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"I'm just hoping that they make it mandatory covid vaccination for any travel overseas , it wouldn't be the first vaccine needed to travel , look at yellow fever , quite a few countries need a vaccination certificate to enter " The idea of being on a long haul flight without protection from Covid freaks me right out. (Yes, I'll be vaccinated No, that doesn't guarantee immunity because all measures are flawed. No, it's not ok to just say that those who can't be vaccinated will have to restrict themselves forever or take their chances) | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." What’s worrying about that compared to where we are now? If you don’t want the vaccine don’t go the event. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. What’s worrying about that compared to where we are now? If you don’t want the vaccine don’t go the event. " No jab, no play  | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." Yes yes that's exactly what it is   | |||
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"The problem with this is some people just can't get immune to vaccinations! I am one of them. I have had lots of vaccines over the years and I can't get immunity. An example...I was jabbed over and over in the NHS for hepatitis and whenever they did my bloods, I was not immune. Do we just get excluded from society because we cannot get immune? The solution to this pandemic is multi faceted. A vaccine alone won't solve this problem! " No, but if those who can be vaccinated are, we don't pick it up to spread to you. That's what herd immunity is. If your contacts block transmission by being vaccinated, you don't get sick. I have a family member who can't be vaccinated. I get my vaccine to protect him - and you. (As well as myself) | |||
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"The problem with this is some people just can't get immune to vaccinations! I am one of them. I have had lots of vaccines over the years and I can't get immunity. An example...I was jabbed over and over in the NHS for hepatitis and whenever they did my bloods, I was not immune. Do we just get excluded from society because we cannot get immune? The solution to this pandemic is multi faceted. A vaccine alone won't solve this problem! No, but if those who can be vaccinated are, we don't pick it up to spread to you. That's what herd immunity is. If your contacts block transmission by being vaccinated, you don't get sick. I have a family member who can't be vaccinated. I get my vaccine to protect him - and you. (As well as myself)" Yes I know the theory behind vaccinations...health professional here!! lol My point is the OP saying that vaccination status could be mandatory to get into events. By this, those who cannot get immune or cannot receive vaccinations would be excluded. | |||
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"The problem with this is some people just can't get immune to vaccinations! I am one of them. I have had lots of vaccines over the years and I can't get immunity. An example...I was jabbed over and over in the NHS for hepatitis and whenever they did my bloods, I was not immune. Do we just get excluded from society because we cannot get immune? The solution to this pandemic is multi faceted. A vaccine alone won't solve this problem! No, but if those who can be vaccinated are, we don't pick it up to spread to you. That's what herd immunity is. If your contacts block transmission by being vaccinated, you don't get sick. I have a family member who can't be vaccinated. I get my vaccine to protect him - and you. (As well as myself) Yes I know the theory behind vaccinations...health professional here!! lol My point is the OP saying that vaccination status could be mandatory to get into events. By this, those who cannot get immune or cannot receive vaccinations would be excluded. " Fair enough, apologies. The way it works in places like the US and Australia where this exists, at least for children, is that you prove vaccination status or an approved exemption (hopefully only medical although )
The policy in Australia is actually called "no jab no play", stemming from the school yard policy (which I believe predates my schooling in Australia) "no hat no play". If you didn't have a hat at recess or lunch, you could sit in the shade. (Sunburn/ skin cancer prevention) | |||
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"I believe you will be issued a certificate to prove vaccination. Early days yet " Vaccination records already exist for most people whose medical records have been continuous since childhood. Before the age of 24 my doctors here just have to take my word for it, lol. (Fully vaccinated to Australian schedule at the time plus cervical cancer, chicken pox, most flu shots from 2001. When I moved here I was advised to check my titers for measles. My rubella titers were low so they gave me an MMR, and threw in a bonus tetanus shot - on the same day as the last Gardasil shot, all in the same arm, motherfuckers) | |||
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"I believe you will be issued a certificate to prove vaccination. Early days yet Vaccination records already exist for most people whose medical records have been continuous since childhood. Before the age of 24 my doctors here just have to take my word for it, lol. (Fully vaccinated to Australian schedule at the time plus cervical cancer, chicken pox, most flu shots from 2001. When I moved here I was advised to check my titers for measles. My rubella titers were low so they gave me an MMR, and threw in a bonus tetanus shot - on the same day as the last Gardasil shot, all in the same arm, motherfuckers)" Ooh...dead arm for a while? Lol | |||
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"I believe you will be issued a certificate to prove vaccination. Early days yet Vaccination records already exist for most people whose medical records have been continuous since childhood. Before the age of 24 my doctors here just have to take my word for it, lol. (Fully vaccinated to Australian schedule at the time plus cervical cancer, chicken pox, most flu shots from 2001. When I moved here I was advised to check my titers for measles. My rubella titers were low so they gave me an MMR, and threw in a bonus tetanus shot - on the same day as the last Gardasil shot, all in the same arm, motherfuckers) Ooh...dead arm for a while? Lol " Yeah 
I'm grateful for the protection but ouch  | |||
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"I believe you will be issued a certificate to prove vaccination. Early days yet " Digital health passport on your smartphone. Been talked about for a while now. The Republic of Ireland's health service has an introduction video about how it will be rolled out.... | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." A public health crisis is not a personal liberties issue. Do not conflate the two. | |||
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"Is Bill Gates a contact of yours op? If not, beware because 1 of the biggest conspiracy theories of recent years has centred on his fantastic work but spun all kinds of lies, to manipulate people and their thinking. There are ways of checking the truth and facts as well as avoiding spam and keeping separate from inappropriate source material. There are now plans to increase the rollout of rapid testing, as was seen in Liverpool recently. They are an option for people to get to know whether they are putting others at potential risk, which nobody would want to do. Private businesses are at liberty to restrict customers entry, similar to bouncers at clubs. As with Fab, we have to adhere to a company's policies. We'd hope that it would affect a very tiny amount of people. And those who are early in their infection are amongst the highest risk to others for being infectious. As time goes on, improved treatment programmes are arriving, so it also means that anyone finding out that they are infected have the best prospects. Buyer beware, as ever " Don't forget to mention his close personal and professional relationship with Jeff epstien. Wouldn't want a nugget like that escaping anyone's notice.  | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Not seen any video of bill gates says this and can't find it either. Luckily bill gates has no real influence on law making in this or any other country. Ticketmaster and others are talking about mandatory testing for events because they are desperate to get gigs and events back on. You need vaccination shots to travel to certain countries now not much difference. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. A public health crisis is not a personal liberties issue. Do not conflate the two."
