FabSwingers.com forum: Schools and testing

By *ackformore100 OP Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Morning experts,

As the return approaches we have a bit more clarity of how the testing is to be done and the timetable. That's great and after the first few weeks we will have a better understanding of how the virus exists in our kids or otherwise. All good stuff.

Can anyone with better information help though with this. How accurate are the lft tests? According to full fact they are 99.7% accurate for positives. I. E. Pretty much zero false positives. But 77% accurate for false negatives. Ie 1 in every 4 positive tests will be shown as a negative. Now if that's the case... Fine its not the worst, but I just wondered if some of our resident epidemiologists had better information?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

Not an expert, all I know is if they test positive from an lft test, they then need to do a PCR test to confirm the positive result, that is what is happening with us anyway.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ackformore100 OP Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Not an expert, all I know is if they test positive from an lft test, they then need to do a PCR test to confirm the positive result, that is what is happening with us anyway. "

Yes same here. Its labour intensive but I think a good thing to help get back to more normality.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Not an expert, all I know is if they test positive from an lft test, they then need to do a PCR test to confirm the positive result, that is what is happening with us anyway.

Yes same here. Its labour intensive but I think a good thing to help get back to more normality. "

It is but 10 minutes twice a week for three weeks is small in reality.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

So, a week back for schools in England. How's it going for your little people?

Mine have been tested twice as planned.

Today year 10 split in to two. One half tested this morning, one this afternoon. As the kids were lining up at 3 (Yes 3 ~ when they were about to go home!) some students were sent to a different area. This was because they had mixed with someone who had tested positive 6 hours earlier. I'm quite cross about this and will be emailing the school to see why it took them so bloody long. Meanwhile this positive case has been mixing with God knows how many people

There have been 4 other cases this week over 2 year groups!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

Two tests this week and 100% negative results across the school

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lamourpussyCouple
over a year ago

Warwick

Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Do you look at the number of tests done or just the number of positives.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ackformore100 OP Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Exactly and schools have barely been back for 3 days.... So can't be there. Maybe it's in response to the announced plan 3 weeks ago.... And everyone getting out and about again.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

Nothing like someone without kids giving advice on parenting

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

Maybe you go spend sometime in a current school setting before adding judgment. They are under more restrictions than most adults are experiencing in their daily life.

School isn’t just about text book learning, if it was we wouldn’t need to go to school. It’s about being engaged, getting a student passionate about a subject and more importantly basic human social interaction with peers and elders none of which they can totally learn sat behind a computer or just from their parents.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *j48Man
over a year ago

Wigan

Pretty accurate though even if he hasn't..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

Ignoring the rest, is school just about passing exams? Is the fact exams are cancelled means we just scrap education? What about the futures of those young people? Q

How will they prove their suitability for employment and further study? Or should we just condemn all young people to the scrap heap now?

Adults whinging about young people and not to worry about loss of education etc are saying that with the benefit of their education already in the bag. We all know that once you get to a certain point in your career, it's more about your experience and skills than qualifications. Well, at the start of a career, when experience is limited or nil and they've had no chance to demonstrate their skills professionally, qualifications are everything and we cannot allow a cohort of young people to be disadvantaged for the rest of their lives. The kids 2-3 years behind the current crop of students WILL get a fair crack at education (we hope) so they will have an advantage if we allow today's children to fail.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

You really didn't need to say you didn't have children, it was quite apparent!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism "

An excellent piece of sweeping generalisation, sir. I see a lot of middle aged men driving their cars like utter twats, therefore all middle aged men are twats. Works well, doesn't it?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism "

As it is a bad approach to tar all children with your comments in this statement. Where is the discussion when you clearly have your set point of view of all children

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are 100% right

I see so many kids who have been let down by their parents and schools

I want kids to be well educated so I can employ them

I want them to have a vocabulary of more than 200 words and not speak in text

All this should be addressed in the home and at school it's not rocket science

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry I speak as I see

Perhaps you should open your eyes ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

Because some of us have to work full time at home as well as bloody home school which is near on impossible to do.

Not every school are doing live lessons for every subject and not every kid can just get on with it on there own with no help.

So I’m meant to stop work and set up a stupid science experiment am i or make jam tarts while on the phone with a client?

How about all the kids that have some form of low level disability but it’s not bad enough to get any kind of diagnosis or help. (Because we all know how easy it is to get help these days with everything being cut) It’s their fault they find it hard to concentrate is it.

How about all the disabled kids that have been shut during lockdowns and not open even though they have a ehcp and are classed as vulnerable.

Kids have a right to be in school and Schools should be open.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All this should be addressed in the home and at school it's not rocket science "

But you said the schools shouldn't be opened though?

Not brain surgery is it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"You are 100% right

I see so many kids who have been let down by their parents and schools

I want kids to be well educated so I can employ them

I want them to have a vocabulary of more than 200 words and not speak in text

All this should be addressed in the home and at school it's not rocket science "

Again a sweeping statement. Not denying there are elements of the population that might fit your statement, children and adults alike.

