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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them." ??? Mmmmm Who spends MILLIONS building a superhospital and then after its open ask a pretty important question like..."do we have enough staff" | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. ??? Mmmmm Who spends MILLIONS building a superhospital and then after its open ask a pretty important question like..."do we have enough staff"" That'll be politicians | |||
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"I was sent a video of somebody standing where the Nightingale hospital was near the Excel and apparently, it's been taken down. According to the video it's dismantled and gone. Whether that's true or not I don't know as I haven't visited the place myself. It is strange if it is gone though although I do understand they didn't have the staff to run it as initially intended." The nightingale hospital was built inside the excel using the vast open space they normally use for events. It is correct though the equipment has been removed late June / July | |||
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"Exeter Nightingale is in current use. " Yes, staff have gone from the RD&E and NDDH, leaving shortages! | |||
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"I was sent a video of somebody standing where the Nightingale hospital was near the Excel and apparently, it's been taken down. According to the video it's dismantled and gone. Whether that's true or not I don't know as I haven't visited the place myself. It is strange if it is gone though although I do understand they didn't have the staff to run it as initially intended." Love to know how much we paid Abu Dhabi to rent it off them | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them." I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals. | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals." God that’s a good idea ,you will never get a job in the government | |||
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"Well, being of a cynical persuasion, I'd say they were either never operational in the first place, or else they've been taken out of use so that the regular hospitals get overrun with Covid cases and the government can then use that as a stick to berate us with and force ever stricter lockdown restrictions on us. How's that for starters? ". How about by “following the science” they thought they had the virus under control and wouldn’t need them. Bit too obvious an answer for people with nothing better to do than waste time dreaming up conspiracy theories. But it’s my best guess. | |||
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"Well, being of a cynical persuasion, I'd say they were either never operational in the first place, or else they've been taken out of use so that the regular hospitals get overrun with Covid cases and the government can then use that as a stick to berate us with and force ever stricter lockdown restrictions on us. How's that for starters? . How about by “following the science” they thought they had the virus under control and wouldn’t need them. Bit too obvious an answer for people with nothing better to do than waste time dreaming up conspiracy theories. But it’s my best guess. "What actually qualifies as conspiracy theory? Seems to me that anyone who has done their own research outside of BBC, Sky or Google is branded a nutjob. Also, where is the science that has been followed? Despite many requests from independent agencies, the science has never been released. The one occassionn that whitty and co tried it was laughed out of reality, eventually they conceded they'd got it monstrously wrong as well. | |||
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"I feel often the problem that hospitals face, is is a lack of staff rather than a lack of space, which I believe was a similar problem faced by the Nightingales." I know the vaccination program will need around 30k volunteers to operate at full strength. That said, the Government have messed up again; logistics and IT systems | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals." The nightingales (well the one in London, don’t know about the others) was a place for those already receiving ventilated ICU treatment to be transferred to. So dedicated IC care takes a lot longer than a few months. It had the capacity for 80 wards with 42 beds, to staff one ward 200 people were needed, from doctors, nurses, cleaners, etc, the first two were taken from local hospitals. It used one ward during its time in situ. | |||
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"Well, being of a cynical persuasion, I'd say they were either never operational in the first place, or else they've been taken out of use so that the regular hospitals get overrun with Covid cases and the government can then use that as a stick to berate us with and force ever stricter lockdown restrictions on us. I said “they thought” by following the science. Just my view on why they closed them How's that for starters? . How about by “following the science” they thought they had the virus under control and wouldn’t need them. Bit too obvious an answer for people with nothing better to do than waste time dreaming up conspiracy theories. But it’s my best guess.
What actually qualifies as conspiracy theory? Seems to me that anyone who has done their own research outside of BBC, Sky or Google is branded a nutjob.
