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"Medically exempt?" Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening" I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ?" Exactly why i asked. | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing" Then in theory, it defeats the object then as I could carry the virus in, leave it on lots of surfaces for people to carry home to vulnerable relatives who also can't get vaccinated. There are tons of conditions and medications that don't allow for vaccines. I would, of course, hand-wash and take precautions as I am responsible but I wouldn't rely on every other medically exempt person to do the same. The amount of people who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet is testament to that. A vaccine alone is not enough for social distancing to be dropped and clubs to open. There needs to be several things in our 'tool box' to enable us to open and I genuinely think fast testing is going to be our best option. Polish clubs were doing this very thing successfully before the country locked down. | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing" I'm all for having the vaccine as I've said on other posts. I know I won't be at the front of the queue but I'll line up given the opportunity. If 95% do the same the problem will evaporate. Yes there will still be outbreaks but numbers will be minimal. Think of a forest fire. It spreads because wood burns, and all around is wood. However if 19 out of 20 ?? are made of concrete the fire ?? will die a death. Those that can't or don't respond to vaccines will therefore be safe if people act for the good of society. It's like war time, get your call up papers you gotta go. Anti vaxers will still be there but there health also will be safeguarded by the socially responsible like me. Most of us like clubs but they will go to the wall if we don't take a responsible attitude and set the foundations so that the government let's us back ASAP. They like any business need cash coming in. ?? | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing" Exactly there are a small percentage of people for whom vaccines genuinely don't work on. I read some of your recent posts about you falling into this category. Therefore those people could be excluded under a genuine medical exemption. That way the only people who can't attend are - Those who havent been infected previously by covid19 and / or don't show show active antibodies or longer term immunity via T Cell / B Cells. (This hypothetically assumes by mid 2021 some advances have been made into cheaper, easier testing for T cell / B Cell immunity for covid19). They have also declined to be vaccinated. Anybody else with either be Medically exempt (vaccines don't work on that person) Have had covid19 and currently have a documented level of immunity (like to need refreshing periodically) Have had covid previously but don't have any documented immunity levels therefore they have had the vaccine. Have never had a covid19 infection but have been vaccinated (If I have missed a group who will be left out without a choice to be included please let me know) KJ | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing Then in theory, it defeats the object then as I could carry the virus in, leave it on lots of surfaces for people to carry home to vulnerable relatives who also can't get vaccinated. There are tons of conditions and medications that don't allow for vaccines. I would, of course, hand-wash and take precautions as I am responsible but I wouldn't rely on every other medically exempt person to do the same. The amount of people who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet is testament to that. A vaccine alone is not enough for social distancing to be dropped and clubs to open. There needs to be several things in our 'tool box' to enable us to open and I genuinely think fast testing is going to be our best option. Polish clubs were doing this very thing successfully before the country locked down. " Medical exemption is a well established principle for vaccine mandates. The risk is reduced but not eliminated. If I'm vaccinated - I have been tested for MMR titers and so I know vaccination works on me - but the vaccination fails, ditto. It eliminates those who won't take responsibility for herd immunity and the risk they carry. Not all risk, but nothing is ever risk free. | |||
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"It's Summer 2021 If your local Swinging Clubs entry was only allowed for those members who were - Vaccinated Medically Exempt Positive Test (within a defined time frame) for Active Antibodies / T Cells / B Cells (Assuming all the above reasons can be applied by that point, T Cells / B Cell testing had become possible and the time windows of validity were clearly understood and set out) How would you feel? Would you boycott your club for putting in this policy? Would you feel safer with this type of policy and urgo more likely to attend? KJ" We all have T- killer cells anyway and yes I think when vaccinated and clear a certificate should be used for everything including clubs | |||
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"It's Summer 2021 If your local Swinging Clubs entry was only allowed for those members who were - Vaccinated Medically Exempt Positive Test (within a defined time frame) for Active Antibodies / T Cells / B Cells (Assuming all the above reasons can be applied by that point, T Cells / B Cell testing had become possible and the time windows of validity were clearly understood and set out) How would you feel? Would you boycott your club for putting in this policy? Would you feel safer with this type of policy and urgo more likely to attend? KJ We all have T- killer cells anyway and yes I think when vaccinated and clear a certificate should be used for everything including clubs" Anything can be forged, so anti vaxxers will find a way. I'm a scouser...we know people hahahaha JOKE! | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing Then in theory, it defeats the object then as I could carry the virus in, leave it on lots of surfaces