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Realistically at what “step” can we meet for play dates again

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I’ve been looking through the lockdown easing roadmap and trying to work out when we can legally start to meet again. It appears there is no specific “swingers off you go again” guidance; a terrible oversight Boris......

But seriously though is it level 3, where 2 households can meet indoors or step 4 when clubs can open and there are no legal limits on social contacts.

I fully understand that many will be very reluctant to start meeting again and some are chomping at the bit to dust off the condom packet and put the wand on charge!

What are peoples thoughts?

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

Taken at face value it would be Not Before 21st June as according to Govt this is the earliest date social distancing rules will no longer apply.

Of course, it's up to individuals when they choose to meet. Whether they do so before the government tells them it's ok to or not is their business and theirs alone.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Not before 21 June, possibly after. I'm not clear that 21 June is an end to the need for distancing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it says back to normal tho i think you'll see temp checks and sanitizer everywhere for a year after... i don't think the country or world for that matter can last another summer exiled financially or emotionally.. it maybe a case of there is still a risk.. so at your own risk.. come June.. also if 10000 people can go to a footy match from May people are likely to feel at liberty

d

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Not before 21 June, possibly after. I'm not clear that 21 June is an end to the need for distancing"

This..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

im pencilled in to work festivals from August onwards.. social distancing will be up to individual i think

d

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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago

St Neots/Wisbech

Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago

St Neots/Wisbech


"Taken at face value it would be Not Before 21st June as according to Govt this is the earliest date social distancing rules will no longer apply.

Of course, it's up to individuals when they choose to meet. Whether they do so before the government tells them it's ok to or not is their business and theirs alone."

Spot on !

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

At level 3 where two households can meet indoors, they must still maintain social distancing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I (M) tested positive today - I’ve socially distanced wore a mask and it still finally got me thankfully all I have is a few aches but I wouldn’t rush out for meets until it’s safe and legal

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I (M) tested positive today - I’ve socially distanced wore a mask and it still finally got me thankfully all I have is a few aches but I wouldn’t rush out for meets until it’s safe and legal "

Feel better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I (M) tested positive today - I’ve socially distanced wore a mask and it still finally got me thankfully all I have is a few aches but I wouldn’t rush out for meets until it’s safe and legal

Feel better"

Thanks, I’m a bit achy but nothing else so far x

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By *hatawasteMan
over a year ago

stafford


"I’ve been looking through the lockdown easing roadmap and trying to work out when we can legally start to meet again. It appears there is no specific “swingers off you go again” guidance; a terrible oversight Boris......

But seriously though is it level 3, where 2 households can meet indoors or step 4 when clubs can open and there are no legal limits on social contacts.

I fully understand that many will be very reluctant to start meeting again and some are chomping at the bit to dust off the condom packet and put the wand on charge!

What are peoples thoughts?"

I don't believe the lockdown will end this year.. Because people are already ignoring the rules and probably will act all surprised when we get shut down all over again and can't go pub

However, I might consider starting to meet people again in the Autumn but for monogamous partners.. the days of the lifestyle as they were for me is very much over.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early"."

Common sense has served us so well this year, clearly

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By *iddle ManMan
over a year ago

Walsall

As already mentioned, if thousands of people can gather together for sports and festivals then I feel you should have nothing to worry about from a legal point of view. Although I can see some forms of social distancing staying for a while.

It's now a moral dilemma and upto each individual as and when or even if they meet up with others again.

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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago

St Neots/Wisbech


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

Common sense has served us so well this year, clearly "

Clearly has where we live.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We wont be going by dates set by the Gov.

its more important to us to be confident the risk is lower for us and who we meet not a date.

Say another couple have also had the Vaccine and both couples take a Lateral flow test that's about as safe anyone can make meets "

this is how i think it will happen.. just people doing it calmly and discretely with trusted people.

As festivals get going and people are allowed indoors together.. People will hug again.. i saw work colleagues hugging in the Trafford centre at Christmas and it made me smile.

i think there'll be a point in the summer that a line in the sand will be drawn.. the furlough coffers will be empty very soon.. and measures will only resume if it gets to absolute emergency levels which ib theory died majority vaccinated.. it shouldn't do

d

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By *ice and PeasCouple
over a year ago

West Midlands

On GMB DR Hillary said that he was expecting the pandemic to run for 2 years....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As already mentioned, if thousands of people can gather together for sports and festivals then I feel you should have nothing to worry about from a legal point of view. Although I can see some forms of social distancing staying for a while.

