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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?"  | |||
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"And yet this graph shows a second wave and almost identical peaknthat isn't yet declining? https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+coronavirus&oq=sweden&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j46i433j0i433l3.3455j0j4&client=ms-android-huawei&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 " They do appear to be having local outbreaks but no general second wave?. | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?" This is also true of Denmark though and Portugal, Latvia, Lithuania?. Theres no mandatory mask wearing and no businesses closed, hairdressers, cinemas, cloth shops, restaurants and bars still open but with capacity limits and I believe in the summer there set to lower the capacity more if its needed. Schools are open but some sixth form and universities are online. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries" That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?" | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries" I read an article that suggested a main factor in this was a failure to protect care home residents appropriately (similar to the UK earlier in the year)? --- Also, maybe because Sweden never had an official Lockdown perhaps they are not seeing breaks and spikes in their infections but seeing more of a consistent pattern? Although it is very difficult (and not always very truthful or accurate) to compare country to country data. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. " Yes I'm not really into comparing countries either. I was more interested in why people think some countries seem to be avoiding a second wave, Sweden is just a more interesting country because it cannot be wrote off so quickly with masks and lockdowns as the reason. They do seem to be the only country in Europe with a very steady level of infections rather than what I see in most others with infections going up and down wildly. | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?" And possibly less people pissing about whining about their rights etc .. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. Yes I'm not really into comparing countries either. I was more interested in why people think some countries seem to be avoiding a second wave, Sweden is just a more interesting country because it cannot be wrote off so quickly with masks and lockdowns as the reason. They do seem to be the only country in Europe with a very steady level of infections rather than what I see in most others with infections going up and down wildly." You should really take a look at the graph showing daily new case infections for Sweden and rethink that last comment. Worldometer could be a good place to look. | |||
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"Sweden had 2 peaks as opposed to the uk's 1. Their first was april/may same as uk then a 2nd even bigger one in june/july, uks infections had dropped away by then. Their infections are rising now still lower than here but they seem about a week behind us. They have iniated localised lockdowns in sweden and the infection rate has dipped but too early to say if they have worked or just a blip. Their death rates although still higher than other nordic countries remain low. I guess that is due to having one of the highest spends per capita on health in the world plus they killed off a high proportion of their older people in the initial outbreak." So you think the depletion of susceptibles is true and the reason there deaths are now lower than neighbours?. Interesting  | |||
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"India is also interesting, there cases rose consistently right from the start right through a tight lockdown and then since mid September have dropped steadily what are they doing differently to get cases down?. " At a rough guess, they are coming to the end of the first peak like almost every other country in the world. That's what the graph looks like  | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. Yes I'm not really into comparing countries either. I was more interested in why people think some countries seem to be avoiding a second wave, Sweden is just a more interesting country because it cannot be wrote off so quickly with masks and lockdowns as the reason. They do seem to be the only country in Europe with a very steady level of infections rather than what I see in most others with infections going up and down wildly. You should really take a look at the graph showing daily new case infections for Sweden and rethink that last comment. Worldometer could be a good place to look." I'll try that, I've spent the morning looking at graphs from the outset in February. | |||
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"India is also interesting, there cases rose consistently right from the start right through a tight lockdown and then since mid September have dropped steadily what are they doing differently to get cases down?. At a rough guess, they are coming to the end of the first peak like almost every other country in the world. That's what the graph looks like "I was more interested in what's driving infections down since mid September What are they doing different? | |||
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"India is also interesting, there cases rose consistently right from the start right through a tight lockdown and then since mid September have dropped steadily what are they doing differently to get cases down?. At a rough guess, they are coming to the end of the first peak like almost every other country in the world. That's what the graph looks like
I was more interested in what's driving infections down since mid September
What are they doing different?"
Infections in sweden have been rising rapidly since begining of September. There has been a small drop the last few days no idea why. Could be a testing or statistical blip. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it." Less obesity in Asia too and some Asian countries (like Japan) have very healthy diets and overall better health into older age. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it." Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?." Maybe in India (or wherever) enough people have already been exposed to give them immunity. In a densely packed Indian slum with lots of younger people, I'd imagine plenty got infected first time around. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening?" Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening?" You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. | |||
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"Spain has had hardest lockdown, masks from the start Seems to have made absolutely no difference " You assume that none of the measures taken there made no difference?  Reductions earlier were random? The UK lockdown in the spring made no difference to infection levels and deaths here too? | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”." .....you may need to check your location before calling the dude out on his spelling  | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem "I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden. I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”." If you have no opinion or don't know you can simply state that or don't join in. No need for personal insults  | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. .....you may need to check your location before calling the dude out on his spelling "A clear misspelling is different from incorrect grammar. I have now corrected | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. .....you may need to check your location before calling the dude out on his spelling " | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?. Maybe in India (or wherever) enough people have already been exposed to give them immunity. In a densely packed Indian slum with lots of younger people, I'd imagine plenty got infected first time around." That's what was jumping out to me, maybe the levels have reached enough to stop the virus spreading rapidly. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. If you have no opinion or don't know you can simply state that or don't join in. No need for personal insults "Sweden is a very different culture to the UK’s, so to compare the spread of infection between our countries is pointless. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. .....you may need to check your location before calling the dude out on his spelling
A clear misspelling is different from incorrect grammar. I have now corrected "You know the answer, just don't come on the thread if your not interested in joining in any meaningful way. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done."What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ? | |||
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"There comes a time when you are digging hole that you need to stop digging because you can't get out. It's time to stop digging before it's too late. Sorry about the metaphor but sometimes you have to speak metaphorically to make your point. Can we please stop digging Prime minister "Is a hole ever too deep on a swingers forum | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done.
