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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. " Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? " the wealth creators ... only they need the plebs back in their work stations to make the wealth for the creators. | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020." Why is it relevant | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? " The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020. Why is it relevant " It's not relevant to you. I would like to see a breakdown of the figures, so it's relevant to me. | |||
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"You have to ask yourself who's making the money out of this and do they have our best interest at heart. " I don't think you do have to ask who is making money out of this - or at least that should not be the only question that is asked. I think it is clear that the conservatives have a natural tendency to want people to make their own decisions. It is much more likely that this is a theme within that tradition. You can argue about whether people are able to make that decision on average - but then the people who do think that others can't be trusted should possibly ponder on what makes them so insightful and whether that is based on reality or an internal bias to think that you are always right. Which is a bias we all have. | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020. Why is it relevant " Imagine it’s relevant in terms of who has been vaccinated and how that will reduce deaths. | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020. Why is it relevant " And if you have nothing beneficial to contribute why not join another thread. Trying to question my intrigue just shows me hostility that I can only presume us fear based. | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. " You typed FACT in block letters - that’s me convinced  | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. " History is full of governments lying to its people, but this is global. Without mentioning any crack pot conspiracy theories you must have a valid reason that proves that they are all lying | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020. Why is it relevant And if you have nothing beneficial to contribute why not join another thread. Trying to question my intrigue just shows me hostility that I can only presume us fear based." I can comment on any thread I like , it was a question that you were unable to answer | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d" I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse." I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. " The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school." Today agree. I'm curious how they quantity deaths full stop. If you look into how they are now allowed to grade deaths for the certificate, they are allowed to add Covid if they 'think' it contributed. This is not challenged. My neighbour knows this first hand as her father died of MS and they have put Covid which she is legally challenging now. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent " The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent " Why are you insistent on just blurting out Government messages?? It's like having a paid Ad on the thread | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. I don’t think it’s remotely extreme to say that. Too many dimwits, financially unaffected so far , have no understanding of the economic realities of all this and never will until their own income suddenly stops. Then hear them squeal. " | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent Why are you insistent on just blurting out Government messages?? It's like having a paid Ad on the thread" The ‘government message’ ? Are you refuting my statement? | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job." And what was the alternative solution ? | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school." What would be interesting is ‘reduced life chances of children at home living under bad parenting’ Let’s be honest, they are the ones that have suffered the most. Vulnerable children no longer means those with health or learning difficulties. It’s code for bad parenting. Most of these are in school now!!! Reduced chances due to poverty are much harder to discern due to often going hand-in-hand with the above, and some in poverty too proud to ask for help so get missed  | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent Why are you insistent on just blurting out Government messages?? It's like having a paid Ad on the thread" Elton John is on board so it’s all true  | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" " Is it as Ironic as the current people telling us to protect the NHS after applauding a pay rise stop?? And now talking about "shaking the NHS up" | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" Is it as Ironic as the current people telling us to protect the NHS after applauding a pay rise stop?? And now talking about "shaking the NHS up"" Nope we are living in the age of irony ??? .. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job." Maybe they will...but letting covid just RIP 3as never the answer...but plenty were calling for that to happen back in march last year. And no doubt the same ones are still calling for it now. As for tax going up...yeah its bound to happen but hey remember austerity? I wonder whi give a fuck about people having to food banks back then eh... | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school." “.......... Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears......” ————————————— The spike in cancer deaths would be much much higher if we didn’t lockdown at all. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d" That's definitely true, dementia is awful x | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job. Maybe they will...but letting covid just RIP 3as never the answer...but plenty were calling for that to happen back in march last year. And no doubt the same ones are still calling for it now. As for tax going up...yeah its bound to happen but hey remember austerity? I wonder whi give a fuck about people having to food banks back then eh..." This isn’t letting the virus rip though. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in the 80+ catogary. Those people have now been vaccinated. Deaths should drop massively. The pressure on the nhs will ease as a result. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job. Maybe they will...but letting covid just RIP 3as never the answer...but plenty were calling for that to happen back in march last year. And no doubt the same ones are still calling for it now. As for tax going up...yeah its bound to happen but hey remember austerity? I wonder whi give a fuck about people having to food banks back then eh... This isn’t letting the virus rip though. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in the 80+ catogary. Those people have now been vaccinated. Deaths should drop massively. The pressure on the nhs will ease as a result." They have only just been vaccinated | |||
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"The CRG - which was formed in November to oppose a third lockdown and says it has the backing of 63 MPs for its letter - said the prime minister should set out a plan for "a return to normal life" from 8 March, the date pencilled in for school reopening. "All restrictions remaining after 8 March should be proportionate to the ever-increasing number of people we have protected," the group said - adding that the burden of proof should be on ministers to show restrictions were necessary. -------- You have to ask yourself who's making the money out of this and do they have our best interest at heart. Before you all start shouting about deaths and infection numbers PLEASE give me the stats from an alternative unbiased source. Whatever figures they give out there will be a high percentage of people who will not question them. I'm not a nonbeliever, or antivaxxer etc I'm just a regular person that has an instinct to question things. I think it's time we saw a LOT more transparency on the government's actions and publish all statistics." Will the House of Commons be back with no restrictions on that date? Until they are then we shouldn’t be. Let’s be totally clear Tory MPs are only interested in the working masses putting money in their own pockets. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job. Maybe they will...but letting covid just RIP 3as never the answer...but plenty were calling for that to happen back in march last year. And no doubt the same ones are still calling for it now. As for tax going up...yeah its bound to happen but hey remember austerity? I wonder whi give a fuck about people having to food banks back then eh... This isn’t letting the virus rip though. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in the 80+ catogary. Those people have now been vaccinated. Deaths should drop massively. The pressure on the nhs will ease as a result." My mum is 74 she won’t be fully protected until approx 2 weeks after her second vaccine which is May. | |||
