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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " Did She have a copy of the daily mail with her? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good " Maybe it needs to be looked after more? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? " Maybe what do you suggest ? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? " Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes?" And that would cure all the problems ? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes? And that would cure all the problems ? " Did I say that? | |||
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"Why is their pay frozen? How is the NHS funded?" There was a public sector pay freeze for 6 years Its funded through taxes and increasing private funding. | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes?" Use money saved by chopping the 6 figure salary "management" multitudes and the cream cake eating rude receptionists and hire more nurses, doctors and paramedics? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes? Use money saved by chopping the 6 figure salary "management" multitudes and the cream cake eating rude receptionists and hire more nurses, doctors and paramedics?" Yep why does a hospital need a reception. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " Maybe it isn't as good as we'd like it to be, or get told it is. After all, how many other countries follow our model of healthcare? Exactly. It's something that's become so entrenched in the national psyche - because of its being free at the point of use - that any politician that dares to suggest changing it in any way commits career suicide. And yet other countries seem to manage far better than we do. Germany for example. I'm not saying I have any answers, but it's a debate worth having | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. Maybe it isn't as good as we'd like it to be, or get told it is. After all, how many other countries follow our model of healthcare? Exactly. It's something that's become so entrenched in the national psyche - because of its being free at the point of use - that any politician that dares to suggest changing it in any way commits career suicide. And yet other countries seem to manage far better than we do. Germany for example. I'm not saying I have any answers, but it's a debate worth having " Once covid is over..it will go 1 way or another. | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? " There have been countless examples of contracts given to firms who have pissed millions away. | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? There have been countless examples of contracts given to firms who have pissed millions away." That’s where a lot of the money goes bad management bad planning | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? There have been countless examples of contracts given to firms who have pissed millions away. That’s where a lot of the money goes bad management bad planning " I agree. | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes?" So you are saying if you pay them more they will work harder? The NHS has suffered under every government in one form or another. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep." I think it often gets taken for granted. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. Did She have a copy of the daily mail with her?" Incredible assumptions there. | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes? So you are saying if you pay them more they will work harder? The NHS has suffered under every government in one form or another. " I'm saying that people who routinely save peoples lives shouldnt have to endure 6 year pay freezes Is that wrong? This is nothing to do with labour. The gmnt have been in power for a decade. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted." I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. " A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer." So what is? I'd say it was more than fit for purpose. | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer. So what is? I'd say it was more than fit for purpose. " I’d say it’s far from fit for purpose... we can agree to disagree 
What’s the answer??? If I knew that I wouldn’t be on here wasting time on a swingers forum lol. I’d say a good start is a thorough assessment of what It actually achieves and how it does it.... like most public sector it wastes money like it’s gone out of fashion
Oh and for charity I’m in no way critiquing hard working staff... I’m saying I believe there are organisational issues that make the NHS not fit god purpose in general | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho." That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. " Agree. From personal experience some parts of the NHS are brilliant but some have been horrendous. That is an observation,bourne out from more than one personal experience, not just a random criticism. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. " I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. Agree. From personal experience some parts of the NHS are brilliant but some have been horrendous. That is an observation,bourne out from more than one personal experience, not just a random criticism. " Yes and we don't criticise because by the time we get help or a problem v s resolved we're so damned relieved that we're actually grateful. Also we can see that the staff are mostly doing their best and the last thing we want is for them to be criticised so we keep quiet. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation." Agreed. I think that healthcare by ability to pay is something that we should avoid. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation." I think it's clear that it can't continue as it is. We've told our kids that if they can possibly afford it they should take out private health insurance. Being young and fit they can't see the necessity lol. