FabSwingers.com forum: 100,000 Covid deaths in the UK since the pandemic began

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm getting very nervous about turning 64 this year

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm getting very nervous about turning 64 this year "

I doubt that your risk automatically increases by about 6 percentage points the day you turn 65.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"I'm getting very nervous about turning 64 this year "

You’ll be fine

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%"

Grim milestone

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Grim milestone "

Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up.

1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot.

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By *spotpleasurerMan
over a year ago

Norwich

The interesting fact to me is that I'd have expected newborn babies to have some risk as their immunity is low. However, the percentage of deaths stays the same for babies, children and adults up to 44.

I would not over analyse these statistics, without knowing how many positives in each age group have survived rather than just looking at deaths.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The interesting fact to me is that I'd have expected newborn babies to have some risk as their immunity is low. However, the percentage of deaths stays the same for babies, children and adults up to 44.

I would not over analyse these statistics, without knowing how many positives in each age group have survived rather than just looking at deaths."

I'd want to look at morbidity/ disability. My (suspected - testing wasn't good then) case, I was in a bad way for three months. I suspect babies would be more likely to bounce back faster than a 34 year old. (Obviously I am not representative of all 34 year olds, etc, just trying to say there's more to it than dying or not dying)

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable."

This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Very true.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Plus all the other fuck ups.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Plus all the other fuck ups."

Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Plus all the other fuck ups.

Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon."

Same. Hard same.

I'm flat out ignoring the government now.

Has the law changed? Do I need to do anything different?

Otherwise, it's plague outside and I'll see you once I'm vaccinated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Plus all the other fuck ups.

Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon."

Shhhh, you aren’t allowed to criticise the government . Anything negative is the NHS and the British people’s fault, anything positive is because of the government

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Plus all the other fuck ups.

Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon.

Shhhh, you aren’t allowed to criticise the government . Anything negative is the NHS and the British people’s fault, anything positive is because of the government "

Lolsob

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By *spotpleasurerMan
over a year ago

Norwich

In the beginning, I remember someone (Witty?) saying in the press conference that coming out of the pandemic with 10,000 deaths would be a good outcome and it was more likely to be 30,000. Reality has far exceeded his expectations!

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"In the beginning, I remember someone (Witty?) saying in the press conference that coming out of the pandemic with 10,000 deaths would be a good outcome and it was more likely to be 30,000. Reality has far exceeded his expectations!"

Jesus christ

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Grim milestone

Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up.

1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot."

Only affects old people though apparently

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Grim milestone

Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up.

1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot.

Only affects old people though apparently "

I want some of these deniers to have the balls to say it to the faces of those who've lost children

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By *ock-a-doodledooMan
over a year ago

Grimsby ish

And still men still feel the need to meet on here and more so on its sister site.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable."
yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance"

It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed.

At all points the nation has failed.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance

It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed.

At all points the nation has failed."

Yeah, but at least the UK is world beating at failing.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance

It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed.

At all points the nation has failed.

Yeah, but at least the UK is world beating at failing."

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

It’s hard to even comprehend so many people isn’t it

Plus the however many thousands dealing with the after effects of having covid....

Then those who have been somewhat “poorlier” due to the impact of covid...

It’s genuinely heart breaking

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

The first time around the excuse was that it was "unprecedented" and the government couldn't have known what was coming. This is false on two counts. One. Unprecedented means it hasn't happened before, but this is not the first pandemic ever. Two there are computer simulations which show what is coming. But hey. Let's buy that crap.

What's the excuse now?

Our government keeps looking for a new plan that works without realising that it is the execution of the plan, not the plan itself that's wrong.

We keep expecting people to do the "right thing" for the "greater good". How many new infections every day and how many deaths will it take for the government to realise people don't think that way any more. Because clearly they don't.

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

Unbelievable really, so sad. Who'd of thought at the beginning of all this so many people would lose their live's.

A few weeks ago I saw something on the tv which hit home. It was an ariel view of Live Aid, 70,000 people there. And now nearly 50% more. It's grim

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The first time around the excuse was that it was "unprecedented" and the government couldn't have known what was coming. This is false on two counts. One. Unprecedented means it hasn't happened before, but this is not the first pandemic ever. Two there are computer simulations which show what is coming. But hey. Let's buy that crap.

What's the excuse now?

Our government keeps looking for a new plan that works without realising that it is the execution of the plan, not the plan itself that's wrong.

The government also need to stop setting up people to fail.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance"

Did they have house parties in the care homes?

