FabSwingers.com forum: Jab or Job

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Get the jab or lose your job.. what would you do?

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Jab. But I'm going to get the jab anyway.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Iv had mine

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

"Jab. But I'm going to get the jab anyway."

same here !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jab

But already had it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its a no brainer getting jab anyway

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway"

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet"

It'll be an interesting social and legal issue if it comes to that.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules.."

Not wanting a vaccine does not mean someone is an idiot, there's many reasons including medical issues which means some can't..

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

As said before I think this will be driven by insurance.

If you want business insurance and the underrighters say you staff must have the jab then there it is.

So would you expect all flight crew to be vaccinated if you have to be and have a negative covid test to fly.

And if so I guess air port employed

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules..

Not wanting a vaccine does not mean someone is an idiot, there's many reasons including medical issues which means some can't.."

Fully understand there are medical exemptions.. but to not take vaccine puts you in same bracket as those who says "i reckon i had it back in june".. those same people didnt isolate and carried on working., probably spreading it. Selfish.

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By *oved Up 2Couple
over a year ago

nottingham

Both had our 1st jab. Can't wait for the 2nd

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules..

Not wanting a vaccine does not mean someone is an idiot, there's many reasons including medical issues which means some can't..

We're convinced we had it November 2019 and we didn't isolate, how selfish of us!!

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By *w79Man
over a year ago

Stalbridge

Jab.

But I'm waiting for mine anyway.

Personally my opinion is where something like this is a global issue.

It should be mandatory... Unless you have been told the medical professionals that you can't have it due to being allergic to something in it.

But you will be contacted ASAP once a vaccination that is compatible with you is available.

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By *achel SmythTV/TS
over a year ago

Farnborough

There are those who don’t want it and will refuse .... but once they can’t get a job, go abroad, go to the cinema or the restaurant.. or function reasonably normally and realise oh fuck!! ... then they will conform!

... bit draconian to make such people realise that they need to do this - but they’ll see sense!

R x

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By *achel SmythTV/TS
over a year ago

Farnborough

Oh and by the way ...

Slag Bozza, the Govt, the NHS, the military, and local authorities off all you like ... to get 15 million folk offered vaccines (even if Fuckwitts refuse) in 7 weeks is god dammed amazing

.... I get mine on Monday ... bring it on -can’t wait.. respect to all

R. X

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

"Get the jab or lose your job.. what would you do?"
I've already had my first one but had I not then I'd take the jab.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Already been told if we don't have the jab, we won't have a job.

I will be having the jab.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet

It'll be an interesting social and legal issue if it comes to that."

A mate works for a business that helps companies with employment law, he reckons it will come into play soon enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No jab for us. If it costs us our jobs then fine, we are at that age and level of financial security we dont really care. As we are originally from Jersey all our interests are protected. All you lovely tax payers can keep us until we can claim our pensions

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By *nholy TrinityCouple (MM)
over a year ago

leeds/york

"Oh and by the way ...

Slag Bozza, the Govt, the NHS, the military, and local authorities off all you like ... to get 15 million folk offered vaccines (even if Fuckwitts refuse) in 7 weeks is god dammed amazing

.... I get mine on Monday ... bring it on -can’t wait.. respect to all

R. X"

Have to echo this, and I’m in no way a fan of the current government, but this is a success story and all involved deserve applauding

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone with any common sence would take the vaccine in the post covid world to come

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

So would you be happy in a coffins space like an airport or large venue with others that have not been vacenated.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"No jab for us. If it costs us our jobs then fine, we are at that age and level of financial security we dont really care. As we are originally from Jersey all our interests are protected. All you lovely tax payers can keep us until we can claim our pensions "

So you would give up on travel sport theater pubs etc

Guess it's ok if you have a big pot of cash but not meny do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules..

Not wanting a vaccine does not mean someone is an idiot, there's many reasons including medical issues which means some can't.."