Public health is about communal responsibility. | |||
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"hope this happens.. means I will be able to go back to work managing crowds at live events. Maybe proof of negative test or heat sensors may also be employed. There may also be a £5 freedom pass test brought into validate health for events.. let's get back out there, all the world's a stage!! d" I believe immunity tests are flawed. I'd be all for it if it's proof of vaccination/medical exemption | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." Yes, just like its a case of "be a good little drone and don't drink and drive or lose the right to drive". It's all about your personal opinions and right to do what you want, and nothing at all to do with the health and safety of other people. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Nothing like another Bill Gates video hey... I think if you believe this you'll believe anything. I read about Ticketmaster wanting proof of negative covid test before allowing you into a mass gathering, Bill Gates has absolutely nothing... zero... zilch... sweet f.a to do with any kind of rules or laws. Also there simply wont be enough doses of the possible vaccine to go around everyone straight away, theres a priority list and a lot of people myself included aren't anywhere near priority so the vaccination will never be mandatory. I can say something 100% I would feel alot safer being in Old Trafford with 75.000 other people or even standing shoulder to shoulder with someone at a bar if I knew it was safe | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... " Haha good luck with that. I'm buzzing to get back to see live music and sports and the majority of sensible people probably are tll. Spike my damn vein and let's get to it! | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... Haha good luck with that. I'm buzzing to get back to see live music and sports and the majority of sensible people probably are tll. Spike my damn vein and let's get to it! " I think all but the fringe, when faced with potential inconvenience, will just get it done. There's a lot of hot air and meaningless rhetoric behind this. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... Haha good luck with that. I'm buzzing to get back to see live music and sports and the majority of sensible people probably are tll. Spike my damn vein and let's get to it! I think all but the fringe, when faced with potential inconvenience, will just get it done. There's a lot of hot air and meaningless rhetoric behind this." I think the problem has been that while the data for vaccine trials is still being collected and collated there's an information vacuum which is being filled by absolute garbage. When the vaccine/s are being rolled out, and the normalcy of it becomes better accepted, people who have some legitimate concerns will have their fears allayed, while the few hard-core loons will move onto the next anti-science bullshit. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... Haha good luck with that. I'm buzzing to get back to see live music and sports and the majority of sensible people probably are tll. Spike my damn vein and let's get to it! I think all but the fringe, when faced with potential inconvenience, will just get it done. There's a lot of hot air and meaningless rhetoric behind this. I think the problem has been that while the data for vaccine trials is still being collected and collated there's an information vacuum which is being filled by absolute garbage. When the vaccine/s are being rolled out, and the normalcy of it becomes better accepted, people who have some legitimate concerns will have their fears allayed, while the few hard-core loons will move onto the next anti-science bullshit." The core of loons have certainly tried to increase their ranks. It's extraordinary how they convince people given how vacuous and evidence free their arguments are. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... " Nah, I will have the vaccine and go to the event, just remember, admission to any event is already subject to certain rules | |||
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"Thanks for the replies. I’ve never once said i’m a conspiracy theorist or believed the vid I was sent! I included that fact to spark debate. What worries me is the speed at which these vaccines have been produced and how potentially getting back to normality will depend on getting a vaccination.It will take a hell of a long time to vaccinate everyone, not to mention the logistical problems involved. Does anyone really think we’ll be back to “normal” any time soon? " No, normal will take a long time to rebuild. But vaccination is one of the main ways out. Using methods that have been in development for a long time, with hurdles like admin and finance overcome because of the urgency of the demand for a vaccine. | |||
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"Quite, simple, if you dont want the vaccine that's fine, but dont moan when you get refused entry to places and countries. Its your choice dont forget." Yes, choices come with consequences. | |||
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"Thanks for the replies. I’ve never once said i’m a conspiracy theorist or believed the vid I was sent! I included that fact to spark debate. What worries me is the speed at which these vaccines have been produced and how potentially getting back to normality will depend on getting a vaccination.It will take a hell of a long time to vaccinate everyone, not to mention the logistical problems involved. Does anyone really think we’ll be back to “normal” any time soon? " I get the worry, but as long as rigorous standards are applied in the approval process (which hasn't substantially changed, just sped up) then I'm more amazed than worried... and profoundly grateful to live in a time where technology is enabling humanity as a whole to combat a significant threat with such speed. It's comforting. As for a return to normality, things will never be back to pre-covid. The pandemic is now a massive feature in our collective global psyche and culture. The fallout will likely not be understood for years. The world has changed, but it has changed before and will change again. Something more close to normality will resume next year. | |||
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"Thanks for the replies. I’ve never once said i’m a conspiracy theorist or believed the vid I was sent! I included that fact to spark debate. What worries me is the speed at which these vaccines have been produced and how potentially getting back to normality will depend on getting a vaccination.It will take a hell of a long time to vaccinate everyone, not to mention the logistical problems involved. Does anyone really think we’ll be back to “normal” any time soon? I get the worry, but as long as rigorous standards are applied in the approval process (which hasn't substantially changed, just sped up) then I'm more amazed than worried... and profoundly grateful to live in a time where technology is enabling humanity as a whole to combat a significant threat with such speed. It's comforting. As for a return to normality, things will never be back to pre-covid. The pandemic is now a massive feature in our collective global psyche and culture. The fallout will likely not be understood for years. The world has changed, but it has changed before and will change again. Something more close to normality will resume next year. " Yes. Ultimately I trust the process of medication and vaccine approval which has been refined over decades. I'll look to the various bodies internationally that approve pharmaceuticals and see what they have to say. | |||
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"So the only people attending events will be over 50 going forward, given that the current plans only involve 50+. :" That is only the initial vaccine plan. Eventually the plan is all adults vaccinated, well offered it. Events are talking about testing before entry. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Yes, just like its a case of "be a good little drone and don't drink and drive or lose the right to drive". It's all about your personal opinions and right to do what you want, and nothing at all to do with the health and safety of other people. " Like a lot of the other drivel spouted in this forum that's a false equivalency. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti Vax. However, like anything else I put into my body, I'll be making sure I know the facts and potential side effects before I decide to have it, regardless of any scaremongering or exclusions from society. | |||
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"How long before you start seeing meets back on here where people state “vaccinated people only”.... "What about people that have previously had it. | |||
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"How long before you start seeing meets back on here where people state “vaccinated people only”....
What about people that have previously had it."I guess some people will want proof of vaccination .. bit like a Covid passport that you would have to show to get on a plane or into an event.... | |||
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"How long before you start seeing meets back on here where people state “vaccinated people only”....
What about people that have previously had it."problem is the immunity don't last long so they say and jabs may have to be given each year like the flu shot is , time will tell I guess | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Fucking sensible and socially responsible in my view | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." It won't | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." No not really but you seem more interested in sensationalism than reality | |||
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"Until there is a vaccine, and by a vaccine I mean something that WILL prevent you getting it AND stop you being able to spread it (so not this Pfizer effort) why speculate? " Can you elaborate on the above please? | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." And you believe the video do you? | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. It won't " The vaccine alone don’t cure this overnight, I’m pretty sure COVID will be around for some time to come. It will however allow us to get back to a semblance of normality, the things we have all been wishing gir may be achievable. We aren’t all ‘good little drones’ but some of us have the mental capacity to make our own decisions based on our own understandings, if you don’t want it don’t have it simple as that | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Not seen any video of bill gates says this and can't find it either. Luckily bill gates has no real influence on law making in this or any other country. Ticketmaster and others are talking about mandatory testing for events because they are desperate to get gigs and events back on. You need vaccination shots to travel to certain countries now not much difference." I read on a forum post... a guy said he had seen the video... please stop disputing the clear evidence. You need to be more woke. worrying times. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." I'd say that's fair enough. Events and mass gatherings are not essential and it is not anyone's right to be able to go to them. The organisers can already refuse entry to people for any reason they like and I belive should do so if they think someone posses a potential threat to the other attendees. If they believe not being vaccinated posses a threat, then fake enough. If you disagree, you don't need to attend. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Yet there appears to be no sign of this video of Bill Gates. The 'story' was however on Facebook and they flagged it as being misinformation. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Exellent news tis is the sort of planning I like to hear.i hope when vaccinted you get a proper certificate not like other jabs | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Yet there appears to be no sign of this video of Bill Gates. The 'story' was however on Facebook and they flagged it as being misinformation." Imagine that | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Yet there appears to be no sign of this video of Bill Gates. The 'story' was however on Facebook and they flagged it as being misinformation. Imagine that "He did however have an interview on CBS where he said "activities, like mass gatherings, may be— in a certain sense— more optional. And so until you're widely vaccinated, those may not come back at all." Which I can see if someone missed the 'widely', they could take it as meaning that. | |||