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%"

Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same.

Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh?

It's the only thing we're better at than queueing.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same.

Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh?

It's the only thing we're better at than queueing."

Some people, yes.

There are some doing way more than what's asked of them, and they get to a point where it's frustrating. I personally can do no more. I'm on self imposed house arrest (go to Tesco once a week, no I can't get a delivery slot). I can do no more. Why is it unreasonable to go "wtf you guys get it together", given I'm more than playing my part?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%"

And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

[Removed by poster at 26/01/21 16:01:27]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

You're not gonna find much positivity around here I'm afraid

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same.

Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh?

It's the only thing we're better at than queueing.

Some people, yes.

It isn't unreasonable - and I did indicate that it's not everyone's fault. However, given the nature of Covid 19, you don't need that many stupid, arrogant dickheads who think the rules don't apply to them, for their actions to become a real problem.

Sadly, we have more than enough of their kind in the UK - and some of them are in the Cabinet.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Sadly, we have more than enough of their kind in the UK - and some of them are in the Cabinet."

Agreed.

I'm doing my best. I'm doing more than my share and I wish it helped more than it does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you."

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol"

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people."

Diminishing deaths??? Im not diminishing anything I've just attended 2 funerals of family sdone no way am I doing that. Its horrific but so many people posting figures and statistics when in reality everyone is susceptible to it. We can all get it. Maybe you are right I will start a positive thread because its all too late now. We cannot right the wrongs we just have to look ahead to positive days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people."

Who said she diminished any deaths?

You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer.

However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people.

Who said she diminished any deaths?

You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer.

However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much

On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.

We all want to come out of this thing, and most believe we will, but some things are worth taking the time to mark with the sadness and outrage they deserve. As mentioned, go start a positivity thread if you feel like there should be a space for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people.

Who said she diminished any deaths?

You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer.

However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much

On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.

Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it.

Losing family members is definitely not making light of anything. Its a very serious thing and nothing to take lightly but these figures are on everyday all different and as I have said EVERYONE IS AT RISK. OLD. YOUNG. SICK. HEALTHY. EVERYONE so should never be taken lightly. But we need some positivity to get through this. If we don't have it who will

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people.

Who said she diminished any deaths?

You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer.

However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much

On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.

Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it.

I think the thread is just pointing out the grimness of the situation.

Hopefully the vaccine effect will start to kick in and those horrific figures will come down but there is no point pretending it isnt bad.

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By *reyyaMan
over a year ago

North Yorkshire

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !! "

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you.

Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread.

Oh no

There isn't one lol

You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people.

Who said she diminished any deaths?

You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer.

However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much

On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.

Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it.

Must have been the "lol"... laughing out loud doesn't generally shout sombre reflection to me. But in any event, this is a thread about a particularly significant and damning statistic. It's not the place to complain about a lack of positivity, just like it's not the place to squabble.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Two things ;

1) the virus doesn't move itself, it doesn't Don its training shoes and move itself around. The virus didn't move itself to 1/4million new infections in the last week. That's all on us.

2) the survivors are hardly ever mentioned. There are two types, those who have had it and seem to have recovered. And those who have had it and continue to suffer with complications. Focusing on deaths with covid only doesn't give the whole story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the 28th March 2020:

LONDON (Reuters) - The United Kingdom will have done well if it comes through the coronavirus crisis with fewer than 20,000 deaths, Stephen Powis, the national medical director of the National Health Service.

I don't think that he was making a prediction that we might have 20,000 deaths to be honest, he was trying to emphasise how serious the situation was/is.

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By *ornucopiaMan
over a year ago

Bexley

I'm 75 and I don't even think about my risk of death from covid, any more than I think of the risk of dying every time I start the car.

Might be more inclined to if I knew I had to use a 'Smart Motorway'!

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By *iercedyvonneTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Wow, lots of people need to go back to school.

So, some facts,

(In England and Wales)

only TWO people under the age of 1 have died where covid was mentioned in the death certificate

Only 26 people under the age of 20 have died, same conditions.

These people may all have had other conditions which they would have died from anyway. Nobody knows.

The average age of those dying was the same as the average age of people dying not from covid.

Death isn't the reason for lockdown, overwhelming the NHS is the reason.

The economic, social and mental issues caused by lockdown outweigh deaths by a massive margin. Just look at excess deaths from lack of cancer treatment. There have been 31 million fewer GP appointments because of covid - that will translate into a huge number of unnecessary deaths which could have been prevented. Most of those who have died would have died anyway.

