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Are Women the Fitter sex?

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By *ackformore100 OP   Man
over a year ago

Tin town

A fascinating if rather misnamed TV show on channel 4 earlier this week. I had no appreciation how much different immune system responses, t cell responses, responses to medication were by sex. Nor as a consequence how limited testing and approval processes are for some treatments. Recommended watching if like me you're a novice at this sort of stuff.

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By *hades55Man
over a year ago

Gtr manchester

I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder? "

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

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By *ackformore100 OP   Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder? "

Yeah funny you should say that... I thought she was in danger of losing credibility in the middle of it when she started playing the "ist" card a little to much. But doesn't detract from the science which was interesting.

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By *ackformore100 OP   Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip."

And there you go.... Which if true... Is truly astonishing in the 21st century. Mind blowing really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if woman are generally fitter AND live longer, should they retire later in life than men? Thus reducing the male retirement age to something more appropriate, shall we say 52?

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By *ackformore100 OP   Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"So if woman are generally fitter AND live longer, should they retire later in life than men? Thus reducing the male retirement age to something more appropriate, shall we say 52? "

Think you're onto something there.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

[Removed by poster at 15/01/21 15:59:36]

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"So if woman are generally fitter AND live longer, should they retire later in life than men? Thus reducing the male retirement age to something more appropriate, shall we say 52? "

We may be fitter but boy, do we have to put up with some shit, too much of it from men! We deserve an earlier retirement just for that, 40

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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

And there you go.... Which if true... Is truly astonishing in the 21st century. Mind blowing really. "

Men lag way behind women in life expectancy. Always have. Women generally have more routine testing and screening then men . I didn't see this particular programme and no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective?

The life expectancy difference wouldn't be tolerated if it was reversed.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

And there you go.... Which if true... Is truly astonishing in the 21st century. Mind blowing really.

Men lag way behind women in life expectancy. Always have. Women generally have more routine testing and screening then men . I didn't see this particular programme and no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective?

The life expectancy difference wouldn't be tolerated if it was reversed. "

Male life expectancy is lower because men are at greater risk of cardiovascular disease, cancers (various) and are, on average, more likely to die from suicide, in road traffic accidents and are employed (on average) in more physical occupations that might involve risks to health.

All of the above contribute to the earlier life expectancy in men.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester


" no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective? "

They certainly do.

I've experienced it as a man, and know several women who have experienced themselves.

All of the women I mention are highly-educated (Law / Medicine / Social Healthcare / Advertising), well read and intelligent women.

All of them have life-long debilitating conditions, and without exception they have all had to fight to be taken seriously with their assorted conditions, and I'm ashamed to say, by male doctors (and one or two female doctors two).

My experience from a male perspective when I went for the snip and was in the consulting room with my wife...

Dr "Are you sure ?", looking at me.

Me "Yes".

Dr "Alright then".

He didn't once look at her. Or ask "Are you both sure".

That's male privilege right there.

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By *ackformore100 OP   Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

And there you go.... Which if true... Is truly astonishing in the 21st century. Mind blowing really.

Men lag way behind women in life expectancy. Always have. Women generally have more routine testing and screening then men . I didn't see this particular programme and no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective?

The life expectancy difference wouldn't be tolerated if it was reversed.

Male life expectancy is lower because men are at greater risk of cardiovascular disease, cancers (various) and are, on average, more likely to die from suicide, in road traffic accidents and are employed (on average) in more physical occupations that might involve risks to health.

All of the above contribute to the earlier life expectancy in men."

Some good points, none of which were mentioned on the show... My take away from the program was more to do with drug development and approval processes which she professed to be unisex, when in many cases drugs work differently or sometimes not at all depending on your sex.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If anyone is interested in hearing some of the issues with women's healthcare (in general, rather than just relating the drugs):

The origins of the words "hysteria" and "hysterectomy": https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2012/mar/08/mind-your-language-feminisation-madness

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180523-how-gender-bias-affects-your-healthcare

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/how-sexist-stereotypes-mean-doctors-ignore-women-s-pain-a7157931.html

Obviously I cannot provide links to the scientific research, but these articles include those references for interested parties to follow.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

And there you go.... Which if true... Is truly astonishing in the 21st century. Mind blowing really.

Men lag way behind women in life expectancy. Always have. Women generally have more routine testing and screening then men . I didn't see this particular programme and no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective?

The life expectancy difference wouldn't be tolerated if it was reversed.

Male life expectancy is lower because men are at greater risk of cardiovascular disease, cancers (various) and are, on average, more likely to die from suicide, in road traffic accidents and are employed (on average) in more physical occupations that might involve risks to health.

All of the above contribute to the earlier life expectancy in men.

Some good points, none of which were mentioned on the show... My take away from the program was more to do with drug development and approval processes which she professed to be unisex, when in many cases drugs work differently or sometimes not at all depending on your sex. "

In the past (and to some extent nowadays still), drugs trials, especially early stage ones, exclude all women. So that means meds are not being tested or have not been tested on women and have gained approval with sometimes a 100% male cohort of study participants. Women are still described as a "special population" when designing studies.

Even when women ARE included in studies, the authors rarely publish data broken down by sex. So, if, for example, the men respond very well to a drug, but the women respond less well, the fact there's very few women will mean that the "dilution" of the male very high results will be minimal and the drug may be declared suitable.

Also this means side effects that are more common in women (due to women having greater body fat % where many drugs accumulate) are under represented or not represented at all. This means some serious side effects may only become obvious after a drug is approved and hits the market, but we go back to the phenomenon of women's pain and other complaints being dismissed and put down to emotions (hysteria).

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip."

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" no doubt there are cases that need to be investigated but really ? Men get preferential treatment from a medical perspective?

They certainly do.

