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"Yes, if organisations decide to limit their customers this way and it's minimal cost to the health service " Ideally they won't look to reinvent the wheel and a universal system could be adopted, for any vaccines | |||
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"awefull idea, lets tattoo straight people...." Ooo free tattoos. Can I choose? | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers" Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports | |||
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"So people want a Covid Passport? Have they forgotten there a many other diseases out there and no one has has demanded passports before. So people are worried the person next to them in the pub or club could have Covid but never worried so much before about catching TB, measles, an STD or HIV" If other diseases do what Covid-19 has done, then I'd likely be in favour of passports for them. I know I was saved measles by the school vaccine mandate that was in place when I was a child (Australia), as were vulnerable children who could not be vaccinated. | |||
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"So people want a Covid Passport? Have they forgotten there a many other diseases out there and no one has has demanded passports before. So people are worried the person next to them in the pub or club could have Covid but never worried so much before about catching TB, measles, an STD or HIV" I don't think there's many that 'want' it, I think there's an inevitability that there will be something whereby businesses for their own liabilities will try and ensure they are doing what they can or is advised by their lawyers.. Your latter point about other things std etc is unfounded on the whole.. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. " Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. " If there's a genuine medical reason then hopefully the correct issues will be addressed for those people, for anyone just saying ' not having it' then expect a possible repercussion .. The latter will be so worded by the legal system, albeit there will no doubt be challenge.. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences." Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc?" By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. If there's a genuine medical reason then hopefully the correct issues will be addressed for those people, for anyone just saying ' not having it' then expect a possible repercussion .. The latter will be so worded by the legal system, albeit there will no doubt be challenge.." I imagine - per precedent in other countries - that medical exemption will apply. If you can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, it won't apply to you. To me I consider "optional establishments and activities may deny you entry if you haven't been vaccinated" to be less discriminatory than "the choices of others may mean that the vulnerable face risk of severe disease through no fault of their own". Get jabbed, don't get jabbed. Your choice. Choices don't happen in a vacuum or without response. Those who can't get jabbed - don't have a choice. A lot of them have been imprisoned long enough already. Let's protect their health. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. If there's a genuine medical reason then hopefully the correct issues will be addressed for those people, for anyone just saying ' not having it' then expect a possible repercussion .. The latter will be so worded by the legal system, albeit there will no doubt be challenge.. I imagine - per precedent in other countries - that medical exemption will apply. If you can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, it won't apply to you. To me I consider "optional establishments and activities may deny you entry if you haven't been vaccinated" to be less discriminatory than "the choices of others may mean that the vulnerable face risk of severe disease through no fault of their own". Get jabbed, don't get jabbed. Your choice. Choices don't happen in a vacuum or without response. Those who can't get jabbed - don't have a choice. A lot of them have been imprisoned long enough already. Let's protect their health." Agreed, there is a bit of shortsightedness in relation to the fact that the vast majority of people develop medical issues which make them more vulnerable.. Can and will happen to a lot of us . | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc?" Let's reword this. "I refuse to play my part in limiting the spread of a disease that has brought this country to its knees and has killed or disabled hundreds of thousands of people. I want to spread my germs in places that are totally optional. If the medically vulnerable, who can't be vaccinated, want to avoid the risk of death, they should stay imprisoned in their home forever, because I want to go to the pub." | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.." Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. " Till the last line I was going to continue.. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. " Denying germ theory? How quaint  | |||
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"Im not against vaccines, I personally will have the Covid vaccine, but I am all for people to make their own choice without any form of coersion. I am however against having to show my medical records to enter a pub, resturant or any other similar venue. There would be outrage if venues chose to ask for peoples HIV status" HIV status is not something people choose and is something that has been the subject of significant discrimination. Refusing a vaccine is not. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.." I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? " Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable 
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward."What a load of rubbish lol | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward.
What a load of rubbish lol
"You wanna live in society at its full, contribute to rebuilding it lol | |||
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"This could lead to a backdoor ID card and now big brother has total control of you. When Tony Blair warned the ID card even your bank account was to be on it so if you got a fine for say parking ticket it would be automatically taken from your bank. This is what people could be sleep walking into with this. " So we make sure it doesn't happen. A classic legal axiom (Dicey) says that the UK constitution allows Parliament to murder blue eyed babies, if it so chooses. As vaccine passports are dystopian, we'd better abolish UK parliament and all laws, because murdering blue eyed babies is monstrous and cannot be allowed. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward.
What a load of rubbish lol
You wanna live in society at its full, contribute to rebuilding it lol"I've worked all the way through all this. Done my bit. You want to live like sheep the rest of your life.. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward.
What a load of rubbish lol
You wanna live in society at its full, contribute to rebuilding it lol
I've worked all the way through all this.
Done my bit.
