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Make it illegal

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"
No, next question.

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By *exy_HornyCouple
over a year ago

Leigh


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Yes

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

No, that's an overreach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a tricky issue. I think for covid, no I dont think it should be illegal. I'm all for employers having the right to say no vaccine no work though and no to customers. Unless have medical reasons not to have it.

I think italy made MMR manditory for a few years and seemed to have helped a lot. But I wouldnt get too twitchy with making it illegal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

making vaccines mandatory will only cause further 'anti vaxers' im more in favour of increased education as to the benefits of vaccination v negatives.

All depends on how much you want to die from a preventalbe disease

smallpox kiled 300m in the 20th century and is now eradicated due to world wide vaccination and one of the reasons we no longer have to have 10 kids in the hope that 2 or 3 reach adulthood ..... discuss

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

No, we are very fortunate to live in a country that allows people to decline vaccines

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By *ervy wrongunsCouple
over a year ago

Staffordshire

No.

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By *evensnipeMan
over a year ago

Dinbych

Maybe just charge people who refuse for any medical care they need if they catch it???

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

OP what punishment do you think suitable for this if made illegal, a fine, jail time ?

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

It’s unnecessary government policy causing untold misery to millions.

You do not lock up 60 million healthy people in their homes to protect a minority.

The government have blood on their hands.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no - we cant criminalise people that don’t want to put something into their body

however it is totally reasonable to exclude them from certain elements of society where their choice creates danger for others that didn’t have the choice

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"no - we cant criminalise people that don’t want to put something into their body

however it is totally reasonable to exclude them from certain elements of society where their choice creates danger for others that didn’t have the choice "

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 15/03/21 13:21:42]

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

No, everyone have the right to say no and no it is not about being a anti vaxxer, it is about having a choice, if this is for you or not.

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford

No. But “re-education” camps should be set up for those that have watched one too many Hollywood movie and have convinced themselves that “the vaccine will kill millions” and are busy trying hard to convince others.

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

No, we are very fortunate to live in a country that allows people to decline vaccines "
This

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

what are you proposing as a punishment for this new crime?

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

I think human rights says otherwise.....

It's personal choice. I will be having mine but know others who won't.

Look at it that you protect yourself, let others worry about themselves.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood


"Maybe just charge people who refuse for any medical care they need if they catch it??? "

Would those peeps be able to opt out of funding the nhs through there wages or would u ike them to pay twice for the privalege of using the nhs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

what are you proposing as a punishment for this new crime?"

Maybe fatal injection

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe just charge people who refuse for any medical care they need if they catch it??? "

Same goes with people that get various types of cancer eh? Lock up the smokers, drinkers, poor diet folks, drug users... maybe even people who speed on the road etc....all preventable.

Great system

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

No it's our lives and we are pro choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"OP what punishment do you think suitable for this if made illegal, a fine, jail time ? "

Death by lethal injection

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

No..

Ditto making it illegal to smoke, drink, do outdoor sports etc..

Not sure why anyone would want to live under such a regime so be careful what you ask for is one thing I would say..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

what are you proposing as a punishment for this new crime?"

Being locked in a room with Rees mogg would be a huge deterrent..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if you have an allergy to the vaccine?

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville


"What if you have an allergy to the vaccine? "

What if you have an allergy to any medication?

Will you refuse antibiotics when you have an infection too?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"What if you have an allergy to the vaccine? "

Compassionate exemptions exist for most laws, including vaccine mandates where they exist. They'd apply in such a case in any rational system (not that I'm arguing for a government enforced vaccine mandate).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if you have an allergy to the vaccine?

What if you have an allergy to any medication?

Will you refuse antibiotics when you have an infection too? "

That's a completely different scenario as its governed by your medical records so, in my case for example, I'm allergic to penicillin so I can't refuse it as such as I will never be prescribed it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if you have an allergy to the vaccine?

Compassionate exemptions exist for most laws, including vaccine mandates where they exist. They'd apply in such a case in any rational system (not that I'm arguing for a government enforced vaccine mandate)."

Exactly. I, and I'm sure everyone, understand what the post's author is saying and its well intentioned for 'the greater good' but in real life we can't ever create a forced utopia sadly.

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By *illiam180Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

May I suggest try asking the next of kin of 'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler (1954-2021)

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I don't think so. It was something from a horror movie, causing instant death of anyone within a mile, probably.

As more get the jab, those without it gain some protection.

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By *nowknightMan
over a year ago

BRADFORD


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Just a quiet question

If you are 1 in 345,789, who due, to rare blood type and other medical abnormalities, can not catch Cov19, are you going to force this person to take it ?

Despite this person being a person of interest to research and giving blood and tissue samples....

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville


"What if you have an allergy to the vaccine?

What if you have an allergy to any medication?

Will you refuse antibiotics when you have an infection too?

That's a completely different scenario as its governed by your medical records so, in my case for example, I'm allergic to penicillin so I can't refuse it as such as I will never be prescribed it. "

If you KNOW you are allergic to something it's not a 'what if' scenario in my eyes. To me that infers you don't know but don't want to have it to find out. Maybe I misunderstood.

I am likewise allergic to penicillin and several other mainstream types of antibiotic which is a pain in the ass, knowingly having them could kill me so that could be construed as murder if I was given them or at the least Manslaughter, so logically if you KNOW you would be allergic it would be same, but how would you know?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Yeah if they say no chase them down & burn ‘em , pitchforks & lanterns at the ready

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely not. While being completely pro-vaccine, I am also very much pro-civil liberty.

The precedent that this would set would have the potential to cause far more immeasurable damage.

Kinda like vitriolic filth spouted on the internet. I disagree with a lot of the hateful crap people come out with, nevertheless I would always defend their right to say it. Besides, I prefer racists, bigots and mysoginists et al out in the open where I can see them.

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville


"Absolutely not. While being completely pro-vaccine, I am also very much pro-civil liberty.

The precedent that this would set would have the potential to cause far more immeasurable damage.

Kinda like vitriolic filth spouted on the internet. I disagree with a lot of the hateful crap people come out with, nevertheless I would always defend their right to say it. Besides, I prefer racists, bigots and mysoginists et al out in the open where I can see them."

Well said!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"OP what punishment do you think suitable for this if made illegal, a fine, jail time ? "

The death penalty is the only fair and just solution to people refusing the jab.