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Agreed. I think that healthcare by ability to pay is something that we should avoid." Me too but to a degree it already exists. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Agreed. I think that healthcare by ability to pay is something that we should avoid. Me too but to a degree it already exists. " But it's making that degree bigger. Personally I think that's where are headed too. Fine if you can afford it Not great if you can't. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Agreed. I think that healthcare by ability to pay is something that we should avoid. Me too but to a degree it already exists. But it's making that degree bigger. Personally I think that's where are headed too. Fine if you can afford it Not great if you can't. " Yes. We end up like America. If you have money your health is great. If you don't you die of stupid preventable shit. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation." Thing is Lionel, its not a binary choice of only between what we have or what America has. There are plenty of good examples of health provision in plenty of other countries. As I've said throughout the many threads on this topic. And as others have stated here. We need to have a proper debate about what we want, what it costs and what we are prepared to pay. I'm not sure that taking the current model and throwing money at it is the answer and farming out bits to private firms is even worse... As you get an NHS version of a private service at a higher cost. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Thing is Lionel, its not a binary choice of only between what we have or what America has. There are plenty of good examples of health provision in plenty of other countries. As I've said throughout the many threads on this topic. And as others have stated here. We need to have a proper debate about what we want, what it costs and what we are prepared to pay. I'm not sure that taking the current model and throwing money at it is the answer and farming out bits to private firms is even worse... As you get an NHS version of a private service at a higher cost. " I know, I was just saying I'd much rather what he have her,to an insurance based one like in the states. Like I said,I think it will either of 2 ways. I just fear greater privitasion will take us closer to that American model. Remember trump's eyes lighting up when he thought he was getting his grubby little mitts on it. There is absolutely huge profits to be potentially made in the health sector.And I've no doubt some people have their eyes on them. | |||
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"The fact that it has carried us through his pandemic proves its fit for purpose. " The ICU staff are having a wonderful time. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Thing is Lionel, its not a binary choice of only between what we have or what America has. There are plenty of good examples of health provision in plenty of other countries. As I've said throughout the many threads on this topic. And as others have stated here. We need to have a proper debate about what we want, what it costs and what we are prepared to pay. I'm not sure that taking the current model and throwing money at it is the answer and farming out bits to private firms is even worse... As you get an NHS version of a private service at a higher cost. I know, I was just saying I'd much rather what he have her,to an insurance based one like in the states. Like I said,I think it will either of 2 ways. I just fear greater privitasion will take us closer to that American model. Remember trump's eyes lighting up when he thought he was getting his grubby little mitts on it. There is absolutely huge profits to be potentially made in the health sector.And I've no doubt some people have their eyes on them." Very true... And always mindful of that epithet.... Be careful what you wish for. | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. I think based on my experiences personally and with family, that unless you need it on a fairly regular basis you don't give it much thought. Once you do need to access it regularly you realise how awful the situation really is and has been for some time. A few years ago me dad had a heart attack They saved his life and he was out in a few weeks without spending a penny. A service like that should be treasured and maintained imho. That's great to hear. 11 years ago my mum broke her back. She was in hospital for a week on a special bed designed for spinal injury patients and fitted with a bespoke brace by a spinal surgeon. She was then transferred to a rehab centre where she stayed for 6 weeks in a private, en suite room with daily physio and carers round the clock. All that was NHS funded. While she didn't pay at point of delivery she and my father have contributed tax and NI all their working lives. Since then she's had various very serious medical problems. The care she's received has varied and sometimes been almost negligent. The unpalatable fact is that for whatever reason the NHS is not as good as we (some of us) think it is and wasn't pre-covid and unless we stop defending it and start asking difficult questions of government it will get worse. I wouldnt disagree I'd say it's far from perfect but I'd much rather have that, than anything resembling what they have in america. My guess is post covid they will either look at increased taxes or increased privatisation. Thing is Lionel, its not a binary choice of only between what we have or what America has. There are plenty of good examples of health provision in plenty of other countries. As I've said throughout the many threads on this topic. And as others have stated here. We need to have a proper debate about what we want, what it costs and what we are prepared to pay. I'm not sure that taking the current model and throwing money at it is the answer and farming out bits to private firms is even worse... As you get an NHS version of a private service at a higher cost. I know, I was just saying I'd much