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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. " Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?! | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?!" So what are they thinking? | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. " What don't they understand? | |||
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"I'm lost..... Why is it wrong to look forward optimistically?" Because seems quite few people seem to love lockdown | |||
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"I'm lost..... Why is it wrong to look forward optimistically?" Precisely! We're not going to continue living in lockdown forever ... and it's positive to plan and look forward! I'm sure people realise that covid will become more like flu, perhaps with localised outbreaks, just part of life but life will continue ... Better and healthier than being a defeatist surely? | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. " So you're predicting we will be in lockdown forever? No more "non essential shops". No more pubs. No more restaurants. No more meeting friends and family. No more social life. No more job for millions. You do realise people know the virus is here forever but when they say when it's over they mean when we have a best degree of normality back? Or are you really that blissfully ignorant? | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?!" . Not incredible at all. “When it’s over” basically means when that person feels ok about meeting again or for 95% on here it will be the forever reason that they declare they won’t meet. | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?!" I mean....if you read the Bible do you take that literally too??? Sorry but I see far too much of this. Sweeping generalisations and some quite nasty insults thrown at people over covid. I just want to go back to a time when everyone isn’t at each others throats over things they (usually) know bugger all about. | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?!" You say you understand what people are thinking then demonstrate that you quote clearly don't. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. " . Exactly. The forever reason to proudly declare on a hook up site that they won’t meet. | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?! You say you understand what people are thinking then demonstrate that you quote clearly don't." Some folk just love to be the skunk at the picnic! Any reason to feel superior, and belittle others. People are a funny species...... After the last 12 months, a little positivity goes a long way   | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. " Social media is awash with these types. A simple statement along the lines of I wish I could meet my mates for a pint is often greeted with horror and condemnation. How can you be so selfish?? People are dying and all you can do is think about drink. Etc etc etc. We all know about covid and how infectious it is but as far as I'm aware it hasn't yet started spreading due to people wishing their old lives back. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Social media is awash with these types. A simple statement along the lines of I wish I could meet my mates for a pint is often greeted with horror and condemnation. How can you be so selfish?? People are dying and all you can do is think about drink. Etc etc etc. We all know about covid and how infectious it is but as far as I'm aware it hasn't yet started spreading due to people wishing their old lives back." | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?! So what are they thinking? " They think everything will go back to the way it was. On so many levels this is never going to happen. | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?! So what are they thinking? They think everything will go back to the way it was. On so many levels this is never going to happen. " That's not how I read it. Like most others I see it quite clearly as shorthand for saying life going back to some level of normality, where people can meet, go to the cinema, go to gigs, visit the pub with friends etc. etc. It's not going to go back to being exactly the same as it was, but the world and society is always changing. You just get on with it. | |||
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"What are you actually suggesting?" Do you mean me? | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?! So what are they thinking? They think everything will go back to the way it was. On so many levels this is never going to happen. " Doom mongers such as yourself often quote other pandemics such as the Spanish Flu. They never mention any other pandemic in their lists as it's the only one they've ever heard of but I'm presuming here given your extensive input here that you are an expert on global pandemics so please, tell us which of the pandemics civilisation never got bck to normal from. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. " Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. " Dare I mention 'Aids'. We all learn to live with it, it will probably never ever be over. Society will adapt given time. Just my opinion though. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. Dare I mention 'Aids'. We all learn to live with it, it will probably never ever be over. Society will adapt given time. Just my opinion though." Probably a better comparison is measles or polio. It's a non zero risk which we drive down through vaccination. | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. " You missed the post that did call everyone who thinks we’d go back to some sort of normal stupid then | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. " Just this! | |||
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"Whats normal ?? and we really hope for the nation that so called normal never ever returns !! as that means kids going hungry ?? kids in poverty ?? nurses using food banks and the list is endless but mainly how much we rely on paying people poverty wages to keep this country going ?? and who's saved most of us ?? been working through all this ..and it's only on the agenda now because of covid as most of us including us ignored it ?? so hopefully we'll remember ....doubt it though ... "This is the point where someone points out that people cared about this before, then gets howled down for virtue signalling, isn't it? | |||