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"One wonders how much pressure from there well paid directorships the 63 are coming under now the supply to the trough has been cut " Exactly this ... | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible d I think the effects of lockdown will be long lasting. The effects of COVID can be long lasting unless you die , then they are permanent The effects of covid will be long lasting - your other will be less and taxes higher for decades to come. If your lucky enough to still have a job. Maybe they will...but letting covid just RIP 3as never the answer...but plenty were calling for that to happen back in march last year. And no doubt the same ones are still calling for it now. As for tax going up...yeah its bound to happen but hey remember austerity? I wonder whi give a fuck about people having to food banks back then eh... This isn’t letting the virus rip though. The overwhelming majority of deaths are in the 80+ catogary. Those people have now been vaccinated. Deaths should drop massively. The pressure on the nhs will ease as a result. They have only just been vaccinated " And in most cases just the first jab. | |||
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"63 backbenchers will not change the lockdown measures....they can make noises but they would need labour behind them, and that's not going to happen Thank fuck." True
63 is just a tiny minority. Their cries will certainly fall on deaf ears. | |||
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" They have only just been vaccinated " Why do you keep replying with one sentence slightly arrogant answers. Educate yourself in vaccines an efficient vaccine works within 7 to 10 days..they don't take months? The fact they've only had one vaccine is again down to the government's "odd" erratic behaviour. But the main problem for me Is people are rushing out to get a new vaccine that they have been openly told will not prevent and possibly not even save you??? | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. " Amd I'm sure those 63 backbench tory mps no doubt including the loveable mark Francois, are just looking out for normal working people | |||
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"One wonders how much pressure from there well paid directorships the 63 are coming under now the supply to the trough has been cut " | |||
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" They have only just been vaccinated Why do you keep replying with one sentence slightly arrogant answers. Educate yourself in vaccines an efficient vaccine works within 7 to 10 days..they don't take months? The fact they've only had one vaccine is again down to the government's "odd" erratic behaviour. But the main problem for me Is people are rushing out to get a new vaccine that they have been openly told will not prevent and possibly not even save you???" Because hopefully if your body does what it is trying to kick start, if you catch the virus you have a 65-95% chance of not getting seriously ill with it. Unfortunately there will be some that it won’t work on, like most vaccines. | |||
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" They have only just been vaccinated Why do you keep replying with one sentence slightly arrogant answers. Educate yourself in vaccines an efficient vaccine works within 7 to 10 days..they don't take months? The fact they've only had one vaccine is again down to the government's "odd" erratic behaviour. But the main problem for me Is people are rushing out to get a new vaccine that they have been openly told will not prevent and possibly not even save you??? Because hopefully if your body does what it is trying to kick start, if you catch the virus you have a 65-95% chance of not getting seriously ill with it. Unfortunately there will be some that it won’t work on, like most vaccines. " Like the virus itself too?? | |||
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"Let's not forget Pfizer alone are set to make over 14 Billion from the vaccine...so no one is really fighting this through the "goodness if their hearts" or doing the right thing for mankind" Your against lockdown and the vaccines aren’t fit for purpose? Let me guess, Bill Gates is behind all this ? | |||
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"Let's not forget Pfizer alone are set to make over 14 Billion from the vaccine...so no one is really fighting this through the "goodness if their hearts" or doing the right thing for mankind" You have a problem with how the pharmaceutical industry works globally, for its profit. That's a separate topic, surely. | |||
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"Let's not forget Pfizer alone are set to make over 14 Billion from the vaccine...so no one is really fighting this through the "goodness if their hearts" or doing the right thing for mankind Your against lockdown and the vaccines aren’t fit for purpose? Let me guess, Bill Gates is behind all this ? " Annnnnd.....there it is. | |||
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"Let's not forget Pfizer alone are set to make over 14 Billion from the vaccine...so no one is really fighting this through the "goodness if their hearts" or doing the right thing for mankind Your against lockdown and the vaccines aren’t fit for purpose? Let me guess, Bill Gates is behind all this ? Annnnnd.....there it is." Or is it the ‘great reset’ !? | |||
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" They have only just been vaccinated Why do you keep replying with one sentence slightly arrogant answers. Educate yourself in vaccines an efficient vaccine works within 7 to 10 days..they don't take months? The fact they've only had one vaccine is again down to the government's "odd" erratic behaviour. But the main problem for me Is people are rushing out to get a new vaccine that they have been openly told will not prevent and possibly not even save you??? Because hopefully if your body does what it is trying to kick start, if you catch the virus you have a 65-95% chance of not getting seriously ill with it. Unfortunately there will be some that it won’t work on, like most vaccines. Like the virus itself too??" Personally I’d rather have the vaccine than catch the virus without any built up fight code | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. Today agree. I'm curious how they quantity deaths full stop. If you look into how they are now allowed to grade deaths for the certificate, they are allowed to add Covid if they 'think' it contributed. This is not challenged. My neighbour knows this first hand as her father died of MS and they have put Covid which she is legally challenging now." How does she know he died of MS and not covid? | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. " okay lets follow your train of thought then ... who is gaining and what are they gaining? please elaborate also from your first post which statistics is it that you think are missing? an specific important metric or would you just like to see numbers til you can find one to support an alternative theory because you know what they say about lie damned lies and statistics while being all open minded and challenging, have you challenged your own thought that people who disagree with you are all just terrified into submission, perhaps they have already done their questioning and challenging and still come back to the same opinion because its the one based in facts? | |||
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"Regarding stats...if anyone can provide me with current breakdown of age/underlying conditions stats please do. I found this but it seemed it was stopped in 2020. Why is it relevant And if you have nothing beneficial to contribute why not join another thread. Trying to question my intrigue just shows me hostility that I can only presume us fear based." so again your intrigue is enlightened but another’s questioning is fear based ... ok ! | |||
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"I think the "terrified percentage" will sadly empower restrictions well into 2021. As long as we there's scary stats in the tellybox and vulnerable elderly dying this pandemic will never truly be challenged. Who are the ‘terrified percentage ‘ ? The terrified percentage are the population who simply refuse to challenge any official narrative. They immediately attack anyone who questions it and throw pathetic low blows like 'conspiracy nut' or think someone is convinced there's a master plan at work. They have a black and white approach to life. "Why would they lie to us, what would they gain" We have been lied to again and again so man can gain power and wealth FACT. okay lets follow your train of thought then ... who is gaining and what are they gaining? please elaborate also from your first post which statistics is it that you think are missing? an specific important metric or would you just like to see numbers til you can find one to support an alternative theory because you know what they say about lie damned lies and statistics while being all open minded and challenging, have you challenged your own thought that people who disagree with you are all just terrified into submission, perhaps they have already done their questioning and challenging and still come back to the same opinion because its the one based in facts? " Spot on | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. In your view, what is the financial equivalent of five more years with a parent or grandparent? A rough estimate will suffice They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. " | |||
