FabSwingers.com forum: No jab=No pub

By *aulupforit OP Man
over a year ago

Corbridge

What do peeps think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/03/21 11:08:05]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Put it in the virus forum

(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do peeps think?"

Stupid

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

At the risk of opening myself up to a dog's abuse, I have no problem with this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will piss people off but I agree....but you can't implement that rule until most have had the jab

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Another half baked idea

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will piss people off but I agree....but you can't implement that rule until most have had the jab"

What about those who can't have it? For health reasons.

Or those who have too much anxiety over putting something into their body without any knowledge of the long term side effects?

They never get to go to the pub again?

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By *acavityMan
over a year ago

Redditch

"Put it in the virus forum

(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)"

I agree with both parts

Wrong forum

And can't force people to vaccinate.

But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government will do a u turn. It is not enforceable. Given that most people who frequent pubs are between 20-40’s, there would be no point pubs re opening if there was an attempt to implement this. Stupid idea.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

You would have to wait until everyone down to 18 to be offered the jab before you could do anything like that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put it in the virus forum

(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)

I agree with both parts

Wrong forum

And can't force people to vaccinate.

But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right."

Beer isn't. But is being able to socialise with your friends? Would there be pubs for the "unvaccinated"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

going the way of a social class divide between the 'haves' and 'have nots', with opportunities afforded to those who have a jab with no understanding of potential long-term side-affects, versus less oppertunities given to those without the jab.

you can only do X Y Z if you've had a jab. You have to sit over there if you haven't had a jab. People with a jab can go to the shops whenever, people without a jab have to go at this time.

To be clear, i am not for or against either standpoint.

But it's the way it's going.

Regardless of whether you do or do not want a jab, to participate in normal life, it'll be something forced upon us 'it isn't enforced but strongly recommend' - the wording that'll be used to pressure you into doing something, regardless of your opinions.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The government will do a u turn. It is not enforceable. Given that most people who frequent pubs are between 20-40’s, there would be no point pubs re opening if there was an attempt to implement this. Stupid idea."

This.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

This."

Why would the government need too do a U turn on something that isn’t government policy.

Boris was asked a question about vac passports and answered that as far as pubs were concerned it would be up to landlords who they let in their pubs.

Pretty much like it always has been.

Or has there been an announcement since that I missed. If so disregard the above.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The government seem to be "offering" the private sector the "opportunity" to enforce public policy goals.

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By *gent CoulsonMan
over a year ago

Secret hideaway in the pennines

I run a pub, and I can't logistically see how it can be enforced, it isn't a legal requirement to have the jab, as yet it isn't a legal requirement to carry your card saying you have had it.

Furthermore,like the mask issue, I can not legally demand to see an exemption from a person not wearing one, as it falls under various legal acts of discrimination, equality and diversity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dunno. Can there be dirty pubs for all the poor souls yet to be jabbed but still gasping for a pint and a pork pie. I sense a division coming on

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By *ackandtheunicornCouple
over a year ago

liverpool

Government should be making it illegal to ask about your medical history never mind encouraging people to ask private information

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By *uliaChrisCouple
over a year ago

westerham

"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ? "

I'm not gonna express a pro or anti view but listening to a lot of comment from pub workers etc this morning there's no practical way this is going to happen, not worth worrying about.

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

The Vaccinators Arms?

The Syringe & Swab?

The Superspreaders Rest?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Are people going to avoid unvaccinated family members when the rule of six or two households mixing comes in? I will be seeing our son and daughter without any concerns.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are people who can't have the vaccine we cant discriminate against them...once the majority of the adult population has been vaccinated then there should be no need for passports..if they restrict or isolate people entering the UK same for people leaving and returning then there should be no need for covid passports in the UK but need to control the international travel situation more than passports at bars etc..

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By *EXY_PILOTMan
over a year ago

Manchester, North West, UK

"What do peeps think?"

Don't go to pubs or clubs but it's reassuring to know I've had my 1st jab and second one is coming up in a few days! Doing my bit to help the spread

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

This.

Why would the government need too do a U turn on something that isn’t government policy.

Boris was asked a question about vac passports and answered that as far as pubs were concerned it would be up to landlords who they let in their pubs.

Pretty much like it always has been.

Or has there been an announcement since that I missed. If so disregard the above. "

Someone understands.

Some in the hospitality sector are for it, many are against it.

And I'm sure that the hospitality sector isn't going to cut off the majority of the under 40s!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

[Removed by poster at 25/03/21 12:32:00]

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. "

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

Theirs the option to take the test as well if negative you can still go in so it's not being biased

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic"

Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think if there was a group of people refusing to get the vaccine... and scientific facts didn't convince them... the inability to get pissed up and lay in the road with their mates might persuade them.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

A lot is being made of relatively little coming from our government at the moment. I'm guilty of it too.