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"Fine as long as the people insisting on vaccinations have insurance cover for any liability claims." The US government has already put in place full liability immunity for any medical countermeasures for Covid 19 treatment to include any manufacturers, distributors and those administering medications and vaccines as per a document published on the federal gov website on the 17. March, which came into effect on the 4. February, 5 days after the WHO called a global crisis. Europe is also already conceding at least partial liability immunity on this matter, so anyone suffering ill effects in the mid or long term for taking a vaccine brought to market at this point where I personally believe clinical trials cannot possibly foresee any mid or long term effects. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." You have a choice coming up, take the vaccine or leave it. Take it and hopefully you will get out to play and life will return to some sort of normal. Alternatively don't take the vaccination and things will remain as they are for you. Thats your choice. That will be no ones fault , there is no one to blame but nature and that bat back in China. However as our understanding of this virus grows along with hopefully a good take up in the vaccine then the chances of catching covid will decrease. Treatment will get better and more efficient as our understanding gets better. So for the good of society hopefully the vast majority will take up the offer of a vaccine. No hidden agenda here, just looking for the fastest way back to normality. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. You have a choice coming up, take the vaccine or leave it. Take it and hopefully you will get out to play and life will return to some sort of normal. Alternatively don't take the vaccination and things will remain as they are for you. Thats your choice. That will be no ones fault , there is no one to blame but nature and that bat back in China. However as our understanding of this virus grows along with hopefully a good take up in the vaccine then the chances of catching covid will decrease. Treatment will get better and more efficient as our understanding gets better. So for the good of society hopefully the vast majority will take up the offer of a vaccine. No hidden agenda here, just looking for the fastest way back to normality. "
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. You have a choice coming up, take the vaccine or leave it. Take it and hopefully you will get out to play and life will return to some sort of normal. Alternatively don't take the vaccination and things will remain as they are for you. Thats your choice. That will be no ones fault , there is no one to blame but nature and that bat back in China. However as our understanding of this virus grows along with hopefully a good take up in the vaccine then the chances of catching covid will decrease. Treatment will get better and more efficient as our understanding gets better. So for the good of society hopefully the vast majority will take up the offer of a vaccine. No hidden agenda here, just looking for the fastest way back to normality. " I've had COVID, luckily for me it wasn't that bad, I've had worse colds to be honest. Til the science tells me that I can get it again I wont be taking a vaccine. I won't even take pain pills unless I really need to so I won't be taking a vaccine I don't require, if that paints me as a leper to society then I'm good with that. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Yes, just like its a case of "be a good little drone and don't drink and drive or lose the right to drive". It's all about your personal opinions and right to do what you want, and nothing at all to do with the health and safety of other people. Like a lot of the other drivel spouted in this forum that's a false equivalency. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti Vax. However, like anything else I put into my body, I'll be making sure I know the facts and potential side effects before I decide to have it, regardless of any scaremongering or exclusions from society." | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Brilliant. If it allows us to get some sense of new normality back. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. You have a choice coming up, take the vaccine or leave it. Take it and hopefully you will get out to play and life will return to some sort of normal. Alternatively don't take the vaccination and things will remain as they are for you. Thats your choice. That will be no ones fault , there is no one to blame but nature and that bat back in China. However as our understanding of this virus grows along with hopefully a good take up in the vaccine then the chances of catching covid will decrease. Treatment will get better and more efficient as our understanding gets better. So for the good of society hopefully the vast majority will take up the offer of a vaccine. No hidden agenda here, just looking for the fastest way back to normality. " | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. You have a choice coming up, take the vaccine or leave it. Take it and hopefully you will get out to play and life will return to some sort of normal. Alternatively don't take the vaccination and things will remain as they are for you. Thats your choice. That will be no ones fault , there is no one to blame but nature and that bat back in China. However as our understanding of this virus grows along with hopefully a good take up in the vaccine then the chances of catching covid will decrease. Treatment will get better and more efficient as our understanding gets better. So for the good of society hopefully the vast majority will take up the offer of a vaccine. No hidden agenda here, just looking for the fastest way back to normality. " Don't forget the millions who will have had the virus and have a level of natural immunity (though I don't believe the strength or duration of natural immunity has been accurately determined yet)... Wouldn't it be great though if for those who have had it and recovered... Or who have vaccine developed immunity.. They are allowed to get back on with things in a much more normal way. | |||
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"So the only people attending events will be over 50 going forward, given that the current plans only involve 50+. :" Eventually it’ll be given to school children same as polio ect Just a mater of time | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. " 1000 times this. | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. " The key you mentioned there is "choose to fill their lungs with...". They make a conscious choice. I'm not saying their choice is right, quite the opposite actually. I would say that those people who choose to do those things at a gig, know how harmful they are to their bodies. The evidence and research has been out there for years unlike the information being gathered in clinical trials on vaccines where mid and long term effects cannot possibly be seen yet! I'm not saying that makes it right. The reality is that cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and fast food and processed foods contribute to premature death and associated diseases resulting in premature death, yet you don't see the government pumping money into these health problems, and you don't see restrictions imposed, no, instead alcohol and cigarettes are taxed for revenue... And I take offense to the very generalised statement of "Covid 19 being a thousand times more likely to kill you than any side effects being suffered". That is simply an untrue statement or can you back that up with medical evidence?! We know the mortality rate of Covid 19 is 0.15%. Now the following is an excerpt from the studies done on the Astra Zeneca vaccine" One in 10 participants in the phase I/phase II study underwent blood monitoring and it was found that the neutrophils, types of white blood cells, had temporarily decreased in 46% of these people. According to Arvay, this neutropenia is an indication that the immune system is weakened by the vaccination" Now this is only one of the very few short term side effects. There have been reports of plenty other side effects... and who's to say that those won't turn into something more serious down the line, or that something will develop that can't be tested for yet or that is such a slow process it won't turn up for months, maybe years? I repeat again, swine flu has been associated with narcolepsy, a vaccine researched, manufactured and distributed in well under a year. Narcolepsy has seriously debilitating implications. There is no vaccine and no medication without side effects, some can be absolutely debilitating and lethal. And according to our constitutional rights, we have a choice on what we put in our bodies. I am not anti vaccine. I and my children are up to date on vaccines. But given the speed of the process for development, and given the fact that the US has given full liability immunity and Europe is set to follow with at least partial liability immunity for Pharma, I believe that there is way too much encouragement for gross negligence along the way. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a shit about anything bar making money. A glitch in vaccine where they are not even liable is going to do no harm as medication is always needed. | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. The key you mentioned there is "choose to fill their lungs with...". They make a conscious choice. I'm not saying their choice is right, quite the opposite actually. I would say that those people who choose to do those things at a gig, know how harmful they are to their bodies. The evidence and research has been out there for years unlike the information being gathered in clinical trials on vaccines where mid and long term effects cannot possibly be seen yet! I'm not saying that makes it right. The reality is that cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and fast food and processed foods contribute to premature death and associated diseases resulting in premature death, yet you don't see the government pumping money into these health problems, and you don't see restrictions imposed, no, instead alcohol and cigarettes are taxed for revenue... And I take offense to the very generalised statement of "Covid 19 being a thousand times more likely to kill you than any side effects being suffered". That is simply an untrue statement or can you back that up with medical evidence?! We know the mortality rate of Covid 19 is 0.15%. Now the following is an excerpt from the studies done on the Astra Zeneca vaccine" One in 10 participants in the phase I/phase II study underwent blood monitoring and it was found that the neutrophils, types of white blood cells, had temporarily decreased in 46% of these people. According to Arvay, this neutropenia is an indication that the immune system is weakened by the vaccination" Now this is only one of the very few short term side effects. There have been reports of plenty other side effects... and who's to say that those won't turn into something more serious down the line, or that something will develop that can't be tested for yet or that is such a slow process it won't turn up for months, maybe years? I repeat again, swine flu has been associated with narcolepsy, a vaccine researched, manufactured and distributed in well under a year. Narcolepsy has seriously debilitating implications. There is no vaccine and no medication without side effects, some can be absolutely debilitating and lethal. And according to our constitutional rights, we have a choice on what we put in our bodies. I am not anti vaccine. I and my children are up to date on vaccines. But given the speed of the process for development, and given the fact that the US has given full liability immunity and Europe is set to follow with at least partial liability immunity for Pharma, I believe that there is way too much encouragement for gross negligence along the way. