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"Im seeing reports of the furlough being extended until summer. With the vaccine roll out going well, plenty of people with some sort of antibodies, and a lot more having no symptoms, how are we not opening up the country again?" Only my opinion but the eat out scheme helped boost spending but kicked them in the ass by spreading more. Yes, I agree numbers are falling and I work in hospitality. I've done 17 days work since March so I'd love to get back. My partner is a nurse, the strain on NHS at the moment is still very high and will be for many months trying to catch up..... It's a tough choice and desicions to make...... | |||
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"The vaccine does not stop spread and the UK has only vaccinated around 20-25% of all the population, so opening up is still some weeks away and will be governed by factors around new cases, hospitalisation and deaths. The economy is essentially strong - Physical Retail Shops (not online), hospitality and events sectors aside, most of the economy is functioning normally, if at a somewhat reduced level. There will be a spike in unemployment when furlough ends - but there will be a huge appetite to get things going again quickly. " The vaccines are shown to reduce spread to the extent they've been studied, and they reduce disease severity and thus healthcare burden and loss of productivity. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" We've only just finished paying back for 'compensating' s#ave owners, it's how governments do things.. World wars etc.. How else do we pay for it? | |||
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"ultimately, the economy is rendered utterly irrelevant if there is not enough people to service it, through mortality and illness. chasing what once was will end in failure." Exactly. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" What else do you suggest? | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" Like we were proud to finish off paying reparations for certain practices you mean? Happy to finish off paying for world wars recently... about as proud as that? | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Like we were proud to finish off paying reparations for certain practices you mean? Happy to finish off paying for world wars recently... about as proud as that? " I'm sure that our grandchildren will look back and be proud that we stood together and protected each other. Blitz Spirit. Covid solidarity (not as catchy. Something like that) | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" What's the alternative, lots of business bust, massive unemployment, lots of homeless. Unless you have any better ideas? | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Like we were proud to finish off paying reparations for certain practices you mean? Happy to finish off paying for world wars recently... about as proud as that? I'm sure that our grandchildren will look back and be proud that we stood together and protected each other. Blitz Spirit. Covid solidarity (not as catchy. Something like that)" The blitz spirit where some people carried on partying through the air raids, there's a bit of that going on for sure 
The blitz spirit where people (who would now be described all sorts of stupid on facebook and forums) needed air raid wardens to wonder around reminding them to follow the rules, we often look back at history with rose tinted glasses, we can remember a World War that killed millions every November, yet a world wide pandemic of flu which happened more recently and killed millions is forgotten and the next pandemic becomes unprecedented. | |||
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"We won't be anywhere near safe levels of vaccination until the top 9 groups have been vaccinated. The people in the top 9 groups make up 93% of all hospital admissions. When that is done we can look at fully opening up but until then if we open up now we will just be looking at more hospital admissions but from people in the lower age groups including working age people. It make sense to keep be restrictions fairly tight for another month or 2 so we don't have to go through this again." So when you say tight schools do you think open or stay as it for a bit | |||
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"our descendants are more likely to be stunned and astonished at the ineptness of our government who managed to contribute to such a high death toll with very little protestation from wider society." This | |||
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"We won't be anywhere near safe levels of vaccination until the top 9 groups have been vaccinated. The people in the top 9 groups make up 93% of all hospital admissions. When that is done we can look at fully opening up but until then if we open up now we will just be looking at more hospital admissions but from people in the lower age groups including working age people. It make sense to keep be restrictions fairly tight for another month or 2 so we don't have to go through this again. So when you say tight schools do you think open or stay as it for a bit " Schools are staying closed until at least the 8th March. Most schools will not have full numbers back until mid March at the earliest. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Like we were proud to finish off paying reparations for certain practices you mean? Happy to finish off paying for world wars recently... about as proud as that? I'm sure that our grandchildren will look back and be proud that we stood together and protected each other. Blitz Spirit. Covid solidarity (not as catchy. Something like that) The blitz spirit where some people carried on partying through the air raids, there's a bit of that going on for sure
The blitz spirit where people (who would now be described all sorts of stupid on facebook and forums) needed air raid wardens to wonder around reminding them to follow the rules, we often look back at history with rose tinted glasses, we can remember a World War that killed millions every November, yet a world wide pandemic of flu which happened more recently and killed millions is forgotten and the next pandemic becomes unprecedented. "Lol yes but the romanticised version of it. Our great grandchildren making a patriotic movie about Covid-19 and how wonderful their ancestors were, sort of shit  | |||
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"i've been reading articles about the viable taxes the chancellor is interested in introducing to pay for the £5000 per month that some of the 'squeezed middle' have received from furlough. a new property tax payable to central government on top of the existing council tax appears to be top of the list." Furlough is a strange one some like my daughter have done very nicely out of it some not so well but it was drawn up quickly and was as usual one plan for lots. So yes some are benefiting. | |||
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"We won't be anywhere near safe levels of vaccination until the top 9 groups have been vaccinated. The people in the top 9 groups make up 93% of all hospital admissions. When that is done we can look at fully opening up but until then if we open up now we will just be looking at more hospital admissions but from people in the lower age groups including working age people. It make sense to keep be restrictions fairly tight for another month or 2 so we don't have to go through this again. So when you say tight schools do you think open or stay as it for a bit Schools are staying closed until at least the 8th March. Most schools will not have full numbers back until mid March at the earliest. " It's a hard one but yes I would like to see most schools close till after Easter not for all year but for most. | |||
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"We won't be anywhere near safe levels of vaccination until the top 9 groups have been vaccinated. The people in the top 9 groups make up 93% of all hospital admissions. When that is done we can look at fully opening up but until then if we open up now we will just be looking at more hospital admissions but from people in the lower age groups including working age people. It make sense to keep be restrictions fairly tight for another month or 2 so we don't have to go through this again. So when you say tight schools do you think open or stay as it for a bit Schools are staying closed until at least the 8th March. Most schools will not have full numbers back until mid March at the earliest. It's a hard one but yes I would like to see most schools close till after Easter not for all year but for most." It is difficult and it is awful because people are suffering. There is nobody that is gonna come out of this completely unaffected, Just think we have rushed this before and ended up back where we started but the difference this time we have the vaccine so I just think we all just need to hold on a little bit longer. Yes it's hard and yes we all want this over but there is a major light at the end of the tunnel now. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs " We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? " Oh how menshend Trident oh what a wast of money that is for a country of the size of the UK | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs " I think a review anytime soon would be crass considering the work the NHS has done. Whilst I don’t disagree it could do with change in some areas to strip away some of the bureaucracy and waste. Now is not the time. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs I think a review anytime soon would be crass considering the work the NHS has done. Whilst I don’t disagree it could do with change in some areas to strip away some of the bureaucracy and waste. Now is not the time. " Apparently our Govt doesn’t agree. NHS review round the corner les by a Health Minister who has received substantial donations from lobby groups who are pushing for the privatisation of healthcare in the UK (guess who is behind the lobby groups, yep big pharma and insurance). Profit motivated healthcare has no place in a civilised society. Just ask Americans forced to sell their homes to pay for cancer treatment. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs I think a review anytime soon would be crass considering the work the NHS has done. Whilst I don’t disagree it could do with change in some areas to strip away some of the bureaucracy and waste. Now is not the time. " NHS needs a rebuild 're modal for the fucher but not now and needs to be cross party | |||