It will help with the overpopulation problem too if we can execute a few million

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

It’s unnecessary government policy causing untold misery to millions.

You do not lock up 60 million healthy people in their homes to protect a minority.

The government have blood on their hands. "

Sounds contradictory to me..

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By *layfull pairingCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Nobody will refuse the jab once they realise they shan’t be able to go on planes or get into pubs etc etc... certain jobs will be off limits, personal insurance will become impossible, along with health insurance... it’s all very well saying “I’m not having it” but when life becomes impossible without having it....

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By *ackandtheunicornCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

It’s unnecessary government policy causing untold misery to millions.

You do not lock up 60 million healthy people in their homes to protect a minority.

The government have blood on their hands. "

Absolutely COVID is not a problem, our shit government is.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land


"Nobody will refuse the jab once they realise they shan’t be able to go on planes or get into pubs etc etc... certain jobs will be off limits, personal insurance will become impossible, along with health insurance... it’s all very well saying “I’m not having it” but when life becomes impossible without having it.... "

You say that, on the day Turkey + France have both confirmed travel will be permitted in the summer without covid jabs.

I'm not convinced that you'll ever need vaccine confirmation for entry here in England. My annual travel insurance haven't asked if I've had the vaccine, Tui isn't interested either. That may change but I suspect not.

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By *not123Couple
over a year ago

sp1

I do believe if you work in health care you should be made to have vaccine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cant believe that people genuinely think you should be made to have a vaccine, whole new level of stupid!!

Some people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can you sugest that we live in a free country that our farthers and grandfathers fought for if you made it law thats a violation of human rights plus if you have jab Surely ylu can't catch it anyway Or Dont You Trust It

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/03/21 18:42:06]

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South


"no - we cant criminalise people that don’t want to put something into their body

however it is totally reasonable to exclude them from certain elements of society where their choice creates danger for others that didn’t have the choice "
. This.... employers can require the vaccine.. leisure facilities and holiday destinations hell yes but illegal? Nah

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South


"How can you sugest that we live in a free country that our farthers and grandfathers fought for if you made it law thats a violation of human rights plus if you have jab Surely ylu can't catch it anyway Or Dont You Trust It"

Grand parents surely ..... the winning of rights is not a male only activity

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By *ornsMan
over a year ago

west Midlands

I wonder what "minority" you are referring to?

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

No but I do think that if you go to certain places you should be refused entry if you dont have it.

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By *ungBlackTopMan
over a year ago

salford

Ha NO what a stupid thing to suggest. Hahaha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No. But “re-education” camps should be set up for those that have watched one too many Hollywood movie and have convinced themselves that “the vaccine will kill millions” and are busy trying hard to convince others."

Re education camps, how very communist of you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really??? Make it illegal for people to refuse a vaccination against a virus that has a 98% survival rate?? I don't think so!!

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By *acky RacersCouple
over a year ago

Lincoln

No. Don't make it illegal, but make it illegal for those refusing to have it, having access to indoor public spaces. Obviously essential shops would be excluded. Back in about 2006, the government legislation was passed to prohibited smokers from enclosed indoor spaces, so extend this to vax refusers. After all, it is my right as a non smokers to not be exposed to it, the same could be argued that I am not exposed to a non vaccinated person due to thier choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe just charge people who refuse for any medical care they need if they catch it??? "

They already pay National insurance. What's next refusing smokers or people that do extreme sports?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No. Don't make it illegal, but make it illegal for those refusing to have it, having access to indoor public spaces. Obviously essential shops would be excluded. Back in about 2006, the government legislation was passed to prohibited smokers from enclosed indoor spaces, so extend this to vax refusers. After all, it is my right as a non smokers to not be exposed to it, the same could be argued that I am not exposed to a non vaccinated person due to thier choice. "

And people wonder how societies fall to authoritarianism and totalitarianism...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m having my jab in couple of weeks but am totally against forcing people to have it.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Yeah definitely and if they refuse ship them off to Wales

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"Yeah definitely and if they refuse ship them off to Wales

"

And for those extra sensitive sole's this was a joke before you get knickers in a twist.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

It should be made a legal requirement to state that you’ve had it or not I’ve had it and even if I didn’t and was asked to for a job or to gain entry into another country then it wouldn’t bother me to say yay or nay

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx

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By *leasureMaxDanMan
over a year ago

World Wide Web


"No. Don't make it illegal, but make it illegal for those refusing to have it, having access to indoor public spaces. Obviously essential shops would be excluded. Back in about 2006, the government legislation was passed to prohibited smokers from enclosed indoor spaces, so extend this to vax refusers. After all, it is my right as a non smokers to not be exposed to it, the same could be argued that I am not exposed to a non vaccinated person due to thier choice.

And people wonder how societies fall to authoritarianism and totalitarianism..."

For someone who has experienced said regime to its full extent, it makes me extremely sad reading some of the suggestions on this forum.

The world is changing at an alarming rate, and not heading in the right direction that's for sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx"

If you are that concerned about this then maybe he should carry on shielding if he is vulnerable (my dad is vulnerable also)

How is it any different taking rights off vulnerable people to where they can go to saying that unvaccinated people can't go places?

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"making vaccines mandatory will only cause further 'anti vaxers' im more in favour of increased education as to the benefits of vaccination v negatives.

All depends on how much you want to die from a preventalbe disease

smallpox kiled 300m in the 20th century and is now eradicated due to world wide vaccination and one of the reasons we no longer have to have 10 kids in the hope that 2 or 3 reach adulthood ..... discuss"

I think you make an excellent point and frankly if people can't see why it needs to be compulsory then we are doomed.

It's seeing the bigger picture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No. Don't make it illegal, but make it illegal for those refusing to have it, having access to indoor public spaces. Obviously essential shops would be excluded. Back in about 2006, the government legislation was passed to prohibited smokers from enclosed indoor spaces, so extend this to vax refusers. After all, it is my right as a non smokers to not be exposed to it, the same could be argued that I am not exposed to a non vaccinated person due to thier choice.

And people wonder how societies fall to authoritarianism and totalitarianism...

For someone who has experienced said regime to its full extent, it makes me extremely sad reading some of the suggestions on this forum.

