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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) " Data is data and not susceptible to influence. If they are not actually presenting data and instead just presenting conclusions, then these "could" be skewed to fit a chosen narrative. Personally I believe that the vaccines "will" reduce the virus, so the reports are "as expected". Cal Cal | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) " I presume the scientists will pick apart the study and look for any weaknesses in it, as they do with any study (and peer review will have done this already). | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) I presume the scientists will pick apart the study and look for any weaknesses in it, as they do with any study (and peer review will have done this already)." As will our fab experts on here! | |||
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"The published research will state any conflicts of interest. The peer reviewed data will be reliable in a way that the media isn't. This is a preliminary finding and is good positive news. The naysayers who are taking several months to continue to dispute the thorough data evidence, due to their expressed cpncerns about putting something alien into their bodies, are another thing entirely "I find it fascinating that people rely on this stuff implicitly in almost every area of their life, but when it comes to one thing in particular, none of it can be trusted. The inconsistency makes my head hurt. | |||
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"The published research will state any conflicts of interest. The peer reviewed data will be reliable in a way that the media isn't. This is a preliminary finding and is good positive news. The naysayers who are taking several months to continue to dispute the thorough data evidence, due to their expressed cpncerns about putting something alien into their bodies, are another thing entirely
I find it fascinating that people rely on this stuff implicitly in almost every area of their life, but when it comes to one thing in particular, none of it can be trusted.
The inconsistency makes my head hurt."I don't think we've ever been challenged this way before by one single tiny entity that has changed our lives so much and in such a sustained manner and ever been as "empowered" with information before. I also don't think we've ever been as reliant on others to make our decisions for us and as empowered to then challenge them. I do agree if we had shown the same level of Google fed superficial scrutiny and pseudo intelligence to for example mobile phones or the Internet or radiotherapy or ibuprofen we would probably be in a right state....or would we? | |||
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"The published research will state any conflicts of interest. The peer reviewed data will be reliable in a way that the media isn't. This is a preliminary finding and is good positive news. The naysayers who are taking several months to continue to dispute the thorough data evidence, due to their expressed cpncerns about putting something alien into their bodies, are another thing entirely
I find it fascinating that people rely on this stuff implicitly in almost every area of their life, but when it comes to one thing in particular, none of it can be trusted.
The inconsistency makes my head hurt.
I don't think we've ever been challenged this way before by one single tiny entity that has changed our lives so much and in such a sustained manner and ever been as "empowered" with information before. I also don't think we've ever been as reliant on others to make our decisions for us and as empowered to then challenge them.
I do agree if we had shown the same level of Google fed superficial scrutiny and pseudo intelligence to for example mobile phones or the Internet or radiotherapy or ibuprofen we would probably be in a right state....or would we? "Or Here's a devil's advocate thought..... New research just out shows that the internal combustion engine has been found to pollute the air with carcinogenic particles that have lead to millions of deaths worldwide. Mercedes and Ford and Toyota have new engines said to reduce pollution and consequently deaths....how many people would scrutinise the emissions evidence to decide whether to buy a car or not.? | |||
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"The published research will state any conflicts of interest. The peer reviewed data will be reliable in a way that the media isn't. This is a preliminary finding and is good positive news. The naysayers who are taking several months to continue to dispute the thorough data evidence, due to their expressed cpncerns about putting something alien into their bodies, are another thing entirely
I find it fascinating that people rely on this stuff implicitly in almost every area of their life, but when it comes to one thing in particular, none of it can be trusted.
The inconsistency makes my head hurt.
I don't think we've ever been challenged this way before by one single tiny entity that has changed our lives so much and in such a sustained manner and ever been as "empowered" with information before. I also don't think we've ever been as reliant on others to make our decisions for us and as empowered to then challenge them.