What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ?"Yes India seems to be strange to me, I couldn't find any new measures there'd done but infections seemed to drop very profoundly mid September and have done since, I was simply asking others on there thoughts why or if they knew of measures that I'd not seen that had brought down the high infections. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done.
What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ?
Yes India seems to be strange to me, I couldn't find any new measures there'd done but infections seemed to drop very profoundly mid September and have done since, I was simply asking others on there thoughts why or if they knew of measures that I'd not seen that had brought down the high infections."Can I suggest that you ask that on a forum somewhere that a proper expert might be able to give you a nice simple explaination because a swinger forum ain't cutting it ... And just to reply to your _riginal post, Sweden is experiencing a second wave as the graph clearly shows. Time for lunch ..... | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done.
What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ?
Yes India seems to be strange to me, I couldn't find any new measures there'd done but infections seemed to drop very profoundly mid September and have done since, I was simply asking others on there thoughts why or if they knew of measures that I'd not seen that had brought down the high infections.
Can I suggest that you ask that on a forum somewhere that a proper expert might be able to give you a nice simple explaination because a swinger forum ain't cutting it ...
And just to reply to your _riginal post, Sweden is experiencing a second wave as the graph clearly shows.
Time for lunch ....."This part of the forum is set apart for virus threads. It would appear to me that maybe your not happy about that and if that's the case take it up with management and don't take it out on me. Have a nice lunch | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/" Very interesting actually, thanks for sharing. | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/" That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post "The point of the article above is that there AREN'T any patterns to be seen. A lot depends on small numbers of "superspreader" events, which in themselves are random. We can't quantify everything, which is why biology is such an interesting science to me | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post
The point of the article above is that there AREN'T any patterns to be seen. A lot depends on small numbers of "superspreader" events, which in themselves are random. We can't quantify everything, which is why biology is such an interesting science to me "Yes good point,I do have a habit of looking for patterns due to my asperges. I'm try to refrain  | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post
The point of the article above is that there AREN'T any patterns to be seen. A lot depends on small numbers of "superspreader" events, which in themselves are random. We can't quantify everything, which is why biology is such an interesting science to me
Yes good point,I do have a habit of looking for patterns due to my asperges.
I'm try to refrain "Probably why all the people who have Asperger's that I know are physical scientists - geologists, physicists, mathematicians. I've not met an autistic biologist yet (that I know of). Asperger's is pretty close to home for us | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? " No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post
The point of the article above is that there AREN'T any patterns to be seen. A lot depends on small numbers of "superspreader" events, which in themselves are random. We can't quantify everything, which is why biology is such an interesting science to me
Yes good point,I do have a habit of looking for patterns due to my asperges.
I'm try to refrain
Probably why all the people who have Asperger's that I know are physical scientists - geologists, physicists, mathematicians. I've not met an autistic biologist yet (that I know of). Asperger's is pretty close to home for us "I work in logistics | |||
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"Some good ideas here https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ That article was very interesting and yes it might help with the patterns I've been seeing. Thanks for the post
The point of the article above is that there AREN'T any patterns to be seen. A lot depends on small numbers of "superspreader" events, which in themselves are random. We can't quantify everything, which is why biology is such an interesting science to me
Yes good point,I do have a habit of looking for patterns due to my asperges.