You want to live like sheep the rest of your life.. "If you don't get a vaccine, you will be perpetuating Covid-19. That's how it works. We cannot drive this down without all of us limiting transmission. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. Till the last line I was going to continue.. I have nothing against anyone wanting the vaccine but it's a free choice not mandatory so why should we be punished? Mandatory generally means that the government will apply criminal law against you (in this country, fines or imprisonment). Vaccine passports are rewarding those making pro social choices and protecting the vulnerable
If you don't make pro social choices, you don't get the reward." | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol" Plenty will ... plenty still have been | |||
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" can people hightlight the usefulness of a vaccine passport in a domestic setting if there is already herd immunity. what exactly do people think is being protected by it's introduction and how?" Herd immunity has not been demonstrated. Those who've been shielding and would like to step outside their houses at some point in the next few years (I know a couple of people who've not stepped outside in A YEAR). Those who might be reinfected (it's been demonstrated, and sometimes second infections are fatal - I heard of one case). Mostly the vulnerable. Also, reduced viral reproduction means less chance of new variants and new lockdown. What's being protected? Pretty much everything. | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol" I'll get my vaccines. I'll wait until I mount an immune response. I make decisions based on talking to people, venue policy, and rates of community uptake. Until then, I don't. | |||
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"No chance ... too many people getting organized and legal stuff going ahead " Lol. Plenty demonstrate and plenty attempt to sue. I think the Tory free market wing will win this one, and open up early plus businesses can do what they want will sway policy and law. | |||
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"If you want to go restaurants get the jab.. want to go on holiday, get the jab... want to go to the pub. Get the jab.. if people have passports and pubs let people in without then fine the pubs.." so if you have the jab you can still catch the virus. Should they not make you take a test before entering a establishment to say you are negative. They could charge you a fee for the test then you know everyone is negative having the jab doesn't prove your negative | |||
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"If you want to go restaurants get the jab.. want to go on holiday, get the jab... want to go to the pub. Get the jab.. if people have passports and pubs let people in without then fine the pubs.." So are families not allowed in restaurants or entertainment venues anymore ? | |||
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" Herd immunity has not been demonstrated." and the muttering from government is that none of the venues that people have described it being needed for on these threads (other than international travel) will be opened until it has been demostrated. That being the case, then what is the point? | |||
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"No chance ... too many people getting organized and legal stuff going ahead Lol. Plenty demonstrate and plenty attempt to sue. I think the Tory free market wing will win this one, and open up early plus businesses can do what they want will sway policy and law." It’s not about demonstrating ... | |||
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" can people hightlight the usefulness of a vaccine passport in a domestic setting if there is already herd immunity. what exactly do people think is being protected by it's introduction and how?" Apparently someone standing next to you who decided to not have a vaccine can infect you whereas someone who can’t have a vaccine for medical reasons can’t. | |||
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"If you want to go restaurants get the jab.. want to go on holiday, get the jab... want to go to the pub. Get the jab.. if people have passports and pubs let people in without then fine the pubs..so if you have the jab you can still catch the virus. Should they not make you take a test before entering a establishment to say you are negative. They could charge you a fee for the test then you know everyone is negative having the jab doesn't prove your negative " It's remarkable, isn't it. The same people demanding lockdown end because people can take their chances Are the same saying they should be allowed everywhere despite potentially shedding 100% of viral load. And the same who are saying that those shedding (one indication from one vaccine) 33% of viral load are an unacceptable risk. Doesn't make any sense to me. | |||
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"If you want to go restaurants get the jab.. want to go on holiday, get the jab... want to go to the pub. Get the jab.. if people have passports and pubs let people in without then fine the pubs..so if you have the jab you can still catch the virus. Should they not make you take a test before entering a establishment to say you are negative. They could charge you a fee for the test then you know everyone is negative having the jab doesn't prove your negative " That’s a lot of testing on a pub crawl. | |||
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"No chance ... too many people getting organized and legal stuff going ahead Lol. Plenty demonstrate and plenty attempt to sue. I think the Tory free market wing will win this one, and open up early plus businesses can do what they want will sway policy and law. It’s not about demonstrating ... " Have fun with your lawsuit. Lol | |||
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" Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. " So called virus? Are you saying COVID and all its effects aren't real? | |||
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" can people hightlight the usefulness of a vaccine passport in a domestic setting if there is already herd immunity. what exactly do people think is being protected by it's introduction and how? Apparently someone standing next to you who decided to not have a vaccine can infect you whereas someone who can’t have a vaccine for medical reasons can’t. " Goodness. I didn't know compassionate exemptions were a foreign concept. We allow those in who are a risk through no fault of their own, recognising that they're a tiny fraction of the population. An acceptable risk. We deny all other risk, because their freedom is worth less than community health. | |||
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"As I've stated in another thread I'm dead against it as it serves no useful purpose. Having said that I doubt many venues will enforce it. When the last lockdown lifted and venues were required to take details not a single one I went into bothered with it. " I reported every single establishment that didn't, every single time. | |||
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" can people hightlight the usefulness of a vaccine passport in a domestic setting if there is already herd immunity. what exactly do people think is being protected by it's introduction and how? Apparently someone standing next to you who decided to not have a vaccine can infect you whereas someone who can’t have a vaccine for medical reasons can’t. " but what is the difference from a person who refused and a person who was medically exempt from standing next to m? and if i have had the jab then so what if one or both of them do stand next to me, i have been innoculated. if they were introduced today they may have a point but introducing them in a few months time when lockdown is lifted because herd immunity is reached then there seems little or no point at all. | |||