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"The nhs didn’t collapse because we had the lockdown is not hard to work out " Exactly. I worked in a role supporting the frontline NHS staff. The situation was terrible in early Dec, and many of the seriously ill patients were younger. Without lockdown, I know that the NHS would have been overrun. The toll taken on the staff was terrible too. Much as feel terribly sad for businesses, individuals etc, the long-term costs would have terrible in other ways without another lockdown. A functioning health service really is the bottom line in all of this. These MPs are deeply irresponsible - I just wish they’d each have spent a week on the wards at the height of the second wave. That, possibly, may have changed their thinking. | |||
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"how long would lockdown have to go on for to really incur irrevocable damage to society and the economy and how long do you think it will take to recover? my mum is slowly going insane not being able to see my kids and has said she'd rather die than live like this.. dementia is horrible World War Two lasted six years. Society recovered fine from it. I don't think there is anything - bar extinction - that is irrevocable. Stop the scare mongering d" | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" " does it not also follow that its ironic to suggest a conservative government would tank the economy and start paying everyones wages for fun when their policy for the last decade was austerity with an aim to reduce national debt? perhaps money is still their long term motivation but they realise the economy would also have tanked if the virus run rampant , everyone was sick and unable to work, the hospitals were over run and people dying from things like heart attacks too as no capacity to treat them | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th" Why do you think it wasn’t? | |||
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" They have only just been vaccinated Why do you keep replying with one sentence slightly arrogant answers. Educate yourself in vaccines an efficient vaccine works within 7 to 10 days..they don't take months? The fact they've only had one vaccine is again down to the government's "odd" erratic behaviour. But the main problem for me Is people are rushing out to get a new vaccine that they have been openly told will not prevent and possibly not even save you???" errrrr this is awkward ... those one sentence slightly arrogant answers are what is otherwise referred to as statement of fact also very little point discussing the rules for efficient vaccines in general when we are referring to a set of very specific vaccines which we have been told require 2 doses | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school." I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" does it not also follow that its ironic to suggest a conservative government would tank the economy and start paying everyones wages for fun when their policy for the last decade was austerity with an aim to reduce national debt? perhaps money is still their long term motivation but they realise the economy would also have tanked if the virus run rampant , everyone was sick and unable to work, the hospitals were over run and people dying from things like heart attacks too as no capacity to treat them " They had no choice with furlough What would have been the alternative? Plus there is no doubt in the world that every penny of that furlough money will be recouped. | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? " Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused." I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it " Are you talking about this operation cygnus? | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it " Ah right, another balls up, | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" does it not also follow that its ironic to suggest a conservative government would tank the economy and start paying everyones wages for fun when their policy for the last decade was austerity with an aim to reduce national debt? perhaps money is still their long term motivation but they realise the economy would also have tanked if the virus run rampant , everyone was sick and unable to work, the hospitals were over run and people dying from things like heart attacks too as no capacity to treat them They had no choice with furlough What would have been the alternative? Plus there is no doubt in the world that every penny of that furlough money will be recouped." i agree, but i also believe they had no choice with lockdown ... a virus “happened to us” (ive air quoted that because i don’t care where people think it originated from, either way it ended up in the uk ) and we had to react ... without a virus, closing the economy and handing out free cash would be the last thing on a conservative government’s mind ... wether they have the interest of the plebs at heart or not , there fore when the virus is minimised enough its likely a tory govt will be pushing for us open as soon as possible i was replying to a post that suggested this was all happening and we were locked down because a conservative govt just wants to screw the plebs over for their own gain which when you follow the thought through is ludicrous | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. Today agree. I'm curious how they quantity deaths full stop. If you look into how they are now allowed to grade deaths for the certificate, they are allowed to add Covid if they 'think' it contributed. This is not challenged. My neighbour knows this first hand as her father died of MS and they have put Covid which she is legally challenging now." I had this debate with someone the other day. What qualifies you neighbour to KNOW the cause their father's death? We they the doctor treating him in hospital in the moments leading up to his death? As far as I know, hospital and care home visits are banned so how does your neighbour KNOW any of what they claim to know? Say my dad has complications with diabetes and got admitted to hospital. The hospital said that he contracted covid and die. What knowledge/qualifications do I have to contradict the medics? Maybe you can help me understand | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it Are you talking about this operation cygnus?" It was called U.K. influenza pandemic preparedness strategy 2011 and could be easily adapted | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid " 30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide during the first 12 weeks of the pandemic. | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it " I seen Jeremy hunt on about that. It was because they thought a big virus would be coming...thought they thought it would be a bad variant of influenza. Let's hope that doesn't come next eh.. | |||
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" The irony of a bunch of mainly Right Wing conservatives being put up as some kind of voice of reason and having the Nations and us plebs best interests at heart ?? is quite outstanding !! and this is the same bunch who helped push through another one of their pet projects that would have all of us dancing in the "Sunny Uplands" ?? and has and will do cause more long term damage to us as a Nation than any kind of lock down and even more ironic is the mere fact ( that they and their willing press buddies totally ignore) is that their Dear leader is the main reason we are in lock down 3.0 is even more ironic but it is standard "Look over THERE..there's a squirrel" does it not also follow that its ironic to suggest a conservative government would tank the economy and start paying everyones wages for fun when their policy for the last decade was austerity with an aim to reduce national debt? perhaps money is still their long term motivation but they realise the economy would also have tanked if the virus run rampant , everyone was sick and unable to work, the hospitals were over run and people dying from things like heart attacks too as no capacity to treat them They had no choice with furlough What would have been the alternative? Plus there is no doubt in the world that every penny of that furlough money will be recouped. i agree, but i also believe they had no choice with lockdown ... a virus “happened to us” (ive air quoted that because i don’t care where people think it originated from, either way it ended up in the uk ) and we had to react ... without a virus, closing the economy and handing out free cash would be the last thing on a conservative government’s mind ... wether they have the interest of the plebs at heart or not , there fore when the virus is minimised enough its likely a tory govt will be pushing for us open as soon as possible i was replying to a post that suggested this was all happening and we were locked down because a conservative govt just wants to screw the plebs over for their own gain which when you follow the thought through is ludicrous " Oh yeah agree of course. They had no choice and there is plenty of evidence that they acted too late. I'm just quite suspicious of the motives of these back bench mps who want us to come out asap. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid " increased suicide is a valid point and the government should be doing more to support mental health along side covid - this is because lockdown restrictions have exacerbated the issue an increase in people not getting treatment and dying of other illnesses is a red herring because we cannot compare to pre covid - in this case its not how we deal with the virus (ie lockdown) that has made the issue worse, its the virus itself and we were stuck with the virus over the last year no matter what method we put in place ... wether beds were unused because of lockdown or unavailable because of an overwhelmed nhs the outcome is the same - no treatment for the patient - the only way to remove this impact is to remove the virus so actually letting it run rampant would have likely been an even worse outcome | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid 30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide during the first 12 weeks of the pandemic. " and how many of those elective surgeries were life threatening since you seem to have the stats - lets give the whole story rather than the click bait headline | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid increased suicide is a valid point and the government should be doing more to support mental health along side covid - this is because lockdown restrictions have exacerbated the issue an increase in people not getting treatment and dying of other illnesses is a red herring because we cannot compare to pre covid - in this case its not how we deal with the virus (ie lockdown) that has made the issue worse, its the virus itself and we were stuck with the virus over the last year no matter what method we put in place ... wether beds were unused because of lockdown or unavailable because of an overwhelmed nhs the outcome is the same - no treatment for the patient - the only way to remove this impact is to remove the virus so actually letting it run rampant would have likely been an even worse outcome " I know.. just saying they are the arguments put forward by those who say lockdown is killing people. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid 30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide during the first 12 weeks of the pandemic. and how many of those elective surgeries were life threatening since you seem to have the stats - lets give the whole story rather than the click bait headline " Source British Journal of Surgery May 12th 2020 | |||
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"The nhs didn’t collapse because we had the lockdown is not hard to work out " | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid 30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide during the first 12 weeks of the pandemic. " "....30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide..." --------------------------- And without a lockdown, it could have been 60 million surgeries postponed. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid 30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide during the first 12 weeks of the pandemic. "....30 million electives surgeries postponed or cancelled world wide..." --------------------------- And without a lockdown, it could have been 60 million surgeries postponed." Thank you and least you're not doubting my source. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid " Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid" Like I said I was just repeating the arguments they put forward. | |||
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"Just been reading today that there is sitting Government archives a70 page document called U.K. Influenza pandemic preparedness strategy ,don’t be put off by that influenza the plan could easily have been put in place for Corona , agreed by all parts of the U.K. but was ditched in hysteria on March 20th Why do you think it wasn’t? Because they panicked , this was a very thought out way to deal with pandemics , also the whole of the U.K governments . was in agreement with it " It would be nice to be able to read that document... Hard to make comments on it without knowing what it contained... Central government didn't like it for a reason obviously, given initial early statements from leadership. It could contain things that even those amoungst us who think our leadership has failed us badly so far, find hard to swallow... Look how China enforced lock down, what if that plan recommends the army blockading cities? Plymouth has 5 major routes in or out, 1 of which is a ferry. Not going to take many squaddies to isolate town and cities... | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid Like I said I was just repeating the arguments they put forward." I got you  | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid" i think for many that committed suicide lockdown / job loss will have been the straw that broke the camels back so to speak because its such an emotive subject people dont want to consider that without covid there may have been a different straw but i guess if what you say about the numbers not actually increasing is true then it must follow that without covid something else would have caused it what is true though is that even before covid mental health services were poor and difficult to access, we don’t fund mental health to the same level as physical health (and many argue physical health is already underfunded) - many more people need more help and while it might not have increased suicides, less serious levels of mental health issues have definitely increased. with all this isolation and time to do nothing but think there are alot of people struggling mentally, some will bounce back when restrictions are lifted but many others will be a new additional burden to the already struggling mental health service - it needs to be a big focus going forward | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid Like I said I was just repeating the arguments they put forward." we are just debunking them lionel before people start agreeing with your post  | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid Like I said I was just repeating the arguments they put forward. we are just debunking them lionel before people start agreeing with your post " | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid i think for many that committed suicide lockdown / job loss will have been the straw that broke the camels back so to speak because its such an emotive subject people dont want to consider that without covid there may have been a different straw but i guess if what you say about the numbers not actually increasing is true then it must follow that without covid something else would have caused it what is true though is that even before covid mental health services were poor and difficult to access, we don’t fund mental health to the same level as physical health (and many argue physical health is already underfunded) - many more people need more help and while it might not have increased suicides, less serious levels of mental health issues have definitely increased. with all this isolation and time to do nothing but think there are alot of people struggling mentally, some will bounce back when restrictions are lifted but many others will be a new additional burden to the already struggling mental health service - it needs to be a big focus going forward " I think the thing which gets me is that a lot of these anti lockdown arguments put forward by the likes of these back bench tories,toby young,the daily mail etc,use job losses,suicide as their justification. However pre covid I dont remember such people being up in arms about peope losing their jobs,families thrown on the scrap heap. I just think there are ulterior motives at play. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid Like I said I was just repeating the arguments they put forward. I got you "I think there is a huge issue there around mental health, suicides etc but again that was an area before which had previously been neglected In fact I think mental health services have suffered terribly In terms of funding,over the last few years. | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why” "Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum. I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree. Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear, I do not trust the official narratives. That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully. Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any. | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any."yes exactly its an easy place to sit and criticise everyone else's viewpoint while essentially saying you have none of your own “you are all stupid and wrong but i am smarter by having no idea what is right” thats what you have just confirmed your stance is | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
yes exactly its an easy place to sit and criticise everyone else's viewpoint while essentially saying you have none of your own
“you are all stupid and wrong but i am smarter by having no idea what is right” thats what you have just confirmed your stance is "How on earth have you derived that!!!???? I give up. I'll leave you to dance with the "why" guy. | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
yes exactly its an easy place to sit and criticise everyone else's viewpoint while essentially saying you have none of your own
“you are all stupid and wrong but i am smarter by having no idea what is right” thats what you have just confirmed your stance is
How on earth have you derived that!!!????