The world is changing at an alarming rate, and not heading in the right direction that's for sure. "

Fear is the foundation of most governments. If fear is present on a daily basis people's protective instinct will kick in and make them turn on their fellow human and make them suggest things that go against people's human rights to protect themselves. Its very sad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Human rights??

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

I've had the, vaccine but to make it a, law, making it compulsory is a ridiculous, suggestion in my book. And now seeing Turkey will allow all UK holiday makers, back without any proof of being vaccinated just endorses the fact it is not really necessary for such measures.

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By *leasureMaxDanMan
over a year ago

World Wide Web


"No. Don't make it illegal, but make it illegal for those refusing to have it, having access to indoor public spaces. Obviously essential shops would be excluded. Back in about 2006, the government legislation was passed to prohibited smokers from enclosed indoor spaces, so extend this to vax refusers. After all, it is my right as a non smokers to not be exposed to it, the same could be argued that I am not exposed to a non vaccinated person due to thier choice.

And people wonder how societies fall to authoritarianism and totalitarianism...

For someone who has experienced said regime to its full extent, it makes me extremely sad reading some of the suggestions on this forum.

The world is changing at an alarming rate, and not heading in the right direction that's for sure.

Fear is the foundation of most governments. If fear is present on a daily basis people's protective instinct will kick in and make them turn on their fellow human and make them suggest things that go against people's human rights to protect themselves. Its very sad."

Many will argue, but you're spot on unfortunately.

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx

If you are that concerned about this then maybe he should carry on shielding if he is vulnerable (my dad is vulnerable also)

How is it any different taking rights off vulnerable people to where they can go to saying that unvaccinated people can't go places? "

So he should shield until he dies?

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I wouldn't be taking rights from anyone, if people choose not to vaccinate and not go abroad for instance then that's a choice they have made.

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By *ny1localMan
over a year ago

READING


"No, everyone have the right to say no and no it is not about being a anti vaxxer, it is about having a choice, if this is for you or not."
why the heck should someone having a choice, be able to put others either at risk, or even kill them?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Cant believe that people genuinely think you should be made to have a vaccine, whole new level of stupid!!

Some people shouldn't be allowed to vote."

What's stupid about asking questions and having a discussion?

(Particularly given that vaccine mandates actually exist in many countries)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx

If you are that concerned about this then maybe he should carry on shielding if he is vulnerable (my dad is vulnerable also)

How is it any different taking rights off vulnerable people to where they can go to saying that unvaccinated people can't go places?

So he should shield until he dies? "

What you are saying has a certain double standard though, you don't think its right for people to be able to say our vulnerable dad's should shield til they die ... but its ok for you to say that unvaccinated people should be denied to live life as it was before and travel and what ever else it implies, making people social outcasts for a making a medical decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 "

Exactly this!!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx

If you are that concerned about this then maybe he should carry on shielding if he is vulnerable (my dad is vulnerable also)

How is it any different taking rights off vulnerable people to where they can go to saying that unvaccinated people can't go places?

So he should shield until he dies?

What you are saying has a certain double standard though, you don't think its right for people to be able to say our vulnerable dad's should shield til they die ... but its ok for you to say that unvaccinated people should be denied to live life as it was before and travel and what ever else it implies, making people social outcasts for a making a medical decision. "

Those who are vulnerable are not vulnerable by choice. Those who choose not to be vaccinated do so by choice. That's why it's not a double standard.

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That's not a double standard. My dad has a right to life.

Your holiday isn't essential.

People who choose not to get vaccinated are making their own choices, My dad would be having the choice made for him.

It's all about personal consent. Are you saying that's not important?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. Otherwise it will be a totaliterian state

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 "
sounds nothing like 1939-1945 we have a choice them poor souls didn’t why do people always compare the now to what the nazis got up to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"That's not a double standard. My dad has a right to life.

Your holiday isn't essential.

People who choose not to get vaccinated are making their own choices, My dad would be having the choice made for him.

It's all about personal consent. Are you saying that's not important?"

Making their own choices... it would everyones choice to go on holiday ... you are taking that right off them ... that's where I see the double standard.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 sounds nothing like 1939-1945 we have a choice them poor souls didn’t why do people always compare the now to what the nazis got up to"

"The government has spent billions protecting us and has purchased vaccines to protect us. Help help it's just like industrialised genocide "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 sounds nothing like 1939-1945 we have a choice them poor souls didn’t why do people always compare the now to what the nazis got up to"

Can you just find a definition of a 're-education camp' as mentioned above and post it? Or should I?

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 sounds nothing like 1939-1945 we have a choice them poor souls didn’t why do people always compare the now to what the nazis got up to

"The government has spent billions protecting us and has purchased vaccines to protect us. Help help it's just like industrialised genocide ""
exactly nothing like it I said something similar regarding the stone roses singer banging the same old drivel about nazi Germany clueless

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"This is all going too far now. People wanting to refuse people medical treatment, exclude people from society, re-education camps (otherwise known as prison camps) all to give rights to one side of society while taking away rights of others ... we said we wouldn't want history to repeat itself but this is all sounding very 1939-1945 sounds nothing like 1939-1945 we have a choice them poor souls didn’t why do people always compare the now to what the nazis got up to

Can you just find a definition of a 're-education camp' as mentioned above and post it? Or should I? "
do what you want but why compare the two it’s completely different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"That's not a double standard. My dad has a right to life.

Your holiday isn't essential.

People who choose not to get vaccinated are making their own choices, My dad would be having the choice made for him.

It's all about personal consent. Are you saying that's not important?

Making their own choices... it would everyones choice to go on holiday ... you are taking that right off them ... that's where I see the double standard. "

holidays are not a human right - lets be realistic

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"That's not a double standard. My dad has a right to life.

Your holiday isn't essential.

People who choose not to get vaccinated are making their own choices, My dad would be having the choice made for him.

It's all about personal consent. Are you saying that's not important?

Making their own choices... it would everyones choice to go on holiday ... you are taking that right off them ... that's where I see the double standard. "

It's a zero sum game.

What matters more, Durtyav's dad not suffering an awful death, or the potentially correctable grounding of holidays for those who aren't contributing to the end of this global crisis?

Preservation of life is more important than holidays. Sorry, not sorry.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Seriously this is ridiculous.

Look this country is far from some dictatorship lead by some military government.

In general people do whatever the fuck they like, we have freedom that some countries can only dream of.

