FabSwingers.com forum: So what can we say to these people?

By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

You do realise it's not compulsory. Whether you or anyone else for that matter likes it or not it's a person's individual choice.

The End.

(Waits for the name calling to begin)

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with."

In what way ?

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ? "

Was my question.

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By *urvy ClarissaWoman
over a year ago

wigan

I will most certainly have the vaccine when it’s offered but people are entitled to their own decision as stupid as it may seem to others. Someone having the vaccine doesn’t stop them transmitting it to others anyway. It’s just a case of risk the vaccine and maybe experiencing side effects or risk getting covid and ending up with severe symptoms and hospitalisation.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question."

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

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By *hantelle-La-SlutTV/TS
over a year ago

South Birmingham

you can not force people to have it end of really.

don't see why you say it need to be dealt with???

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

"You do realise it's not compulsory. Whether you or anyone else for that matter likes it or not it's a person's individual choice.

The End.

(Waits for the name calling to begin) "

That's all there is to it right now.

Do we accept that some people don't feel comfortable using a rushed thru vaccine or do we allow the law to ride roughshod over individual rights and allow for contracts of employment to be amended retrospectively?

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ? "

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland

I think first of all you need to realise that even though these staff were to have the vaccine they could still be carriers and spreaders same as everyone else. The vaccine does not stop a person getting the virus. So aslong as they are following infection control procedures they are no more of a risk than they were before the vaccine was available.

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

Okay, how would you deal with them?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

[Removed by poster at 23/01/21 18:11:25]

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"I think first of all you need to realise that even though these staff were to have the vaccine they could still be carriers and spreaders same as everyone else. The vaccine does not stop a person getting the virus. So aslong as they are following infection control procedures they are no more of a risk than they were before the vaccine was available."

But much less likely to spread and incubated virus with a heavier viral load.

And if they had followed hygiene rules before being face to face with residents then much less of a chance.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment."

I’m sure that will be in all new employee contracts, but how do you deal with it now. Can it be retrospective, only the law can answer that

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment."

That could be seen as discrimination.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back "

Nope. I asked 'So what can we say to these people?'

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

I’m sure that will be in all new employee contracts, but how do you deal with it now. Can it be retrospective, only the law can answer that "

I am sure there are ways to alter employment contracts. I don't know the details. But that's what I'd do.

Bodily autonomy, fine, but you can choose not to work with the vulnerable or in healthcare in any capacity.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back

Nope. I asked 'So what can we say to these people?'"

Your original OP yes. However the top of this conversation you said ‘Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with’, hence my question to you ‘in what way’

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination. "

I do not think that such an argument would stand up legally.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment."

So you want to sack any doctor or nurse who doesn't want the virus?

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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth

If you refuse the vaccine.

You forfeit the right to complain about lockdowns and restrictions. They are the only way out of this.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

So you want to sack any doctor or nurse who doesn't want the vaccine?"

Fixed it for you

Yes. Gtfo.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Duty of care springs to mind, the homes have a balance to strike between the possible implications to residents and the rights of staff..

If it's done properly with respect etc it's doable..

No need for any 'name calling' at all really..

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

I’m sure that will be in all new employee contracts, but how do you deal with it now. Can it be retrospective, only the law can answer that

I am sure there are ways to alter employment contracts. I don't know the details. But that's what I'd do.

Bodily autonomy, fine, but you can choose not to work with the vulnerable or in healthcare in any capacity."

That is where the law is likely to come in.

At the moment if those that choose not to have the vaccination for whatever reason walk out of their jobs or are sacked, who is going to replace them.

What is needed is education to help them see the benefits and get the media nonsense out of their heads. Even after that, it is still an individual’s choice.

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By *hantelle-La-SlutTV/TS
over a year ago

South Birmingham

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

I’m sure that will be in all new employee contracts, but how do you deal with it now. Can it be retrospective, only the law can answer that

I am sure there are ways to alter employment contracts. I don't know the details. But that's what I'd do.

Bodily autonomy, fine, but you can choose not to work with the vulnerable or in healthcare in any capacity."

you can not just alter some employment contract. the person would have to agree to it and sign it. hence why its a contract. if you do not agree to it do not sign the new one, and they can not get rid of you either that would be unlawful dismissal.

it is not compulsory you do not have to take it if you do no wish.

There is such a thing called civil rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need to bring back the death penalty for those who refuse the vaccine, for the greater good in our new normal

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back

Nope. I asked 'So what can we say to these people?'

Your original OP yes. However the top of this conversation you said ‘Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with’, hence my question to you ‘in what way’ "

I was answering another poster. Suggesting it shouldn't be. Now please take clearly that I am not suggesting compulsory anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do realise it's not compulsory. Whether you or anyone else for that matter likes it or not it's a person's individual choice.

The End.

(Waits for the name calling to begin) "

you are correct however job contracts can be change as many care home companys are already doing for new staff and looking into how they can change existing ones no one can force anyone however the jobs conditions can and they will at a;ot of firms....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

I’m sure that will be in all new employee contracts, but how do you deal with it now. Can it be retrospective, only the law can answer that

I am sure there are ways to alter employment contracts. I don't know the details. But that's what I'd do.

Bodily autonomy, fine, but you can choose not to work with the vulnerable or in healthcare in any capacity.

it is not compulsory you do not have to take it if you do no wish.

There is such a thing called civil rights. "

An employer can force a new contract on an employee.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back

Nope. I asked 'So what can we say to these people?'