There was a news report the other day saying some people with certain blood conditions can't have either of the vaccines currently being used in the UK but the moderna that is licenced here but not yet in use is a possibility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its a no brainer getting jab anyway

You say that. Plenty of idiots out there.. same idiots whochave refused to follow Lockdown rules..

Not wanting a vaccine does not mean someone is an idiot, there's many reasons including medical issues which means some can't..

We're convinced we had it November 2019 and we didn't isolate, how selfish of us!! "

Totally different issue.

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By *amaraBeaverbankWoman
over a year ago

Benidorm Spain

I’ll be getting my jag as soon as I’m offered it. Anyone refusing to get the vaccine without good reason is, in my humble opinion, utterly selfish!

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

"I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

So would you be happy in a coffins space like an airport or large venue with others that have not been vacenated. "

The OP was ~ Get the jab or lose your job.. what would you do?

Which is what my post relates to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You wouldn't be eligible for state benefits. If You have savings you have to live off those and if you are not working you will have to claim job seekers allowance, if you are not actively looking for work and accept any job offer then you be entitled to nothing.

So your choice to not work but you would have to support yourselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

A vaccine certificate is mandatory in many countries for access to education so why is it ridiculous?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

Its not forced its a choice.

But others have a choice not to employ you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

*Nuremberg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

Its not forced its a choice.

But others have a choice not to employ you. "

It won't be long before someone takes this on in court. It won't stick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

Its not forced its a choice.

But others have a choice not to employ you.

It won't be long before someone takes this on in court. It won't stick. "

Yes it will stick. For many years some employers have made it mandatory for their employees to have the hep C vaccine so it's already in existence.

Iv had 3 jobs where unless I was medically exempt a job offer was dependent on me having had or to have the hepatitis c jab.

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

"I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

A vaccine certificate is mandatory in many countries for access to education so why is it ridiculous?"

Not in this country. I will cross that bridge if it comes to it, my children will make their own choice as to whether they have it or not.

'Choice' being the operative word there. Don't you think people should be able to choose what they put into their bodies?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would have to seriously consider losing my job. No one is going to dictate to me what I put in my body. And to the person who said it should be mandatory how ridiculous

A vaccine certificate is mandatory in many countries for access to education so why is it ridiculous?

Not in this country. I will cross that bridge if it comes to it, my children will make their own choice as to whether they have it or not.

'Choice' being the operative word there. Don't you think people should be able to choose what they put into their bodies?"

Yes you can absolutely choose but don't be surprised if someone also uses their right to choose not to employ you or let you in their country.

I can choose not to abide by my employers rules and they can choose to terminate my contract.

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By *argoyleMan
over a year ago

dudley

Lots of job types already require you to have had jabs against all sorts of things. For example I believe that undertakers and people who handle the deceased don't get the necessary licence unless they've been vaccinated against all manner of ailments.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"Isn't a forced medical procedure against the nuremburg code?

Its not forced its a choice.

But others have a choice not to employ you.

It won't be long before someone takes this on in court. It won't stick. "

So you think that if you want a mortgage and part of the life insurances medical is having a vacsien you would just not own a home. It could also be part of car insurance so would not drive and if traveling on transport insist on it you would be walking

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By *ussymufferMan
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

How long did it take to develop the hepC jab this covid jab is not been on the go six months yet no one knows what will happen next year at this time with side effects lots getting reaction from jab but but government keeps it quite

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"Lots of job types already require you to have had jabs against all sorts of things. For example I believe that undertakers and people who handle the deceased don't get the necessary licence unless they've been vaccinated against all manner of ailments."

Yet and you can't work as a Nurse with out hep b and c I guess same for doctors and Sami in fresh water companies so it's not even a new thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How long did it take to develop the hepC jab this covid jab is not been on the go six months yet no one knows what will happen next year at this time with side effects lots getting reaction from jab but but government keeps it quite "

There has never been a mass vaccine roll out but has had mass severe casualties.