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"this is the point where someone points out that people cared about this before, then gets howled down for virtue signalling, isn't it?.... Nope a few did ...we sure did ..but agreed on the virtue signalling bit or even oh look there's a nice band wagon to hitch my horse to ...and as my dad always told us ...your x has a impact and says a lot about you "  | |||
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"They thought they'd never get rid of small pox, never have a treatment for syphilis, they thought we'd never have a treatment for aids/hiv either but look at us now " We still haven't got rid of flu but the whole country doesn't grind to a halt every winter despite the annual strain on the NHS. If we can't eradicate Covid then we have to learn to live with it and cope with it. | |||
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"this is the point where someone points out that people cared about this before, then gets howled down for virtue signalling, isn't it?.... Nope a few did ...we sure did ..but agreed on the virtue signalling bit or even oh look there's a nice band wagon to hitch my horse to ...and as my dad always told us ...your x has a impact and says a lot about you " I mean I was being sarcastic... Imagine caring about injustice for its own sake. Heavens above. | |||
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"They thought they'd never get rid of small pox, never have a treatment for syphilis, they thought we'd never have a treatment for aids/hiv either but look at us now We still haven't got rid of flu but the whole country doesn't grind to a halt every winter despite the annual strain on the NHS. If we can't eradicate Covid then we have to learn to live with it and cope with it." The graphs comparing flu seasons to Covid put paid to this sort of "we'll flu never did this" stuff. | |||
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"What are you actually suggesting?" It’s my view and I stand by it. You need to accept that we all have a different understanding of what this is. You ask what pandemic have we not recovered from. The question should be what viruses can we not stop. I will give you an old virus been around for a very very long time and when it infects humans there is no cure. Rabies, the bite from an infected dog will kill a human in a very painful and horrific way. You might survive if they can commence treatment within 24 hours of the infection, however, most people think cleaning the wound is all they need to do and by the time the symptoms arrive or they realise it was an infected dog, it’s too late. This virus is like an Exocet missile as it travels up the spine into the brain. We have not been able to wipe out Rabies. There is no cure. It’s still a real threat in many parts of the world. So rather than trying to put me down for having a clear view on the nature of viral infections why don’t you listen to the scientific briefings. It’s normally 24-48 hours later that the media hook onto the real message in the briefings. Why do you think there is so much questions continuing around the SA variant. Because it’s a significant mutation. It’s a game changer. | |||
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"OP do you think people in the UK and around the world would just sit back and do nothing if it was shown that strict lockdown rules werent needed anymore ?" That's why they make use wear the masks, that mask is going to make us compliant and subservient slaves.... apparently. | |||
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"They thought they'd never get rid of small pox, never have a treatment for syphilis, they thought we'd never have a treatment for aids/hiv either but look at us now We still haven't got rid of flu but the whole country doesn't grind to a halt every winter despite the annual strain on the NHS. If we can't eradicate Covid then we have to learn to live with it and cope with it. The graphs comparing flu seasons to Covid put paid to this sort of "we'll flu never did this" stuff." True, it's a new illness so new measures have had to be adopted. To suggest that it's possible to continue forever more in a state of government funded financial life support and restricted freedoms just isn't realistically achievable. | |||
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"What are you actually suggesting? It’s my view and I stand by it. You need to accept that we all have a different understanding of what this is. You ask what pandemic have we not recovered from. The question should be what viruses can we not stop. I will give you an old virus been around for a very very long time and when it infects humans there is no cure. Rabies, the bite from an infected dog will kill a human in a very painful and horrific way. You might survive if they can commence treatment within 24 hours of the infection, however, most people think cleaning the wound is all they need to do and by the time the symptoms arrive or they realise it was an infected dog, it’s too late. This virus is like an Exocet missile as it travels up the spine into the brain. We have not been able to wipe out Rabies. There is no cure. It’s still a real threat in many parts of the world. So rather than trying to put me down for having a clear view on the nature of viral infections why don’t you listen to the scientific briefings. It’s normally 24-48 hours later that the media hook onto the real message in the briefings. Why do you think there is so much questions continuing around the SA variant. Because it’s a significant mutation. It’s a game changer. " And the mRNA vaccines take six weeks to alter, Oxford will have a new one by autumn. The only virus we've completely succeeded against is smallpox. But tell me, how much does polio or measles impinge on your daily life, and why? | |||