I do agree if we had shown the same level of Google fed superficial scrutiny and pseudo intelligence to for example mobile phones or the Internet or radiotherapy or ibuprofen we would probably be in a right state....or would we? "People do do this, but they're extremely fringe. Much more fringe than this stuff seems to be. | |||
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"The published research will state any conflicts of interest. The peer reviewed data will be reliable in a way that the media isn't. This is a preliminary finding and is good positive news. The naysayers who are taking several months to continue to dispute the thorough data evidence, due to their expressed cpncerns about putting something alien into their bodies, are another thing entirely
I find it fascinating that people rely on this stuff implicitly in almost every area of their life, but when it comes to one thing in particular, none of it can be trusted.
The inconsistency makes my head hurt.
I don't think we've ever been challenged this way before by one single tiny entity that has changed our lives so much and in such a sustained manner and ever been as "empowered" with information before. I also don't think we've ever been as reliant on others to make our decisions for us and as empowered to then challenge them.
I do agree if we had shown the same level of Google fed superficial scrutiny and pseudo intelligence to for example mobile phones or the Internet or radiotherapy or ibuprofen we would probably be in a right state....or would we?
Or
Here's a devil's advocate thought..... New research just out shows that the internal combustion engine has been found to pollute the air with carcinogenic particles that have lead to millions of deaths worldwide.
Mercedes and Ford and Toyota have new engines said to reduce pollution and consequently deaths....how many people would scrutinise the emissions evidence to decide whether to buy a car or not.? "It's an interesting thought exercise. I only know what I would do. Same thing I've done for this. Find the relevant experts and listen to them  (my Covid rabbit hole began, I'm not joking, with the Google search "top public health university UK". I found the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and I've gradually expanded sources from there) | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) " The most exciting and hopeful thing there is evidence to support the vaccines reducing transmission. That changes the argument for many of the Vaccine Hesitant as it is no longer only a case of protecting yourself (and therefore your right to choose) but also protecting others. It moves to an community ethical issue. | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) The most exciting and hopeful thing there is evidence to support the vaccines reducing transmission. That changes the argument for many of the Vaccine Hesitant as it is no longer only a case of protecting yourself (and therefore your right to choose) but also protecting others. It moves to an community ethical issue." Community ethical... Love that thought. That's where we are rubbish. We really are. And as has been expressed of a different thread at the moment I think were I equipped with a magic wand (no not that sort of wand!) it's then first place I'd start to try and build on our community spirit probably allied with education ... And everything else could happen much more easily from there. | |||
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"I'm so pleased that I got the Pfizer shot "Me too. Just had it half an hour ago  | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) " The 75% reduction in transmission rate sounds really good news. I guess with a reduction in transmission rates like that it will make herd immunity much easier to achieve and protect those who cannot take the vaccine. | |||
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"Interesting and on the face of it very positive data from Israel regarding the Pfizer vaccine after just one dose. Also evidence of reducing ongoing transmissions by an incredible 75%. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-is-up-to-85-effective-after-first-dose-new-israeli-study-finds-12222164 There is an article in the lancet too so it does lend some credibility. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00448-7/fulltext Just wonder if there are any external influences on this study, data or conclusions (as with any of the "information" we get regarding positive or negative studies) The 75% reduction in transmission rate sounds really good news. I guess with a reduction in transmission rates like that it will make herd immunity much easier to achieve and protect those who cannot take the vaccine. " I have been saying this one here a number of times when people have incorrectly stated that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. The early scientific reporting stated it wasn't known if it would but unfortunately the movie deniers and anti vac brigade interpreted this incorrectly. No surprises there. A 75% reduction in transmission pushes the R rate below 1 even if everyone returns to normal life. Oh, on the assumption that everyone gets vaccinated. If we end up in another lockdown we know who to blame...The ones that will moan the most... | |||
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" The most exciting and hopeful thing there is evidence to support the vaccines reducing transmission. That changes the argument for many of the Vaccine Hesitant as it is no longer only a case of protecting yourself (and therefore your right to choose) but also protecting others. It moves to an community ethical issue." I'm pretty sure it makes it less important for everyone to have the vaccine, If vaccinated people don't transmit to unvaccinated then they're chances of getting it are also vastly reduced. If the vaccine uptake stays at around 90% then people are at a much lower risk from those 90%. | |||