There would be a lot to iron out before anything happens.

(Would I avoid unvaccinated family members? Yes)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic

Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant!

I'm not sure he was tbh

He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord.

So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Yet another "Boris" lets put it out there to see how it flies and get my m8's in the rabid press to ...meanwhile whilst you plebs are looking over there ..i'm over here ..but stupid idea ....but then so is most on of our Dear leaders ideas are ...

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"What do peeps think?"

I can just see all those over 70 year olds rushing to the pub, as they will be the only ones with 2 jabs.... Not 2 jags... That was yesterday's thread.

It's a good idea in theory. In practise never ever gonna work. We don't have the right demographic vaccinated. We don't behave as a society when we are prohibited from doing anything, we don't enforce anything, and we don't have a system that could operate it accurately. Not forgetting overseas tourists, visitors, travellers, the undocumented..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic

Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant!

I'm not sure he was tbh

He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord.

So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub."

The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion.

The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh?

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

Don't overcomplicate things, leave it up to individual landlords.

Their pub, their rules.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic

Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant!

I'm not sure he was tbh

He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord.

So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub.

The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion.

The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh? "

But what do you expect them to do?

That's exactly what he is saying?

It seems to be one of those test the water type of situations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are people going to avoid unvaccinated family members when the rule of six or two households mixing comes in? I will be seeing our son and daughter without any concerns. "

Because others are having the jab so you can see your family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the papers said that Boris said that lockdown would continue for the next 30 years and everyone would get a free Easter egg as compensation, people would believe it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This will never happen. Vaccine passports is an old crazy tin hatted nutjob conspriracy theory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hmm, no overly d*unk and noisy 20 somethings in the pub. Yes, I think I could get behind that.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Hmm, no overly d*unk and noisy 20 somethings in the pub. Yes, I think I could get behind that. "

I appreciate its tongue in cheek. But let's not lose sight of the fact that generation are the ones who we will be asking to pay our pensions and look after us. That's the same generation who have been taken through brexit (no need to debate remain or leave), have had uni educations fucked up, have been locked down to save the elderly even though they are at very little risk themselves. Give em a break. If I was then I'd have my own pub and keep all the old fuckers like me out of it.

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

Yeah I’m fine with it.

A vaccine is a choice and so is going to the pub.

Think it should be left to individual businesses to decide how they want to run.

I’m sure when somewhere starts it others might copy

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Hmm, no overly d*unk and noisy 20 somethings in the pub. Yes, I think I could get behind that.

We have all made sacrifices for the greater good.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

Way im reading it it boris is leaving it up to landlords if they put it in place and it starts hitting there profits when they open then i cant see it being kept

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Put it in the virus forum

(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)

I agree with both parts

Wrong forum

And can't force people to vaccinate.

But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right."

It is in bavaria

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley

extortion and bribery,

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I dunno. Can there be dirty pubs for all the poor souls yet to be jabbed but still gasping for a pint and a pork pie. I sense a division coming on

I think the division on this is that we are debating something that is hypothetical and nowhere near a policy and is a question posed by the op who with all due respect does not male policy . Rather like discussing should the sped limit on a motorway be dropped to 50mph...never gonna happen but good debate.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Don't overcomplicate things, leave it up to individual landlords.

Their pub, their rules."

Is that not what the pm replied?

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By *infullyNaughtyMan
over a year ago

Stanwell

I don't care if people throw abuse my way, but until the pandemic clears up even more, and we are in a safe spot, this should be a regular thing for places of social gatherings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do peeps think?"

I’d rather see those on benefits excluded from pubs and only those who have to fund them via the tax system allowed in. There’s a lot whinging about not being able to afford food for themselves or their kids but not cutting out non essential spending.

How’s that for a controversial statement

Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do peeps think?

How’s that for a controversial statement

Lol"

wow.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

And as someone has pointed out if and it's a very big if this happens will hit the younger generation and future paying customers hard ??? so seeing we are ruled by the "Money" and driven by "Profit" this won't ever happen even if it was a good idea !! and we'll be avoiding the pubs anyway as we do live in the so called heart of Plymlands nightlife ( or what's left of it) and so will quite happily watch the mayhem/chaos through the safety of our windows ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pubs will struggle no matter I've had mine and certainly want be going out and if I did I wouldn't have a passport

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

"I don't care if people throw abuse my way, but until the pandemic clears up even more, and we are in a safe spot, this should be a regular thing for places of social gatherings. "
What the safe spot ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put it in the virus forum

(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)"
oh yess well done i am in full agreement as we suposed to live in a free counrty if they do it every one should boycot pubs

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford

Great idea in principle. However, I would change the rule a little bit. I would make it.. No proof of Covid positive..