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"I genuinely think that most of europe and the world will add it as a condition of travel a bit like a visa. All you will need is a number alongside your passport number on an entry form. But i also think the travel companies need to encase the cost of any tests required into your holiday. That wat the price of the tests should dramatically decrease But i do feel it should be compulsory( except for medical reasons) for anyone working in the health /care sector who deal with the elderly and vulnerable. Some injections in the nhs are compulsory hep C for instance. " but what's the benefit for a domestic setting seeing as how lockdown will continue until herd immunity rather than international travel? | |||
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" "It all falls into three groups.. Those that have the vaccine Those that CAN'T have the vaccine Those that won't have the vaccine. As long as any "passport" also includes the can't then any issue of discrimination will be easier to argue against. If we also keep our fingers crossed that the early indications show that the vaccine DOES prevent infection and transmission (and yes I know..the jury is still out on this ).. So.... if, in the future, a venue holds a large crowd of people and requires a vaccine passport for entry.. the jabbed can attend and feel safe that they are protected (as many are quick to point out)... Can'ts will be able to attend knowing that the risk to their health is dramatically reduced..basically their risk is from others that can't (which theoretically should be a small percentage of the population) and the small risk from those jabbed that may still be infectious (fingers crossed) .. If the won'ts also attend then that could significsntly highghtens the risk to those that can't..so they could be forced to not attend through fear to their health.. I am sure if this ever happens.. there will also be plenty of venues that will still have an open door policy where everyone has a choice.... Vaccine passport will not discriminate against those that choose not to jab...that is still their choice to make and they needs to balance it with the expectations of the wider society... but it will provide a level of protection for those that can't have the jab.. Would it not be discrimination if those that can't are forced to lock themselves away from society for ever through no choice of their own ???" " this does not answer the question i am asking. | |||
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" It may well be the way out of lockdown 'IF' herd immunity is not quite achieved (because of a lack of vaccine uptake) and may be the only way we will some kind of normality....??? "It all falls into three groups.. Those that have the vaccine Those that CAN'T have the vaccine Those that won't have the vaccine. As long as any "passport" also includes the can't then any issue of discrimination will be easier to argue against. If we also keep our fingers crossed that the early indications show that the vaccine DOES prevent infection and transmission (and yes I know..the jury is still out on this ).. So.... if, in the future, a venue holds a large crowd of people and requires a vaccine passport for entry.. the jabbed can attend and feel safe that they are protected (as many are quick to point out)... Can'ts will be able to attend knowing that the risk to their health is dramatically reduced..basically their risk is from others that can't (which theoretically should be a small percentage of the population) and the small risk from those jabbed that may still be infectious (fingers crossed) .. If the won'ts also attend then that could significsntly highghtens the risk to those that can't..so they could be forced to not attend through fear to their health.. I am sure if this ever happens.. there will also be plenty of venues that will still have an open door policy where everyone has a choice.... Vaccine passport will not discriminate against those that choose not to jab...that is still their choice to make and they needs to balance it with the expectations of the wider society... but it will provide a level of protection for those that can't have the jab.. Would it not be discrimination if those that can't are forced to lock themselves away from society for ever through no choice of their own ???" this does not answer the question i am asking." | |||
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"Nice idea, but wont work. How long do you think it will take,for the fake passports to be doing being the rounds.By the way Im having my jab before anyone asks." So we should do away with money? Forgery exists there too. So do criminal prosecutions and anti forgery measures. | |||
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"Without discriminating or effecting peoples human rights some companies or venues may insist on seeing proof of vacination before entry. And they could use the duty of care excuse for their staff and patrons. Health and safety tends to trump discrimination law. But i am no laywer. Just know in a previous incarnation as a store manager i had a duty of care for my staff and customers and as such could not knowingly put them in danger. In covid case no proof of vacination no entry ????" this again does not address what i have asked in the slightest. | |||
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"please point out the benefit of a passport when herd immunity is reached, which if what the government has mentioned, will be prior to any lockdown being lifted. " We won't reach herd immunity (or anywhere near it) by 'not before' 21st June. The target for every adult being offered their first vaccination isn't until July 31st. Then there's 2-3 weeks to build up antibodies, followed by 12 weeks until 2nd vaccination, followed by 2-3 weeks to reach maximum antibidies. Secondly, even when herd immunity is reached (if ever), any Country requiring proof for admittance makes them worthwile if you want to travel. | |||
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"Some larger companies may not accept herd imunity as a valid reason. Especially the insurance companies who cover these venues and travel(as they already try to use any excuse to invalidate a claim) No covid vaccine could become another weapon in their armory to avoid issuing policies or voiding claims" Yes, this may come down to corporate liability plus "let's get the economy open". | |||
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"The benifit and drawback of the passport would be to allow/deny you opion to fly or enter large venues. Concert halls arena and possibly football/rugby stadiums I have no real opinion on weither they are right or wrong just pointing out what may be allowed to happen. Quantas has already stated to fly on their planes proof of vacination would be required and that was weeks ago " you still are skirting around the question i have asked without answering it with anything directly relevant. | |||
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"Herd immunity will only be reached if the required percentage of society has either been vaccinated or has antibodies... The more people that choose not to vaccinated will make this figure more difficult to achieve..so like mentioned above it becomes a catch 22 scenario.. But at some point the government will have to make a tough call to open up even if they don't reach it (not that they ever U turn lol) The passport may be an option to open up society again with as much safety as possible if that is the situation.. But like many have said..this may not be driven by government but by society/ bussinesss/ etc etc ??? And this is just an opinion and theory.... if it does not answer your question then fine..we beg to differ mate "Yes | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? " what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown? | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown?" There won’t be one but we are nowhere near here immunity yet | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown?" What if herd immunity isnt achieved? | |||