It's now a moral dilemma and upto each individual as and when or even if they meet up with others again. "

very much agree with this

d

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By *aekaeWoman
over a year ago

Between a cock and a soft place

[Removed by poster at 18/03/21 20:56:41]

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By *revaunanceCouple
over a year ago

Exeter


"Not before 21 June, possibly after. I'm not clear that 21 June is an end to the need for distancing"

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are many people actually still following the rules ?

Going by the amount of meets people are looking for on here and what I see and know of work friends and neighbours I don’t think many are even following the rules as it is.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Exactly why I started the thread, it is a bit of a dilemma isn’t it. I’m about to get vaccine number 2 as I’m in healthcare, lateral flow twice weekly so I would access my risk personally and my risk to others as low. The difficulty is how others and indeed the law see it; very difficult

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By *r and Mrs B xxCouple
over a year ago

Chippenham

We are just going to play it by ear and do what we believe is right for us.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"We are just going to play it by ear and do what we believe is right for us. "

I think that’s what ultimately we will all have to do; lovely to hear from you 2 again; seems forever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Had people stopped having playdates! Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On GMB DR Hillary said that he was expecting the pandemic to run for 2 years...."
that's OK I don't fancy him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had people stopped having playdates! Lol"

No... they just keep on the quiet and away from the Covid experts lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

are clubs govern by local council not goverment ? ifso is it not down to them?

not that i know just a brain fart thought

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By *r and Mrs B xxCouple
over a year ago

Chippenham


"We are just going to play it by ear and do what we believe is right for us.

I think that’s what ultimately we will all have to do; lovely to hear from you 2 again; seems forever"

It is forever, have to catch up again when we are able to.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

"

I'll be making similar calculations.

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By *eedsmale36Man
over a year ago

Leeds


"We wont be going by dates set by the Gov.

its more important to us to be confident the risk is lower for us and who we meet not a date.

Say another couple have also had the Vaccine and both couples take a Lateral flow test that's about as safe anyone can make meets "

No fucking in a phone box until 2022.....dam !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

"

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there must be a line in the sand at some point when a high percentage vaccinated

d

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not? "

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"there must be a line in the sand at some point when a high percentage vaccinated

d"

Yes, but individual decision making may differ, as this thread shows

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By *andy2123Couple
over a year ago

Portsmouth


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early"."

Agreed!

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By *andy2123Couple
over a year ago

Portsmouth

We have had 2 jabs now, and we feel as safe as you could be. Xx

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By *andy2123Couple
over a year ago

Portsmouth


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not? "

What difference would it make, if you have had the vaccination esp 2 vaccinations? X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc.....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc....."

Yes, when a level of herd immunity has been reached

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By *andy2123Couple
over a year ago

Portsmouth


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc....."

You get a card after the first one as well, the 2nd one, they want to send to you. X

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By *andytvmaidTV/TS
over a year ago

Leicester


"Not before 21 June, possibly after. I'm not clear that 21 June is an end to the need for distancing"

Don’t think people should meet until at least 3 weeks after everyone who can be is vaccinated.

I have my second jab in May. Yippee

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By *havennaturistsCouple
over a year ago

Banff

Don't forget STD's! They haven't gone away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept "

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive.

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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago

harrow


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc.....

Yes, when a level of herd immunity has been reached"

No such thing - Covid is going nowhere and will anyway mutate

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive. "

So, how do you determine whether someone is safe? I didn't say all people always tell the truth all the time. I said we rely on trust - will this person respect me, are that hiding an STI I might catch? "Are they telling the truth about the vaccine" just gets added to the things you have to decide you trust them in.

I find this line bemusing through all this. People will lie about being vaccinated/ will forge documents/ will just break the law if they want to.

It's a shame no one has ever, ever, in the history of humanity, dealt with evaluating trustworthiness. Obviously concepts like fraud and forgery (in the case of falsification) are a figment of my imagination, and my weighing up "do I get a good sense of trusting this person" are a product of my sex deprived addled mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive.

So, how do you determine whether someone is safe? I didn't say all people always tell the truth all the time. I said we rely on trust - will this person respect me, are that hiding an STI I might catch? "Are they telling the truth about the vaccine" just gets added to the things you have to decide you trust them in.

I find this line bemusing through all this. People will lie about being vaccinated/ will forge documents/ will just break the law if they want to.

It's a shame no one has ever, ever, in the history of humanity, dealt with evaluating trustworthiness. Obviously concepts like fraud and forgery (in the case of falsification) are a figment of my imagination, and my weighing up "do I get a good sense of trusting this person" are a product of my sex deprived addled mind."

You are a funny one

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive.

So, how do you determine whether someone is safe? I didn't say all people always tell the truth all the time. I said we rely on trust - will this person respect me, are that hiding an STI I might catch? "Are they telling the truth about the vaccine" just gets added to the things you have to decide you trust them in.