I've experienced it as a man, and know several women who have experienced themselves.

All of the women I mention are highly-educated (Law / Medicine / Social Healthcare / Advertising), well read and intelligent women.

All of them have life-long debilitating conditions, and without exception they have all had to fight to be taken seriously with their assorted conditions, and I'm ashamed to say, by male doctors (and one or two female doctors two).

My experience from a male perspective when I went for the snip and was in the consulting room with my wife...

Dr "Are you sure ?", looking at me.

Me "Yes".

Dr "Alright then".

He didn't once look at her. Or ask "Are you both sure".

That's male privilege right there.

"

By law, the doctor has to ask the patient for consent for the procedure, not a relative, unless the patient is unable to answer for themselves and they have legal permission to do so.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way."

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way.

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke "

That is awful but I suspect not uncommon. Glad you, finally, got sorted.

If men could also give birth, the world would be a very different place.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way.

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke

That is awful but I suspect not uncommon. Glad you, finally, got sorted.

If men could also give birth, the world would be a very different place. "

Most of it's sorted, but my uterus is still endeavouring to head for the exit, hence the silicone ring supporting it. My disability meant I couldn't have my uterus resuspended and I didn't want a hysterectomy (I hate that word )

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way.

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke

That is awful but I suspect not uncommon. Glad you, finally, got sorted.

If men could also give birth, the world would be a very different place.

Most of it's sorted, but my uterus is still endeavouring to head for the exit, hence the silicone ring supporting it. My disability meant I couldn't have my uterus resuspended and I didn't want a hysterectomy (I hate that word )"

Sorry, to hear that. Did you just not want the operation?

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By *uri00620Woman
over a year ago

Croydon

This, 12 years before diagnosis for endometriosis. From the age of 11 going to the doctor routinely. Got told to invest in a hot water bottle even though I missed a week of school a month. That's it. At 16, in the doctors with my dad I got told having a baby would help or a hysterectomy. He was horrified - and probably very relieved I didn't go out straight away and do the former!


"I watched this programme most of it was quite good and informative, but I got the impression that the doctor presenting it has a massive chip of her shoulder?

She's right to. Women receive sub standard medical care as a consequence of the issues discussed and are routinely dismissed as "hysterical" when it comes to managing pain, for example. Women's pain is seen by doctors as having an emotional origin whereas men's more likely to be organic disease.

Access to gynaecological treatment, treatment of post birth injuries and trauma is inadequate. Etc.

She SHOULD have a huge chip.

Sadly, even in the 21st century this is very true.

Endometriosis is an excellent example. Surprisingly common and excruciatingly painful, yet often misdiagnosed or dismissed for years.

I can guarantee that if men suffered similar issues, they would not be dismissed in the same way."

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke

That is awful but I suspect not uncommon. Glad you, finally, got sorted.

If men could also give birth, the world would be a very different place.

Most of it's sorted, but my uterus is still endeavouring to head for the exit, hence the silicone ring supporting it. My disability meant I couldn't have my uterus resuspended and I didn't want a hysterectomy (I hate that word )

Sorry, to hear that. Did you just not want the operation?"

I didn't want to risk early menopause. Even if the ovaries are left, they can fail and 35 is too early, I'd need HRT etc. I wanted the resuspension done but the doc said no. He thought he might further injure my nerves (already injured). So, I just had the vaginal mending done and left the rest with the silicone

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"

I won't go into the 17 YEARS it took for my post birth injuries to be repaired, but suffice to say if men had to hold up their internal organs with silicone rings (still in situ) or manually evacuate faeces from their bottom (thankfully fixed now), then they would NOT wait 17 years!

I have a lovely mended vag now, but it was broken for a very, very long time. And I was 16 when it broke

That is awful but I suspect not uncommon. Glad you, finally, got sorted.

If men could also give birth, the world would be a very different place.

Most of it's sorted, but my uterus is still endeavouring to head for the exit, hence the silicone ring supporting it. My disability meant I couldn't have my uterus resuspended and I didn't want a hysterectomy (I hate that word )

Sorry, to hear that. Did you just not want the operation?

I didn't want to risk early menopause. Even if the ovaries are left, they can fail and 35 is too early, I'd need HRT etc. I wanted the resuspension done but the doc said no. He thought he might further injure my nerves (already injured). So, I just had the vaginal mending done and left the rest with the silicone "

Makes sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After 4 children I'd decided I'd had enough and opted to be sterilised. I was told I required my husbands permission, I was shocked tbh.

My husband was in agreement, we'd obviously discussed and decided together but to be told that at the time left me speechless.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men have tended not to seek medical opinion until the last moment, thinking they will get over it or they have to “man up”.

They also have tended to be less comfortable talking to doctors especially if its of a personal nature.

It’s getting less of a problem as younger men do seem to have less hang ups than the older generations.

The death age gap between genders is starting to narrow as old attitudes also die.

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

If you need your female bits repaired try and make sure they explore every option before they use the dreaded mesh, many women have found parts of their bodies unusable after the fitment of the mesh and some with far worse complications than that ie constant pain.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"If you need your female bits repaired try and make sure they explore every option before they use the dreaded mesh, many women have found parts of their bodies unusable after the fitment of the mesh and some with far worse complications than that ie constant pain. "

Don't worry, my lady bits contain no mesh. It was repaired using my own tissue.

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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Men have tended not to seek medical opinion until the last moment, thinking they will get over it or they have to “man up”.

They also have tended to be less comfortable talking to doctors especially if its of a personal nature.

It’s getting less of a problem as younger men do seem to have less hang ups than the older generations.

The death age gap between genders is starting to narrow as old attitudes also die."

Men also get fobbed off. Try asking for a PSA test. You will be told to go away until you have symptoms. Its too late by then.

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