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The great reopening

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

Durham

Don't think this is the right way to go about things, but we also understand that business owners must be in total despair.

We are fortunate that our business is surviving, but we have heard of some people where their business has gone bankrupt. A lifetime of hard work, just gone, through no fault of their own. It's soul destroying and heart breaking.

Businesses need more financial help to ride this storm. There hasn't been enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

£10,000 fine......I doubt it....

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By *all me FlikWoman
over a year ago

Galaxy Far Far Away

Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I hear you some folk must be at the point of doing absolutely anything to keep afloat with businesses they’ve put their life into. In the fear of sounding big headed I predicted this last year that folk would eventually have enough although it’s came earlier than I thought. I thought if there is another lockdown after mass vaccination then people would revolt but this wee protest will be interesting to see who and how many go through with it

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think."

Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support

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By *all me FlikWoman
over a year ago

Galaxy Far Far Away


"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think.

Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support "

Once everyone, or at least the vast majority of people have been vaccinated there will be no need for further lockdowns...thats the whole point of vaccinating. Its now down to the public to accept the vaccine.

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

It must be a truly terrible time for the small businesses forced to shut, we are small business owners, luckily not effected by covid but I know the day to day worries etc of having a small business even without being forced to shut.

I do often wonder just how the people on Furlough would react and will react one furlough stops and there is no job to go back to.

I hope I'm wrong but unemployment be huge.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think.

Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support

Once everyone, or at least the vast majority of people have been vaccinated there will be no need for further lockdowns...thats the whole point of vaccinating. Its now down to the public to accept the vaccine."

Yeah that is the kind of positivity we certainly need just hope it pans out that way for all these poor souls who feel the need to open up shop beforehand .. can’t imagine what some folk are going through

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It must be a truly terrible time for the small businesses forced to shut, we are small business owners, luckily not effected by covid but I know the day to day worries etc of having a small business even without being forced to shut.

I do often wonder just how the people on Furlough would react and will react one furlough stops and there is no job to go back to.

I hope I'm wrong but unemployment be huge.

"

If everybody was self employed or a business owner and no furlough just a few wee backhanders which btw even Iv not had .. then like you say it would be a different narrative for certain

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. "

I only seen it this morning in a local paper online done a few searches and there’s quite a few nationally going with the story .. and cannot agree with you more on both your other points but people in desperate situations and the mental health associated with losing everything the strong might bounce back right enough at least even in Shaun of the dead there was a pub to wait for it all to blow over

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. "

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

Was meant to say ,

"I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021."

Not can't

Someone please add an edit post button

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By *ap d agde coupleCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

How many of those on furlough will have a job to go back to ? Think there’s going to be mass unemployment watch how the Government will change how they count unemployment,

"

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

"

I think people in general want to get back to some sort of normal in the country, think it's pretty well accepted that there will be differences to how that was ..

Can't see any sort of civil disruption apart from very small scale with protests perhaps as there have been over restrictions etc..

Most people, family, job, mortgages etc will stoically plod on with how things are going to be..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

How many of those on furlough will have a job to go back to ? Think there’s going to be mass unemployment watch how the Government will change how they count unemployment,

"

Like they all do, they will play with the stats etc to paint as positive a picture of how they're doing as possible..

Twas ever thus..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/21 09:15:11]

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Given this has been in the media, I'm sure the police will be quick to respond. I'm sure the fines will be worse than staying closed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was meant to say ,

"I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021."

Not can't

Someone please add an edit post button

"

Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules "

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

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By *adame 2SwordsWoman
over a year ago

Victoria, London

why would any business owner put their livelihood at more risk?

i take it you are OP

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By *adame 2SwordsWoman
over a year ago

Victoria, London

I can

self employed

homeless

zero benefits

where would you like to start

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"why would any business owner put their livelihood at more risk?

i take it you are OP"

Not that I agree with this but there's plenty of business owners out there that can't see it getting any worse.

My wife's business has been absolutely decimated by this and we're having to personally fund it's existence right now in the hope that clients will come back once reopen. There's no guarantee they will.

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand "

How can they pay if they have no money?