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"They thought they'd never get rid of small pox, never have a treatment for syphilis, they thought we'd never have a treatment for aids/hiv either but look at us now We still haven't got rid of flu but the whole country doesn't grind to a halt every winter despite the annual strain on the NHS. If we can't eradicate Covid then we have to learn to live with it and cope with it. The graphs comparing flu seasons to Covid put paid to this sort of "we'll flu never did this" stuff. True, it's a new illness so new measures have had to be adopted. To suggest that it's possible to continue forever more in a state of government funded financial life support and restricted freedoms just isn't realistically achievable." I didn't suggest that. Hope this helps | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. " Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list " It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? " Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? " It is as you say reasonable in these circumstances for people to look forward to the end of covid. The vaccines in time will give us hope to return to sone sort of normality in the future. Maybe the op was referring to those who wNt this to be over to suit their own means by way of parties and holidays, and the OP is right in inferring that this covid problem isn't going anywhere soon and will be here for the long haul, thereby parties clubs and holidays will all be under restrictions for the foreseeable future | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue " and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery "Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them "Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me. "Persecution complexes aside, there have been well over 100,000 deaths in the UK and countless of them are terrible tragedies. The friends you have lost are certainly among them, and a reminder that it's important to be there for people. To go back to the point of this thread, the sooner we get to a semblance of normality the better. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
Persecution complexes aside, there have been well over 100,000 deaths in the UK and countless of them are terrible tragedies. The friends you have lost are certainly among them, and a reminder that it's important to be there for people.
To go back to the point of this thread, the sooner we get to a semblance of normality the better."100% | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me. "i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both "And your expertise in mental health issues ? | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both "Think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at. We’re not dealing with both. I’m not saying it’s one or the other, or that it is the loss of their businesses or homes that’s driven them to suicide. I know they were suffering beforehand. It’s why all 3 of them left the police in the first place. The point I was trying to make is the second anyone is critical of the actions that have been taken, they get jumped on and called names. There’s valid criticisms to be made on both sides of this debate, but I only ever see one side being shut down. Which is why, if you look back to my very first comment on this thread, I took issue with people being called stupid for expecting their lives to get back to some kind of normality. That doesn’t help anybody either. That’s all. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ? "you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you? ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both
Think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.
We’re not dealing with both. I’m not saying it’s one or the other, or that it is the loss of their businesses or homes that’s driven them to suicide. I know they were suffering beforehand. It’s why all 3 of them left the police in the first place. The point I was trying to make is the second anyone is critical of the actions that have been taken, they get jumped on and called names. There’s valid criticisms to be made on both sides of this debate, but I only ever see one side being shut down. Which is why, if you look back to my very first comment on this thread, I took issue with people being called stupid for expecting their lives to get back to some kind of normality. That doesn’t help anybody either. That’s all. "yes sorry i based my reply just on the post i quoted ... i agree on your other point about things “getting back to normal” , very few people mean that to be exactly as life was before, but i an pretty sure so does the OP and he was just being facetious to make a point i definitely see the abuse/ no interest in hearing your point of view go both ways (or at least posts where people just repeat nonsensical statements over and over to wind the other side up then tempers get lost) but i guess it depends what side of the argument you fall on how much you take notice of each side , less likely to see something as shutting the others down if you agree with it for example my last post is apparently invalid because i don’t have a mental health qualification when all i was really saying is the government could and should be doing something about both mental health issues and covid ... it doesn’t take an expert to work that out | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. " Exactly and very well put. That's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it without people accusing you of negativity, doomongering and whatever else. I think you are being very realistic and can't see why your opinion is considered 'negative'. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life "You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both
Think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.
We’re not dealing with both. I’m not saying it’s one or the other, or that it is the loss of their businesses or homes that’s driven them to suicide. I know they were suffering beforehand. It’s why all 3 of them left the police in the first place. The point I was trying to make is the second anyone is critical of the actions that have been taken, they get jumped on and called names. There’s valid criticisms to be made on both sides of this debate, but I only ever see one side being shut down. Which is why, if you look back to my very first comment on this thread, I took issue with people being called stupid for expecting their lives to get back to some kind of normality. That doesn’t help anybody either. That’s all.