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"So should it be small shops that open first as could be a low risk or schools as young people need education." most kids get as good or bettwr education from youtube than school. I know when my child is having issues with classwork if i am not able to help she checks out youtube and bam, sorted. This isnt an attack on teachers | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs I think a review anytime soon would be crass considering the work the NHS has done. Whilst I don’t disagree it could do with change in some areas to strip away some of the bureaucracy and waste. Now is not the time. Apparently our Govt doesn’t agree. NHS review round the corner les by a Health Minister who has received substantial donations from lobby groups who are pushing for the privatisation of healthcare in the UK (guess who is behind the lobby groups, yep big pharma and insurance). Profit motivated healthcare has no place in a civilised society. Just ask Americans forced to sell their homes to pay for cancer treatment. " if you have not alreadu watched Sicko, do. that alone makes you want to save the NHS from these scum. | |||
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"So should it be small shops that open first as could be a low risk or schools as young people need education. most kids get as good or bettwr education from youtube than school. No it means they are owning skills for tomorow without knowing it. If working from home is going to be a move for lots of companies is home schooling just getting them ready for this in some way. But do we need to look at space in homes to account for this new world I know when my child is having issues with classwork if i am not able to help she checks out youtube and bam, sorted. This isnt an attack on teachers " | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? " Lionel surely you are not suggesting we reassess our spending priorities? | |||
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"We won't be anywhere near safe levels of vaccination until the top 9 groups have been vaccinated. The people in the top 9 groups make up 93% of all hospital admissions. When that is done we can look at fully opening up but until then if we open up now we will just be looking at more hospital admissions but from people in the lower age groups including working age people. It make sense to keep be restrictions fairly tight for another month or 2 so we don't have to go through this again. So when you say tight schools do you think open or stay as it for a bit Schools are staying closed until at least the 8th March. Most schools will not have full numbers back until mid March at the earliest. It's a hard one but yes I would like to see most schools close till after Easter not for all year but for most. It is difficult and it is awful because people are suffering. There is nobody that is gonna come out of this completely unaffected, Just think we have rushed this before and ended up back where we started but the difference this time we have the vaccine so I just think we all just need to hold on a little bit longer. Yes it's hard and yes we all want this over but there is a major light at the end of the tunnel now." Surely it's not just the vaccine though. What about the fact millions have had it and got over it, this must put us in a better position to start opening up again sooner than the summer. | |||
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"the amount of money in the economy is still in the economy, it's just the demographic distribution has shifted. why wait to tax it until the pandemic has completely ended?" I sort of get that as banking and insurance are the top to industrys in the UK. but It is followed by entertainment and that is completely closed and will be for a good time to come | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? Lionel surely you are not suggesting we reassess our spending priorities?" If a government came forward and said it was spending Trident money on the NHS it would get my vote £200 billion is a lot when we can't put fule or planes on the new ships that have just been built | |||
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"the amount of money in the economy is still in the economy, it's just the demographic distribution has shifted. why wait to tax it until the pandemic has completely ended? I sort of get that as banking and insurance are the top to industrys in the UK. but It is followed by entertainment and that is completely closed and will be for a good time to come" yes, but the money didn't evaporate like steam did it. it still exists. it's just the government are scared to tax the new owners of the money. | |||
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"the amount of money in the economy is still in the economy, it's just the demographic distribution has shifted. why wait to tax it until the pandemic has completely ended? I sort of get that as banking and insurance are the top to industrys in the UK. but It is followed by entertainment and that is completely closed and will be for a good time to come yes, but the money didn't evaporate like steam did it. it still exists. it's just the government are scared to tax the new owners of the money. " No it did not evaporate but a lot comes from toriests that did not and will not be coming for some time. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" Och well, aslong as my son's stuck in his bedroom twiddling his thumbs instead of out enjoying his early adult life getting pissed, shagging birds and ultimately meeting a wife and having kids I doubt I'm gonna have to worry about any grandkids | |||
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"Relaxing too quickly is the most expensive option. It costs more in the longer term, like the reverse of compound interest. You didn't pick that up from all of the mistakes made last year? Be honest, you're The Donald? Interest rates are at their lowest ever rates, so it's the cheapest time to borrow to invest. State borrowing and finance is nothing like personal finance. The strength of the economy rests on the wellbeing of its citizens. Ignore or imperil that and you miss the point " I completely understand this, but we are now in a much stronger position. And I believe the well being of the citizens is being much more damaged by the enforced lockdown. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? Lionel surely you are not suggesting we reassess our spending priorities?" We spend money on health and mot weapons we will never use? Perish the though. | |||
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"Relaxing too quickly is the most expensive option. It costs more in the longer term, like the reverse of compound interest. You didn't pick that up from all of the mistakes made last year? Be honest, you're The Donald? Interest rates are at their lowest ever rates, so it's the cheapest time to borrow to invest. State borrowing and finance is nothing like personal finance. The strength of the economy rests on the wellbeing of its citizens. Ignore or imperil that and you miss the point I completely understand this, but we are now in a much stronger position. And I believe the well being of the citizens is being much more damaged by the enforced lockdown." Hospitalisations still higher than April peak. We're not out of the woods yet. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? Lionel surely you are not suggesting we reassess our spending priorities? We spend money on health and mot weapons we will never use? Perish the though." At least HS2 might benefit some of the UK but with more Working From Home do we need it now but can it be stoped? Trident will probably be done out of the UK ship yards so it won't even be helping jobs and it will be a white elephant. | |||
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"Council tax already going up by 5%" I heard this earlier today. It is unsurprising. | |||
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"Council tax already going up by 5% I heard this earlier today. It is unsurprising. " Not surprising in the slightest Pay freezes,increased taxes And people are worried about how we will pay for it | |||
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"Council tax already going up by 5% I heard this earlier today. It is unsurprising. " So what will that mean £10 a month so a bottle of wine or 2 | |||
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"Relaxing too quickly is the most expensive option. It costs more in the longer term, like the reverse of compound interest. You didn't pick that up from all of the mistakes made last year? Be honest, you're The Donald? Interest rates are at their lowest ever rates, so it's the cheapest time to borrow to invest. State borrowing and finance is nothing like personal finance. The strength of the economy rests on the wellbeing of its citizens. Ignore or imperil that and you miss the point I completely understand this, but we are now in a much stronger position. And I believe the well being of the citizens is being much more damaged by the enforced lockdown." Any strategy has to be backed by evidence. People are suffering due to lockdown but this is worse because we didn't lockdown properly before. It wouldn't be the current lockdown if we had done it better each time. Whilst those who have been the most likely to die have largely received a vaccine dose, many won't yet have immunity to the virus. They aren't the only people who can get very ill and long covid, for example, affects everyone including younger people - that is very expensive, due to very long term disablement. The country will be able to restart international tourism to here, a big economy pillar, when the infection levels are very low. They are still very high, despite having fallen from their peak. The current vaccine groups 5 and 6 are still at significant risk, so completing this and other groups is needed. Any herd immunity is not going to be achieved until we have many more people vaccinated. On Monday the government plans are revealed, so we should wait until then, to see what they plan Until then, the country is struggling as infection levels are incredibly high. We shouldn't put up with a workforce and businesses that are hobbled by avoidable infections. | |||