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I haven't heard of any businesses around my area opening, it might be that most of the businesses wanting to take part are in the north of the country.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

How can they pay if they have no money? "

A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think it's irresponsible. The fact that the overriding message appears to be conspiracy-driven covid denial with underlying themes of anti-vaccination, means that any message of the very real struggles of some businesses is lost in a morass of pseudo-law, misinformation and just pure nonsense from the mouths of those whose egos appear to exceed their rationality

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By *wBiMan
over a year ago

Sherborne


"I hear you some folk must be at the point of doing absolutely anything to keep afloat with businesses they’ve put their life into. In the fear of sounding big headed I predicted this last year that folk would eventually have enough although it’s came earlier than I thought. I thought if there is another lockdown after mass vaccination then people would revolt but this wee protest will be interesting to see who and how many go through with it "

Interesting point you make in your comments, "they’ve put their life into" if we don't all stick to the rules they may not have a life to continue to put in to their business, but fully understand all the frustration.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Personally I think it's irresponsible. The fact that the overriding message appears to be conspiracy-driven covid denial with underlying themes of anti-vaccination, means that any message of the very real struggles of some businesses is lost in a morass of pseudo-law, misinformation and just pure nonsense from the mouths of those whose egos appear to exceed their rationality"

Yes. I find it fascinating that this is going on on the same platforms as the insurrection supporters fled to. Fascinating, and telling.

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand "

People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. "
I hope this will be the final lockdown but why are, Witty, Valance and Sage already concerned about next winter. This isn't going to go away for some considerable time yet

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway. "

The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable

They take fines from benefits ffs

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway.

The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable

They take fines from benefits ffs "

Stop flirting with me. You don’t stand a chance

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"why would any business owner put their livelihood at more risk?

i take it you are OP"

Yeah I suppose everyday is a risk whatever you do but fortunately for myself at this time I can get on with working outdoors I was just asking the question as I had predicted a similar outcome last year I’m sure some of the people that may follow through with it will have done there due diligence on the risks and take it as they see it

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway.

The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable

They take fines from benefits ffs

Stop flirting with me. You don’t stand a chance "

I'm sorry, my emoji was unclear. I wasn't flirting.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Personally I think it's irresponsible. The fact that the overriding message appears to be conspiracy-driven covid denial with underlying themes of anti-vaccination, means that any message of the very real struggles of some businesses is lost in a morass of pseudo-law, misinformation and just pure nonsense from the mouths of those whose egos appear to exceed their rationality"

Well until we can get les Denis to start surveying 100 people to see if the real motives are indeed conspiracy based or just desperate for cash or any of the other top 10 answers I’ll just keep from assuming for now unless I pick up a newspaper of course and read that it is conspiracy based because they are always right about people

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

How can they pay if they have no money?

A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated."

The legend of the Phoenix all ends with beginnings

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

How can they pay if they have no money?

A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated.

The legend of the Phoenix all ends with beginnings "

According to the wisdom of Swing, one should probably not fuck with fire.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules

I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand

How can they pay if they have no money? "

You don’t pay then your credit ratings drop to unreliable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was meant to say ,

"I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021."

Not can't

Someone please add an edit post button

Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter "

That could be wearing masks indoors, increased hand hygiene etc. Restrictions does not need to mean lockdowns.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke "

If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "

Yeah can you imagine people in ww2 refusing to put black out curtains up?

" you cant deny me my rights. If i wanna get blown to fuck, then i jolly well will"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "

Someone ring Childline.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can

Yeah can you imagine people in ww2 refusing to put black out curtains up?

" you cant deny me my rights. If i wanna get blown to fuck, then i jolly well will""

I gather that the idea of universal compliance is not as true as we're led to believe. But I'm sure most rule breakers were as popular as a turd in a swimming pool

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke

If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here"

Don't worry, you're from Fife... looking like a hairy mutant is par for the course.