I find this line bemusing through all this. People will lie about being vaccinated/ will forge documents/ will just break the law if they want to.

It's a shame no one has ever, ever, in the history of humanity, dealt with evaluating trustworthiness. Obviously concepts like fraud and forgery (in the case of falsification) are a figment of my imagination, and my weighing up "do I get a good sense of trusting this person" are a product of my sex deprived addled mind.

You are a funny one "

It's a serious question. If you can't trust people to be truthful about vaccination, how can you trust them with anything else?

If forgery is a way to destroy Covid certification, why haven't we abolished money?

Take your assertions to their logical conclusion.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive. "

Personally I don't go shagging any random individual that I have only met 30 seconds ago, and establishing trust consists of a little more than "Hi there person I've never met before, have you had a covid jab?", "Yes", "Okay then lets get fucking"...

Yes theoretically somebody could go to the extreme lengths of getting to know me online, then via voice chat, video chat, social meetings, over a period of several years, specifically just to get inside my knickers for a quick bunk up. They could discuss science, literature, art, philosophy, theology with me while secretly being a covid denying antivaxxer deliberately planning to lie in order to spread a disease. They could have read, understood and be able to debate details of microbiology, virology, epidemiology, vaccination theory but in private deny Darwinian evolution and run a flat earther website.

And even if they do all this, waiting for my points (c)(d)(e) above would mean that there was verifiable third party evidence that the epidemic was over and it was now safe to mix with groups of people even in the absence of 100% vaccination.

So yeah, I am totally naive. Somebody sold me the Brooklyn Bridge only last week...

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc.....

Yes, when a level of herd immunity has been reached

No such thing - Covid is going nowhere and will anyway mutate "

If there's sufficient level of immunity, someone with it, whilst infectious, will find it difficult to infect another. In that situation, the R number keeps shrinking, with ever fewer people who have it, who might support any mutation occurring.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For me it will be when

(a) I have had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect.

plus (b) Anybody I meet with has had both vaccine jabs, then three weeks to attain maximum effect. Or for clubs, there is a vaccine passport requirement.

plus (c) General herd immunity has been reached as evidenced by extremely low rate of new positive detections.

plus (d) Crowd events such as football, festivals, large concerts are taking place and still no rise in new positive detections (more evidence of herd immunity having been reached).

plus (e) There are no new strains on the rise (by implication, any new strain with rising numbers post herd immunity must be a vaccine resistant strain and potentially more dangerous).

At this point it can be safely assumed that the number of infectious individuals is below 1 in 10 thousand (ie. at a moderate sized football match, low chance of even a single infectious person being present), and it is very safe for normal group social interaction.

So you are banking on people telling you the truth about if they have had the vaccine or not?

Imagine trusting people you have sex with. What a shocking concept

Ha ha. Yes because people never lie to get what they want. Jesus, talk about being naive.

So, how do you determine whether someone is safe? I didn't say all people always tell the truth all the time. I said we rely on trust - will this person respect me, are that hiding an STI I might catch? "Are they telling the truth about the vaccine" just gets added to the things you have to decide you trust them in.

I find this line bemusing through all this. People will lie about being vaccinated/ will forge documents/ will just break the law if they want to.

It's a shame no one has ever, ever, in the history of humanity, dealt with evaluating trustworthiness. Obviously concepts like fraud and forgery (in the case of falsification) are a figment of my imagination, and my weighing up "do I get a good sense of trusting this person" are a product of my sex deprived addled mind.

You are a funny one

It's a serious question. If you can't trust people to be truthful about vaccination, how can you trust them with anything else?

If forgery is a way to destroy Covid certification, why haven't we abolished money?

Take your assertions to their logical conclusion. "

Still making me laugh

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If they're in your dungeon long enough, they won't be infectious

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"If they're in your dungeon long enough, they won't be infectious "

I'm not sure (baby goat napping) is an acceptable way to mitigate public health concerns

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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago

harrow


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc.....

Yes, when a level of herd immunity has been reached

No such thing - Covid is going nowhere and will anyway mutate

If there's sufficient level of immunity, someone with it, whilst infectious, will find it difficult to infect another. In that situation, the R number keeps shrinking, with ever fewer people who have it, who might support any mutation occurring. "

The R number is going up and will continue to do so as we ease restrictions and the threat if mutation is high , not only in the UK but from abroad . Witty, vallence and all the prominent scientists have made it quite clear that there will never any sort of 'herd immunity and that Covid is going nowhere so we may just have to live with tens of thousands dying a year . That's their modeling not mine.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

As soon as social distancing is removed, so predicted 21st June.