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"Yes and thats just with council tax, imagine with the costs of everything else increasing as well ... no wine "Water is mot healthy lol | |||
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"Relaxing too quickly is the most expensive option. It costs more in the longer term, like the reverse of compound interest. You didn't pick that up from all of the mistakes made last year? Be honest, you're The Donald? Interest rates are at their lowest ever rates, so it's the cheapest time to borrow to invest. State borrowing and finance is nothing like personal finance. The strength of the economy rests on the wellbeing of its citizens. Ignore or imperil that and you miss the point I completely understand this, but we are now in a much stronger position. And I believe the well being of the citizens is being much more damaged by the enforced lockdown. Any strategy has to be backed by evidence. People are suffering due to lockdown but this is worse because we didn't lockdown properly before. It wouldn't be the current lockdown if we had done it better each time. Whilst those who have been the most likely to die have largely received a vaccine dose, many won't yet have immunity to the virus. They aren't the only people who can get very ill and long covid, for example, affects everyone including younger people - that is very expensive, due to very long term disablement. The country will be able to restart international tourism to here, a big economy pillar, when the infection levels are very low. They are still very high, despite having fallen from their peak. The current vaccine groups 5 and 6 are still at significant risk, so completing this and other groups is needed. Any herd immunity is not going to be achieved until we have many more people vaccinated. On Monday the government plans are revealed, so we should wait until then, to see what they plan Until then, the country is struggling as infection levels are incredibly high. We shouldn't put up with a workforce and businesses that are hobbled by avoidable infections. " Would you really be happy with international torisam having Americans and others in venues in the uk when we get covid free | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. " What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady." No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns." What at any cost as in 1000 more dead a day or 2000 just keep going | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. What at any cost as in 1000 more dead a day or 2000 just keep going " Or massive PTSD in the NHS, or overwhelm such that people needlessly die... | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns." It's not going to happen that way, the numbers are headed in the right direction but still infections are too high and the new variants if we were to open up would spread to a point the next lockdown might be even longer than this one.. Whilst respecting that we are in very tough times mentally and financially for some and it's crap in general, morally, medically and politically it will be a few more weeks yet.. | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. It's not going to happen that way, the numbers are headed in the right direction but still infections are too high and the new variants if we were to open up would spread to a point the next lockdown might be even longer than this one.. Whilst respecting that we are in very tough times mentally and financially for some and it's crap in general, morally, medically and politically it will be a few more weeks yet.." I believe I've read that, with a functional healthcare system, the death rate for Covid is between 1 and 3%, whereas without a functional healthcare system it might be up to 10%. | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. What at any cost as in 1000 more dead a day or 2000 just keep going Or massive PTSD in the NHS, or overwhelm such that people needlessly die..." That is all ready there and in other staff and services | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. It's not going to happen that way, the numbers are headed in the right direction but still infections are too high and the new variants if we were to open up would spread to a point the next lockdown might be even longer than this one.. Whilst respecting that we are in very tough times mentally and financially for some and it's crap in general, morally, medically and politically it will be a few more weeks yet.."  | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. It's not going to happen that way, the numbers are headed in the right direction but still infections are too high and the new variants if we were to open up would spread to a point the next lockdown might be even longer than this one.. Whilst respecting that we are in very tough times mentally and financially for some and it's crap in general, morally, medically and politically it will be a few more weeks yet.. I believe I've read that, with a functional healthcare system, the death rate for Covid is between 1 and 3%, whereas without a functional healthcare system it might be up to 10%." Yes, we forget that many more people would have died, had they not received prompt, advanced medical treatment. Worth remembering | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" ..... Our grandkids will be happy they are born.and to flourish Not dead as it seems some forumites still don’t accept that this virus does kill indiscriminately .... | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. It's not going to happen that way, the numbers are headed in the right direction but still infections are too high and the new variants if we were to open up would spread to a point the next lockdown might be even longer than this one.. Whilst respecting that we are in very tough times mentally and financially for some and it's crap in general, morally, medically and politically it will be a few more weeks yet.. I believe I've read that, with a functional healthcare system, the death rate for Covid is between 1 and 3%, whereas without a functional healthcare system it might be up to 10%." Frightening number.. | |||
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"I can't even begin to imagine how many billions this furlough scheme will of cost the government. It's time to let all businesses open back up and get the county into recovery mode. What for 3 months and then go back to a lockdown for 4 months when it all goes wrong again. We.have to learn from the past. Nah just hold steady. No. Just open up and keep moving forwards. No more lockdowns. What at any cost as in 1000 more dead a day or 2000 just keep going Or massive PTSD in the NHS, or overwhelm such that people needlessly die... That is all ready there and in other staff and services " Yes. Let's not make it worse  | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud" Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal.  | |||
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"Relaxing too quickly is the most expensive option. It costs more in the longer term, like the reverse of compound interest. You didn't pick that up from all of the mistakes made last year? Be honest, you're The Donald? Interest rates are at their lowest ever rates, so it's the cheapest time to borrow to invest. State borrowing and finance is nothing like personal finance. The strength of the economy rests on the wellbeing of its citizens. Ignore or imperil that and you miss the point I completely understand this, but we are now in a much stronger position. And I believe the well being of the citizens is being much more damaged by the enforced lockdown. Any strategy has to be backed by evidence. People are suffering due to lockdown but this is worse because we didn't lockdown properly before. It wouldn't be the current lockdown if we had done it better each time. Whilst those who have been the most likely to die have largely received a vaccine dose, many won't yet have immunity to the virus. They aren't the only people who can get very ill and long covid, for example, affects everyone including younger people - that is very expensive, due to very long term disablement. The country will be able to restart international tourism to here, a big economy pillar, when the infection levels are very low. They are still very high, despite having fallen from their peak. The current vaccine groups 5 and 6 are still at significant risk, so completing this and other groups is needed. Any herd immunity is not going to be achieved until we have many more people vaccinated. On Monday the government plans are revealed, so we should wait until then, to see what they plan Until then, the country is struggling as infection levels are incredibly high. We shouldn't put up with a workforce and businesses that are hobbled by avoidable infections. Would you really be happy with international torisam having Americans and others in venues in the uk when we get covid free" We will need to continue to protect the health of citizens when lockdown is over, in part by having smart border management. Just as we will be able to move around, we can continue to allow others to come here, if they feel it's safe to do so. We'll probably just continue with hotel quarantine for those from very high risk countries. Perhaps we'll continue to request negative test results for travellers from all countries too. We will potentially be ahead with vaccines but our infection rates are higher than many. Thousands of jobs rely on tourism, so we should not ignore an established sector that brings us £billions. None of our emergence from this crisis is going to be other than tough and prone to errors too. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal. "Or done what sweden did...... actually use science; rather than the flawed mathematical theoretical madness of a proven failure Neil Ferguson. No 500k deaths, no bodies in streets etc. You people have been scared into stupidity.(via the bbc) Look up Ivor cummins, mike yeadon, anna brees, Sunetra Gupta, politico, Dr Claus Köhnlein....and many others who have no political or financial links to the big pharmas. Oh and dont forget to wear 5 masks inside your own homes. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal.