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By *ust some cock suckerMan
over a year ago

Preston


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules "

Not read anything about this

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By *asmartsCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke

If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here

Don't worry, you're from Fife... looking like a hairy mutant is par for the course. "

Least I could have my porridge this morning with a spoon because mine are no all burnt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "

It does feel very much like toddlers stomping their feet. I've seen a very different side to some people I know.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me"

Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy.

When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides.

Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can

It does feel very much like toddlers stomping their feet. I've seen a very different side to some people I know. "

Same.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

"

Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this.

We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths.

We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity.

I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this.

We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths.

We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity.

I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. "

It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So worsening a health crisis by allowing contact and facing an enormous fine fixes... what, exactly?

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this.

We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths.

We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity.

I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection.

It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. "

Exactly. Expect to hear this week that efficacy against a certain strain is less or non effective.

It will never end.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent


"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive. "

Furlough payments don't cut it.

Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing.

We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings.

In around 2 weeks my company will be no more.

I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left.

I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this.

We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths.

We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity.

I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection.

It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. "

And this is why it's been a total fuck up by government since day one. We could have been like Australia...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland


"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive.

Furlough payments don't cut it.

Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing.

We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings.

In around 2 weeks my company will be no more.

I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left.

I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost.

"

I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent


"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive.

Furlough payments don't cut it.

Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing.

We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings.

In around 2 weeks my company will be no more.

I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left.

I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost.

I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems."

The reality is, gonna loose my business, home, not sure what the future holds but it's desperate times for a lot of people.

We are only a small business. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle.

Making ends meet was hard enough before lockdown kicked in but totally impossible now.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland


"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive.

Furlough payments don't cut it.

Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing.

We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings.

In around 2 weeks my company will be no more.

I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left.

I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost.

I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems.

The reality is, gonna loose my business, home, not sure what the future holds but it's desperate times for a lot of people.

We are only a small business. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle.

Making ends meet was hard enough before lockdown kicked in but totally impossible now. "

Absolutely heartbreaking, it really is. Just what sort of society are we saving here.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued.

A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021.

It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line?

There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now.

If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption?

Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this.

We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths.

We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity.

I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection.

It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. "

It's perhaps not the most appropriate forum thread for all of those posts to be covered properly.

Most of this is disastrous. We still have to respect the conditions that we're under though, for those seeking to follow the gist of the thread creator, with my points of my response to it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

I can see why this is tempting for some business owners, but its not sensible really and is one day of defiance going to make a difference to them.

This comes on the same day that the landlord of my old local in West Yorkshire has decided he will not be reopening after this lockdown.

his tenancy is over at the pub and he says it is not worth trying to fight this anymore.

at the start of the first lockdown he was able to get rid of most of his stock without too much loss, this second one was so sudden he threw away hundreds of pounds in stock, and he is not willing to go through that again, he like many of us does not trust the government not to open everything up to bow to pressure for a few weeks and then close him down again at 24 hours notice !

as he says he is 62 and cant take the stress, but what he will do he does not know.

he is at an all time low after being in the trade 40 years.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules "
I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was meant to say ,

"I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021."

Not can't

Someone please add an edit post button

Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter "

Yes I expect there will be, social distancing and face coverings are here for a few years I think.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part "

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. "

Hear hear sunshine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Loads open in London today, even passed a boxing club down Battersea way last night that was open..wasn’t even trying to be discreet either..music blaring, both side doors open, someone getting put through their paces on the pads too.

God I miss the gym

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. "

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it."

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. "

And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads.

And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. "
A big difference everyone has a mask on and are not talking much

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads.

And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. A big difference everyone has a mask on and are not talking much"

There is very little evidence that masks help prevent the spread of the virus, in fact in the largest study done it was shown that they didn’t. And people walk around the supermarket breathing, that’s all that matters, talking has nothing to do with it...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads.

And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. "

"....And what about the supermarkets?..."

-----------------------------

A supermarket is 'essential', a betting shop is not, there is a big difference between one business and another, so you can't lump all businesses in the same box.

Also you mentioned a 99.8% survival rate. A survival rate is not the same as a 'recovery rate'.