So.. Testing results. Given a lot of people currently get tested twice a week its going to be fairly easy to have those results on an app? Kind of like another version of test and trace app? Could even modify it to work in a different way?

Something maybe you can show or scan to get into the pub..

Double vaccination is great but we still need proof someone is Covid free.. And everyone can get tested quickly each week so there's no delay.

Each week everyone needs to update their test results and if you fail you go self isolation..no pub, holiday, flights,work, cinema etc

That way it will work.. And most of us can get back to Living a little bit like we used to

Only people who would struggle would be those refusing to be tested.. And I can't see any justification for that at all.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Great idea in principle. However, I would change the rule a little bit. I would make it.. No proof of Covid positive..

Something maybe you can show or scan to get into the pub..

Double vaccination is great but we still need proof someone is Covid free.. And everyone can get tested quickly each week so there's no delay.

Each week everyone needs to update their test results and if you fail you go self isolation..no pub, holiday, flights,work, cinema etc

That way it will work.. And most of us can get back to Living a little bit like we used to

Only people who would struggle would be those refusing to be tested.. And I can't see any justification for that at all.

Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris "

"I rely on societal infrastructure to keep me safe, but I refuse to participate in it. If you suggest I should help then you're Satan himself."

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 25/03/21 13:59:22]

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated.

I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable.

My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable.

Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated.

I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable.

My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable.

Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one"

I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated.

I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable.

My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable.

Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one

I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised"

Oh fuck... We don't have a good track record of that do we! Still I know a company that can....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone thought this would happen with flying and it turns out even the vaccinated can't fly yet so I'll wait til there is more information.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated.

I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable.

My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable.

Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one

I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised

Oh fuck... We don't have a good track record of that do we! Still I know a company that can.... "

Lol

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By *ltcouple941Couple
over a year ago

Hell

Not a chance.

The pubs have been struggling and largely neglected financially over the past year, most of them are barely managing to stay afloat.

They certainly won’t be turning customers away.

Do you have money? Come on in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you wish to go to certain countries you HAVE to be vaccinated against things such as Yellow Fever or Malaria etc.

There is already a precedent. So easy to see where this is coming from.

Pubs?? Difficult to see how it could be done/enforced without massive problems.

Presumably genuine medical exemptions would have to be allowed (like mask exemptions in shops). Those who refuse because of Bill Gates chips or other spurious reasons....that's a different thing. Their choice...but choices have consequences.

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford

"Great idea in principle. However, I would change the rule a little bit. I would make it.. No proof of Covid positive..

Something maybe you can show or scan to get into the pub..

Double vaccination is great but we still need proof someone is Covid free.. And everyone can get tested quickly each week so there's no delay.

Each week everyone needs to update their test results and if you fail you go self isolation..no pub, holiday, flights,work, cinema etc

That way it will work.. And most of us can get back to Living a little bit like we used to

Only people who would struggle would be those refusing to be tested.. And I can't see any justification for that at all.

Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris "

Try reading the comment.. Before making silly noises.. Though to be fair those Re the noises Boris makes.. So you are at least right on one thing!

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By *armandwet50Couple
over a year ago

Far far away

"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ? "

They'll use the chip that's in the vaccine to monitor people

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By *ickychef1Man
over a year ago

Greenford

I'm a head chef in a pub if I dont hve both jabs before may17th I'm out of work

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford

"Not a chance.

The pubs have been struggling and largely neglected financially over the past year, most of them are barely managing to stay afloat.

They certainly won’t be turning customers away.

Do you have money? Come on in."

Actually I think you will be surprised

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Not a chance.

The pubs have been struggling and largely neglected financially over the past year, most of them are barely managing to stay afloat.

They certainly won’t be turning customers away.

Do you have money? Come on in.

Actually I think you will be surprised "

It'll depend on public opinion, insurer demands, and a number of other things.

I think it is doable in theory.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Listen you can hear "Serco" rubbing their grubby mitts in glee !!.....

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By *ebsandkevCouple
over a year ago

Crowborough

Never going to happen more scaremongering by the news channels

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

Is it down to the pub landlord/lady/owners?

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ?

They'll use the chip that's in the vaccine to monitor people

If you hear a beep as you walk through suspicious looking barriers you'll know you're chip is activated.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

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By *achel SmythTV/TS
over a year ago

Farnborough

I support this fully.

If a move like this ‘encourages’ those who didn’t want to be vaccinated to do so, then bring it on! As others have alluded to, not sure how this will be managed or policed, but hope something comes of it. I am sure if it does become a rule ... many will quickly change their minds!!

