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"It would appear that people’s opinion on this are formed through confirmation bias and argument through authority. In other words, their minds are already made up. They live in an echo chamber and only relate and communicate with others on a similar wavelength. Most people seem to fall into one of two camps. The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. As long as people rely on social media for their information, then they’re doomed. They should read more. Question data and opinions. Challenge others views. More importantly, challenge you’re own. " Exactly this there seems to no middle ground anymore. You are either a covid idiot or someone who swallows every single thing they are fed by the authorities. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. " I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with." I agree out in the real world most are somewhere in the middle ground. But in these forums it's either one or the other. That's how it seems anyway | |||
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"It would appear that people’s opinion on this are formed through confirmation bias and argument through authority. In other words, their minds are already made up. They live in an echo chamber and only relate and communicate with others on a similar wavelength. Most people seem to fall into one of two camps. The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. As long as people rely on social media for their information, then they’re doomed. They should read more. Question data and opinions. Challenge others views. More importantly, challenge you’re own. " You make great points...especially our desire to read and comprehend opinions that resonate with our own and our reluctance to open our minds to ideas that challenge our prejudices. As for the op. If the stats you quote are true, it's sometimes useful to know the most likely demographic of victims. It just depends what argument they are used to support. Often times it seems the given answer is the same regardless of the question being asked. | |||
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"It would appear that people’s opinion on this are formed through confirmation bias and argument through authority. In other words, their minds are already made up. They live in an echo chamber and only relate and communicate with others on a similar wavelength. Most people seem to fall into one of two camps. The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. As long as people rely on social media for their information, then they’re doomed. They should read more. Question data and opinions. Challenge others views. More importantly, challenge you’re own. Exactly this there seems to no middle ground anymore. You are either a covid idiot or someone who swallows every single thing they are fed by the authorities. " The covidiots are the ones believing every single word said by the authorities. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with." I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it." I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc." Wouldn’t have made a slight difference who was in charge it would have been the same outcome. All different types of government across the world have had the same results. The same advisors would have still advised. Everyone should just follow the rules regardless of what they are so we can move on with our lives. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. Wouldn’t have made a slight difference who was in charge it would have been the same outcome. All different types of government across the world have had the same results. The same advisors would have still advised. Everyone should just follow the rules regardless of what they are so we can move on with our lives. " Different governments have had wildly different results. I am following or exceeding the rules, but I'm doing so based on my own understanding, not what the clowns in Westminster say. | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc." Same for us. I support all the measures even masks although I think way to many people arent using then to the required hygiene standards and some have a dirty mask in their pocket for weeks on end making using it more of a risk. I missed my 1st child's birth to adhere to 14 days isolation and K was without me for her last 10 days of pregnancy and birth. I also believe lockdowns have caused incredible damaged to people's mental health, missed cancer treatment like my Dads case and the impact to young people's education, future and careers has been huge, most big companies I work with let go the apprentice's and young people first sadly. However it's clear in parts of the country at least some lockdown levels were needed to protect the nhs. I don't believe it was needed as a blanket approach everywhere all at once though. Finally the way this goverment has contracted out billions to friends, colleagues and family e.g. serco track and trace is bordering on criminal. The mistakes made by the goverment are simply to many to list. Before you go on about hind sight so many other countries handled the pandemic better the Uk. Even worse is our goverment fails to learn from its mistakes, The fact people like Andy Burham, Marcus Rashford have had to fight for a fair and decent level of support shows what shite hawks they are. People forget that the benefit cuts in welfare since 2010 done in the name of reducing UK debt and austerity was a deguise to drive home there ideological agendas. The best bit is the cuts never saved any money. In fact its cost more! Only this morning I was speaking to a support agency who said tribunals for sick claims now have an 18 month wait. Once 80% are overturned by the panel of a legal solicitor, judge and medical professional the money is then back dated. Within 2 weeks of that they get another invite to medical and the expensive roller coaster starts again. The costs involved now are insane. Just paying all the sick claims applied for would actual save money now. Sadly Joe bloggs believed the Sun newspaper and similar and they think the debt was been paid off by the Tory cuts. Rather than the truth i.e. the cuts had nothing to do with paying off the national debt and everything to do with the Torys ideology. Yet the very people who the forts have such sustain for voted them in. Seriously I know people on sick benefits going through tribunals who won't have a bad word said about the tories. It beggars belief. Let's hope people remember come the next general election. KJ | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. Same for us. I support all the measures even masks although I think way to many people arent using then to the required hygiene standards and some have a dirty mask in their pocket for weeks on end making using it more of a risk. I missed my 1st child's birth to adhere to 14 days isolation and K was without me for her last 10 days of pregnancy and birth. I also believe lockdowns have caused incredible damaged to people's mental health, missed cancer treatment like my Dads case and the impact to young people's education, future and careers has been huge, most big companies I work with let go the apprentice's and young people first sadly. However it's clear in parts of the country at least some lockdown levels were needed to protect the nhs. I don't believe it was needed as a blanket approach everywhere all at once though. Finally the way this goverment has contracted out billions to friends, colleagues and family e.g. serco track and trace is bordering on criminal. The mistakes made by the goverment are simply to many to list. Before you go on about hind sight so many other countries handled the pandemic better the Uk. Even worse is our goverment fails to learn from its mistakes, The fact people like Andy Burham, Marcus Rashford have had to fight for a fair and decent level of support shows what shite hawks they are. People forget that the benefit cuts in welfare since 2010 done in the name of reducing UK debt and austerity was a deguise to drive home there ideological agendas. The best bit is the cuts never saved any money. In fact its cost more! Only this morning I was speaking to a support agency who said tribunals for sick claims now have an 18 month wait. Once 80% are overturned by the panel of a legal solicitor, judge and medical professional the money is then back dated. Within 2 weeks of that they get another invite to medical and the expensive roller coaster starts again. The costs involved now are insane. Just paying all the sick claims applied for would actual save money now. Sadly Joe bloggs believed the Sun newspaper and similar and they think the debt was been paid off by the Tory cuts. Rather than the truth i.e. the cuts had nothing to do with paying off the national debt and everything to do with the Torys ideology. Yet the very people who the forts have such sustain for voted them in. Seriously I know people on sick benefits going through tribunals who won't have a bad word said about the tories. It beggars belief. Let's hope people remember come the next general election. KJ " *Standing ovation* | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. Same for us. I support all the measures even masks although I think way to many people arent using then to the required hygiene standards and some have a dirty mask in their pocket for weeks on end making using it more of a risk. I missed my 1st child's birth to adhere to 14 days isolation and K was without me for her last 10 days of pregnancy and birth. I also believe lockdowns have caused incredible damaged to people's mental health, missed cancer treatment like my Dads case and the impact to young people's education, future and careers has been huge, most big companies I work with let go the apprentice's and young people first sadly. However it's clear in parts of the country at least some lockdown levels were needed to protect the nhs. I don't believe it was needed as a blanket approach everywhere all at once though. Finally the way this goverment has contracted out billions to friends, colleagues and family e.g. serco track and trace is bordering on criminal. The mistakes made by the goverment are simply to many to list. Before you go on about hind sight so many other countries handled the pandemic better the Uk. Even worse is our goverment fails to learn from its mistakes, The fact people like Andy Burham, Marcus Rashford have had to fight for a fair and decent level of support shows what shite hawks they are. People forget that the benefit cuts in welfare since 2010 done in the name of reducing UK debt and austerity was a deguise to drive home there ideological agendas. The best bit is the cuts never saved any money. In fact its cost more! Only this morning I was speaking to a support agency who said tribunals for sick claims now have an 18 month wait. Once 80% are overturned by the panel of a legal solicitor, judge and medical professional the money is then back dated. Within 2 weeks of that they get another invite to medical and the expensive roller coaster starts again. The costs involved now are insane. Just paying all the sick claims applied for would actual save money now. Sadly Joe bloggs believed the Sun newspaper and similar and they think the debt was been paid off by the Tory cuts. Rather than the truth i.e. the cuts had nothing to do with paying off the national debt and everything to do with the Torys ideology. Yet the very people who the forts have such sustain for voted them in. Seriously I know people on sick benefits going through tribunals who won't have a bad word said about the tories. It beggars belief. Let's hope people remember come the next general election. KJ *Standing ovation*" Well said spot on  | |||
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"Exactly this there seems to no middle ground anymore. You are either a covid idiot or someone who swallows every single thing they are fed by the authorities. " It sounds exactly the same synopsis used for Pro/Anti Brexit | |||
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" The David Icke brigade or the ones who believe every word uttered by SAGE and the government. I would strongly disagree with this. Although i know people of both these extremes the majority of people i speak to fall somewhere in the middle. Basically fully believe Corona is real but have serious issues with the way its being delt with. I can see why people think I somehow support Johnson's and his corrupt cronies when I support wearing masks and not letting people die, but it's so frustrating when I'm accused of it. I think it's somewhere between frustrating and hilarious. I'm no Tory, I think the handling of this has been a clusterfuck. I also take very little seriously from the mainstream media. ... I glance at the news to get a sense of what the law and my obligations are, and find reputable scientists. From the reputable scientists, I get the information to support social distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. Same for us. I support all the measures even masks although I think way to many people