Yes of course some people will have an adverse reaction but you could say the same for a general anaesthetic but because for the majority of people it's safe so considered an acceptable risk.

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By *amaraBeaverbankWoman
over a year ago

Benidorm Spain

People do seem to forget, or maybe they don’t realise, the most time consuming aspect of ANY vaccine is the funding aspect.

This virus has closed the entire planet more or less, so every country is chucking money at it... this cuts down years waiting before it gets near the public (I believe average is up to 10 years)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet and you can't work as a Nurse with out hep b and c I guess same for doctors and Sami in fresh water companies so it's not even a new thing "

I used this example the other day branch you think it's quite a good one. Many jobs require you have a DBS check to protect others, if you choose not to have one or wont pass one you won't get the job.

If an employer feels you would be a risk to others they can choose not to employ you.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet

It'll be an interesting social and legal issue if it comes to that.

A mate works for a business that helps companies with employment law, he reckons it will come into play soon enough."

It is certainly possible that the norms will shift.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

It was deemed illegal under the infectious disease control acts...it's no different now and if this has went airborne as I suspect it has given auatralia & NZ's recent activity despite all efforts then it's a live with situation...YOU will have to make up your own mind so learn the subtle changes when a potential onset of something is occuring and react....I don't need gov to tell me to do so i'm intellegent to risk assess myself thanks

Fear cannot rule our thinking's

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

not to proof read though ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet

It'll be an interesting social and legal issue if it comes to that.

A mate works for a business that helps companies with employment law, he reckons it will come into play soon enough.

It is certainly possible that the norms will shift."

Yes exactly and people that think it will never happen could well be in for a shock.

I remember when I could Smoke in a pub, It was banned in public spaces to protect public health so there is precedent for laws being changed permanently for public health reasons.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's "

The EHCR allows vaccine mandates

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"See so many posts of people claiming not to want nor will they take it.. what happens when work places start asking for employees to have it..

All change their tune then i bet

It'll be an interesting social and legal issue if it comes to that.

A mate works for a business that helps companies with employment law, he reckons it will come into play soon enough.

It is certainly possible that the norms will shift.

Yes exactly and people that think it will never happen could well be in for a shock.

I remember when I could Smoke in a pub, It was banned in public spaces to protect public health so there is precedent for laws being changed permanently for public health reasons.

I'm not going to predict anything, but those saying that it'll never happen, that it's impossible... The framework already exists, I don't think the shift in legal position would be huge (not a lawyer). And I suspect that it wouldn't be widely unpopular.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's "

But nobody is forcing anybody to have a vaccine.

There are many jobs that have certain requirements, Many already require you to have certain vaccines, Lots of countries have already said they are almost certainly going to require people to have had the vaccine before they enter, Many employers have already said they will require all employees to have had the vaccine.

You can Legally discriminate against somebody in employment if it would be unsafe for them or others.

I think people are gonna get a big shock when they realise there is nothing stopping employers saying if you don't have the covid vaccine you can't work here.

If you are medically exempt thats a different kettle of fish.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's "

So could you advertise a new role and state you need to have had the jab

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's

So could you advertise a new role and state you need to have had the jab "

No, its also discrimination against those who cannot have it for various reasons...which is largely the disability sector so it also fails under the disabilities and equality's acts.

I do aplogise for my spelling & grammer...tired

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced. "

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's

So could you advertise a new role and state you need to have had the jab

No, its also discrimination against those who cannot have it for various reasons...which is largely the disability sector so it also fails under the disabilities and equality's acts.

I do aplogise for my spelling & grammer...tired "

Most employers have said they will employ someone who is medically exempt which is why they wont employ someone who just refuses to have it on principle to protect those they employ that can't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"that them to court for unfair dismissal...

it is illegal under the human rights act to be coerced into having any medical treatment including vaccines for a job, home, freedoms or other wise...

it is internationally illegal & any medical person giving jabs knowingly under these circumstances are also doing so illegally as they are aiding coercion.

you give up freedoms to easily in a blind panic and promise of safety and you won't get them back...freedoms are important in all areas as are ethics.