They said you couldn’t enforce masks in supermarkets and heard all of the protests about choice etc .... but sooo very rarely now do I see someone without a mask - it worked!

I for one would be more likely to visit a pub that has such measures in places and would feel safer doing so, so am sure I’m not alone in that, so no doubt some pubs will make that commercial choice in view of that to protect their staff and customers.

R xx

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I imagine it would be up to the individual venues like has been mentioned many times, I also think that potentially it is just being put out there to encourage those who are feeling resistant at the moment to get a vaccination to go ahead and get it.

A dangling carrot kind of thing.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

If a landlord or business owner chooses to do this, as it is all hypothetical at the moment, it is not likely to be until the adult population has been offered the vaccine.

If they do it from May, and only going to allow the 50+, vulnerable and health workers in, they will be turning away a lot of business that essentially will help them get back on their feet and see their business survive.

Will they want both vaccines to have happened before entry is allowed, then they are looking at June before even the first group has received that.

They’ve got some tough choices to make.

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By *weedeldumbCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Leeds & Harrogate

"What do peeps think?"

I think people are missing one vital piece of information. One that the MD of Shepherd Neame Brewery just highlighted in Radio 4

No Punters = No Profit

As he says they want as many bums on seats as possible. Turning away customers after 12 months of impeded trade is the LAST thing the trade wants.

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 25/03/21 15:01:21]

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not."

It won’t just be pubs though, it will spread through all aspects of life, you don’t need to be a drinker for this to affect you or your family time.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not."

The division exists.

Why not protect those who aren't protected by the jab, rather than excluding them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not."

People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it.

So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening.

Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I don’t care. I had my jab. Nice to see the tables turn on all the conspiracy theorists. They’ve enjoyed their winter of parties and not following rules. Now they can enjoy their summer of not being allowed in pubs.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Never going to happen more scaremongering by the news channels "

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? "

Nope. We have a world where we look to models of vaccine mandates that have existed for decades, and offer an exemption for those who cannot be vaccinated and get a sign off from the NHS.

We only exclude those who donwanna

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People need to remember that pubs aren’t a right. It’s not forcing someone to get the injection. If you don’t want to be vaccinated you can choose not to go to pubs until things settle down.

Also I bet they’ll let unvaccinated people sit outside.

In terms of implementation it’s really easy - there is a vaccine database. All the pub would have to do is scan a live animated QR code on a customers phone on entry and it would verify if they have or haven’t had the jab. It can’t be faked either.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? "
the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

*the amount of ppl would be tiny*

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare. "

Lol.

Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else

Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out

Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.

Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods.

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By *isty24Woman
over a year ago

Leicester

[Removed by poster at 25/03/21 15:17:32]

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By *isty24Woman
over a year ago

Leicester

I agree with you there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it.

Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point. "

The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I think it's a ridonkulous idea. My 19 year old son and his mates probably won't be able to go out for the rest of the year!

I haven't read the whole thread but have any public and commented on how they feel?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"I think it's a ridonkulous idea. My 19 year old son and his mates probably won't be able to go out for the rest of the year!

I haven't read the whole thread but have any public and commented on how they feel?"

Agree, as said earlier unless this isn’t bought in until after every adult has been offered it, too much of society is excluded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vaccine apartheid

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Vaccine apartheid

Refusing a vaccine is definitely a thing you can't change

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

"I think it's a ridonkulous idea. My 19 year old son and his mates probably won't be able to go out for the rest of the year!

I haven't read the whole thread but have any public and commented on how they feel?"

*publicans*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point.

The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps

I've been watching this very carefully. The manufacturers say they 'hope' it will reduce transmission but there hasn't been any conclusive evidence. Given that the vaccine is designed to work the way it does I'm not holding my breath. The official briefings have not confirmed anything. If anything the opposite.

Hey if it turns out it does then great!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point.

The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps

Hey if it turns out it does then great! "

The studies are ongoing but promising so far. It's also important to note that most of the "regular" vaccines were never tested for transmission, just symptom reduction. And yet here we aren't, with the measles outbreaks. Who knew

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.

Lol.

Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else

Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out

Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.

Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods."
Can you guarantee you won’t hurt anyone when you drive your car ? Abolish cars , can you guarantee 100 per cent safety on planes ? The list goes on and on

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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago

lytham st.annes

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.

Lol.

Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else

Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out

Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.

Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods. Can you guarantee you won’t hurt anyone when you drive your car ? Abolish cars , can you guarantee 100 per cent safety on planes ? The list goes on and on "

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By *udistcpl1Couple
over a year ago

Wirral

I think it is purely a 'lets see what happens' type of idea that has been thrown out by the government. However, there will be quite a few people who will be encouraged to step forward and have the jab because of talks about possible restrictions.