We should be relaxing lockdown now but even the government(s) don't understand basic statistics.

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By *reyyaMan
over a year ago

North Yorkshire

"Two things ;

1) the virus doesn't move itself, it doesn't Don its training shoes and move itself around. The virus didn't move itself to 1/4million new infections in the last week. That's all on us.

I understand what you are saying. The virus, though, does take

time out now and again for example the virus had a break of 24 hours on Christmas Day. It also looks like the virus has booked it's summer holidays commencing 17 July 2021.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

On the 28th March 2020:

I don't think that he was making a prediction that we might have 20,000 deaths to be honest, he was trying to emphasise how serious the situation was/is."

In fairness I'm not sure that a year ago there were many people who had the knowledge or vision to think they'd have to keep making up restrictions to tell grown adults to stop spreading a highly infections and at times deadly virus. Or that we're able to predict the variants that become yet more infectious.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Wow, lots of people need to go back to school.

So, some facts,

(In England and Wales)

only TWO people under the age of 1 have died where covid was mentioned in the death certificate

Only 26 people under the age of 20 have died, same conditions.

These people may all have had other conditions which they would have died from anyway. Nobody knows.

The average age of those dying was the same as the average age of people dying not from covid.

Death isn't the reason for lockdown, overwhelming the NHS is the reason.

We should be relaxing lockdown now but even the government(s) don't understand basic statistics."

Would love to get the sources for any of your claims about covid deaths being outweighed by economic, social, and mental issues, including these excess cancer deaths. I mean, since the government doesn't understand basic statistics maybe you could provide a report with your evidence to set them straight.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Wow, lots of people need to go back to school.

So, some facts,

(In England and Wales)

only TWO people under the age of 1 have died where covid was mentioned in the death certificate

Only 26 people under the age of 20 have died, same conditions.

These people may all have had other conditions which they would have died from anyway. Nobody knows.

The average age of those dying was the same as the average age of people dying not from covid.

Death isn't the reason for lockdown, overwhelming the NHS is the reason.

We should be relaxing lockdown now but even the government(s) don't understand basic statistics.

Presumably because a lot if the workforce is still working?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The government have had a totally undeserved free ride, using every known trick in the book, to excuse themselves from doing the 1 thing that is their key priority, to protect us. And some of us enable them and the sheer horrors of what they have been doing - usually not doing. Crimes against humanity that ought to be legally tried ss such.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"The government have had a totally undeserved free ride, using every known trick in the book, to excuse themselves from doing the 1 thing that is their key priority, to protect us. And some of us enable them and the sheer horrors of what they have been doing - usually not doing. Crimes against humanity that ought to be legally tried ss such. "

This.

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?"

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

Why was international travel still open in April?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

We took a year or so to restrict travel. We didn't even take precautions when Italy locked down.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

New Zealand closed its borders on the 19th of March, Australia on the 20th.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

They have ignored scientific advice on at least 3 separate occasions.

They threatened schools with legal action after being advised they were not safe.

They shipped people from hospitals into care homes.

They refused to take it seriously at the beginning(we will take it on the chin)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Operation Last Gasp.

Haha so funny.

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

Sorry....I'm not saying the number of deaths is comparable..or a comparison to who goes to NZ as opposed to the UK

We have proven to be behind and chasing our tails in every aspect of this pandemic.

Early Lock down- nope continue to travel and allow things to carry on. Cheltenham and footy etc etc

Usage of masks - no aren't any good and not required. Full circle turn on that.

Restrict travel- slow and ineffective.

Boris has stated he takes full responsibility and so he should. He should be fooking jailed for his gross incompetence as a nations leader.

If a death occurs in a workplace and its proven that an employer was negligent or complacent in that death they would end up in court being prosecuted by the HSE.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Sorry....I'm not saying the number of deaths is comparable..or a comparison to who goes to NZ as opposed to the UK

We have proven to be behind and chasing our tails in every aspect of this pandemic.

Early Lock down- nope continue to travel and allow things to carry on. Cheltenham and footy etc etc

Usage of masks - no aren't any good and not required. Full circle turn on that.

Restrict travel- slow and ineffective.

Boris has stated he takes full responsibility and so he should. He should be fooking jailed for his gross incompetence as a nations leader.

If a death occurs in a workplace and its proven that an employer was negligent or complacent in that death they would end up in court being prosecuted by the HSE."

Absolutely agree

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same.

Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh?

It's the only thing we're better at than queueing."

Here's the thing. People are people and will do what human nature dictates.