You want schools closed so how do you expect them to learn these skills if their only avenue of learning is from parents, who might themselves not be well educated. If they don’t learn from peers, schools a different way of thinking or even a base subject it will forever be a vicious line of failure.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are 100% right

I see so many kids who have been let down by their parents and schools

I want kids to be well educated so I can employ them

I want them to have a vocabulary of more than 200 words and not speak in text

All this should be addressed in the home and at school it's not rocket science "

You just said schools shouldn’t be open. Make your mind up.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"You are 100% right

I see so many kids who have been let down by their parents and schools

I want kids to be well educated so I can employ them

I want them to have a vocabulary of more than 200 words and not speak in text

All this should be addressed in the home and at school it's not rocket science "

Pray tell me how schools have let children down .... oh please please I’m dying to hear this load of bollocks.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't say I wanted schools closed

I inferred there was no need to open them now

And how about reforming them ?

So that every child reaches their potential

In spite of their background and parenting

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism "

Ahh not a parent not a teacher therefore not a valuable or valid opinion ... as you were.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"I didn't say I wanted schools closed

I inferred there was no need to open them now

And how about reforming them ?

So that every child reaches their potential

In spite of their background and parenting "

So how long would you have them closed for ?

What reforms do you propose ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Where’s the data? None of my sources show a rise in case .. (yet)

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"I didn't say I wanted schools closed

I inferred there was no need to open them now

And how about reforming them ?

So that every child reaches their potential

In spite of their background and parenting "

I agree .... now we have the chance of a lifetime to reshape the current curriculum make it relevant remove pointless tests. Trust teachers to do the jobs we are highly trained to do. OFSTED needs to be completely scrapped and spend the money it costs on schools

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok - the curriculum does nor prepare the for the world of work

If the kid is not academic then there are not many vocational options open

How does 13 weeks holiday prepare kids for work?

You haven't read my first sentance - I see kids who have been let down, who have loads of potential- I can't go into every detail

But I ask why has this happened

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thanks !

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not a parent nor teacher

All I would ask is that the school and the parent produce a kid irrespective of race, religion,or gender,or home circumstance that I can employ,is motivated, polite,and industrious

Not much to ask from a G8 country ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

OP it would be good if you could reply and quite so we know what you are responding to

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ackformore100 OP Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Where’s the data? None of my sources show a rise in case .. (yet) "

On the official govt website... Daily rates have risen last two days. Weekly rates risen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

[Removed by poster at 12/03/21 20:54:21]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Where’s the data? None of my sources show a rise in case .. (yet)

On the official govt website... Daily rates have risen last two days. Weekly rates risen. "

Weekly rates appear to have gone down from what I can see. Daily rates increased for two days but considering the increase in the amount of testing currently being carried out, surely that was to be expected ?

Daily rates

11-93-2021. 2,173

10-03-2021. 5,595

09-03-2021. 6,208

08-03-2021. 6,790

07-03-2021. 4,314

06-03-2021. 4,503

Weekly rates

Column 1 - 7-day period ending

Column 2 - Count of cases

Column 3 - Rate per 100,000 population

Column 4 - Percentage change in 7-day case rate

07-03-2021. 39,645 59.4 -25.6

06-03-2021. 40,077 60 -29

05-03-2021. 40,411 60.5 -32.3

04-03-2021. 41,615 62.3 -34.5

03-03-2021. 43,588 65.3 -35.1

02-03-2021. 46,132 69.1 -34.3

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism "

Just as a slight aside... I’ve spent the past 6 months working alongside some amazing young people recently qualified as nurses, healthcare assistances etc... Their upbringing is from my observations is phenomenal, what they have endured and worked through in truth is quite staggering, many of them have grown up with zero privilege and a relatively tough beginning... there is without doubt more good than bad in their generation.

I hate to say it Sir but your last two posts just paint you as quite a narrow minded individual who’s bitter about the world we live in.

Education has always been massively important, go spend some time in a third world country to see how much value people with close to nothing put on it. I can’t comprehend anyone who’s of the mindset we should sacrifice it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not a parent nor teacher

All I would ask is that the school and the parent produce a kid irrespective of race, religion,or gender,or home circumstance that I can employ,is motivated, polite,and industrious

Not much to ask from a G8 country ? "

Sounds more like a failing in your man management to be honest... employment of juniors is the next stage of people’s individual development. Thousands of employers across the U.K. produce amazing young professionals every year.

If you’re saying you can’t find anyone suitable then I have to say the evidence suggests you are failing where a multitude of others succeed... perhaps look at yourself, your approach before blaming the raw talent you struggle to work with.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism

I hate to say it Sir but your last two posts just paint you as quite a narrow minded individual who’s bitter about the world we live in.

So very well put but some people just don't travel.

I Normaly go to India this time of year and spend time in the slums as I can stand the smell one thing the children like is a toothbrush pound land for a big pack take lots but to them it's like the next step forward. Some in this world have so much they canot see that some love so little.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sadly number of infections is already on its way up by the look of things, makes you wonder how we are ever going to get out of this situation

Where’s the data? None of my sources show a rise in case .. (yet)

On the official govt website... Daily rates have risen last two days. Weekly rates risen.