Your original OP yes. However the top of this conversation you said ‘Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with’, hence my question to you ‘in what way’

I was answering another poster. Suggesting it shouldn't be. Now please take clearly that I am not suggesting compulsory anything.

You might be but still haven’t answered the question, which I don’t think you will. So I’ll leave it there

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"You do realise it's not compulsory. Whether you or anyone else for that matter likes it or not it's a person's individual choice.

The End.

(Waits for the name calling to begin)

That’s the important point at the moment, you change contract for any new employee coming into your business, however it takes more time and needs to fit into the law to alter an existing contract

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

Blame each other, that's what this Government want you to do. You can still spread this virus if you've had the vaccine. The NHS is always overwhelmed in Winter. The goal posts to freedom will keep moving.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

My elderly father has had one or two of his care assistance rota turning up unmasked, being asked to wear a mask, and then saying that they either could not or would not wear a mask.

We phoned the care agency and told them that these carers would not be allowed to enter his home again.

Similarly, if I find that any of his carers have been offered vaccination and turned it down, I will request that they are removed from his rota. This is not in any way saying that vaccination should be mandatory, it is merely concern for the safety of my father, and consumer choice in action. The care workers have every right to decline vaccination; however my father has every right to be protected to the maximum of my ability.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with.

In what way ?

Was my question.

I know but you are saying it needs dealing with, even though not compulsory, so I was asking you what would you suggest ?

If I had that answer I wouldn't have posed the question.

But you must have an opinion on it, if saying it must be dealt with even if it’s not compulsory.

To me that sounds like you wish to make it compulsory, that’s why I asked it back

Nope. I asked 'So what can we say to these people?'

Your original OP yes. However the top of this conversation you said ‘Compulsory or not - it still needs dealing with’, hence my question to you ‘in what way’

I was answering another poster. Suggesting it shouldn't be. Now please take clearly that I am not suggesting compulsory anything.

You might be but still haven’t answered the question, which I don’t think you will. So I’ll leave it there "

But I have told you clearly I don't have an answer which is why I posed the question to elucidate what other people might think is the answer. So you are right I won't give an answer because that was my question. 'What is the Answer'?

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy

"Blame each other, that's what this Government want you to do. You can still spread this virus if you've had the vaccine. The NHS is always overwhelmed in Winter. The goal posts to freedom will keep moving."

Exactly. Only, the masses have given up their freedoms so easily, they’ll never get them back now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

we have 16 jobs available across 5 care homes we had last week over 270 applicants where normally we would struggle to fill the positions i dont think over the next year or two we will have any problems employing ...

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The government are incompetent buffoons who carry 95% of the responsibility for this mess and do little more than lie.

Vaccination may reduce transmission. Not being vaccinated against a disease which has caused such havoc (without *medical* excuse) is selfish, and is below the standards I accept for those who take care of our most vulnerable.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality "

Let's hope they are suitable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My elderly father has had one or two of his care assistance rota turning up unmasked, being asked to wear a mask, and then saying that they either could not or would not wear a mask.

We phoned the care agency and told them that these carers would not be allowed to enter his home again.

we are finding this too families of resident saying they dont want any of those who have not had the vaccine near there family ...we've akso had staff who has had the vaccine refuse to work with those who haven't....

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By *hantelle-La-SlutTV/TS
over a year ago

South Birmingham

An employer can force a new contract on an employee. "

Not you can not force a new contract if your terms and condition changes unless both parties agree.

https://www.acas.org.uk/changing-an-employment-contract/when-changes-are-not-agreed.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Duty of care springs to mind, the homes have a balance to strike between the possible implications to residents and the rights of staff..

If it's done properly with respect etc it's doable..

No need for any 'name calling' at all really..

What happens if the residents insist their carers have had the jab? What happens if one of them catches and dies from something preventable?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

An employer can force a new contract on an employee.

Not you can not force a new contract if your terms and condition changes unless both parties agree.

https://www.acas.org.uk/changing-an-employment-contract/when-changes-are-not-agreed.

From the very site you link,

"If there's no flexibility clause and changes cannot be agreed, the employer might still be able to make a change."

Dismiss and rehire is also possible - but with risks - as noted on that same website.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"My elderly father has had one or two of his care assistance rota turning up unmasked, being asked to wear a mask, and then saying that they either could not or would not wear a mask.

We phoned the care agency and told them that these carers would not be allowed to enter his home again.

Well I will be brave enough to suggest. That maybe there is part of the answer to employ people in a face-to-face role with those who are prepared to be vaccinated. Let the rest go.

Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

After all try getting into many countries without a yellow fever or malaria jab. And currently on flight with a negative test.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

Let's hope they are suitable "

we've always found training new people a better way as those carers that jump from home to home are never happy and alway moaning or lazy unless they have moved into the area thats different.

our training is top notch too we dont chuck them under the bus like so do ...

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By *iss DevilWoman
over a year ago

Bedford

I do understand the vaccine is not compulsory and nobody can force anyone to have it. However, I am rather taken aback that people who are supposed to be dedicated to caring for others choose to refuse the vaccine.

We had our first chance to book appointments for the vaccine last week, and I did, as well as my colleague who I work in the bubble with. However, the very next day, she told me she decided to opt out as she would like to have a baby this year and the vaccine is not recommended for women trying to get pregnant. On one hand, I do understand her motivation but on the other hand, I wanted to scream at her and remind her that she chose to be a carer, to look after vulnerable people, and that, in the middle of the worldwide pandemic a baby could wait. Also, wanted to ask her what would happen if she gets Covid while pregnant.

