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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered." Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? | |||
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"We haven't had a full year of this yet though, research projects need completing on so many different levels before we can say anything concrete, science is best guess until proven and can change rapidly as things evolve. Next year we should have more answers on sars-cov-2, the viral load needed for infection is a biggy question needed to be answered " You're right, in March they were saying it was 2% or 3%, give it a full year and it could go below the flu ifr. | |||
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"We haven't had a full year of this yet though, research projects need completing on so many different levels before we can say anything concrete, science is best guess until proven and can change rapidly as things evolve. Next year we should have more answers on sars-cov-2, the viral load needed for infection is a biggy question needed to be answered " Most companies won't be around next year so good luck with that. Government doesn't have a clue what they are doing, they are not businessmen they've probably never had a proper job in there lives since Eaton or Oxford and yet we trust them to run the country. The US made a better choice. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight?" Why aren't we using the Nightingales? | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales?" We are. Several in the north are being brought back on line. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Preserving health and looking after the vulnerable is a better way or looking at it ! | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. " Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales?" I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate." The CFR is based on confirmed cases and is the preferred metric of mortality used by John Hopkins. | |||
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"Factor in all the people not getting early treatment for Cancer and other serious illness ,God help you if you get anything else other than Covid " And if we control the spread of covid, it will reduce the amount of people hospitalised for Covid. If that happens, then there won't be delays in treatment for cancer and other serious illness. All of this is a good reason for measures /restrictions to be in place to keep the covid infection cases down. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered." "...Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered..." --------------------------------- Indeed Long Covid needs to be considered. People seem to be focused only on the death numbers and seem to ignore the health issues relating to Long Covid. An Excerpt from the Guardian below: "Up to 60,000 people in the UK may have been suffering from “long Covid” for more than three months, unable to get the care they need to recover from prolonged and debilitating symptoms." Some of these Long Covid sufferers have had to resort to wheel chairs. Long Covid does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young fit and healthy too. It can affect even people who had no previous underlying health issues. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." And did you realise that's the figures with either lockdown or severe restrictions pretty much world wide ? Did you notice the 19000 new infections and 138 deaths in the last 24 hours dispite the new restrictions in the uk. Maybe we are doing 100x the number of tests we did a few weeks ago ? Maybe it's a fluke ? Did you notice France has brought in a night time curfew in many cities ? I guess all the leaders im the world should also misinterpret the statement and stop all this bullshit. But it's fine you are reassuring us no end ... Thanks | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds?" In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October." You've not been keeping up well, have you ? Infection Symptoms ... Sick Hospital ICU Death The process can take up to 6 weeks or even longer | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October." “...... In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October.....” —————————————- Liverpool’s ICU wards are 95% full. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. And did you realise that's the figures with either lockdown or severe restrictions pretty much world wide ? Did you notice the 19000 new infections and 138 deaths in the last 24 hours dispite the new restrictions in the uk. Maybe we are doing 100x the number of tests we did a few weeks ago ? Maybe it's a fluke ? Did you notice France has brought in a night time curfew in many cities ? I guess all the leaders im the world should also misinterpret the statement and stop all this bullshit. But it's fine you are reassuring us no end ... Thanks " The infection fatality rate is not related to lock down. That doesn't change your chance of dying if you catch it. So 138 people die having had a positive PCR test. Given that the average age of the people who die with a positive test is about 84, do you suppose they might have died of old age rather than covid. As for France, I live in Paris and most people here are wondering what the fuss is all about. You would think people are dropping like flies but in reality it's a non-event. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales?" Good point but we cannot staff the hospital's we have already so no hope of opening them and running them properly. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions." We can only guess how many millions have had the virus that have never had a test | |||