I can't wait for all the events to be back on and to be simply able to hug my friends

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By *BWarksCouple
over a year ago

warwick

Whenever you like , we had enough of all this a long time ago

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By *lamourpussyCouple
over a year ago

Warwick


"We wont be going by dates set by the Gov.

its more important to us to be confident the risk is lower for us and who we meet not a date.

Say another couple have also had the Vaccine and both couples take a Lateral flow test that's about as safe anyone can make meets "

This

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By *iguy for funMan
over a year ago

CIRENCESTER


"If they're in your dungeon long enough, they won't be infectious "

jolly good question for which i will get my pants pulled down in public and given a spanking for being not very intelligent.

assuming we have all been good and monogamous since at least this latest lockdown started and some for a long time (and yes not all std's are the same) presumably std rates will fall/be substantially lower for a while due to the passing of time/lack of action/close proximity?

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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago

harrow


"As soon as social distancing is removed, so predicted 21st June.

I can't wait for all the events to be back on and to be simply able to hug my friends "

Nowhere have they said social distancing is being removed 21st June . No limit on social contacts is what they have said so if you think Covid is going away on 21st June and you can hug and kiss your friends you will be very disappointed. The culture secretary Oliver Dowden said today that after 21st June , they are looking at covid safe ways to get limited crowds into sports events. That doesn’t sound like any lessening of social distancing. Add to that the prediction of a 3rd wave here within weeks following on from Europe, its highly unlikely the roadmap won’t be affected. Either way , with 60% of the population unvaccinated and at best by June approx 40% this thing is far far from over

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land


"As soon as social distancing is removed, so predicted 21st June.

I can't wait for all the events to be back on and to be simply able to hug my friends

Nowhere have they said social distancing is being removed 21st June . No limit on social contacts is what they have said so if you think Covid is going away on 21st June and you can hug and kiss your friends you will be very disappointed. The culture secretary Oliver Dowden said today that after 21st June , they are looking at covid safe ways to get limited crowds into sports events. That doesn’t sound like any lessening of social distancing. Add to that the prediction of a 3rd wave here within weeks following on from Europe, its highly unlikely the roadmap won’t be affected. Either way , with 60% of the population unvaccinated and at best by June approx 40% this thing is far far from over"

**

I don't think covid will ever go away.

For me personally I'm just waiting for the rules/government guidelines to change. As of now, predicted to be June 21st.

As soon as that happens I'll be hugging my friends & hopefully ditching face masks.

I've had covid, I've had the first jab, I've an appointment for my second. I'm not going to avoid my friends or events, after the guidance is relaxed. The exception is, unlesss one of them choses to continue taking precautions, in which case I wouldnt be meeting then any how. Not that anyone in my friends circle has said they will continue isolating.

Sporting events and any crowds of hundreds or thousands holds no appeal to me, neither does the pub or cinema

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"If they're in your dungeon long enough, they won't be infectious

jolly good question for which i will get my pants pulled down in public and given a spanking for being not very intelligent.

assuming we have all been good and monogamous since at least this latest lockdown started and some for a long time (and yes not all std's are the same) presumably std rates will fall/be substantially lower for a while due to the passing of time/lack of action/close proximity?"

Yes. People will generally not remain infectious for extremely long periods of time, including the incubation period before symptoms which may appear. From exposure to the end of the infectious period is reasonable at 3 weeks, to have practically everyone virus free. Keeping good ventilation around them and any surfaces cleaned very thoroughly, to prevent any virus remaining on them, should allow someone to emerge from your dungeon covid free. This is beyond the period of normal quarantine recommended.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As soon as social distancing is removed, so predicted 21st June.

I can't wait for all the events to be back on and to be simply able to hug my friends

Nowhere have they said social distancing is being removed 21st June . No limit on social contacts is what they have said so if you think Covid is going away on 21st June and you can hug and kiss your friends you will be very disappointed. The culture secretary Oliver Dowden said today that after 21st June , they are looking at covid safe ways to get limited crowds into sports events. That doesn’t sound like any lessening of social distancing. Add to that the prediction of a 3rd wave here within weeks following on from Europe, its highly unlikely the roadmap won’t be affected. Either way , with 60% of the population unvaccinated and at best by June approx 40% this thing is far far from over"

they want limited crowds at sports events from May, not June

d

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By *arakiss12TV/TS
over a year ago

Bedford

By my calculations Spring 2023.

Once all the variants and booster jabs have been taken care of. Not forgetting the NHS strikes for not being paid. The odd protest March along the way. Throw in the odd mystery super spreader.

Hopefully we'll make it to then.