Mostly people live extremely comfortable lives with all the mod cons.

But just because it's suggested that a life saving vaccine may be compulsory people are comparing this government to a nazi regime.

Bloody ridiculous.

I'm leaving this thread before I say something I will regret.

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"That's not a double standard. My dad has a right to life.

Your holiday isn't essential.

People who choose not to get vaccinated are making their own choices, My dad would be having the choice made for him.

It's all about personal consent. Are you saying that's not important?

Making their own choices... it would everyones choice to go on holiday ... you are taking that right off them ... that's where I see the double standard. "

No that's a choice they would make. Many people choose to holiday in the UK

I have far too much love for my dad to put him at risk and I'd hate to be the cause of anyone dying

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By *iker boy 69Man
over a year ago

midlands


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been around

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolutely not. While being completely pro-vaccine, I am also very much pro-civil liberty.

The precedent that this would set would have the potential to cause far more immeasurable damage.

Kinda like vitriolic filth spouted on the internet. I disagree with a lot of the hateful crap people come out with, nevertheless I would always defend their right to say it. Besides, I prefer racists, bigots and mysoginists et al out in the open where I can see them.

Well said! "

Yes well done too many sheep out there got to stand up to our free rights

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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago

Up on them there hills


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

what are you proposing as a punishment for this new crime?

Maybe fatal injection "

You mean like in Denmark?

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Im up for that and whilst they are at it make it mandatory to have anti cancer injections, or anti stroke injections or anti heart attack injections,

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

No, or we would have to make all immunisations illegal.

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley

The virus didn't effect the economy the monkeys in government created that on the economy

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I'm leaving this thread now as it's astounding me how selfish and entitled some people can be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How can you sugest that we live in a free country that our farthers and grandfathers fought for if you made it law thats a violation of human rights plus if you have jab Surely ylu can't catch it anyway Or Dont You Trust It

Grand parents surely ..... the winning of rights is not a male only activity "

Sorry yes i agree forgive me

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By *ny1localMan
over a year ago

READING


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been around"
why is ridiculous? What's ridiculous about trying to stop potentially killing people? Maybe you disagree that it's illegal to carry knives and guns, even if you might end up killing someone with them.

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By *ackandtheunicornCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been aroundwhy is ridiculous? What's ridiculous about trying to stop potentially killing people? Maybe you disagree that it's illegal to carry knives and guns, even if you might end up killing someone with them. "

Because being forced to put something potentially toxic or dangerous in your body against your will is wrong. We should always have the right to choose what goes onto our bodies.

Lots of things kill people, we dont make it illegal to eat mcdonalds (which probably kills a large chunk of people). Nor should we make it illegal to not have the vaccine.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

For everyone going on about how insane an idea this is and will never be implemented, think back to January 2020 and what you would have said if a post would have been written saying that tens of millions of people in this country would be told it would be against the rules for them to leave their homes? What would you have said back then if you were told that millions of people would be deprived of their freedom to go out and mix and have a normal life?

Circumstances change and the unthinkable of today becomes the reality of tomorrow.

I'm sure everyone is as sick of this non-living as I am, but with scenes like the other day when large crowds gathered for a memorial service just demonstrating how large numbers of people are ignoring the rules, it's time for a firmer hand in this matter for the greater good.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been around"

If someone close to you is rushed into hospital and dies a horrible death alone because of Covid 19 let's see how stupid you still feel it is.

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By *ik MMan
over a year ago

Lancashire


"For everyone going on about how insane an idea this is and will never be implemented, think back to January 2020 and what you would have said if a post would have been written saying that tens of millions of people in this country would be told it would be against the rules for them to leave their homes? What would you have said back then if you were told that millions of people would be deprived of their freedom to go out and mix and have a normal life?

Circumstances change and the unthinkable of today becomes the reality of tomorrow.

I'm sure everyone is as sick of this non-living as I am, but with scenes like the other day when large crowds gathered for a memorial service just demonstrating how large numbers of people are ignoring the rules, it's time for a firmer hand in this matter for the greater good."

Für das Größere Wohl - remind me of the origins of that phrase please

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

No course not people have to have choice x

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By *rank speakerMan
over a year ago

Worcester


"No. But “re-education” camps should be set up for those that have watched one too many Hollywood movie and have convinced themselves that “the vaccine will kill millions” and are busy trying hard to convince others."

Now we're treading into really dangerous territory here. I think the Chinese and formerly Russian governments were very keen on this sort of approach? And I don't think we really want to head in this direction?

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

People should always have the choice to refuse the vaccine( I’ve had my jab already).

But private companies and individual businesses have a perfect right of discretion as to whom they allow on their premises and if they choose not to do business with those who don’t have the vaccine by choice ( not medical reason) then those people shouldn’t complain.

They have exercised their right of choice and shouldn’t complain when others reciprocate and exercise their right of choice.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"
Possibly yes but we have to many people against proper government and are very selfish

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"People should always have the choice to refuse the vaccine( I’ve had my jab already).

But private companies and individual businesses have a perfect right of discretion as to whom they allow on their premises and if they choose not to do business with those who don’t have the vaccine by choice ( not medical reason) then those people shouldn’t complain.

They have exercised their right of choice and shouldn’t complain when others reciprocate and exercise their right of choice. "

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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago

in the sticks

Imagine having a choice in a democratic country ...

If you want the vaccine, then fine, don't give up the day job Karen

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By *acky RacersCouple
over a year ago

Lincoln


"People should always have the choice to refuse the vaccine( I’ve had my jab already).

But private companies and individual businesses have a perfect right of discretion as to whom they allow on their premises and if they choose not to do business with those who don’t have the vaccine by choice ( not medical reason) then those people shouldn’t complain.

They have exercised their right of choice and shouldn’t complain when others reciprocate and exercise their right of choice. "

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

as a customer i dont want to be on the bus in the cafe on the plane or have a trades person breathing their death germs in my air, thats my democratic choice!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Criminalising people is not the way forward but respecting the rights of others is important.

This also means that if my choice is a more hazardous path I should not put others in danger from my actions or expect them to pay for any consequences from my choice.

I may choose to smoke but I have no right to inflict the smoke on others who choose not to. Similarly, I may choose not to have the vaccine with the higher risk I may get infected and be asymptomatic. But then I must take other measures avoid the risk of passing it on to others. Choices have consequences for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the issue is this...