for people to carry home to vulnerable relatives who also can't get vaccinated. There are tons of conditions and medications that don't allow for vaccines. I would, of course, hand-wash and take precautions as I am responsible but I wouldn't rely on every other medically exempt person to do the same. The amount of people who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet is testament to that. A vaccine alone is not enough for social distancing to be dropped and clubs to open. There needs to be several things in our 'tool box' to enable us to open and I genuinely think fast testing is going to be our best option. Polish clubs were doing this very thing successfully before the country locked down. " Appreciate your input. My posts aren't my views I'm just playing devils advocate with some of the potential trends immerging in light of vaccines becoming a reality. I will say this though. The percentage of inaccurate results i.e. false negatives that currently happens with rapid testing could be a lot higher than the percentage of attendees who like yourself would genuinely medically exempt. I'm also an advocate of the tool box / multi strategies approach. A swinging club operating fully would loose social distancing but all covid cleaning regimes so be kept in place. KJ | |||
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"Then I, club owner would not be able to work in or attend my own club as vaccines do not work on me and I will not get immunity. I'm spesh hahaha I think reliable, afforable fast testing is more of a suitable option for clubs opening I think that's what medical exemption would cover. Can't be vaccinated, sort of thing Then in theory, it defeats the object then as I could carry the virus in, leave it on lots of surfaces for people to carry home to vulnerable relatives who also can't get vaccinated. There are tons of conditions and medications that don't allow for vaccines. I would, of course, hand-wash and take precautions as I am responsible but I wouldn't rely on every other medically exempt person to do the same. The amount of people who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet is testament to that. A vaccine alone is not enough for social distancing to be dropped and clubs to open. There needs to be several things in our 'tool box' to enable us to open and I genuinely think fast testing is going to be our best option. Polish clubs were doing this very thing successfully before the country locked down. Appreciate your input. My posts aren't my views I'm just playing devils advocate with some of the potential trends immerging in light of vaccines becoming a reality. I will say this though. The percentage of inaccurate results i.e. false negatives that currently happens with rapid testing could be a lot higher than the percentage of attendees who like yourself would genuinely medically exempt. I'm also an advocate of the tool box / multi strategies approach. A swinging club operating fully would loose social distancing but all covid cleaning regimes so be kept in place. KJ " Absolutely, that's why I said 'reliable and affordable'. We still don't know if the vaccines are reliable and how long they give immunity for. A multi faceted approach is going to be needed to allow clubs to open again, but if it means us jumping through big firey hoops, then I'm ready. Bring it on! | |||
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Not that I'm concerned as I'm in the caring profession,I'm more than likely to get the jab,however just like Townhouse my body spits out the hep B jab,so will the covid jab work for me? I have the normal flu jab but is it wasted on me,we don't get a immunity test for it so who knows | |||
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"I wouldn't boycott the club as I will have no choice in the Matter,if that rule came out in any club or vanilla venue I would be simply excluded
Not that I'm concerned as I'm in the caring profession,I'm more than likely to get the jab,however just like Townhouse my body spits out the hep B jab,so will the covid jab work for me? I have the normal flu jab but is it wasted on me,we don't get a immunity test for it so who knows "Did your trust keep giving you boosters to try and get it to work? I was like, you are welcome to try but you are wasting your time hahaha | |||
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"I wouldn't boycott the club as I will have no choice in the Matter,if that rule came out in any club or vanilla venue I would be simply excluded
Not that I'm concerned as I'm in the caring profession,I'm more than likely to get the jab,however just like Townhouse my body spits out the hep B jab,so will the covid jab work for me? I have the normal flu jab but is it wasted on me,we don't get a immunity test for it so who knows
Did your trust keep giving you boosters to try and get it to work? I was like, you are welcome to try but you are wasting your time hahaha"Yes they tried for ages but kept getting a call it was '0' so they said they can't continue | |||
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"I wouldn't boycott the club as I will have no choice in the Matter,if that rule came out in any club or vanilla venue I would be simply excluded
Not that I'm concerned as I'm in the caring profession,I'm more than likely to get the jab,however just like Townhouse my body spits out the hep B jab,so will the covid jab work for me? I have the normal flu jab but is it wasted on me,we don't get a immunity test for it so who knows "Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. To put it into perspective 25% get a false negative via the latest rapid tests for covid19. The latest dates shows false positives are much rarer. I agree with Townhouse we know a lot but there are many unknowns still. I've not doubt there will be many fire hoops to jump through before swinging in clubs can return to its hey days. KJ | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! " Fabio, you just made me gag on my tea! Hahaha Thanks for the giggle xx | |||