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By *nnie2009Couple
over a year ago

Blackpool


"By my calculations Spring 2023.

Once all the variants and booster jabs have been taken care of. Not forgetting the NHS strikes for not being paid. The odd protest March along the way. Throw in the odd mystery super spreader.

Hopefully we'll make it to then. "
will be out June for socials with friends.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"By my calculations Spring 2023.

Once all the variants and booster jabs have been taken care of. Not forgetting the NHS strikes for not being paid. The odd protest March along the way. Throw in the odd mystery super spreader.

Hopefully we'll make it to then. "

Daft as it seems, there’s every possibility of this.

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By *reyyaMan
over a year ago

North Yorkshire

If I were to hazard a guess I would say that from the Govt point of view the answer would be never.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When everyone has had the jab twice. Apparently you get a card to confirm you have had it twice as proof. So holidays etc.... this could be a mandatory requirement for all aspects of travel,meeting etc....."

You get given a card at the first appointment and take it with you to the second and both jabs are entered at the time.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Going by the crowds on Plymouth Hoe...they actually do think it's over already ?? and think it will be end the end of ...whenever "Boris" see his polls numbers sliding ???...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People aren't socially distancing now so what does it matter

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Well going by the news/leaks we'll all be trapped on Plague/Brexit island for awhile yet !! and rumours of the "Rights" being sold are unfounded ??! and think it's just 2nd guessing everything you might read/hear anyway they put out the very very very very worse case scenario and so when it turns up they didn't cock it up so badly this time and everyone will be so "Grateful/Relieved" they'll forget everything that has happened ..TILL....

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By *ctionnotwords69Man
over a year ago

ENFIELD


"We wont be going by dates set by the Gov.

its more important to us to be confident the risk is lower for us and who we meet not a date.

Say another couple have also had the Vaccine and both couples take a Lateral flow test that's about as safe anyone can make meets

this is how i think it will happen.. just people doing it calmly and discretely with trusted people.

As festivals get going and people are allowed indoors together.. People will hug again.. i saw work colleagues hugging in the Trafford centre at Christmas and it made me smile.

i think there'll be a point in the summer that a line in the sand will be drawn.. the furlough coffers will be empty very soon.. and measures will only resume if it gets to absolute emergency levels which ib theory died majority vaccinated.. it shouldn't do

d"

Think Spanish flu epidemic went on for 4 years....

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By *immyleaMan
over a year ago

Derby

[Removed by poster at 29/03/21 06:25:29]

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By *immyleaMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early"."

For private meets, things may indeed kick off early - but in terms of clubs and public events, I'd be more worried about the simple logistics we never had to consider before, some of which might render certain situations unworkable now.

Example. Imagine it's November, things are once more back open, passports aren't compulsory for club entry, and people have begun attending again in large numbers. All well and good.

Until, that is, the night you find yourself in a situation where a group scene starts to take place and you're invited to join. At which point, what happens? Does everybody stop screwing at once and ask you to show that you've been vaxed?

Furthermore, if you haven't, and most people disapprove of this even though you may have a genuine medical reason, do you spend the rest of the night being pointed and metaphorically spat at like a leper, hoping to find the one person that doesn't judge you so harshly? And then if they play with you, do THEY get ostracised?

Or, conversely, if everybody in that group DOESN'T care about playing with an unvaxed person bar one (because they've already all had two doses and thus consider themselves sufficiently defended) does that 'one' get asked to leave and find other partners, or the new incumbent? And, most importantly, given that a lot of said people will be half naked in this situation anyway, how would they carry or produce such proof even if they could?

Ok, a lot of clubs have smart casual dress codes, so if you're wearing your suit/trousers, fine- but at Chams and Club Play, all males are asked to strip to just a towel and some boxers, so there goes that! Unless they can keep a certificate in their shoes of course, but in there it could easily get damaged, stolen or become damp and unredable, so that's not advisable either...

Alternatively, will there be special areas or even special nights for vaxed and non-vaxed players only? (NB: this last is not peculiar to our scene, it could just as easily apply to a vanilla club) And how would that work financially for the organisers?

The point being, none of this seems practically workable to me at all unless (as said above) we reach the point where people simply draw a line in the sand and go "OK, enough people have now been innoculated, that's fucking IT now, no more arseing about, back to life, back to reality" (cue for a song)

After all, it's not like there was ever any official Government guidance for the Scene- their official party line (although if you believe it, you'll cornrow fog) is that the likes of us don't even exist and that they've never even HEARD of polyamoury!! When clubs closed last Spring, it wasn't because they were ordered to, it was because they wanted to do the sensible and compassionate thing (or at least be publicly seen to be doing so, so as not to be singled out as "that venue where the people who died caught it" in the sensationalist media) and therefore, they should be able to apply that selfsame logic to reopening too.