I give up. I'll leave you to dance with the "why" guy."because the only thing you can stand behind is a negative confirmation “i don’t believe” - well what do you believe then? you say you want an adult debate but you can’t debate by just saying no no no - at some point you have to put forward an alternative to what you disagree with and i might be wrong but things like “i dont suffer from black and white thinking” suggests you think your are smarter than people who have managed to settle themselves on a side of the debate | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
yes exactly its an easy place to sit and criticise everyone else's viewpoint while essentially saying you have none of your own
“you are all stupid and wrong but i am smarter by having no idea what is right” thats what you have just confirmed your stance is
How on earth have you derived that!!!????
I give up. I'll leave you to dance with the "why" guy.
because the only thing you can stand behind is a negative confirmation
“i don’t believe” - well what do you believe then?
you say you want an adult debate but you can’t debate by just saying no no no - at some point you have to put forward an alternative to what you disagree with
and i might be wrong but things like “i dont suffer from black and white thinking” suggests you think your are smarter than people who have managed to settle themselves on a side of the debate "Ok...you seem to be making a habit of not reading my posts or translating them to suit your answer. Just because I don't believe the official narrative, doesn't mean I have to give an immediate option of what I do believe. It's a a belief in itself. The fact you challenge that shows me you have a black and white approach. And I have never said 'no' in a reply. | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
yes exactly its an easy place to sit and criticise everyone else's viewpoint while essentially saying you have none of your own
“you are all stupid and wrong but i am smarter by having no idea what is right” thats what you have just confirmed your stance is
How on earth have you derived that!!!????
I give up. I'll leave you to dance with the "why" guy.
because the only thing you can stand behind is a negative confirmation
“i don’t believe” - well what do you believe then?
you say you want an adult debate but you can’t debate by just saying no no no - at some point you have to put forward an alternative to what you disagree with
and i might be wrong but things like “i dont suffer from black and white thinking” suggests you think your are smarter than people who have managed to settle themselves on a side of the debate
Ok...you seem to be making a habit of not reading my posts or translating them to suit your answer.
Just because I don't believe the official narrative, doesn't mean I have to give an immediate option of what I do believe. It's a a belief in itself.
The fact you challenge that shows me you have a black and white approach.
And I have never said 'no' in a reply.
"no no no was me paraphrasing all of your posts - it would have taken a while to copy them all out but i was getting a ross that they only every offer negative confirmation absence of evidence is not evidence and lack of belief is not a belief - maybe that is black and white thinking - its how science (and to an extent language) works “ Just because I don't believe the official narrative, doesn't mean I have to give an immediate option of what I do believe. It's a a belief in itself.” please explain to me if i am mistranslating , what this can possibly mean other than i believe in nothing OR i believe in nothing with enough conviction to stand behind it you claim to want adult debate , but adult debate requires both sides to have view points that they will put forward and back up ... you only want to tell others that their viewpoint is wrong without providing any substance to back up why and without offering any alternative of your own and like you said that fence sitting is a very easy high horse to sit on | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.""I don't trust the official narrative" is not an argument. The only response to that is to ask: so what? | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
"I don't trust the official narrative" is not an argument. The only response to that is to ask: so what?"Another leaves the site. | |||
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"And he's gone..." Just after he had his arse handed to him on here | |||
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"i don’t see any angry posts on this thread i think you might be mistaking non agreeable with anger - not the same thing and yes continually asking why can be a childs method - but its also method to understand ... the comments you have put forward are vague musings with no real reason or substance behind them - you say you are not buying into a conspiracy theory but also not buying into the government message so what are you buying into? what answers has your questioning and challenging brought you that you would like to share with people to convince them their viewpoint is wrong? when you don’t provide anything people have to ask “but why”
Anger, hostility, there's lots of it, not just here but the whole virus forum.
I've had insulting personal messages from people that don't agree.
Vague? My viewpoint is crystal clear,
I do not trust the official narratives.
That doesn't mean I have to go one way or another, I don't suffer from black or white thinking thankfully.
Sitting in the fence is an easy option to embrace all viewpoints without committing to any.
"I don't trust the official narrative" is not an argument. The only response to that is to ask: so what?