Having the vaccine is good for me personally but like other vaccines it's not 100%. So people that don't have it could still infect others.

That puts my elderly dad at risk so I am very much of the opinion that if you aren't vaccinated then you should be restricted on where you can go as you put my dad at risk.

Not personal but its my opinion xx"

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By *ustfun009Man
over a year ago

oxford

If you have the vacine and are safe...why do you care about the ones who dont?

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"How can you sugest that we live in a free country that our farthers and grandfathers fought for if you made it law thats a violation of human rights plus if you have jab Surely ylu can't catch it anyway Or Dont You Trust It

Grand parents surely ..... the winning of rights is not a male only activity

Sorry yes i agree forgive me "

Missed the point of ‘you can’t catch it anyway’..please check out the vaccine, what is is meant to do & how.

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By *ucidityWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

No

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

Definitely not! This is totally wrong. Don't you people ever think these things through and the consequences of these actions.

Forced medical treatments were made illegal after WW2 for good reason.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

People are refusing to wear a face mask as it's against their "civil rights" so good luck with that!

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Stayed off the Virus forum tor a while cos quite frankly it is completely toxic and tribalist. I see nothing changes.

Should it be illegal to refuse - ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Should people be encouraged with facts and reassured by knowing there will be adequate compensation* if it goes wrong in future - absolutely yes (but ONLY because there is now growing evidence the vaccines also reduce transmission)

*check out the Govt cap on compensation (big pharma made exempt from being sued). Not much over a lifetime - doesn’t shout “we are extremely confident nobody will ever need compensation as totally safe” does it!

I remain astounded by how willing people are to give up hard fought for civil and human rights. Nothing like a national emergency to extend the powers of the state and specifically the executive.

This govt is carrying out a huge long term social norming experiment - to understand how far they can push things before people say stop. The policing bill is an example.

You don’t remove democracy overnight in a violent coup. You gradual erode and remove rights with small changes people don’t get as animated about. This started under Cameron under the guise of austerity and things like the removal of legal aid.

We should not look at any action/policy/ legislation in isolation. There is a pattern and it is to the detriment of normal (poorer) people.

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By *mmixtapeCouple
over a year ago

middle earth

Ah yes, let's take away people's bolity autonomy and force them to have a vaccine.

My body my choice

(Pro vaccine)

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By *atandasmileMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"If you have the vacine and are safe...why do you care about the ones who dont?"

Because the ones who don't can act as vectors to carry the virus to others, some of whom could not have the vaccine and some of whom will turn out not to be protected (none of the vaccines are 100% effective).

For the record, I am against forced vaccination (though I will take it when offered). But I can see the argument. It's a classic case of individual rights vs the collective good.

So far in the UK it looks like we won't have to worry about such a thing because a high enough percentage of people are taking up the offer of a vaccine voluntarily. We'll see if that continues when we move down to younger age groups where the main motivation changes from protecting yourself to protecting others.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been around

If someone close to you is rushed into hospital and dies a horrible death alone because of Covid 19 let's see how stupid you still feel it is."

to reiterate on the questions you have refused to answer, what is the punishment for this new crime?

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I don't think people should be forced to have something put in their body that they don't want for, whatever the reasons that they feel they want to abstain.

If they then don't have access to some places that vaccinated people have then so be it, they can weigh up their choices individually, but forcing them they have something placed inside their body just can not feel right to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

If all goes well then all restrictions are taken away in june? Does that mean everyone would of had the opportunity to get the vaccine?

If thats the case shouldn't we have the right to refuse it as you'd only ever pass the virus to others who haven't taken vaccine.

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By *eavo93Man
over a year ago

waterlooville

I wonder if they do research into how many people died after 30 days of taking vaccine and put cause of death as vaccine . Or did that work one way . Its all about money. Governments don't care about human life. Its been proven time and time again all over the world.people in power withholding information and lieing to the world for selfish reason. one day me may all stop arguing about every petty topic and stop putting all contaminants into our bodys .. or maybe it gets worse and we inject ourselves so much that over time our body won't be able to fight any virus without first having a taste of the vaccine .. at that point we will proberly start trying to make some human animal hybrids because if your 100 percent human the new ever changing viruses will kill us easily .. yeah you read this and think I'm crazy .. but oh well eventually all the sheep that follow will realise its better to be a wolf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think its about peoples free will to make that choice,

Think its more of a moral based decision for all to make...

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts


"I wonder if they do research into how many people died after 30 days of taking vaccine and put cause of death as vaccine . Or did that work one way . Its all about money. Governments don't care about human life. Its been proven time and time again all over the world.people in power withholding information and lieing to the world for selfish reason. one day me may all stop arguing about every petty topic and stop putting all contaminants into our bodys .. or maybe it gets worse and we inject ourselves so much that over time our body won't be able to fight any virus without first having a taste of the vaccine .. at that point we will proberly start trying to make some human animal hybrids because if your 100 percent human the new ever changing viruses will kill us easily .. yeah you read this and think I'm crazy .. but oh well eventually all the sheep that follow will realise its better to be a wolf "

cheep cheep cheep, rocking robin cheep cheep..... sorry, slipped out lol

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"I wonder if they do research into how many people died after 30 days of taking vaccine and put cause of death as vaccine . Or did that work one way . Its all about money. Governments don't care about human life. Its been proven time and time again all over the world.people in power withholding information and lieing to the world for selfish reason. one day me may all stop arguing about every petty topic and stop putting all contaminants into our bodys .. or maybe it gets worse and we inject ourselves so much that over time our body won't be able to fight any virus without first having a taste of the vaccine .. at that point we will proberly start trying to make some human animal hybrids because if your 100 percent human the new ever changing viruses will kill us easily .. yeah you read this and think I'm crazy .. but oh well eventually all the sheep that follow will realise its better to be a wolf "

Paranoid much!

To be honest I'm getting sick and fucking tired of this "sheep"

Comments.

But if you guys see yourselves as wolves crack on being an individual.... Following all the other Conspiracy theorists, yup very individual and right on

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By *aussageMan
over a year ago

Stalbridge


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

According to official figures the covid vaccines have so far lead to the death of 200+ people and injured over a quarter of a million people. So no please fuck off with this bullshit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No..