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"Factor in all the people not getting early treatment for Cancer and other serious illness ,God help you if you get anything else other than Covid And if we control the spread of covid, it will reduce the amount of people hospitalised for Covid. If that happens, then there won't be delays in treatment for cancer and other serious illness. All of this is a good reason for measures /restrictions to be in place to keep the covid infection cases down." This was put on place in March, now look where we are, people’s selfishness and stupidity as us right back where we started. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October. “...... In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October.....” —————————————- Liverpool’s ICU wards are 95% full. " Yesterday the councillor said they were 95% full and the Trust said they were 80% full. They are normally about 85% full in October. We are talking about 67 ICU beds when the country has 6000 ICU beds they could divert patients to other areas but they don't need to yet. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions." Given that it was almost exclusively the vulnerable that were dying, I don't think they were particularly protected. They estimate upto 430,000 people were catching it each day in the peak period in March which is why the the positive test figure is of no value. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. ------- We can only guess how many millions have had the virus that have never had a test " Yes, without testing everyone for both existing and past infections, the true picture is a guess. This will also have a bearing on future long term health issues which "could" be lurking in the wings. The truth is though, we don't know anywhere near enough about many aspects of this virus. Cal | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions." Ssshh you're in the wrong forum. What we do here is take a singular statistic then add a complaint about government incompetence or claim some sort of mass hysteria. Please think more carefully before applying common sense or critical analysis of future. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions." But the actual fatality rate is 0.23% so it won't be deaths in the millions. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. ------- We can only guess how many millions have had the virus that have never had a test Yes, without testing everyone for both existing and past infections, the true picture is a guess. This will also have a bearing on future long term health issues which "could" be lurking in the wings. The truth is though, we don't know anywhere near enough about many aspects of this virus. Cal" You don't need to test everyone, you test a random sample and from that you come up with the figure. The larger the sample the more accurate the figure. Its 0.23%. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. But the actual fatality rate is 0.23% so it won't be deaths in the millions." Has anyone told the virus this? Because the pesky critter currently seems to be applying different rates of deaths in different places and to different demographics. Surely someone should explain the maths to it. Cal | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales?" Where are the additional doctors, nurses and support staff needed to run the Nightingale hospitals? PR inspired white elephants without the staff levels required to give the care patients need. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. But the actual fatality rate is 0.23% so it won't be deaths in the millions. Has anyone told the virus this? Because the pesky critter currently seems to be applying different rates of deaths in different places and to different demographics. Surely someone should explain the maths to it. Cal" You're right about the different figures. It's only 0.05% for the under 70s. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October. “...... In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October.....” —————————————- Liverpool’s ICU wards are 95% full. Yesterday the councillor said they were 95% full and the Trust said they were 80% full. They are normally about 85% full in October. We are talking about 67 ICU beds when the country has 6000 ICU beds they could divert patients to other areas but they don't need to yet." And we should wait till the beds get to 100% capacity before something is done ?? The current restrictions have been put in place to address that. You don’t wait till your health care system becomes overrun. You take action BEFORE it gets to that stage. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Judging by some of the posts on here far too many people are being brainwashed by the mainstream media and governments. It’s about time people woke up and realised that there is another reason for these lockdowns. I’m not saying I know what that reason is but there’s definitely something going on. I’ve watched lots of conspiracy stuff and a vast majority of it is spouted by crazy people,if people just took one evening away from the tv And done there own bit of research then they might start seeing some things that will make them understand we are being scammed | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October. “...... In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October.....” —————————————- Liverpool’s ICU wards are 95% full. Yesterday the councillor said they were 95% full and the Trust said they were 80% full. They are normally about 85% full in October. We are talking about 67 ICU beds when the country has 6000 ICU beds they could divert patients to other areas but they don't need to yet. And we should wait till the beds get to 100% capacity before something is done ?? The current restrictions have been put in place to address that. You don’t wait till your health care system becomes overrun. You take action BEFORE it gets to that stage. " We run at almost full capacity every winter. Noone ever takes action over that. It's an accepted part of an underfunded NHS. | |||