I am amazed at how thick some of the general public are though because this is about as stupid as most of the reasons for not taking the jab.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.

Lol.

Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else

Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out

Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.

I don't drive, so yeah I can

But if we demand vaccines are 115% safe, we should demand it of everything. Holidays, alcohol...

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? "
No. I wouldnt miss it as such, as I dont drink, but yes they would need to be very clear about it, cos some are exempt from it and would want to go.

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card.

So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less.

Vaccine cards would probably be around for a short amount of time, compared to cash so wouldn't be worth the investment in chip cards and reader, unless national ID cards issued with medical and vaccine records built in.

Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The vaccine thing for pubs won’t be on a piece of card. It’ll be digital.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card.

So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less.

Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all. "

It's funny you think that the cards in place would be used for this sort of thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand."

That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost

I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer

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By *atandasmileMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I know we're talking about pubs here but I don't think there's anything to be overly concerned about.

Perhaps there has been a new announcement since then but the one I saw was *not* about any kind of law or even policy against unvaccinated people going to a pub. Rather, it was about whether individual pubs should or should not be able to use the fact that you are unvaccinated as a reason to refuse you entry. The government (or maybe just Boris? Can't remember) was saying that the pub should be able to use that as a reason to refuse entry if they want to. I guess some others must be saying that they shouldn't.

Of course most pubs are going to want to let you in, even if they have the right to refuse, for the business reasons stated in posts above. But there may be some who decide on a vaccinated only policy: maybe because they see a market for customers who want that assurance.

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By *andAukCouple
over a year ago

leeds

Not too fussed about pubs and the likes.

More concerning is that all the places that insist on you been vaccinated. At the minute they will be full of people who are deemed more vulnerable, who should be taking more caution to avoid catching it in the first place

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By *uminsiderMKMan
over a year ago

St Austell

It won't happen, because it'll be unenforceable.

If it were to be introduced for pubs and bars, it would also have to apply to restaurants, social clubs, and any venue where gatherings take place - such as wedding receptions, christening parties, wakes...

....and what pub landlord, restaurant owner, hotel manager, etc. will turn away trade because someone in a party of however many doesn't have proof of having had the vaccine?

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not.

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point. "
I suggest maybe watch some media regarding the covid figures to date , just for a snippet 63 reported deaths in last 28 days , not so long ago it was reporting going towards 2000 a day , hope this helps

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

That's in a 24 HR period btw before some arse jumps on it

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

With regard to testing & results, work asks employees to test twice a week, you register with NHS & post results, there thus exists an official record of recent tests & results, no need for crony involvement, Serco etc.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"With regard to testing & results, work asks employees to test twice a week, you register with NHS & post results, there thus exists an official record of recent tests & results, no need for crony involvement, Serco etc."

Yup. And I don't think "this could be an opportunity for a grubby organisation" is a reason why it wouldn't work anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think chairman Boris was just talking off the cuff once more. I interpreted his comment as him suggesting that the government would not enforce such a rule but landlords could do so if they chose to do so. What I am certain of is that the standard of questions posed by the media during covid has verged on the side of puerile and inane at times. Politicians are a desperate bunch at the best of times but sometimes they should just defer answering a question and reply officially at a later point having given due consideration.

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By *issToniLeicsTV/TS
over a year ago

Leicester

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If it gives pubs the potential for getting more customers in and more revenue, it should be their choice.

They could perhaps have separate areas for those who haven't had the jab.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I think chairman Boris was just talking off the cuff once more. I interpreted his comment as him suggesting that the government would not enforce such a rule but landlords could do so if they chose to do so. What I am certain of is that the standard of questions posed by the media during covid has verged on the side of puerile and inane at times. Politicians are a desperate bunch at the best of times but sometimes they should just defer answering a question and reply officially at a later point having given due consideration."

I think they need to take a bit of responsibility for the things they stir up. Some of which are quite dangerous.

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By *ngel696969Woman
over a year ago

Farnworth

"If it gives pubs the potential for getting more customers in and more revenue, it should be their choice.

They could perhaps have separate areas for those who haven't had the jab. "

Why all the fuss? If you want to have the jab and go to the pub, why not and if there are people who haven't had the vaccine, why worry because you have

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By *LIRTWITHUSCouple
over a year ago

Chester

"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand.

That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost

I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer

Lots of one armed people

yikes

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand.

That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost

I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer

You mean exactly like a mobile phone that everyone carries with them at all times already?

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

One slight problem and it's this Half the adult population are over 50 and are getting the jab now. The rest are the 18-49 year olds, who are waiting for their call to get the jab.

In a word, who-the-hell-is-going-to-serve-you? Pub staff are generally young.

Student union bars would never open....Flawed idea Boris!