Also, where is the science that has been followed? Despite many requests from independent agencies, the science has never been released. The one occassionn that whitty and co tried it was laughed out of reality, eventually they conceded they'd got it monstrously wrong as well. " | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals." I’m afraid your view of the level of care serious Covid cases take to treat is a little naive. Wether ventilated or CPAP you are talking about intensive care, 1-1 monitoring ideally and years of study and experience. It’s taken about 9 months to get our house keeping teams as thorough and as safe as they need to be to adapt to a covid-19 red zone... training new care staff is almost an impossibility. Education is severely hampered in any area but you also have the added issue of teams who are stretched to their limits, our nurses are treating on a 1-3 basis currently (300% beyond their recommended care ratio), both our consultants have taken less than 10 days off since March... you can’t ask these people to shadow trainees, they are beyond their limit as it stands. | |||
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"The nightingales (well the one in London, don’t know about the others) was a place for those already receiving ventilated ICU treatment to be transferred to. So dedicated IC care takes a lot longer than a few months. It had the capacity for 80 wards with 42 beds, to staff one ward 200 people were needed, from doctors, nurses, cleaners, etc, the first two were taken from local hospitals. It used one ward during its time in situ. " Simple fact: you cannot logistically transfer ventilated patients in numbers. You’d need a senior nurse, a consultant and an anaesthetist to cover the transit. That was never the plan for London or indeed any of the other Nightingales. They where and still are field hospitals in a technical sense. You’re also incorrect about London’s usage, they partially opened 4 wards during their short opening. As with the others the wards or sections had defined uses for patients and their level of severity. Staffing was and remains the issue, those nightingales offering ventilation where a serious oversight regarding available manpower. Others used as step down facilities had a role to play but the ability to clinically staff them now is virtually non existent as the health service in general is fully committed to maintaining all services. If we are honest the nightingales where in part a PR stunts, Britain like China can build a hospital in 6 days... but had we have tipped over the edge in capacity (and we have been dangerously close to that on numerous occasions) then it would have offered beds, a basic level of care and helped to avoid people dying in the streets or hospital car parks etc. The seriously ill could have received oxygen, a hand to hold and some hope rather then none. | |||
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" Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals." Where did you get that stat from? Lol The only studies available are based on transmission whilst in care or working in the environment... the very worst hit areas have had around 10% of their covid patients transferred from non covid wards within the hospital. Given that it’s about 1% of the infected population that requires hospital care than means even if every trust in the U.K. was suffering a major outbreak it would account for... 0.1% of infections. That ‘never occurred’ distant scenario is still a fkn country mile from your 20%, why people peddle such crazy shit I do not know. | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals. I’m afraid your view of the level of care serious Covid cases take to treat is a little naive. Wether ventilated or CPAP you are talking about intensive care, 1-1 monitoring ideally and years of study and experience. It’s taken about 9 months to get our house keeping teams as thorough and as safe as they need to be to adapt to a covid-19 red zone... training new care staff is almost an impossibility. Education is severely hampered in any area but you also have the added issue of teams who are stretched to their limits, our nurses are treating on a 1-3 basis currently (300% beyond their recommended care ratio), both our consultants have taken less than 10 days off since March... you can’t ask these people to shadow trainees, they are beyond their limit as it stands. " That's interesting reading, thank you for a detailed and intelligent reasoning. Could training not be done in a classroom environment? | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals." I thought it would be achievable to train up people to handle COVID , but as we know the majority that require hospital treatment have serious underlying health issues. Suddenly, not so easy. | |||
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" Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals. Where did you get that stat from? Lol The only studies available are based on transmission whilst in care or working in the environment... the very worst hit areas have had around 10% of their covid patients transferred from non covid wards within the hospital. Given that it’s about 1% of the infected population that requires hospital care than means even if every trust in the U.K. was suffering a major outbreak it would account for... 0.1% of infections. That ‘never occurred’ distant scenario is still a fkn country mile from your 20%, why people peddle such crazy shit I do not know. " Article on Nuffield Trust website, quoted: " During the first wave, it was estimated that 20% of hospital cases were acquired in hospital – defined as cases diagnosed more than a week after admission. A similar proportion of hospital cases were acquired in hospital between 1 September and 14 November: the proportion has grown with the number of cases, from 10% in September to 19% in the first two weeks of November". --- I.do not see why this should be discounted as it relies on the same logic as the recording of covid co-morbidities. | |||
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"Heard on the news that they haven't got enough staff to man them. I know I shouldn't bring this up again but I never could see any reason why we haven't spent the last 9 months training up people in the basics of Covid and health care and moving as many covid patients as possible into the Nightingales. Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals. I thought it would be achievable to train up people to handle COVID , but as we know the majority that require hospital treatment have serious underlying health issues. Suddenly, not so easy." it said on the news about the training and equipment to move the obese people as the patients are likely to be over weight | |||