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"Waiting for the lock away the old buggers posts coming  "Lock away the old buggers. I could knock you younger ones into next week. Some of us are fitter than the younger I know you arent saying anything about them but annoys me everyone going on about old ones | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? Where are the additional doctors, nurses and support staff needed to run the Nightingale hospitals? PR inspired white elephants without the staff levels required to give the care patients need. " What's the point of them then? Are they just a PR stunt? | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? I would reiterate What should we do? With regard to the potential need for hospital beds? In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October. “...... In Liverpool, the hotspot of the UK, there are less people in ICU than average for October.....” —————————————- Liverpool’s ICU wards are 95% full. Yesterday the councillor said they were 95% full and the Trust said they were 80% full. They are normally about 85% full in October. We are talking about 67 ICU beds when the country has 6000 ICU beds they could divert patients to other areas but they don't need to yet. And we should wait till the beds get to 100% capacity before something is done ?? The current restrictions have been put in place to address that. You don’t wait till your health care system becomes overrun. You take action BEFORE it gets to that stage. We run at almost full capacity every winter. Noone ever takes action over that. It's an accepted part of an underfunded NHS." “..... We run at almost full capacity every winter....” —————————- So we run at almost full capacity every winter, and that’s *without covid* Now we have covid *in addition* to all the other hospitalisations which take place around this time of the year. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. But the actual fatality rate is 0.23% so it won't be deaths in the millions." You are misusing what is an estimated statistic to advance an particular argument. If you were correct in your assertion, it would indicate the global medical and public health consensus thinking is wrong. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? Where are the additional doctors, nurses and support staff needed to run the Nightingale hospitals? PR inspired white elephants without the staff levels required to give the care patients need. " I've no idea how many extra doctors, nurses and supports would be needed but we have the army on standby. Boris has made it clear they are not planned for enforcement. Some pretty decent medics in the forces that'll be a big help. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Surely though the "fatality rate" has been drastically reduced due to protecting the most vulnerable from infection... and still there have been well over a million deaths attributed to it. In the uk, roughly 1% of the population have so far had a positive test... and around 43k deaths. This would suggest that a "herd immunity" approach would see deaths in the millions. But the actual fatality rate is 0.23% so it won't be deaths in the millions. Has anyone told the virus this? Because the pesky critter currently seems to be applying different rates of deaths in different places and to different demographics. Surely someone should explain the maths to it. Cal ------ You're right about the different figures. It's only 0.05% for the under 70s." Having just read the document in question, possibly the most important comment to consider is "The infection fatality rate is not a fixed physical constant and it can vary substantially across locations". | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. And did you realise that's the figures with either lockdown or severe restrictions pretty much world wide ? Did you notice the 19000 new infections and 138 deaths in the last 24 hours dispite the new restrictions in the uk. Maybe we are doing 100x the number of tests we did a few weeks ago ? Maybe it's a fluke ? Did you notice France has brought in a night time curfew in many cities ? I guess all the leaders im the world should also misinterpret the statement and stop all this bullshit. But it's fine you are reassuring us no end ... Thanks The infection fatality rate is not related to lock down. That doesn't change your chance of dying if you catch it. So 138 people die having had a positive PCR test. Given that the average age of the people who die with a positive test is about 84, do you suppose they might have died of old age rather than covid. As for France, I live in Paris and most people here are wondering what the fuss is all about. You would think people are dropping like flies but in reality it's a non-event." Yeah, the world's wrong and you're right. Thanks for the enlightenment | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales? Where are the additional doctors, nurses and support staff needed to run the Nightingale hospitals? PR inspired white elephants without the staff levels required to give the care patients need. What's the point of them then? Are they just a PR stunt? " Spielberg thought it would be a hoot | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Where do people like you fail to comprehend the issue here.... forget the mortality rate, it’s utterly irrelevant. Covid-19 is currently filling up wards at a frighting rate... without those wards those people die, the death rate is currently massively lowered by some of the very best medical techniques in the world yet for a significant number that’s still not enough. Ignore it and that’s a death sentence for anyone with serious COVID-19 symptoms as we will run out of ventilated beds and the many specialists needed to run them. Add to that the fact infections will soar... wards will fill, all but the most urgent of surgical procedures will be cancelled, all but the most urgent cancer ops, screening etc will be delayed and because we are swamped. Death tolls