Daily rates

11-93-2021. 2,173

10-03-2021. 5,595

09-03-2021. 6,208

08-03-2021. 6,790

07-03-2021. 4,314

06-03-2021. 4,503

Weekly rates

Column 1 - 7-day period ending

Column 2 - Count of cases

Column 3 - Rate per 100,000 population

Column 4 - Percentage change in 7-day case rate

07-03-2021. 39,645 59.4 -25.6

06-03-2021. 40,077 60 -29

05-03-2021. 40,411 60.5 -32.3

04-03-2021. 41,615 62.3 -34.5

03-03-2021. 43,588 65.3 -35.1

02-03-2021. 46,132 69.1 -34.3

The current positivity percentage rate is 0.5. Compared to 12.5% on the 1st January.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well fair enough

But as all us non parents see the result of our education system ( either socially, or in the work place and it's pretty dire)

We also see rude, badly behaved kids with a bad attitude in society - who seem to think they can be rude or threatening to adults and pensioners with no consequences

So I say - rather than parents and schools saying you can't pass an opinion because you're not a teacher or parent - you should take a good long look at raising children

It's s bad approach not to engage in constructive criticism

An excellent piece of sweeping generalisation, sir. I see a lot of middle aged men driving their cars like utter twats, therefore all middle aged men are twats. Works well, doesn't it?"

Hang on there, some of those twats ride bikes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rcadian110Couple
over a year ago

Barnsley

School isn't just about book learning, it's social skills and interactions. Making friends and dealing with peer conflicts . This is where the skill for dealing with life are learned. As well as the knowledge passed form the teachers. It's about developing new ways of thinking and learning those from the Non family members around them. This is what kids have been missing out on. This is where the damage will be in years to come. Yes I think going back full force is a risky thing, staggering year groups so that only half to a third go back on any one day seems more sensible. Like year 1 on Monday weds Friday and Thurs Thursday the next and the reverse for year 2 and so on. Blaming parents for struggling as well isn't fair. They sent trained teachers and a lot feel guilty for not having those skills or overcompensate.plus there are those who do actually have to work. It's a fine line and parents are doing their best.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

First, I never said we could not find any young person suitable, we merely come across so many poorly educated and lacking in social skills.

Given my company's state at the moment and turnover I'd say our man management is fine

( it's called teamwork )

Sorry, but when you run a company and take responsibility for its success or failure - I

will listen to your personal vitriol about me

It's nothing to do with my personal approach

We set a target for a potential employee to reach

Sadly those " amazing young professionals" fall short in many cases

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"First, I never said we could not find any young person suitable, we merely come across so many poorly educated and lacking in social skills.

Given my company's state at the moment and turnover I'd say our man management is fine

( it's called teamwork )

Sorry, but when you run a company and take responsibility for its success or failure - I

will listen to your personal vitriol about me

It's nothing to do with my personal approach

We set a target for a potential employee to reach

Sadly those " amazing young professionals" fall short in many cases

I’ve spent 10 years working as a creative director, 6 as a business owner, in both cases I was responsible for the recruitment and progression of young talent which I’ve done a very fine job at thank you very much. My list of past employers includes Farrow & Ball and Conde Nast which I think have a fairly decent reputation as international businesses.

Your statements appear to be that of a ridiculously judgemental and closed minded gentleman with a very negative outlook. The point I make is very simple, If I was a young talented individual looking for a mentor to progress my life, you Sir, wouldn’t make the shortlist.

Your entire dialogue is a corporate take on a bad workman blaming his tools. If you are a skilled Business owner as you claim, perhaps use the art of reflection to read back through your various posts on here and gauge what level of positive reaction you gained. I’d say you bombed to be honest.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We set a target for a potential employee to reach

Sadly those " amazing young professionals" fall short in many cases

This is the interesting point...

You recruit, they fail to deliver, hence your view is this generation is rubbish... a typical “those millennials are useless” argument.

Any leading company in the world is packed full of young faces, many of them are key to their success.

So actually, the obvious areas to scrutinise are your recruitment procedure, your offering, your training, your man management.

The only consistent pattern here is by your own statement young people failing to meet your targets under your charge.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I repeat for clarity

I never said we do not recruit young people or school leavers

We set a standard and recruit from the general population - not solely privileged graduates -

My point is that so many fail basic literacy and maths tests we set - which I think is not unreasonable for a company to test potential employees

The failure rate speaks for itself

It's nothing personal - it's business

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I repeat for clarity

I never said we do not recruit young people or school leavers

We set a standard and recruit from the general population - not solely privileged graduates -

My point is that so many fail basic literacy and maths tests we set - which I think is not unreasonable for a company to test potential employees

The failure rate speaks for itself

It's nothing personal - it's business "

You illustrate the point again... you’re process and positions are consistently delivering poor results. It would seem for whatever reason choice candidates aren’t interested in your recruitment, it’s not an issue throughout businesses in general. Congratulations on your failure.

Maths and literacy skills are at an all time high these days, education standards have risen from generation to generation, your argument is ridiculous. How many degree graduates are there annually compared to 30 years ago?