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a shit about anything bar making money. A glitch in vaccine where they are not even liable is going to do no harm as medication is always needed." Why don’t you actually read the Swine Flu investigation headed by the NHS. As with a number of childhood vaccination programmes the belief and reality are two very separate things. These ‘don’t give a shit statements’ are also crap... it’s the same bollox as professional footballers not caring about the game just the money, people study and practice their art for decades, they have a passion for their area of speciality and as I’m sure a number of ex wives and husbands of leading researchers will testify... they love their work more than anything else. | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. The key you mentioned there is "choose to fill their lungs with...". They make a conscious choice. I'm not saying their choice is right, quite the opposite actually. I would say that those people who choose to do those things at a gig, know how harmful they are to their bodies. The evidence and research has been out there for years unlike the information being gathered in clinical trials on vaccines where mid and long term effects cannot possibly be seen yet! I'm not saying that makes it right. The reality is that cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and fast food and processed foods contribute to premature death and associated diseases resulting in premature death, yet you don't see the government pumping money into these health problems, and you don't see restrictions imposed, no, instead alcohol and cigarettes are taxed for revenue... And I take offense to the very generalised statement of "Covid 19 being a thousand times more likely to kill you than any side effects being suffered". That is simply an untrue statement or can you back that up with medical evidence?! We know the mortality rate of Covid 19 is 0.15%. Now the following is an excerpt from the studies done on the Astra Zeneca vaccine" One in 10 participants in the phase I/phase II study underwent blood monitoring and it was found that the neutrophils, types of white blood cells, had temporarily decreased in 46% of these people. According to Arvay, this neutropenia is an indication that the immune system is weakened by the vaccination" Now this is only one of the very few short term side effects. There have been reports of plenty other side effects... and who's to say that those won't turn into something more serious down the line, or that something will develop that can't be tested for yet or that is such a slow process it won't turn up for months, maybe years? I repeat again, swine flu has been associated with narcolepsy, a vaccine researched, manufactured and distributed in well under a year. Narcolepsy has seriously debilitating implications. There is no vaccine and no medication without side effects, some can be absolutely debilitating and lethal. And according to our constitutional rights, we have a choice on what we put in our bodies. I am not anti vaccine. I and my children are up to date on vaccines. But given the speed of the process for development, and given the fact that the US has given full liability immunity and Europe is set to follow with at least partial liability immunity for Pharma, I believe that there is way too much encouragement for gross negligence along the way. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a shit about anything bar making money. A glitch in vaccine where they are not even liable is going to do no harm as medication is always needed. Why don’t you actually read the Swine Flu investigation headed by the NHS. As with a number of childhood vaccination programmes the belief and reality are two very separate things. These ‘don’t give a shit statements’ are also crap... it’s the same bollox as professional footballers not caring about the game just the money, people study and practice their art for decades, they have a passion for their area of speciality and as I’m sure a number of ex wives and husbands of leading researchers will testify... they love their work more than anything else." Unlike you, I obviously don't have the trust in our systems because they have been shown again and again to be used and abused by those in power for self profit, power or whatever self serving reasons. I unfortunately don't have expertise in the medical field and wouldn't know where to start looking for discrepancies in any official studies or investigations carried out. Fact is that a government giving liability immunity does not give me a sense of assurance. That's me. I'm sure there are plenty proud and diligent in what they do, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of bad eggs either. Fact is every medication out there has side effects, some more detrimental than others. Fact is we have constitutional rights. Fact is these are being slowly eroded, according to some for the greater good, others believe that this is not going to be for the greater good. | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices. "You make your choices, you live with consequences. | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices. "You can break down almost any analogy if you try hard enough. People don't seem to understand that analogies aren't used to say 'these two things are 100% the same!', they're used to make a specific point. The point here is that you don't get to indulge in behaviour that puts other people at risk just because you want to. That you have an option to drink without driving doesn't counter that point, it's entirely irrelevant. | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences."You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here. Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?! | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences.
You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here.
Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?!"You vaccinate, you go to events. You don't, you stay home. Choice | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences.
You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here.
Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?!
You vaccinate, you go to events.
You don't, you stay home.
Choice "Playing devils advocate here, is it fair to discriminate on those who haven’t had a vaccine? Is this going to create even more division in a society that seems to becoming more and more divided? | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences.
You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here.
Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?!
You vaccinate, you go to events.
You don't, you stay home.
Choice
Playing devils advocate here, is it fair to discriminate on those who haven’t had a vaccine? Is this going to create even more division in a society that seems to becoming more and more divided? "People who haven't been vaccinated/ don't have immunity. The too young, the too old. Those for whom the vaccine didn't work. Those too medically vulnerable to be vaccinated. Those who have relevant allergies or have had vaccine reactions in the past. These people are put at risk by those who choose not to vaccinate. Those who choose not to vaccinate are not a protected class. | |||
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"Some will choose not to and I understand and respect their decision. I was referring to those who won’t have had it for any number of reasons eg availability, cost and so on. 7 billion (and climbing) vaccinations will take a long time to administer. " Yes. I don't know how inequality to access will be handled, but I prioritise "vulnerable to infection/can't be vaccinated" over "I don't want to", assuming all else is equal. It's a choice. Vaccinate or don't. Vaccination comes with (small) risks, and potentially large benefits. Society has long determined that those liable to spread serious disease should have restrictions placed upon them. Not vaccinating could have costs beyond susceptibility to illness. Choosing to be part of the problem not the solution. Without vaccines, our best defence is social distancing. | |||
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"Those who can’t or haven’t had a vaccination will just have to accept they can’t enjoy the privileges of those who have. The connotations are concerning. " Why? Don't pay for the BBC license, don't watch the BBC. Don't pay for a ticket to a gig, don't go to a gig. Don't pay for site support, don't get site support. Don't do your bit to bring a ruinous pandemic to an end, don't be allowed to spread disease at optional activities. | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences.
You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here.
Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?!
You vaccinate, you go to events.
You don't, you stay home.
Choice
Playing devils advocate here, is it fair to discriminate on those who haven’t had a vaccine? Is this going to create even more division in a society that seems to becoming more and more divided? "My point exactly! Thank you. I vote, no, it isn't fair. But then, life's a bitch, right. It isn't fair. And the one thing I can agree with you on wholeheartedly is the social divide you speak of. I find these extreme views on either end of the debate highly worrying! If there is an ultimate agenda, it's certainly on its very best path, simply with this societal divide! Roosevelt: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself". And fear is the tool of tyrants. | |||
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"I was sent a vid of a Bill Gates interview about not being able to attend mass gatherings and events without being vaccinated. Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times." Naturally, sure bill gates stands to make trillions from his vaccines | |||
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"Those who can’t or haven’t had a vaccination will just have to accept they can’t enjoy the privileges of those who have. The connotations are concerning. Why? Don't pay for the BBC license, don't watch the BBC. Don't pay for a ticket to a gig, don't go to a gig. Don't pay for site support, don't get site support. Don't do your bit to bring a ruinous pandemic to an end, don't be allowed to spread disease at optional activities." I personally think there are far too many variables in life for this to be managed. I should never have read anything by George Orwell!! | |||
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"But your analogy is flawed as an individual is excluded from drinking and driving but that does not mean they cant drink if they are a driver who is prepared to find an alternative means of transport home. What is being suggested is that if you do not have the vaccine then you will be excluded from many social events and gatherings and you have no alternative choices.
You make your choices, you live with consequences.
You're not given a choice in the first place is what the previous poster is trying to say, I believe, as vaccination or proof of immunity may need to be submitted. Even this in itself may be unconstitutional at this point in time, as there is discrimination implied here.
Is the future and in fact the here and now really only that the human race is only ever going to be seen as a breeding ground for infection?! So all those taking risk of vaccination will be favoured above all as opposed to those who prefer to not take risk on vaccine or prefer to take risk on a disease with a mortality rate of 0.15%?!
You vaccinate, you go to events.
You don't, you stay home.
Choice
Playing devils advocate here, is it fair to discriminate on those who haven’t had a vaccine? Is this going to create even more division in a society that seems to becoming more and more divided?
My point exactly! Thank you. I vote, no, it isn't fair.
But then, life's a bitch, right. It isn't fair.
And the one thing I can agree with you on wholeheartedly is the social divide you speak of. I find these extreme views on either end of the debate highly worrying!
If there is an ultimate agenda, it's certainly on its very best path, simply with this societal divide!