Lose them you lose democracy, you quickly loose other freedoms along with them and we'll go backwards in our thinking...

put it this way they reacted similarly in the HIV epidemic, locking folk away and testing without permission etc and that had a 100% kill rate before they found a medication for it.

Fear cannot rule our thinking's

So could you advertise a new role and state you need to have had the jab

No, its also discrimination against those who cannot have it for various reasons...which is largely the disability sector so it also fails under the disabilities and equality's acts.

I do aplogise for my spelling & grammer...tired

Most employers have said they will employ someone who is medically exempt which is why they wont employ someone who just refuses to have it on principle to protect those they employ that can't."

Look up how many job roles require you to have had the hepatitis C vaccine in the UKI think you will be surprised.

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By *argoyleMan
over a year ago

dudley

Mandatory vaccination has been used before :-

United Kingdom Vaccination Act 1853

The Vaccination Act 1853 made it compulsory for all children born after 1 August 1853 to be vaccinated against smallpox during their first 3 months of life. Parents who failed to get their children vaccinated would be subject to legal action.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced. "

Then why do several countries in the EU, and many internationally, have vaccine mandates?

Why has Brazil recently affirmed that local vaccine mandates are permissible?

I believe you're incorrect.

It is likely true that you can't be, I don't know, held down and jabbed. But no one is suggesting that. It is possible - and plenty of precedent exists - that people without vaccines might face penalties or be excluded from certain activities, etc.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Mandatory vaccination has been used before :-

United Kingdom Vaccination Act 1853

It is not part of current UK norms, but what you've pointed out is, I believe, the world's first vaccine mandate. From the UK.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already. "

in niche sectors such as care & icu nurse where it is an incredible risk to both parties it is certainly encouraged but it isn't forced these people d it by their own choice and knew the likely hood of these things often long before or they certainly should know if they are in the care sector since infection and disease control is important....as we have seen its failed.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

start forcing and where does it end? especially if you call it in the interest of public health over a natural thing, herd immunity works when 60% are vaccinated (approx). there is no need to force as plenty as willing.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison. "

Who's forcing?

If having a vaccine is a requirement of a certain job and you don't want the vaccine, you don't get that job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison. "

Yes because people who work in those sectors are considered high risk so now we have a new virus where people who work for the nhs, In education, care and many many more sectors could vary legally and legitimately be told no jab no job.

The government will not make it mandatory but employers and insurance companies may well make it condition to being employed or having insurance.

You have a choice but so do they.

As a smoker I pay much high premiums for life insurance, I choose to smoke if I choose to stop smoking I will pay less.

If you choose to have the vaccine you will also pay less or find that you can now be employed by certain sectors.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison.

The government will not make it mandatory but employers and insurance companies may well make it condition to being employed or having insurance.

You have a choice but so do they.

As a smoker I pay much high premiums for life insurance, I choose to smoke if I choose to stop smoking I will pay less.

If you choose to have the vaccine you will also pay less or find that you can now be employed by certain sectors. "

the high risk sectors I have never had any interest in working in because as you say high risk & not for me both in personality and the expectations. I much prefer outside & animals.

insurance again, smoking is unnatural, known to case health issues that lead to the inevitable death...I'm high risk with my ADHD ....good luck trying to insure me in the first place as my life expectancy is pension age if I'm lucky...so again not an issue and certain jobs I cannot do for the same reason anyway, like healthcare as I can't even remember to take my own meds...never mind give them to someone else.

see there lies your thoughts in force..it's not, it's encouraged and most folk as we have agreed know these are expected of them.

penalties & limitations are not the same as force...any sector without a very valid reason for strongly insisting would be in trouble.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison.

The government will not make it mandatory but employers and insurance companies may well make it condition to being employed or having insurance.