yes sorry i based my reply just on the post i quoted ... i agree on your other point about things “getting back to normal” , very few people mean that to be exactly as life was before, but i an pretty sure so does the OP and he was just being facetious to make a point
i definitely see the abuse/ no interest in hearing your point of view go both ways (or at least posts where people just repeat nonsensical statements over and over to wind the other side up then tempers get lost) but i guess it depends what side of the argument you fall on how much you take notice of each side , less likely to see something as shutting the others down if you agree with it
for example my last post is apparently invalid because i don’t have a mental health qualification when all i was really saying is the government could and should be doing something about both mental health issues and covid ... it doesn’t take an expert to work that out
"There’s facetiousness on both sides for sure and none of it helps in the slightest. Tbf the OP didn’t call anyone stupid, but someone very early on did. The terms hurled at people are all loaded too - covid ‘denier’ (used because it connects to Holocaust denier), ‘anti vaxxer’ (used because there is a very small, very scary fringe who are actually proper anti vaccines in every way and lumping those even slightly critical of a covid vaccine gets lumped in with the conspiracy theorists). All designed to shut down discussion. Absolutely none of it helps | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement "blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue | |||
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"Covid seems have created a whole new opportunity for people who think they are better than others for no obvious reason to call other people stupid or idiots. Usually those people are the most stupid because they are just trying to look clever and failing miserably. Nobody was called stupid or idiots. Your words. I said ignorance is bliss. I wish I was blissfully ignorant of the nature of a virul pandemic, I wish I didn’t know how variants or mutations occur. I wish I could believe in the briefing statements word for word. Being positive, I know how I will change and how I will resume a different lifestyle that takes into account a new and always present virus. Exactly and very well put. That's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it without people accusing you of negativity, doomongering and whatever else. I think you are being very realistic and can't see why your opinion is considered 'negative'. " It was yourself that called people stupid. "Yes, it’s a quite incredible statement. It’s right across the forums ! Do they seriously not get it ?The other one is ‘after covid’. I understand what people are thinking but are they that stupid?!" | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement
blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead
if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue "we should be putting appropriate support in place to support people with mental health problems no matter what the underlying cause ... just making sure people have a job and home doesn’t even touch the sides of the issue | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both
Think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.
We’re not dealing with both. I’m not saying it’s one or the other, or that it is the loss of their businesses or homes that’s driven them to suicide. I know they were suffering beforehand. It’s why all 3 of them left the police in the first place. The point I was trying to make is the second anyone is critical of the actions that have been taken, they get jumped on and called names. There’s valid criticisms to be made on both sides of this debate, but I only ever see one side being shut down. Which is why, if you look back to my very first comment on this thread, I took issue with people being called stupid for expecting their lives to get back to some kind of normality. That doesn’t help anybody either. That’s all.
yes sorry i based my reply just on the post i quoted ... i agree on your other point about things “getting back to normal” , very few people mean that to be exactly as life was before, but i an pretty sure so does the OP and he was just being facetious to make a point
i definitely see the abuse/ no interest in hearing your point of view go both ways (or at least posts where people just repeat nonsensical statements over and over to wind the other side up then tempers get lost) but i guess it depends what side of the argument you fall on how much you take notice of each side , less likely to see something as shutting the others down if you agree with it
for example my last post is apparently invalid because i don’t have a mental health qualification when all i was really saying is the government could and should be doing something about both mental health issues and covid ... it doesn’t take an expert to work that out
There’s facetiousness on both sides for sure and none of it helps in the slightest. Tbf the OP didn’t call anyone stupid, but someone very early on did. The terms hurled at people are all loaded too - covid ‘denier’ (used because it connects to Holocaust denier), ‘anti vaxxer’ (used because there is a very small, very scary fringe who are actually proper anti vaccines in every way and lumping those even slightly critical of a covid vaccine gets lumped in with the conspiracy theorists). All designed to shut down discussion. Absolutely none of it helps "Cuts both ways. In fact someone PM'd me off the back of a comment on this thread to give me abuse then block me so I couldn't reply. A cowardly thing to do... but it did give me a laugh. And that's the point. If you are confident enough in your opinion then defend it. If not, then question why you're not confident enough. I don't see the problem. The constant accusations of bullying which I've seen, because people have robust disagreements really doesn't wash. As for that small, scary fringe, there's enough of them for it to be a problem, and the opinions they hold are really stupid. I've got no problem calling them on it. Some views shouldn't be acceptable. Someone said earlier that the subject has given people the opportunity to call others stupid. In many instances it's given people the opportunity to publicly air their stupidity. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement
blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead
if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue
we should be putting appropriate support in place to support people with mental health problems no matter what the underlying cause ... just making sure people have a job and home doesn’t even touch the sides of the issue "I’d wager keeping your home is a pretty big negative impact factor. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both
Think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.