Or done what sweden did......
actually use science;
rather than the flawed mathematical theoretical madness of a proven failure Neil Ferguson.
No 500k deaths, no bodies in streets etc.
You people have been scared into stupidity.(via the bbc)
Look up Ivor cummins, mike yeadon, anna brees, Sunetra Gupta, politico, Dr Claus Köhnlein....and many others who have no political or financial links to the big pharmas.
Oh and dont forget to wear 5 masks inside your own homes."Just on Sweden as frankly there's some inane ramblings going on in your post which don't warrant serious response.. Sweden has a five fold increase in cases from Dec to present and are looking at stricter restrictions.. They've lost five times more people than Denmark and in comparison to Norway well you do the maths between 12,500 and just under 700.. Comparing us to Sweden is silly, look at their neighbours who followed the scientific advice.. | |||
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"The Government are being more cautious in lifting lockdown due to their previous errors of going to late and then easing to soon. Every week they can hold out of coming out of lockdown the less likelyhood of a serious spike in infections. I still think this obsession with opening schools is a mistake as the highest rises in infections is the 24 years and under ages. Open the schools and infections will rise. I would not open the foreign holiday market for this year or would i let tourists in unless the infection rate is so low to be insignificant. Do the UK a favour and spend your money here when things start to reopen." Yep would go with all of that. I also see schools as a big risk second lockdown schools first then big spike by Xmas got to try something different. | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal.
Or done what sweden did......
actually use science;
rather than the flawed mathematical theoretical madness of a proven failure Neil Ferguson.
No 500k deaths, no bodies in streets etc.
You people have been scared into stupidity.(via the bbc)
Look up Ivor cummins, mike yeadon, anna brees, Sunetra Gupta, politico, Dr Claus Köhnlein....and many others who have no political or financial links to the big pharmas.
Oh and dont forget to wear 5 masks inside your own homes."Unnecessary quote at the end tends to undermine your interesting list of participants. Maybe it is confirmation bias, but I see nothing there than isn’t easily disproved by looking at the science & the actuality of what happened. For example a quote that the pandemic was effectively over in October. Disproved by the events over Christmas & New Year. As open minded as I like to be I see nothing here. | |||
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"We won't be wasting money on holidays in the UK. Maybe a couple of dirty weekends away but no holidays in the UK. Far to expensive. " Yer you could spend lots and still get bad wether it's not for me but guess if your in to some thing it could work fore sum. I'd love a nice week on a canal boat but coast and weather mmmmm | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal.
Or done what sweden did......
actually use science;
rather than the flawed mathematical theoretical madness of a proven failure Neil Ferguson.
No 500k deaths, no bodies in streets etc.
You people have been scared into stupidity.(via the bbc)
Look up Ivor cummins, mike yeadon, anna brees, Sunetra Gupta, politico, Dr Claus Köhnlein....and many others who have no political or financial links to the big pharmas.
Oh and dont forget to wear 5 masks inside your own homes."Or just be intelligent about what we do and look at, rather than your selectex list of people, including those pushing discredited approaches that don't stand up to any serious scrutiny for a second. Ok, you have an agenda and ideology that doesn't want to be supported by valid scientific means and strong evidence. What are your expectations that the death levels would be, if we'd not worked to protect the NHS and citizens' health and lives 
It's too late to try pushing nonsense that holds no validity whatsoever, isn't supported by anything other than spurious websites and foreign state financial backing, with the clear objectives of underming the stability and security of the country.
We've made mistakes but didn't make the biggest one of doing nothing or pursuing claptrap that would have led us to a worse fate than the likes of the USA. Sweden is worth looking at but not to draw the conclusions that you have. Superficially some may think it's right to have a free for all. It won't include those who loved anyone who needlessly became very sick or died. They have a good health system but it's not able to withstand fully preventable catastrophes, because someone didn't like a little restriction to lifestyle. | |||
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"While there are restrictions furlough will have to continue, no government can expect any business to survive otherwise." How do you expect a business to survive paying the p32 liability? | |||
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"While there are restrictions furlough will have to continue, no government can expect any business to survive otherwise. How do you expect a business to survive paying the p32 liability?" The honest answer is that a lot of them won't survive, furlough protects the employeesand not the employer there have been grants and so on but that money is long gone. I employ one person and he's earnt more than I have the past year but luckily I am still able to work. | |||
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"Perhaps they should claw back the billions spaffed on the failing SERCO Test and Trace and inadequate PPE contacts. They could also use that 350 million a week for the NHS that was promised post-Brexit..." Covid is probably costing the NHS far more than 350 million a week! | |||
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"As an aside, we were still paying for the debt of abolition compensation until 2015. If we've tolerated huge debts for that she should bloody well do so to protect people and businesses from Covid - alongside a remodelling of the economy but I don't see that happening under this bunch of right wing chancers." scrap Trident and save 205 billion that should put a hole in the deat . | |||
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"Perhaps they should claw back the billions spaffed on the failing SERCO Test and Trace and inadequate PPE contacts. They could also use that 350 million a week for the NHS that was promised post-Brexit..." | |||
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"But we did! we opened everything back up, it didn't work, and we were thrown back into lockdown." I would like to think it will be different this time as we didn't have the vaccine factor last lockdown. It just needs some common sense from Joe public but as was shown last time Joe public doesn't have any of that  | |||
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"Im seeing reports of the furlough being extended until summer. With the vaccine roll out going well, plenty of people with some sort of antibodies, and a lot more having nsymptoms, how are we not opening up the country again?" because its time to take it easy open slow are you a expert in this sort of thing | |||
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"the truth is we cant afford to, but we can afford even less to fuck it up again and have to come back into another lockdown its a game of which is least worst ," | |||
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"But we did! we opened everything back up, it didn't work, and we were thrown back into lockdown. I would like to think it will be different this time as we didn't have the vaccine factor last lockdown. It just needs some common sense from Joe public but as was shown last time Joe public doesn't have any of that "Yep just blame 70 odd million people | |||
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"It will be paid back in the usual way....cuts to public services, a rise in taxation for middle/high income groups (possibly a double whammy if coupled with a lowering of the tax threshold which could fetch lower earners into this group) and loans. Expect a proliferation on tax havens and offshore accounts in the next few years." And people will still cheer them on | |||
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"Interesting thread. For those who are worried about having to pay it back, there's some really good online explanations of the modern economy and how central banks can create money. I am sure an economist on here would explain much better. It seems the economic systems for the last 50 years aren't linked to physical resources such as gold. So central banks can create money and give loans to themselves that never have to be paid off or something along those lines. " they will be paid back, just over a really long time banks now lend and borrow based on using future (contracted) cashflows as collateral rather than physical funds or gold for example it means the bank doesn’t need to wait the 25 years of your mortgage to re-lend that money - to speed things up they borrow from an investor and the investor gets the right to your mortgage cashflows if the bank defaults on its debt repayments, this reduces risk to the investor handing over their cash, gets fresh cash into the bank and then the bank lends that out as more mortgages and the cycle continues its really what you and I have been doing all along with our mortgage - borrowing on what we can pay back (or what the lender could lay claim to like the house) rather than on what money we have right now, then the banks have started to do the same and the central banks are just doing the same on a larger scale and with assets that aren’t necessarily mortgages | |||