You have a choice but so do they.

As a smoker I pay much high premiums for life insurance, I choose to smoke if I choose to stop smoking I will pay less.

If you choose to have the vaccine you will also pay less or find that you can now be employed by certain sectors.

the high risk sectors I have never had any interest in working in because as you say high risk & not for me both in personality and the expectations. I much prefer outside & animals.

see there lies your thoughts in force..it's not, it's encouraged and most folk as we have agreed know these are expected of them.

penalties & limitations are not the same as force...any sector without a very valid reason for strongly insisting would be in trouble. "

So if All passengers on a plane have to be vaccinated to fly you are saying the crew would not have to be. Is that not pointless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not medical treatment can be administered by force or coercion.

legally it'll take 1 court case since international law exceeds all others the EHCR are irrelevant and even still they cannot be forced.

You are not understanding it will not be forced however there may be certain jobs you can not apply for that is totally lawful as it happens already.

its a bit like a vet getting a rabies jab ....its a bit DUH...the risk it obviously there in that sector, it makes sense, but not forced.

smoking is not a natural thing so has no comparison.

The government will not make it mandatory but employers and insurance companies may well make it condition to being employed or having insurance.

You have a choice but so do they.

As a smoker I pay much high premiums for life insurance, I choose to smoke if I choose to stop smoking I will pay less.

If you choose to have the vaccine you will also pay less or find that you can now be employed by certain sectors.

the high risk sectors I have never had any interest in working in because as you say high risk & not for me both in personality and the expectations. I much prefer outside & animals.

see there lies your thoughts in force..it's not, it's encouraged and most folk as we have agreed know these are expected of them.

penalties & limitations are not the same as force...any sector without a very valid reason for strongly insisting would be in trouble. "

You keep saying smoking is unnatural and yes it is however I have diabetes which was hereditary from my mother so totally natural.

When I go on holiday my premium for travel insurance is about 3 times higher than that of my travelling companion that does not have diabetes.

So like I said the things you are complaining you are worried are going to happen have been happening for decades. Also my ADHD and autism hasn't stopped me working in education or health care or ever had a premium on my travel insurance. Also ADHD does not limit life expectancy.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

plus where logically is the need for force when we've vaccinated from the vulnerable to frontline down to the least vunerable?

kids got a running nose don't go to nana's.

it's called personal responsibility. I can more than do than on my own since I know the subtle tickles and such when something is invading, other should learn the same and employers need to stop insisting folk are in work when they are unwell (the move to work at home helps) SSP needs a serious upgrade especially for the lowest earners, who literally cannot afford to miss out on pay (first 3 days in 26 are not paid) and to a hand to mouth livers they cannot afford to do it, many were using food banks before covid.

Many more issues than just covid related ones and if they were corrected it would help infection control.

Most folk have now had a big wake up call not to be so selfish and go out when you suspect your ill.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

penalties & limitations are not the same as force...any sector without a very valid reason for strongly insisting would be in trouble. "

You may think so.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"plus where logically is the need for force when we've vaccinated from the vulnerable to frontline down to the least vunerable?

kids got a running nose don't go to nana's.

Many more issues than just covid related ones and if they were corrected it would help infection control.

Most folk have now had a big wake up call not to be so selfish and go out when you suspect your ill. "

No one is forcing anyone to have a jab.

Hope this helps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will be honest ... I have anxiety about this. To be forced to do something feels like r*pe. Its horrible that some are taking pleasure in knowing people will be forced to do it for the sake of feeding their kids, despite having real concerns. I'm not talking about anxiety like I'm a bit scared, I'm talking about not sleeping and panic attacks and nausea.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"plus where logically is the need for force when we've vaccinated from the vulnerable to frontline down to the least vunerable?

kids got a running nose don't go to nana's.

Many more issues than just covid related ones and if they were corrected it would help infection control.