I think some people don't realize how selfish they are.

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By *ickthelick2001Man
over a year ago

nottingham

"I do understand the vaccine is not compulsory and nobody can force anyone to have it. However, I am rather taken aback that people who are supposed to be dedicated to caring for others choose to refuse the vaccine.

I think some people don't realize how selfish they are. "

And are you being selfish ? expecting her to give up her rights for you ?

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

I have a feeling it will be compulsory eventually (obviously not for those that can’t have it for specific reasons).

It’ll be part of HR checks working in health care just like loads of other vaccines are.

Or it’ll be heavily pushed for like the flu jab when working in health care.

Not saying I disagree or agree... just opinion

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By *ickthelick2001Man
over a year ago

nottingham

WE, who is WE ?

the fact of the matter is, that is their choice and certainly not anyone else's. and as such should be respected.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

Let's hope they are suitable

we've always found training new people a better way as those carers that jump from home to home are never happy and alway moaning or lazy unless they have moved into the area thats different.

our training is top notch too we dont chuck them under the bus like so do ..."

The training package can be but, there are other concerns in nursing homes not just care staff and, nurses having the vaccine.

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By *iss DevilWoman
over a year ago

Bedford

I think some people don't realize how selfish they are.

And are you being selfish ? expecting her to give up her rights for you ?"

If trying to protect myself and our service users (as well as members of the public I might meet on my travels to/from work on a public bus) from a virus that has a potential of being deadly than YES, I AM SELFISH and don't mind being called that. Hence the shouting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think some people don't realize how selfish they are.

And are you being selfish ? expecting her to give up her rights for you ?"

hoes she giving up her rights ?? she still has the choice no one can take that away from her ..but her job well thats different

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think the last thing it is, is selfish. We - the herd - protect ourselves, protect the NHS, potentially (research pending) protect others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

“having the vaccine doesn’t stop people from transmitting the vaccine”

this right here is where alot of the problem stems from i think

the government have publicised this for 2 reasons which i understand :

1. the original studies didn’t have time to assess this yet so they don’t want to give guarantees that they can’t actually guarantee

2. to stop people thinking they can go back to normal as soon as they get their vaccine - we need herd immunity from many many more people having the vaccine before that is achievable ... if we go too early we still put people at risk and it would also have the potential to create a black market for vaccines with everyone wanting theirs now for their freedom

however by throwing out the statement without fuller explanation they have led people to believe that the only person impacted by their refusal to get the vaccine is themselves which is just not true ... to beat the virus we need as many people as possible to be vaccinated ao the occurrences of the virus reduce over time to the point it dies out by not being able to pass to people without antibodies

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

Love all the social media scientists answers as usual.

There is no proof either way as to whether the vaccine inhibits the host from spreading the virus to others.

Its still being researched.

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

I think vulnerable people have the right to be protected in every way possible. If you are putting yourself in a position of being up close and personal with vulnerable people then part of that responsibility is to protect them and being vaccinated is part of that. However, it is your personal choice whether you are vaccinated so maybe it’s more about the NHS or private care companies saying that it is a requirement as part of the job.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"“having the vaccine doesn’t stop people from transmitting the vaccine”

this right here is where alot of the problem stems from i think

the government have publicised this for 2 reasons which i understand :

1. the original studies didn’t have time to assess this yet so they don’t want to give guarantees that they can’t actually guarantee

Yes. The scientists I've been listening to have said repeatedly "the vaccine may stop or slow transmission, but the research hasn't been done yet, so we have to assume it doesn't for now"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

If its proven to inhibit the spread then as a carer you would surely have to ask yourself should I be looking after the most vulnerable or am I just here as its a job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination. "

its not, this type of thing is standard already in some industries

but spurs chick is right that only deals forward where people can choose to start a job or not ... retrospectively changing contracts like this will be one for the courts because its effectively constructive dismissal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My elderly father has had one or two of his care assistance rota turning up unmasked, being asked to wear a mask, and then saying that they either could not or would not wear a mask.

We phoned the care agency and told them that these carers would not be allowed to enter his home again.

What did they say about the carers who turned up not wearing masks?

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"If its proven to inhibit the spread then as a carer you would surely have to ask yourself should I be looking after the most vulnerable or am I just here as its a job.

Agreed!

My comment about it being expected and compulsory eventually is based on that fact

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

All we can do is share the facts, benefits etc and give people informed choice. The problem is there is too much bunkum and BS online which clouds judgement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

Let's hope they are suitable

we've always found training new people a better way as those carers that jump from home to home are never happy and alway moaning or lazy unless they have moved into the area thats different.

our training is top notch too we dont chuck them under the bus like so do ...

The training package can be but, there are other concerns in nursing homes not just care staff and, nurses having the vaccine."

well thats quite obvious

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"If its proven to inhibit the spread then as a carer you would surely have to ask yourself should I be looking after the most vulnerable or am I just here as its a job.

That will come into play when that fact is proved or not. Until then it’s personal choice

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Selfish?...of course she is as she doesn't want to get ill and die.

Richard Dawkins wrote about the selfish gene and how teamwork is ultimately selfish.