rather what he have her,to an insurance based one like in the states. Like I said,I think it will either of 2 ways. I just fear greater privitasion will take us closer to that American model. Remember trump's eyes lighting up when he thought he was getting his grubby little mitts on it. There is absolutely huge profits to be potentially made in the health sector.And I've no doubt some people have their eyes on them. Very true... And always mindful of that epithet.... Be careful what you wish for. " Indeed | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer." That's basically what I was fumbling around trying to say earlier. Because we now expect the NHS to be all things to all people, and the more it can do the more it's expected to do, you could probably throw ten times as much money at it and it would still be in crisis. I'm not for one second saying that it isn't on crisis, bit how do we judge when it isn't any more? Increased capacity just on the off chance that something might happen? Or free plastic surgery to anyone that wants it to use up the spare capacity? I think we need to talk seriously about what we want the NHS to do and be able to do in the future, and how we're going to pay for it, but without the rhetoric and hysteria that any deviation from what we have now is somehow the American route | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer. That's basically what I was fumbling around trying to say earlier. Because we now expect the NHS to be all things to all people, and the more it can do the more it's expected to do, you could probably throw ten times as much money at it and it would still be in crisis. I'm not for one second saying that it isn't on crisis, bit how do we judge when it isn't any more? Increased capacity just on the off chance that something might happen? Or free plastic surgery to anyone that wants it to use up the spare capacity? I think we need to talk seriously about what we want the NHS to do and be able to do in the future, and how we're going to pay for it, but without the rhetoric and hysteria that any deviation from what we have now is somehow the American route" No one said we had the american model. | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer. That's basically what I was fumbling around trying to say earlier. Because we now expect the NHS to be all things to all people, and the more it can do the more it's expected to do, you could probably throw ten times as much money at it and it would still be in crisis. I'm not for one second saying that it isn't on crisis, bit how do we judge when it isn't any more? Increased capacity just on the off chance that something might happen? Or free plastic surgery to anyone that wants it to use up the spare capacity? I think we need to talk seriously about what we want the NHS to do and be able to do in the future, and how we're going to pay for it, but without the rhetoric and hysteria that any deviation from what we have now is somehow the American route" Can you also provide a link on how you go about getting free plastic surgery please? | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " And she’s right. The NHS isn’t fit for purpose due to all the austerity cuts over the years. If the government was really bothered about it and thought it so great, they’d invest properly in it, wouldn’t they. | |||
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"The underlying problem is that the NHS has almost become cult like. Any form of questioning of critique is immediately shot down. The NHS is already a bottomless pit of money that consumes billions and billions year after year. Is the ‘idea’ of our NHS a good thing.. absolutely. Does the NHS do lots of amazing things... absolutely. Is it fit for purpose or what it should be.... nowhere near. And continually pumping money into it is most definitely not the answer. That's basically what I was fumbling around trying to say earlier. Because we now expect the NHS to be all things to all people, and the more it can do the more it's expected to do, you could probably throw ten times as much money at it and it would still be in crisis. I'm not for one second saying that it isn't on crisis, bit how do we judge when it isn't any more? Increased capacity just on the off chance that something might happen? Or free plastic surgery to anyone that wants it to use up the spare capacity? I think we need to talk seriously about what we want the NHS to do and be able to do in the future, and how we're going to pay for it, but without the rhetoric and hysteria that any deviation from what we have now is somehow the American route" The NHS isn't providing "free" anything. Those of us lucky enough to have been able to work have contributed to it via our tax and national insurance. I think if we rid ourselves of the notion that it's free and we should be grateful we'd start to ask questions. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. And she’s right. The NHS isn’t fit for purpose due to all the austerity cuts over the years. If the government was really bothered about it and thought it so great, they’d invest properly in it, wouldn’t they. " That's the point that some of us are saying. The answer isn't to keep throwing ever increasing amounts of tax payers money at this nebulous undefined entity / cult, only to keep labelling it unfit for purpose. What is its purpose? What does success look like? What is enough funding? Unfortunately politicising it doesn't address any of the above or fix it. Saying Ill of the NHS is almost akin to blashpeming mohammed or whichever God you worship. All NHS employees are beyond reproach, all NHS managers are overpaid and useless and so on. We have to somehow raise the debate above that. Making health a x party matter might be a place to start. | |||