Most vaccines take years of testing to get approved. These have been rushed through so how are we supposed to trust fat cat company's who say our vaccine is the best etc.

Just my view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. Morally bankrupt to suggest it for me.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

According to official figures the covid vaccines have so far lead to the death of 200+ people and injured over a quarter of a million people. So no please fuck off with this bullshit."

Show these official figures please links to the actual evidence.

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By *aussageMan
over a year ago

Stalbridge

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968413/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2_.pdf

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By *eardsandboobsCouple
over a year ago

north of lincoln


"https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968413/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2_.pdf"

That is the number (227) of people that have died after having the vaccine, not because of it . Two very very different things.

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

According to official figures the covid vaccines have so far lead to the death of 200+ people and injured over a quarter of a million people. So no please fuck off with this bullshit."

Is there a source please?

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

If all goes well then all restrictions are taken away in june? Does that mean everyone would of had the opportunity to get the vaccine?

If thats the case shouldn't we have the right to refuse it as you'd only ever pass the virus to others who haven't taken vaccine."

by June I think by doing almost everybody will have been offered it, I think they are saying by July it will have been offered to everybody

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

If all goes well then all restrictions are taken away in june? Does that mean everyone would of had the opportunity to get the vaccine?

If thats the case shouldn't we have the right to refuse it as you'd only ever pass the virus to others who haven't taken vaccine.

by June I think by doing almost everybody will have been offered it, I think they are saying by July it will have been offered to everybody"

Okay Thanks. So as long as the people who want to be protected get the opportunity to protect themselves before we remove all restrictions then i think it should be personal choice to receive the vaccine. Crazy situation we find ourselves in.

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

york

Not sure I would go that far... The Human Rights Act would be breached if we did... However the

Human Rights does not cover State Security or Health. This means that if a individual's human rights affects another persons health or security then the Human Rights Act does not apply as it breaches other peoples human rights.

In other words a person does not the right to move through the community with a disease and claim human rights as they could be making others ill.

Huuman rights can be a two edged sword. Technically those that spread the condition knowingly could be prosecuted under the Human Rights Act.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

my nan had the vaccine and was then hit by a bus, that proves it makes you unaware of buses lol singing in the tree tops all day long, rocking robin cheep cheep rocking robin...

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Playing devils advocate here for sake of a discussion/debate...

1. In a normal year approx 10,000 people die of Flu in UK.

2. Now and then we have a “bad Flu year” and many more die. I believe we had one in 2015/16 (certainly in last few years) and over 50,000 died.

Was this widely reported? No! I can’t even remember which year it was.

The point is our society has determined what an acceptable mortality rate is and clearly 50k wasn’t enough to cause a fuss!

No calls for mandatory Flu vaccines then!

So that begs the question regarding what is acceptable in a post Covid UK?

By the summer ALL vulnerable groups will have had 2nd jabs significantly reducing the likelihood of serious illness or death in those groups and massively reducing pressure on NHS.

So if those at risk have c.95% protection and all those choosing to have vaccine also have c.95% protection - then why should hesitant (or even anti vaxxers) be forced to have it?

Are we saying the only way out is Zero risk? Nothing in life is zero risk!

As I say - playing devils advocate here.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Playing devils advocate here for sake of a discussion/debate...

1. In a normal year approx 10,000 people die of Flu in UK.

2. Now and then we have a “bad Flu year” and many more die. I believe we had one in 2015/16 (certainly in last few years) and over 50,000 died.

Was this widely reported? No! I can’t even remember which year it was.

The point is our society has determined what an acceptable mortality rate is and clearly 50k wasn’t enough to cause a fuss!

No calls for mandatory Flu vaccines then!

So that begs the question regarding what is acceptable in a post Covid UK?

By the summer ALL vulnerable groups will have had 2nd jabs significantly reducing the likelihood of serious illness or death in those groups and massively reducing pressure on NHS.

So if those at risk have c.95% protection and all those choosing to have vaccine also have c.95% protection - then why should hesitant (or even anti vaxxers) be forced to have it?

Are we saying the only way out is Zero risk? Nothing in life is zero risk!

As I say - playing devils advocate here."

It's a good point. What's an acceptable level of death?

It's something I've been privately contemplating

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Some people would say the death rate (from treatable disease) should be zero.

But clearly UK society as a whole has never demanded zero as the Flu figures and non reaction to them show. People do accept a level of (arguably avoidable) death in the UK.

So has Covid genuinely changed this viewpoint?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Playing devils advocate here for sake of a discussion/debate...

1. In a normal year approx 10,000 people die of Flu in UK.

2. Now and then we have a “bad Flu year” and many more die. I believe we had one in 2015/16 (certainly in last few years) and over 50,000 died.

Was this widely reported? No! I can’t even remember which year it was.

The point is our society has determined what an acceptable mortality rate is and clearly 50k wasn’t enough to cause a fuss!

No calls for mandatory Flu vaccines then!

So that begs the question regarding what is acceptable in a post Covid UK?

By the summer ALL vulnerable groups will have had 2nd jabs significantly reducing the likelihood of serious illness or death in those groups and massively reducing pressure on NHS.

So if those at risk have c.95% protection and all those choosing to have vaccine also have c.95% protection - then why should hesitant (or even anti vaxxers) be forced to have it?

Are we saying the only way out is Zero risk? Nothing in life is zero risk!

As I say - playing devils advocate here."

Agree! Anyone else noticed there's been no reported flu deaths this winter?? There's normally something said about the amount compared to the previous year

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

bann it all, the state knows best, 1984 anyone

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Hmm no Flu deaths reported. I suspect that could be down to:

1. The vulnerable people who may have died of Flu have died of Covid as it got there first and is worse?

2. May not have been a “bad Flu year this winter anyway?

3. Death certificates are going with Covid (and stats are dying within 28 days of positive test not actually died OF Covid but have recently had Covid*)

*not saying that to belittle the loss, pain etc or even question Covid death rate, just stating a fact.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Some people would say the death rate (from treatable disease) should be zero.

But clearly UK society as a whole has never demanded zero as the Flu figures and non reaction to them show. People do accept a level of (arguably avoidable) death in the UK.

So has Covid genuinely changed this viewpoint?"