in many, many health areas will rise significantly due to the stupidity of those with your outlook. You might as well be telling me Liverpool actually won against Aston Villa as their pass completion rate was far superior and Villas was insignificant... the reality is they got stuffed 7-2 end of story. Medicine isn’t a single percentage, it’s all the factors, ramifications, capacity etc combined. | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate. The CFR is based on confirmed cases and is the preferred metric of mortality used by John Hopkins." Which is simple when you have a disease that has clear symptoms. When you have a disease where 80% are asymptomatic then it’s obviously as inaccurate as the infection fatality rate. | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate. The CFR is based on confirmed cases and is the preferred metric of mortality used by John Hopkins. Which is simple when you have a disease that has clear symptoms. When you have a disease where 80% are asymptomatic then it’s obviously as inaccurate as the infection fatality rate." Which explains why this 0.23 % means little. That’s why myself and other posters on this thread have looked at the bigger picture and highlighted the factors which are at stake in this pandemic , rather than quibble over %s which don’t really mean anything. | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate. The CFR is based on confirmed cases and is the preferred metric of mortality used by John Hopkins. Which is simple when you have a disease that has clear symptoms. When you have a disease where 80% are asymptomatic then it’s obviously as inaccurate as the infection fatality rate. Which explains why this 0.23 % means little. That’s why myself and other posters on this thread have looked at the bigger picture and highlighted the factors which are at stake in this pandemic , rather than quibble over %s which don’t really mean anything. " Well as it’s WHO that has just published this data we better tell them to pipe down then they’re interrupting the fab experts. | |||
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"The infection fatality rate is typically an estimate of deaths as a proportion of all those believed to be infected, whereas case fatality rates is the percentage of deaths among confirmed cases. John Hopkins Coronavirus research centre currently records the UK as having a case fatality rate of 6.6% or 65.04 per 100k of population. This value is 7th highest in the world. Unfortunately when approximately 80% of Covid cases are asymptomatic using a case fatality rate is highly inaccurate. The CFR is based on confirmed cases and is the preferred metric of mortality used by John Hopkins. Which is simple when you have a disease that has clear symptoms. When you have a disease where 80% are asymptomatic then it’s obviously as inaccurate as the infection fatality rate. Which explains why this 0.23 % means little. That’s why myself and other posters on this thread have looked at the bigger picture and highlighted the factors which are at stake in this pandemic , rather than quibble over %s which don’t really mean anything. Well as it’s WHO that has just published this data we better tell them to pipe down then they’re interrupting the fab experts. " It’s not the WHO we are challenging, it’s the OP who describes the 0.23% as mass hysteria. The WHO paper did not describe it as such. Hence why I say the quibble of the death % means very little when you consider other factors at stake. | |||
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" Where do people like you fail to comprehend the issue here.... forget the mortality rate, it’s utterly irrelevant. Covid-19 is currently filling up wards at a frighting rate... without those wards those people die, the death rate is currently massively lowered by some of the very best medical techniques in the world yet for a significant number that’s still not enough. Ignore it and that’s a death sentence for anyone with serious COVID-19 symptoms as we will run out of ventilated beds and the many specialists needed to run them. Add to that the fact infections will soar... wards will fill, all but the most urgent of surgical procedures will be cancelled, all but the most urgent cancer ops, screening etc will be delayed and because we are swamped. Death tolls in many, many health areas will rise significantly due to the stupidity of those with your outlook. You might as well be telling me Liverpool actually won against Aston Villa as their pass completion rate was far superior and Villas was insignificant... the reality is they got stuffed 7-2 end of story. Medicine isn’t a single percentage, it’s all the factors, ramifications, capacity etc combined." There is currently 563 people on ventilators for Covid-19 in the UK. We have 30,000 machines now stockpiled. At the peak of the first wave 2489 ventilator beds were occupied buy Covid-19 patients. The survival rate of patients on ventilators is so low they are now less in favour than high oxygen cpap machines with ventilators only being used as a last resort. Many of the beds taken up by Covid-19 patients are only suffering mild symptoms, doctors were afraid to send them home during the first wave which lead to overcrowding. All this information is easily access on google and the figures quoated from the governments own website. Having personally spoken with friends working on the front line in the NHS the situation in the hospitals in not as bad as being promoted on the news. Sweden did not shut down there economy and is doing fine. Business should be allowed to continue as normal and the NHS given extra funding to cope with increased workloads. This virus is not going anywhere and it is unlikely we will find a working vaccine. At some point we will have to accept a slightly higher death rate than pre Covid-19 and get on with life. | |||