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"Some larger companies may not accept herd imunity as a valid reason. Especially the insurance companies who cover these venues and travel(as they already try to use any excuse to invalidate a claim) No covid vaccine could become another weapon in their armory to avoid issuing policies or voiding claims" you still haven't answered the question i asked. forget foreign travel, i specifically asked about a domestic setting. | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown?" I've try to answer your question above | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown? I've try to answer your question above" you've given a list of irrelevent forms of id but you haven't answered my question. | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? " So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown? What if herd immunity isnt achieved? " at that point the vaccine will have failed and a passport will clearly have no benefit in that instance. | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" " Why would someone who couldn't go into a certain pub or restaurant be left to die? There will no doubt be some establishments that will just be open door.. Like any aspect of profit making the club's, pubs etc will go with what gets most people through the doors and spending.. | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" " All part of vaccination apartheid  | |||
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"You need to show proof of age to buy alcohol/ cigarettes. A licence to drive a car / motorcycle. A passport to travel overseas. We are tracked via mobile phones. CCTV in the streets. Why not a vaccine passport? what is the benefit to wider society of a covid passport when herd immunity has been achieved prior to the lifting of lockdown? I've try to answer your question above you've given a list of irrelevent forms of id but you haven't answered my question." No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'." i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. | |||
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"I have been vocal on these forums against a domestic Covid Cert/PPT but sadly I think it is inevitable and we will have no choice." i am ambivalent personally, but i fail to see the point of it. there may have been an argument for a covid vaccine document at the start of the vaccine programme, but nobody has yet argued the case for having one when herd immunity is reached prior to the lifting of restrictions. | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" " I'd be fascinated to know how people not being allowed into pubs or restaurants would die solely because of this. They could always reword the sign to say "people who selfishly put the lives of others at risk not wanted here". I would not go into an establishment that allowed non-vaccinated people in and neither would many of my friends. I'm guessing it will boil down to those places that do and those that don't and how it affects their profits. | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. " So am I correct in thinking you're in agreement that a vaccine passport is a good thing as far as International travel is concerned then? | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. So am I correct in thinking you're in agreement that a vaccine passport is a good thing as far as International travel is concerned then?" nope. on account of the fact that i have already got my ICVP and it's worked for me traveling the globe for at least 4 decades. what's the point of all that expense to change the international document that has worked 100% since i was born. | |||
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"I have been vocal on these forums against a domestic Covid Cert/PPT but sadly I think it is inevitable and we will have no choice. i am ambivalent personally, but i fail to see the point of it. there may have been an argument for a covid vaccine document at the start of the vaccine programme, but nobody has yet argued the case for having one when herd immunity is reached prior to the lifting of restrictions." I think we all want the herd immunity solution to work..but if there is still a large portion of society that refuse the vaccine then it will never happen...it won't be as you say..the vaccine failed..it will be society failed to pull together .. so yes..if as you keep asking if we don't open up if herd immunity is not achieved then yes..any domestic passport is useless because there would be no place to use it..we are still locked down !!!! It's just an option, whether right or wrong in individuals opinions.. A pasdport may allow restrictions to be eased with a mitigated risk...everyone wants to go out again, everyone wants the economy to bounce back..but everyone should also want safety.. so everyone needs to take responsibility???? | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. So am I correct in thinking you're in agreement that a vaccine passport is a good thing as far as International travel is concerned then? nope. on account of the fact that i have already got my ICVP and it's worked for me traveling the globe for at least 4 decades. what's the point of all that expense to change the international document that has worked 100% since i was born." Does your ICVP cover COVID vaccination? | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker." Personally don't see problem with it being an ID card.. have Blood Group details, next of kin details as well.. other countries have an ID card. No reason why we shouldnt | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker." Not in favour of Covid PPT but gotta say... You do realise that you are already able to be tracked easily right? Unless you don’t own a mobile, don’t drive, don’t go on the internet, only pay in cash and somehow manage to avoid all CCTV then you are able to be tracked now! Just saying! | |||
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"I have been vocal on these forums against a domestic Covid Cert/PPT but sadly I think it is inevitable and we will have no choice. i am ambivalent personally, but i fail to see the point of it. there may have been an argument for a covid vaccine document at the start of the vaccine programme, but nobody has yet argued the case for having one when herd immunity is reached prior to the lifting of restrictions. I think we all want the herd immunity solution to work..but if there is still a large portion of society that refuse the vaccine then it will never happen...it won't be as you say..the vaccine failed..it will be society failed to pull together .. so yes..if as you keep asking if we don't open up if herd immunity is not achieved then yes..any domestic passport is useless because there would be no place to use it..we are still locked down !!!! It's just an option, whether right or wrong in individuals opinions.. A pasdport may allow restrictions to be eased with a mitigated risk...everyone wants to go out again, everyone wants the economy to bounce back..but everyone should also want safety.. so everyone needs to take responsibility???? " i'd prefer you answer the question i posed to be honest but nevermind | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Personally don't see problem with it being an ID card.. have Blood Group details, next of kin details as well.. other countries have an ID card. No reason why we shouldnt" A medical card, vaccines, allergies, blood type, previous surgery/ major health issues, GP contact, might be useful. Maybe easy to access "vaccine passport" data (yes, no, incomplete, exempt) and harder to access everything else (like a database for NHS only sort of thing) | |||