Another leaves the site."Oh my tears | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. " How do you know? | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. How do you know? " He messaged us before he deleted it. We were talking privately prior to this post. | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. How do you know? He messaged us before he deleted it. We were talking privately prior to this post." O dear, nevermind , maybe he will return in the future | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. " really? presumably for a different thread? | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? " He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda " yes but while i didnt agree with his (lack of) view , if they all followed this script and agenda its not offensive or ban worthy | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda yes but while i didnt agree with his (lack of) view , if they all followed this script and agenda its not offensive or ban worthy " It does seem unreasonable to us to give out permanent bans without warning based solely on opinions. Surely it would be more appropriate to issue a warning and remove the post? | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda yes but while i didnt agree with his (lack of) view , if they all followed this script and agenda its not offensive or ban worthy " That is true, I don’t know the full content of his other threads but looking at the green arrow they were all similar . I respect everyone’s right to question things , but not giving reasons or solutions is pointless | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda yes but while i didnt agree with his (lack of) view , if they all followed this script and agenda its not offensive or ban worthy It does seem unreasonable to us to give out permanent bans without warning based solely on opinions. Surely it would be more appropriate to issue a warning and remove the post? " i dont think it will have been for an opinion thats why i said i assume another post people generally do get a time out and warning for breaking rules so if he didnt get that there must have been something somewhere a mod has removed that was beyond just giving out a warning | |||
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"To be fair he was permanently banned from the forum. Can’t blame him for deleting his profile. really? presumably for a different thread? He had a few threads , they all followed the same script and agenda yes but while i didnt agree with his (lack of) view , if they all followed this script and agenda its not offensive or ban worthy It does seem unreasonable to us to give out permanent bans without warning based solely on opinions. Surely it would be more appropriate to issue a warning and remove the post? " I'd be surprised if he hadn't been given time out before. I've been sent to the naughty corner twice for crossing the line. | |||
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"63 backbenchers will not change the lockdown measures....they can make noises but they would need labour behind them, and that's not going to happen Thank fuck." However should 15% of Tory MP’s (Thats currently 55 i believe) initiate a no confidence vote in the leader (Boris) then he has to secure a 50% total of MP’s to remain leader. | |||
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"Bit of a shame, but I guess there would never be an answer to the lovely ‘but why’ question, excellent take down by the way.." i might be overthinking into the connotations of the words take down but i wasn’t trying to belittle anyone i was just trying to explain that if you want to tell someone their view is flawed and wrong you kind of have to have a reason for that which you are willing to state and back up ... just saying someone is wrong and calling them childish for asking why you think they are wrong followed by i don’t have to tell you what my view is ... well thats not really a reasoned debate is it | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story." Lockdowns are a ‘necessary evil’ I am afraid . I can’t think of a better solution at this moment in time | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story." i agree with this but dont think a blanket call for end to lockdown is the only way to stick up for them 1. we ask what a roadmap out of lockdown looks like (which we are due on 22nd feb and we have to also take with a pinch of salt because its a plan not a contract) 2. we ask which measurable metrics we are targetting to move through each phase of the roadmap (will it be hospitalisation, positive cases, deaths, number vaccinated , most likely a combination of all but it needs to be measurable targets) 3. we ask what support will be put in place if waiting for this metric extends beyond current end of furlough 4. we ask what the next stage plan is to get the country back on track, people back into jobs and a catch up on the now huge nhs waiting lists (or at the very least when we can expect to hear about those plans if they are not yet worked through) and then we hold them accountable at each stage | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story. i agree with this but dont think a blanket call for end to lockdown is the only way to stick up for them 1. we ask what a roadmap out of lockdown looks like (which we are due on 22nd feb and we have to also take with a pinch of salt because its a plan not a contract) 2. we ask which measurable metrics we are targetting to move through each phase of the roadmap (will it be hospitalisation, positive cases, deaths, number vaccinated , most likely a combination of all but it needs to be measurable targets) 3. we ask what support will be put in place if waiting for this metric extends beyond current end of furlough 4. we ask what the next stage plan is to get the country back on track, people back into jobs and a catch up on the now huge nhs waiting lists (or at the very least when we can expect to hear about those plans if they are not yet worked through) and then we hold them accountable at each stage" | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story. Lockdowns are a ‘necessary evil’ I am afraid . I can’t think of a better solution at this moment in time " And that's the exact problem. Nobody has thought of a better idea or a better system. What we are doing now isn't sustainable in the long run and theres been no long term plan, no exit plan and no criteria for ending lockdown. The damage being caused by constant lockdowns can't be ignored. | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story. Lockdowns are a ‘necessary evil’ I am afraid . I can’t think of a better solution at this moment in time And that's the exact problem. Nobody has thought of a better idea or a better system. What we are doing now isn't sustainable in the long run and theres been no long term plan, no exit plan and no criteria for ending lockdown. The damage being caused by constant lockdowns can't be ignored." i don’t think we should ignore them but we don’t have to be in a deal with this or deal with that mindset we can deal with both, one after the other (would expect there to be a period of overlap where we start to get the country back on its feet but are still dealing with smaller pockets of covid) | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story. Lockdowns are a ‘necessary evil’ I am afraid . I can’t think of a better solution at this moment in time And that's the exact problem. Nobody has thought of a better idea or a better system. What we are doing now isn't sustainable in the long run and theres been no long term plan, no exit plan and no criteria for ending lockdown. The damage being caused by constant lockdowns can't be ignored." Then you have proven my point, lockdowns are awful but they are better than the alternative | |||
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"They might be right, they might be wrong but somebody has to speak up for all the people who are being damaged by non stop lockdowns. There are always at least 2 sides to every story. Lockdowns are a ‘necessary evil’ I am afraid . I can’t think of a better solution at this moment in time And that's the exact problem. Nobody has thought of a better idea or a better system. What we are doing now isn't sustainable in the long run and theres been no long term plan, no exit plan and no criteria for ending lockdown. The damage being caused by constant lockdowns can't be ignored. i don’t think we should ignore them but we don’t have to be in a deal with this or deal with that mindset we can deal with both, one after the other (would expect there to be a period of overlap where we start to get the country back on its feet but are still dealing with smaller pockets of covid) " and if they don’t have people in the cabinet already working on the “what we do next to recover” part then they are failing even worse than most of us already think they are ... i know we are run by an incompetent bunch but even i would hope they aren’t that slow on the uptake  | |||