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"There is currently 563 people on ventilators for Covid-19 in the UK. We have 30,000 machines now stockpiled. At the peak of the first wave 2489 ventilator beds were occupied buy Covid-19 patients. The survival rate of patients on ventilators is so low they are now less in favour than high oxygen cpap machines with ventilators only being used as a last resort. Many of the beds taken up by Covid-19 patients are only suffering mild symptoms, doctors were afraid to send them home during the first wave which lead to overcrowding. All this information is easily access on google and the figures quoated from the governments own website. Having personally spoken with friends working on the front line in the NHS the situation in the hospitals in not as bad as being promoted on the news. Sweden did not shut down there economy and is doing fine. Business should be allowed to continue as normal and the NHS given extra funding to cope with increased workloads. This virus is not going anywhere and it is unlikely we will find a working vaccine. At some point we will have to accept a slightly higher death rate than pre Covid-19 and get on with life. " Yeah I love posts like this... random grasped facts, total lack of knowledge on the process. We have X,000 ventilators problem solved. That’s like saying we have 7000 rifles... all very good but... how many soldiers? At the peak of the pandemic we went from 1-1 ICU patient care to 1-6, we reached in many trusts oxygen capacity for the hospitals supply between CPAP and ventilation without deploying stockpiles. The Excel Nightingale was a great example... 700 pristine ventilated beds setup and the staff capacity to open and utilise 15 of them. As I said before... crank out bed after bed for CPAP, ventilation etc, it’s all fine but what space does it occupy, which wards or clinics do we temporarily close, which services do we suspend, which staff are drafted in to support those new wards? Cancer surgical teams? As for CPAP vs ventilation... your bottom is talking. If we can keep people on CPAP we will, primarily because they are conscious, have a speedier recovery Post oxygen therapy, don’t require surgical or radiology support or constant 1-1 monitoring. Ventilation does however offer a whole higher tier of treatment which CPAP would simply leave people dead at. We have a survival rate in excess of 50% of ventilated patients now so perhaps spend a little more time understanding the reality. Here’s Manchester’s reality, with our trusts in their current state they are running at 60% Covid capacity. We know from infection rates we can expect to fill that in 2-3 weeks with those already infected. We have zero capacity for ventilation in the NW nightingale, we also lack the consultants required to offer CPAP there in significant volume. So, 2 weeks from now we are asking ourselves the question, what do we suspend to a) provide additional clinical floor space and b) lend us staff with adaptable skill sets. Perhaps answer this question: if we crack on with our lives, ignore the rising infections etc... what are you willing to sacrifice in terms of medical support to give us the additional capacity or do we just turn those needing hospitalisation for COVID away at the door knowing that they will die without our help? And before you say... bring the RAMC in to help, they have the surgical and specialised capacity to support 60 ventilators, that’s it. This equation has always been about using the NHS resources to manage care of serious infections which is spiralling out of control. | |||
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" Having personally spoken with friends working on the front line in the NHS the situation in the hospitals in not as bad as being promoted on the news. " Utter crap... look at the situation in Liverpool, Manchester and Northern Ireland with their trusts. All are clearly saying “we are full” or “we are going to be”. As an NHS frontline worker in a tier II city ICU here’s my honest opinion: we are fucked, we will exceed our provision in 2 weeks and need to borrow staff and space from other clinical areas within three weeks. And for the record... we have zero “nothing wrong with them” COVID patients with us, just a stack of people seriously fighting for their lives, some sadly not making it already. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." First you are giving misinformation, The WHO did not publish the paper it was published in it is just published in a WHO journal and is not the view of WHO as implied. Second reviews of the paper state it is full of errors and dismiss it as a flawed piece of research. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Those figures are based on data taken from December up until it was published and based on global restrictions and travel bans. | |||
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" Where do people like you fail to comprehend the issue here.... forget the mortality rate, it’s utterly irrelevant. Covid-19 is currently filling up wards at a frighting rate... without those wards those people die, the death rate is currently massively lowered by some of the very best medical techniques in the world yet for a significant number that’s still not enough. Ignore it and that’s a death sentence for anyone with serious COVID-19 symptoms as we will run out of ventilated beds and the many specialists needed to run them. Add to that the fact infections will soar... wards will fill, all but the most urgent of surgical procedures will be cancelled, all but the most urgent cancer ops, screening etc will be delayed and because we are swamped. Death tolls in many, many health areas will rise significantly due to the stupidity of those with your outlook. You might as well be telling me Liverpool actually won against Aston Villa as their pass completion rate was far superior and Villas was insignificant... the reality is they got stuffed 7-2 end of story. Medicine isn’t a single percentage, it’s all