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"With all the arguments for and against and so called loss of liberty if the UK introduces a vaccine passport, it's pretty clear that if you want to travel you will need proof of vaccination. " I think that's a good thing | |||
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"I think the UK government should hurry up and forge agreements with EU countries, as a minimum, so that the travel industry can start to recover and people gain some ease and safeguards for travel. It's not the only thing to do for travel and health but starting earlier is likely to be most effective and ensures agreement " I read the other day that they are already in talks with Greece to forge a framework. | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement. "Doesn’t change the fact that they are making sovereign decisions | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement.
Doesn’t change the fact that they are making sovereign decisions "For tourism, they do that every day. Always have. When they make one that is not EU policy the EU asks them to explain why within 10 days. | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement.
Doesn’t change the fact that they are making sovereign decisions "Every nation in Europe is in fact sovereign, there are some common rules of course , but they usually are sensibile and decided together in parliament with al the other states. I totally agree with what u said before tho, the argument on sovereignty was definitely made to seem like Brussels is decided everything for us... big reveal, they don’t. Lol | |||
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"so is this not a case of we are in effect going to be penalised because our govt havent provided us with something we can use as evidence? even if we don’t require it to be used in the UK, we are going to need to be able to prove we have been vaccinated , other EU countries will just put the ask in place - they can’t be the ones to give us the proof " "Italy and the UK are considering issuing some sort of vaccination certificate." Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Sky News that there would be a review published on 12 April https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-holiday-starved-britons-flock-to-book-a-break-after-lockdown-exit-plans-revealed-12226330 | |||
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"At the moment only about 500,000 Would get a vaccine passport anyway. I would guess you would need both shots. And gose this not disadvantage younger people. " true but things like this the admin of setting up takes ages - we can’t wait til everyone has had their jabs and then start to think about it - unless thats the genuine strategy to delay international travel and keep risk of variants low which in itself is fine - but i would prefer if they were honest and said so or just closed the border to stop international travel rather than doing it in an underhand way | |||
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"I saw someone getting called out on another thread for even considering travel when it came to vaccine consideration. It’s one of my primary considerations as well so I would get a vaccine passport if needed " i don’t think they were called out , they were just told if thats the only reason you would get vaccinated it is selfish - thats just a factual statement - they would only get the vaccine to avoid detriment to themselves is the definition of selfish personally i dont care if its an altruistic or selfish reason that people get the vaccine , as long as we are having them it reaches the same objective | |||
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"I saw someone getting called out on another thread for even considering travel when it came to vaccine consideration. It’s one of my primary considerations as well so I would get a vaccine passport if needed i don’t think they were called out , they were just told if thats the only reason you would get vaccinated it is selfish - thats just a factual statement - they would only get the vaccine to avoid detriment to themselves is the definition of selfish personally i dont care if its an altruistic or selfish reason that people get the vaccine , as long as we are having them it reaches the same objective " I think we may be talking about different posts. | |||
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"I saw someone getting called out on another thread for even considering travel when it came to vaccine consideration. It’s one of my primary considerations as well so I would get a vaccine passport if needed i don’t think they were called out , they were just told if thats the only reason you would get vaccinated it is selfish - thats just a factual statement - they would only get the vaccine to avoid detriment to themselves is the definition of selfish personally i dont care if its an altruistic or selfish reason that people get the vaccine , as long as we are having them it reaches the same objective I think we may be talking about different posts. " possibly | |||
