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Courts overturn decision to shut Berlins Bars

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By *ap d agde couple OP   Couple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense. "

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

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By *ap d agde couple OP   Couple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned? "
Hope not

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned? "

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast "

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

"

Is there an echo in here?

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By *evil with the haloWoman
over a year ago

Crystal Peaks


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

"

Good luck with any hope of immunity soon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Germany and Poland were held up as models of brilliance in epidemic management by some in here, yet here they are with massive case rises, Poland's just had to shut schools, Germany's trying the same, it's a pointless exercise.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Germany and Poland were held up as models of brilliance in epidemic management by some in here, yet here they are with massive case rises, Poland's just had to shut schools, Germany's trying the same, it's a pointless exercise."

Germany have handled it much better than here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

Good luck with any hope of immunity soon. "

There's plenty of science to suggest it's not that far away, if we don't see any massive spike in London I'd suggest it's already started there in a small form.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Germany and Poland were held up as models of brilliance in epidemic management by some in here, yet here they are with massive case rises, Poland's just had to shut schools, Germany's trying the same, it's a pointless exercise."

So the whole world is wrong and you are right? It must be a very frustrating time for you?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

Good luck with any hope of immunity soon.

There's plenty of science to suggest it's not that far away, if we don't see any massive spike in London I'd suggest it's already started there in a small form."

Or the simple fact individuals are staying in their homes and not socialising, not having a spike in numbers does not mean London is hitting immunity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense. "

Maybe we'll do the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anybody here actually live in Berlin or is it just me?

Whilst what the original poster has said is largely true, a look at the ruling and an understanding of how the state system works here as a federal government (Berlin is both a city and state) means that lawmaking is complex.

Not so much overturned or overruled as deemed not passable by the state Senate which (like Scotland, wales etc) has certain powers to not actually implement rulings (or in this case federal requests) which is what has happened, not quite what was suggested above.

Incidentally, in some districts of Berlin (think borough systems like London or NYC) this advice has been taken and closures will be made and in others not so.

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

Good luck with any hope of immunity soon.

There's plenty of science to suggest it's not that far away, if we don't see any massive spike in London I'd suggest it's already started there in a small form."

There is plenty more science that suggests it’s a long way off and no immunity is certainty. I hope you are right, if you are wrong we will blitz past 1000 Covid deaths a day before Christmas

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's right for measures to be focused on the evidence that supports them being effective. People will buy into and support restrictions when they understand that they are really effective and can help them, instead of token gestures imposed as a display of being seen in be doing something. It seems that there's not substantiated evidence that closing them, instead of continuing with bars restrictions on distancing, capacity limits etc, so it's for the authorities to present credible evidence, to convince its citizens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned? Hope not "

Are you planning a trip ?

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By *limmatureguyMan
over a year ago

Tonbridge


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned? Hope not

Are you planning a trip ?"

I was working near there last week. A bit of a non event for the people I worked with.

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By *omin8rMan
over a year ago

In A Playspace

No trip, only thing that is not working properly is my work equipment, and don't really like going without proper coverage, risky in all manner of speaking

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly.

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By *ap d agde couple OP   Couple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly."
Common sense to keep businesses open unless you want poverty ,unemployment on a horrendous scale , if you want the NHS to survive , if you don’t want crime to rise , if you want people to have hope

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London


"Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly. Common sense to keep businesses open unless you want poverty ,unemployment on a horrendous scale , if you want the NHS to survive , if you don’t want crime to rise , if you want people to have hope "

Yes. The hospitality industry board estimates up to 200k jobs could be lost this weekend in London alone and TFL could be forced to stop running tubes and buses due to a lack of funds.

Enough is Enough.

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By *ap d agde couple OP   Couple
over a year ago

Broadstairs


"Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly. Common sense to keep businesses open unless you want poverty ,unemployment on a horrendous scale , if you want the NHS to survive , if you don’t want crime to rise , if you want people to have hope

Yes. The hospitality industry board estimates up to 200k jobs could be lost this weekend in London alone and TFL could be forced to stop running tubes and buses due to a lack of funds.

Enough is Enough."
Not for some they want more restrictions can’t get enough of it

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London


"Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly. Common sense to keep businesses open unless you want poverty ,unemployment on a horrendous scale , if you want the NHS to survive , if you don’t want crime to rise , if you want people to have hope

Yes. The hospitality industry board estimates up to 200k jobs could be lost this weekend in London alone and TFL could be forced to stop running tubes and buses due to a lack of funds.