I'm try to refrain
Probably why all the people who have Asperger's that I know are physical scientists - geologists, physicists, mathematicians. I've not met an autistic biologist yet (that I know of). Asperger's is pretty close to home for us
I work in logistics "Biology is wonderfully illogical at times. S hates it too | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. " You really need to look at worldometer | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. You really need to look at worldometer" Worldometer shows a much less pronounced peak of case numbers in Sweden and that was in August. Their cases have increased again recently, with a bit of a peak on 23rd Oct, but their daily deaths remain really low and have plateaued since June/July. I'd suggest this means they're shielding their elderly and care home patients much more effectively - this was where the bulk of their deaths came from earlier in the pandemic. Presumably all the other factors we already discussed, such as population distribution and density, cultural norms and population age distribution. The largest group in Sweden is, according to Statista, the 25-34yrs group, who are statistically very low risk of dying. The largest group in the UK is 50-59 (the end of the baby boomer generation). This age group are much more likely to die, although still not the highest risk. | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. You really need to look at worldometer" I was, what I kept seeing is most other countries are experiencing a four,five to ten fold increase in cases giving them a big second wave, I don't know what's change there for that increase and yet Sweden cases still aren't getting that increase. Somebody posted a very interesting article though which has given me a different line of thought. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done.
What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ?
Yes India seems to be strange to me, I couldn't find any new measures there'd done but infections seemed to drop very profoundly mid September and have done since, I was simply asking others on there thoughts why or if they knew of measures that I'd not seen that had brought down the high infections.
Can I suggest that you ask that on a forum somewhere that a proper expert might be able to give you a nice simple explaination because a swinger forum ain't cutting it ...
And just to reply to your _riginal post, Sweden is experiencing a second wave as the graph clearly shows.
Time for lunch .....
This part of the forum is set apart for virus threads.
It would appear to me that maybe your not happy about that and if that's the case take it up with management and don't take it out on me.
Have a nice lunch "It really does defy logic when a person posts a question then ignores replies and launches an attack on those that try to point them towards other solutions Like someone said the other day it's a matter of attacking the opinion not the person. Lunch was great thanks | |||
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"Sweden hasn't had 1 static approach since the start of the epidemic. They have had local and national alterations to their strategy. Bars and clubs, where people gather, often in close proximity have, for example, been subject to restrictions through the year and remain in place. Sex venues have been affected by this too. Some similarities exist between the UK and Sweden but a major one is the trust and adherence that citizens have and give to their leaders. " A major difference between the uk and Sweden is trust and adherence Is what that should have said | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. You really need to look at worldometer I was, what I kept seeing is most other countries are experiencing a four,five to ten fold increase in cases giving them a big second wave, I don't know what's change there for that increase and yet Sweden cases still aren't getting that increase. Somebody posted a very interesting article though which has given me a different line of thought. "Sweden is around 5-6 times the number of infections in August so is the UK but then you don't want to compare Sweden to the UK so that might not be obvious to you. | |||
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"OP I think your _riginal question has been answered - Sweden’s geography, population density and culture are very different to many other countries, and at the moment their infection and death rates are considerably worse than their neighbours. Are you disputing any of that? No it was nothing to do with that, more why there's less of a second wave there now. You really need to look at worldometer I was, what I kept seeing is most other countries are experiencing a four,five to ten fold increase in cases giving them a big second wave, I don't know what's change there for that increase and yet Sweden cases still aren't getting that increase. Somebody posted a very interesting article though which has given me a different line of thought. "For reference new daily cases per million population Sept 2nd uk 21.1 Sweden 12.9 Norway 14.1 October 23rd Uk 304.7 Sweden 105.2 Norway 33.5 As you can see cases in sweden rising rapidly have gone up 10 fold in 7 weeks. | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?." Sweden are no further ahead than we are despite the fact that there are far less people there, each region is handled by a health advisor rather than directly by government most people do listen though and not try to prove things different. Only just been talking to a friend who's son is living there before anyone asks where I got my information from. | |||
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"According to the Guardian online today, Sweden has recorded a record high in new cases so I'm not sure where the OP is getting their information from? Fake news or misinformation" It doesn't really seem to be unusual. | |||
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"According to the Guardian online today, Sweden has recorded a record high in new cases so I'm not sure where the OP is getting their information from? Fake news or misinformation It doesn't really seem to be unusual." Their most recent high was October 23rd according to Worldometer, but it's incredibly variable day to day, not as consistent as UK cases each day. Not knowing the Swedish reporting model doesn't help eg do they report anything at weekends? Do they report every weekday? Etc. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries" Not as high as us, but they are 17th worst deaths per million of population. Their neighbors Finland are 96th and Norway 106th. The UK is 12th. Cal | |||
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"According to the Guardian online today, Sweden has recorded a record high in new cases so I'm not sure where the OP is getting their information from? Fake news or misinformation" Deaths have remained in single digits. That's all that counts. | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?." “........ So what's happening different with Sweden?....” ——————————————- Nothing different with Sweden compared to the rest of Europe Their cases are going up as well. Let’s compare their September figures with October. ——————————————- 5 September daily cases = 171 23 October daily cases = 1870 That’s quite a big increase within a 6 week period. —————————————— Also Sweden is experiencing far higher number of daily cases compared to its next door neighbours Norway & Finland. 23 October daily infection cases: Sweden = 1870 Finland = 219 Norway = 300 Sweden is not doing well at the moment, and at the moment they have started to consider local lockdowns just as some other countries in Europe are already doing. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? Honestly Sweden is not a country that you can remotely compare with the UK for all the reasons stated above. I think we should be banned from mentioning Sweden until after Covid. Comparisons with Germany, Italy, France etc and learning any lessons from them, no problem
I've already said I'm not trying to compare the UK to Sweden.