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"For what it's worth ... I believe we are approaching a crossroads - we can either go on in the same way we have been doing since 1945 - an economy that continually goes thru boom and bust Or We can start remodelling are economy to ensure that work is environmentally friendly, that education. Is linked to the needs of business and not academia, that issues like poor housing, drug and alcohol abuse are tackled - I'm sure that people reading this can add a lot more I do not think anything (even schools) should be reopened until every man, woman and child has had a 2nd jab If this sounds harsh to business Well remember the 80's - mining, shipbuilding, steel making, car making. All these suffered - these guys had no furlough or internet to help them - in later times many councils have had their finances cut and have had to restructure Before covid - many retail firms were facing tough times " I like the thinking of reforming the economy as it is clear that rampant capitalism hugely benefits the few, but notes much the many. I have to disagree about education & academia, we need dreamers & artists to balance the world & someone to come up with the wild ideas. Perhaps making more vocational degrees or qualifications more like apprenticeships of old, you decide to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/nurse etc & either an employer supports you in your degree maybe paying part fees, work to repay (I know some companies do this) etc, whereas the academics/artists whose 'value' to society is harder to quantify have a different fee structure altogether...haven't though that one thru yet, so won't be contacting HM Govt imminently.. | |||
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"Someone on the radio was comparing the situation to the post ww2 era. In that time despite the state the country was in ,we invested and built the welfare state. The other option is to cut and we saw what a success austerity was. I'm not an economist but surely if you create jobs that means more money paying tax,spending money etc. Whereas if you cut services,pay freezes etc the opposite is the case." on the face of it yes but we can’t compare directly to post war era as the circumstances were different - back then we had parts of the country literally needing rebuilt, thats what we invested in - infrastructure and manufacturing and construction this crisis has put the acceleration on the next big change to home working and online shopping - chances are thats going to put the commercial real estate industry on its arse, the retail industry on its arse and in turn the construction industry our main industry is now service based and its not as easy for the govt to throw money and investment at that (although they did try last year with eat out to help out) , but you can saturate the market with food and entertainment venues and actually have a negative impact in the way that wouldn’t have happened back when they were funding the rebuilding of bombed towns , plus people need money in their pocket to make use of these businesses to get them going so its a bit chicken and egg what is true is they need a full shake up and rethink about what they want the uk economy to be based on - maybe we need to go back to manufacturing to become more self reliant or given how well we did with the vaccine maybe we throw money at medical research and pharmaceuticals | |||
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"Someone on the radio was comparing the situation to the post ww2 era. In that time despite the state the country was in ,we invested and built the welfare state. The other option is to cut and we saw what a success austerity was. I'm not an economist but surely if you create jobs that means more money paying tax,spending money etc. Whereas if you cut services,pay freezes etc the opposite is the case. on the face of it yes but we can’t compare directly to post war era as the circumstances were different - back then we had parts of the country literally needing rebuilt, thats what we invested in - infrastructure and manufacturing and construction this crisis has put the acceleration on the next big change to home working and online shopping - chances are thats going to put the commercial real estate industry on its arse, the retail industry on its arse and in turn the construction industry our main industry is now service based and its not as easy for the govt to throw money and investment at that (although they did try last year with eat out to help out) , but you can saturate the market with food and entertainment venues and actually have a negative impact in the way that wouldn’t have happened back when they were funding the rebuilding of bombed towns , plus people need money in their pocket to make use of these businesses to get them going so its a bit chicken and egg what is true is they need a full shake up and rethink about what they want the uk economy to be based on - maybe we need to go back to manufacturing to become more self reliant or given how well we did with the vaccine maybe we throw money at medical research and pharmaceuticals " I know the situations are not directly comparable..but if you look at the NHS for example..that certainly needs some investment. How many hospitals did he say were going to be built again? I agree we are far too reliant on the service and financial services. Like I said I dont know the 1st thing about economics but I do know that austerity was utterly deveststing on practically every level..and like I said if you create jobs that surely means more money sloshing round the economy. I think we need someone at the top with vision. | |||
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" How many hospitals did he say were going to be built again? " Was it 50? Although only 6 were new hospitals, the rest were rebuilds. That will go down the tubes......all this money ploughed out gives the gvmt a prime excuse to pull back on that promise. | |||
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" How many hospitals did he say were going to be built again? Was it 50? Although only 6 were new hospitals, the rest were rebuilds. That will go down the tubes......all this money ploughed out gives the gvmt a prime excuse to pull back on that promise." That doesnt sound like him  | |||
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"Someone on the radio was comparing the situation to the post ww2 era. In that time despite the state the country was in ,we invested and built the welfare state. The other option is to cut and we saw what a success austerity was. I'm not an economist but surely if you create jobs that means more money paying tax,spending money etc. Whereas if you cut services,pay freezes etc the opposite is the case. on the face of it yes but we can’t compare directly to post war era as the circumstances were different - back then we had parts of the country literally needing rebuilt, thats what we invested in - infrastructure and manufacturing and construction this crisis has put the acceleration on the next big change to home working and online shopping - chances are thats going to put the commercial real estate industry on its arse, the retail industry on its arse and in turn the construction industry our main industry is now service based and its not as easy for the govt to throw money and investment at that (although they did try last year with eat out to help out) , but you can saturate the market with food and entertainment venues and actually have a negative impact in the way that wouldn’t have happened back when they were funding the rebuilding of bombed towns , plus people need money in their pocket to make use of these businesses to get them going so its a bit chicken and egg what is true is they need a full shake up and rethink about what they want the uk economy to be based on - maybe we need to go back to manufacturing to become more self reliant or given how well we did with the vaccine maybe we throw money at medical research and pharmaceuticals " Some of this is to do with banking Pool at why Dyson move out of the UK. Mainly as he could not get banks to support. Cadberies sold to US banks water and electrical sold to the French. There must be so meany more steel shipyards etc | |||