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"I saw someone getting called out on another thread for even considering travel when it came to vaccine consideration. It’s one of my primary considerations as well so I would get a vaccine passport if needed " And how would you do that at 41 it could be 8 weeks till you get the first jab then 12 weeks to the second one | |||
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"I saw someone getting called out on another thread for even considering travel when it came to vaccine consideration. It’s one of my primary considerations as well so I would get a vaccine passport if needed And how would you do that at 41 it could be 8 weeks till you get the first jab then 12 weeks to the second one " Well pretty simple really if it came in I would have to wait my turn to be vaccinated. And if I needed to absolutely travel in the interim I would have to abide by the current regulations such as quarantine etc. | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? " i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able " Hmm I guess that doesn't swing it for me being a scientist and preferring to see evidence before getting all excited that our nation is protected by a piece of paper. Im not for a moment advocating that anyone who has a substandard immune response be penalized, just as I don't believe anyone unvaccinated should be penalized, esp if they are healthy and not in a vulnerable, at risk category. The priority has to be vaccinating the vulnerable but we should also acknowledge that everything is not black and white esp given that it's not always the case that immunisation =immunity. Like its unfair to assume some one who acquired antibodies through natural infection should be required to get vaccinated for that piece of paper when there is no evidence that they are any less immune than someone who got vaccinated. Yet under this system, those people would be penalized if they don't go ahead and get vaccinated. We just should be really careful if we're going to start branding people... to me, this is not far off how Jews came to be marked before the second world war. Let's just not be complacent about what the implications of any 'system' might be in the long term. | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able Hmm I guess that doesn't swing it for me being a scientist and preferring to see evidence before getting all excited that our nation is protected by a piece of paper. Im not for a moment advocating that anyone who has a substandard immune response be penalized, just as I don't believe anyone unvaccinated should be penalized, esp if they are healthy and not in a vulnerable, at risk category. The priority has to be vaccinating the vulnerable but we should also acknowledge that everything is not black and white esp given that it's not always the case that immunisation =immunity. Like its unfair to assume some one who acquired antibodies through natural infection should be required to get vaccinated for that piece of paper when there is no evidence that they are any less immune than someone who got vaccinated. Yet under this system, those people would be penalized if they don't go ahead and get vaccinated. We just should be really careful if we're going to start branding people... to me, this is not far off how Jews came to be marked before the second world war. Let's just not be complacent about what the implications of any 'system' might be in the long term. " That's the issue..you state 'we're going to brand people'. But I'm sorry, it's not a case of branding its simply a case of people, for sensible business reasons, taking what they see as necessary precautions to address an extraordinary occurrence that can have a negative impact on their business. They are not forcing anyone to have a vaccine, that's the individual's right and choice but in the same breath that individual cant claim or tell those same organizations what best or what to do for their business. Lots of things I disagree with but have to accept in life..and as the sasying goes...'thats life' | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement. "?? its about travel ... travel is not just about holidays .. and it will cover all travel | |||
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"so is this not a case of we are in effect going to be penalised because our govt havent provided us with something we can use as evidence? even if we don’t require it to be used in the UK, we are going to need to be able to prove we have been vaccinated , other EU countries will just put the ask in place - they can’t be the ones to give us the proof " As soon as the Ministers have figured out how to monetise this and award a lucrative contract to a crony this will become a reality. | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement.