Yes as ever there are people with hard upbringings with little education but don’t cast them as useless. I’ve met plenty in the army, plenty working as porters and cleaners in our ICU and they are fucking amazing people and vital within society.

As others have said, it’s obvious you’re not a parent, I’d go as far as to say you just lack an understanding of the younger generation full stop.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How does 13 weeks holiday prepare kids for work?

Fucking seriously?? Are you a troll, a Victorian mill owner, a coal mine owner or just have no grasp on reality?

They are kids, what's do you want them to do a 5 day 9-5 working week with 20 days holiday a year?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ackformore100 OP Man
over a year ago

Tin town

How does 13 weeks holiday prepare kids for work?

Fucking seriously?? Are you a troll, a Victorian mill owner, a coal mine owner or just have no grasp on reality?

They are kids, what's do you want them to do a 5 day 9-5 working week with 20 days holiday a year?"

That made me chuckle... Oliver twist was on earlier too...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How does 13 weeks holiday prepare kids for work?

Fucking seriously?? Are you a troll, a Victorian mill owner, a coal mine owner or just have no grasp on reality?

They are kids, what's do you want them to do a 5 day 9-5 working week with 20 days holiday a year?"

Fear not, the ghost of Christmas future will mend his heart in good time x

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

The six week school holidays have been a thing since forever. Anyone under the age of about 130 had a six week summer holiday because, and I quote "the current school system was developed over the course of the 19th century."

Perhaps the gent complaining about the six week summer holiday for schools has forgotten his own childhood? Or perhaps he is simply older than the maximum age Fab allows to be entered? Who knows?

Article title: A Brief History of The English Summer Holiday

Website name: Oxford Royale Academy

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

"The six week school holidays have been a thing since forever. Anyone under the age of about 130 had a six week summer holiday because, and I quote "the current school system was developed over the course of the 19th century."

Perhaps the gent complaining about the six week summer holiday for schools has forgotten his own childhood? Or perhaps he is simply older than the maximum age Fab allows to be entered? Who knows?

Article title: A Brief History of The English Summer Holiday

Website name: Oxford Royale Academy"

Wasn't the 6 week summer holiday so children could help with the harvest?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"Ok - the curriculum does nor prepare the for the world of work

If the kid is not academic then there are not many vocational options open

How does 13 weeks holiday prepare kids for work?

You haven't read my first sentance - I see kids who have been let down, who have loads of potential- I can't go into every detail

But I ask why has this happened"

HHaha really is a 6 year olds goal in life is for us teachers to prepare them for work? Sorry my mistake I assumed it was to nurture their self confidence and ability to learn in addition to more formal subjects.

Actually why do they go to bed early and not shave or pay bills what kind of preparation for adulthood is their parents cooking for them and reading them bedtime stories ... pppfft

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

Have you even though about the fact that every single profession under the sun is catered for at school? In my class I have future nurses, carers, teachers, salespeople, web designers the list is endless I’m not churning out specimens for you to knock back I’m creating people that thrive in all areas of life. Clearly something that was lacking in previous generations.

You’d also be interested to learn that a lot of my time is spent feeding children and finding them warm clothes ... ten years of Tory austerity has really taken a toll on kids.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Perhaps the gent complaining about the six week summer holiday for schools has forgotten his own childhood? Or perhaps he is simply older than the maximum age Fab allows to be entered? Who knows?

Article title: A Brief History of The English Summer Holiday

Website name: Oxford Royale Academy

Wasn't the 6 week summer holiday so children could help with the harvest?"

Yes school holidays were set to the agricultural calendar so kids could help with lambing and harvests etc

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *RnMrsFreakCouple
over a year ago

Hull,England

We know it's a hard question, but how can you test for something that hasn't been isolated.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We know it's a hard question, but how can you test for something that hasn't been isolated. "

Boring. SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated many times. Google search of decent sources will confirm. Next conspiracy theory please!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Have you even though about the fact that every single profession under the sun is catered for at school? In my class I have future nurses, carers, teachers, salespeople, web designers the list is endless I’m not churning out specimens for you to knock back I’m creating people that thrive in all areas of life. Clearly something that was lacking in previous generations.

You’d also be interested to learn that a lot of my time is spent feeding children and finding them warm clothes ... ten years of Tory austerity has really taken a toll on kids. "

You know very well that we education professionals are supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and masters of everything? Every failing in a young life can be definitively traced back to teachers. Every. Single. Thing. Our fault.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't forget it's your responsibility illy to fix them all as well

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

I agree with this secondary near me had a few positives apparently one left school and got on the bus

My children's primary had 2 class bubbles sent home on the first week debating deregistering until September I'm in London

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets

Ignoring the rest, is school just about passing exams? Is the fact exams are cancelled means we just scrap education? What about the futures of those young people? Q

How will they prove their suitability for employment and further study? Or should we just condemn all young people to the scrap heap now?

My kids attend a school however I know some home educated kids that have never attended a school that are doing well school isn't the only option they learn in different ways and meet up with other homeschoolers some also sit formal qualifications if they want to they are still well socialized

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

You’d also be interested to learn that a lot of my time is spent feeding children and finding them warm clothes ... ten years of Tory austerity has really taken a toll on kids.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Perhaps the gent complaining about the six week summer holiday for schools has forgotten his own childhood? Or perhaps he is simply older than the maximum age Fab allows to be entered? Who knows?