Roosevelt: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
And fear is the tool of tyrants."Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? | |||
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"Those who can’t or haven’t had a vaccination will just have to accept they can’t enjoy the privileges of those who have. The connotations are concerning. Why? Don't pay for the BBC license, don't watch the BBC. Don't pay for a ticket to a gig, don't go to a gig. Don't pay for site support, don't get site support. Don't do your bit to bring a ruinous pandemic to an end, don't be allowed to spread disease at optional activities. I personally think there are far too many variables in life for this to be managed. I should never have read anything by George Orwell!! " Sure. Nothing is simple. But if we're looking at "bring pandemic to an end and allow vulnerable people a normal life" versus "those who choose not to be vaccinated* don't get to partake in optional leisure activities"... It's not even a question for me. * In the hypothetical I envision, there would be exemptions for *medical* reasons as determined by the NHS. | |||
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"So... If we don't restrict those who aren't vaccinated, the choice of those who *can't* be vaccinated is "lock myself up forever or risk a horrible death or long term disability". And yes, terms and conditions on entry to totally optional entertainment is indeed tyranny. Instead of... entirely normal and a thing that already exists. If that makes anti vaxxers mad, I really don't care." You’ll be vaccinated so nothing to worry about! | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? " Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. | |||
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"So... If we don't restrict those who aren't vaccinated, the choice of those who *can't* be vaccinated is "lock myself up forever or risk a horrible death or long term disability". And yes, terms and conditions on entry to totally optional entertainment is indeed tyranny. Instead of... entirely normal and a thing that already exists. If that makes anti vaxxers mad, I really don't care. You’ll be vaccinated so nothing to worry about! " One, I don't just care about myself, I also care about those who can't be vaccinated through no fault of their own. Two, not all vaccines work in all people. The more people are immunised, the more people are protected. And the more we can get society moving again away from the economic disaster this pandemic has been. It's not about me. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap." That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. " Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis?" I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. " I've been following the anti vax movement for over a decade. The vaccines that exist are using technology that's existed for a long time (the "new" mRNA technology first came into being in 1990), using established mechanisms of vaccination (take a disease, weaken/kill or use part of it, to provoke the immune system to be able to deal with a disease with less or no illness an he less likely to pass it on). Ultimately I trust the process. Not the vaccine, not the companies. Research is done (according to certain scientific, ethical, and safety standards), it's checked by independent experts. More research is done, and ditto. Then government agencies tasked with ensuring our safety look over the data gathered and see if it's safe and for whom. This information is all out there. While I appreciate that this is a lot and is intimidating, that's not a reason to doubt a process which has saved hundreds of millions of lives and allows us a quality of life, largely without fear, that our ancestors (perhaps even parents or grandparents) could not have dreamed possible. | |||
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"From where do you all get your information? How do you all know so much about what's happening and what's going to happen in the future? " On legal restrictions, I'm arguing hypotheticals. | |||
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"From where do you all get your information? How do you all know so much about what's happening and what's going to happen in the future? " Reputable scientific journals are the only credible sources of information | |||
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"From where do you all get your information? How do you all know so much about what's happening and what's going to happen in the future? Reputable scientific journals are the only credible sources of information " Or people who can be trusted to distill it. I listen to This Week in Virology, for example. It's nowhere near as good as reading and comprehending the relevant literature, but it's accessible for those who can't. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. I've been following the anti vax movement for over a decade. The vaccines that exist are using technology that's existed for a long time (the "new" mRNA technology first came into being in 1990), using established mechanisms of vaccination (take a disease, weaken/kill or use part of it, to provoke the immune system to be able to deal with a disease with less or no illness an he less likely to pass it on). Ultimately I trust the process. Not the vaccine, not the companies. Research is done (according to certain scientific, ethical, and safety standards), it's checked by independent experts. More research is done, and ditto. Then government agencies tasked with ensuring our safety look over the data gathered and see if it's safe and for whom. This information is all out there. While I appreciate that this is a lot and is intimidating, that's not a reason to doubt a process which has saved hundreds of millions of lives and allows us a quality of life, largely without fear, that our ancestors (perhaps even parents or grandparents) could not have dreamed possible." Covid has been a godsend for the antivaxxers. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. I've been following the anti vax movement for over a decade. The vaccines that exist are using technology that's existed for a long time (the "new" mRNA technology first came into being in 1990), using established mechanisms of vaccination (take a disease, weaken/kill or use part of it, to provoke the immune system to be able to deal with a disease with less or no illness an he less likely to pass it on). Ultimately I trust the process. Not the vaccine, not the companies. Research is done (according to certain scientific, ethical, and safety standards), it's checked by independent experts. More research is done, and ditto. Then government agencies tasked with ensuring our safety look over the data gathered and see if it's safe and for whom. This information is all out there. While I appreciate that this is a lot and is intimidating, that's not a reason to doubt a process which has saved hundreds of millions of lives and allows us a quality of life, largely without fear, that our ancestors (perhaps even parents or grandparents) could not have dreamed possible." You make a fair point if slightly demanding. I hope and I’m sure you are correct and I’m not doubting your knowledge in the slightest. It is all hypothetical at the moment and I I am concerned where this will all lead to. I do however keep going back to the bat soup! If I’m supposed to believe this was started by bat soup then I can be convinced of anything. | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. I've been following the anti vax movement for over a decade. The vaccines that exist are using technology that's existed for a long time (the "new" mRNA technology first came into being in 1990), using established mechanisms of vaccination (take a disease, weaken/kill or use part of it, to provoke the immune system to be able to deal with a disease with less or no illness an he less likely to pass it on). Ultimately I trust the process. Not the vaccine, not the companies. Research is done (according to certain scientific, ethical, and safety standards), it's checked by independent experts. More research is done, and ditto. Then government agencies tasked with ensuring our safety look over the data gathered and see if it's safe and for whom. This information is all out there. While I appreciate that this is a lot and is intimidating, that's not a reason to doubt a process which has saved hundreds of millions of lives and allows us a quality of life, largely without fear, that our ancestors (perhaps even parents or grandparents) could not have dreamed possible. You make a fair point if slightly demanding. I hope and I’m sure you are correct and I’m not doubting your knowledge in the slightest. It is all hypothetical at the moment and I I am concerned where this will all lead to. I do however keep going back to the bat soup! If I’m supposed to believe this was started by bat soup then I can be convinced of anything. "It was started by bat soup? Lol that's just a batshit crazy conspiracy | |||
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" Create division and fear seems to be the modus operandi bit to what end?? Most prominent anti vaxxers have an online store of stuff that'll cure your vaccine poisoning or totally (meanies won't let us say cure but wink wink nudge nudge cure) Covid-19. That's the end. Sell you crap. That’s what life is all about, buying and selling crap! Nothing changes and I just get an armful of chemicals. Check out the safety regulations they go through versus what vaccines go through. And then look at accepted safe levels of contaminants in food and water, or the chemical composition on a bottle of water. Google the chemicals in pears or the radiation in bananas Realise everything contains chemicals. Or are vaccines different somehow, and on what rational basis? I’m not an anti vaxxer as such, I’m trying to look at it from a layman’s point of view and I’m genuinely playing devils advocate. I am sceptical about a vaccination that is mass produced for a lethal disease that started in a bowl of bat soup and didn’t exist twelve months ago and the place where it originated has seemingly destroyed any evidence it ever existed. I appreciate you have your opinion. I've been following the anti vax movement for over a decade. The vaccines that exist are using technology that's existed for a long time (the "new" mRNA technology first came into being in 1990), using established mechanisms of vaccination (take a disease, weaken/kill or use part of it, to provoke the immune system to be able to deal with a disease with less or no illness an he less likely to pass it on). Ultimately I trust the process. Not the vaccine, not the companies. Research is done (according to certain scientific, ethical, and safety standards), it's checked by independent experts. More research is done, and ditto. Then government agencies tasked with ensuring our safety look over the data gathered and see if it's safe and for whom. This information is all out there. While I appreciate that this is a lot and is intimidating, that's not a reason to doubt a process which has saved hundreds of millions of lives and allows us a quality of life, largely without fear, that our ancestors (perhaps even parents or grandparents) could not have dreamed possible. You make a fair point if slightly demanding. I hope and I’m sure you are correct and I’m not doubting your knowledge in the slightest. It is all hypothetical at the moment and I I am concerned where this will all lead to. I do however keep going back to the bat soup! If I’m supposed to believe this was started by bat soup then I can be convinced of anything.
It was started by bat soup?
Lol that's just a batshit crazy conspiracy "Or is it??? My attempt at humour clearly failed. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. " From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. " Oh goodness I'm flattered, thank you 
Some anti vaxxers I get. It's hard and it's scary. Some are genuinely frauds who put lives at risk for profit.
Accessibility of information is actually a question I've been pondering a lot lately. How to get information through. (I'm not a scientist and I'm in no way qualified. I'm just a geek who learns when she gets scared. I've been listening to virology and related podcasts since March trying to get my head around stuff) | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. " Especially when it's misinformation from the media. The perpetrators didn't spend years and millions working on this virus in the Wuhan lab to then let bloody stupid bats take the credit for it. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Especially when it's misinformation from the media. The perpetrators didn't spend years and millions working on this virus in the Wuhan lab to then let bloody stupid bats take the credit for it." Got any evidence for that? | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Oh goodness I'm flattered, thank you
Some anti vaxxers I get. It's hard and it's scary. Some are genuinely frauds who put lives at risk for profit.