We’re not dealing with both. I’m not saying it’s one or the other, or that it is the loss of their businesses or homes that’s driven them to suicide. I know they were suffering beforehand. It’s why all 3 of them left the police in the first place. The point I was trying to make is the second anyone is critical of the actions that have been taken, they get jumped on and called names. There’s valid criticisms to be made on both sides of this debate, but I only ever see one side being shut down. Which is why, if you look back to my very first comment on this thread, I took issue with people being called stupid for expecting their lives to get back to some kind of normality. That doesn’t help anybody either. That’s all.
yes sorry i based my reply just on the post i quoted ... i agree on your other point about things “getting back to normal” , very few people mean that to be exactly as life was before, but i an pretty sure so does the OP and he was just being facetious to make a point
i definitely see the abuse/ no interest in hearing your point of view go both ways (or at least posts where people just repeat nonsensical statements over and over to wind the other side up then tempers get lost) but i guess it depends what side of the argument you fall on how much you take notice of each side , less likely to see something as shutting the others down if you agree with it
for example my last post is apparently invalid because i don’t have a mental health qualification when all i was really saying is the government could and should be doing something about both mental health issues and covid ... it doesn’t take an expert to work that out
There’s facetiousness on both sides for sure and none of it helps in the slightest. Tbf the OP didn’t call anyone stupid, but someone very early on did. The terms hurled at people are all loaded too - covid ‘denier’ (used because it connects to Holocaust denier), ‘anti vaxxer’ (used because there is a very small, very scary fringe who are actually proper anti vaccines in every way and lumping those even slightly critical of a covid vaccine gets lumped in with the conspiracy theorists). All designed to shut down discussion. Absolutely none of it helps
Cuts both ways. In fact someone PM'd me off the back of a comment on this thread to give me abuse then block me so I couldn't reply. A cowardly thing to do... but it did give me a laugh. And that's the point. If you are confident enough in your opinion then defend it. If not, then question why you're not confident enough. I don't see the problem. The constant accusations of bullying which I've seen, because people have robust disagreements really doesn't wash.
As for that small, scary fringe, there's enough of them for it to be a problem, and the opinions they hold are really stupid. I've got no problem calling them on it. Some views shouldn't be acceptable. Someone said earlier that the subject has given people the opportunity to call others stupid. In many instances it's given people the opportunity to publicly air their stupidity. "There’s nothing wrong with robustly defending a position. But abusing someone is not acceptable. And some views aren’t acceptable, but everyone has a right to theirs. | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement
blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead
if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue
we should be putting appropriate support in place to support people with mental health problems no matter what the underlying cause ... just making sure people have a job and home doesn’t even touch the sides of the issue
I’d wager keeping your home is a pretty big negative impact factor. "of course it is but if there is appropriate action plans in place to safeguard your mental health , get a roof over your head temporarily to begin with, then properly back on your feet and into more permanent accommodation then there is no reason it should be a death sentence much like when we have a vaccine rolled out to reduce symptoms and as we are building more knowledge on treatments for covid we will have mitigations in place to stop that becoming a death sentence but its these mitigation plans and support and the lack there of (for all mental health issues) which is where we should be directing our anger at the government as this is where they are hugely dropping the ball even pre covid times but. more so now that we know its currently a more prevalent issue (to their credit they do have furlough in place and have made it so that people cant be evicted at the moment but that still doesn’t touch the sides of the mental health support required to help people see a future beyond the immediate circumstances) instead the poster that brought it up can be clearly seen across multiple threads just calling to cancel lockdown ... that just swaps ones set of (more immediate) deaths for another and solves none or the underlying problems ... if we cancel lockdown suicide wont stop tomorrow | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement
blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead
if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue
we should be putting appropriate support in place to support people with mental health problems no matter what the underlying cause ... just making sure people have a job and home doesn’t even touch the sides of the issue
I’d wager keeping your home is a pretty big negative impact factor.