Enough is Enough. Not for some they want more restrictions can’t get enough of it "

They are either not affected by them or they can't see past the issue of Covid to the potentially bigger problems building up behind it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Finally, some common sense. Shame it's taken a court to decide on what 99% of people already knew.

I don't think it will catch on here though sadly. Common sense to keep businesses open unless you want poverty ,unemployment on a horrendous scale , if you want the NHS to survive , if you don’t want crime to rise , if you want people to have hope

Yes. The hospitality industry board estimates up to 200k jobs could be lost this weekend in London alone and TFL could be forced to stop running tubes and buses due to a lack of funds.

Enough is Enough. Not for some they want more restrictions can’t get enough of it

They are either not affected by them or they can't see past the issue of Covid to the potentially bigger problems building up behind it."

Sadly for some on here covid is the only thing to consider any thing else like the catastrophic damage restrictions cause is simply irrelevant to them.

KJ

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it’s not apparent it would help fight corona , the court said it would be disproportionate encroachment on freedoms, at last some common sense.

I think that ridiculous ruling will be overturned?

I think so too. Their daily new cases is rising astonishingly fast

It's what airborne endemic viruses do until some relative amount of immunity is built up in the community of animals it's targeting.

Good luck with any hope of immunity soon.

There's plenty of science to suggest it's not that far away, if we don't see any massive spike in London I'd suggest it's already started there in a small form.

There is plenty more science that suggests it’s a long way off and no immunity is certainty. I hope you are right, if you are wrong we will blitz past 1000 Covid deaths a day before Christmas "

That's because they've made the fundamental assumption of only looking at antibodies for immunity, there's plenty of science that tells us t-cells remember viruses and then produce antibodies to fight it off, an antibody test just tells you if somebody was recently infected and that the antibodies are present at that moment, sars-cov2 is not that distant from many other Corona viruses that many people have already encountered and have t-cell remembrance to, this will give them some immunity right from the get go and could be upto 30-50% of the population, add on the others that have already had this particular strain and you'll start to get some herd immunity, not total but enough to slow outbreaks as the r number struggles to get high enough, this pattern is consistent in other countries, South Italy is getting more cases than the originally hit North, districts in France are seeing higher rises than previous places hit in the first wave, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Holland and the USA, high outbreaks in the previously not very hit South and West not so much in the East.

Herd immunity is already starting and with advances made in treatment I very much doubt we'll see those high death numbers reoccurring.

Spring time 2021 looks promising

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Much like swine flu the vaccine will be behind naturally herd immunity.

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By *exleyboyMan
over a year ago

Erith


"Does anybody here actually live in Berlin or is it just me?

Whilst what the original poster has said is largely true, a look at the ruling and an understanding of how the state system works here as a federal government (Berlin is both a city and state) means that lawmaking is complex.

Not so much overturned or overruled as deemed not passable by the state Senate which (like Scotland, wales etc) has certain powers to not actually implement rulings (or in this case federal requests) which is what has happened, not quite what was suggested above.

Incidentally, in some districts of Berlin (think borough systems like London or NYC) this advice has been taken and closures will be made and in others not so."

Yes Berlin like London is made up of Boroughs, each with a mayor and council. However there is not an elected Mayor of Berlin, and the post of nominal Mayor rotates every year between the boroughs, and its a west, east swap. The Senate of Berlin is made up of representives of the Boroughs which is something that goes back to the end of the war and was not changed when the wall came down. The Senate has very limited powers, again something the goes back to 1945.

The older Berliners ie over 40, were used to the city been a military city with power passing between the 4 military powers every month, hence the acceptance of mandates, but the young Berliners do not.

It according, to a friend who lives in Berlin the poorer boroughs that are fighting against the pubs shutting. The richer boroughs are not happy about the new rules but have accepted them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This "poorer boroughs" unhappy and "richer boroughs" accepting is not factual, sorry.

Despite not being German but living here in Berlin quite happily, I feel I have to set the facts straight.

To be correct, nobody likes this.

Most are doing their bit.

There are bezirke (boroughs) which are traditionally more run down historically that have a higher rate of infection (like Neukölln or Kreuzberg (visitors to KitKat here etc will have been there).

However, this area is by no means poor, try renting there! It is however, densely populated with younger people which counts for its number.

Berlin is coping but let's not spread a rumour that "courts overturned" this ruling in the name of common sense.

There are lots of rules on all of us in all areas, many even in less infected areas (poorer and richer) for example have many rules imposed in terms of masks, distance, curfews, closures that even high risk areas such as my home city in the UK which has a far higher rate of infection has.

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