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"I wouldnt go. I would say to them that I would be back when it returns to like it was "Won’t happen shag. Be more like grab a test before you go. | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. " But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! " I don't see that as the big problem area tbh. A GPs with access to peoples full medical history could issue a UK standard vaccine exempt card for the 2% of people who would fall into that group. If event, concerts etc go down the no vaccine no entry route widely been discussed then they'd need to do something like that anyway. KJ | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others " Same as medical exemption elsewhere. We reduce rather than eliminate risk. | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! I don't see that as the big problem area tbh. A GPs with access to peoples full medical history could issue a UK standard vaccine exempt card for the 2% of people who would fall into that group. If event, concerts etc go down the no vaccine no entry route widely been discussed then they'd need to do something like that anyway. KJ" Yes. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that places will want to see evidence of vaccination, and so a vaccinated/ medical exemption card would be an obvious response to this. | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! I don't see that as the big problem area tbh. A GPs with access to peoples full medical history could issue a UK standard vaccine exempt card for the 2% of people who would fall into that group. If event, concerts etc go down the no vaccine no entry route widely been discussed then they'd need to do something like that anyway. KJ" Ticketmaster came out yesterday and said that was something they wasn’t doing. | |||
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"I wouldn't boycott the club as I will have no choice in the Matter,if that rule came out in any club or vanilla venue I would be simply excluded
Not that I'm concerned as I'm in the caring profession,I'm more than likely to get the jab,however just like Townhouse my body spits out the hep B jab,so will the covid jab work for me? I have the normal flu jab but is it wasted on me,we don't get a immunity test for it so who knows
Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt.
To put it into perspective 25% get a false negative via the latest rapid tests for covid19. The latest dates shows false positives are much rarer.
I agree with Townhouse we know a lot but there are many unknowns still.
I've not doubt there will be many fire hoops to jump through before swinging in clubs can return to its hey days.
KJ "Like others have said if I fall into that 2% exemption would that not be risky to others,I have a weekly negative test but that wouldnt get me through the door either Hopefully the rapid testing would improve by next summer
Yes definitely there is alot we dont know,I'm not thinking that freedom will happen when vaccinated,we still dont know alot about it | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others " Absolutely so its becomes a question of should they miss out on things in society or not for something out of their control? Is that 2% of medical exempt people an acceptable risk? When you compare it to say rapid testing on the door which we know will give 25% of those tested a false negative? KJ | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others " That would be a concern lock us all up  | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others Absolutely so its becomes a question of should they miss out on things in society or not for something out of their control? Is that 2% of medical exempt people an acceptable risk? When you compare it to say rapid testing on the door which we know will give 25% of those tested a false negative? KJ " For every other vaccine preventable illness, the "herd" of vaccinated people protects those who can't be vaccinated (or for whom the vaccine doesn't work). Assuming that we have a 90% effective vaccine (and for the sake of simplicity that effectiveness and uptake is equal among the population). I'd rather have a 12% susceptible population (2% can't have it, 10% doesn't work) than a 12 + "I don't want it" percent susceptible population. Even if I personally will be fine (am protected, am youngish and healthyish), it's not just about me, it's about the health and economic consequences to others. | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! Fabio, you just made me gag on my tea! Hahaha Thanks for the giggle xx" hijack coming... gloss over!! i know.... my new iphone arrived yesterday and i did a wireless phone to phone data transfer (i know i am such a proud trainee nerd now!!!) anyway forgot that i had some of my friends phone ringer set as the "jim'll fix it" tune (inside joke!) had to answer the call sharpish! | |||
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"Dark thread and would lead to a new prejudice. Would not go to a club with this policy. guys can't manage std certification let alone this" Prejudice generally exists about characteristics that are innate. "I don't want to do my bit to protect public health" is not an innate characteristics. | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others " I think anybody could still carry the virus and pass it on to others whether they are exempt, vaccinated or or whatever the situation. They can still touch surfaces that might contain the virus and still carry it to others. | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! Fabio, you just made me gag on my tea! Hahaha Thanks for the giggle xx hijack coming... gloss over!! i know.... my new iphone arrived yesterday and i did a wireless phone to phone data transfer (i know i am such a proud trainee nerd now!!!) anyway forgot that i had some of my friends phone ringer set as the "jim'll fix it" tune (inside joke!) had to answer the call sharpish! "Pahahahaha....I daren't tell my Jim about this, he would immediately change his ring tone to that theme tune for comedy value lol | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others I think anybody could still carry the virus and pass it on to others whether they are exempt, vaccinated or or whatever the situation. They can still touch surfaces that might contain the virus and still carry it to others." Yes indeed but once an immune person washes their hands, the risk is removed. If I, who can't get immunity, actually have the virus, everytime I touch my face, cough into my hands (or not  ) I can pass it on. | |||