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"Here is an extract from a Guardian article back in November on corporate and individual tax evasion. These are annual figures and quite staggering... +++++ The TJN’s state of tax justice 2020 report says more than half the losses – $245bn – came from companies shifting $1.38tn of profits out of the countries where they were generated into tax havens, where corporate tax rates were low or nonexistent. Private individuals paid $182bn less tax than they should have by storing a total of more than $10tn in financial assets offshore, the report adds. TJN said it was time for the G20 to require the publication of the profits made by individual multinationals on a country-by-country basis, so that “corporate tax abusers and the jurisdictions that facilitate them can be identified and held to account”. The report says the five jurisdictions most responsible for countries’ tax losses were the Cayman Islands, a British overseas territory, responsible for 16.5% or more than $70bn of global tax losses; the UK (10%, $42bn); the Netherlands (8.5%, $36bn); Luxembourg (6.5%, $27bn) and the US (5.5%, $23bn). +++++ But don’t worry folks none of the super rich or multinational corps will have to fork out, Rishi will just raise all of the plebs taxes! " assets will soon be moved onshore but will remain out of reach of the HMRC in the conservatives new free ports. it's bizzarre that many people are happy about this despite the scheme preventing jobs and keeping the wider public in poverty. | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? " If we are so rich why U.K. heading for 2.5 Trillion national debt ? One of only 4 countries that has debt more than a years GDP | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? If we are so rich why U.K. heading for 2.5 Trillion national debt ? One of only 4 countries that has debt more than a years GDP " it depends on how you classify rich - we have a healthy GDP and are currently able to service our debt - having debt doesn’t make you a poor country its akin to suggesting i don’t have a pot to piss in because my mortgage is higher than my annual salary | |||
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"I'm more concerned about the bill our children are going to have to pay in the coming years. Its a vicous circle. We need to return to work to pay tax to rebuild and repay the country and fund the NHS . But if we work the virus rears its head again. How do we then pay for the NHS. Think we need a plan on how to live with the virus and return to normal as much is possible. But first we need a review of the NHS. To reduce it waistage of both money and staff. Need more indians and a few less cheifs We are one of the richest countries on the planet. I'm not sure where this notion is coming from that we dont have a pot to piss in. How much is hs2 costing? Or trident? If we are so rich why U.K. heading for 2.5 Trillion national debt ? One of only 4 countries that has debt more than a years GDP " Japan ,USA, Canada, France ,Spain, Belguim, Egypt....the list goes on and all the above borrow more than us..and the leader is Japan. Plenty of counties without that proverbial pot eh  | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. " you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? " Well we are been. The U.K. government have drastically driven the economy into the ground, there was always going to be a financial blow, but my god, they have been so careless and not had a proactive thought. My cousin,works for VM wear. His team built the track and trace app. Well, the original, the one offered out is not that apps original form. They took it then paid specialist app developers tens of thousands as a daily rate to change it to the crap we was offered..that’s just one thing in a whole lot of corruption...they are still taking wage increases and other financial benifits, while we start to salvage the ruin | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? " Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax?" who would then be tax payers so still the tax payers paying it - the original comment seemed to me like someone else should be covering the cost whereas the reality is tax payers paying for everything all the time is the only logical option because who the hell else would? its not like the govt have a secret pot of money that came from somewhere other than tax payers | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax?" Let's start with all the rich bstards that can afford to eat at McDonald's, an extra pounds on each meal job done! Or mobile phone tax, anyone with a phone costing more than 150 quid, job done again lol but not a make up tax lol  | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? who would then be tax payers so still the tax payers paying it - the original comment seemed to me like someone else should be covering the cost whereas the reality is tax payers paying for everything all the time is the only logical option because who the hell else would? its not like the govt have a secret pot of money that came from somewhere other than tax payers" Well the tax payers are every one are they(apart from the tax payers alliance that is) So I guess do you tax everyone the same? We all know there are some big companies getting away with millions,legally. Wouod it not hurt to close some of those loopholes? | |||
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"Per capita we are per person poorer than the poorest state in the U.S..A which is Arkansas " Sutely that depends on the area? | |||
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"Everytime it comes up.... tax the rich lol Lewis Hamilton moved to Switzerland lol you now get no tax off him.... it's just one example of why just staying tax rich or big companies isn't really an answer, how? Would be "Yep taxing the poor is much more acceptable | |||
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"Everytime it comes up.... tax the rich lol Lewis Hamilton moved to Switzerland lol you now get no tax off him.... it's just one example of why just staying tax rich or big companies isn't really an answer, how? Would be
Yep taxing the poor is much more acceptable "you think taxing poor is acceptable, so mean and nasty lol | |||
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"Everytime it comes up.... tax the rich lol Lewis Hamilton moved to Switzerland lol you now get no tax off him.... it's just one example of why just staying tax rich or big companies isn't really an answer, how? Would be "Yeah he annoys me, Lewis Hamilton sports personality TAX EVADER. Anyway too much is made of the national debt, we had one recently till this Tory government decided needlessly to embark on a austerity programme, and that was a political choice not a necessity of finance. The UK is a rich country and although it has taken a big hit financially during this pandemic, the debt can be paid over a multitude of years with little effect on our day to day lives. Unless that is some ideological tory government comes into power in the years to come with some obscure reason that the less we'll off in society should pay for it all, as it must be our fault after all.. | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? who would then be tax payers so still the tax payers paying it - the original comment seemed to me like someone else should be covering the cost whereas the reality is tax payers paying for everything all the time is the only logical option because who the hell else would? its not like the govt have a secret pot of money that came from somewhere other than tax payers Well the tax payers are every one are they(apart from the tax payers alliance that is) So I guess do you tax everyone the same? We all know there are some big companies getting away with millions,legally. Wouod it not hurt to close some of those loopholes?" i didn’t say we should tax everyone the same or that we shouldn’t close loopholes , but some people (maybe not you - but the post i was originally replying to) are literally so entitled that they seem to think there is someone else that should be fitting the bill for covid rather than tax payers and i can’t think for the life of me who that would be both me and you and the big conglomerates are tax payers - wether or not they are paying a fair share is an entirely different non covid issue | |||
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"Well all I know is everyone who’s on furlough will be loving it but in the long run we will all be paying it back through taxes for years so it will hit us all really hard soon enough and those who already live on the breadline will be hit the hardest Just annoys me that the people who haven’t been on furlough and have worked through it all will also have to pay when I feel they shouldn’t have to I feel the people that have been off on furlough should be the ones who have to pay back not the key workers who haven’t had time off to be with there family’s at home I know not everyone will agree but it’s just my opinion " It is a really difficult subject but you could certainly see many people who have worked throughout feeling hard done by when their taxes rise. Then what about c.3m newly self employed and Ltd Co Directors who have received zero/nothing. How will they feel seeing their taxes going up? | |||
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"Well all I know is everyone who’s on furlough will be loving it but in the long run we will all be paying it back through taxes for years so it will hit us all really hard soon enough and those who already live on the breadline will be hit the hardest Just annoys me that the people who haven’t been on furlough and have worked through it all will also have to pay when I feel they shouldn’t have to I feel the people that have been off on furlough should be the ones who have to pay back not the key workers who haven’t had time off to be with there family’s at home I know not everyone will agree but it’s just my opinion It is a really difficult subject but you could certainly see many people who have worked throughout feeling hard done by when their taxes rise. Then what about c.3m newly self employed and Ltd Co Directors who have received zero/nothing. How will they feel seeing their taxes going up?" As I was saying they didn’t claim or get furlough so why should they be paying back for it that’s the point and the amount of people I’ve seen and know of employed and self employed who have claimed thousands through furlough and are also working and getting paid now that’s a joke in itself and a real kick between the legs I know a few have made fortunes enough to buy brand new cars go figure | |||