Article title: A Brief History of The English Summer Holiday

Website name: Oxford Royale Academy

Wasn't the 6 week summer holiday so children could help with the harvest?

Yes school holidays were set to the agricultural calendar so kids could help with lambing and harvests etc"
Thee to bloody lazy these days lol

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

Yup my daughter has been home schooled for the last 4 years. She is now attending college 2 days a week as is doing her GCSE's. Reason that's being done in college as opposed to at home is cost mostly.

She is sitting extra mock exams currently as the grade will be determined by a mix of mock exam results along with teacher assessment. So still exams being taken.

She wishes it was still home learning though. My grandkids have been in school all the time. Due to their mum being a key worker.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I repeat again and this time perhaps you and the rest of the posters on this forum can answer without the personal asides

Again why do kids need 13weeks holiday per year multiply that by six to seven years and that's a lot of time

No my process of recruitment ensures I have a baseline of employee my staff can train

And I doubt very much education standards have risen

Neither do my colleagues in my local chamber of commerce or CBI

Finally I have no problem recruiting staff if they meet my and my firms standards what's your issue with that?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't comment on the pupils in your class, what I can and have commented on is what appears in front of my HR colleagues when we shortlist school and college leavers

I have such awful feedback from the interview panel

That this leads to my initial post as to why?

I would love to give kids a chance but I'm sorry I'm running a business and have to think of my staff who would have issues with training some of these kids

Incidentally why should my firm along with many others have to have tests as part of the recruitment process to establish basic skills?

The answer is .. when we have assumed from the qualifications they have that they have a standard of literacy and numeracy to a certain level we've found this is often not the case

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe you should look at the school hours in developing countries

Or the hours children put in south east Asia ?

What you are doing is not really looking at my whole argument

And like school kids - using a swear word to make your point

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I teach students from South East and East Asia. They're excellent at passing knowledge based exams. Generally incredibly poor at applying knowledge, at practical, hands on stuff (because their teachers do it for them). They struggle massively in UK high education because they don't have their hands held. Frequency of mental health problems among students from Korea, China etc is insane. Many want to do something else but parental pressure sends them down a pre-set path. I know which education system I'd pick for my kids.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

"Frankly it's stupid to open the schools

The pupils will only pass it on to the parents etc

There's no need - they are not taking exams

The schools and the govt have had a whole year to develop a remote curriculum

If parents can't cope with kids being at home then the real issue is why?

If the child is unruly and can't concentrate, is noisy, bored and inattentive I'm sorry but the fault lies between the parents and the schools for turning the kid out that way

And yes I don't have kids before you ask

However I do pay tax .... for education, social services, school welfare officers, child benefit and tax credits, remedial adult education etc

So yes I will complain about the finished product I have to interview and see on the streets "

What about those children that have suffered mentally through not being in school? Or those that have found the remote learning difficult?

What right so you have to say that those children are not entitled to the full education they deserve? They have had a really rough year and they need normality. My daughter is due to start college in September but has had no open days, no tours of the college and no preparation at all and as a child with anxiety, this has caused her alot of distress.

If you don't have school age children, you don't know how the children have been affected and how much they need school.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"when we shortlist school and college leavers

I have such awful feedback from the interview panel

Lol, you’re a serious businessman yet you fail to question why your HR policy/team is doing such an awful job, wasting so much valuable time interviewing people who haven’t got the basic skills and instead you blame a generation with a sweeping statement.

Perhaps return to education yourself, go study with the IOD and they’d very clearly highlight that the issue here lies within your company’s approach and HR team.

I’m sorry but finding bright young adults with basic literacy and numeracy skills is an absolute doddle, you are on the outskirts of the UKs 2nd city... it’s packed full of first class graduates.

As for education going downhill... bollocks, the national stats are there for anyone to see.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I teach students from South East and East Asia. They're excellent at passing knowledge based exams. Generally incredibly poor at applying knowledge, at practical, hands on stuff (because their teachers do it for them). They struggle massively in UK high education because they don't have their hands held. Frequency of mental health problems among students from Korea, China etc is insane. Many want to do something else but parental pressure sends them down a pre-set path. I know which education system I'd pick for my kids."

Why do they come here for their higher education?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I swore so I am a child?? You're on a swingers site, people have cock and cunt pics on their profiles and I'm a child because I swore in a post...

Do you do stand up?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *exy_HornyCouple
over a year ago

Leigh

"Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

Although we certainly don't agree with the tone of your posts, you do make some valid points.

In our experience, recent graduates have a sub-optimal grasp of English. They frequently mix up affect and effect, there and their, bear and bare, discreet and discrete etc. which makes them appear illiterate when writing reports.