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" The NHS isn't providing "free" anything. Those of us lucky enough to have been able to work have contributed to it via our tax and national insurance. I think if we rid ourselves of the notion that it's free and we should be grateful we'd start to ask questions." Also. We need to find a way of asking proper questions when they arise without fear of 'retribution' by staff either. I will give you an example: only last year someone I know who is a nurse told me that she was having a problem with a really grumpy man at outpatients - another friend asked what did she do in that circumstance, without blinking the nurse said, 'Oh I just pop him way down the waiting room waiting list, if I'm lucky he gets fed up and goes home. | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? There have been countless examples of contracts given to firms who have pissed millions away." 12 billion on a system that never worked and had to be scrapped .  | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? There have been countless examples of contracts given to firms who have pissed millions away.12 billion on a system that never worked and had to be scrapped . "https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684 | |||
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"I...The NHS isn’t fit for purpose due to all the austerity cuts over the years. If the government was really bothered about it and thought it so great, they’d invest properly in it, wouldn’t they. " Conservative governments do *not* like the NHS. They voted against it many times from the very first proposal. Successive Conservative governments use a tried and tested strategy which has been used in a number of sectors: 1) Defund the organisation until it cannot operate properly 2) Make the public think the organisation is badly run and not fit for purpose 3) Convince the public that privatisation will solve the problem 4) Sell the organisation off piecemeal to private companies who's primary concern is profit, not to serve the nation, and to which persons in the government of the day have a vested interest. | |||
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"Look at the conclusions of the inquiry into pelvic mesh that was published last summer ..tough reading for people in the medical world..." I'm glad someone else has read it  | |||
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"Look at the conclusions of the inquiry into pelvic mesh that was published last summer ..tough reading for people in the medical world..." Except it had a 98 % success rate compared to at 60 for the other treatments,all procedures carry risks this one far fewer than most, however with a lot of noise and press behind you those who had a bad experience have buggered it up for thousands of other women | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " Are you not forgetting how bad it gets every winter in the NHS at least this time wedont have people dieing in trolleys in the corridor as we did every winter....dont be quick to disregard the old ladies view | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted." This without a doubt, nhs isn't perfect and in some areas far from it but it's abused and mistreated by many, the level of expectation is too high. Everyone demands gold standard when the reality is, good enough is good enough. | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Maybe what do you suggest ? Not subjecting them to 6 year pay freezes? Use money saved by chopping the 6 figure salary "management" multitudes and the cream cake eating rude receptionists and hire more nurses, doctors and paramedics? Yep why does a hospital need a reception." Wierd you have to have as reception in my work used it many times daily in fact. Receptionists are not highly paid anyway | |||
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"My dad says something similar. It's based on his and my mother's experiences over the last ten years. I do think that we're in grave danger of all paying lip service to the NHS staff and everyone telling everyone how great it is while the NHS itself is out at sea drowning and shouting for help, it's cries drowned out by people clapping on their doorstep. I think it often gets taken for granted. This without a doubt, nhs isn't perfect and in some areas far from it but it's abused and mistreated by many, the level of expectation is too high. Everyone demands gold standard when the reality is, good enough is good enough. " People demand gold standard but are only prepared to pay for bronze standard. Guess there'll be disappointed people | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are not gods they are fighting a deadly virus that they dont really no much about,i worked for the nhs for 14 years and so fed up with people bad mouthing it ,over 200 staff have died as well in this pandemic, if you think going private like usa is the way well good luck with that ,people die in the states becouse they cannot afford medical insurance or medication like insulin,..we are lucky to have a free service..." Firstly it's not free. Not even close to it. Over 20 percent of govt spend is on the nhs. It's not free. Secondly nobody in their right mind is suggesting privatising anything or that American style is the only othe option. Third no organisation or staff should be beyond scrutiny or criticism. The point is... Its not doing a good job in many areas.... It does a fantastic job in many areas. But there needs to be a proper debate and make it fit for purpose and meet expectations. | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are not gods they are fighting a deadly virus that they dont really no much about,i worked for the nhs for 14 years and so fed up with people bad mouthing it ,over 200 staff have died as well in this pandemic, if you think going private like usa is the way well good luck with that ,people die in the states becouse they cannot afford medical insurance or medication like insulin,..we are lucky to have a free service..." Thank you Tinkerbell67, and all your colleagues everywhere, for all the great work you do, healing people and saving lives. What you say is exactly right. I expect every single person on this thread, and