We also need to remember that all this anti-vac rubbish, is probably based on the rushed Gulf War vaccine, which had its own problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It will be compulsory in all sorts of proffessions. No doubt the care industry too. There are lots of jobs where certain vaccinations are mandatory already... people seem to forget that.

Once most the public have it and it becomes normalised... the clowns will catch up eventually.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

Let's hope they are suitable

we've always found training new people a better way as those carers that jump from home to home are never happy and alway moaning or lazy unless they have moved into the area thats different.

our training is top notch too we dont chuck them under the bus like so do ...

The training package can be but, there are other concerns in nursing homes not just care staff and, nurses having the vaccine.

well thats quite obvious "

No need to be rude. It's not obvious, quality of care cannot be judged by the uptake in vaccinations of the staff or a company's training package.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

We don't know that yet.

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland

I find it quite staggering that after all the widely reported sacrifices that care staff have made throughout this pandemic that they are now coming under criticism like this with their continued employment being brought under scrutiny.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

And it would need a change in Law. That is not to say that there wouldn't be a change in Law proposed in the future.

"In England and Wales, the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 gives the government powers to prevent, control, or safeguard against the incidence or spread of infection or contamination. However, the legislation specifically provides that a person must not be required “to undergo medical treatment,” where ‘“medical treatment’ includes vaccination and other prophylactic treatment.” The Coronavirus Act 2020 extends this prohibition to Scotland and Northern Ireland. Accordingly, the UK government cannot make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do realise how hard it is to get care staff ?

If staff have concerns explore those concerns.

I wont be having the vaccine, shock horror I'm a nurse by background.

about 160 of them were people who work in hospitality

Let's hope they are suitable

we've always found training new people a better way as those carers that jump from home to home are never happy and alway moaning or lazy unless they have moved into the area thats different.

our training is top notch too we dont chuck them under the bus like so do ...

The training package can be but, there are other concerns in nursing homes not just care staff and, nurses having the vaccine.

well thats quite obvious

No need to be rude. It's not obvious, quality of care cannot be judged by the uptake in vaccinations of the staff or a company's training package. "

rude ?? fail to see i was rude but hey ho quality of care is taught as part of the training package and what has quality of care got to do with the vaccine ?? that will come under risk accesments

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"you can not force people to have it end of really.

don't see why you say it need to be dealt with???

But if they could potentially pass it onto someone vulnerable?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And it would need a change in Law. That is not to say that there wouldn't be a change in Law proposed in the future.

it would require a change of existing contract though to make this retrospectively apply and its not clear in law how tribunals would see this

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"And it would need a change in Law. That is not to say that there wouldn't be a change in Law proposed in the future.

I've had a bit of a Google, some law firms have addressed the question as a hypothetical. The way they word it, it would seem "the government can't make you" and "an employer can't make you" are two separate questions.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"I find it quite staggering that after all the widely reported sacrifices that care staff have made throughout this pandemic that they are now coming under criticism like this with their continued employment being brought under scrutiny."

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

Care workers are constantly getting scrutinized, every time they get a first aid course (optional), Moving and handling, Health & Safety introduction and infection control (compulsory) to name a few. This scrutiny saves lives, end of.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Good luck with that if they have dementia Alzheimers etc.

They need specialist care.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!"

Totalitarian state. That wants to provide you with a vaccine in the middle of a global crisis, that just may save yours or someone else's life. Yep can see that.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!"

I quite enjoy my life not having to worry about catching polio, measles, tetanus, etc, or giving it to others.

I don't consider the right of spreading disease (or being a burden on the NHS), because I refused a proven medical intervention, worthwhile.

I much prefer my right to live a life safe from serious infectious disease, and also the right of the clinically vulnerable to the same.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!"

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

Moving and Handling isn't being scrutinised here though is it? What's being scrutinised is whether they should be dismissed from their employment. It's absurd.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing."

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Does respite mean anything to you?

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

What if the patient/service user infects the care worker?

As it was the case with the patent/service user sent back from hospital in the home Mrs works.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/01/21 19:34:40]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/01/21 19:34:46]

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Good luck with that if they have dementia Alzheimers etc.

They need specialist care."

Fully aware of that as a care worker.

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

"You do realise it's not compulsory. Whether you or anyone else for that matter likes it or not it's a person's individual choice.

The End.

(Waits for the name calling to begin)

That's all there is to it right now.

You know why the vaccines been rushed though, right?

And you know how it is that it's been able to be created, yes?

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By *iss DevilWoman
over a year ago

Bedford

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

ERM... How do you see that happening? There are conditions that an ordinary person cannot manage themselves. Also, does it mean that if you have mother/father/child that requires care, you're supposed to just give up on any career/your own life until they no longer need you to look after them? Would you also not want to have even just a few hours break in your caring duties? If yes, then you'd need to rely on paid carers, as not many people have big enough families or friends willing to help with the caring duties.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)"

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you.

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By *atEvolution OP Couple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you."

As is your right.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you."

If I wasn't vaccinated I couldn't receive *compulsory* education from 5-18. I certainly had no choice in the matter

I'm not saying the government can or should force vaccination. I think anyone employing anyone in health or social care should. And you can choose to work elsewhere.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

What if the patient/service user infects the care worker?

As it was the case with the patent/service user sent back from hospital in the home Mrs works. "

Not the Government's finest hour, was it.

Care workers are paid, to put the patient/carer's health and well being first. Surely not infecting them with this virus, or any other is pretty important, don't you think.