Their IT skills are also poor. They expect all tasks to be accomplished using pre-made software or apps and don't really know how the machines work. Therefore, writing simple scripts or batch files to ease tasks is beyond their comprehension.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No by age you are not a child

What you did was not provide any justification for your comment, and resort to personal abuse

Finally you don't even understand the above point or you would not have replied like you have

Yes, this is a swingers site, but this is not a swinging thread

Like I said - your response is what I would expect from a child

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hmmm

We see much the same I'm afraid

Your comment is pretty much what I hear at trade events and Conferences

The issue is not the kids themselves

so no, I'm not anti kid and to those who say I'm anti school the answer is; I'm not because I need an educated workforce

As I said the fault lies with those bringing up children and their education

What i see in this thread is a consistent denial from parents and teachers coupled with personal abuse about the matter

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

Oh you said the “facts” word....

So therefore post your data that clearly shows that academic achievement has declined over the past 30 years? It doesn’t exist, gcse, a level and FE/HE achievements have increased year on year.

To answer your question:

Your applicants are falling short because your pre interview process isn’t working as it should. Perhaps your position and it’s accompanying package falls short and therefore you fail to attract the calibre of candidates you wish for, perhaps your HR people are just performing badly when sorting candidates for interview stage. Perhaps your recruitment advertising etc is badly placed... there’s many reasons that could contribute to your poor performance.

The indisputable fact is Birmingham, Wolverhampton and the surrounds produces thousands of college and university graduates each year who quickly find themselves a professional career in a multitude of industries. The problem here is not the people, it’s the fact you aren’t attracting or finding them when across the Midlands others are.

For some reason you equate that to a national failing within the younger generation and the education system.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

"I repeat again and this time perhaps you and the rest of the posters on this forum can answer without the personal asides

Again why do kids need 13weeks holiday per year multiply that by six to seven years and that's a lot of time

No my process of recruitment ensures I have a baseline of employee my staff can train

And I doubt very much education standards have risen

Neither do my colleagues in my local chamber of commerce or CBI

Finally I have no problem recruiting staff if they meet my and my firms standards what's your issue with that? "
kids need time to be kids is why they need time off... they get less time off than I had as a child.

I disagree totally with your theory about education being less now.. schools however now do focus on not just the academics. Some children just are better with other types of learning .

And if you click on reply to... then we can tell who you are replying to.

Btw my child is home educated.. as school didnt do the variety of subjects she wanted

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you need an educated workforce could you not foster a load of kids and then bring them up and educate them yourself? Bit of a win win situation, you get paid to foster them and get your workforce when they grow up.

Shame we don't have any 'poor houses' any more, would be ideal for so many businesses nowadays...although give it a couple of years and they may well make a welcome return

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said the fault lies with those bringing up children and their education

What i see in this thread is a consistent denial from parents and teachers coupled with personal abuse about the matter "

Actually, no. You see responses from people like me, a glamorous father who has two sons, the eldest is completing a first class degree after gaining excellent results at GCSE and then A level. He’s very unique and special to me but in a national context no he’s not, he’s on a course where his achievements and skills are echoed by his peers. That’s the case across the country.

All your statements brand him and all others of his age group as people who are failing and the simple fact is they aren’t. There’s huge achievement within that age group, yes there are those who struggle but that’s not a new phenomena, look back to a time when you where educated and you’ll find a much larger percentage of people lacking basic education.

I spent a lot of time during my work with F&B in talent management and development. If you are aware of their success story then you should know their phenomenal growth, success and subsequent buyout was transforming a tiny, archaic business into a world leading brand. Every key player in that management and marketing transformation came direct from education. I’d also say that the skills and thinking that was pivotal to creating brand loyalty, viral marketing, online visibility etc would have been impossible to find in those 30+.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enhamhoopMan
over a year ago

Denham

Why are teachers doing their work for them?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enhamhoopMan
over a year ago

Denham

"Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

Oh you said the “facts” word....

So therefore post your data that clearly shows that academic achievement has declined over the past 30 years? It doesn’t exist, gcse, a level and FE/HE achievements have increased year on year.

To answer your question:

For some reason you equate that to a national failing within the younger generation and the education system. "
He is actually saying that general arithmetic and language skills are falling whereas your argument is that higher grades prove this to be total nonsense think the way grades and qualifications are marked and who by may play quite a large part in this(The removal of grade curving playing a large part in this Imagine being in a science class with Einstein and Hawkins to achieve a C Grade would've been a major achievement). The fact course work plays a part in grades which are given out by teachers whose pay and continued employment are affected by the grades they give out may slightly inflate the results

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Why do they come here for their higher education?"

Because they believe UK (or US) higher education is better than that provided in their own countries and makes them internationally employable.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

Oh you said the “facts” word....

So therefore post your data that clearly shows that academic achievement has declined over the past 30 years? It doesn’t exist, gcse, a level and FE/HE achievements have increased year on year.

To answer your question:

For some reason you equate that to a national failing within the younger generation and the education system. He is actually saying that general arithmetic and language skills are falling whereas your argument is that higher grades prove this to be total nonsense think the way grades and qualifications are marked and who by may play quite a large part in this(The removal of grade curving playing a large part in this Imagine being in a science class with Einstein and Hawkins to achieve a C Grade would've been a major achievement). The fact course work plays a part in grades which are given out by teachers whose pay and continued employment are affected by the grades they give out may slightly inflate the results"

Apart from practical subjects like Art and Design/Tech, coursework has been removed from GCSEs and A levels for least the past 4 or 5 years.