Most folk have now had a big wake up call not to be so selfish and go out when you suspect your ill. "

Sep is a hard one I just had 3 weeks off covid so wish it was more but if it was more would I be rushing back ooohhh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will be honest ... I have anxiety about this. To be forced to do something feels like r*pe. Its horrible that some are taking pleasure in knowing people will be forced to do it for the sake of feeding their kids, despite having real concerns. I'm not talking about anxiety like I'm a bit scared, I'm talking about not sleeping and panic attacks and nausea. "

WOW lets not even draw that comparison! Thing you are suggesting is not a choice however not having a vaccine is a complete choice. Nobody is taking pleasure but let's be honest this is a public health emergency so drastic steps are going to need to be taken so that the majority can live a perfectly normal life.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

SSP not Sep

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

I'm not quite that bad but it does kick off my PTSD too, There are laws all over the place that say you cannot be forced into medical treatments and various other things, most of our laws surround the freedom factor as do international ones. It breaks all international laws and I'm sorry but you cannot prevent every death by every thing as death is a natural and necessary part of life...you just cant & its insane to think so.

doesn't matter if your a virus or a human the cycle is the same for us all.

for the member above you - it does become for if they all do it instead of just the high risk sectors which as discussed is known before entering the sector.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I said a lot on this subject so I am going to be leaving it here, I will just say I would not advocate anybody to be forced to have a vaccine or any medication.

That is not what is happening I am a 100% certain the government is not going to make it mandatory however I do feel it is highly likely and has already started to happen that some employers are going to say you cannot work here if you cannot prove you have had the covid vaccine or are medically exempt.

I am certain there will still be jobs available for those who choose not to have it.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"SSP not Sep"

you knew what i meant & i've already picked at myself for spelling, grammar and not proof reading cos i'm tired and it late...cant sleep though cos my brain is going million miles

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

doesn't matter if your a virus or a human the cycle is the same for us all.

for the member above you - it does become for if they all do it instead of just the high risk sectors which as discussed is known before entering the sector."

If vaccine mandates breached international law, then we'd know. Vaccine mandates are not uncommon globally. They're permitted under EHCR law as well, as noted, and I'd guess that the EHCR knows a thing or two about international law. Just maybe.

I'm sorry you don't know the meaning of the word "force", but you are utterly incorrect. Force here means involuntary treatment. Government mandate means you can be punished. This is less than a government mandate. This would be employers adding stipulations to employment.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"SSP not Sep

you knew what i meant & i've already picked at myself for spelling, grammar and not proof reading cos i'm tired and it late...cant sleep though cos my brain is going million miles"

Its not late it's early 3 am is an early time no

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

doesn't matter if your a virus or a human the cycle is the same for us all.

for the member above you - it does become for if they all do it instead of just the high risk sectors which as discussed is known before entering the sector.

force is not limited to psychical it includes mental coercion also, as state you'll find fine examples of force in sex, domestic, family, medical and even employment laws and yes i agree we are not at the point of force yet but if people keep pushing through fear (which is what this is& have been conditioned to by the media coverage over the past year...also in question btw due to extent and the extreme emotive suggesting murder).

It is teetering on the fine line between being encouraged & being forced. if all employers insist on the vaccine then it becomes force and coercion and is not longer free choice.

this is why you have folk like me are shouting no! its more than just an issue over covid and its vaccine, it extends much further.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

*sigh*

Ok. Force is certainly a sliding scale in some circumstances.

However, vaccine mandates exist in many places, have been upheld as permissible in distinct jurisdictions, etc.

What's being discussed here is *less* than a vaccine mandate.

You can say no all you like, but that is the international position. Mandates are unlikely to become the position in the UK if we trust what the government is currently saying. That does not mean that vaccines might not be required for certain parts of life in the UK.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

doesn't matter if your a virus or a human the cycle is the same for us all.

for the member above you - it does become for if they all do it instead of just the high risk sectors which as discussed is known before entering the sector.