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By *d6869Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen

"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points:

Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice.

Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that.

However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above.

We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed.

I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic

Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant!

I'm not sure he was tbh

He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord.

So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub.

The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion.

The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh? "

The pressitutes will run wild on this as they do with any half story

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"This will never happen. Vaccine passports is an old crazy tin hatted nutjob conspriracy theory."

Probably multi-use, including by thousands of organisations around the world, including for travel. It's those against progress who are spinning the conspiracies, as you emphasise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do peeps think?"

Opportunity to make money selling fake passports on ebay, amazon

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

"
What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will piss people off but I agree....but you can't implement that rule until most have had the jab

What about those who can't have it? For health reasons.

Or those who have too much anxiety over putting something into their body without any knowledge of the long term side effects?

They never get to go to the pub again?

Based on reactions by the majority of people towards anybody who is dubious about the vaccines for whatever their reason may be, they will just have to live with being slandered and ridiculed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it’s a really bad idea.

We’re either “guided by the science” or not - if the data shows it’s safe in a covid secure environment then that should be good enough.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 "

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. "

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse?

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse?"
The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 "

I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative.

And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative.

And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that."
Thanks for your wise words feel so informed now

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative.

And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that. Thanks for your wise words feel so informed now "

I hope it makes a difference. We don't want to be spreading nonsense, do we?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. "
Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ? "

A lot of the numbers floating around are complete made up bullcrap. Or were accurate 12 months ago but no longer valid as the situation has changed significantly. Or they are deliberately twisted or vague to help support someone's argument... Which pretty much distills into 2 camps.... One that wants to unlock everything and take their chances and the others who want to stay isolating until the infections are lower and vaccinations are higher.

I have never seen (and have looked hard) numbers as you suggest that say if you're male and white and under 60...youre chances of being infected are.... Xxxx if you're black female under 40 your chances of being infected are.. Yyy. Would be helpful to have these to help people choose what risks they want to take.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60

Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means.

Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1.

Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ?

"
There has been figures broken down by age but lately they are not easily found, but would suggest the risk now of dying of Covid if under 60 is very low with the vaccine now been given to so many , unless others know that’s not true ? We can only base our uniformed opinions by what we are told or lately what we are not told

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Our World in Data suggests that if you're over 19, your risk of death (assuming no other problems exist, which is insane) is above 0.1%.

Over the course of the pandemic, the case fatality rate in the UK has been as high as 14% and is currently over 2%.

Again this is excluding long term health effects, disability which may also threaten the NHS's ability to cope and take people out of the workforce.

Sounds like the statistics quoted above are pish

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By *iveralandssklpMan
over a year ago

Turkey

I seem to rember the same argument when smoking in pubs was banned. The number of people that said they would never go to a pub again if smoking was banned and saying it was unenforceable.

Yes they still go to pubs. And the "I don't want to put poisons in my body brigade" I just wonder how many of them smoke and don't see that as putting poison into their bodies.

Too many people are influenced by media hype and Facebook Physicians.

Nobody likes having vaccinations but we are living in a very strange and extraordinary situation, where selfishness and "sheep following" is not going to help us all get out of this horrible situation.

Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases.

Are these same people against taking antibiotics when they have infections? Enough said!

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

"Our World in Data suggests that if you're over 19, your risk of death (assuming no other problems exist, which is insane) is above 0.1%.

Over the course of the pandemic, the case fatality rate in the UK has been as high as 14% and is currently over 2%.

Again this is excluding long term health effects, disability which may also threaten the NHS's ability to cope and take people out of the workforce.

Sounds like the statistics quoted above are pish"
And your source for your figures ?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Our World in Data suggests that if you're over 19, your risk of death (assuming no other problems exist, which is insane) is above 0.1%.

Over the course of the pandemic, the case fatality rate in the UK has been as high as 14% and is currently over 2%.

Again this is excluding long term health effects, disability which may also threaten the NHS's ability to cope and take people out of the workforce.

Sounds like the statistics quoted above are pish And your source for your figures ? "

Our World in Data.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that."
Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that. Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures "

The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people.

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people."
We are only as good as the figures we read, but it’s well know and sure you agree that the average age of death of Covid is 82.4 and the average life expectancy is 81 , now that does suggest that the older population are most at risk but now most have been vaccinated and supposedly the vaccine cuts you risk of dying by 90per cent what risk is there to people ? Negligible we would suggest

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people. We are only as good as the figures we read, but it’s well know and sure you agree that the average age of death of Covid is 82.4 and the average life expectancy is 81 , now that does suggest that the older population are most at risk but now most have been vaccinated and supposedly the vaccine cuts you risk of dying by 90per cent what risk is there to people ? Negligible we would suggest "

The ONS suggests your average age of death is accurate.