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" It does seem unreasonable to us to give out permanent bans without warning based solely on opinions. Surely it would be more appropriate to issue a warning and remove the post? " I am not sure why people believe this to happen You would get a perm for having many bans or posted something that is way too bad to be on the site. As the man has gone, I can tell you he didn't get a ban but the people discussing when bans shouldn't be given out on the forum are breaking rules. If you have feedback about bans it should be given to Admin from the contact link | |||
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"The CRG - which was formed in November to oppose a third lockdown and says it has the backing of 63 MPs for its letter - said the prime minister should set out a plan for "a return to normal life" from 8 March, the date pencilled in for school reopening. "All restrictions remaining after 8 March should be proportionate to the ever-increasing number of people we have protected," the group said - adding that the burden of proof should be on ministers to show restrictions were necessary. -------- You have to ask yourself who's making the money out of this and do they have our best interest at heart. Before you all start shouting about deaths and infection numbers PLEASE give me the stats from an alternative unbiased source. Whatever figures they give out there will be a high percentage of people who will not question them. I'm not a nonbeliever, or antivaxxer etc I'm just a regular person that has an instinct to question things. I think it's time we saw a LOT more transparency on the government's actions and publish all statistics." So about 1 in 6 Conservatives have this opinion.... hardly ground breaking. | |||
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"How is it possible that influenza deaths are the lowest for 130 years? Is it because the Covid 19 germs are gobbling up the influenza germs? " higher than usual uptake of influenza vaccine last year, increased levels of hand hygiene and the first time in 130 years that everyone was social distanced and staying home most of the flu season could be a few reasons that make more scientific sense than covid gobbling up anything | |||
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"How is it possible that influenza deaths are the lowest for 130 years? Is it because the Covid 19 germs are gobbling up the influenza germs? " No, | |||
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"Bit of a shame, but I guess there would never be an answer to the lovely ‘but why’ question, excellent take down by the way.. i might be overthinking into the connotations of the words take down but i wasn’t trying to belittle anyone i was just trying to explain that if you want to tell someone their view is flawed and wrong you kind of have to have a reason for that which you are willing to state and back up ... just saying someone is wrong and calling them childish for asking why you think they are wrong followed by i don’t have to tell you what my view is ... well thats not really a reasoned debate is it " It is not & I didn’t mean to imply you were belittling the poster, I meant it in a point by point take down, dismantling the argument brick by brick in a logical way with no personal attack, just a reasoned exchange...but met with not much really. | |||
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"How is it possible that influenza deaths are the lowest for 130 years? Is it because the Covid 19 germs are gobbling up the influenza germs? " Nope | |||
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"How is it possible that influenza deaths are the lowest for 130 years? Is it because the Covid 19 germs are gobbling up the influenza germs? " Covid got to them first. | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. " agreed , and there should be additional support in place to mitigate this i dont think its a strong enough argument to just scrap lockdown however | |||
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"The CRG - which was formed in November to oppose a third lockdown and says it has the backing of 63 MPs for its letter - said the prime minister should set out a plan for "a return to normal life" from 8 March, the date pencilled in for school reopening. "All restrictions remaining after 8 March should be proportionate to the ever-increasing number of people we have protected," the group said - adding that the burden of proof should be on ministers to show restrictions were necessary. -------- You have to ask yourself who's making the money out of this and do they have our best interest at heart. Before you all start shouting about deaths and infection numbers PLEASE give me the stats from an alternative unbiased source. Whatever figures they give out there will be a high percentage of people who will not question them. I'm not a nonbeliever, or antivaxxer etc I'm just a regular person that has an instinct to question things. I think it's time we saw a LOT more transparency on the government's actions and publish all statistics." So what Boris has an 80 majority and the backing of labour | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. " Thats there problem and hard luck for them | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them" Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family. | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family." It is an excuse sorry cannot sympathise as you have the internet a phone etc you are not alone.Also you have films TV in this society we are rarely alone.I have had more contact with people since I have been isolated. It is not perfect but people should count there blessings. | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family.It is an excuse sorry cannot sympathise as you have the internet a phone etc you are not alone.Also you have films TV in this society we are rarely alone.I have had more contact with people since I have been isolated. It is not perfect but people should count there blessings." I don't understand the lack of empathy to be honest because yes we can contact friends on the phone and yes other people have it worse but it doesn't mean people can't be struggling and I think that's quite an unhelpful attitude to have. Just because some have it worse doesn't mean others can't struggle. | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family.It is an excuse sorry cannot sympathise as you have the internet a phone etc you are not alone.Also you have films TV in this society we are rarely alone.I have had more contact with people since I have been isolated. It is not perfect but people should count there blessings. I don't understand the lack of empathy to be honest because yes we can contact friends on the phone and yes other people have it worse but it doesn't mean people can't be struggling and I think that's quite an unhelpful attitude to have. Just because some have it worse doesn't mean others can't struggle." agreed and recognising people are struggling doesn’t mean get rid of lockdown either if that is the worry - we know its a necessary evil but can still appreciate its a bloody crap time | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family.It is an excuse sorry cannot sympathise as you have the internet a phone etc you are not alone.Also you have films TV in this society we are rarely alone.I have had more contact with people since I have been isolated. It is not perfect but people should count there blessings. I don't understand the lack of empathy to be honest because yes we can contact friends on the phone and yes other people have it worse but it doesn't mean people can't be struggling and I think that's quite an unhelpful attitude to have. Just because some have it worse doesn't mean others can't struggle." There are some genuine cases of people suffering I exept but for most it nonsense. I am never politically correct. I have someone in my road who has nobody and is 80 odd but I talk to her everyday allways listen I try to help her.Maybe a few others should look at those worse off than themselves and stop being so selfish and moaning. | |||