I think temporarily, yes. I imagine it'll shift back once we feel we've got the situation under control. That is, the deaths (and serious morbidity, although that seems less present) are at a societally acceptable level (whatever that is) without societal disruption.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MAke what you want of this, just sharing the info. I think its relevant. It basically says in october 2020 there were only 8 more deaths than in october 2019..

just google - october 2019 to october 2020 deaths. its on the ONS website

Have i read it wrong or what?

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Some people would say the death rate (from treatable disease) should be zero.

But clearly UK society as a whole has never demanded zero as the Flu figures and non reaction to them show. People do accept a level of (arguably avoidable) death in the UK.

So has Covid genuinely changed this viewpoint?

I think temporarily, yes. I imagine it'll shift back once we feel we've got the situation under control. That is, the deaths (and serious morbidity, although that seems less present) are at a societally acceptable level (whatever that is) without societal disruption."

I am going to (dangerously) generalise but I think UK society is pretty selfish. We (royal we) come out with or moral indignation on topics, but reality is for most, if it doesn’t impact them directly then they are bothered enough to actually do something to effect change.

Could also be a generational thing:

Boomers* basically pillaged the Earth of natural resources convinced economic growth was possible in perpetuity.

Gen X* in UK grew up in Thatchers Britain believing greed is good and “I/me” is more important than “we/us”.

Millennials* are like “damn dude the world is collapsing do something” or “who gives a @@@@ all getting scr’d by the man anyway”.

Post Millennials* are like “thanks you a holes, thanks a bunch for what you are leaving us!”

*not all, good and bad in every generation

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here


"Hmm no Flu deaths reported. I suspect that could be down to:

1. The vulnerable people who may have died of Flu have died of Covid as it got there first and is worse?

2. May not have been a “bad Flu year this winter anyway?

3. Death certificates are going with Covid (and stats are dying within 28 days of positive test not actually died OF Covid but have recently had Covid*)

*not saying that to belittle the loss, pain etc or even question Covid death rate, just stating a fact."

The deaths due to flu and pneumonia are recorded each week on the ONS website. From week ending 8 Jan to week ending 5 March there have been approximately 39K deaths where there is any mention on the death certificate and approximately 2600 where it’s the underlying cause.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Grrr typos “aren’t bothered enough”

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Some people would say the death rate (from treatable disease) should be zero.

But clearly UK society as a whole has never demanded zero as the Flu figures and non reaction to them show. People do accept a level of (arguably avoidable) death in the UK.

So has Covid genuinely changed this viewpoint?

I think temporarily, yes. I imagine it'll shift back once we feel we've got the situation under control. That is, the deaths (and serious morbidity, although that seems less present) are at a societally acceptable level (whatever that is) without societal disruption.

I am going to (dangerously) generalise but I think UK society is pretty selfish. We (royal we) come out with or moral indignation on topics, but reality is for most, if it doesn’t impact them directly then they are bothered enough to actually do something to effect change.

Could also be a generational thing:

Boomers* basically pillaged the Earth of natural resources convinced economic growth was possible in perpetuity.

Gen X* in UK grew up in Thatchers Britain believing greed is good and “I/me” is more important than “we/us”.

Millennials* are like “damn dude the world is collapsing do something” or “who gives a @@@@ all getting scr’d by the man anyway”.

Post Millennials* are like “thanks you a holes, thanks a bunch for what you are leaving us!”

*not all, good and bad in every generation "

I'm going to plead foreign, here

And I think "what's an acceptable risk of death" is going to be an international problem

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Hmm no Flu deaths reported. I suspect that could be down to:

1. The vulnerable people who may have died of Flu have died of Covid as it got there first and is worse?

2. May not have been a “bad Flu year this winter anyway?

3. Death certificates are going with Covid (and stats are dying within 28 days of positive test not actually died OF Covid but have recently had Covid*)

*not saying that to belittle the loss, pain etc or even question Covid death rate, just stating a fact.

The deaths due to flu and pneumonia are recorded each week on the ONS website. From week ending 8 Jan to week ending 5 March there have been approximately 39K deaths where there is any mention on the death certificate and approximately 2600 where it’s the underlying cause."

Thanks. So way down on a normal year?

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here


"MAke what you want of this, just sharing the info. I think its relevant. It basically says in october 2020 there were only 8 more deaths than in october 2019..

just google - october 2019 to october 2020 deaths. its on the ONS website

Have i read it wrong or what? "

No, you are correct in what you state but there was a 6K increase in November 2020 over 2019 and a 77K increase in the year overall.

Taking one month in isolation can easily distort the overall statistics

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

@_naswingdress

Yep an international moral dilemma. I wonder what the disparity will be between countries? It will be interesting to make the comparison as to what each society deems acceptable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Might be ambitious when we can't or won't stop oiks shopping in Tesco or Lidl without nasks even.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?"

I am all for people having vaccine. But illegal. No. Rather those refusing the vaccine get turned away from restaurants, pubs or airports..as they putting others at risk.

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By *eerobCouple
over a year ago

solihull

I dont think it should be forced on anyone ..however if you opt out of having the jab you should not be allowed hospital treatment if you catch it.

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By *iker boy 69Man
over a year ago

midlands


"With the virus causing the deaths of so many people, untold misery to millions and immeasurable damage to the economy.

Is it time to make it illegal to refuse to be vaccinated against Covid 19?

Thats got to be the most ridiculous thing ive heard on the subject in the year its been aroundwhy is ridiculous? What's ridiculous about trying to stop potentially killing people? Maybe you disagree that it's illegal to carry knives and guns, even if you might end up killing someone with them. "

People have a right to say what goes in or not of their body. Being forced is a total violation, and for those who have had the jab then in a lot their worlds they have nothing to worry about. Im having mine when they get to it ny the way, but if someone doesnt want it, what you going to do.. fine them, jail them or what.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Then again I thought I had the right to date whenever I wanted. I will continue to lose that and many more freedoms until covid is under control and I believe vaccines are the best path to this.

Its not a simple matter - we are a society and our choices impact everyone.

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

To slightly change the human rights angle, I find it surprising how many people are suddenly aware of & prepared to protest about erosion of civil liberties, someone said it started with Cameron...not even close, in my lifetime I recall the miners strike & the police being used as a paramilitary force, movements restricted in mining areas,the anti terrorism laws to ‘combat’ the IRA, updated & extended on the nod with little debate, the poll tax riots & changes to policing etc etc, we have passively allowed these & so much more..what is different now? I acknowledge the role of the internet but so much more political awareness surprises & occasionally pleases me. Oh & no to compulsory vaccines, should always be by reasoned consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"MAke what you want of this, just sharing the info. I think its relevant. It basically says in october 2020 there were only 8 more deaths than in october 2019..

just google - october 2019 to october 2020 deaths. its on the ONS website

Have i read it wrong or what?