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"It does not make sense. Everyone who gets vaccinated should feel safe." 10% shouldn't | |||
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"Why are the 98% of people not exempt worrying about the 2% that are exempt? Surely if the 98% who have been vaccinated don't need to worry as they won't catch it anyway. I really dont understand the issue tbh. " I'm worried about the medical exempt (and those the vaccine doesn't protect) because they're still vulnerable and I want to protect them. The more people are vaccinated, the more the vulnerable will be protected. This isn't "I'm worried about my health". It's "I want the people who are most vulnerable to Covid-19 to be able to get their lives back with as little risk as possible". | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others I think anybody could still carry the virus and pass it on to others whether they are exempt, vaccinated or or whatever the situation. They can still touch surfaces that might contain the virus and still carry it to others. Yes indeed but once an immune person washes their hands, the risk is removed. If I, who can't get immunity, actually have the virus, everytime I touch my face, cough into my hands (or not ) I can pass it on. "If we had a 95% vaccination uptake then you could only pass it on to 5% of the population. Going by some on this and other threads, a good percentage of the 5% aren't looking to go to clubs until its "super safe". So based on this (see my forest fire theory earlier in the thread) then there is less to worry about. 95% take the needle and this thing will die a death....till the next reincarnation....... | |||
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" Then you would fall into the roughly 2% of people for whom vaccines don't work on therefore you would be able to attend under genuinely medically exempt. But as Vicky from Townhouse says, these "exempt" people can still carry the virus and pass it on to others I think anybody could still carry the virus and pass it on to others whether they are exempt, vaccinated or or whatever the situation. They can still touch surfaces that might contain the virus and still carry it to others. Yes indeed but once an immune person washes their hands, the risk is removed. If I, who can't get immunity, actually have the virus, everytime I touch my face, cough into my hands (or not ) I can pass it on.
If we had a 95% vaccination uptake then you could only pass it on to 5% of the population. Going by some on this and other threads, a good percentage of the 5% aren't looking to go to clubs until its "super safe". So based on this (see my forest fire theory earlier in the thread) then there is less to worry about. 95% take the needle and this thing will die a death....till the next reincarnation......."That's how it works with things like measles. Or smallpox - which we've eradicated. | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked." That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think. | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked. That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think." If vaccinated then I'm pretty sure your chances of hitting that 100% will improve...?? | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked. That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think." And in a situation like this a professional will be able to tell you, one with qualifications and guidance from more prestigious institutions than the University of Google  | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked. That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think. And in a situation like this a professional will be able to tell you, one with qualifications and guidance from more prestigious institutions than the University of Google "are you trying to tell me that everything I read on the internet is perhaps not true. | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked. That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think. And in a situation like this a professional will be able to tell you, one with qualifications and guidance from more prestigious institutions than the University of Google are you trying to tell me that everything I read on the internet is perhaps not true." it's shocking. I'm shocked. | |||
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"I doubt any business would shoot themselves in the foot with such a policy unless instructed to by government regs. Which I doubt. But wouldn’t bother me. " It's the only way possible that swinging has any kind of future. Bear in mind also that anonymity will be a thing of the past. | |||
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"I doubt any business would shoot themselves in the foot with such a policy unless instructed to by government regs. Which I doubt. But wouldn’t bother me. It's the only way possible that swinging has any kind of future. Bear in mind also that anonymity will be a thing of the past." I don’t agree. Anonymity is still going on and has been all year. | |||
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"Medically exempt? Medically exempt from transmitting Covid to someone else ? Exactly why i asked. That's me I'm medically exempt from transmitting covid I googled it and I'm deffiently, preety sure, 70/30, maybe, 100 % sure that I can perhaps not transmit covid....I think. And in a situation like this a professional will be able to tell you, one with qualifications and guidance from more prestigious institutions than the University of Google are you trying to tell me that everything I read on the internet is perhaps not true."Kittens are true. The internet has lots of kittens. Also has lots of pussies, though that can be a very different sort of video | |||