1 out of every 10 that survive don't make a full recovery. Which means up to 10% still suffer long term health issues even though they escape death.

You also say: "We can’t keep everywhere shut forever"

Well nobody suggested that we shut everywhere forever. The lockdown is, and has always been temporary measure.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. "

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

"....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..."

---------------------------

All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another.

The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads.

And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere.

"....And what about the supermarkets?..."

-----------------------------

A supermarket is 'essential', a betting shop is not, there is a big difference between one business and another, so you can't lump all businesses in the same box.

Also you mentioned a 99.8% survival rate. A survival rate is not the same as a 'recovery rate'.

1 out of every 10 that survive don't make a full recovery. Which means up to 10% still suffer long term health issues even though they escape death.

You also say: "We can’t keep everywhere shut forever"

Well nobody suggested that we shut everywhere forever. The lockdown is, and has always been temporary measure."

And when do you think it will be alright to open then?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things "

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take. "

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

Think it's to late to fix things majorly. We should have locked down the borders.. properly locked everything down for a few months, then like Austrila we could be enjoying a pretty normal life.

Couldnt go to my brother's wedding last weekend but so pleased he is over there and was able to have a pretty much normal wedding. Not a mask in sight.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Think it's to late to fix things majorly. We should have locked down the borders.. properly locked everything down for a few months, then like Austrila we could be enjoying a pretty normal life.

Couldnt go to my brother's wedding last weekend but so pleased he is over there and was able to have a pretty much normal wedding. Not a mask in sight. "

We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law "

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"Think it's to late to fix things majorly. We should have locked down the borders.. properly locked everything down for a few months, then like Austrila we could be enjoying a pretty normal life.

Couldnt go to my brother's wedding last weekend but so pleased he is over there and was able to have a pretty much normal wedding. Not a mask in sight.

We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up."

"...We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up..."

-------------------------

Exactly this

Certain criteria / targets need to be met before we open up. Opening up just because we are 'fed up' is not a sensible option.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?"

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)"

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road. "

Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road. "

The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted.

The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met.

The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults'

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.

Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community."

Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted.

The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met.

The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults'"

It's a fallacious argument anyway.

If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else.

Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling.

You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things.

We rely on experts for our safety in everything.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.

Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community.

Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe."

Quite clearly you don't.

If you can point to where I've said that, I'd be grateful, because I don't think I have.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like adults that's worked well so far... make desicions on risk when people struggle to wash their hands and follow 'stay at home'.

Just look through the forum to see if you really think we should "treat people like adults and let them decide". Karen doesn't want to take the vaccine because she did her research on Facebook and thinks it's not tested and or has a microchip in. Dave thinks his 'o level' in maths somehow makes him an advance statistician and goes about quoting death rates as a rationale to go the gym. Kate thinks she is entitled to meet her friend for Costa in a different city. Clowns can't even get the basic concept of how vaccination works... and you want to say... hey you decide just act like adults.

I'm with this random guy on a sex site... who thinks the government aren't doing a good job!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"

The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted.

The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met.

The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults'

It's a fallacious argument anyway.

If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else.

Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling.

You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things.

We rely on experts for our safety in everything."

This

Indeed, we rely on experts with other everyday things, so we certainly need to rely on experts on such an important issue as a pandemic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted.

The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met.

The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults'

It's a fallacious argument anyway.

If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else.

Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling.

You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things.

We rely on experts for our safety in everything.

This

Indeed, we rely on experts with other everyday things, so we certainly need to rely on experts on such an important issue as a pandemic. "

When I was a kid we couldn't use the tap water for a few months (without hard boiling it for awhile first) due to a contamination scare.

I'm sure some people took their chances, but the only person they were endangering was themselves.

We just bloody got on with it...

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.

So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law

I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?

You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.

You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.

When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.

Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community.

Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe.

Quite clearly you don't.

If you can point to where I've said that, I'd be grateful, because I don't think I have."

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?"

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again."

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. "

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Like adults that's worked well so far... make desicions on risk when people struggle to wash their hands and follow 'stay at home'.