Accessibility of information is actually a question I've been pondering a lot lately. How to get information through. (I'm not a scientist and I'm in no way qualified. I'm just a geek who learns when she gets scared. I've been listening to virology and related podcasts since March trying to get my head around stuff)"You’re welcome, I’ve read so much conflicting information I’m not sure who or what to believe about it so I take no umbrage in asking questions and trying to look at it from others point of view and not just my own. All you can do is absorb the info and heed advice if necessary. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Especially when it's misinformation from the media. The perpetrators didn't spend years and millions working on this virus in the Wuhan lab to then let bloody stupid bats take the credit for it." Are the perpetrators the zombies I read about | |||
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" You’re welcome, I’ve read so much conflicting information I’m not sure who or what to believe about it so I take no umbrage in asking questions and trying to look at it from others point of view and not just my own. All you can do is absorb the info and heed advice if necessary. " It's a fast moving situation and it's unusual in that the experts started from near zero and the learning process has been way more public than is usually the case. The process of "see a thing, test a thing, get it wrong a bunch until you get it right" is normal (the scientific method, I'm being slightly tongue in cheek with my description). It's how anything is discovered. But normally doesn't happen in the spotlight like this. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Especially when it's misinformation from the media. The perpetrators didn't spend years and millions working on this virus in the Wuhan lab to then let bloody stupid bats take the credit for it. Are the perpetrators the zombies I read about" One prominent anti vaxxer blames Martians. I'm not joking. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Especially when it's misinformation from the media. The perpetrators didn't spend years and millions working on this virus in the Wuhan lab to then let bloody stupid bats take the credit for it. Are the perpetrators the zombies I read about One prominent anti vaxxer blames Martians. I'm not joking." There’s nothing wrong with asking ridiculous questions but I think they’re taking the piss | |||
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" There’s nothing wrong with asking ridiculous questions but I think they’re taking the piss "Ridiculous questions are fine. Spreading total bollocks and claiming it's reality... isn't. | |||
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" There’s nothing wrong with asking ridiculous questions but I think they’re taking the piss
Ridiculous questions are fine.
Spreading total bollocks and claiming it's reality... isn't. "Yup. | |||
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"Bat soup isn't where we are now... Genetic sequencing of bats in the area determines, according to one paper I heard about, that ancestors of this virus have existed in nearby caves for decades. The market is where the outbreak was detected, possibly the first large breakout, and if I understand/recall correctly, it may have been in humans for months beforehand. I'm not sure anyone has seriously suggested it came from "bat soup", that's just sensationalism. It jumped from bats to humans (possibly via another source) sometime last year. Jumps of disease from animals happen all the time, it's just most don't get far. SARS came from bats, MERS came from camels (possibly originally from bats), HIV from non human primates. Smallpox I think came from cows. From this then is it the media that is to blame for the sensationalism and unclear facts surrounding the virus that causes confusion and questioning? Not everyone has the access or will attempt to access the facts you are reading. you’ve made more sense in a forum post than most media outlets have since it started. This is why I can appreciate the anti vaxxers side as well, sometimes too much information isn’t helpful. Oh goodness I'm flattered, thank you
Some anti vaxxers I get. It's hard and it's scary. Some are genuinely frauds who put lives at risk for profit.
Accessibility of information is actually a question I've been pondering a lot lately. How to get information through. (I'm not a scientist and I'm in no way qualified. I'm just a geek who learns when she gets scared. I've been listening to virology and related podcasts since March trying to get my head around stuff)"The accessibility of the information is a genuine problem, but is very difficult for the scientific establishment to balance, particularly in the presence of malicious misinformation vendors. The scientists themselves (counting myself into this camp although for years now working in tech not pure science) try to use extremely precise language, painstakingly detail their process and findings, and not make unsupportable claims. Rather than saying something is a fact, it will be described as being in agreement with theory such-and-such. Results might be statistically significant to the five sigma limit. Etc. Unfortunately this often makes it difficult for non-scientists to follow. Media pick on words such as "theory" to cast doubt on research - "oh DNA is only a theory, they haven't proved it" - but in scientific parlance a theory is something that is as close to cast-iron guaranteed as can ever be. (Maybe need a separate thread about science meaning of words vs common parlance). In contrast, the misinformation vendors can make big bold claims, use snappy language and appeal to emotion. Talk "common sense" and "everybody knows that". Medical research: "studies show that minor inflammation may occur in up to 0.01% of patients, more serious side effects not statistically quantifiable". Anti-vaxxers: "they don't even know how many people it will kill!". But if scientists try to put the information across in a simpler form, there is an immediate outcry that "they're making big claims but hiding the details!". There are no easy answers to the problem... | |||
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"Also Ticketmaster reportedly planning a mandatory Covid testing policy for concert attendance. Worrying times. Oh yeah, worrying times indeed... So, say for instance ‘Glastonbury’, imagine all those attendees being asked to take the minimal risk of a vaccination in order to attend... placing a chemical formula in their body in an attempt to protect it from a virus that is far more likely to kill you than any side effects from a vaccination that has been through the most stringent testing protocol we have within our society. Now forgive me if I’m mistaken but won’t 1,000’s of those attendees choose to fill their lungs with cigarette smoke, drink a huge amount of alcohol which we know is the cause of massive health issues in our society. Won’t several of them in attendance decide to neck a few e’s, snort , smoke dope or whatever else... I trust dealer dave has gone through a stringent testing process whilst cutting his ketamine with talcum powder, baby formula or any other suitable powder. I think perhaps people need to look a bit more closely at this “terrible” risk in receiving a vaccine... in reality once the process it is required to us completed you will have a vaccine which in comparison covid-19 will be thousands more times likely to kill you than you suffering any side effects. The key you mentioned there is "choose to fill their lungs with...". They make a conscious choice. I'm not saying their choice is right, quite the opposite actually. I would say that those people who choose to do those things at a gig, know how harmful they are to their bodies. The evidence and research has been out there for years unlike the information being gathered in clinical trials on vaccines where mid and long term effects cannot possibly be seen yet! I'm not saying that makes it right. The reality is that cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and fast food and processed foods contribute to premature death and associated diseases resulting in premature death, yet you don't see the government pumping money into these health problems, and you don't see restrictions imposed, no, instead alcohol and cigarettes are taxed for revenue... And I take offense to the very generalised statement of "Covid 19 being a thousand times more likely to kill you than any side effects being suffered". That is simply an untrue statement or can you back that up with medical evidence?! We know the mortality rate of Covid 19 is 0.15%. Now the following is an excerpt from the studies done on the Astra Zeneca vaccine" One in 10 participants in the phase I/phase II study underwent blood monitoring and it was found that the neutrophils, types of white blood cells, had temporarily decreased in 46% of these people. According to Arvay, this neutropenia is an indication that the immune system is weakened by the vaccination" Now this is only one of the very few short term side effects. There have been reports of plenty other side effects... and who's to say that those won't turn into something more serious down the line, or that something will develop that can't be tested for yet or that is such a slow process it won't turn up for months, maybe years? I repeat again, swine flu has been associated with narcolepsy, a vaccine researched, manufactured and distributed in well under a year. Narcolepsy has seriously debilitating implications. There is no vaccine and no medication without side effects, some can be absolutely debilitating and lethal. And according to our constitutional rights, we have a choice on what we put in our bodies. I am not anti vaccine. I and my children are up to date on vaccines. But given the speed of the process for development, and given the fact that the US has given full liability immunity and Europe is set to follow with at least partial liability immunity for Pharma, I believe that there is way too much encouragement for gross negligence along the way. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a shit about anything bar making money. A glitch in vaccine where they are not even liable is going to do no harm as medication is always needed. Why don’t you actually read the Swine Flu investigation headed by the NHS. As with a number of childhood vaccination programmes the belief and reality are two very separate things. These ‘don’t give a shit statements’ are also crap... it’s the same bollox as professional footballers not caring about the game just the money, people study and practice their art for decades, they have a passion for their area of speciality and as I’m sure a number of ex wives and husbands of leading researchers will testify... they love their work more than anything else. Unlike you, I obviously don't have the trust in our systems because they have been shown again and again to be used and abused by those in power for self profit, power or whatever self serving reasons. I unfortunately don't have expertise in the medical field and wouldn't know where to start looking for discrepancies in any official studies or investigations carried out. Fact is that a government giving liability immunity does not give me a sense of assurance. That's me. I'm sure there are plenty proud and diligent in what they do, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of bad eggs either. Fact is every medication out there has side effects, some more detrimental than others. Fact is we have constitutional rights. Fact is these are being slowly eroded, according to some for the greater good, others believe that this is not going to be for the greater good." I’ll be honest... I scanned your response and it continued the word fact too many times to present a credible argument, I therefore switched off. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, more fool you x | |||
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"Just above ^ perfect example. Much detail, too long. Science - lots of words. " | |||
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"I think some sort of validation/verification method is going to be needed for us all in the future. perhaps a card similar to a credit card? You swipe it to get into places, restaurants, pubs, outdoor events etc .. assuming you are covid/anything not nice free and you have evidence of being vaccinated you get to have entry to places and if not you don't. That makes sense and I think it would reassure me that everyone around me was reasonably safe and then I would be too. In the longer term, I can see a swab or a sample of some sort of test before being allowed to go anywhere that there may be a lot of people being part of everyday living. If a test can get results now in 30 minutes I imagine it won't be long before we can get results in 5 minutes. That makes the whole thing very feasible in my view. I understand the people who don't want their tests done or to have vaccinations. Though I am sorry to say I don't agree with them one bit. Those people can, by all means, refuse etc though would then have to agree to be excluded from places that a lot of people go to. This seems a very easy solution to everything ' lockdown ' related .. we won't need one if everyone is getting tested a few times a day now will we? I genuinely believe we all have to start just accepting things now. Otherwise, we will be no further will all this in a years time than we are now. I understand people are 'frightened' concerned about DNA sampling and the like and people holding your information etc on file .. but the truth is that's been happening to all of us for years so they probably have all they need! I for one can't really think I will be okay after another series of lockdowns my head won't take it and neither will my bank balance. Remember for a lot of us there is less government support every time we have a lockdown than the last time! I don't really understand the science and the fact everyone is trying to disprove things all the time. Its just a better idea For the good, of everyone please get vaccinated get tested and let us all get a chance to move on .