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"I have been vocal on these forums against a domestic Covid Cert/PPT but sadly I think it is inevitable and we will have no choice. i am ambivalent personally, but i fail to see the point of it. there may have been an argument for a covid vaccine document at the start of the vaccine programme, but nobody has yet argued the case for having one when herd immunity is reached prior to the lifting of restrictions. I think we all want the herd immunity solution to work..but if there is still a large portion of society that refuse the vaccine then it will never happen...it won't be as you say..the vaccine failed..it will be society failed to pull together .. so yes..if as you keep asking if we don't open up if herd immunity is not achieved then yes..any domestic passport is useless because there would be no place to use it..we are still locked down !!!! It's just an option, whether right or wrong in individuals opinions.. A pasdport may allow restrictions to be eased with a mitigated risk...everyone wants to go out again, everyone wants the economy to bounce back..but everyone should also want safety.. so everyone needs to take responsibility???? i'd prefer you answer the question i posed to be honest but nevermind" Think you will find I have..if we reach herd immunity then we won't need one obviouse...but that's a big IF ???... | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Personally don't see problem with it being an ID card.. have Blood Group details, next of kin details as well.. other countries have an ID card. No reason why we shouldnt A medical card, vaccines, allergies, blood type, previous surgery/ major health issues, GP contact, might be useful. Maybe easy to access "vaccine passport" data (yes, no, incomplete, exempt) and harder to access everything else (like a database for NHS only sort of thing)" There are Tory cronies out there rubbing their hands with glee at the potential to monetise yet more of the Covid Crisis. BTW - The UK was on track for an ID Card back in 2010 but the Tory/Lib Dem coalition scrapped it (first piece of legislation). | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. So am I correct in thinking you're in agreement that a vaccine passport is a good thing as far as International travel is concerned then? nope. on account of the fact that i have already got my ICVP and it's worked for me traveling the globe for at least 4 decades. what's the point of all that expense to change the international document that has worked 100% since i was born. Does your ICVP cover COVID vaccination?" there is no requirement for it to be included on a british issued ICVP as foreign travel is currently illegal according to johnson. which countries have made vaccination a requirement for entry? | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Personally don't see problem with it being an ID card.. have Blood Group details, next of kin details as well.. other countries have an ID card. No reason why we shouldnt A medical card, vaccines, allergies, blood type, previous surgery/ major health issues, GP contact, might be useful. Maybe easy to access "vaccine passport" data (yes, no, incomplete, exempt) and harder to access everything else (like a database for NHS only sort of thing) There are Tory cronies out there rubbing their hands with glee at the potential to monetise yet more of the Covid Crisis. BTW - The UK was on track for an ID Card back in 2010 but the Tory/Lib Dem coalition scrapped it (first piece of legislation)." The fact that something might be abused does not make it not worthwhile. | |||
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" No I haven't, read my reply above, not the reply in the posted quote. You also didn't specifically refer to "in a domestic setting", your original post (the one I've answered) it never mentioned 'dimestic setting'. i specifically mentioned 'domestic setting' in my first post, you must've just missed it and where i subsequently mentioned in other posts. foreign travel is a different matter as it's the host countries rules come into play then. So am I correct in thinking you're in agreement that a vaccine passport is a good thing as far as International travel is concerned then? nope. on account of the fact that i have already got my ICVP and it's worked for me traveling the globe for at least 4 decades. what's the point of all that expense to change the international document that has worked 100% since i was born. Does your ICVP cover COVID vaccination? there is no requirement for it to be included on a british issued ICVP as foreign travel is currently illegal according to johnson. which countries have made vaccination a requirement for entry?" None at present, but should it become a requirement, as is increasingly being muted, would you have it added or refuse? | |||
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" None at present, but should it become a requirement, as is increasingly being muted, would you have it added or refuse?" then why the need for a covid passport? i am sure it can bee added to the already 52 year old document at a global level without issue, don't you? | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol" Indeed!!  x | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Not in favour of Covid PPT but gotta say... You do realise that you are already able to be tracked easily right? Unless you don’t own a mobile, don’t drive, don’t go on the internet, only pay in cash and somehow manage to avoid all CCTV then you are able to be tracked now! Just saying!" Thats my point. Why add more. Personaly i have no issue with people knowing my movements like going to clubs but it could be tricky for some. | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol Indeed!! x"There are some who havent stopped.. the same who moaned the government were not doing enough are the same now saying they wont have vaccine, wear a mask.. | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Personally don't see problem with it being an ID card.. have Blood Group details, next of kin details as well.. other countries have an ID card. No reason why we shouldnt A medical card, vaccines, allergies, blood type, previous surgery/ major health issues, GP contact, might be useful. Maybe easy to access "vaccine passport" data (yes, no, incomplete, exempt) and harder to access everything else (like a database for NHS only sort of thing) There are Tory cronies out there rubbing their hands with glee at the potential to monetise yet more of the Covid Crisis. BTW - The UK was on track for an ID Card back in 2010 but the Tory/Lib Dem coalition scrapped it (first piece of legislation). The fact that something might be abused does not make it not worthwhile." Quite so. Was merely stating that if we go down a more complex ID Card style route then the cost (and potential profit for the provider) will rocket. The UK Govt were working on ID Cards for 5 years and had only just started issuing them when it got canned by new Govt. | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol Indeed!! x
There are some who havent stopped.. the same who moaned the government were not doing enough are the same now saying they wont have vaccine, wear a mask.. "I'm sure there are! I've had my vax yesterday and wear a mask 7 hrs in my supermarket job! But as soon as that green light is there I'm of for meets! Cant livecin fear x | |||
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"Wow! How are you people going to continue swinging lol Indeed!! x
There are some who havent stopped.. the same who moaned the government were not doing enough are the same now saying they wont have vaccine, wear a mask..