?? its about travel ... travel is not just about holidays .. and it will cover all travel"Again it's NOT about Migration and Settlement which is what the EU does have control over. | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able Hmm I guess that doesn't swing it for me being a scientist and preferring to see evidence before getting all excited that our nation is protected by a piece of paper. Im not for a moment advocating that anyone who has a substandard immune response be penalized, just as I don't believe anyone unvaccinated should be penalized, esp if they are healthy and not in a vulnerable, at risk category. The priority has to be vaccinating the vulnerable but we should also acknowledge that everything is not black and white esp given that it's not always the case that immunisation =immunity. Like its unfair to assume some one who acquired antibodies through natural infection should be required to get vaccinated for that piece of paper when there is no evidence that they are any less immune than someone who got vaccinated. Yet under this system, those people would be penalized if they don't go ahead and get vaccinated. We just should be really careful if we're going to start branding people... to me, this is not far off how Jews came to be marked before the second world war. Let's just not be complacent about what the implications of any 'system' might be in the long term. " i’m not saying a piece of paper makes us all safe or that the vaccine gives us immunity, i’m just saying that at the point you have been vaccinated you are now as safe you personally will ever be , (unless you are advocating for this to be a stop gap vaccine until we find one that does give immunity) so to start then testing for anti bodies before allowing people the freedoms (that other countries are now limiting) only serves to disadvantage people who genetically for some reason cannot develop antibodies this is not the same as disadvantaging people who get there through their own personal choice as far at the marking jews comment goes , its beyond ridiculous and been done to death in the forums so all i will say is - not affording someone who chooses not to contribute to the safety of society, the same privileges as someone who will , is in no way comparable to marling the homes and businesses of jewish people minding their own business to have them dragged off to concentration camps. i would have thought a scientist who likes things to be evidence based would be able to see that | |||
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"Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Sky News that there would be a review published on 12 April " Ah yes, that old chestnut. We'll wait to see what other countries do, and what systems they put in place, and then we will announce that the decision has been taken out of our hands and we'll have to comply with what everything else is doing. Not our fault, Gov. I don't know what it is about successive British Governments over the years but they have a deep aversion to mandating anything upon the British people which may even remotely, possibly infringe on our liberties. Even when it's in our best interests. It's like they don't even bother trying. Then again, we are not a country with a strong "social contract" compared to other nations on earth. How did we end up this way ? | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement.
Doesn’t change the fact that they are making sovereign decisions
Every nation in Europe is in fact sovereign, there are some common rules of course , but they usually are sensibile and decided together in parliament with al the other states. I totally agree with what u said before tho, the argument on sovereignty was definitely made to seem like Brussels is decided everything for us... big reveal, they don’t. Lol "Not any more | |||
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"How many of the locals/tourism workers in these tourist destinations will be fully vaccinated ? " We go to Corfu and someone who works in the tourist industry said they are being vaccinated, when they can get the vaccine... | |||
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"How many of the locals/tourism workers in these tourist destinations will be fully vaccinated ? We go to Corfu and someone who works in the tourist industry said they are being vaccinated, when they can get the vaccine..." The EU have always been so fair to Greece after all. | |||
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"How many of the locals/tourism workers in these tourist destinations will be fully vaccinated ? We go to Corfu and someone who works in the tourist industry said they are being vaccinated, when they can get the vaccine... The EU have always been so fair to Greece after all." Have they, I don't know.. | |||
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"How many of the locals/tourism workers in these tourist destinations will be fully vaccinated ? We go to Corfu and someone who works in the tourist industry said they are being vaccinated, when they can get the vaccine... The EU have always been so fair to Greece after all. Have they, I don't know.." Well this is a bit off piste but if you have a bit of time... Take a Google on any of the economist or telegraph of guardian or nytimes etc Greece v eu or better still yanis varoufakis who was the Greek treasury minister at the time....the national treasures demanded in return for a bail out package... A Nasty business | |||