A government that sets out a strategy based on human nature being other than what it is, is doomed to fail from the outset.

So why embark on it?

The answer is before us. When all their strategies fall they will turn around and blame humans for being what they are, rather than taking a realistic approach.

Already on this forum we are blaming each other and saying that the government did all they could, where in reality they probably couldn't have done much worse.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Neil Ferguson says an earlier lockdown would have saved lives.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same.

Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh?

It's the only thing we're better at than queueing.

Here's the thing. People are people and will do what human nature dictates.

A government that sets out a strategy based on human nature being other than what it is, is doomed to fail from the outset.

So why embark on it?

The answer is before us. When all their strategies fall they will turn around and blame humans for being what they are, rather than taking a realistic approach.

Already on this forum we are blaming each other and saying that the government did all they could, where in reality they probably couldn't have done much worse."

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.

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By *ldaCouple
over a year ago

sutton Coldfield

For perspective, there were 530,841 deaths in 2019

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"?

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By *inkerbell67Woman
over a year ago

Clacton on sea essex

My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out ..

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By *armandwet50Couple
over a year ago

Far far away

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%"

The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?

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By *armandwet50Couple
over a year ago

Far far away

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out .."

Presuming what you have said is true, what does this mean?

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By *ldaCouple
over a year ago

sutton Coldfield

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

Probably not many. The virus was endemic then. The relatively few international travelers are not going to make much difference. NZ was different, they didn’t have it when they shut down

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

No, but foresight is .

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

So how much hindsight did Australia and New Zealand have last March, and why did the UK not have the information to know that keeping disease out would... keep disease out?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Agree 100 % with that. I can remember at the time even in Feb when everyone was fucking off skiing to Italy and Switzerland and thinking.... What on earth is going on? Yes some of the decisions or lack of them and enforcement of them has been truly awful. And you didn't need to be any scientist to work some of them out. We are a long from out of this yet.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out .."

Yep my nephew has it badly in hospital. His wife and kids are negative.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

By age

85+ = 41.9%

75 - 84 = 32.6%

65 - 74 = 15.2%

45 - 64 = 9.3%

15 - 44 = 1%

1 - 14 = 1%

Under 1 =1%

The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?"
.

If you believe they are wrong then post what you think are the accurate ones.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

It's not hindsight, it was being said on here and in the general populace but funny enough not thought sensible to stop travellers from countries with higher cases than we had at the time from getting on a plane untested to travel here free from any restrictions..

Got fuck all to do with hindsight, but plenty to do with gross negligence..

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?"

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

I think we agree more than we disagree - things need to change. We just have different angles on it.

I think we want the same thing - an end to this with minimal (additional) suffering.

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "

I think that part of the world remembered SARS better and reacted accordingly.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "

Operation Cygnus..

Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..

Hence not enough PPE etc at the start..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)"

If it's still grim why minimise it with the "with" canard?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

If it's still grim why minimise it with the "with" canard? "

Not minimising (hence the additional comment in brackets), but there is a clear and important distinction and the ONS themselves always clearly state WITH.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

A really simple thing to understand, If I am told my tyres are dodgy and my brakes need attention and I lose control and plow into an elderly couple it's not their fault..

Nor does it matter that they may have underlying health issues..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"A really simple thing to understand, If I am told my tyres are dodgy and my brakes need attention and I lose control and plow into an elderly couple it's not their fault..

Nor does it matter that they may have underlying health issues.."

The ONS have said that the death certificate records show that Covid is the cause in the overwhelming majority of cases, including post 28 day deaths.

And investigation shows that underlying conditions seems to include bloody anything, like anxiety or autism.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)"

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "

But they did plan it?

Operation..I cant remember what It was called.cygnot .didnt they do a dry run and find out we were short of supplies etc

I agree.. you cant plan fully but we had every advantage in the world..and we blew it

Remember nick Hancock standing up in parliament and saying we were fully prepared?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid"

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?"

No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid"

Agreed

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....

Operation Cygnus..

Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..

Hence not enough PPE etc at the start.."

You seem to know more about this than I and I defer. So a question. Was it not the case that there were lots of supplies (not enough but lots) that were squirelled away somewhere for such an emergency but due to a complete failure to check use by dates and rotate stock they had to be scrapped? Or was that just a fb rumour?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....

Operation Cygnus..

Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..

Hence not enough PPE etc at the start..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-did-it-find

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid"

So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense.

I agree it's highly probable that the vast majority of the 104000 did die FROM covid, but its factually wrong to say they all did.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid

So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense.