of course it is but if there is appropriate action plans in place to safeguard your mental health , get a roof over your head temporarily to begin with, then properly back on your feet and into more permanent accommodation then there is no reason it should be a death sentence
much like when we have a vaccine rolled out to reduce symptoms and as we are building more knowledge on treatments for covid we will have mitigations in place to stop that becoming a death sentence
but its these mitigation plans and support and the lack there of (for all mental health issues) which is where we should be directing our anger at the government as this is where they are hugely dropping the ball even pre covid times but. more so now that we know its currently a more prevalent issue (to their credit they do have furlough in place and have made it so that people cant be evicted at the moment but that still doesn’t touch the sides of the mental health support required to help people see a future beyond the immediate circumstances)
instead the poster that brought it up can be clearly seen across multiple threads just calling to cancel lockdown ... that just swaps ones set of (more immediate) deaths for another and solves none or the underlying problems ... if we cancel lockdown suicide wont stop tomorrow "So you have absolutely no evidence of your statement ? And no expertise to quantify it and instead try to sling mud at us | |||
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"They thought they'd never get rid of small pox, never have a treatment for syphilis, they thought we'd never have a treatment for aids/hiv either but look at us now " Totally agree with your statement as people are more advanced in knowledge in viruses of any kind and quick to find a outcome to treatment or controlling and I think only way to come out of this pandemic is if everyone received the vaccine I'm not knowledgeable but I believe from history our ancestors who were knowledgeable even to predict because this virus will be back in 10 years once it's gone and won't be here as long but never return after second plus I think number of deaths would be low but might be only those who decided against the vaccine... | |||
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"People are in many types of awful situations at present. Struggling financially, home insecurities, choosing between feeding the kids, topping up prepayment gas and electricity meters, whilst having no income or work stability or protection. It's reasonable for them to consider when they may get an end to much of that. Absolutely not ,the fall out from all this is going to be horrendous, God help us if we need any routine non life threatening operations, unemployment, too many to list It's reasonable for people to consider the end of their suffering, from the situations that I outlined. Who would want families to struggle between the choices of feeding children, topping up expensive gas and electricity prepayment meters to keep warm and be able to cook safely, whilst having no income or job security? Won’t be long now till shit hits the fan with the economy and unemployment becomes a real big issue and it wont be the first or last time that unemployment has been as issue but to quote the kids “we move”
we have to prioritise fires to fight ... unemployment snd the resultant poverty takes longer to kill someone than covid so we deal with that first and then we plan economic recovery Tell that to those who lose there homes and jobs , bet that will be a big comfort to them
Already lost several friends to suicide due to job losses, businesses going under and losing homes. The minute I’m even remotely critical of government policy I get branded all sorts. This is why threads like this where I see abuse thrown about infuriate me.
i an very sorry for the loss that you have experienced and i dont mean this to be crass so i apologise if it seems that way because it is a sensitive subject
job loss, business loss and home loss are not the cause of suicide
suicide is a symptom (unfortunately a final one) of a mental health condition
i dont disagree that the loss of those things can compound existing mental health conditions and make them worse but curing homelessness or unemployment will not cure suicide
the government can and should be doing more to help with mental health at all times but especially now that they know measures put in place to reduce covid are exacerbating mental health problems
but this school of thought that its covid deaths or suicide deaths one or the other helps nobody because actually we can and should be dealing to both And your expertise in mental health issues ?
you dont have to be a qualified expert in something to hold an educated opinion , but how does the experience of the opposite suit you?
ive been in a situation where i have lost my job and my home in the past ... and yet i am still alive so homelessness and unemployment on their own are not enough to kill someone
however covid on its own is absolutely enough to kill someone or permanently reduce their quality of life You said that Job loss ,business loss , home loss is not are not cause of suicide your words ,how do you know that ? We are not experts but very much doubt that statement
blunt as it is if job loss or homelessness ALONE were the reasons and direct cause for suicide then both the homeless and unemployed rates would be zero as they would all be dead
if your read all of my post rather than be selective you will see i already agreed that homelessness and unemployment can add to existing mental health issues and make them worse but directly correlating one to the other hugely oversimplifies an incredibly complex issue
we should be putting appropriate support in place to support people with mental health problems no matter what the underlying cause ... just making sure people have a job and home doesn’t even touch the sides of the issue
I’d wager keeping your home is a pretty big negative impact factor.