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"How many of the locals/tourism workers in these tourist destinations will be fully vaccinated ? We go to Corfu and someone who works in the tourist industry said they are being vaccinated, when they can get the vaccine... The EU have always been so fair to Greece after all. Have they, I don't know.. Well this is a bit off piste but if you have a bit of time... Take a Google on any of the economist or telegraph of guardian or nytimes etc Greece v eu or better still yanis varoufakis who was the Greek treasury minister at the time....the national treasures demanded in return for a bail out package... A Nasty business " Thank you  | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able Hmm I guess that doesn't swing it for me being a scientist and preferring to see evidence before getting all excited that our nation is protected by a piece of paper. Im not for a moment advocating that anyone who has a substandard immune response be penalized, just as I don't believe anyone unvaccinated should be penalized, esp if they are healthy and not in a vulnerable, at risk category. The priority has to be vaccinating the vulnerable but we should also acknowledge that everything is not black and white esp given that it's not always the case that immunisation =immunity. Like its unfair to assume some one who acquired antibodies through natural infection should be required to get vaccinated for that piece of paper when there is no evidence that they are any less immune than someone who got vaccinated. Yet under this system, those people would be penalized if they don't go ahead and get vaccinated. We just should be really careful if we're going to start branding people... to me, this is not far off how Jews came to be marked before the second world war. Let's just not be complacent about what the implications of any 'system' might be in the long term. " | |||
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"There are lots of countries alreadt that won't let you travel if you don't have such vax's as: Yellow Fever Polio Malaria etc. It's conceivable entirely that a Covid Vax (at least in the short term will become one of them). " We already have a Yellow Vaccination Card, acceptable world wide. I've had many of them, as I've travelled a lot. I carried it with me as proof of vaccination, and had to produce it in some Middle Eastern and Asian countries. | |||
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"While it will be the case for many, I don't believe that every single person who got the covid vaccine will successfully develop antibodies... due to variation in how strong their immune systems are. Case in point is taken from another thread in this forum....a study showed that in the elderly, only 34.9% of those who received a single dose had antibodies at 4 weeks. So is it safe to have people roaming about thinking they have antibodies just because they have a vaccine passport when they may actually not have any immunity and can still therefore spread infection? Should we not be testing antibody titres before using any sort of green pass? i dont think you can penalise people because their body doesnt generate antibodies - and thats what that teat would in effect do all we can do is ask them to do everything they possibly can to try get those antibodies which is take both vaccines where they are medically able Hmm I guess that doesn't swing it for me being a scientist and preferring to see evidence before getting all excited that our nation is protected by a piece of paper. Im not for a moment advocating that anyone who has a substandard immune response be penalized, just as I don't believe anyone unvaccinated should be penalized, esp if they are healthy and not in a vulnerable, at risk category. The priority has to be vaccinating the vulnerable but we should also acknowledge that everything is not black and white esp given that it's not always the case that immunisation =immunity. Like its unfair to assume some one who acquired antibodies through natural infection should be required to get vaccinated for that piece of paper when there is no evidence that they are any less immune than someone who got vaccinated. Yet under this system, those people would be penalized if they don't go ahead and get vaccinated. We just should be really careful if we're going to start branding people... to me, this is not far off how Jews came to be marked before the second world war. Let's just not be complacent about what the implications of any 'system' might be in the long term. "what everyone forget when they scream "just get the vaccine" is that: not every one can for starters, some have medical issues that prevent it. high uptake in vaccines worldwide so far, where the need for high country vaxers, for low vac countries a simply stamp/letter from doc will do & funds go back to docs practice/NHS........not to private companies running this scheme 'on behalf' of gov. defo not for domestic access use. being done by age so only older people will be able to go (unless there's a private market for vax which will only be available to the elite due to cost). which is funny because these countries asking for passports have been trying to rid themselves of the boozy brit holidays for years, older folk visit places of interest not just bars and beach and tend to spend money on a wider variety of the local economy. in this set up the young are excluded from travel as they haven't even been offered vax yet. as for antibody test, in scotland this is limited to key workers only (teachers, care, police, nhs etc) not to gen pop so it is impossible for the likes of me who has reason to believe I/we may have antibodies from Feb 2019. only other option is for me to pay for it...nah your a private company is looking for my precious biodata gold...you can pay me 
They'll profit from it after all. | |||
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"Except for the fact that this is about Holiday Traffic NOT migration and settlement.
Doesn’t change the fact that they are making sovereign decisions "Doesn't change the fact either that there was mechanisms in place to control migration and settlement but the UK chose not to implement them | |||
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"There are lots of countries alreadt that won't let you travel if you don't have such vax's as: Yellow Fever Polio Malaria etc. It's conceivable entirely that a Covid Vax (at least in the short term will become one of them). " It is this simple to respond to nature to protect ourselves and others, if we choose to travel abroad for our holidays. | |||
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