Just look through the forum to see if you really think we should "treat people like adults and let them decide". Karen doesn't want to take the vaccine because she did her research on Facebook and thinks it's not tested and or has a microchip in. Dave thinks his 'o level' in maths somehow makes him an advance statistician and goes about quoting death rates as a rationale to go the gym. Kate thinks she is entitled to meet her friend for Costa in a different city. Clowns can't even get the basic concept of how vaccination works... and you want to say... hey you decide just act like adults.

I'm with this random guy on a sex site... who thinks the government aren't doing a good job! "

Good for you. It’s nice to have an opinion isn’t it?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe."

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

"

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks "

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available."

I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available."
till it mutates and starts affecting younger people again. I've got 5 friends currently fighting covid in hospital.... all under 50..... one has been in intensive care now for 10 days..has lost his father and his mother is very sick with it too. (Was a christmas infection party)

I've had it.. still suffer the odd day where I'm so fatigued I can't function.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site. "

Yeh so will I, unfortunately I don’t get to choose but fortunately I’m still allowed an opinion, I think anyway? That’s not breaking the rules yet is it?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If I've stopped you talking or said you can't, then that's news to me.

I'm also allowed an opinion (although I defer to those who know significantly more than me, I wouldn't presume to know enough), which includes responding to the opinion you have.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site. "

What about some woman? Asking for a friend

Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.

Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.

Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.

He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.

So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Hadn't heard about this.

But just like I took note of those who were profiteering in the first lockdown, selling cleaning supplies a £30 a bottle, I'll also take note of those who open up against the rules and won't use their businesses again come the actual reopening.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take. "

But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."

Not: "The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."

Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"If I've stopped you talking or said you can't, then that's news to me.

I'm also allowed an opinion (although I defer to those who know significantly more than me, I wouldn't presume to know enough), which includes responding to the opinion you have."

Yes yes you said. We will open when the experts say it’s safe. Certain experts might agree with me that when the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, we can open. Fingers crossed anyway.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available."

"...Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4,..."

-------------------------------

And you think the effect of this pandemic is based only on the average age of people it kills ???

Such thinking explains why the government will make its decision after consulting with experts, rather than bowing down to people who 'want to be treated like adults'

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"What about some woman? Asking for a friend

"

Umm... Swing isn't sexist, honest

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"What about some woman? Asking for a friend

Umm... Swing isn't sexy, honest "

Don't put yourself down, silly

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"What about some woman? Asking for a friend

Umm... Swing isn't sexy, honest

Don't put yourself down, silly "

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."

Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."

Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?

"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site.

What about some woman? Asking for a friend

Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.

Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.

Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.

He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.

So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better."

This ^^^. You say it better than I could Mrs KC.

Dylan Thomas wrote "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Rage is what I feel about those who would just throw our loved ones out into that night.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. "

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."

Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."

Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. "

There was very public coverage of this being opened to anyone who wanted to put their name down, including names like Cominic Dummings.

If nothing else, I have questions about the validity of the data set if it's so clearly compromised.

As well as the huge public health backlash to the declaration. It's a fringe view.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?

You say we should make decisions as adults.

Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety.

When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do.

You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences.

So. Sure you can decide like an adult does.

You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again.

I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know.

Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides.

I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe.

I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it.

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

"...Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4,..."

-------------------------------

And you think the effect of this pandemic is based only on the average age of people it kills ???

Such thinking explains why the government will make its decision after consulting with experts, rather than bowing down to people who 'want to be treated like adults' "

Let’s hope they ask some of the experts that signed the great barrington declaration.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks

Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.

I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site.

What about some woman? Asking for a friend

Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.

Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.

Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.

He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.

So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better.

This ^^^. You say it better than I could Mrs KC.

Dylan Thomas wrote "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Rage is what I feel about those who would just throw our loved ones out into that night."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The Great Barrington Declaration reminds me of the Answers in Genesis petition of scientists who believe in evolution.

A science education charity responded with "Project Steve", including only scientists called "Steve" (and related names such as Stephen or Stephanie) who accept evolution. There are more Steves who accept evolution than any others who signed the AiG petition. Shrug.

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part

I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone.

Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses.