However, not every person is suited to proving their ability by examination, especially not high-stakes, one-shot-only examinations.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sorry but you are wrong

You know nothing about my company and you therefore do not know what skills we are looking for .

Take some time to answer all my points

: why are these applicants falling short

Instead of criticism of a company you know nothing about

My views everyone btw, are based on data and facts - not on personal opinion.

Oh you said the “facts” word....

So therefore post your data that clearly shows that academic achievement has declined over the past 30 years? It doesn’t exist, gcse, a level and FE/HE achievements have increased year on year.

To answer your question:

Finding young adults with a good degree of maths and literacy is not a hard challenge in modern day Britain. The fact as a working class child you have a higher chance of completing further and higher education reinforces that compared to say 30,40 years ago where it was the exception not the normality.

There are always young adults with a lack of education, that’s been an issue for all time. There’s then a gradient between that and the higher end too. This concept of swathes of young people being lacking base skills is utter bobbins though.

The point I make is simple, we are in a better place with basic skills compared to previous years, particularly in areas such as IT literacy etc.

Employing people is investing in them and their development. Everyone knows that, from my experience if you are getting a load of chaff applying for your post, then the chances are your company, your position or salary offer is lacking.... it certainly doesn’t underline a national crisis, on the contrary with competition for jobs being as it is now for those leaving education any decent position should be awash with the over qualified and eager.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not really answered my question

And tbh I'm not posting again

My facts are based on the feedback I receive from my HR dept

I have confidence in their recruitment process as we find many qualified and talented engineers this way

My companies profits and order book suggest there is no issue with my recruitment process some parts of which we use internationally recognised evaluation tests btw

Higher grades does not mean the candidate is qualified for the job - they provide a baseline on which we can build ( it's called an apprenticeship)

As I have said .. we need to have our own tests because the grades have proved misleading.

I'm sorry but in engineering we cannot and will not employ educated idiots

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"educated idiots

And there’s the root issue...

A man so up his own arse he terms people with a disadvantaged background as idiots.

Says it all x

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Always nice to engage in a reasonable

Debate

For the benefit of others - your reply shows your attitude not mine

I'm responsible for ensuring my staff can pay their mortgages and taxes - I did not say I wouldn't employ kids from disadvantaged backgrounds

So don't misquote me

An educated idiot is someone ( not necessarily a school leaver) who has paper qualifications to a high standard yet lacks the skills ( or worse, the attitude) to perform in post

There's no need to be rude btw - I haven't insulted you

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Always nice to engage in a reasonable

Debate

For the benefit of others - your reply shows your attitude not mine

I'm responsible for ensuring my staff can pay their mortgages and taxes - I did not say I wouldn't employ kids from disadvantaged backgrounds

So don't misquote me

An educated idiot is someone ( not necessarily a school leaver) who has paper qualifications to a high standard yet lacks the skills ( or worse, the attitude) to perform in post

There's no need to be rude btw - I haven't insulted you "

Terming someone who doesn’t successfully gain employment with yourself as an “educated idiot” is wholly inappropriate and insulting to them, don’t try to justify that.

I have two porters working within my team currently with basic GCSEs but a well bellow average literacy and maths levels but I tell you what, they are both absolute legends, decent human beings and amongst the most empathetic and caring people I know, I couldn’t deliver what they do and I am certain neither could you. They aren’t educated idiots, they are part of a team that’s done phenomenal work over the past year and they’ve played a key roll.

Employers set their standards and appoint the appropriate skill set. No issue with that, that’s the way of the world. If people don’t make that mark just accept that, wish them luck and appreciate they’ll find their place elsewhere.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Always nice to engage in a reasonable

Debate

For the benefit of others - your reply shows your attitude not mine

I'm responsible for ensuring my staff can pay their mortgages and taxes - I did not say I wouldn't employ kids from disadvantaged backgrounds

So don't misquote me

An educated idiot is someone ( not necessarily a school leaver) who has paper qualifications to a high standard yet lacks the skills ( or worse, the attitude) to perform in post

There's no need to be rude btw - I haven't insulted you "

Out of interest how long have you worked at board level for? Is this engineering firm your own or are you an employee?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where i work we have a young lad of 21 who has a basic education and no qualifications or experience whatsoever in our field of work

Initially he was temporary doing some CAD work (a skill in itself) but once that was done he was doing (basically) dogsbody work to earn some more money.

He showed an aptitude to learn and picked things up ad just seemed to be able to do the job. He still has a way to go and has the stereotypical attitude of a lot of 21 year old males.

He can though do the job, learns on the job and should get better and progress.

There have been well educated people turn up with reams of paper qualifications who once on the shop floor simply cannot do the practical work, this has also included established tradespeople.

Well educated does not necessarily mean being good or competent (Boris, for example) or does having no qualifications make you stupid.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest you still do not apply yourself to my basic point:

The term may be harsh but the fact is paper qualifications do not mean you are any good at the job, nor that you have the aptitude of it

What's elitist about looking for the best person for the job?

