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"Headline on BBC website... The implication seems to be that this may have an impact on any acquired immunity. Now I'm just a layman and don't understood immunology, virology, epidemiology and other "ologys"... But were that the case, wouldn't we be seeing a few more instances of second infections by now? Or is it just too early to say at the moment? " Well yes and in that article you can read about antibody memory - T cell immunity, which the Karolinska Institute in Sweden and their medical officer, Tegnell claim, can give up to 25% of the population a natural immunity, present from previous coronavirus ie colds etc. This could explain the very low levels of reinfection so not sure the scaremongering about the short period of B cell immunity is the whole story. | |||
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"The way I understand it it's natural for antibodies to fall in due course as there's no point in the body keeping making them unless it it is currently fighting infection. The T cells remain though and once stimulated would produce antibodies once again if necessary. I may be wrong about all of this but that is how I currently understand it. (So whether somebody tests positive for antibodies or not does not actually prove if they will fight of a reinfection.)" OK, so.. If antibodies are not significant in acquired immunity... Why have "they" (REACT I think are only one such) spending time understanding anti body patterns? Wouldn't a similar program for T Cells be more helpful in understanding any community immunity. (I should be a rapper). And on a linked note... Can you imagine our parents having the debate about t cells and anti bodies post war tb outbreak or similar! | |||
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"The way I understand it it's natural for antibodies to fall in due course as there's no point in the body keeping making them unless it it is currently fighting infection. The T cells remain though and once stimulated would produce antibodies once again if necessary. I may be wrong about all of this but that is how I currently understand it. (So whether somebody tests positive for antibodies or not does not actually prove if they will fight of a reinfection.) OK, so.. If antibodies are not significant in acquired immunity... Why have "they" (REACT I think are only one such) spending time understanding anti body patterns? Wouldn't a similar program for T Cells be more helpful in understanding any community immunity. (I should be a rapper). And on a linked note... Can you imagine our parents having the debate about t cells and anti bodies post war tb outbreak or similar! " It's not something the medical industry still fully understands, at the moment it's hypothesis and best guesses. Most medical people would have hoped for a longer (12 months+) antibody presence meaning every part of the immune system was fully active on this virus. One of those areas that needs exploring much more before any assured answers can be given one could take from today's research. | |||
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"The way I understand it it's natural for antibodies to fall in due course as there's no point in the body keeping making them unless it it is currently fighting infection. The T cells remain though and once stimulated would produce antibodies once again if necessary. I may be wrong about all of this but that is how I currently understand it. (So whether somebody tests positive for antibodies or not does not actually prove if they will fight of a reinfection.) OK, so.. If antibodies are not significant in acquired immunity... Why have "they" (REACT I think are only one such) spending time understanding anti body patterns? Wouldn't a similar program for T Cells be more helpful in understanding any community immunity. (I should be a rapper). And on a linked note... Can you imagine our parents having the debate about t cells and anti bodies post war tb outbreak or similar! " It's relatively easy to detect anti bodies, t cell activity is more difficult but it's definitely being done. I think the anti body study is part of a bigger picture to continually gauge how many people are or have been infected but the t cell study is focussed on an ultimate solution. There's a qualified immunologist about somewhere can probably explain it better though. | |||
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"I don't understand why if we (the population, scientists, statisticians, government), don't know the number of asymptomatic people there are or their potential infection rate, why more antibody testing isn't being done? It seems to have been shelved recently in place of general symptom/covid testing, which is a little cart and horse? " Testing wasn't initially very accurate and required alot of lab time, initial studies showed varying degrees of antibody production by the population, why some people remain asymptomatic is still a relative mystery. Even the antibody studies only gives us a small picture of infection because of these problems. | |||
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"The way I understand it it's natural for antibodies to fall in due course as there's no point in the body keeping making them unless it it is currently fighting infection. The T cells remain though and once stimulated would produce antibodies once again if necessary. I may be wrong about all of this but that is how I currently understand it. (So whether somebody tests positive for antibodies or not does not actually prove if they will fight of a reinfection.) OK, so.. If antibodies are not significant in acquired immunity... Why have "they" (REACT I think are only one such) spending time understanding anti body patterns? Wouldn't a similar program for T Cells be more helpful in understanding any community immunity. (I should be a rapper). And on a linked note... Can you imagine our parents having the debate about t cells and anti bodies post war tb outbreak or similar! It's relatively easy to detect anti bodies, t cell activity is more difficult but it's definitely being done. I think the anti body study is part of a bigger picture to continually gauge how many people are or have been infected but the t cell study is focussed on an ultimate solution. There's a qualified immunologist about somewhere can probably explain it better though. " Every days a school day. If you take the politics aside for a bit... I suppose if there genuinely are so many unknowns it's no surprise our attempts at managing infections and treatment are so troubled. Re the community infection rates.... And if antibodies reduce to zero over 3 months (say for example) in some people.... It means you never get a picture of total infections this year.... Just "some of the infections in the last 3 months".? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing so I'm going to watch this develop for a bit. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting "A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately. | |||