This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it.

But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases).

It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise.

Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives.

Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine?

... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives.

So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things

What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.

With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.

But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."

Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."

Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

There was very public coverage of this being opened to anyone who wanted to put their name down, including names like Cominic Dummings.

If nothing else, I have questions about the validity of the data set if it's so clearly compromised.

As well as the huge public health backlash to the declaration. It's a fringe view."

Hahahaha fringe view? Yeh course it is.

Don’t tell all this lot, verified medical & public health scientists signatures - there’s another 443 pages of them, check it out. Well worth a read.

We will continue to update this page with verified, approved, and vetted signatures as time allows.

Show entries

Title First Name Last Name Country Field or Department University or Institute

Prof. Abdellatif Elmor Egypt Public Health, Zagazig University

Dr. Abigail Langton United Kingdom Musculoskeletal & Dermatological Sciences University of Manchester

Dr. Adam Feyaerts Belgium Molecular Biology KU Leuven

Dr. Adam Curnock United Kingdom Biological research Immunocore Ltd

Dr. Adam Price United Kingdom Biology University of Aberdeen

Dr. Adam Brufsky United States UPMC Hillman Cancer Center University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine

Dr. Adina L. Feldman Sweden Epidemiology Karolinska Institutet

Dr. Aditi Apte India Platform for Research related to National Aims KEM Hospital Research Centre

Dr. Adolfo Lopez Noriega France Inorganic Chemistry and Drug Delivery MedinCell

Dr. Adrian Heald United Kingdom School of Medicine University of Manchester

Dr. Adriana Paiva Camargo Saraiva Brazil Physiology, epidemiology, nutrition and microbiology Universidade do Estado do Pará

Dr. Aivaras Cepelis Norway Epidemiology Observational & Pragmatic Research Institute

Prof. Ajit Singh India Department of Orthopaedic Banaras Hindu University

Dr. Akke Vellinga Ireland Epidemiology NUI Galway

Dr. Alan McMichael United Kingdom Medicine Queen's University Belfast

Dr. Alan Mazurek United States Neurology Mount Sinai School of Medicine

Dr. Alan Hutson United States Biostatistics Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center

Prof. Alastair Goldman United Kingdom Life Sciences University of Bradford

Dr. Alba Carola Finarelli Italy Interinstitutional Epidemiology Unit Local Health Authority of Reggio Emilia (Retired)

Prof. Alberto Esteves Gemal Brazil Anestesiologia Universidade Federal Fluminense

Prof. Alberto Gabizon Israel Oncology Hebrew University

Dr. Alejandro Llanos-Cuentas Peru Facultad de Salud Pública y Administración Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia

Dr. Alessandra Cervino France Genetics Luxia Scientific

Dr. Alessandro Vasconcelos Brazil Clinical oncology Uninove University

Dr. Alessandro Montedori Italy Direzione Salute e Ceosione Sociale Regione Umbria-Regional Health Authority of Umbria

Showing 1 to 25 of 443 entriesFirstPrevious123

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid"

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next."

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised."

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next."

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?"

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

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By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on."

Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did."

It’s a ‘big oil’ conspiracy apparently. Best leave it there luvvie

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted.

But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’"

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on.

Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?"

Have you ever heard of grasping at straws?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did."

I have. So I know how to research and am entitled to draw my own conclusions?

Ta muchly.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus."

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted.

But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?"

And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners

I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next."

What is a reliable source?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on.

Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?

Have you ever heard of grasping at straws?"

Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine."

Have fun obeying the law

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted.

But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?

And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners

I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry."

Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted.

But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?

And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners

I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.

Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me."

I hope for better. I wish it could have been better for your family.

All of this just blows my damn mind.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on.

Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?

Have you ever heard of grasping at straws?

Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat. "

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

Have fun obeying the law "

You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

Have fun obeying the law

You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion."

Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?

What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.

You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted.

But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?

And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners

I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.

Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me.

I hope for better. I wish it could have been better for your family.

All of this just blows my damn mind."