I agree it's highly probable that the vast majority of the 104000 did die FROM covid, but its factually wrong to say they all did."

Someone might have died of a heart attack while trying to flee the WTC. With terrorist attack not of terrorist attack.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?

Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.

The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?

I don't know why we given two alternatives. Totalitarianism or widespread death. Is there nothing in between? But just presuming there is no in between.... which is preferable.... Totalitarianism for the duration of a pandemic or the death of thousands of your people?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

Ok here's a question.

A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies.

Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19.

What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Protecting public health often involves incursion on civil liberties. Under any other circumstances I'd find it unacceptable (or, maybe there are other times where it's acceptable, but not many).

A totalitarian state does it without explaining why, doesn't give it back.

A democratic society might still do it, but it'll be clear why, and it'll be explicitly limited time for a crisis.

For all the faults of the British government, and they are innumerable, their curtailment on our liberties has been time limited and for a clear purpose.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid.

104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)

2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack.

This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid

So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense.

Yes it was utter nonsense to get to that from my post or to assume that is how they would measure a death from a car crash

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok here's a question.

A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies.

Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19.

What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?"

Well obviously they have died of covid because covid causes pneumonia.

When my friend was in hospital a few weeks ago she was diagnosed with Covid pneumonia.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?

Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.

The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?

Absolutely, I know what I would have preferred, then people I loved may still be alive. Having said that after nearly a year of lockdown for some who choose to and no lockdown for those who choose not to... Im not sure how happy our care home residents are (I'm referring to my mum who for a year was basically imprisoned in a room and for the first time in her life told me in tears "I'm so unhappy") someone who'd lived through war and rationing post war.

But where it sounds like we differ is you seem to be giving all the blame to the govt and none to the public, whereas I believe however shit the govt are... I can take responsibility for my own actions and choose not to risk passing the infection to someone else.... And as such the public who have been told 20 times a day for 10 months to stay home and stop spreading, are as responsible.

Looking forward the only way out is to get the public onside and get them to moderate their behaviours. How that's achieved.... Magic wand needed I fear.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I find it baffling that in the middle of a crisis with a brand new pathogen, we demand absolute precision and consistency in record keeping, and if we don't have it then we can dismiss some or all of the suffering that's happened.

Some of the bodies from 9/11 were never recovered. We aren't 100% sure how they all died. We don't suggest they didn't die as the result of a terrorist attack. Why not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok here's a question.

A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies.

Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19.

What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?"

The death certificate would record that information - which I believe could record both as factors.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I find it baffling that in the middle of a crisis with a brand new pathogen, we demand absolute precision and consistency in record keeping, and if we don't have it then we can dismiss some or all of the suffering that's happened.

Some of the bodies from 9/11 were never recovered. We aren't 100% sure how they all died. We don't suggest they didn't die as the result of a terrorist attack. Why not?"

Just ask why would a gmnt artificially inflate the death figures,making itself look even more incompetent and see if you get an answer.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouble CCouple
over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable.

Exactly This

Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!

Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?

New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.

Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.

Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.

They also listened to their medical experts very early on.

So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.

Simple as that really.

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?

Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.

The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?

Looking forward the only way out is to get the public onside and get them to moderate their behaviours. How that's achieved.... Magic wand needed I fear. "

I think we basically agree that people should have behaved differently to the way they did.

In my opion people should have been given the opportunity to do the right thing and if they didn't they should have been made to behave.

Yes I believe in freedom. But does this mean I don't have to pay taxes if I don't feel like it? The day I miss a tax payment HMRC will kick my ass all the way into the stone age with no mercy. So why is it our government is "soft" on spread of a virus, but ruthless cruel and vindictive when it comes to filling their coffers?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Some of the bodies from 9/11 were never recovered. We aren't 100% sure how they all died. We don't suggest they didn't die as the result of a terrorist attack. Why not?

Just ask why would a gmnt artificially inflate the death figures,making itself look even more incompetent and see if you get an answer. "

The only reasons I can think of involve conspiracy theories.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

No its not. That's just silly.

Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?

Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.

Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.

Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.

Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing

If only they planned for such an event?

With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....

Operation Cygnus..

Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..

Hence not enough PPE etc at the start..

Some items we had lots of, some were in date and some we had far less than we were meant to have..

To be fair whether we had enough even with full in date stocks is another question which we will only know later as it has been as we all know a massive event..

Fact is the recommendations from the three day exercise involving over 900 experts, planners, cobra meetings etc were not implemented and that is a core failing..