likely the whole site, was safely delivered into the world by NHS midwives, doctors and nurses. I'm proud of you. And so are millions of us. x To those who prefer to listen to Tory governments and how well their policies work for the nation, let us know how you think Brexit is going. Do you see a pattern? You should. | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are not gods they are fighting a deadly virus that they dont really no much about,i worked for the nhs for 14 years and so fed up with people bad mouthing it ,over 200 staff have died as well in this pandemic, if you think going private like usa is the way well good luck with that ,people die in the states becouse they cannot afford medical insurance or medication like insulin,..we are lucky to have a free service..." You are right.. If anyone advocates the USA way of health care rather than our NHS are plainly Mad!! | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are not gods they are fighting a deadly virus that they dont really no much about,i worked for the nhs for 14 years and so fed up with people bad mouthing it ,over 200 staff have died as well in this pandemic, if you think going private like usa is the way well good luck with that ,people die in the states becouse they cannot afford medical insurance or medication like insulin,..we are lucky to have a free service... Thank you Tinkerbell67, and all your colleagues everywhere, for all the great work you do, healing people and saving lives. What you say is exactly right. I expect every single person on this thread, and likely the whole site, was safely delivered into the world by NHS midwives, doctors and nurses. I'm proud of you. And so are millions of us. x To those who prefer to listen to Tory governments and how well their policies work for the nation, let us know how you think Brexit is going. Do you see a pattern? You should." While I agree with you saying that we should be grateful for the good things the nhs does your bringing politics into make YOU part of the problem with the future. The whole country needs an open honest debate about the future, we need to decide what we are going to do to keep essential services freely available to all and at the same time stop people running to it for no good reason the problem with anything that's free people abuse it | |||
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"Do people ever stop and think that the NHS is facing a National health crisis that is costing them more than smoking & drinking put together? And that's before Covid? We, as the public, need to help them by helping ourselves too but this doesn't seem to be ok? " That could be a great start. Stop using the NHS prescription service for drugs that are actually cheaper to buy off the shelf. Or going to the doctors because you have a cold, or general ache. But then, I'll probably be accused of health shaming or something  | |||
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"Do people ever stop and think that the NHS is facing a National health crisis that is costing them more than smoking & drinking put together? And that's before Covid? We, as the public, need to help them by helping ourselves too but this doesn't seem to be ok? " I'd rather blame someone else though.. | |||
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"The gmnt funds the NHS ,its linked to politics,there is no way out of that. Nearly everyone has said it needs to change but not 1 person has offered a suggestion. For those who think the anerican model is 'scaremongering ',liz truss has already had several meetings with us firms,whilst this doesnt mean we will end up with a us style system,I dont blame people for being worried. Even a system where you pay into it,a lot of people are struggling to survive now. If its a choice between putting food on the table and paying for healthcare, there will only be 1 winner. What then? Clearly something needs to be done but what? It's certainly not perfect but we are lucky to have it and as backformore said,sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for." When I mentioned Politics, I was more aiming for people blaming the Tories, Labour, comparing it to Brexit etc. It's the same old argument. People on all sides of the political spectrum instantly jump to the default position of blaming others. Obviously government funds the service. That doesn't mean we have to use it as some kind of points scorer | |||
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"Do people ever stop and think that the NHS is facing a National health crisis that is costing them more than smoking & drinking put together? And that's before Covid? We, as the public, need to help them by helping ourselves too but this doesn't seem to be ok? I'd rather blame someone else though.. " Unfortunately everyone does  ... | |||
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"Lot of talk how about the NHS is over bloated but look and how they are managing the vaccination programme. And imagine what it would be like in the hands of serco." 20 times the cost? | |||
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"Lot of talk how about the NHS is over bloated but look and how they are managing the vaccination programme. And imagine what it would be like in the hands of serco. 20 times the cost? " Well they have to take their cut . | |||
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"Wasn’t it ten years ago that 12 Billion got wasted on NHS IT disaster ? " 12 years ago..... | |||
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"Lot of talk how about the NHS is over bloated but look and how they are managing the vaccination programme. And imagine what it would be like in the hands of serco. 20 times the cost? "
Still have problems, still have same people complaining, added to that many would say it's another inside job and ministers possibly gaining personally. If something were to go horribly wrong I wonder what those in the current health system would have to say picking up the fallout too.