It is teetering on the fine line between being encouraged & being forced. if all employers insist on the vaccine then it becomes force and coercion and is not longer free choice.

this is why you have folk like me are shouting no! its more than just an issue over covid and its vaccine, it extends much further."

It would never be all jobs as lots now work from home.

it extends much further how?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The "fine line" between employment requirements and forced medical treatment violating international law is as fine as the geographical line between New York City and London.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"The "fine line" between employment requirements and forced medical treatment violating international law is as fine as the geographical line between New York City and London."

Lots of county's violate international law and now one gives a sh1t anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I said a lot on this subject so I am going to be leaving it here, I will just say I would not advocate anybody to be forced to have a vaccine or any medication.

I am certain there will still be jobs available for those who choose not to have it. "

But I would be forced to leave the job I have done and put my whole life into, committed and whole heart into every day since I was 16. I wear all PPE at work 4 x 14 hour shifts a week, mask, shield, gloves, apron and wash my hands and arms til they are sore at the end of the day. If this doesn't show commitment enough that I care about other peoples health to my own detriment (its hard wearing all that PPE for 14 hours) but I don't want to take a vaccine. I see a lot in my industry that blatantly don't care but it would force like people like me that do care, into other probably lower paid jobs when I've worked hard to get to where I am and my family have been through all that with me. To see me possibly lose my job and not be able to feed my children if I don't have the vaccine. If you are all good with that then good for you, but it doesn't sit right with me at all. This will force peoples mental health even more down the toilet, suicides, yeah thats gonna go up to. But who cares yeah?

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"*sigh*

Ok. Force is certainly a sliding scale in some circumstances.

However, vaccine mandates exist in many places, have been upheld as permissible in distinct jurisdictions, etc.

What's being discussed here is *less* than a vaccine mandate.

i don't know why you sigh when you agree in many areas, I know currently it is not forced but we are facing new laws all the time that are not being put before parliment due to being under COBRA, it is a valid worry for many who know all to well how laws that seem to protect the public interest are not always that way.

there is reports of those with learning disabilities being given DNR's which is also illegal as they are not fit to understand them.....there is so much going on and we need to be alert & question and discuss things that look like a good idea but are not in the larger sense, they give away to much power to the few to decide over our lives (and no one wants to live under a dictatorship.) especially since these laws are set by those far out of touch with the lives of a lower earning working families and policies made by the same and often profit driven decisions.

freedom of choice also includes things like choosing how you earn

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"*sigh*

Ok. Force is certainly a sliding scale in some circumstances.

However, vaccine mandates exist in many places, have been upheld as permissible in distinct jurisdictions, etc.

What's being discussed here is *less* than a vaccine mandate.

freedom of choice also includes things like choosing how you earn "

Freedom is never complete and is always balanced by other considerations. You may have to balance competing values, if it comes to it.

This does not mean I agree with human rights abuses. I just do not think that employers being permitted to require vaccination is anywhere near that. I think the interests of public health often override individual liberty, at least in part (as this last year has shown us in spades).

I don't know what will happen, I don't know where it should fall, but I think your point is at best wildly exaggerated.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"The "fine line" between employment requirements and forced medical treatment violating international law is as fine as the geographical line between New York City and London.

Lots of county's violate international law and now one gives a sh1t anyway. "

you have freedom to challenge/prosecute them in court

It only takes one case to expose them, bear in mind a lot of people sign non disclosure type docs in exchange for large sums of cash...that is their freedom to do so but leaves others open to future abuse as we are seeing with all these old crimes being dug up now.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"The "fine line" between employment requirements and forced medical treatment violating international law is as fine as the geographical line between New York City and London.

Lots of county's violate international law and now one gives a sh1t anyway. I'm thinking of the crimes in China that are going on now or the crimes against farmers in India at the moment how is stopping these crimes

you have freedom to challenge/prosecute them in court

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

"*sigh*

Ok. Force is certainly a sliding scale in some circumstances.