I was more interested in what others think in why Sweden's infection rates are different to most of Europes and this particular question was why there death rates haven't rose like others have done.
What's the difference between not wanting to compare sweden to the uk and wanting to compare sweden to the rest of Europe and then there's India ?
Yes India seems to be strange to me, I couldn't find any new measures there'd done but infections seemed to drop very profoundly mid September and have done since, I was simply asking others on there thoughts why or if they knew of measures that I'd not seen that had brought down the high infections."Maybe it's because India have stopped testing completely. Testing was poor from the beginning. The authorities have no idea what level of infection is previlant in the country. | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?. “........ So what's happening different with Sweden?....” ——————————————- Nothing different with Sweden compared to the rest of Europe Their cases are going up as well. Let’s compare their September figures with October. ——————————————- 5 September daily cases = 171 23 October daily cases = 1870 That’s quite a big increase within a 6 week period. —————————————— Also Sweden is experiencing far higher number of daily cases compared to its next door neighbours Norway & Finland. 23 October daily infection cases: Sweden = 1870 Finland = 219 Norway = 300 Sweden is not doing well at the moment, and at the moment they have started to consider local lockdowns just as some other countries in Europe are already doing. " They have had an average of about 3 deaths a day for the last month and it's not rising. How can you say they are not doing well? | |||
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"According to the Guardian online today, Sweden has recorded a record high in new cases so I'm not sure where the OP is getting their information from? Fake news or misinformation" No it was actually an article in the guardian about living with covid19 in Sweden last week that started me looking at its figures. | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?. “........ So what's happening different with Sweden?....” ——————————————- Nothing different with Sweden compared to the rest of Europe Their cases are going up as well. Let’s compare their September figures with October. ——————————————- 5 September daily cases = 171 23 October daily cases = 1870 That’s quite a big increase within a 6 week period. —————————————— Also Sweden is experiencing far higher number of daily cases compared to its next door neighbours Norway & Finland. 23 October daily infection cases: Sweden = 1870 Finland = 219 Norway = 300 Sweden is not doing well at the moment, and at the moment they have started to consider local lockdowns just as some other countries in Europe are already doing. They have had an average of about 3 deaths a day for the last month and it's not rising. How can you say they are not doing well?" “...... How can you say they are not doing well?.....” ———————————- Is the title of the thread talking about number of deaths, or is it discussing a second wave - (ie a rise in infections) ? Ans = it is discussing the latter - rise in infections. And that’s what I was referring to when I said Sweden is not doing well. And it’s not just me saying that; even Sweden knows that they are not doing well. That’s the reason why the city of Uppsala in Sweden has now gone into a localised lockdown. This is the first time they have had anything close to a lockdown since the start of the pandemic. And why do you think they are tightening restrictions even though the deaths are low ? Ans = because as infections rise, it will ultimately lead to more deaths. They already have the highest death rate per capita in the Nordics. They have probably learnt from their experience in Spring, hence tighter restrictions now to prevent more deaths. | |||
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"Spain has had hardest lockdown, masks from the start Seems to have made absolutely no difference " This is a ridiculous point. We know that covid-19 is spreading in the home (house parties, gatherings) and work place. Whilst public facing workers are wearing masks are others? Are people meeting in households wearing masks? | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?." Possible millions have died in the slums without being registered. Acknowledged by a few NGOs. If you know the conditions, proximity of each of the dwellings, the numbers in each dwelling, the primary illnesses are respiratory, the income is derived mainly from fields and construction work, then you'll appreciate that millions isn't as ridiculous as initially thought. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?. Maybe in India (or wherever) enough people have already been exposed to give them immunity. In a densely packed Indian slum with lots of younger people, I'd imagine plenty got infected first time around. That's what was jumping out to me, maybe the levels have reached enough to stop the virus spreading rapidly. " Immunity is being questioned here with recent studies (React-2 studies) that seem to indicate the antibodies are dropping too quickly to prevent reinfection. It's raising a lot of new questions. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?. Maybe in India (or wherever) enough people have already been exposed to give them immunity. In a densely packed Indian slum with lots of younger people, I'd imagine plenty got infected first time around. That's what was jumping out to me, maybe the levels have reached enough to stop the virus spreading rapidly. Immunity is being questioned here with recent studies (React-2 studies) that seem to indicate the antibodies are dropping too quickly to prevent reinfection. It's raising a lot of new questions." All that showed was that this Corona virus is acting like all the other Corona viruses, that could be a good thing but it's too early to say either way to be fair. | |||
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"You also need to look at the age demographics. Italy, Spain and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK, all have ageing populations with low birth rates. We have a lot of high risk people in Europe. India, the Middle East etc have a much younger population, less likely to die if infected and more likely to be asymptomatic even. I haven't looked at Sweden's age demographic, but that be part of it. Yes I looked at that the average age in India was 27 compared to 42 in the UK and that would explain there low death rate compared to cases but not why infections dropped in mid September?. I looked online and nothing new seemed to be implemented?. Maybe in India (or wherever) enough people have already been exposed to give them immunity. In a densely packed Indian slum with lots of younger people, I'd imagine plenty got infected first time around. That's what was jumping out to me, maybe the levels have reached enough to stop the virus spreading rapidly. Immunity is being questioned here with recent studies (React-2 studies) that seem to indicate the antibodies are dropping too quickly to prevent reinfection. It's raising a lot of new questions." Antibody mediated immunity is only one form of adaptive (specific) immune response. There are other immune system factors that may confer protection that are not being widely measured because it's frankly harder and more time consuming. The T-cell response is one of those things. | |||