I sleep better having chatted to the aforementioned friends, former colleagues, band mates and other acquaintances. I've been warned to spend the rest of the pandemic period organising a substantial extension to his church, because it wouldn't hold all the people who would like to pay their respects. People have been lovely on the phone, I had a great chat with a 91yo lady who knew my Grandparents in childhood and who shared a lot of memories with me (and educated me on the history of Kendal Mint Cake and the reason people from Yorkshire settled in the Morecambe Bay area).

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others.

But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

And The Mirror (shudder):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210

I could go on.

Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?

Have you ever heard of grasping at straws?

Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat.

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?"

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

I sleep better having chatted to the aforementioned friends, former colleagues, band mates and other acquaintances. I've been warned to spend the rest of the pandemic period organising a substantial extension to his church, because it wouldn't hold all the people who would like to pay their respects. People have been lovely on the phone, I had a great chat with a 91yo lady who knew my Grandparents in childhood and who shared a lot of memories with me (and educated me on the history of Kendal Mint Cake and the reason people from Yorkshire settled in the Morecambe Bay area)."

Much love.

I stay home to prevent more suffering like yours.

And what a horrendous loss for his community as well. Utterly preventable.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

Have fun obeying the law

You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.

Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?

What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.

You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?"

There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

Have fun obeying the law

You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.

Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?

What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.

You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?

There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument. "

Umm... Wow.

Sad stories. Unpreventable torment and death.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile.

It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised.

The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’

Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things.

And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view.

I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus.

Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle.

You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine.

Have fun obeying the law

You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.

Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?

What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.

You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?

There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument.

Umm... Wow.

Sad stories. Unpreventable torment and death.

"

Yep

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”"

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did."

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply."

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. "

A very feeble response indeed, but expected. You keep grasping at your straws and hope you don't end up feeling like you're breathing through one at some point (ditto for your elders).

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. "

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have "

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?"

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"

Google the following, as I don't think I can post it here:

Expert reaction to Barrington Declaration, an open letter arguing against lockdown policies and for ‘Focused Protection’

Posted on the 6th of October by The Science Media Centre

(Googling time to find, 10 seconds. Doesn't even require research!)

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"

Do you mean these people who endorsed it

Dr Bana Rama

Harold shipman

Dr Jonny Fartpants

Prof Comminic Dummings

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. "

What if they catch it before they're vaccinated? Like my Grandad. He was taken to hospital on the very day he had his first appointment. Too late. Oh well. Old fella. No need to shed a tear, eh?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Do you mean these people who endorsed it

Dr Bana Rama

Harold shipman

Dr Jonny Fartpants

Prof Comminic Dummings

"

Check it out for yourself and make your own mind up, plenty of verified signatures on there. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. "

And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected?

Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Do you mean these people who endorsed it

Dr Bana Rama

Harold shipman

Dr Jonny Fartpants

Prof Comminic Dummings

Check it out for yourself and make your own mind up, plenty of verified signatures on there. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper.

"

What did you read to figure out how to interpret it?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/"

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."

How old are you? What do you win?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated.

And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected?

Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy?"

Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Yes, that's how science works *facepalm*

Dear scientists, win a Nobel prize, get a better web designer!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."

Shows how much you know about the world of science media.

about us

The Science Media Centre has its roots in the influential House of Lords Science and Technology Select Committee third report on Science and Society, which wanted to renew public trust in science. Established in 2002, it was originally based in the Royal Institution of Great Britain, until becoming a separate charity in its own right in April 2011. The Centre is now housed in the Wellcome Collection, and believes that scientists can have a huge impact on the way the media cover scientific issues, by engaging more quickly and more effectively with the stories that are influencing public debate and attitudes to science.

The SMC’s philosophy is:

“The media will DO science better when scientists DO the media better.”

OUR MISSION

To provide, for the benefit of the public and policymakers, accurate and evidence-based information about science and engineering through the media, particularly on controversial and headline news stories when most confusion and misinformation occurs.

OUR PRIORITIES

– Working with journalists and providing them with information about science and its related disciplines; making it easier for them to get access to the best science and scientists when science stories are making the headlines.