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" Given that something like a fifth of all covid transmissions are linked to hospitals. Where did you get that stat from? Lol The only studies available are based on transmission whilst in care or working in the environment... the very worst hit areas have had around 10% of their covid patients transferred from non covid wards within the hospital. Given that it’s about 1% of the infected population that requires hospital care than means even if every trust in the U.K. was suffering a major outbreak it would account for... 0.1% of infections. That ‘never occurred’ distant scenario is still a fkn country mile from your 20%, why people peddle such crazy shit I do not know. Article on Nuffield Trust website, quoted: " During the first wave, it was estimated that 20% of hospital cases were acquired in hospital – defined as cases diagnosed more than a week after admission. A similar proportion of hospital cases were acquired in hospital between 1 September and 14 November: the proportion has grown with the number of cases, from 10% in September to 19% in the first two weeks of November". --- I.do not see why this should be discounted as it relies on the same logic as the recording of covid co-morbidities. " For the fact it quotes Hospitalisations... eg patients in hospital aquire covid whilst being hospitalised for another issue. Those Hospitalised accounts for less than 1% of the infected though. The figures shouldn’t be discounted, they for many people myself included form a central part of my job. It’s kind of obvious though, sick people at at risk of covid... for many of the figures you mention though it’s not covid that kept them in hospital it’s their existing condition. What however you shouldn’t do is present them incorrectly... that in no way accounts for 5% of the total population infected which is actually what you said. Your statement just feeds the myth that a visit to hospital results in infection, look at those figures, less than 1 in 30,000 patients is infected. Your fictional 5% is the myth that has kept people away from ED’s, screening tests etc... your feeding a very damaging and harmful lie to be blunt. | |||
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"That's interesting reading, thank you for a detailed and intelligent reasoning. Could training not be done in a classroom environment?" We continue to support the healthcare study courses, whether that be for junior doctors, nurses or hca’s. We have trainees amongst our team but as with any of these roles mentoring and hands on experience is extremely important. A view where we increase numbers or fast track students is not feasible. There’s 2 key problems really, time our senior staff can give within their working day when they are needed to make critical interactions for the patient numbers we have. But, also environment. Our workspace is in reality extremely dangerous. Our patients because they are amongst the most accuse sufferers have huge viral load. That means as an infection risk we are massively more exposed, should we be infected our probability of needing medical care also increases. We’ve temporarily lost dozens of staff this year, we have 5 members who have had to leave the team due to the long term effect of the virus and sadly we saw one of our senior nurses pass away under her own teams care last month. Bringing a greater volume of inexperienced staff into the red zone is a danger to themselves, their colleagues, the patients and patients families. We cater for them but it’s really hard, we are miles away from the ideal scenario we’d want to give new recruits to ICU. | |||
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"That's interesting reading, thank you for a detailed and intelligent reasoning. Could training not be done in a classroom environment? We continue to support the healthcare study courses, whether that be for junior doctors, nurses or hca’s. We have trainees amongst our team but as with any of these roles mentoring and hands on experience is extremely important. A view where we increase numbers or fast track students is not feasible. There’s 2 key problems really, time our senior staff can give within their working day when they are needed to make critical interactions for the patient numbers we have. But, also environment. Our workspace is in reality extremely dangerous. Our patients because they are amongst the most accuse sufferers have huge viral load. That means as an infection risk we are massively more exposed, should we be infected our probability of needing medical care also increases. We’ve temporarily lost dozens of staff this year, we have 5 members who have had to leave the team due to the long term effect of the virus and sadly we saw one of our senior nurses pass away under her own teams care last month. Bringing a greater volume of inexperienced staff into the red zone is a danger to themselves, their colleagues, the patients and patients families. We cater for them but it’s really hard, we are miles away from the ideal scenario we’d want to give new recruits to ICU. " Again, thank you for such a detailed, informative and interesting answer. And I am sorry to hear about your Senior Nurse. | |||
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"Manchester very much in use,it was moth balled for a few months but good to see it back up working and undertakers getting plenty of work from them.....yes im being sarcastic because its not nice" Indeed it is, it’s not treating covid or infact any terminal patients though? | |||
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"Manchester very much in use,it was moth balled for a few months but good to see it back up working and undertakers getting plenty of work from them.....yes im being sarcastic because its not nice Indeed it is, it’s not treating covid or infact any terminal patients though?" Um if you get taken to hospital and test positive for covid and there take you there.....I work as a chef there and its busy | |||
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"Manchester very much in use,it was moth balled for a few months but good to see it back up working and undertakers getting plenty of work from them.....yes im being sarcastic because its not nice Indeed it is, it’s not treating covid or infact any terminal patients though? Um if you get taken to hospital and test positive for covid and there take you there.....I work as a chef there and its busy" I’m well aware of the Nightingale, I worked there from its launch to hibernation whilst it was a covid hospital. I still work within MUHT, The Nightingale has been repurposed to take none covid, low dependency patients from across the regions trusts in an effort to give more space for treating covid within the main ICU’s. | |||
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