However, vaccine mandates exist in many places, have been upheld as permissible in distinct jurisdictions, etc.

What's being discussed here is *less* than a vaccine mandate.

freedom of choice also includes things like choosing how you earn

Freedom is never complete and is always balanced by other considerations. You may have to balance competing values, if it comes to it.

I don't know what will happen, I don't know where it should fall, but I think your point is at best wildly exaggerated."

And then sum

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The "fine line" between employment requirements and forced medical treatment violating international law is as fine as the geographical line between New York City and London.

Lots of county's violate international law and now one gives a sh1t anyway.

you have freedom to challenge/prosecute them in court

I'm pretty sure that if vaccine mandates, or employment requirements, violated international law, we'd know.

I am not associating anyone in this thread, in this forum, or on Fab with the following:

There are groups of anti vaxxers in the US who are... crazy is putting it mildly. They jump up and down, sue left right and centre, and perpetrate all sorts on their disabled "vaccine injured" children attempting to "cure" them. Huge victim narrative. People have made careers off this shit (Andrew Wakefield is among them). If they could sue the US government - who have vaccine mandates for children - they would! They'd make squillions if they could prove the US was in violation of international law.

*Again, the above paragraph is not about anyone on Fab in any way, shape or form*

Some businesses requiring vaccinations is so much less than that. So, so much less than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I said a lot on this subject so I am going to be leaving it here, I will just say I would not advocate anybody to be forced to have a vaccine or any medication.

I am certain there will still be jobs available for those who choose not to have it.

You are missing the point you will not be forced to leave your job.

You will have a choice to leave your job or do what is required to keep your job.

I don't think you understand the difference to be honest. I dont understand why are saying people wouldn't be able to feed their children because yes they can. there will be jobs available if people choose not to have the vaccine.

Choice works both ways you have a choice not to work somewhere that requires you to have a vaccine and they have a choice not to employ you.

Is nothing more or less than pool than that.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Choices have consequences. This isn't me being sinister or anything. It's just a fact.

If I eat that tub of ice cream I'll feel sick. If I spit in the street people might think I'm disgusting.

If I get a jab I might have a sore arm.

If I don't get a jab I might endanger people. If I don't get a jab I might face judgement or social consequences.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"*sigh*

Ok. Force is certainly a sliding scale in some circumstances.

However, vaccine mandates exist in many places, have been upheld as permissible in distinct jurisdictions, etc.

What's being discussed here is *less* than a vaccine mandate.

freedom of choice also includes things like choosing how you earn

Freedom is never complete and is always balanced by other considerations. You may have to balance competing values, if it comes to it.

I don't know what will happen, I don't know where it should fall, but I think your point is at best wildly exaggerated."

I get the when its put into numbers it looks large and extensive and that NHS is underfunded and stressed (even before covid) but we need to omit emotion and look at it analytically.

only 1% of scots have ever tested positive with covid which includes false positive from the over sensitive PCR tests which has been brought up several times by one of the lead oxford scientists.

5% of UK

survival rate 97% ....nothing is 100% remember especially in medical terms

0.13% of the population have died

now look at those and tell me how freedom breaching laws are required...on ons btw.

the r number has been forgotten about

we've vaccined the vulnerable first, the gen pop are less affected and there's no need for such freedom restrictions once herd immunity (60%) has been obtained.

these is no need for this level of fear to the point where some are basically screaming for tose who don't have a vaccine to be excluded from society & f off somewhere else to live all together as murders....the demands and fear people are projecting is just mental.....

I personally blame the media...never have we had death numbers shoved in our faces and made petrified of just chatting to another human...the psychological manipulation is extensive and yes I get they were well meaning in doing so but look what it has done to society....me as an invisible disabled person and an A symptomatic type (knew that long ago..I has kids & don't get sick when they do) there are many that are wanting to exclude me & others like me further out of society out of fear....it really is becoming online pitch fork mobs for anyone who questions it.