However, given that death is not the only bad outcome, I'd have to disagree. Long Covid is documented in all age groups, including children. Some people a year on suffer significant cognitive deficits and even things like being unable to climb a flight of stairs without a break.

So the risk is substantial.

Given how often you post about the looming economic catastrophe once furlough ends, we'd better not compound it by adding a significant disability toll to the mix. I'm sure you'll agree. We both just care about the best thing for this country and the health of the people, after all

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By *uminsiderMKMan
over a year ago

St Austell

"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases."

Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hey

Consider this

Firstly if a pub ( or let's face it anywhere such as a cinema, theatre, or concert etc ) asks at the door for evidence of vaccination then using the NHS app on your phone and a QR code should do the job

To use the NHS app you have to have your face scanned and download a copy of your passports first page - I'm sure the govt could add xtra layers of security too it as well

It shouldn't be compulsory for venues to ask for this but you may want to make your own choice about venturing in if they do not esp if it turns out that the vaccine can prevent transmission

Also bear in mind that the person next to you may have a nasty new variant

It comes down ultimately to your own calculations of risk, sadly I can see us back in lockdown in October because of relaxed restrictions on large gatherings indoors and the spread of vaccine resistant strains helped by this

I believe we have to face what for some people may be an unpalatable truth - the old way of living has gone and despite attempts to revive it - its as dead as buddy holly

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases.

Polio is approaching eradication.

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By *iveralandssklpMan
over a year ago

Turkey

"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases.

Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully

eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere..."

I rest my case. Where vaccinations take place diseases are eradicated.

Hence western world clear

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases.

Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully

eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere...

I rest my case. Where vaccinations take place diseases are eradicated.

Hence western world clear "

Vaccines are one of the greatest inventions in history, I think

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By *ossdinCouple
over a year ago

CROYDON/GATWICK/BEXHILL

"Government should be making it illegal to ask about your medical history never mind encouraging people to ask private information "

Agree totally

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

Okay, the deal is this:

1. Covid-19 is very very contagious to unvaccinated people. If you are not vaccinated and you spend any amount of time in close proximity with someone who is actively infected with covid and in the virus shedding phase, then there is a very high likelihood of you catching it. This applies across ALL age groups as far as we can tell. The proof of this is that the initial infection of one person, probably in China, spread exponentially with a doubling period of three to four days and very quickly infected every country.

2. Without using vaccination, the only way to slow the exponential spread of covid is to enforce quite draconian infection control measures - masking, hand cleaning, social distancing, disinfection of surfaces, lock downs. We have seen that even these infection control measures are unable to reduce infection numbers to zero, merely to cut the rate, and as soon as the control measures are weakened the growth resumes on the exponential pattern again.

3. The illness caused by covid in unvaccinated people varies considerably with strong correlation to age and underlying conditions. Depending on availability of medical treatment, the death rate across full population caused by the CURRENT strains of covid appears to be anything from 0.1% up to 15%. At present with treatments available in the UK, the death rate appears to be averaging about 2%. The majority of those dying are older people, but not all. There is also a considerably higher rate of serious long term illness and disability occurring in younger people. [Does anyone have any decent figures for this? The government/media seem to say very little on this topic, possibly because while 130,000 dead is damning, having ten or twenty or more times this with long term disability would be utterly crucifying for them].

4. Unvaccinated people suffering from covid have very high likelihood of shedding high levels of the virus into the atmosphere, apparently even if not showing serious symptoms themselves. This all contributes to the very high infection rate unless draconian infection control procedures are enforced.

All the above is very bad already, although the correlation of serious illness/death with age and underlying conditions has led to large number of younger/fitter members of the population appearing to not give a toss, and being quite happy to let the pandemic continue because they feel they personally are in little danger. However:

5. The raw mutation rate of the coronavirus family of viruses is low, which under normal conditions would mean that new strains would be very slow to emerge. But across the globe there have been over a hundred million confirmed cases of covid, probably many more unconfirmed or with low symptomology. Every single one of these cases gives a chance for viral mutation to occur. Low mutation rate multiplied by high number of cases = high rate of new strains emerging. This is very serious, because sooner or later there is almost certain to be strains evolving that are any of (a) more deadly to younger people, (b) resistant to the current treatments, (c) more infectious, (d) resistant to the current vaccines. Point (d) is especially bad because although we are told that the vaccines can be tweaked for new strains, there is a danger that strains may emerge faster than the vaccines can be caught up, and the world will be perpetually on the covid treadmill until some really bad strain emerges and kills huge numbers of the population. NOTE: There has probably never been any virus before that has been simultaneously infecting such a high number of people, since the advent of high speed global movement. Things like the black death and the spanish flu killed millions, but global movement was considerably slower, so that while variants would emerge, those variants would largely remain regional. With covid we see every new variant having global reach within only days.