Fundamentally people are too impatient and no matter who or what is done, it's never quick enough, never good enough and never really pleases. We're a nation of moaners, entitled moaners. | |||
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"How does it work in Germany ? They seem to get a lot of things right. I bet they don’t have to have signs in A&E stating that physical or verbal attacks on staff won’t be tolerated! " Well for one they have compulsory health insurance deducted at source | |||
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"How does it work in Germany ? They seem to get a lot of things right. I bet they don’t have to have signs in A&E stating that physical or verbal attacks on staff won’t be tolerated! " Well they aren't and the don't. It's an exaggerated misconception. Their hospitals are full their government are facing huge backlash from their people and other EU member states for not procuring sufficient vaccines for the EU vaccination programs, which they were in charge of. Their own vaccination program has come to a stop as a result, almost before it got going as have many other EU states. The availability of supplies for the vaccine are not there. There is currently a big investigation by the EU member states into why this has happened. Both Germany and Denmark have said "they have looked at the UKs change in direction on the second dose and will be following their example with delaying the second vacines and "..... They don't always get it right and this is a big one. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. Are you not forgetting how bad it gets every winter in the NHS at least this time wedont have people dieing in trolleys in the corridor as we did every winter....dont be quick to disregard the old ladies view" Huh? I wasn't disregarding them I was actually pointing them out and say 'Something to think about"' Read again  | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. " Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. " They have a healthy economy They have a good rship between workers and unions They are, stereotypically efficient. Their death rate Is a lot lower than ours. No one is perfect but we could learn a lot from them. | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. They have a healthy economy They have a good rship between workers and unions They are, stereotypically efficient. Their death rate Is a lot lower than ours. No one is perfect but we could learn a lot from them." Prove that. Or just talk in anecdotes. | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. They have a healthy economy They have a good rship between workers and unions They are, stereotypically efficient. Their death rate Is a lot lower than ours. No one is perfect but we could learn a lot from them. Prove that. Or just talk in anecdotes. " Prove what? | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. They have a healthy economy They have a good rship between workers and unions They are, stereotypically efficient. Their death rate Is a lot lower than ours. No one is perfect but we could learn a lot from them. Prove that. Or just talk in anecdotes. Prove what?" What you wrote about what the Germans are better at. | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. They have a healthy economy They have a good rship between workers and unions They are, stereotypically efficient. Their death rate Is a lot lower than ours. No one is perfect but we could learn a lot from them. Prove that. Or just talk in anecdotes. Prove what? What you wrote about what the Germans are better at. " https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/14/germany-economy-shrank-by-just-5-in-2020-amid-covid-19 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/24/germany-coronavirus-britain-health-spending-test-trace | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. " Have you experience of living there? I have. There's a lot they get right about quality of life. Let's not be so arrogant we can't learn from people who do some things better than us. | |||
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"For any change to happen for good no matter what it is, there needs to be a change at the grass roots level with people's attitudes otherwise nothing will change for good. We can throw more wasted money at something, can change this priority or another, we can change the politics which won't really change much for the good as they're all much the same at heart, just a different personal agenda, we can compare with other countries but they're all having much the same dialogue as ourselves. Our attitude towards others, how we genuinely show that in action, how put ourselves in the pecking order, how we argue for our rights over others, how we demonstrate our selfishness is what needs to change if we want to see the change that everyone is looking for here. And if we just say well it won't happen because they won't change, there is the problem staring you in your face.... attitude that selfish one that keeps popping up to say what others won't or aren't doing and is used as the excuse. Treat others as you would have them treat you has been generally lost in our society. If we're really honest with ourselves few of us live like that and so the changes we all crave for won't happen untill we start that process. Look at those who are happy and you'll find a person who is giving and helping others in whatever what and with the means they have, their outlook is different, they are different. They also draw to them others who think the same and end up unwittingly with the very thing that they are giving to others." This is possibly the most sensible thing I've seen on this subject. It's also transferable to a lot of other so thanks | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " And she would be right, the NHS is hugely wasteful of resources. It's not some kind of religion beyond criticism you know! Personally i think that if healthcare was funded by government insurance and carried out by private companies we would all get much better outcomes. Same goes for any government run institution. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. And she would be right, the NHS is hugely wasteful of resources. It's not some kind of religion beyond criticism you know! Personally i think that if healthcare was funded by government insurance and carried out by private companies we would all get much better outcomes. Same goes for any government run institution. " Yep It works a treat in America | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. And she would be right, the NHS is hugely wasteful of resources. It's not some kind of religion beyond criticism you know! Personally i think that if healthcare was funded by government insurance and carried out by private companies we would all get much better outcomes. Same goes for any government run institution. " You must be having a joke surely.. The American health care system is only available for the well off. And a huge proportion of Americans have low wages or no wages. The NHS is a wonderful invention and it could thrive if run correctly. Get some real business brains in to organise it instead of useless politicians. To think about going down the American health care system is just so wrong and irresponsible | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly " Yet it seems to have supported us through the pandemic | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly " Can you link us to these cuts you speak of | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? " Great comment and overwhelmed by ignorant people...yes im a nurse | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of " Pissing in the wind there. And that's the trouble with the debate. The answer is always more money....now what was the question.? | |||
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"Had many bad experiences with the NHS it’s not always good Maybe it needs to be looked after more? Great comment and overwhelmed by ignorant people...yes im a nurse " Yes 100 per cent needs to be looked after / respected more. By everyone. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. " So is this thread about the NHS being on its knees? I read the OP as the old woman blaming the NHS for people dying. Covid is killing them, not the NHS. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. So is this thread about the NHS being on its knees? I read the OP as the old woman blaming the NHS for people dying. Covid is killing them, not the NHS." The comment struck me that she was blaming the nhs for not being able to handle the crises | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of Pissing in the wind there. And that's the trouble with the debate. The answer is always more money....now what was the question.? " An aging and an increasing population..all these people saying throwing money at it isnt the solution..I'm still waiting to hear what Is. Do more work for less money..the tory way. | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of " https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/ | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/" https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of Pissing in the wind there. And that's the trouble with the debate. The answer is always more money....now what was the question.? An aging and an increasing population..all these people saying throwing money at it isnt the solution..I'm still waiting to hear what Is. Do more work for less money..the tory way." The answer... Well the start of the answer is to clarify what the nhs is and should deliver, how much it would cost to deliver it, and how much the public are prepared to pay. It may or not be underfunded but as there is nowhere near an understanding of what a successful NHS is... Its impossible to say. If people care for it so much they should respect it more and be more judicious with its use / abuse. And if after the clarification, we decide we need a daddy and mummy nhs service then yes, let's look at how we deliver that best and fund it appropriately. There is so much dogma in any debate a out the nhs it is quite hard to achieve anything. But wouldn't it be great if one day we were able to hold up the nhs as the gold standard for health care and as a consequence were nearer the top of the league tables of happy healthy lives. | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/ https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/" Last year the gmnt announced an additional £20.5 in real terms Phew. Thank God we have a gmnt who always deliver what they say https://fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/ | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/ https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ Last year the gmnt announced an additional £20.5 in real terms Phew. Thank God we have a gmnt who always deliver what they say https://fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/" I'm not gonna debate you on this Lionel, my link shows that there has been an increase in spend year on year. It's not about believing the government. It's simply about fact. | |||