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"Per capita we are per person poorer than the poorest state in the U.S..A which is Arkansas Sutely that depends on the area?" compare us to richest state Ohio we are poor , UK per capita are 29th in the world | |||
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"Per capita we are per person poorer than the poorest state in the U.S..A which is Arkansas Sutely that depends on the area? compare us to richest state Ohio we are poor , UK per capita are 29th in the world " I'd suggest parts of london and the south east are more wealthy than arkansas | |||
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"Per capita we are per person poorer than the poorest state in the U.S..A which is Arkansas Sutely that depends on the area? compare us to richest state Ohio we are poor , UK per capita are 29th in the world I'd suggest parts of london and the south east are more wealthy than arkansas" 29 th considering our land mass is a impressive thing. We are a spot on a map | |||
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"Per capita we are per person poorer than the poorest state in the U.S..A which is Arkansas Sutely that depends on the area? compare us to richest state Ohio we are poor , UK per capita are 29th in the world I'd suggest parts of london and the south east are more wealthy than arkansas 29 th considering our land mass is a impressive thing. We are a spot on a map" 29th per capita | |||
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"Well all I know is everyone who’s on furlough will be loving it but in the long run we will all be paying it back through taxes for years so it will hit us all really hard soon enough and those who already live on the breadline will be hit the hardest Just annoys me that the people who haven’t been on furlough and have worked through it all will also have to pay when I feel they shouldn’t have to I feel the people that have been off on furlough should be the ones who have to pay back not the key workers who haven’t had time off to be with there family’s at home I know not everyone will agree but it’s just my opinion It is a really difficult subject but you could certainly see many people who have worked throughout feeling hard done by when their taxes rise. Then what about c.3m newly self employed and Ltd Co Directors who have received zero/nothing. How will they feel seeing their taxes going up? As I was saying they didn’t claim or get furlough so why should they be paying back for it that’s the point and the amount of people I’ve seen and know of employed and self employed who have claimed thousands through furlough and are also working and getting paid now that’s a joke in itself and a real kick between the legs I know a few have made fortunes enough to buy brand new cars go figure " its just not how tax works though - we all chip in together and thats just how it goes what about the people that didn’t get sick and have to use an ICU bed will they not have to pay it back? never used any covid tests or impacted track and trace - not due to contribute? you could say you’ve never been unemployed or had kids but your tax is paying for maternity pay and job seekers i don’t have any kids or use a library - should i be getting a discount on council tax that covers schools and libraries? we choose to live in a country where we contribute to society - if some people needed more help this year while the rest of us carried on thats just the way the cookie crumbled | |||
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"Im seeing reports of the furlough being extended until summer. With the vaccine roll out going well, plenty of people with some sort of antibodies, and a lot more having no symptoms, how are we not opening up the country again?" What they need is some sort of "roadmap to recovery"... they could consider risk against socioeconomic factors and see how they could "open up" again. Maybe in a staged approach. I might suggest it. | |||
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"Im seeing reports of the furlough being extended until summer. With the vaccine roll out going well, plenty of people with some sort of antibodies, and a lot more having no symptoms, how are we not opening up the country again? What they need is some sort of "roadmap to recovery"... they could consider risk against socioeconomic factors and see how they could "open up" again. Maybe in a staged approach. I might suggest it. "Ooookay | |||
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"Well all I know is everyone who’s on furlough will be loving it but in the long run we will all be paying it back through taxes for years so it will hit us all really hard soon enough and those who already live on the breadline will be hit the hardest Just annoys me that the people who haven’t been on furlough and have worked through it all will also have to pay when I feel they shouldn’t have to I feel the people that have been off on furlough should be the ones who have to pay back not the key workers who haven’t had time off to be with there family’s at home I know not everyone will agree but it’s just my opinion It is a really difficult subject but you could certainly see many people who have worked throughout feeling hard done by when their taxes rise. Then what about c.3m newly self employed and Ltd Co Directors who have received zero/nothing. How will they feel seeing their taxes going up? As I was saying they didn’t claim or get furlough so why should they be paying back for it that’s the point and the amount of people I’ve seen and know of employed and self employed who have claimed thousands through furlough and are also working and getting paid now that’s a joke in itself and a real kick between the legs I know a few have made fortunes enough to buy brand new cars go figure its just not how tax works though - we all chip in together and thats just how it goes what about the people that didn’t get sick and have to use an ICU bed will they not have to pay it back? never used any covid tests or impacted track and trace - not due to contribute? you could say you’ve never been unemployed or had kids but your tax is paying for maternity pay and job seekers i don’t have any kids or use a library - should i be getting a discount on council tax that covers schools and libraries? we choose to live in a country where we contribute to society - if some people needed more help this year while the rest of us carried on thats just the way the cookie crumbled " So true. We are the people we pay taxes regardless. I pay alot of tax as I earn a good wage, but I don’t use much of the things my tax goes to. But it’s what it is. Tax has to be paid, so I pay it. Fair or not, it’s realistically for me not so fair. But I may need a lot of the things my tax goes to so I see it’s a fund for an emergency aid | |||
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"The final four undated bonds were redeemed in July 2015 and can be traced back three centuries and include gilts issued in 1853, when the then Chancellor Gladstone consolidated a number of the capital stocks of the South Sea Company taken on as government liabilities following the Company’s collapse in the infamous South Sea Bubble financial crisis of 1720. They also included debts first issued in 1752 and subsequently used to finance the Napoleonic and Crimean Wars, the Sl*very Abolition Act (1835) and the Irish Distress Loan (1847) and subsequently converted by Chancellor Goschen in 1888." I didn’t know that. Wow! Just shows how there is no need to place too heavy a short term burden but instead cover the cost of Covid long term. | |||
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"Well all I know is everyone who’s on furlough will be loving it but in the long run we will all be paying it back through taxes for years so it will hit us all really hard soon enough and those who already live on the breadline will be hit the hardest Just annoys me that the people who haven’t been on furlough and have worked through it all will also have to pay when I feel they shouldn’t have to I feel the people that have been off on furlough should be the ones who have to pay back not the key workers who haven’t had time off to be with there family’s at home I know not everyone will agree but it’s just my opinion It is a really difficult subject but you could certainly see many people who have worked throughout feeling hard done by when their taxes rise. Then what about c.3m newly self employed and Ltd Co Directors who have received zero/nothing. How will they feel seeing their taxes going up? As I was saying they didn’t claim or get furlough so why should they be paying back for it that’s the point and the amount of people I’ve seen and know of employed and self employed who have claimed thousands through furlough and are also working and getting paid now that’s a joke in itself and a real kick between the legs I know a few have made fortunes enough to buy brand new cars go figure its just not how tax works though - we all chip in together and thats just how it goes what about the people that didn’t get sick and have to use an ICU bed will they not have to pay it back? never used any covid tests or impacted track and trace - not due to contribute? you could say you’ve never been unemployed or had kids but your tax is paying for maternity pay and job seekers i don’t have any kids or use a library - should i be getting a discount on council tax that covers schools and libraries? we choose to live in a country where we contribute to society - if some people needed more help this year while the rest of us carried on thats just the way the cookie crumbled " Absolutely!! | |||