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"The way I understand it it's natural for antibodies to fall in due course as there's no point in the body keeping making them unless it it is currently fighting infection. The T cells remain though and once stimulated would produce antibodies once again if necessary. I may be wrong about all of this but that is how I currently understand it. (So whether somebody tests positive for antibodies or not does not actually prove if they will fight of a reinfection.)" T cells don't produce antibodies. There are many different subsets of T cell, including T-helper cells. T-helper cells, amongst other things, produce chemicals called cytokines when they are activated and in turn, these stimulate B cells from the bone marrow. Early B cells differentiate into specific B cells (specific for the particular infectious agent) and in turn, mature B cells further differentiate into plasma cells and B-memory cells. Plasma cells produce specific antibodies against an antigen on the infectious agent, for example, a spike protein on a virus. Antibodies then stick to the antigen and trigger other areas of the immune system to get rid of the infection e.g phagocytes (cells that "eat" other cells). B-memory cells which are specific for that antigen remain in the lymphoid tissue (spleen etc) and if the antigen is detected again (re-infection or re-activation of infection) the B-memory cells rapidly differentiate into plasma cells and produce specific antibodies again. B-memory cells can last for many decades. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately."Well, the NHS are still studying it. One study does not a conclusion make. Lots more data will be needed, I'd imagine. | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London)" That's one opinion, there are others. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately."Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies | |||
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"I don't understand why if we (the population, scientists, statisticians, government), don't know the number of asymptomatic people there are or their potential infection rate, why more antibody testing isn't being done? It seems to have been shelved recently in place of general symptom/covid testing, which is a little cart and horse? " It is being done. I am about to have my second antibody test | |||
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"I don't understand why if we (the population, scientists, statisticians, government), don't know the number of asymptomatic people there are or their potential infection rate, why more antibody testing isn't being done? It seems to have been shelved recently in place of general symptom/covid testing, which is a little cart and horse? It is being done. I am about to have my second antibody test " Did you apply for that or is it an invitation only club.? | |||
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"I don't understand why if we (the population, scientists, statisticians, government), don't know the number of asymptomatic people there are or their potential infection rate, why more antibody testing isn't being done? It seems to have been shelved recently in place of general symptom/covid testing, which is a little cart and horse? It is being done. I am about to have my second antibody test Did you apply for that or is it an invitation only club.? " First one through my work place. 2nd one through Random testing invites from imperial college | |||
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"You shouldn't be surprised, we don't get immunity from the common cold either, which is probably why there is no vaccine for it." You do actually, that's why you don't constantly get reinfected from close family who are also infected. The problem with the common cold is it's made up from hundreds of different viruses and they all have the ability to mutate yearly/biannually/five years. Although it does appear that the body retains information learnt to fight in some way similar infections so you might get it again but not as severe. | |||
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"The BBC article also states that Covid is relatively mild ! The BBC have spent the last 8 months telling their viewers that Covid is the end of the world. Perhaps you should stop looking at the BBC and heed a wider range of opinion and advice." or you can listen to the truth from the NHS, maybe that's too simple | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately.
Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies "Its published in the British Journal. Google is your friend. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately.
Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies
Its published in the British Journal. Google is your friend."British Journal of what? There is no such thing as just The British Journal. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately.
Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies
Its published in the British Journal. Google is your friend."*British medical journal. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately.
Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies
Its published in the British Journal. Google is your friend.*British medical journal."Thank you. | |||
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"I'm really interested in the fact I recovered from super mild Covid symptoms by about 3rd April, yet in the first week of August, 4 months later, I had positive antibodies. Maybe I was unwittingly re-exposed, but all the science so far suggests my mild infection should barely have triggered my antibody response. I tried to donate plasma but due to surgery in mid August, I'm not allowed. The transplant people are going to contact me again in early Dec. If I still have antibodies then, I'll donate. Assuming I don't have any Covid symptoms again before Dec, any remaining antibodies must be due to my infection in late March/early April. I'm finding this very exciting
A recent study shows plasma treatment does not work unfortunately.
Which study? There is multiple studies being done. Plasma is still very much needed. My friend gave plasma yesterday and he was very ill in April he is still full of antibodies
Its published in the British Journal. Google is your friend.*British medical journal.