Yet sadly, my instincts tell me that even if the majority of the populace reach a stage whereby the consensus begins to slide in that general direction, SOMEONE somewhere in the establishment will find a reason to thwart their plans and put the kaibosh on it (possibly 'variants', possibly another new terminology) Why not? It's happened every time so far.

And of course, at this point, those who have been consistently eager to blame others for being 'irresponsible' throughout, rather than facing up to the fact that the country is run by corrupt gangsters, will once more feel vindicated- and can retreat to the safety of their convictions. For the rest of us, however, it will simply be the start of another year of purgatory, dejection, tedium and despondency. Which will it be? Let us see.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you only need to dress down at club play upstairs in play areas

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By *immyleaMan
over a year ago

Derby


"you only need to dress down at club play upstairs in play areas"

Oh, I know!! But that's where a large contingency of people tend to head after a certain point in the evening, and I'd like to think I'd be among them...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

For private meets, things may indeed kick off early - but in terms of clubs and public events, I'd be more worried about the simple logistics we never had to consider before, some of which might render certain situations unworkable now.

Example. Imagine it's November, things are once more back open, passports aren't compulsory for club entry, and people have begun attending again in large numbers. All well and good.

Until, that is, the night you find yourself in a situation where a group scene starts to take place and you're invited to join. At which point, what happens? Does everybody stop screwing at once and ask you to show that you've been vaxed?

Furthermore, if you haven't, and most people disapprove of this even though you may have a genuine medical reason, do you spend the rest of the night being pointed and metaphorically spat at like a leper, hoping to find the one person that doesn't judge you so harshly? And then if they play with you, do THEY get ostracised?

Or, conversely, if everybody in that group DOESN'T care about playing with an unvaxed person bar one (because they've already all had two doses and thus consider themselves sufficiently defended) does that 'one' get asked to leave and find other partners, or the new incumbent? And, most importantly, given that a lot of said people will be half naked in this situation anyway, how would they carry or produce such proof even if they could?

Ok, a lot of clubs have smart casual dress codes, so if you're wearing your suit/trousers, fine- but at Chams and Club Play, all males are asked to strip to just a towel and some boxers, so there goes that! Unless they can keep a certificate in their shoes of course, but in there it could easily get damaged, stolen or become damp and unredable, so that's not advisable either...

Alternatively, will there be special areas or even special nights for vaxed and non-vaxed players only? (NB: this last is not peculiar to our scene, it could just as easily apply to a vanilla club) And how would that work financially for the organisers?

The point being, none of this seems practically workable to me at all unless (as said above) we reach the point where people simply draw a line in the sand and go "OK, enough people have now been innoculated, that's fucking IT now, no more arseing about, back to life, back to reality" (cue for a song)

After all, it's not like there was ever any official Government guidance for the Scene- their official party line (although if you believe it, you'll cornrow fog) is that the likes of us don't even exist and that they've never even HEARD of polyamoury!! When clubs closed last Spring, it wasn't because they were ordered to, it was because they wanted to do the sensible and compassionate thing (or at least be publicly seen to be doing so, so as not to be singled out as "that venue where the people who died caught it" in the sensationalist media) and therefore, they should be able to apply that selfsame logic to reopening too.

Yet sadly, my instincts tell me that even if the majority of the populace reach a stage whereby the consensus begins to slide in that general direction, SOMEONE somewhere in the establishment will find a reason to thwart their plans and put the kaibosh on it (possibly 'variants', possibly another new terminology) Why not? It's happened every time so far.

And of course, at this point, those who have been consistently eager to blame others for being 'irresponsible' throughout, rather than facing up to the fact that the country is run by corrupt gangsters, will once more feel vindicated- and can retreat to the safety of their convictions. For the rest of us, however, it will simply be the start of another year of purgatory, dejection, tedium and despondency. Which will it be? Let us see."

Love this post some thought provoking questions for sure buddy

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By *immyleaMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

For private meets, things may indeed kick off early - but in terms of clubs and public events, I'd be more worried about the simple logistics we never had to consider before, some of which might render certain situations unworkable now.

Example. Imagine it's November, things are once more back open, passports aren't compulsory for club entry, and people have begun attending again in large numbers. All well and good.

Until, that is, the night you find yourself in a situation where a group scene starts to take place and you're invited to join. At which point, what happens? Does everybody stop screwing at once and ask you to show that you've been vaxed?

Furthermore, if you haven't, and most people disapprove of this even though you may have a genuine medical reason, do you spend the rest of the night being pointed and metaphorically spat at like a leper, hoping to find the one person that doesn't judge you so harshly? And then if they play with you, do THEY get ostracised?