"Yes. We live a life free of the fear of, say, measles, because most of us get vaccinated against measles. (Measles is way more contagious than Covid-19) Measles is not a trivial disease. If vaccine levels wane, we're put at risk again. We live a life free of the fear of smallpox because enough of us were vaccinated around the world to actually eradicate it. We're working on it with polio. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." Paul couldn't work abroad without his little vaccination book. Can't see any difference getting a Covid jab. I had to get 4 jabs to join Paul abroad some years ago, it wasn't open for discussion, no jabs, no go. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Paul couldn't work abroad without his little vaccination book. Can't see any difference getting a Covid jab. I had to get 4 jabs to join Paul abroad some years ago, it wasn't open for discussion, no jabs, no go." Yep. Most of the countries I work in require your vacation book. But then again I've forgot mine on occasion and its normally been wavered by a dash of some sort. I'm surprised we don't have a digital card yet which is updated everytime you are vaccinated. This could be tied in with passport details. | |||
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Or that thing that seems to act as an alternative vaccine card....US dollars | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Paul couldn't work abroad without his little vaccination book. Can't see any difference getting a Covid jab. I had to get 4 jabs to join Paul abroad some years ago, it wasn't open for discussion, no jabs, no go. Yep. Most of the countries I work in require your vacation book. But then again I've forgot mine on occasion and its normally been wavered by a dash of some sort. I'm surprised we don't have a digital card yet which is updated everytime you are vaccinated. This could be tied in with passport details. " My vaccination records pre 24... I don't know if they exist. I'd be happy to be tested for immunity or re-jabbed if appropriate. | |||
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"Some of the places he goes a rubber stamp is state of the art.
Or that thing that seems to act as an alternative vaccine card....US dollars "That's the one | |||
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"Some of the places he goes a rubber stamp is state of the art.
Or that thing that seems to act as an alternative vaccine card....US dollars
That's the one "Remember him getting prescription from doctor, going to chemist and paying for the relevant little bottles of juice, back to doctor for the cocktail to be pumped in, back home with half empties and back a week later to have the rest pumped in...lol | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... " I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? " If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." Agreed! Ridiculous! X | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want "Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out. I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? " | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out.
I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated.
"My suspicion is that those who won't get vaccinated, when the rubber hits the road, is actually pretty low. Compliance with lockdown and community support seems to be quite high in surveys. Companies do seem to be willing to alienate the fringe. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out.
I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated.
My suspicion is that those who won't get vaccinated, when the rubber hits the road, is actually pretty low. Compliance with lockdown and community support seems to be quite high in surveys.
Companies do seem to be willing to alienate the fringe."We differ on that belief then. I believe people are rightly cautious and somewhat afraid of this vaccine. Something that in my opinion can only be changed with facts and reassurance. Not threats to exclude them from society because they want to be sure what is going into their bodies. | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out.
I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated.
My suspicion is that those who won't get vaccinated, when the rubber hits the road, is actually pretty low. Compliance with lockdown and community support seems to be quite high in surveys.
Companies do seem to be willing to alienate the fringe.We differ on that belief then. I believe people are rightly cautious and somewhat afraid of this vaccine. Something that in my opinion can only be changed with facts and reassurance. Not threats to exclude them from society because they want to be sure what is going into their bodies."A theoretical idea has been proposed, and Ticketmaster have apparently said (see above) that there's no plans to do this. There's plenty of good information out there about how vaccines work, how this vaccine in particular works, etc. As with anything online, there's also a lot of nonsense. I wish I knew how to get the information through to people. I really do. | |||
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"Is Bill Gates a contact of yours op? If not, beware because 1 of the biggest conspiracy theories of recent years has centred on his fantastic work but spun all kinds of lies, to manipulate people and their thinking. There are ways of checking the truth and facts as well as avoiding spam and keeping separate from inappropriate source material. There are now plans to increase the rollout of rapid testing, as was seen in Liverpool recently. They are an option for people to get to know whether they are putting others at potential risk, which nobody would want to do. Private businesses are at liberty to restrict customers entry, similar to bouncers at clubs. As with Fab, we have to adhere to a company's policies. We'd hope that it would affect a very tiny amount of people. And those who are early in their infection are amongst the highest risk to others for being infectious. As time goes on, improved treatment programmes are arriving, so it also means that anyone finding out that they are infected have the best prospects. Buyer beware, as ever Don't forget to mention his close personal and professional relationship with Jeff epstien. Wouldn't want a nugget like that escaping anyone's notice. "I wonder how many unsavoury characters you have or have had personal or professional relationships with, knowingly or not? Maybe you have an uncle with an undiscovered history of child sexually abuse, maybe you have a mate who took advantage of a women too d*unk to consent. Can’t condemn someone simply on the basis of the actions of a single associate! | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population." Why not? | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Why not? " Because its ludicrous?? X | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out.
I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated.
My suspicion is that those who won't get vaccinated, when the rubber hits the road, is actually pretty low. Compliance with lockdown and community support seems to be quite high in surveys.
Companies do seem to be willing to alienate the fringe.We differ on that belief then. I believe people are rightly cautious and somewhat afraid of this vaccine. Something that in my opinion can only be changed with facts and reassurance. Not threats to exclude them from society because they want to be sure what is going into their bodies.
A theoretical idea has been proposed, and Ticketmaster have apparently said (see above) that there's no plans to do this.
There's plenty of good information out there about how vaccines work, how this vaccine in particular works, etc. As with anything online, there's also a lot of nonsense. I wish I knew how to get the information through to people. I really do."Like I said the other day You can bring a fool to knowledge but you can't make it think | |||
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"It's simple, boycott all events so they'll think twice about that idea... I am not sure why you would want to do that? surely the boycott would be from anyone who was considered healthy and can prove it to stop those who were not or did not have a valid exemption certificate from entering the place. Realistically no one should really expect to be able to go to concerts, restaurants, pubs anymore etc where there are lots of people unless they have proof of being tested and are not covid positive. Otherwise, it's just pure selfishness really isn't it? Is it not better for those 'anti'mask, C19, Vaccine etc people to stay away /at home if they arent willing to help everyone else ensure each others safety ? If venues don't want people to go who aren't vaccinated against Covid-19... People who are against Covid-19 boycotting these venues is giving them what they want Given the current state of the economy I can't see any business, especially the greed merchant that is Ticketmaster excluding a massive part of its customer base due to being vaccinated or not. Money talks and I don't see many businesses being willing to lose out.