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"Why is their pay frozen? How is the NHS funded? There was a public sector pay freeze for 6 years Its funded through taxes and increasing private funding." You obviously don't work in the NHS. It you did you could refer to the NHS staff council framework of 27 June 2018. Band 1 starting salaries will hVe increased by 16.89% over the period of the deal. My wife is in Band 3, up 7%. This was the result of a major structural review which means that it is much easier to move up through the bands. However the NHS must be one of the last bastions of seniority where time in role counts for more than performance. Let me know if you want the figures for any other bands/time in role. | |||
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"The germans get an awful lot right. Oh How so? That is just a Myth and always has been. Just like the VW adverts - that often rate as the worst reliable cars. If only everything wasn't like a VW. Also do a search in google for reviews that rate German healthcare it will really open your eyes. Often in many cases their hospitals rate lower than the UK and many other euro countries. Have you experience of living there? I have. There's a lot they get right about quality of life. Let's not be so arrogant we can't learn from people who do some things better than us. " Actually. Yes I have. And I have also lived in Spain. And France and Italy. And all of those countries have in many ways the same 'problems' we have. | |||
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"I am stood in a till queue and a lady in front of me is talking with what appears to be her Mum - she's, I guess at least in her 70's - The lady is talking about the death figures as she is reading her phone screen and says 'So many people dying in hospital' the older lady answers and says 'Well maybe the NHS just isn't as good as we all would like it to be dear'. So is this thread about the NHS being on its knees? I read the OP as the old woman blaming the NHS for people dying. Covid is killing them, not the NHS. The comment struck me that she was blaming the nhs for not being able to handle the crises " That's the way I read what the old woman was saying too. | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/ https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ Last year the gmnt announced an additional £20.5 in real terms Phew. Thank God we have a gmnt who always deliver what they say https://fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/ I'm not gonna debate you on this Lionel, my link shows that there has been an increase in spend year on year. It's not about believing the government. It's simply about fact. " And my link shows there were deep cuts from 2015 onwards. | |||
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"Why is their pay frozen? How is the NHS funded? There was a public sector pay freeze for 6 years Its funded through taxes and increasing private funding. You obviously don't work in the NHS. It you did you could refer to the NHS staff council framework of 27 June 2018. Band 1 starting salaries will hVe increased by 16.89% over the period of the deal. My wife is in Band 3, up 7%. This was the result of a major structural review which means that it is much easier to move up through the bands. However the NHS must be one of the last bastions of seniority where time in role counts for more than performance. Let me know if you want the figures for any other bands/time in role." I never said I did I said there was a public sector pay feeeze | |||
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"Why is their pay frozen? How is the NHS funded? There was a public sector pay freeze for 6 years Its funded through taxes and increasing private funding. You obviously don't work in the NHS. It you did you could refer to the NHS staff council framework of 27 June 2018. Band 1 starting salaries will hVe increased by 16.89% over the period of the deal. My wife is in Band 3, up 7%. This was the result of a major structural review which means that it is much easier to move up through the bands. However the NHS must be one of the last bastions of seniority where time in role counts for more than performance. Let me know if you want the figures for any other bands/time in role. I never said I did I said there was a public sector pay feeeze" I maybe wrong but if I remember correctly there was the 6 year pay freeze...the the deal the poster above mentions is the 16.89% over a 5 year period. 6 + 5 = 11 years...is that keeping up with inflation to get there? | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/ https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ Last year the gmnt announced an additional £20.5 in real terms Phew. Thank God we have a gmnt who always deliver what they say https://fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/ I'm not gonna debate you on this Lionel, my link shows that there has been an increase in spend year on year. It's not about believing the government. It's simply about fact. And my link shows there were deep cuts from 2015 onwards." Then we have to choose who to believe. A fact checking charity? Or a pressure group? I know who I'd choose to believe | |||
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"The NHS has been abused for years £1000s been wasted They buy expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and to many managers on silly amounts of money . With no social care it’s full of people that shouldn’t be their so it’s also like a care home..and the government cut funds each year...also people living longer So no matter how much money you throw at NHS will never work Smoothly Can you link us to these cuts you speak of https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/cuts-to-frontline-services/" What is claimed to be underfunding is completely different from cuts, No tory government has cut nhs funding. | |||
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