I'm sorry but the cohort of applicants we see who have recently left education need a lot of training in areas which I think should have been covered in 6 to 7 years state education

It gives me no pleasure to hear that a young woman (for instance) who would love to work in our field can't do basic math. On her behalf I ask why this is the case ?

All I've heard so far is personal snide comments from posters by and large

Which, as some of these are educators kinda answers my question

I own my own company, it's an aerospace company, We also manufacture components for satellites and in the future I would love to build our own

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To be honest you still do not apply yourself to my basic point:

The term may be harsh but the fact is paper qualifications do not mean you are any good at the job, nor that you have the aptitude of it

What's elitist about looking for the best person for the job?

I'm sorry but the cohort of applicants we see who have recently left education need a lot of training in areas which I think should have been covered in 6 to 7 years state education

It gives me no pleasure to hear that a young woman (for instance) who would love to work in our field can't do basic math. On her behalf I ask why this is the case ?

All I've heard so far is personal snide comments from posters by and large

Which, as some of these are educators kinda answers my question

I own my own company, it's an aerospace company, We also manufacture components for satellites and in the future I would love to build our own

How long have you owned your own company for? #intrigued

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK so there are roughly 39 weeks per school term. If one pupil in a class tests positive every week and leads to whole class isolation thats the whole school year cancelled. Even if 12 pupils get it through out the year, 10 days isolation at a time, thats an incredible amount of education missed.

This virus isn't going anywhere, new strains are coming about all the time. Education has already been monumentally disrupted and its going to go on and on and on.

I'm reay very concerned.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I started after uni and built it up from there,

Begged and borrowed till I was taken seriously

I just love aerospace - I still get a buzz when I'm in a plane taking off lol

It's great also when a satellite you've helped come into being gets launched

There's a 56 year old Mexican called Miguel Alcubierre Moyà he's a theoretical physicist

His work is an inspiration

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didn't say I wanted schools closed

I inferred there was no need to open them now

And how about reforming them ?

So that every child reaches their potential

In spite of their background and parenting "

They are opening the country again, people are going back to work. The kids supposed to just stay at home alone are they?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I started after uni and built it up from there,

Begged and borrowed till I was taken seriously

I just love aerospace - I still get a buzz when I'm in a plane taking off lol

It's great also when a satellite you've helped come into being gets launched

There's a 56 year old Mexican called Miguel Alcubierre Moyà he's a theoretical physicist

His work is an inspiration "

You’re avoiding the question, how many years have you run your company?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

9 years

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they are not and I'm not advocating that

I'm saying this govt has had plenty of time in conjunction with the teachers to design an online curriculum and to supply laptops along with parental support

Online learning has been around for years

Could they not have consulted a provider ?

Instead we have this

An admission that the r rate may go up !

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enhamhoopMan
over a year ago

Denham

"Always nice to engage in a reasonable

Debate

For the benefit of others - your reply shows your attitude not mine

I'm responsible for ensuring my staff can pay their mortgages and taxes - I did not say I wouldn't employ kids from disadvantaged backgrounds

So don't misquote me

An educated idiot is someone ( not necessarily a school leaver) who has paper qualifications to a high standard yet lacks the skills ( or worse, the attitude) to perform in post

There's no need to be rude btw - I haven't insulted you

Terming someone who doesn’t successfully gain employment with yourself as an “educated idiot” is wholly inappropriate and insulting to them, don’t try to justify that.

There’s zero need for some elitist bullshit branding them as people of a sub standard, from my experiences many of these “idiots” as you term them would out perform yourself in a variety of situations. "
You kind of make the OP's point by stating these 2 porters have GCSE's but lack basic literacy and mathematics skills as for his point on educated idiots I have a friend who went to University achieved a decent 2/2 but I have seen him in work climb into a stuck waste crusher and jump up and down on it to get it working again.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"No they are not and I'm not advocating that

I'm saying this govt has had plenty of time in conjunction with the teachers to design an online curriculum and to supply laptops along with parental support

Online learning has been around for years

Could they not have consulted a provider ?

Instead we have this

An admission that the r rate may go up ! "

The government provided no budget for online transition and I’m assuming you haven’t but had you ever been in a state school in the last decade the laptops and wifi is woefully lacking ...... how were schools and teachers supposed to ‘do more’ with no resources

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"I repeat again and this time perhaps you and the rest of the posters on this forum can answer without the personal asides

Again why do kids need 13weeks holiday per year multiply that by six to seven years and that's a lot of time

No my process of recruitment ensures I have a baseline of employee my staff can train

And I doubt very much education standards have risen

Neither do my colleagues in my local chamber of commerce or CBI

Finally I have no problem recruiting staff if they meet my and my firms standards what's your issue with that? "

You’re not actually addressing any of my points ........

Personally I’m not doing my job to recruit for you as I have the whole child in my mind. I am teaching them self respect, how to build and maintain relationships, how to respect community, family and help others. Lining your pockets is the least of my worries I actually hope that most of ‘my kids’ wouldn’t work for someone with your attitude anyway tbh.