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"I doubt any business would shoot themselves in the foot with such a policy unless instructed to by government regs. Which I doubt. But wouldn’t bother me. It's the only way possible that swinging has any kind of future. Bear in mind also that anonymity will be a thing of the past. I don’t agree. Anonymity is still going on and has been all year. " I've been to the Townhouse and they looked at my passport. I have no issue with that: I would similarly have no issue with them looking at an NHS issued card on vaccination | |||
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"I doubt any business would shoot themselves in the foot with such a policy unless instructed to by government regs. Which I doubt. But wouldn’t bother me. It's the only way possible that swinging has any kind of future. Bear in mind also that anonymity will be a thing of the past. I don’t agree. Anonymity is still going on and has been all year. I've been to the Townhouse and they looked at my passport. I have no issue with that: I would similarly have no issue with them looking at an NHS issued card on vaccination" ? | |||
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"I wouldnt go. I would say to them that I would be back when it returns to like it was "same here, I would refrain from swinging altogether | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc " If you look at resources like Next Strain, the mutation rate of the virus is very slow. | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc " Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking " Vaccination has wiped out precisely one disease in human history. Eradication isn't the aim here, just low enough disease burden and susceptibility that we can get our lives back with minimal risk. | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!!" Can you get people to sign a disclaimer form saying they accept the risks and are happy with all you put in place to mitigate? | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking " I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!! Can you get people to sign a disclaimer form saying they accept the risks and are happy with all you put in place to mitigate?" I would be happy to do that but I don't know if licensing would be happy. We would probably have to get it legally drawn up so there was no room for litigation at all. It's all so up in the air and unknown. What I do know is that we won't be getting approval to open for a long time! | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. " Yup. It’s 50-50 in my office. However I’m sure bravado is in play a little and secretly a few will have it. | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!! Can you get people to sign a disclaimer form saying they accept the risks and are happy with all you put in place to mitigate? I would be happy to do that but I don't know if licensing would be happy. We would probably have to get it legally drawn up so there was no room for litigation at all. It's all so up in the air and unknown. What I do know is that we won't be getting approval to open for a long time! " Yes it might have to become a thing that is officially drawn up and universally accepted so that all sorts of functions can go ahead. | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. Yup. It’s 50-50 in my office. However I’m sure bravado is in play a little and secretly a few will have it. " Mine is nearer an 80-20 I reckon and if facebook local pages are anything to go by not a chance  | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. Yup. It’s 50-50 in my office. However I’m sure bravado is in play a little and secretly a few will have it. Mine is nearer an 80-20 I reckon and if facebook local pages are anything to go by not a chance "What 80 for or against? | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. Yup. It’s 50-50 in my office. However I’m sure bravado is in play a little and secretly a few will have it. Mine is nearer an 80-20 I reckon and if facebook local pages are anything to go by not a chance
What 80 for or against? "Against mostly. | |||
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"It's Summer 2021 If your local Swinging Clubs entry was only allowed for those members who were - Vaccinated Medically Exempt Positive Test (within a defined time frame) for Active Antibodies / T Cells / B Cells (Assuming all the above reasons can be applied by that point, T Cells / B Cell testing had become possible and the time windows of validity were clearly understood and set out) How would you feel? Would you boycott your club for putting in this policy? Would you feel safer with this type of policy and urgo more likely to attend? KJ" No would be more happy to support them | |||
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"It's Summer 2021 If your local Swinging Clubs entry was only allowed for those members who were - Vaccinated Medically Exempt Positive Test (within a defined time frame) for Active Antibodies / T Cells / B Cells (Assuming all the above reasons can be applied by that point, T Cells / B Cell testing had become possible and the time windows of validity were clearly understood and set out) How would you feel? Would you boycott your club for putting in this policy? Would you feel safer with this type of policy and urgo more likely to attend? KJ" As the government have said that most under 50's won't be offered the vaccine, clubs are unlikely to suggest this. | |||
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"short of something like a "Jim'll fix it" badge (i know ... bad example!) how would you even check for this sort of thing.... how many documents would you have to carry around at all times? and besides we don't even know if its a one time (well two shots) vaccine.. or whether we would need to have shot every year a la the flu! " I think it will be in an app | |||
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"It would be interesting if all the anti-vaccers were not allowed in. I think they would do a U-turn pretty quickly."