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Naive at best, drifting into ignorant. You can't "simply" look after someone at home who needs specialist care.

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By *astleman46Man
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

They possibly know something

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Well not if they need 24 hour care.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Well not if they need 24 hour care."

Well, it's too bad, their family shouldn't have let them get old.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Well not if they need 24 hour care.

Well, it's too bad, their family shouldn't have let them get old."

Did you enjoy Logan's Run, by any chance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you.

If I wasn't vaccinated I couldn't receive *compulsory* education from 5-18. I certainly had no choice in the matter

I'm not saying the government can or should force vaccination. I think anyone employing anyone in health or social care should. And you can choose to work elsewhere."

I work in healthcare, a individual can refuse treatment even though it’s against their best interests, and I think in the care profession service users can decline care if they are mentally capable, If a member of the public was to refuse the vaccine and get ill, I can’t think of anyone who would refuse them care because they haven’t had the vaccine, as some people are suggesting should we ostracise these people completely like some are suggesting with health and care workers?

Fyi I’ve had the vaccine.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

What if the patient/service user infects the care worker?

As it was the case with the patent/service user sent back from hospital in the home Mrs works.

Not the Government's finest hour, was it.

Care workers are paid, to put the patient/carer's health and well being first. Surely not infecting them with this virus, or any other is pretty important, don't you think.

Are you saying the care worker life and wellbeing is less important than the patient/carer's, simply because they are paid to do the said job?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if the carer infected the patient/service user?

What if the patient/service user infects the care worker?

As it was the case with the patent/service user sent back from hospital in the home Mrs works.

Not the Government's finest hour, was it.

Care workers are paid, to put the patient/carer's health and well being first. Surely not infecting them with this virus, or any other is pretty important, don't you think.

Are you saying the care worker life and wellbeing is less important than the patient/carer's, simply because they are paid to do the said job?

Well said, the number of referrals care providers are getting with people with covid is astonishing, care workers have been to hell and back since this pandemic started, with basic masks/aprons and gloves to protect.. which don’t.. fact.

They deserve far more than what some are saying on here.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you.

If I wasn't vaccinated I couldn't receive *compulsory* education from 5-18. I certainly had no choice in the matter

I'm not saying the government can or should force vaccination. I think anyone employing anyone in health or social care should. And you can choose to work elsewhere.

Fyi I’ve had the vaccine."

I think healthcare involves a duty of care, including taking reasonable precautions to avoid infecting people. I believe vaccination against a disease that's caused such havoc is a reasonable precaution. (Something like chicken pox - if it were generally available here - I'd say is outside the bounds)

At the moment it would seem that making it mandatory in healthcare might be possible.

I'm suggesting that it be made a requirement, that the liberty and individual risk argument is insignificant compared to the public health side. If you don't like the requirements of your employment you can get another job. I'm not suggesting ostracism or imprisonment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you.

If I wasn't vaccinated I couldn't receive *compulsory* education from 5-18. I certainly had no choice in the matter

I'm not saying the government can or should force vaccination. I think anyone employing anyone in health or social care should. And you can choose to work elsewhere.

Fyi I’ve had the vaccine.

At the moment it would seem that making it mandatory in healthcare might be possible.

The lawyers are already rubbing their hands

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's going to happen is that we'll end up with people using types of "health passports".

Antivax is a bigger movement than people realise. Making herd immunity slower and harder to achieve.

This will lead to more requirements for negative tests to fly, or proof of vaccination etc. Which will further antagonise the antivaxer crowd.

It's lose lose.

It could result in ostracizing large portions of society.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

They've already written about it, because they expect it to be a problem, yes.

I prioritise public health in this instance over individual liberty. Always have, always will, don't care what anyone thinks about it.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What's going to happen is that we'll end up with people using types of "health passports".

Antivax is a bigger movement than people realise. Making herd immunity slower and harder to achieve.

This will lead to more requirements for negative tests to fly, or proof of vaccination etc. Which will further antagonise the antivaxer crowd.

It's lose lose.

It could result in ostracizing large portions of society. "

I'm all for antagonising the pro preventable disease crowd.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Naive at best, drifting into ignorant. You can't "simply" look after someone at home who needs specialist care.

Care worker here for the last 20 years, who happens to look after terminally ill parent at home. Believe me I know what specialist care is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What's going to happen is that we'll end up with people using types of "health passports".

Antivax is a bigger movement than people realise. Making herd immunity slower and harder to achieve.

This will lead to more requirements for negative tests to fly, or proof of vaccination etc. Which will further antagonise the antivaxer crowd.

It's lose lose.

It could result in ostracizing large portions of society.

I'm all for antagonising the pro preventable disease crowd."

The vaccine is already behind the mutant strain, so far tests have shown the vaccine is 50/50 in preventing the South African strain, and this virus is with us forever, if it keeps mutating at this rate, well, good luck

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Duty of care springs to mind, the homes have a balance to strike between the possible implications to residents and the rights of staff..

If it's done properly with respect etc it's doable..

No need for any 'name calling' at all really..

What happens if the residents insist their carers have had the jab? What happens if one of them catches and dies from something preventable? "

Such issues will need to be addressed, families of will have concerns too..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"What's going to happen is that we'll end up with people using types of "health passports".

Antivax is a bigger movement than people realise. Making herd immunity slower and harder to achieve.

