work Continue the vaccinations and let's get back to some sort of normality before we all die of old age anyways I will so in line with your authority and expertise. *Sits on arse*" Errr...so those in aviation and travel...what would you expect them to be doing if they go back now...whatabout those in retail...I suppose we could hike the prices of holidays and stuff in shops to civer the cost...you'd still be complaining. | |||
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