But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated:

6. Vaccinated people are much less likely to die or have serious illness. This is good news to older people and those with underlying conditions. By itself this appears to be less vital for younger people [ref. "There's bugger all chance of it killing me, so why should I bother with a vaccine?"]. However issues 1 through 5 above remain - sooner or later covid will explode again, with high likelihood of more dangerous strains emerging, at which time those young/fit people may start dropping by the million.

7. What has been definitely proven now is that although vaccination does not 100% absolutely prevent any particular person catching the virus, being ill, or spreading the virus, it does considerably reduce the chance of catching and spreading. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch covid than unvaccinated people. Vaccinated covid sufferers infect fewer people than unvaccinated covid sufferers. This means that AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE GET VACCINATED we can throw away all the masks, end the lockdowns, go back to the pub, and the week-on-week infection numbers will still go down rather than going up. This is the HERD IMMUNITY effect, where the disease dies down to the extent that even the unvaccinated people are protected because the likelihood of exposure to an ill person becomes very low.

8. IF AND ONLY IF the global number of cases falls, then the emergence of new strains will happen at slower and slower rates. Which removes the danger of new strains coming faster than vaccines can be tweaked. Which allows more people to be vaccinated before the vaccines need tweaking again. Which reduces the number of cases further etc. This is probably the most important thing because this REDUCES THE CHANCE OF ANY ULTRA DEADLY STRAIN EMERGING.

The moral of this story is this: If everyone who can be vaccinated, does get vaccinated, then there is a halfway good chance of the world emerging from the gloom, everyone chucking the masks, and something like normal life resuming. BUT if too many people say "nah, I don't need a vaccine, I'll be okay" then there is a horrible chance that we will never get back to normal, and a growing chance of death on a scale that would dwarf the last twelve months.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

Okay, the deal is this:

But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated:

Deserves to be read with an open mind and understood by us all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

Okay, the deal is this:

But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated:

Deserves to be read with an open mind and understood by us all. "

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced.

If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.

Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.

We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud

Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card.

So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less.

Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all.

It's funny you think that the cards in place would be used for this sort of thing."

Didn't mean using the vaccine cards for travel would be used to gain access to pubs, I was just saying there is a form of vaccine card that has been used for years.

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

And there it is. Beautiful in its simplicity & complexity. Well written, thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a pro vaxxer, but believe this is unworkable. Essentially any pub that wants to implement this would have to have to have someone on the door to stop no vaxxers getting in. You will have to be vaccinated to travel abroad, now pubs. I'm waiting for an announcement about the employment sector when it re starts, restaurants, clubs, cinemas. Hopefully i'm wrong and this will stop at pubs. Stay safe everyone.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It was just an idea being floated, rather than a full scale imposition of severe restrictions on our freedoms.

I also think mass testing etc is a good idea, especially earlier on, or if problems start to show again. Could be in conjunction with vaccine status checks.

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

"The vaccine thing for pubs won’t be on a piece of card. It’ll be digital."

Imagine telling a landlords that before opening their doors to make back some of the cash they have lost during lockdown they will have to cough up for a vaccine card reader and train staff on what to do if some pesky non vaccinated student type tries to get his or her student debt ridden carcass through the door to have a pint.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The vaccine thing for pubs won’t be on a piece of card. It’ll be digital.

Well, they won't have to, because on the information we've got, it'll be up to the individual proprietor.

But necessity is the mother of invention, and if we poo-pooed everything that didn't yet exist, we'd still be gnawing on raw meat because cooking and fire is all a bit high tech.

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I would rather take a test every time I want to go to the pub than be bullied into getting vaccinated.

Why can't they come up with a way to make that work?

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I would rather take a test every time I want to go to the pub than be bullied into getting vaccinated.

Why can't they come up with a way to make that work?"

Who's bullying you?

Being vaccinated is a choice as is going to the pub.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would rather take a test every time I want to go to the pub than be bullied into getting vaccinated.

Why can't they come up with a way to make that work?"

It's not bullying, it's a choice. Your choice, their choice.

And if it's a choice that some establishments make, it'll be because of the need to establish herd immunity. While individual choice is sacrosanct, it comes with consequences for the people around you. The less people are vaccinated, the less protected we are. And it means those not individually protected by vaccines are in danger.

I'm not sure when "consequences for your actions" became bullying (let alone tyranny as some suggest). I would have thought it was life as we all know it, from being toddlers.

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By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.

I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab

Okay, the deal is this:

But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated:

Finally, someone with the patience and understanding to put it in a clear and concise manner. Thank you

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