of course it is but if there is appropriate action plans in place to safeguard your mental health , get a roof over your head temporarily to begin with, then properly back on your feet and into more permanent accommodation then there is no reason it should be a death sentence
much like when we have a vaccine rolled out to reduce symptoms and as we are building more knowledge on treatments for covid we will have mitigations in place to stop that becoming a death sentence
but its these mitigation plans and support and the lack there of (for all mental health issues) which is where we should be directing our anger at the government as this is where they are hugely dropping the ball even pre covid times but. more so now that we know its currently a more prevalent issue (to their credit they do have furlough in place and have made it so that people cant be evicted at the moment but that still doesn’t touch the sides of the mental health support required to help people see a future beyond the immediate circumstances)
instead the poster that brought it up can be clearly seen across multiple threads just calling to cancel lockdown ... that just swaps ones set of (more immediate) deaths for another and solves none or the underlying problems ... if we cancel lockdown suicide wont stop tomorrow So you have absolutely no evidence of your statement ? And no expertise to quantify it and instead try to sling mud at us "Since you asked the question first, so clearly think it's relevant, what exactly are you an expert in? And do you only post on subjects which fall into that category? I suspect I already know the answers to both questions but stand by to have my opinions changed
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"I'm lost..... Why is it wrong to look forward optimistically?" I try and look forward as well, fed up of people saying negative things | |||
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" So you have absolutely no evidence of your statement ? And no expertise to quantify it and instead try to sling mud at us " the evidence is suicide existed before covid, and homeless and unemployed people still exist now therefore cannot be the sole cause of suicide there is a difference between correlation, influence and causation feel free however to provide some evidence to counter your point though as that seems to be lacking and if you care to point out which mud ive slung ill apologise for that too ... to my knowledge a differing opinion in a non aggressive non offensive manner isn’t mud and neither is repeating back what someone else said ... if you take offence to that perhaps consider what was wrong with what you said in the first place | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. So you're predicting we will be in lockdown forever? No more "non essential shops". No more pubs. No more restaurants. No more meeting friends and family. No more social life. No more job for millions. You do realise people know the virus is here forever but when they say when it's over they mean when we have a best degree of normality back? Or are you really that blissfully ignorant?" I can't see anything about restaurants, pubs or essential shops in what he actually said | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. So you're predicting we will be in lockdown forever? No more "non essential shops". No more pubs. No more restaurants. No more meeting friends and family. No more social life. No more job for millions. You do realise people know the virus is here forever but when they say when it's over they mean when we have a best degree of normality back? Or are you really that blissfully ignorant? I can't see anything about restaurants, pubs or essential shops in what he actually said " I didn't say he did. But he is as far as I'm aware remarking on folks when this is over comments and unless I'm very much mistaken the things I have listed are just some of the things folk want this over for. | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. " I agree, this virus will keep us in lick down forever, just like Spanish Flu, Ebola, Bubonic Plague etc... Cal  | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. I agree, this virus will keep us in lick down forever, just like Spanish Flu, Ebola, Bubonic Plague etc... Cal "The Spanish Flu outbreak lasted somewhere between 12 months to 2 years... | |||
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"This makes me smile and I realise they don’t understand. Ahh well ignorance is bliss. I agree, this virus will keep us in lick down forever, just like Spanish Flu, Ebola, Bubonic Plague etc... Cal "Ebola has never been a worldwide pandemic, thankfully. The deathrate from Ebola is 25-90%. It doesn't really compare with Covid 19. | |||
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"I'm lost..... Why is it wrong to look forward optimistically? Because seems quite few people seem to love lockdown " I don't think anyone loves it. But people have learnt how to cope with it better than others.there is no right or wrong here. | |||
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"Cal is being facetious after the opening post mocking those who look forward to getting things back normal. He is making the point that we do move on from these things." That is right! Cal | |||
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"Cal is being facetious after the opening post mocking those who look forward to getting things back normal. He is making the point that we do move on from these things. That is right! Cal" I'd love to hear a reason why anyone would make this last forever. I mean I've heard the conspiracy theories but I like reality  | |||
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" We still haven't got rid of flu but the whole country doesn't grind to a halt every winter despite the annual strain on the NHS. If we can't eradicate Covid then we have to learn to live with it and cope with it." exactly
The sooner we all get on with living with it the better. | |||
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