This will lead to more requirements for negative tests to fly, or proof of vaccination etc. Which will further antagonise the antivaxer crowd.

It's lose lose.

It could result in ostracizing large portions of society.

I'm all for antagonising the pro preventable disease crowd.

*Shrug* separate issue.

I don't see any other way out of this mess apart from mass vaccination, and I personally believe that healthcare workers have a duty of care not to be a risk to their patients/service users.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's so obvious the majority of people who post in this forum section are in favour of compulsory vaccine for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m going to chip in with my personal view on this.

I have worked in the care profession for more years than I care to remember. It’s a vocation for sure. Therefore I have a certain level of responsibility towards the individuals I care for and my colleagues.

Because of that I have had the first part of the vaccine and get the second next week. I also have the flu vaccination each year.

I have a duty of care and I believe that anyone looking after vulnerable people should have the vaccination.

Let me stress again, this is my personal opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Big Respect

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Naive at best, drifting into ignorant. You can't "simply" look after someone at home who needs specialist care.

Care worker here for the last 20 years, who happens to look after terminally ill parent at home. Believe me I know what specialist care is.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It's so obvious the majority of people who post in this forum section are in favour of compulsory vaccine for everyone."

If it was that obvious you would have as you claim, the majority saying it..

Simply not true to say that as it's not true to say someone who is not in favour of vaccination is a virus denier..

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By *urtleJRCouple
over a year ago

Ystradgynlais

Mandatory vaccination for healthcare, just like the hepatitis schedules for EPP.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!

Yet. 43 countries across the world require you to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate before entering the country.

If you don't vaccinate you don't go.

You can search malaria too if you like, same thing.

I'm not sure about the precedent for adults, but I was certainly required to be fully vaccinated before I could enter school. (Australia)

That’s freedom of choice, you don’t vax, you don’t go, I’ll keep my freedom of choice thank you.

If I wasn't vaccinated I couldn't receive *compulsory* education from 5-18. I certainly had no choice in the matter

I'm not saying the government can or should force vaccination. I think anyone employing anyone in health or social care should. And you can choose to work elsewhere.

Fyi I’ve had the vaccine.

At the moment it would seem that making it mandatory in healthcare might be possible.

The lawyers are already rubbing their hands"

Great, good for the lawyers. Meanwhile people die. What a perverted world

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"My elderly father has had one or two of his care assistance rota turning up unmasked, being asked to wear a mask, and then saying that they either could not or would not wear a mask.

We phoned the care agency and told them that these carers would not be allowed to enter his home again.

What did they say about the carers who turned up not wearing masks? "

We told the care agency in no uncertain terms that any carer who arrived not wearing a mask would not be allowed into the house until they put one on, properly covering mouth and nose. If they removed it while in the house they would be told once to put it back on. If they did not, they would be told to leave the house immediately and that person would not be allowed to return.

The agency has not argued, as they know full well that these carers are in the wrong. If it became a problem I would have no hesitation in reporting the matter to higher authority and/or the newspapers.

I know that I am going to get someone bleating that masks do not provide perfect protection. Of course they don't. But any carer that has so little regard for my father's well-being that they do not even try, I would not trust with giving him personal care anyway.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

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By *DGF20Man
over a year ago

Dublin

[Removed by poster at 23/01/21 21:30:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in a care home and have had the vaccine

Several staff haven't

This is their choice, and their job role will not change in any way because of it

Residents or their families do not have any right to know staffs private medical information. The only way they could guarantee not being cared for by an unvaccinated carer would be to move out of the care home and back to the community where they would have to rely on relatives for support. Relatives whom have probably not been vaccinated themselves.

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By *DGF20Man
over a year ago

Dublin

Basically people who are forcing vaccine are much worse sort of people than anti-vaxxers...

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By *eukcplCouple
over a year ago

durham

"Compulsory vaxxers... you really want to give up your freedoms and liberty that easily?

Totalitarian state springs to mind.

If you’ve had the vaccine and it’s so wonderful why are you so worried? After all it’s going to protect you, isn’t it!"

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Simply OK. Carry on working.

If people are concerned for their relatives wellbeing, they can take care of them at home. Simple as.

Naive at best, drifting into ignorant. You can't "simply" look after someone at home who needs specialist care.

Care worker here for the last 20 years, who happens to look after terminally ill parent at home. Believe me I know what specialist care is.

Much

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it."

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

And for the records the outbreak in the care home where Mrs works ocured more than three weeks after 95% of the staff and residents have had the vaccine. Will resist on sharing details on the outcome of the outbreak, but not convinced the vaccine is the silver bullet everyone is relaying on.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Basically people who are forcing vaccine are much worse sort of people than anti-vaxxers...

Who is forcing it?

We weren't forced as young parents to have our kids vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella and polio..

We did it as it was beneficial as I assume your own parents / guardians did..?

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By *d6869Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination. "

A dangerous move

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

I'd say no vaccine . Means no job. End of. If my parent was in a home and there were anti vaxers id sharp move them out. This isnt a joke. Ok there may be long standing issues but at the moment the alternative is death. Yes it comes to us all in the end but id rather it not be the COVID way. Yes a,personal choice as it is the employers whether to employ them or not

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

It requires two doses to provide the high level of protection.....

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

It requires two doses to provide the high level of protection....."

Aware of that and hopeful, sadly too late for some...