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"Sweden have a far higher death rate than most countries That's correct and yet now there among the lowest!. What do you think is happening? You seem to have all the facts; certainly more than than anyone else. You tell us. Although I would have expected a virologist to have used “they’re” as opposed to “there”. .....you may need to check your location before calling the dude out on his spelling
A clear misspelling is different from incorrect grammar. I have now corrected ".....are you sure? | |||
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We are informed pretty well and companies have taken stances to ease everything.
I've also spent time in the UK recently and honestly don't know how you have all stayed sane, that's a credit to you all cos the powers that be don't seem to have a chuffing clue | |||
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"For people who are definitely not comparing the UK to Sweden there are a lot of people who seem to be completely obsessed with Sweden." But they have IKEA meatballs | |||
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"For people who are definitely not comparing the UK to Sweden there are a lot of people who seem to be completely obsessed with Sweden." It's bizarre. | |||
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"For people who are definitely not comparing the UK to Sweden there are a lot of people who seem to be completely obsessed with Sweden. But they have IKEA meatballs "And daim bars.. | |||
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"For people who are definitely not comparing the UK to Sweden there are a lot of people who seem to be completely obsessed with Sweden. It's bizarre." Is bizarre another word for stupid ? | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?" Definately | |||
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"For people who are definitely not comparing the UK to Sweden there are a lot of people who seem to be completely obsessed with Sweden. But they have IKEA meatballs "And ABBA. | |||
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"So, I live in Sweden. We are having a bit of a mini spike but nothing like reported in other countries. For deaths, this was down to not helping the elderly. Care homes account for something like 75% of covid deaths in Sweden. But swedes naturally social distance, its normal to them to not socialise in each others houses, I've been here for a few years and other than 1 neighbour I've only been into the house of other non swedes. Pubs and restaurant are still functioning but Stockholm and Gothenberg have high numbers of cases and have operated accordingly but I still go the pub to watch the match. It's also very very easy to get a test here, I had one and it happened in a carpark off a motorway
We are informed pretty well and companies have taken stances to ease everything.
I've also spent time in the UK recently and honestly don't know how you have all stayed sane, that's a credit to you all cos the powers that be don't seem to have a chuffing clue "Interesting points thanks for the post. | |||
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"Actually Sweden have announced today that they are on the cusps of a second wave. " Let's hope not | |||
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"Actually Sweden have announced today that they are on the cusps of a second wave. Let's hope not "It’s already happening. They have recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections. | |||
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"Actually Sweden have announced today that they are on the cusps of a second wave. Let's hope not
It’s already happening.
They have recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections."I think the guy running there epidemic management predicted small localised outbreaks of some intensity to be fair to him!. | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions" Huh? How is 40% under tier 3? | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions" Didn't I see you wrote that you didn't want to compare sweden and the UK ? Back up this thread the other day wasn't it ? | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?" . I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions." Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? " I don't think there is any in Europe, they all seem to be mismanaging it long term if you ask me. | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? I don't think there is any in Europe, they all seem to be mismanaging it long term if you ask me. " They will of course see it differently, in time we will have the wonder of hindsight.. Personally and professionally I've always gone with the mantra of plan b and plan c if needed when dealing with something, possibly too simplistic a mechanism for something so big.. | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions." Yet you keep saying that you are not comparing Sweden with the U.K. In reality you are making a comparison, you are just doing it in subtle ways, hoping no one will notice. If you want to know how Sweden is faring on with its strategy; then compare Sweden with its neighbours: Norway & Finland. | |||
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"So, I live in Sweden. We are having a bit of a mini spike but nothing like reported in other countries. For deaths, this was down to not helping the elderly. Care homes account for something like 75% of covid deaths in Sweden. But swedes naturally social distance, its normal to them to not socialise in each others houses, I've been here for a few years and other than 1 neighbour I've only been into the house of other non swedes. Pubs and restaurant are still functioning but Stockholm and Gothenberg have high numbers of cases and have operated accordingly but I still go the pub to watch the match. It's also very very easy to get a test here, I had one and it happened in a carpark off a motorway
We are informed pretty well and companies have taken stances to ease everything.