I read something about the vaccine earlier also that said the pfizer vaccine stops the disease, not the infection and they are not sure if you would still be contagious to some extent. If that's the case then it will help those vaccinated but won't do jack shit for those unable to be vaccinated.
My suspicion is that those who won't get vaccinated, when the rubber hits the road, is actually pretty low. Compliance with lockdown and community support seems to be quite high in surveys.
Companies do seem to be willing to alienate the fringe.We differ on that belief then. I believe people are rightly cautious and somewhat afraid of this vaccine. Something that in my opinion can only be changed with facts and reassurance. Not threats to exclude them from society because they want to be sure what is going into their bodies.
A theoretical idea has been proposed, and Ticketmaster have apparently said (see above) that there's no plans to do this.
There's plenty of good information out there about how vaccines work, how this vaccine in particular works, etc. As with anything online, there's also a lot of nonsense. I wish I knew how to get the information through to people. I really do.
Like I said the other day
You can bring a fool to knowledge but you can't make it think"Quite. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X" Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!!" Do you have any idea the risk profile of vaccines? How high - or, more to the point, low - the chances are of you getting anything worse than a sore arm and a bit of aches and pains for a few days? You're suggesting that you're too important to take a miniscule risk, but that the old and vulnerable should be (devil's advocate) sacrificed because you don't want to take a miniscule risk, a risk less than the disease itself. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!!" No, you are expected to get vaccinated to protect yourself from Covid. I remind you Long Covid is becoming a real issue in females 30+ with a good few thousand very healthy women now carrying irregular heart rates, long, liver, kidney damage etc If you want to look at percentage chances that is far more likely to occur than any side effect from a fully vetted vaccine. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!!" wow ! Omg how callous humans can be at times | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!!wow ! Omg how callous humans can be at times " oh I just said this to my friend. I'm too pissed off to reply. Yours was good enough. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! Do you have any idea the risk profile of vaccines? How high - or, more to the point, low - the chances are of you getting anything worse than a sore arm and a bit of aches and pains for a few days? You're suggesting that you're too important to take a miniscule risk, but that the old and vulnerable should be (devil's advocate) sacrificed because you don't want to take a miniscule risk, a risk less than the disease itself." I understand the risks are low for vaccines which are well established and have been administered for years. Just like we know the mortality rate of Covid is 0.15 %. You're suggesting that those 0.15% are more important than those who may be at risk of the mid and long term side effects which cannot possibly be known yet! As far as I'm aware some of the technology used here for Covid in these new vaccines being trialled are quite new and different. As I said, devils advocate, I have plenty of time to do my much more detailed research when vaccines have been passed and are peer reviewed. I have concerns and clearly stated in a previous post that I am not anti vaccine and am very much up to date as are my children. | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! No, you are expected to get vaccinated to protect yourself from Covid. I remind you Long Covid is becoming a real issue in females 30+ with a good few thousand very healthy women now carrying irregular heart rates, long, liver, kidney damage etc If you want to look at percentage chances that is far more likely to occur than any side effect from a fully vetted vaccine. " Yes, I am aware of long Covid and it does worry me! Absolutely, it is terrifying. Why do you think I would get stressed otherwise at trying to find the best, healthiest and least risk option for my loved ones and myself?! I am not a heartless cow!!! | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! No, you are expected to get vaccinated to protect yourself from Covid. I remind you Long Covid is becoming a real issue in females 30+ with a good few thousand very healthy women now carrying irregular heart rates, long, liver, kidney damage etc If you want to look at percentage chances that is far more likely to occur than any side effect from a fully vetted vaccine. Yes, I am aware of long Covid and it does worry me! Absolutely, it is terrifying. Why do you think I would get stressed otherwise at trying to find the best, healthiest and least risk option for my loved ones and myself?! I am not a heartless cow!!!" It should worry you, it’s a massive risk compared to a vaccination. No idea where heartless came from, I’ve never suggested that | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! Do you have any idea the risk profile of vaccines? How high - or, more to the point, low - the chances are of you getting anything worse than a sore arm and a bit of aches and pains for a few days? You're suggesting that you're too important to take a miniscule risk, but that the old and vulnerable should be (devil's advocate) sacrificed because you don't want to take a miniscule risk, a risk less than the disease itself. I understand the risks are low for vaccines which are well established and have been administered for years. Just like we know the mortality rate of Covid is 0.15 %. You're suggesting that those 0.15% are more important than those who may be at risk of the mid and long term side effects which cannot possibly be known yet! As far as I'm aware some of the technology used here for Covid in these new vaccines being trialled are quite new and different. As I said, devils advocate, I have plenty of time to do my much more detailed research when vaccines have been passed and are peer reviewed. I have concerns and clearly stated in a previous post that I am not anti vaccine and am very much up to date as are my children." I suggest that those who are at high risk of dying, or being disabled - which is maybe a third or half of the population? - should be considered over those who are unwilling to take a teeny tiny risk in the fight against the disease. They haven't pulled these vaccines out of their arses and safety trials are ongoing. You are saying that possibly half of the population should be fearful of death or lock themselves up forever because you don't want to take a one in (probably) millions chance that something might go wrong (and don't want the protection from a vaccine). Only a small fraction of that half of the population will die, true. Some will be ok. And some will become disabled. And some outside that half of the population will die or become disabled. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So it's a case of be a good little drone and take your jab no questions asked or stay locked up forever? I can't see that flying with a good percentage of the population. Agreed! Ridiculous! X Look, I'm all for protecting the elderly and vulnerable. I adhere to the guidelines as such. The argument I see a lot here is that it is up to all of us to adhere to the guidelines put in place to protect those more susceptible to the virus, and the hospital system, which is obviously for the general population too. So point very much taken. The thing that gets me most in this is the general attitude that it's expected by a lot of individuals here that it's up to the healthy individuals who can take the vaccine to take it, at all costs, to protect those who are too vulnerable to take it themselves. So in other words, I as a healthy individual with no knowledge of underlying conditions, am expected to put all of my worries and fears about possible side effects aside, to get vaccinated so that all of those in high risk groups can sleep easy?! We're practically being told, we're the scum of the earth here for wanting to protect our own health so that we can look after ourselves and our families while putting our own minds, mental and physical health first. We're scum because apparently we don't have the greater good closer to our hearts than our own lives and families. There are those here, wishing us to get Covid, wanting us to sign DNRs, not wanting us to have access to hospitals in case of a personal medical crisis... because we have a different opinion and a different fear to others. To play devil's advocate, I can easily turn that around as we currently don't have a mandatory vaccination system in place, and say the following: Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who are the most costly in economic terms? So why in fact keep protecting them and just let them all die off? In the exact same way those of you who think we are scum and deserve nothing better than a horrible Covid death?! Isn't it the elderly and vulnerable who have put us into the position of having these new measures and into lockdown. Why on earth should we healthy people stand for that?! The way you vulnerables and those who want to protect the vulnerables stand to your opinions? We'd be a much healthier society in physical terms with the high risk groups gone. Like I said, devils advocate, I don't actually feel this way but I have genuine concerns over a vaccine brought to market so quickly!!! Ultimately initially this doesn't bear any weight as the elderly and vulnerable who can take the vaccine will receive it first for their protection along with frontline. So it'll be a while til I have to make an actual decision and more may be known. And God forbid, that it does cause detrimental side effects because we would be losing loved ones or having to look after those even more!!! No, you are expected to get vaccinated to protect yourself from Covid. I remind you Long Covid is becoming a real issue in females 30+ with a good few thousand very healthy women now carrying irregular heart rates, long, liver, kidney damage etc If you want to look at percentage chances that is far more likely to occur than any side effect from a fully vetted vaccine. Yes, I am aware of long Covid and it does worry me! Absolutely, it is terrifying. Why do you think I would get stressed otherwise at trying to find the best, healthiest and least risk option for my loved ones and myself?! I am not a heartless cow!!! It should worry you, it’s a massive risk compared to a vaccination. No idea where heartless came from, I’ve never suggested that" No, it was implied by other posters so I added it above, my apologies if you felt I targeted you. I am sincerely trying to make the best possible decisions in my life to protect my loved ones, myself and those around me. There is so much information out there, it's difficult to know what's real and true anymore. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same. I believe in the good in people. I believe that most do what they can to end this nightmare. And end it will soon, I hope. | |||
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