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"Some people are not well-equipped mentally to cope with this house arrest, this imprisonment. Thats there problem and hard luck for them Thats a horrible thing to say. Most of us are not well equipped to be completely isolated for months on end from our friends and family.It is an excuse sorry cannot sympathise as you have the internet a phone etc you are not alone.Also you have films TV in this society we are rarely alone.I have had more contact with people since I have been isolated. It is not perfect but people should count there blessings. I don't understand the lack of empathy to be honest because yes we can contact friends on the phone and yes other people have it worse but it doesn't mean people can't be struggling and I think that's quite an unhelpful attitude to have. Just because some have it worse doesn't mean others can't struggle.There are some genuine cases of people suffering I exept but for most it nonsense. I am never politically correct. I have someone in my road who has nobody and is 80 odd but I talk to her everyday allways listen I try to help her.Maybe a few others should look at those worse off than themselves and stop being so selfish and moaning." Everybody who is struggling is a valid case it doesn't matter whether you think they should be struggling. It's not about political correctness is about being compassionate. Its Great that you talk to your Neighbour and I'm sorry that she feels alone but I'm not gonna apologise for struggling because I haven't been able to see my friends and family for nearly ayear. I am all for lockdown I am also or for people being compassionate. | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. Today agree. I'm curious how they quantity deaths full stop. If you look into how they are now allowed to grade deaths for the certificate, they are allowed to add Covid if they 'think' it contributed. This is not challenged. My neighbour knows this first hand as her father died of MS and they have put Covid which she is legally challenging now." No. They put Covid on death very only where someone has tested positive either in life or prior to a post mortem. Only in the first weeks did Covid go on any certs without having been a positive test. There will be some false positives in that but it’s a tiny proportion | |||
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"These are the same group who said that the second lockdown wasn’t needed and called for London to move to tier 1 just as the new variant was taking off, so I am not listening to them, they have the deaths of 10 of thousands n their hands and if they had their way it would be a lot worse. I am curious about how you quantify the deaths that have been caused by lockdown on the other side. Do they not appear in this calculus? Areas I am thinking about are the spike in cancer deaths and other illnesses that have arisen from people not attending hospitals due to lockdown fears. Also curious about your views on the deaths that will occur in the future due to reduced life chances of children at school. I am curious to know how death are caused by lockdown. I keep hearing about them but no one cared to explain how these deaths are caused. I think there is an argument that the likes of suicides has gone up and people have died of other illnesses, because the focus has been on covid Yeah. I've heard that too. Except that a Google search lead me to suicide prevention charities that say that there are no numbers available to back that theory. Also, no one has ever explained to me how we treat cancer and heart attacks when hospitals are full of covid patients and a big chunk of staff are off sick. My sister in law had a serious operation postpone recently because the surgeon caught covid i think for many that committed suicide lockdown / job loss will have been the straw that broke the camels back so to speak because its such an emotive subject people dont want to consider that without covid there may have been a different straw but i guess if what you say about the numbers not actually increasing is true then it must follow that without covid something else would have caused it what is true though is that even before covid mental health services were poor and difficult to access, we don’t fund mental health to the same level as physical health (and many argue physical health is already underfunded) - many more people need more help and while it might not have increased suicides, less serious levels of mental health issues have definitely increased. with all this isolation and time to do nothing but think there are alot of people struggling mentally, some will bounce back when restrictions are lifted but many others will be a new additional burden to the already struggling mental health service - it needs to be a big focus going forward I think the thing which gets me is that a lot of these anti lockdown arguments put forward by the likes of these back bench tories,toby young,the daily mail etc,use job losses,suicide as their justification. However pre covid I dont remember such people being up in arms about peope losing their jobs,families thrown on the scrap heap. I just think there are ulterior motives at play."
These people are driven by ideology, not scientific research evidence. And they have no track record in working to improve the health of the masses. The opposite in fact, where their track record has been to impose substantial reductions in the public services that most of us see as essential, whether cuts to public health services, including the NHS, care services, the Sure Start programme, thus harming our youngest citizens' wellbeing and education, devastating cuts to local authorities' budgets - predominantly in poorer areas, affecting health and care services, all reflective of a few of what they stand for.
Why would anyone listen to a small bunch of self-aggrandising unknowns, imposing a rabid ideological agenda that's devoid of the very thing that should be driving a health crisis! Scientific evidence, especially that which is based on medical research and competence. These are charlatan nobodies, without any interest in the health of the citizens that they should serve. There's plenty that we're learning from the past year and a major aspect of that is that we were not cautious enough, when we relaxed restrictions, which caused many tens of thousands of needless infections and deaths. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. " Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed." Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods." You've been fucking lucky then. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods." Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. " Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives." Lower than for 6 months? Really | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives. Lower than for 6 months? Really "Sorry poor maths, 5 months. Cases have been higher than they are now since October. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives. Lower than for 6 months? Really
Sorry poor maths, 5 months. Cases have been higher than they are now since October."Depends where you are, still higher here than sept / October | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives. Lower than for 6 months? Really
Sorry poor maths, 5 months. Cases have been higher than they are now since October.
Depends where you are, still higher here than sept / October "That’s irrelevant now as we’re no longer doing localised tiers, only the country as a whole. | |||
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"I have to say I do to a degree support this. The costs of lockdown are immense and while I’m sure it has its supporters, many will be running out of life savings or losing their livelihoods as this continues. Blindly ignoring the financial costs of lockdown will hurt us far more in the end. They may sound a little extreme but I imagine they don’t expect to get what they ask for and are going for a haggling position, expecting to be knocked down to a more realistic position. Open the shops as normal, staff will go off sick with covid leaving the store to close due to lack of staff. No win situation, except less people get the virus when the shop is closed. Yet I have worked in a shop since lockdown 1. We’ve had a single confirmed case, never shut once throughout the pandemic and have had, at most 4 people isolate before receiving negative tests. Shoos should be opening now. Time to rescue peoples livlihoods. Shops will open eventually, nobody said lockdown will go on forever. There are benchmarks and targets to be set before we can re-open safely. February is too early to contemplate lifting lockdown. Disagree entirely. Cases are lower than they’ve been for nearly 6 months. We’re 100% in a place where we can consider small improvements to people’s lives. Lower than for 6 months? Really
Sorry poor maths, 5 months. Cases have been higher than they are now since October.
Depends where you are, still higher here than sept / October
That’s irrelevant now as we’re no longer doing localised tiers, only the country as a whole. "So how can you say that is irrelevant if numbers are still higher in some areas than they were 6 months ago, makes no sense that statement | |||
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