I'm sure there are! I've had my vax yesterday and wear a mask 7 hrs in my supermarket job! But as soon as that green light is there I'm of for meets! Cant livecin fear x"You have had your vax and been wearing your mask.. you have more than earned the right. My beef along with many others on the CEV list is those who blatently flout the rules and think theycare above the law. Has made mine and many other families problems 100 times worse.. | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports" Same. I can however see them being needed for travel abroad because we can't do anything about other countries requirements. I can also see why some sectors may require their employees to have had the vaccine, however I don't think it should be be vaccinated or you can't go to the theatre. | |||
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" None at present, but should it become a requirement, as is increasingly being muted, would you have it added or refuse? then why the need for a covid passport? i am sure it can bee added to the already 52 year old document at a global level without issue, don't you?" I'm sure it could, but then doesn't that make it another form of vaccine passport? Not everyone has an ICVP, so the vaccine passport in order to travel to countries not requiring the level of vaccination proof you have, but requiring COVID vaccination proof would be a useful item. | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports Same. I can however see them being needed for travel abroad because we can't do anything about other countries requirements. I can also see why some sectors may require their employees to have had the vaccine, however I don't think it should be be vaccinated or you can't go to the theatre." For the greater good maybe? The more vaccinated the sooner this comes to an end (if at all).. Vaccinate to protect your children, your brothers, the person in Stalls D16 (great.seat) | |||
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" None at present, but should it become a requirement, as is increasingly being muted, would you have it added or refuse? then why the need for a covid passport? i am sure it can bee added to the already 52 year old document at a global level without issue, don't you? I'm sure it could, but then doesn't that make it another form of vaccine passport? Not everyone has an ICVP, so the vaccine passport in order to travel to countries not requiring the level of vaccination proof you have, but requiring COVID vaccination proof would be a useful item." i'm not going to follow you down your rabbit hole. i asked specifically about a domestic setting. | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports Same. I can however see them being needed for travel abroad because we can't do anything about other countries requirements. I can also see why some sectors may require their employees to have had the vaccine, however I don't think it should be be vaccinated or you can't go to the theatre. For the greater good maybe? The more vaccinated the sooner this comes to an end (if at all).. Vaccinate to protect your children, your brothers, the person in Stalls D16 (great.seat)" Then will the theater start demanding you have had the flu, MMR, meningitis, Pneumonia, hepC&B and polo vaccine? | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports Same. I can however see them being needed for travel abroad because we can't do anything about other countries requirements. I can also see why some sectors may require their employees to have had the vaccine, however I don't think it should be be vaccinated or you can't go to the theatre. For the greater good maybe? The more vaccinated the sooner this comes to an end (if at all).. Vaccinate to protect your children, your brothers, the person in Stalls D16 (great.seat) Then will the theater start demanding you have had the flu, MMR, meningitis, Pneumonia, hepC&B and polo vaccine? " No just Covid jab... | |||
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"The only people who would not see the plus in this are anti vaxxers Nope. I've been vaccinated and encourage others to be but I'm not an advocate of passports Same. I can however see them being needed for travel abroad because we can't do anything about other countries requirements. I can also see why some sectors may require their employees to have had the vaccine, however I don't think it should be be vaccinated or you can't go to the theatre. For the greater good maybe? The more vaccinated the sooner this comes to an end (if at all).. Vaccinate to protect your children, your brothers, the person in Stalls D16 (great.seat) Then will the theater start demanding you have had the flu, MMR, meningitis, Pneumonia, hepC&B and polo vaccine? No just Covid jab... " I doubt it and that's why I'm against it. | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc?" For the safety of the people who cannot have it, even Trump the most selfish, self opionated man in the word could see that and had the jab,  | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" " Well said! Think alot of people would be happy with this! That's how bad society as come | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" Well said! Think alot of people would be happy with this! That's how bad society as come " if it keeps me and others safer from disease that could have been avoided then I'm happy with the sign | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. " It isn't a government idea, or policy. However if businesses, pubs, clubs a d other countries insist on it for entry, travel etc then it could become inevitable. Personally I have no problem with it either way. Choices and consequences are around us everywhere. There needs to be genuine medic exemptions built in if it does come about. For the refuseniks then though titty!! | |||
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"Who else thinks this is a great idea? If you have had the jab you can enjoy pubs restaurants and clubs? So the people who decided not to have it are ostracized and cut out from society and left to die. Why don't pubs and restaurants just put a sign outside their place saying "non vaccinated not wanted here" Well said! Think alot of people would be happy with this! That's how bad society as come if it keeps me and others safer from disease that could have been avoided then I'm happy with the sign " | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wodd) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. That's how your post reads anyway. " 1. Didn't say it was a magic bullet, said it was risk reduction 2. The model I've envisaged allows exemptions for those who can't be vaccinated, so if you can prove it you'd be welcome | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? " I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wodd) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. That's how your post reads anyway. 1. Didn't say it was a magic bullet, said it was risk reduction 2. The model I've envisaged allows exemptions for those who can't be vaccinated, so if you can prove it you'd be welcome" Likewise | |||
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" Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? " Nope. Allow those who are vaccinated. Allow those who can't be vaccinated. Others: tough shit. | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? Absolutely! Perfect example. What if I own property abroad yet I have to be vaccinated to go there. But, as I've explained already, I cannot be vaccinated. What do I do? Its my property. I own it. Possibly have paid taxes in that country for many years. Yet under the rules do I get banned? Even if I'm healthy? " Depends on the country's rules. Most mandates that exist allow medical exemptions. | |||
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" Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? Nope. Allow those who are vaccinated. Allow those who can't be vaccinated. Others: tough shit." That surely defeats the object of what the rule is trying to achieve. Ok, it may reduce it somewhat. But it still defeats it. | |||