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Typical Britain. Average 1348 deaths a day yet the discussion is on flouting lockdowns where we can, and now arguing over taking a vaccine

Cue suggesting banning condoms and Bareback for all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only way the alternative is death is if covid has a 100% mortality rate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

I reckon these people would love to have a solution to identify the non vaccinated... Maybe a band around the left bicep with a symbol of some sort!? Maybe mark the unjabbeds property with the same symbol too so people avoid their houses and businesses... Hmmm.

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By *eukcplCouple
over a year ago

durham

Just because you dont want this vaccine at this moment in time does not make you a conspirator or an anti Vaxer.

Matt hancock said the day before he went into isolation.

We dont know if it stops you catching the virus.

We dont know if it stops you spreading it.

We dont know if it stops you getting really poorly with it.

This is why you must still follow all the rules.

It's a rushed vaccine that they dont know how its gonna work.

Check out the last rushed vaccine in 2009/2010. Swine flu vaccine.

Brain damage

Narcolepsy

Catoplexy

These are ongoing cases in the courts as we speak.

Do your own research and make up your own mind as we all should

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Erm...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

You say nothing, how would you feel if they decided to tell you you shouldn't be on a swing site, you wouldn't it's personal choice and if they want to take risks it's no worse than doing a dangerous sport, we know the risks but we still do it...

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

I don't care if the vaccine is a "silver bullet", all I care about is whether my fathers carers being vaccinated will give him some level of protection or not. Manifestly the vaccine gives _some_ protection, and anything is an improvement on nothing. Same argument for masks. If it gives him even 1% extra chance of surviving through the coming year, then I want that 1% chance for him. If a carer does not wish to be vaccinated, that is their free and personal choice, nothing to do with me or my father. But I then do not want them anywhere near him. If the care agency refuses to reveal the vaccination status of its carers, then fine, as long as they are happy with that being reported in the newspapers.

Carers can choose not to take medically protective measures. But care users have an absolute right to that information, and a right not to be exposed to greater danger than they need to be.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Tbh that sort of inane fantasising says much about your own thought processes..

To try and make a comparison between fascists and genocidal acts and people choosing to be vaccinated is complete fucking drivel..

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By *eukcplCouple
over a year ago

durham

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

And for the records the outbreak in the care home where Mrs works ocured more

Carers can choose not to take medically protective measures. But care users have an absolute right to that information, and a right not to be exposed to greater danger than they need to be."

But once your father is fully vaccinated, surely it wouldn't matter if his carers were as there would only be them in danger.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

I'm not saying you have to take this vaccine. All I'm saying is that if you're a health professional and you choose not to be vaccinated, then I personally choose not to have you providing health care to me and more especially to my father who is in the highest danger group. And if any health professional refuses to tell me whether they have been vaccinated, I will just assume that they have not, and request that they stay away from me and mine. It's not being bigoted. It's not persecution of any sector of society. It's not discrimination. It is sheer simple self concern for the health of my family.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Tbh that sort of inane fantasising says much about your own thought processes..

To try and make a comparison between fascists and genocidal acts and people choosing to be vaccinated is complete fucking drivel..

You need to read through some of the comments in this forum.

Here's one from another thread:

"We need to bring back the death penalty for those who refuse the vaccine, for the greater good of our new normal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Tbh that sort of inane fantasising says much about your own thought processes..

To try and make a comparison between fascists and genocidal acts and people choosing to be vaccinated is complete fucking drivel..

I didn't say anything about people choosing. That's their right. As it is to refuse.

I did however make a comparison between the people championing force being put behind the vaccination and the people who grassed up Jews and nazi opposition to the gestapo...

By the way, you should probably actually learn what fascism and genocide is before you make remarks like that. You probably think Hitler and Nazis when you say that. But never Stalin or "the greater good totalitarianism" of communism. Funny that.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Tbh that sort of inane fantasising says much about your own thought processes..

To try and make a comparison between fascists and genocidal acts and people choosing to be vaccinated is complete fucking drivel..

I didn't say anything about people choosing. That's their right. As it is to refuse.

I did however make a comparison between the people championing force being put behind the vaccination and the people who grassed up Jews and nazi opposition to the gestapo...

It's still a banal and meaningless comparison regardless of which tyranny you choose..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Why? If someone who is vaccinated can still pass it on, then what is the difference? The only difference is that the person who has the vaccine will more than likely not die when THEY catch it. It makes absolutely sod all difference to the person who catches it from them, unless they themselves are vaccinated, and if they are vaccinated then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether the person they caught it from is vaccinated or not...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only way the alternative is death is if covid has a 100% mortality rate."

I see 100% so you happen to get it God forbid and die with it because you refused the vaccine. Is that 100% or 100% of that person.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Tbh that sort of inane fantasising says much about your own thought processes..

To try and make a comparison between fascists and genocidal acts and people choosing to be vaccinated is complete fucking drivel..

I didn't say anything about people choosing. That's their right. As it is to refuse.

I did however make a comparison between the people championing force being put behind the vaccination and the people who grassed up Jews and nazi opposition to the gestapo...

It's still a banal and meaningless comparison regardless of which tyranny you choose.."

No it isn't. One group of people forcing their views and wants onto another with the help of the state, for the "greater good", is the very definition of tyranny. And these threads are bursting at the seams with it.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination. "
Or a way of saving and protecting lives!

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"A good way to stop all of this is what will most likely happen.

Would imagine first on the list will be life insurance.

No jab will equal no cover or invalidation of your cover.