Or, conversely, if everybody in that group DOESN'T care about playing with an unvaxed person bar one (because they've already all had two doses and thus consider themselves sufficiently defended) does that 'one' get asked to leave and find other partners, or the new incumbent? And, most importantly, given that a lot of said people will be half naked in this situation anyway, how would they carry or produce such proof even if they could?

Ok, a lot of clubs have smart casual dress codes, so if you're wearing your suit/trousers, fine- but at Chams and Club Play, all males are asked to strip to just a towel and some boxers, so there goes that! Unless they can keep a certificate in their shoes of course, but in there it could easily get damaged, stolen or become damp and unredable, so that's not advisable either...

Alternatively, will there be special areas or even special nights for vaxed and non-vaxed players only? (NB: this last is not peculiar to our scene, it could just as easily apply to a vanilla club) And how would that work financially for the organisers?

The point being, none of this seems practically workable to me at all unless (as said above) we reach the point where people simply draw a line in the sand and go "OK, enough people have now been innoculated, that's fucking IT now, no more arseing about, back to life, back to reality" (cue for a song)

After all, it's not like there was ever any official Government guidance for the Scene- their official party line (although if you believe it, you'll cornrow fog) is that the likes of us don't even exist and that they've never even HEARD of polyamoury!! When clubs closed last Spring, it wasn't because they were ordered to, it was because they wanted to do the sensible and compassionate thing (or at least be publicly seen to be doing so, so as not to be singled out as "that venue where the people who died caught it" in the sensationalist media and, most importantly, lose their licence) and therefore, they should be able to apply that selfsame logic to reopening.

Yet sadly, my instincts tell me that even if the majority of the populace reach a stage whereby the consensus begins to slide in that general direction, SOMEONE somewhere in the establishment will find a reason to thwart their plans and put the kaibosh on it (possibly 'variants', possibly another new terminology) Why not? It's happened every time so far.

And of course, at this point, those who have been consistently eager to blame others for being 'irresponsible' throughout, rather than facing up to the fact that the country is run by corrupt gangsters, will once more feel vindicated- and can retreat happily to the safety of their convictions. For the rest of us, however, it will simply be the start of another year of purgatory, dejection, tedium and despondency.

Which will it be? Let us see.

Love this post some thought provoking questions for sure buddy "

Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking along similar lines. For months, I've been too afraid, too tired, too depressed or all three to voice my concerns, but now that people are making rumblings about 'opening up' and suchlike, I felt I couldn't hold off ay longer. And I'm sure many others will feel the same. Hopefully, in time, we'll hear their thoughts as well.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

For private meets, things may indeed kick off early - but in terms of clubs and public events, I'd be more worried about the simple logistics we never had to consider before, some of which might render certain situations unworkable now.

Example. Imagine it's November, things are once more back open, passports aren't compulsory for club entry, and people have begun attending again in large numbers. All well and good.

Until, that is, the night you find yourself in a situation where a group scene starts to take place and you're invited to join. At which point, what happens? Does everybody stop screwing at once and ask you to show that you've been vaxed?

Furthermore, if you haven't, and most people disapprove of this even though you may have a genuine medical reason, do you spend the rest of the night being pointed and metaphorically spat at like a leper, hoping to find the one person that doesn't judge you so harshly? And then if they play with you, do THEY get ostracised?

Or, conversely, if everybody in that group DOESN'T care about playing with an unvaxed person bar one (because they've already all had two doses and thus consider themselves sufficiently defended) does that 'one' get asked to leave and find other partners, or the new incumbent? And, most importantly, given that a lot of said people will be half naked in this situation anyway, how would they carry or produce such proof even if they could?

Ok, a lot of clubs have smart casual dress codes, so if you're wearing your suit/trousers, fine- but at Chams and Club Play, all males are asked to strip to just a towel and some boxers, so there goes that! Unless they can keep a certificate in their shoes of course, but in there it could easily get damaged, stolen or become damp and unredable, so that's not advisable either...

Alternatively, will there be special areas or even special nights for vaxed and non-vaxed players only? (NB: this last is not peculiar to our scene, it could just as easily apply to a vanilla club) And how would that work financially for the organisers?

The point being, none of this seems practically workable to me at all unless (as said above) we reach the point where people simply draw a line in the sand and go "OK, enough people have now been innoculated, that's fucking IT now, no more arseing about, back to life, back to reality" (cue for a song)

After all, it's not like there was ever any official Government guidance for the Scene- their official party line (although if you believe it, you'll cornrow fog) is that the likes of us don't even exist and that they've never even HEARD of polyamoury!! When clubs closed last Spring, it wasn't because they were ordered to, it was because they wanted to do the sensible and compassionate thing (or at least be publicly seen to be doing so, so as not to be singled out as "that venue where the people who died caught it" in the sensationalist media) and therefore, they should be able to apply that selfsame logic to reopening too.