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" The most exciting and hopeful thing there is evidence to support the vaccines reducing transmission. That changes the argument for many of the Vaccine Hesitant as it is no longer only a case of protecting yourself (and therefore your right to choose) but also protecting others. It moves to an community ethical issue. I'm pretty sure it makes it less important for everyone to have the vaccine, If vaccinated people don't transmit to unvaccinated then they're chances of getting it are also vastly reduced. If the vaccine uptake stays at around 90% then people are at a much lower risk from those 90%. " It was never important that everyone has the vaccine but given kids aren't having it then it's up to adults to ensure we have enough vaccinated. We can't just say well everyone over 50 has had it so no point if that doesn't reduce transmission enough to keep r number below 1. Also, my dad has been vaccinated. So 80% chance he is protected. However 20% chance he could catch it from someone and potentially get very ill. If I don't get the vaccine then, if I catch it and am asymptomatic then I could potentially kill him. I think I will take the vaccine but, if I do, it doesn't protect me and doesn't protect him and he dies them that's a bad luck. At least I can say I did the responsible thing to keep him and others safe. | |||
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"Why do you think the vaccine won't protect you or him ?" Was that question aimed at me? | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find." Roll on 11th May for my 2nd dose | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find." If these turn out to be true... That is fantastic news. sceptical at the moment however. In theory that would mean that given Israel have vaccinated most and the incredible efficacy that infections and deaths in Israel should drop very quickly to almost zero? | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find." It'll be interesting to see further data and discussion of this | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. If these turn out to be true... That is fantastic news. sceptical at the moment however. In theory that would mean that given Israel have vaccinated most and the incredible efficacy that infections and deaths in Israel should drop very quickly to almost zero? " They have officially published the data. It's awesome news. They are opening a lot of the economy up, but masks and social distancing remains. | |||
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"Why do you think the vaccine won't protect you or him ? Was that question aimed at me?" Yes | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find." Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. " Like recommended? | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? " Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. | |||
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"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-risk-of-illness-drops-95-8-after-second-pfizer-vaccine-dose-israel-says-12224403" Please let it be close to true! Now just need to manufacture another few billion doses! | |||
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"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-risk-of-illness-drops-95-8-after-second-pfizer-vaccine-dose-israel-says-12224403 Please let it be close to true! Now just need to manufacture another few billion doses! " Exactly! | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer." Exactly | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly "I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this. | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly
I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this."I wonder too. I hope they look into it. | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly
I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this."I think they've tied themselves to this experiment. | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly
I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this.
I think they've tied themselves to this experiment."Seems so | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly
I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this.
I wonder too. I hope they look into it. "Like any significant project, the success will be defined and you'd like to hope they meet weekly to review progress towards those success factors and if any tweaking of direction of travel is required....youd like to hope. | |||
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"Data released by Israel's health ministry last night on the Pfizer vaccine, showing even higher effectiveness 14 days after 2nd dose. Effectiveness: 95.8% at preventing infection 98% at preventing symptoms 98.9% at preventing hospitalisations 99.2% at stopping serious disease 98.9% at preventing death. . This was on twitter, not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find. Sounds good, but note Israel are giving the 2nd dose 14 days after the 1st dose. We are leaving a much longer gap between doses, so the results and outcomes may be different over here. Like recommended? Recommended for Oxford/AZ, not Pfizer. Exactly
I wonder if the government will change their stance on the delay between the doses of the Pfizer jab based on this.
I wonder too. I hope they look into it.
Like any significant project, the success will be defined and you'd like to hope they meet weekly to review progress towards those success factors and if any tweaking of direction of travel is required....youd like to hope. "Just as a side note, it looks like the Johnson and Johnson vaccine will be available April/May. Only one dose required, 30 million doses ordered. So with this, it could enable them to shorten the dose time for Pfizer. | |||
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