There will be plenty more parts of life that will follow suit.

Not so gentle persuasion but if its what is needed then so be it.

I'll vote with both hands for that, but in at least 2 years time when more extensive data is available.

In the meantime no one under any circumstances should be forced to have the jab.

And for the records the outbreak in the care home where Mrs works ocured more

Carers can choose not to take medically protective measures. But care users have an absolute right to that information, and a right not to be exposed to greater danger than they need to be.

But once your father is fully vaccinated, surely it wouldn't matter if his carers were as there would only be them in danger."

We all know how specious that argument is. My fathers vaccination will not give him 100% protection. His carers vaccinations will not give them 100% protection. But both vaccinated gives more protection than only one vaccinated. And I really do not care what the precise extra level of protection is, it is more than nothing. If it gave absolute protection, that's fantastic. If it gives only a 50% extra protection margin, then I'd rather have that than nothing. If it only gives 1% extra protection margin, it's still better than nothing. And even if it gives zero extra protection, then nothing has been lost, and I appreciate the health professional having the respect for their clients to do the best they can.

Which is what it's all about really. If a health care professional will not at least try to reduce the exposure of their patients, then I have to assume that they are not going to make other efforts to protect their patients. Their problem, not mine, but I do not want them administering to my family.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think some people don't realize how selfish they are. "

That is not being selfish at all. You sound very entitled.

NHS guidance is not to have the vaccine if planning to get pregnant.

Expecting her to wait is incredibly unreasonable.

If she were to catch Covid while pregnant, unless she has underlying conditions it is incredibly likely that both her and baby will be fine.

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

"https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-concerns-grow-over-number-of-carers-turning-down-vaccine-12195852

Simply Okay. Carry on working? Or what?

Keep your nose out of my business

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By *ollydoesWoman
over a year ago

Shangri-La

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination.

I do not think that such an argument would stand up legally."

It wouldn't. It's not discrimination. It's a condition of employment. Just like a delivery company needing drivers is not discriminating agaisnt non drivers. It would be written up in a contract. Then up to them if they sighn and accept those conditions or not.

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By *orty-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Leyland

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination.

I do not think that such an argument would stand up legally.

You wouldn't apply for a driving job if you didn't have a licence.

Not capable to do the job.

Someone totally capable of doing the job being denied work because they didn't have the vaccine vs someone of the same capabilities with the vaccine would be discrimination.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Omg listen to yourself. A little bit dramatic dnt you think

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By *ollydoesWoman
over a year ago

Shangri-La

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination.

I do not think that such an argument would stand up legally.

You wouldn't apply for a driving job if you didn't have a licence.

Not capable to do the job.

Someone totally capable of doing the job being denied work because they didn't have the vaccine vs someone of the same capabilities with the vaccine would be discrimination.

I myself had to have a hepatis jab for 1 care job I did. It's not discriminating at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Omg listen to yourself. A little bit dramatic dnt you think"

You don't listen to something written?

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By *irtygirl11Couple
over a year ago

East Cheshire

I think that if care home staff refuse to have the jab, they could be sacked for refusing a reasonable request under health and safety unless medicaly exempt. This would be the 'health' side of the regulations, not the safety.

Chances are that if you want to travel abroad, you will need proof of vaccination to enter another country.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

That could be seen as discrimination.

I do not think that such an argument would stand up legally.

You wouldn't apply for a driving job if you didn't have a licence.

Not capable to do the job.

Someone totally capable of doing the job being denied work because they didn't have the vaccine vs someone of the same capabilities with the vaccine would be discrimination.

Only its not. If you're caring for the vulnerable you'd employ the one that's least risk.

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford

I believe it is pretty clear that whilst asymptomatic carriers can still transmit the virus they are far far less likely to infect other people than those who are symptomatic with a high viral load and heavy coughing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a huge number of people on here who would fit right in in specific bits of 1940s Europe.

You can see them in their writing and imagine them chomping at the bit to add their signature to legislature that would give the gestapo the powers to forcefully vaccinate people at gunpoint.

They'd probably watch their neighbours and family get marched off to camps (after they'd grassed them up in the first place) to be locked up until they are forced into compliance...

Omg listen to yourself. A little bit dramatic dnt you think

You don't listen to something written? "

Dnt be so childish. Lets correct this for the dramatic one.

omg a little dramatic arent we.

Is that better

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By *konCouple
over a year ago

cardiff

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment."

Sieg heil mein fuhrer

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By *parkle1974Woman
over a year ago

Leeds

Its a bit like saying they should all have the flu jab.....

If people do not want to have the jab for whatever reason then they should not be forced out of a job.

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By *ch WellMan
over a year ago

Scotland

"I think that if care home staff refuse to have the jab, they could be sacked for refusing a reasonable request under health and safety unless medicaly exempt. This would be the 'health' side of the regulations, not the safety.

Chances are that if you want to travel abroad, you will need proof of vaccination to enter another country."

Absolute LOLsarific

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think we have a duty to inform and educate the population over these safe vaccines. And I think more employment contracts will be amended to require staff to have had a vaccine, unless exempt, in order to continue with their work m, as a choice.

There is lots of ignorance as this is new and complex. That's a priority to redress first, before increasing our getting reductions to infection levels

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would make accepting the vaccines (or a medical exemption) a condition of employment.

Sieg heil mein fuhrer "

Weil ich eine Frau bin, sollte es Führerin sein