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" Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? Nope. Allow those who are vaccinated. Allow those who can't be vaccinated. Others: tough shit. That surely defeats the object of what the rule is trying to achieve. Ok, it may reduce it somewhat. But it still defeats it. " That's the way vaccine mandates work elsewhere. Compassionate exemptions. Those who cannot be vaccinated (generally - here children make that harder) are a tiny fraction of the population and thus pose a tiny risk. Vaccine refusers pose a real risk. | |||
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" can people hightlight the usefulness of a vaccine passport in a domestic setting if there is already herd immunity. what exactly do people think is being protected by it's introduction and how?" The usefulness of the vacine passport will not depend on herd immunity but more on how businesses react to the possibility of dealing with a lack of herd immunity. Most business owners will admit one of their biggest compulsory expence is insurance, whether it be buildings stock or public liability (as mentioned earlier). Most large companies will have to reduce their overheads to try and recoupe some of their lost revenue over the last year. And keeping their compulsory expenditures as low as possible will be one of their aims, therefore if herd immunity is acheived or not if they can reduce their costs and possible future claims by insisting people provide proof of a vaccination then this will be the case hence it will be helpfull to business owners but may also provide additional public confidence to cetain sectors For instance who would visit a bar, hotel or restaurant knowing it had no public health checks and was just left to its own devices and had been closed previously for cases of food poisoning as aposed to the similar venue that had a 5? public health award and could provide proof where all its products had been sourced and had never had a case of food poisoning. Unfortunately in the world we live in money talks Does this answer your question ? | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? Absolutely! Perfect example. What if I own property abroad yet I have to be vaccinated to go there. But, as I've explained already, I cannot be vaccinated. What do I do? Its my property. I own it. Possibly have paid taxes in that country for many years. Yet under the rules do I get banned? Even if I'm healthy? Depends on the country's rules. Most mandates that exist allow medical exemptions." Exactly right. So now we're back to the situation of 'its mandatory except for those exempt". What if the numbers of those exempt are too high for the rule to be effective? Its a moral (not to mention legal) minefield that will cause yet further issues sadly. | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? Absolutely! Perfect example. What if I own property abroad yet I have to be vaccinated to go there. But, as I've explained already, I cannot be vaccinated. What do I do? Its my property. I own it. Possibly have paid taxes in that country for many years. Yet under the rules do I get banned? Even if I'm healthy? Depends on the country's rules. Most mandates that exist allow medical exemptions. Exactly right. So now we're back to the situation of 'its mandatory except for those exempt". What if the numbers of those exempt are too high for the rule to be effective? Its a moral (not to mention legal) minefield that will cause yet further issues sadly. " Medical exemptions are a tiny fraction of the population. I found a CDC site on school medical exemptions (school vaccine mandates exist in the US) and the highest bracket on their legend was below 1%. It's an acceptable level of risk, and one worth taking | |||
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"Not a good thing, discrimination forcing people to take the vaccine. Nope. Not discrimination. Not force. Choices and consequences. Why should you have to choose taking something you don't want, just so you can go to the pub etc? By definition try going into same said pub totally wankered off your trolley.. The right to admit is down to them.. Totally different.... Can't see how everyone thinks this is a good idea. Even with the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch the so called virus. More controlling methods by the government. " “So called virus”  . | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? Absolutely! Perfect example. What if I own property abroad yet I have to be vaccinated to go there. But, as I've explained already, I cannot be vaccinated. What do I do? Its my property. I own it. Possibly have paid taxes in that country for many years. Yet under the rules do I get banned? Even if I'm healthy? Depends on the country's rules. Most mandates that exist allow medical exemptions. Exactly right. So now we're back to the situation of 'its mandatory except for those exempt". What if the numbers of those exempt are too high for the rule to be effective? Its a moral (not to mention legal) minefield that will cause yet further issues sadly. Medical exemptions are a tiny fraction of the population. I found a CDC site on school medical exemptions (school vaccine mandates exist in the US) and the highest bracket on their legend was below 1%. It's an acceptable level of risk, and one worth taking " Those figures are gleaned from vaccines used year in and year out and are for want of a better word tried and tested. We don't yet know the implications of the brand new Covid vaccine (which is why I was advised to err on the side of caution) with it being so new. Hey, hopefully it will fall into the lower brackets of the others used in US schools and will be ok. But we simply do not know yet. Most people haven't had the 2nd dose yet so its impossible to say. We'll know at some point down the road though! | |||
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"I am still at a loss at to why so many people on here seem to believe the vaccine is this 'magic bullet' and that as long as you've had the jab you're suddenly immortal and therefore automatically able to enjoy anything of choice completely risk free but anyone who hasn't had the vaccine should be banned from life itself. Ok I'm paraphrasing a tad but it makes the point. As many have already succinctly pointed out the vaccine simply does not yield such a protection. With this crucial information in mind I have to question if those clamouring for an instant rule to be put in place - as this post's author seems to suggesting (I'm happy to be corrected if I've misconstrued their intention) - have actually thought this through fully. As opposed to a "oh well that would suit me so yes I'll go with it" response. How do you implement your new rule? What about a couple where one partner in vaccinated but the other can't have it? Are they both banned from pubs etc? For how long? Life? See where the problem lies? And that is just one example. So sure the idea may seem a good one on paper. I fully understand where you are coming from. But how you implement it in the real world is another issue altogether. The main reason I bring this point up is that I personally am unable to be vaccinated. But yet I'm healthy, keep quite fit for may age and haven't had a day off sick from work since (touch wood) 2012 now. Yet under your rules I will seemingly never be able to set foot in a pub, club or restaurant. Ever again. And I haven't even touched on the subject of people's right to choose whether to be vaccinated as that too is another question altogether. In my case I do not have the luxury of choice so I have to ask these questions as to who should be banned? From what? And for how long? Gets a bit tricky doesn't it? I understand your reasoning domestically, but what about the International travel aspect? Where Countries insist on proof of vaccination in order to be admitted, should I for instance give up on my place I've bought