I've also spent time in the UK recently and honestly don't know how you have all stayed sane, that's a credit to you all cos the powers that be don't seem to have a chuffing clue "You are deluded. Sweden is 12th worst death rate in the world | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? I don't think there is any in Europe, they all seem to be mismanaging it long term if you ask me. " Are you so psychologically invested in the argument that the Swedish response to Covid19 was better than ours that you just can’t let it go? It’s a swingers forum on the internet mate, even if tomorrow we wake up and there are no cases in Sweden and this lasts until the end of time the lasting impression you are making of yourself is ‘that bloke who banged on incessantly about that thing that no one remembers anymore’. | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? I don't think there is any in Europe, they all seem to be mismanaging it long term if you ask me. " I realy don't think they are asking for your opinion. Was Neil Ferguson ever replaced ? Maybe you should send in your CV if your qualified ? | |||
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"Currently we've got nearly 40% of our country under severe restrictions Huh? How is 40% under tier 3?. I was including tier 2 and 3 as both are severe compared to the Swedish restrictions. Would a better comparison be a country of similar population, area etc..? " He's already stated he's not comparing sweden and the UK. Of course it might not appear that way ..... | |||
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"So, I live in Sweden. We are having a bit of a mini spike but nothing like reported in other countries. For deaths, this was down to not helping the elderly. Care homes account for something like 75% of covid deaths in Sweden. But swedes naturally social distance, its normal to them to not socialise in each others houses, I've been here for a few years and other than 1 neighbour I've only been into the house of other non swedes. Pubs and restaurant are still functioning but Stockholm and Gothenberg have high numbers of cases and have operated accordingly but I still go the pub to watch the match. It's also very very easy to get a test here, I had one and it happened in a carpark off a motorway
We are informed pretty well and companies have taken stances to ease everything.
I've also spent time in the UK recently and honestly don't know how you have all stayed sane, that's a credit to you all cos the powers that be don't seem to have a chuffing clue "Very interesting, in particular your behaviour about naturally social distancing not socialising much in each others homes. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. " You can’t achieve here immunity if the immunity only lasts for a couple of months. | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?." Good for them. Why not look at a similar island to our own, instead of Sweden. As the population spread is different from ours, their mentality is different. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. You can’t achieve here immunity if the immunity only lasts for a couple of months. " It's posts like this that show just how damaging the media was earlier this week when it latched on to 1 study (not peer reviewed) about antibody levels declining. Immmunity is a far more complex issue than just antibodies. There's some really good info in this thread - https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1083601 KJ | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?. Good for them. Why not look at a similar island to our own, instead of Sweden. As the population spread is different from ours, their mentality is different. " ".....Why not look at a similar island to our own, instead of Sweden. As the population spread is different from ours, their mentality is different..." ---------------------- Exactly this , but the OP likes comparing Apples with Oranges.
He is even wrong in what he says on the title thread: "still no second wave appearing in Sweden"
If you look at Sweden's cases :
5 September daily cases = 171
28 October daily cases = 2820
As you can see, Sweden's cases are on the rise; no different from what's happening elsewhere in Europe. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need " Real facts? | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need Real facts?" There are 4 prime numbers less than 10 | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need " How far we have fell. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell." Eh ?? | |||
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"I could of told you when the second wave supposedly would of come month ago Winter why because it kills people anyway And after this will be another wave or all those that’s missed hospital appointment for cancer heart problems infection etc " the government told us when the second wave would come, right back at the beginning. they also told us many of our loved ones would die, so deal with it. then they bottled the message after it seemed unpopular and we've been fed a load of bullshit since then. the initial message was the truth | |||
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"I could of told you when the second wave supposedly would of come month ago Winter why because it kills people anyway And after this will be another wave or all those that’s missed hospital appointment for cancer heart problems infection etc the government told us when the second wave would come, right back at the beginning. they also told us many of our loved ones would die, so deal with it. then they bottled the message after it seemed unpopular and we've been fed a load of bullshit since then. the initial message was the truth " Who would have thought that a respiratory virus would increase in prevalence at the time of year that respiratory infections always increase. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ??" It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages." There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though | |||
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"Perhaps people should move to Sweden if they are so impressed." Sweden might add an IQ test to the entry requirements | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though" It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about.  | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about. "It’s anti-science, find evidence to suit your theory. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about.