Yes, I suspect those against vaccination, apart from a small fringe, would change their minds if their decision came with consequences to them. | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!!" So, are you saying that you would be forced to have a "no vaccination,,no entry...no exception", policy? | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!! So, are you saying that you would be forced to have a "no vaccination,,no entry...no exception", policy?" No I didn't say that at all!!!!! lol I said there needs to be a multi faceted approach as vaccines alone will not be enough for us to open xx | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!! So, are you saying that you would be forced to have a "no vaccination,,no entry...no exception", policy? No I didn't say that at all!!!!! lol I said there needs to be a multi faceted approach as vaccines alone will not be enough for us to open xx" Ultimately the number of new cases will be limiting factor. If the numbers drop to just a few cases a week, then there will be no need for restrictions. Cal | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!! So, are you saying that you would be forced to have a "no vaccination,,no entry...no exception", policy? No I didn't say that at all!!!!! lol I said there needs to be a multi faceted approach as vaccines alone will not be enough for us to open xx Ultimately the number of new cases will be limiting factor. If the numbers drop to just a few cases a week, then there will be no need for restrictions. Cal" Yes. It seems like a pipe dream right now, but if we could get Covid to below 1 case per million people, we could treat it like we do things like measles. As a background threat, not an immediate one. | |||
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"The fact remains, that only60% of the population will actually get the vaccine. So how can any club possibly operate a no vaccine, no entry policy. " What's your source for this claim? | |||
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"Without completely understanding all the medical ins and outs of vaccinations, exemptions etc. , summer 2021 is a long way off. The virus might have mutated by then, might have disappeared, reduced in severity etc etc Hopefully a vaccination programme may wipe It out before then. But I’m not so sure the uptake on the vaccination will be enough certainly going by those who have said they won’t take it on here. If that’s a snapshot of the wider populations thinking ----- I think there will be a very very low uptake of it from the general population. " I think people will be tripping over themselves to get it. Every survey I've seen, including on here and Facebook suggests around 80% in favour. I suppose the other 20% would rather just keep moaning about masks and restrictions. Cal | |||
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"The fact remains, that only60% of the population will actually get the vaccine. So how can any club possibly operate a no vaccine, no entry policy. What's your source for this claim?" I think a lot of people get on confused. 20 million doses is just the first order. The most vunerable will get the virus first naturally. Followed by those working in front line NHS services, then key workers and so on. The ultimate plan will be to offer the / a vaccine to essentially everyone over 18. This will happen across many months. The question of if the vaccine should be offered to under 18s given the fact that the risk to them from covid is infinitesimally small, especially for those children with no comorbidities (stuck by lighting level of odds) is different debate altogether. KJ | |||
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"The fact remains, that only60% of the population will actually get the vaccine. So how can any club possibly operate a no vaccine, no entry policy. What's your source for this claim? I think a lot of people get on confused. 20 million doses is just the first order. The most vunerable will get the virus first naturally. Followed by those working in front line NHS services, then key workers and so on. The ultimate plan will be to offer the / a vaccine to essentially everyone over 18. This will happen across many months. The question of if the vaccine should be offered to under 18s given the fact that the risk to them from covid is infinitesimally small, especially for those children with no comorbidities (stuck by lighting level of odds) is different debate altogether. KJ " Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need." I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal" Considering economics only, it would be more sensible to vaccinate people who can get to work, who are most likely to spend money in bars, restaurants, theatres, concerts. Basically those who help get the economy back on track. However, I also feel that the older population who have worked all their lives to get the country to where it is, should not spend their latter years holed up indoors, unable to see their family. It's inhumane. | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal" The UK population is close to 70 million. The first order is for 20 million I hope the goverment is on the front foot from the beginning with this. Ideally 3 to 6 months since the vaccine programme starts we would have completed a number of orders and everybody who wants to have the vaccine has had the opportunity. I know working for a local authority that teams are currently been set up and there mandate will be to get the vaccine out to all corners of society (depending on which specific groups its been rolled out to at each given point). They will be going to workplaces, nursing homes, supported living accommodations and will be going directly to people's homes when required to ensure people are not missed or overlooked. KJ | |||