Thank you."Its worth pointing out that more studies are on going as this particular study used plasma from people with mild covid symptoms. | |||
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"The BBC article also states that Covid is relatively mild ! The BBC have spent the last 8 months telling their viewers that Covid is the end of the world. Perhaps you should stop looking at the BBC and heed a wider range of opinion and advice." Thanks for your concern where I "heed a wider range of opinion and advice". | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others." Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains." Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet. | |||
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"I've just read the original paper from the Indian team Agarwal et.al, (2020) Convalescent plasma in the management of moderate Covid-19 in adults in India: open label phase II multicentre randomised controlled trial (PLACID trial), British Medical Journal, Vol. 371 It involved a fairly small group of patients (235 in the treatment group, 229 in the control group). Their conclusions are fair based on their data, but it's a small scale study. We need much more data before concluding firmly that it isn't worth doing. This study did find some possible benefit in terms of symptom control." Also to add, the treatment regimen of both the control and plasma treatment group included the antiviral drugs like remdesivir, lopinavir etc and other experimental drugs including hydroxychloroquinine. How on earth they can draw conclusions only about the plasma when they're using a massive drug cocktail, I don't know. | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet." You can ignore anything you like. It's good to have an open mind though. Considering the size of the study (360,000), aim of these studies is to provide the standard to be used for antibody tests, will quite happily listen to what is being found before many opinions on here. "Researchers at Imperial College London have been working with clinicians at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust on a programme of work to develop a ‘gold standard’ antibody test" | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet. You can ignore anything you like. It's good to have an open mind though. Considering the size of the study (360,000), aim of these studies is to provide the standard to be used for antibody tests, will quite happily listen to what is being found before many opinions on here. "Researchers at Imperial College London have been working with clinicians at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust on a programme of work to develop a ‘gold standard’ antibody test" " Not ignoring anything. Will take notice of it when it has been per reviewed. | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet. You can ignore anything you like. It's good to have an open mind though. Considering the size of the study (360,000), aim of these studies is to provide the standard to be used for antibody tests, will quite happily listen to what is being found before many opinions on here. "Researchers at Imperial College London have been working with clinicians at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust on a programme of work to develop a ‘gold standard’ antibody test" Not ignoring anything. Will take notice of it when it has been per reviewed. " it's worth reading just to see that the 360000 is a headline figure when actually only 17000 odds tested positive for the virus | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet. You can ignore anything you like. It's good to have an open mind though. Considering the size of the study (360,000), aim of these studies is to provide the standard to be used for antibody tests, will quite happily listen to what is being found before many opinions on here. "Researchers at Imperial College London have been working with clinicians at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust on a programme of work to develop a ‘gold standard’ antibody test" Not ignoring anything. Will take notice of it when it has been per reviewed. it's worth reading just to see that the 360000 is a headline figure when actually only 17000 odds tested positive for the virus" Well that's obvious as they have done multiple tests over many months. Even if the total figure was 100,000, that would still be considered one of the biggest group tests current undertaken. As far as ignoring findings till it's over tested, that's something that needs to be done with most studies that have been done on covid as they are all in progress and their findings will inevitably have some changes as they progress. That said their conclusions in here immunity being an option isn't new as others have been saying this for some time, and might be one of the reason other than NHS crash, the government has been trying a tier system amongst others to curb the spread. | |||
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"What I read from the study which was done over 365,000 patients over 3 rounds is that the antibodies died down, dropping from 6% to 4.4%. one of their conclusions is that the so-called herd immunity that many proposes is dashed. Apparently it needs between 50-60% of the population to have it for it to become an effective method of curbing. (React-2 research studies at Imperial College London) That's one opinion, there are others. Think it's more than just an opinion, which is what 90% of what's posted or replied to on the forums are. Considering these findings are done by people with a lot more knowledge than any of us I'll lean towards their findings. Apart from that it makes sense. But some can hope against it. It does seem to be in keeping with studies associated with the other 'covid' strains. Stopped reading it when it said it is yet to be peer reviewed. It shouldn't even be published yet. You can ignore anything you like. It's good to have an open mind though. Considering the size of the study (360,000), aim of these studies is to provide the standard to be used for antibody tests, will quite happily listen to what is being found before many opinions on here. "Researchers at Imperial College London have been working with clinicians at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust on a programme of work to develop a ‘gold standard’ antibody test" Not ignoring anything. Will take notice of it when it has been per reviewed. it's worth reading just to see that the 360000 is a headline figure when actually only 17000 odds tested positive for the virus" Not sure where you gleaned your figures from but the government dash board as from the 21st shows over 159,000 hospitalised due and 894,690 tested positive. You may of course disagree that the government figures are all wrong. | |||
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"Or maybe I shall listen to the opinion of my Sister in law who is a Senior Doctor and Head of Deoartment at one of Britains biggest hospitals. I think she might just be a little more knowledgeable on this subject than yourself, dont you agree ?" It's good to link your response so people know whom you're talking too unless it's everyone on here. | |||
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