It’s anti-science, find evidence to suit your theory."I suppose it's called having an opinion | |||
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"Why? It seems second waves are appearing all across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc. So what's happening different with Sweden?." What planet are you on? Sweden confirmed its highest covid-19 cases tally to date yesterday. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about.
It’s anti-science, find evidence to suit your theory.
I suppose it's called having an opinion"Sadly though, not an informed opinion. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about.
It’s anti-science, find evidence to suit your theory.
I suppose it's called having an opinion
Sadly though, not an informed opinion."You win | |||
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"They tell the truth Bang on" Sweden cases are also on the rise and reporting record numbers of new cases. Tighter recommendations are now being introduced in many regions. | |||
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"I could of told you when the second wave supposedly would of come month ago Winter why because it kills people anyway And after this will be another wave or all those that’s missed hospital appointment for cancer heart problems infection etc the government told us when the second wave would come, right back at the beginning. they also told us many of our loved ones would die, so deal with it. then they bottled the message after it seemed unpopular and we've been fed a load of bullshit since then. the initial message was the truth Who would have thought that a respiratory virus would increase in prevalence at the time of year that respiratory infections always increase." | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me" Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries. | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries." Exactly Gives them what they believe free reign to spout nonsense | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries." This
And those who keep talking about Sweden can't even show any evidence of success in Sweden's strategy. | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries. This
And those who keep talking about Sweden can't even show any evidence of success in Sweden's strategy."In fairness to the best of my knowledge Sven or Ulrika have both avoided it thus far... Flat packed virology has had some limited success... | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries. This
And those who keep talking about Sweden can't even show any evidence of success in Sweden's strategy.
In fairness to the best of my knowledge Sven or Ulrika have both avoided it thus far...
Flat packed virology has had some limited success..."25 posts to go, please try and make it painless ... | |||
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"So... just returning to the OP “no second wave in Sweden”? Can you explain how Sweden has now registered its highest rates of infection and hospitalisations over the past fortnight... that would seem very “second wave“ to me Lets be blunt about things, the OP and others of similar opinion don't give a damn about Sweden. It serves as a fictional counterpoint to question the necessity and effectiveness of the lockdown strategy used by many other countries. This
And those who keep talking about Sweden can't even show any evidence of success in Sweden's strategy.
In fairness to the best of my knowledge Sven or Ulrika have both avoided it thus far...
Flat packed virology has had some limited success...
25 posts to go, please try and make it painless ..."Nothing about flat pack is painless | |||
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"India is also interesting, there cases rose consistently right from the start right through a tight lockdown and then since mid September have dropped steadily what are they doing differently to get cases down?. " Only around 85% of deaths in India get recorded in a good year and only 22% of these are recorded with an actual cause of death. The death toll in India will be much larger then the official figures suggest. | |||
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"I think we can safely say sweden's 2nd wave is in full swing now." Not really watched the news, how is Sweden coping? | |||
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"I’m not sure why Sweden keeps being banded round as a success story? Their neighbours Finland have managed COVID-19 far more successfully." I think it's due to some overlooking of facts, the context of the region, the culture there etc. Plus some people don't like the restrictions that many other places have had. | |||
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"I’m not sure why Sweden keeps being banded round as a success story? Their neighbours Finland have managed COVID-19 far more successfully. I think it's due to some overlooking of facts, the context of the region, the culture there etc. Plus some people don't like the restrictions that many other places have had. " For those of you not up to date, Sweden now has the highest per capita infection rate in the world! 8000 confirmed yesterday and rising . That's equivalent to 52,000 /day here! There is little capacity in ICU units and Stockholm is 99% full with only 7 ICU beds remaining. The situation is so desperate that it's neighbours are offering to help and yesterday, Finlands interior minister Maria Ohisalo said "Finland is ready to help in any way, with intensive care, with test capacity, with everything we can , we are here for you" . There you go | |||
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"I’m not sure why Sweden keeps being banded round as a success story? Their neighbours Finland have managed COVID-19 far more successfully. I think it's due to some overlooking of facts, the context of the region, the culture there etc. Plus some people don't like the restrictions that many other places have had. For those of you not up to date, Sweden now has the highest per capita infection rate in the world! 8000 confirmed yesterday and rising . That's equivalent to 52,000 /day here! There is little capacity in ICU units and Stockholm is 99% full with only 7 ICU beds remaining. The situation is so desperate that it's neighbours are offering to help and yesterday, Finlands interior minister Maria Ohisalo said "Finland is ready to help in any way, with intensive care, with test capacity, with everything we can , we are here for you" . There you go " Good on finland | |||