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"It would be interesting if all the anti-vaccers were not allowed in. I think they would do a U-turn pretty quickly." Why do you assume that all of those who don't wish to have the covid vaccine are rabid anti vaccine? | |||
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" Why do you assume that all of those who don't wish to have the covid vaccine are rabid anti vaccine? " Good question | |||
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"It's Summer 2021 If your local Swinging Clubs entry was only allowed for those members who were - Vaccinated Medically Exempt Positive Test (within a defined time frame) for Active Antibodies / T Cells / B Cells (Assuming all the above reasons can be applied by that point, T Cells / B Cell testing had become possible and the time windows of validity were clearly understood and set out) How would you feel? Would you boycott your club for putting in this policy? Would you feel safer with this type of policy and urgo more likely to attend? KJ" How could the owner check the people have been vaccinated? | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal" Good point, the young and socially active are no doubt the spreaders at the moment so logic would say vaccinate them and the problem reduces to manageable levels. On the other hand the old and vulnerable can't be expected to hide for ever. Answer to that, let's get busy and vaccinate everyone that wants it. The downside is the NHS is already way behind in attending to other issues such as life threatening cancer and the like. Therefore let's not stretch the elastic any more and use the military for the task, they are good at organising. Between the three forces there are 150k of personnel. Why not use them to greater effect. | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal -------- The UK population is close to 70 million. The first order is for 20 million I hope the goverment is on the front foot from the beginning with this. Ideally 3 to 6 months since the vaccine programme starts we would have completed a number of orders and everybody who wants to have the vaccine has had the opportunity. I know working for a local authority that teams are currently been set up and there mandate will be to get the vaccine out to all corners of society (depending on which specific groups its been rolled out to at each given point). They will be going to workplaces, nursing homes, supported living accommodations and will be going directly to people's homes when required to ensure people are not missed or overlooked. KJ" I'm assuming that the 10 million doses will only vaccinate 5 million people as 2 shots are required. | |||
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" Yes, my understanding is that it'll be rolled out gradually according to need. I do wonder if it would be better to offer the vaccine to the most mobile of the population first, rather that the most vulnerable. Although vaccination of the most vulnerable will help protect those folk, it would seem that inoculation of the younger population, those who are most socially active, would probably reduce the infection rate quicker. Obviously the ideal would be to vaccinate everyone who wants it, as soon as possible. Cal -------- The UK population is close to 70 million. The first order is for 20 million I hope the goverment is on the front foot from the beginning with this. Ideally 3 to 6 months since the vaccine programme starts we would have completed a number of orders and everybody who wants to have the vaccine has had the opportunity. I know working for a local authority that teams are currently been set up and there mandate will be to get the vaccine out to all corners of society (depending on which specific groups its been rolled out to at each given point). They will be going to workplaces, nursing homes, supported living accommodations and will be going directly to people's homes when required to ensure people are not missed or overlooked. KJ I'm assuming that the 10 million doses will only vaccinate 5 million people as 2 shots are required. " Obviously that should have said 20 million will vaccinate 10 million...  | |||
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"Ok just throwing something out there, having experienced how discriminated clubs have been during this pandemic. Insurance companies would have a field day with this. They refused to pay out due to Covid and although it's being battled in court, any kind of payout is going to be a long way off and highly contested. We have already been told that pandemic cover and any related claims will not be covered going forward. All but one insurer have dropped out of the 'Adult' market which has given them the niche and our insurance has gone up by nearly £200 per month Insurers throw so many caveats into the mix, it would make it impossible for us to open safely and with enough cover to protect our businesses? Let's say, we did reliable fast testing prior to entry and negative person went onto contract Covid and they could prove that they caught Covid in our venue and wanted to sue us (coz people just love litigation nowadays) it would close us down as insurance would not cover us. This sounds far fetched, but actually, our businesses are at risk as well as people's health and we literally have no safety net. We are required to have comprehensive insurance cover to get our licence to open as a swingers club. If we cannot get comprehensive cover AND can't satisfy the council that we are mitigating risk as much as possible, then they will not grant us the go ahead to open. So this 2% medically exempt malarkey will not wash with the licencing as there is still a risk. It's mind blowing and you wouldn't believe some of the conversations I have had. It would be easier to negotiate my way through a zombie apocalypse!!!!" So you would have know chance of opening up same as a theatre for the same reason Insurance | |||
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