– Working with scientists, engineers and other experts, and supporting them to engage with the media; creating more opportunities for them to get their voices heard on the big science, health and environment stories of the day.

– Supporting press officers when they are working on complex science, health and environment stories.

– In addition, the SMC provides expert advice and evidence on issues relating to science in the media. The Centre often submits evidence to select committee inquiries on science communication in emergencies and public understanding of risk, and in 2011-12 gave both written and oral evidence to the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, ethics and practice of the press.

OUR INDEPENDENCE

The independence of the Science Media Centre is critical to the work we carry out. We do not have any specific agenda other than to promote the reporting of evidence-based science, and are completely independent in both our governance and funding.

ANNUAL REPORT

The Science Media Centre’s Annual Reports can be found on this page. You can view our profile on the Charity Commission’s website here.

GLOBAL NETWORK

The UK SMC has played a key role in the creation of other SMCs around the world. Each SMC works mainly with the national news media and scientists in their respective countries, but the communication and cooperation of the SMC network means that our reach is global when UK science hits the world news.

The Science Media Centre is an independent charity and company limited by guarantee.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated.

And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected?

Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy?

Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place "

If I've said that then please point to it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."

https://www.johnsnowmemo.com/#

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.

How old are you? What do you win? "

My age is visible and I won the Debunk competition. Keep up!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.

How old are you? What do you win? "

A trip to his local ICU might open his eyes. Lots of lovely sights to see there. Sounds like a splendid prize.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?

Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”

I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?)

I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply.

I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell.

Can you answer the question?

Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?

Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated.

And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected?

Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy?

Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place

If I've said that then please point to it."

When is safe then? Based on your point above?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

My faith in humanity dips lower every day

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.

How old are you? What do you win?

My age is visible and I won the Debunk competition. Keep up! "

Is it a competition? Here are some facts, there isn’t a single country in the world that is following the ‘great barrington declarations advice, why is that?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 
 

By *rman82Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.

This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next.

So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"?

What does research entail, exactly?

Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did.

Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have

Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?

Have a read

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.

Shows how much you know about the world of science media.

about us

The Science Media Centre has its roots in the influential House of Lords Science and Technology Select Committee third report on Science and Society, which wanted to renew public trust in science. Established in 2002, it was originally based in the Royal Institution of Great Britain, until becoming a separate charity in its own right in April 2011. The Centre is now housed in the Wellcome Collection, and believes that scientists can have a huge impact on the way the media cover scientific issues, by engaging more quickly and more effectively with the stories that are influencing public debate and attitudes to science.

The SMC’s philosophy is:

“The media will DO science better when scientists DO the media better.”

OUR MISSION

To provide, for the benefit of the public and policymakers, accurate and evidence-based information about science and engineering through the media, particularly on controversial and headline news stories when most confusion and misinformation occurs.

OUR PRIORITIES

– Working with journalists and providing them with information about science and its related disciplines; making it easier for them to get access to the best science and scientists when science stories are making the headlines.

– Working with scientists, engineers and other experts, and supporting them to engage with the media; creating more opportunities for them to get their voices heard on the big science, health and environment stories of the day.

– Supporting press officers when they are working on complex science, health and environment stories.

– In addition, the SMC provides expert advice and evidence on issues relating to science in the media. The Centre often submits evidence to select committee inquiries on science communication in emergencies and public understanding of risk, and in 2011-12 gave both written and oral evidence to the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, ethics and practice of the press.

OUR INDEPENDENCE

The independence of the Science Media Centre is critical to the work we carry out. We do not have any specific agenda other than to promote the reporting of evidence-based science, and are completely independent in both our governance and funding.

ANNUAL REPORT

The Science Media Centre’s Annual Reports can be found on this page. You can view our profile on the Charity Commission’s website here.

GLOBAL NETWORK

The UK SMC has played a key role in the creation of other SMCs around the world. Each SMC works mainly with the national news media and scientists in their respective countries, but the communication and cooperation of the SMC network means that our reach is global when UK science hits the world news.

The Science Media Centre is an independent charity and company limited by guarantee."

Hahaha ah right yeh!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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