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"I am lucky in that so far Covid has only had a relatively small impact on my business (Apr-May was a bit hairy). However, there are still millions who have been left with nothing including people who went self employed less than 12-18mths before Covid hit and small Ltd Co Directors. The reason they have received no help is that HMRC consider them “too difficult” (yes that is a quote). However, I guarantee it won’t be too difficult to increase and enforce collection of taxes from these same people! There has been a lot of good support that has helped a lot of people. Sadly some businesses have abused the furlough and some less savoury characters have abused grants and loans. I truly hope HMRC investigates and prosecutes them. As someone who earns a v good living and pays a lot of tax I think it is right to pay into the country and support services that people less fortunate than me need. I may never use many of those services but recognise that lots of people need to and I want to live in a fair and more equitable society. However, I do worry that the burden will not be fairly distributed with too much emphasis in personal taxation and hitting small businesses disproportionally harder than multi-national corporates. IMO we need Corporate Tax bands that reflect turnover. Govt should issue long term bonds to pay for Covid (we only finished paying back WWI bonds in 2015) " I don't think government will ever raise or create the corporate tax band's here. If anything I think now that we are in even more competition with Europe we will lower the cost for large multinational to setup in UK. Job creation/retention will be the focus. Quality of jobs less so, arguably as always. There's a focus on trickle down economics and it's evident. Maybe ever more practical logistically to help a few large multinationals than hundreds of smes. | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? Let's start with all the rich bstards that can afford to eat at McDonald's, an extra pounds on each meal job done! Or mobile phone tax, anyone with a phone costing more than 150 quid, job done again lol but not a make up tax lol "In that light what about more duty on sugger right across food and sweets etc | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? Let's start with all the rich bstards that can afford to eat at McDonald's, an extra pounds on each meal job done! Or mobile phone tax, anyone with a phone costing more than 150 quid, job done again lol but not a make up tax lol "Would that be when it was first perched or even after 5 years of owning it | |||
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"The tax payers will be footing the blunt. We always do. you say this like we are being penalised, who else would be paying it? Mathe start with the companies not paying millions in tax? Let's start with all the rich bstards that can afford to eat at McDonald's, an extra pounds on each meal job done! Or mobile phone tax, anyone with a phone costing more than 150 quid, job done again lol but not a make up tax lol
In that light what about more duty on sugger right across food and sweets etc "john spartan you have been fined 1 credit.... some people will get that | |||
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"100 yrs to pay it back our grandchildren will be proud Perhaps we should have just buried our heads in the sand, collected up the 500,000 or so dead bodies that would have accumulated in hospital car parks and just carried on as normal.
Or done what sweden did......
actually use science;
rather than the flawed mathematical theoretical madness of a proven failure Neil Ferguson.
No 500k deaths, no bodies in streets etc.
You people have been scared into stupidity.(via the bbc)
Look up Ivor cummins, mike yeadon, anna brees, Sunetra Gupta, politico, Dr Claus Köhnlein....and many others who have no political or financial links to the big pharmas.
Oh and dont forget to wear 5 masks inside your own homes."Sweden is now on the brink of a third wave with far higher infection rates than the UK or their nordic neighbours. Sweden isnt the success story that the covid deniers like Yeadon and Cummings pretend it was. There is a reason why these characters have been a bit quiet of late.... | |||
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"Cars, lorries and vans cause massive damage to the air quality and the environment in general, since lockdown the air has been much better, reduced use of inhaler, currently there is 63 million cars in the UK , raise car tax by £ 20 per year on all cars except fully electric say 50 million non electric cars that will raise an extra 1 billion a year " They already did that trick.. my last car (16 plate) cost £30 per year to tax, they changed the tax rules so if you were to buy the same car now it costs £150 a year.. it's even worse for those buying expensive luxury cars. If the gov want easy money just start taxing electric cars they will have to start doing that soon anyway so why not now. | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax " The people were told to furlough so we could try and stop so many people dying ( that didn't work out well and it is still happening but no one seems to report on it anymore ) At the time when they announced furlough I thought we would probably get a tax hike to cover it but if it meant all these people would still have a job when it was over I was and am still OK with that | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax " Why? What magic pot did you think the money would come from? | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax Why? What magic pot did you think the money would come from?" The money pot where they pluck millions from whenever it suits them? | |||
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"Cars, lorries and vans cause massive damage to the air quality and the environment in general, since lockdown the air has been much better, reduced use of inhaler, currently there is 63 million cars in the UK , raise car tax by £ 20 per year on all cars except fully electric say 50 million non electric cars that will raise an extra 1 billion a year " You do realise that they will tax electric cars ( actual term EV) before too long. Transport is an easy target and excuses to raise taxes on motoring are endless. Google tyre and brake dust ... the excuse to tax EVs are already there. | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax The people were told to furlough so we could try and stop so many people dying ( that didn't work out well and it is still happening but no one seems to report on it anymore ) At the time when they announced furlough I thought we would probably get a tax hike to cover it but if it meant all these people would still have a job when it was over I was and am still OK with that" I think it would be nice if the people that took furlough pay it back over a few years once they are back working instead of people that haven't taken a penny and haven't stoped working while a lot of the country could sit at home safely some had to go out to keep the country going and now we are going to end up with a tax increase to pay back money for time they didn't have off work some how doesnt seem fair. | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax Why? What magic pot did you think the money would come from? The money pot where they pluck millions from whenever it suits them?" Teresa's Magic Money Tree? -- Looks like us self employed are first in the govts sights judging by the budget. | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax Why? What magic pot did you think the money would come from? The money pot where they pluck millions from whenever it suits them? Teresa's Magic Money Tree? -- Looks like us self employed are first in the govts sights judging by the budget." Nope. They have already announced a pay freeze for key workers. | |||
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"If I end up having a tax increase to pay for any thing to do with furlough I'm going to be seriously annoyed, already get hammered for tax The people were told to furlough so we could try and stop so many people dying ( that didn't work out well and it is still happening but no one seems to report on it anymore ) At the time when they announced furlough I thought we would probably get a tax hike to cover it but if it meant all these people would still have a job when it was over I was and am still OK with that I think it would be nice if the people that took furlough pay it back over a few years once they are back working instead of people that haven't taken a penny and haven't stoped working while a lot of the country could sit at home safely some had to go out to keep the country going and now we are going to end up with a tax increase to pay back money for time they didn't have off work some how doesnt seem fair. " It isn't about taking the money, they were asked to do it. They pay their taxes before, during and will do once they go back to work . It isn't their fault they couldn't keep doing their job If there was no furlough there would be lots more on the dole after losing their jobs who wouldn't be paying tax at all. | |||
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