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"The newest case figures for: Sweden are . . . 693.5 per 100,000. UK are . . . 345.7 per 100,000. "Sweden has been a disaster for covid. Look at finland and norway as comparisons for death rate per capita. Look at their infection rate. | |||
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"Cases are just a number, real facts we need How far we have fell. Eh ?? It appears quantitative data no longer meets the criteria of being 'real facts'. Welcome to the new dark ages. There's far too much quantitative data and not enough qualitative data here though It's often the qualitative interpretation by the posters here that's lacking, whatever it is they post about. "[thumb] The inability to interpret the facts. There are loads of facts and as he said about cases, the are just numbers which is true when out of context. Oranges are real facts but when counting eggs they are not relevant even though they exist and are facts. Many throw in the oranges out of context, still facts but can be irrelevant. | |||
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"Everywhere I read Sweden is having a second wave. And is now thinking that it's light touch approach was the wrong one." Will be interesting when things have settled to see if any approach proved better than strong disciplined respect to social distancing, restricted limited contacts and adherence to proper quarantined measures. Selfish social behaviour, insistance upon personal rights and the constant mindset to see how one can get around the rules will only perpetuate the spread. I don't understand the mindset of so many that rules are there to be broken and the bravadoism in thinking someone is smart in doing so. This weekend has clearly shown that many haven't sent the right to be an adult in their behaviour. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. Yes I'm not really into comparing countries either. I was more interested in why people think some countries seem to be avoiding a second wave, Sweden is just a more interesting country because it cannot be wrote off so quickly with masks and lockdowns as the reason. They do seem to be the only country in Europe with a very steady level of infections rather than what I see in most others with infections going up and down wildly." Actually, the Isle of Man, has not had any recorded community cases since July!!! Their secret....they closed their borders and went into lockdown on day 1. | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps?" And....they actually HAVE got a second wave if anyone caes to check. | |||
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"They had the virus They shielded the vulnerable They chieved a higher level of herd sooner by socialising the healthy They are Swedish and don't act like a shower of twats like us Brits They have a much much lower population density than us The cost was an initially high death rate (albeit comparable to ours but without any of the economic doomsday) . Utimately exposure of the healthy is the only way you protect the vulnerable provided it's managed in the right way and your population are compliant. You can't really compare any one country to another to be honest. We're all so different in terms of population, geography, economy socialism and personality of the people. Yes I'm not really into comparing countries either. I was more interested in why people think some countries seem to be avoiding a second wave, Sweden is just a more interesting country because it cannot be wrote off so quickly with masks and lockdowns as the reason. They do seem to be the only country in Europe with a very steady level of infections rather than what I see in most others with infections going up and down wildly. Actually, the Isle of Man, has not had any recorded community cases since July!!! Their secret....they closed their borders and went into lockdown on day 1." Didn't they also jail a couple of people who didn't isolate when they returned from mainland. Ie enforcement with Consequences people care about | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps? And....they actually HAVE got a second wave if anyone caes to check." They didn't 7wks ago when I made those comments. Covid is a fast moving situation worldwide. | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps? And....they actually HAVE got a second wave if anyone caes to check. They didn't 7wks ago when I made those comments. Covid is a fast moving situation worldwide." Yes they did. You just don't seem to have been aware of what was going on. Sweden has been suffering worrying increases for months | |||
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"I’m not sure why Sweden keeps being banded round as a success story? Their neighbours Finland have managed COVID-19 far more successfully. I think it's due to some overlooking of facts, the context of the region, the culture there etc. Plus some people don't like the restrictions that many other places have had. For those of you not up to date, Sweden now has the highest per capita infection rate in the world! 8000 confirmed yesterday and rising . That's equivalent to 52,000 /day here! There is little capacity in ICU units and Stockholm is 99% full with only 7 ICU beds remaining. The situation is so desperate that it's neighbours are offering to help and yesterday, Finlands interior minister Maria Ohisalo said "Finland is ready to help in any way, with intensive care, with test capacity, with everything we can , we are here for you" . There you go " Netherlands and Germany are the same. During the first wave there were some Dutch ICU patients transferred to Gemany, because our hospitals were full. They offered beds again during the second wave, but thankfully don't think it's been needed yet. Circumstances might be horrible just now, but it's fantastic to see different countries helping each other out x | |||
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"There's far fewer people, their largest city is about 1.5 million (way less than Greater Manc with 2.5m). Their population is more spread out. They voluntarily took measures like reducing social contact on the recommendation of their Govt. Some contributory factors, perhaps? And....they actually HAVE got a second wave if anyone caes to check." As has South Korea. | |||
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