Yet sadly, my instincts tell me that even if the majority of the populace reach a stage whereby the consensus begins to slide in that general direction, SOMEONE somewhere in the establishment will find a reason to thwart their plans and put the kaibosh on it (possibly 'variants', possibly another new terminology) Why not? It's happened every time so far.

And of course, at this point, those who have been consistently eager to blame others for being 'irresponsible' throughout, rather than facing up to the fact that the country is run by corrupt gangsters, will once more feel vindicated- and can retreat to the safety of their convictions. For the rest of us, however, it will simply be the start of another year of purgatory, dejection, tedium and despondency. Which will it be? Let us see."

The chips inside those who are suitably prepared will allow access to restricted areas. Others will fall through trapdoors and be converted to pet food or ultimately get embalmed, as peculiar specimens for further research.

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By *immyleaMan
over a year ago

Derby


"Realistically or legally?

There'll be some who still buy into the Boris B/S who won't even hold hands until he says so, then there's others who will use their own common sense.

If the clubs are to reopen in July then its a pretty safe bet that the risk is virtually zero, but again there'll be the doom mongers who say " oooh it's too early".

For private meets, things may indeed kick off early - but in terms of clubs and public events, I'd be more worried about the simple logistics we never had to consider before, some of which might render certain situations unworkable now.

Example. Imagine it's November, things are once more back open, passports aren't compulsory for club entry, and people have begun attending again in large numbers. All well and good.

Until, that is, the night you find yourself in a situation where a group scene starts to take place and you're invited to join. At which point, what happens? Does everybody stop screwing at once and ask you to show that you've been vaxed?

Furthermore, if you haven't, and most people disapprove of this even though you may have a genuine medical reason, do you spend the rest of the night being pointed and metaphorically spat at like a leper, hoping to find the one person that doesn't judge you so harshly? And then if they play with you, do THEY get ostracised?

Or, conversely, if everybody in that group DOESN'T care about playing with an unvaxed person bar one (because they've already all had two doses and thus consider themselves sufficiently defended) does that 'one' get asked to leave and find other partners, or the new incumbent? And, most importantly, given that a lot of said people will be half naked in this situation anyway, how would they carry or produce such proof even if they could?

Ok, a lot of clubs have smart casual dress codes, so if you're wearing your suit/trousers, fine- but at Chams and Club Play, all males are asked to strip to just a towel and some boxers, so there goes that! Unless they can keep a certificate in their shoes of course, but in there it could easily get damaged, stolen or become damp and unredable, so that's not advisable either...

Alternatively, will there be special areas or even special nights for vaxed and non-vaxed players only? (NB: this last is not peculiar to our scene, it could just as easily apply to a vanilla club) And how would that work financially for the organisers?

The point being, none of this seems practically workable to me at all unless (as said above) we reach the point where people simply draw a line in the sand and go "OK, enough people have now been innoculated, that's fucking IT now, no more arseing about, back to life, back to reality" (cue for a song)

After all, it's not like there was ever any official Government guidance for the Scene- their official party line (although if you believe it, you'll cornrow fog) is that the likes of us don't even exist and that they've never even HEARD of polyamoury!! When clubs closed last Spring, it wasn't because they were ordered to, it was because they wanted to do the sensible and compassionate thing (or at least be publicly seen to be doing so, so as not to be singled out as "that venue where the people who died caught it" in the sensationalist media) and therefore, they should be able to apply that selfsame logic to reopening too.

Yet sadly, my instincts tell me that even if the majority of the populace reach a stage whereby the consensus begins to slide in that general direction, SOMEONE somewhere in the establishment will find a reason to thwart their plans and put the kaibosh on it (possibly 'variants', possibly another new terminology) Why not? It's happened every time so far.

And of course, at this point, those who have been consistently eager to blame others for being 'irresponsible' throughout, rather than facing up to the fact that the country is run by corrupt gangsters, will once more feel vindicated- and can retreat to the safety of their convictions. For the rest of us, however, it will simply be the start of another year of purgatory, dejection, tedium and despondency. Which will it be? Let us see.

The chips inside those who are suitably prepared will allow access to restricted areas. Others will fall through trapdoors and be converted to pet food or ultimately get embalmed, as peculiar specimens for further research. "

You reply in jest, my good T-person, but there may be more truth in that statement than you had thitherto imagined...

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