No, you are correct in what you state but there was a 6K increase in November 2020 over 2019 and a 77K increase in the year overall.

Taking one month in isolation can easily distort the overall statistics "

Thanks man. So much info to intake online and through media. I suppose we choose what we want to read/hear...And we make of it what we want. Difficult times!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"To slightly change the human rights angle, I find it surprising how many people are suddenly aware of & prepared to protest about erosion of civil liberties, someone said it started with Cameron...not even close, in my lifetime I recall the miners strike & the police being used as a paramilitary force, movements restricted in mining areas,the anti terrorism laws to ‘combat’ the IRA, updated & extended on the nod with little debate, the poll tax riots & changes to policing etc etc, we have passively allowed these & so much more..what is different now? I acknowledge the role of the internet but so much more political awareness surprises & occasionally pleases me. Oh & no to compulsory vaccines, should always be by reasoned consent."

There's a new bill going through Parliament which might curtail the right to protest

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"@_naswingdress

Yep an international moral dilemma. I wonder what the disparity will be between countries? It will be interesting to make the comparison as to what each society deems acceptable."

For sure.

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here


"Hmm no Flu deaths reported. I suspect that could be down to:

1. The vulnerable people who may have died of Flu have died of Covid as it got there first and is worse?

2. May not have been a “bad Flu year this winter anyway?

3. Death certificates are going with Covid (and stats are dying within 28 days of positive test not actually died OF Covid but have recently had Covid*)

*not saying that to belittle the loss, pain etc or even question Covid death rate, just stating a fact.

The deaths due to flu and pneumonia are recorded each week on the ONS website. From week ending 8 Jan to week ending 5 March there have been approximately 39K deaths where there is any mention on the death certificate and approximately 2600 where it’s the underlying cause.

Thanks. So way down on a normal year?"

From the Fullfact.org website

If we want to use the ONS figures, we know there were 394 flu deaths registered on death certificates between January and August this year in England and Wales. Official data shows this is considerably less than in 2019 (1,213 deaths) and 2018 (1,596 deaths), but it is higher than in 2014 (118 deaths) and 2015 (282 deaths).

Official data shows the number of deaths where pneumonia was the underlying cause has been consistently below 30,000 every year between 2014 and 2019 in England and Wales, ranging from 25,419 to 29,847.

The ONS has said there were 13,619 deaths caused by pneumonia between January and August 2020. As 2020 is not yet over, we do not have final figures for pneumonia deaths this year. It is likely to increase significantly, especially as many are likely to occur in the winter.

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By *r nobody59Man
over a year ago

cardiff

Totally agree. If you refuse the vaccine you should be refused help if you get covid

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"To slightly change the human rights angle, I find it surprising how many people are suddenly aware of & prepared to protest about erosion of civil liberties, someone said it started with Cameron...not even close, in my lifetime I recall the miners strike & the police being used as a paramilitary force, movements restricted in mining areas,the anti terrorism laws to ‘combat’ the IRA, updated & extended on the nod with little debate, the poll tax riots & changes to policing etc etc, we have passively allowed these & so much more..what is different now? I acknowledge the role of the internet but so much more political awareness surprises & occasionally pleases me. Oh & no to compulsory vaccines, should always be by reasoned consent."

That was me and you are quite right it didn’t “start with Cameron” but I was referring to the continuity with the current Govt. A process excused by “austerity”.

While I am not remotely fond of Thatcher (was too young anyway) it is pretty clear this current lot in charge bear few real policy similarities. Thatcher would never have gone as far!

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton


"Totally agree. If you refuse the vaccine you should be refused help if you get covid"

So when will you advocate people who smoke being refused cancer treatment on NHS?

People who drink having treatment for liver disease?

People with bad diets refused treatment for diabetes or obesity?

Dangerous drivers refused A&E after accident?

Where do you draw the line and why is that line where you put it?

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By *nsatiable NurseWoman
over a year ago

Brighton

[Removed by poster at 16/03/21 13:05:46]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

For all those banging on about human rights, what about my human right to go to the pub and get off my head on alcohol and then take a 70mph drive through a built up area, hey it's my human right to drive fast if I want to. And then how about my human right to go on an intensive care unit and smoke a pack of 20 cigarettes. And then I think I will exercise my human right to....well you get the picture.

I find that a lot of selfish, inconsiderate and just downright criminally minded individuals hide behind human rights. People are refusing to get vaccinated for just uninformed and stupid reasons so for anyone choosing not to get vaccinated there should be repercussions.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood


"Totally agree. If you refuse the vaccine you should be refused help if you get covid"
can these peeps opt out of national insurence? I meen if you want them to not get treatment it would be a bit unfair to expect them to fund the nhs if they cant use it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Totally agree. If you refuse the vaccine you should be refused help if you get covid

So when will you advocate people who smoke being refused cancer treatment on NHS?

People who drink having treatment for liver disease?

People with bad diets refused treatment for diabetes or obesity?

Dangerous drivers refused A&E after accident?

Where do you draw the line and why is that line where you put it? "

i dont agree with refusing treatment but i guess for some the line is what is contagious and what is not , where did you put yourself wt risk and where did you put others maybe

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood


"I dont think it should be forced on anyone ..however if you opt out of having the jab you should not be allowed hospital treatment if you catch it."

Leave them to die in the carpark mabey?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes definitely

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By *eicsbimaleMan
over a year ago

loughborough

If they don't want a vaccine that's fine, but they can't go to pubs, cinemas, clubs why should I run the risk of possible infection just because they are scared to have a jab

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I dont think it should be forced on anyone ..however if you opt out of having the jab you should not be allowed hospital treatment if you catch it.

Leave them to die in the carpark mabey?"

Health care is a human right and I don't think should be removed from anyone for any reason (other than, say, if someone attacked healthcare workers. And then - you can have treatment if you stop hurting the people trying to treat you)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I believe that ultimately everyone will need to be vaccinated. We need to get back to normal.

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