arent using then to the required hygiene standards and some have a dirty mask in their pocket for weeks on end making using it more of a risk. I missed my 1st child's birth to adhere to 14 days isolation and K was without me for her last 10 days of pregnancy and birth. I also believe lockdowns have caused incredible damaged to people's mental health, missed cancer treatment like my Dads case and the impact to young people's education, future and careers has been huge, most big companies I work with let go the apprentice's and young people first sadly. However it's clear in parts of the country at least some lockdown levels were needed to protect the nhs. I don't believe it was needed as a blanket approach everywhere all at once though. Finally the way this goverment has contracted out billions to friends, colleagues and family e.g. serco track and trace is bordering on criminal. The mistakes made by the goverment are simply to many to list. Before you go on about hind sight so many other countries handled the pandemic better the Uk. Even worse is our goverment fails to learn from its mistakes, The fact people like Andy Burham, Marcus Rashford have had to fight for a fair and decent level of support shows what shite hawks they are. People forget that the benefit cuts in welfare since 2010 done in the name of reducing UK debt and austerity was a deguise to drive home there ideological agendas. The best bit is the cuts never saved any money. In fact its cost more! Only this morning I was speaking to a support agency who said tribunals for sick claims now have an 18 month wait. Once 80% are overturned by the panel of a legal solicitor, judge and medical professional the money is then back dated. Within 2 weeks of that they get another invite to medical and the expensive roller coaster starts again. The costs involved now are insane. Just paying all the sick claims applied for would actual save money now. Sadly Joe bloggs believed the Sun newspaper and similar and they think the debt was been paid off by the Tory cuts. Rather than the truth i.e. the cuts had nothing to do with paying off the national debt and everything to do with the Torys ideology. Yet the very people who the forts have such sustain for voted them in. Seriously I know people on sick benefits going through tribunals who won't have a bad word said about the tories. It beggars belief. Let's hope people remember come the next general election. KJ *Standing ovation*" Thank you 
After reading the forums and some of the views held by some many who clearly bought into the lies and propaganda I just had to get it off my chest.
When will people learn?
The best bit is even though I hail from a council estate and grew up with nothing these days me and K would be classed as a typical middle class household / earners. I actually do ok under a Conservative goverment if all I cared about was me.
What I can't get my head around is the very people who the tories consider to be scum seem to support them.
On my last project the amount of people on long term benefits been sanctioned over and over, under 35 and forced into bedsits due to housing cuts, facing eviction due to bedroom tax debt, long term sick claiments stripped of their incapcity benefit and thrust into the world of a job seeker and so on. Yet so many of them hated labour and backed the Tories....simply incredible.
They couldnt connect the dots between the nightmares that they are now living and the Tory goverment who were causing it. So many would say I'm going through this because the labour goverment ran up all the debt. Seriously it was all Tony Blair and Gordon Browns fault!
KJ | |||
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" Thank you
After reading the forums and some of the views held by some many who clearly bought into the lies and propaganda I just had to get it off my chest.
When will people learn?
The best bit is even though I hail from a council estate and grew up with nothing these days me and K would be classed as a typical middle class household / earners. I actually do ok under a Conservative goverment if all I cared about was me.
What I can't get my head around is the very people who the tories consider to be scum seem to support them.
On my last project the amount of people on long term benefits been sanctioned over and over, under 35 and forced into bedsits due to housing cuts, facing eviction due to bedroom tax debt, long term sick claiments stripped of their incapcity benefit and thrust into the world of a job seeker and so on. Yet so many of them hated labour and backed the Tories....simply incredible.
They couldnt connect the dots between the nightmares that they are now living and the Tory goverment who were causing it. So many would say I'm going through this because the labour goverment ran up all the debt. Seriously it was all Tony Blair and Gordon Browns fault!
KJ"I grew up middle class, I'm middle class. I'm fine. Like you, it's not me I'm worried about. But regardless of my interests or who I or anyone else votes for - all of this seems to me about information and misinformation. How do you know who to trust and why? There seems to be a false dichotomy between "trust authority" and "don't trust authority". Nonsense. If the doctor says I need medicine, I take medicine. If medical experts say that wearing masks cuts transmission, I'll wear the mask. If scientists show that long term neurological effects can arise from a disease, I take that into account. If politicians tell me the sky is blue - any politician - I go and look. If politicians with the kind of record that these lot have tell me the sky is blue, I assume it's probably neon green because of their track record (but I still go and look and/ or consult someone who knows what they're talking about or isn't a liar). | |||
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"Divide and Rule always Work People don’t Debate No more We get told something for long enough and we start to believe it that’s how they control our minds... And those who don’t agree for whatever reason is vilified " Do you think its "them" who are doing the dividing or do you think "we" are doing the dividing ourselves? You only have to look at the aggressive tone and language used in these fora to see we are very happy to divide ourselves into many tribes without anyone else's help. Name calling and aggressive pejorative language... (scum is one example) are hardly a sign that we are all desperately trying to get along but "they" are preventing us from doing so. | |||
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