in France and been renovating for the past couple of years, if Europe insist on vaccination proof, but the UK decide not to go down that route? Absolutely! Perfect example. What if I own property abroad yet I have to be vaccinated to go there. But, as I've explained already, I cannot be vaccinated. What do I do? Its my property. I own it. Possibly have paid taxes in that country for many years. Yet under the rules do I get banned? Even if I'm healthy? Depends on the country's rules. Most mandates that exist allow medical exemptions. Exactly right. So now we're back to the situation of 'its mandatory except for those exempt". What if the numbers of those exempt are too high for the rule to be effective? Its a moral (not to mention legal) minefield that will cause yet further issues sadly. Medical exemptions are a tiny fraction of the population. I found a CDC site on school medical exemptions (school vaccine mandates exist in the US) and the highest bracket on their legend was below 1%. It's an acceptable level of risk, and one worth taking Those figures are gleaned from vaccines used year in and year out and are for want of a better word tried and tested. We don't yet know the implications of the brand new Covid vaccine (which is why I was advised to err on the side of caution) with it being so new. Hey, hopefully it will fall into the lower brackets of the others used in US schools and will be ok. But we simply do not know yet. Most people haven't had the 2nd dose yet so its impossible to say. We'll know at some point down the road though! " The lower bracket of medical exemptions in US schools is 0.1%. | |||
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"Actually amazed by how many people on here support health passport's if everyone continues to support all this when will it ever end ? Our freedom's and liberty's will slowly disappear and we will have absolutely no privacy in our lives.But i suppose its another weapon in the arsenal for the powers that be to make the changes they want and it just seems to be dividing people which is unfortunate going forward in a time when as a nation we should be coming together. And to think the people who were talking about all this early last year were called crazy fool's." Very true, the people who were warning about covid passports last year were dismissed as conspiracy theory loonies by the same people who are now lapping up all this covid passport crap. | |||
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"Sell the fear then sell the cure.Onr day not so long ago the government poo poo'd the idea of a vaccine passport.Now the subtle manipulation has begun.Why stop at a 'vaccine passport',insist the ease of being chipped instead,eh?.The passport merely means big business for all the usual suspects.Does anyone remember an odious party that made undesirables wearing various coloured stars on their clothes.History never repeats itself does it "
I miss the summer when Boris was Hitler for closing pubs at 10. Such innocent times.
We really have no way of saying "I don't like this" without jumping to the Holocaust, apparently. | |||
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"Actually amazed by how many people on here support health passport's if everyone continues to support all this when will it ever end ? Our freedom's and liberty's will slowly disappear and we will have absolutely no privacy in our lives.But i suppose its another weapon in the arsenal for the powers that be to make the changes they want and it just seems to be dividing people which is unfortunate going forward in a time when as a nation we should be coming together. And to think the people who were talking about all this early last year were called crazy fool's." In reply to this. As already mentioned if you own a phone use the internet have a chip and pin bank card drive a newish car, walk around in public, use a sat nav or have a smart speaker. You have no real privacy. Your can only have total privacy if you disown all modern tech and live offgrid ( so i have been told ?). Friends of our are not allowed smart speakers at home due to their jobs as they constantly listen in on your conversations as do your phones sky q and most google tech . Unless you switch then off or disbale some of their features. But then that isn t fool proof. So a vaccine passport is a drop in the ocean of information already available about you | |||
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"Why does everyone think that being vaccinated suddenly means that you can't be a viral load carrier and pass it on or are 100% protected? The virus has and will mutate, it's probably here for the long term and will just have to be lived with. It's a pipe dream to think it's a 100% fix, although I do agree that it's a very positive step it's not a fix all and people still need to be responsible." They don't and I've no idea where you got that ridiculous idea from | |||
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"Why does everyone think that being vaccinated suddenly means that you can't be a viral load carrier and pass it on or are 100% protected? The virus has and will mutate, it's probably here for the long term and will just have to be lived with. It's a pipe dream to think it's a 100% fix, although I do agree that it's a very positive step it's not a fix all and people still need to be responsible. They don't and I've no idea where you got that ridiculous idea from " It's a strawman argument. If they argue that we think that vaccine passports are unicorns and will fix everything, therefore we're wrong and stupid. Well it's a stupid argument, but I'm not making it... | |||
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"Why does everyone think that being vaccinated suddenly means that you can't be a viral load carrier and pass it on or are 100% protected? The virus has and will mutate, it's probably here for the long term and will just have to be lived with. It's a pipe dream to think it's a 100% fix, although I do agree that it's a very positive step it's not a fix all and people still need to be responsible. They don't and I've no idea where you got that ridiculous idea from " I got the idea from reading and listening to people. Can you please explain, in a sensible and logical manner, why it is ridiculous to come to that conclusion? | |||
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"So the younger generation can start pubbing and clubbing again in like... 2 years yeah? Seems a little agist especially as everyone keeps telling us we've got to stay home for the greater good of the older generation..." First jab offered to adults by July, so... the autumn, yeah? | |||
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"I've just realised why shares in tinfoil companies have gone sky high. E" | |||
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"I've just realised why shares in tinfoil companies have gone sky high. E" you can rest easy now then | |||
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"If the passport was a card without a chip or smart technology, i would be all for it. However if its chipped etc then it could easily turn into a type of id card, if it was linked to a smartphone app like the nhs one as some are suggesting, it becomes a tracker. Not in favour of Covid PPT but gotta say... You do realise that you are already able to be tracked easily right? Unless you don’t own a mobile, don’t drive, don’t go on the internet, only pay in cash and somehow manage to avoid all CCTV then you are able to be tracked now! Just saying!" Indeed. So much is known about us anyway by any and all of the ways you mention previously. In truth, it's the one's who don't want to be tracked you need to keep an eye on. They exist in the "shadowlands" which affords them some privacy protection. However, that also obfuscates law enforcement too. Although I suspect the biggest criminals of all hide in plain sight, which is also an interesting strategy. | |||
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