the factors, ramifications, capacity etc combined. There is currently 563 people on ventilators for Covid-19 in the UK. We have 30,000 machines now stockpiled. At the peak of the first wave 2489 ventilator beds were occupied buy Covid-19 patients. The survival rate of patients on ventilators is so low they are now less in favour than high oxygen cpap machines with ventilators only being used as a last resort. Many of the beds taken up by Covid-19 patients are only suffering mild symptoms, doctors were afraid to send them home during the first wave which lead to overcrowding. All this information is easily access on google and the figures quoated from the governments own website. Having personally spoken with friends working on the front line in the NHS the situation in the hospitals in not as bad as being promoted on the news. Sweden did not shut down there economy and is doing fine. Business should be allowed to continue as normal and the NHS given extra funding to cope with increased workloads. This virus is not going anywhere and it is unlikely we will find a working vaccine. At some point we will have to accept a slightly higher death rate than pre Covid-19 and get on with life. " Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? Swedens economy shrunk the same as their neighbours in the 2nd quarter, they also expected 40% herd immunity but antibodies test show only 6%. Also they have a much higher death per 100k than their neighbours. Its lower than ours but you cant compare each country as land mass per population plays a massive part. Thats why they are compared to their neighbours as they have similar landmass to population and economys are similar. Also 40% of covid related deaths were from care homes, so the idea of sheilding the vulnerable didnt work. Whilst there are no real answers to solve this crisis as no one really knows what to do. Time is a factor in solving it. Medicine and treatment will evolve. I think common sense is the answer now rather than locking down when it gets to a certain point. My only concern is the nhs being overwhelmed and they turn away all patients. That will lead to more preventable deaths. Its a marathon rather than a sprint. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Those figures are based on data taken from December up until it was published and based on global restrictions and travel bans." Global restrictions and travel bans don't change the chance of dying if you catch it, they just change the chance of catching it. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? " I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Those figures are based on data taken from December up until it was published and based on global restrictions and travel bans. Global restrictions and travel bans don't change the chance of dying if you catch it, they just change the chance of catching it." Ha we have at least one person with a brain here  | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening. Those figures are based on data taken from December up until it was published and based on global restrictions and travel bans. Global restrictions and travel bans don't change the chance of dying if you catch it, they just change the chance of catching it." "....Global restrictions and travel bans don't change the chance of dying if you catch it, they just change the chance of catching it...." ---------------------------------- And changing your chance of catching it - changes your chance of dying from it. The two are Linked !! | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed " "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235" I see how my words were understood, i meant they did not shut down the economy with a lockdown to fight the virus, abd are doing well in terms of deaths and infection rates. I actually think their numbers look very acceptable given they put no lock down in place. So like my original point, at some point we will have to accept a higher infection and death rate and get on with our lives | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed " Short memory, "Sweden did not shut down there economy and is doing fine". | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235" Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. | |||
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"Don't waste your breath op, these people are authoritarian by nurture, it's like Christmas come early for them. "Some can’t wait to give there hard fought freedoms up quick enough, | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us." The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college." Unfortunately Sweden is not a good example to use . It's far higher than all other Scandinavian countries and there is great concerns with the majority of people there? What on earth makes you think Swedens example shows anything good? | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college." FAKE NEWS Imperial college made no such predictions. "You may have seen false claims that Imperial COVID-19 "modelling envisaged Sweden paying a heavy price for its rejection of lockdown, with 40,000 Covid deaths by 1 May and almost 100,000 by June". Our researchers made no such prediction, Professor Ferguson and the Imperial COVID-19 response team never estimated 40,000 or 100,000 Swedish deaths. Imperial's work is being conflated with that of an entirely separate group of researchers" | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. FAKE NEWS Imperial college made no such predictions. "You may have seen false claims that Imperial COVID-19 "modelling envisaged Sweden paying a heavy price for its rejection of lockdown, with 40,000 Covid deaths by 1 May and almost 100,000 by June". Our researchers made no such prediction, Professor Ferguson and the Imperial COVID-19 response team never estimated 40,000 or 100,000 Swedish deaths. Imperial's work is being conflated with that of an entirely separate group of researchers"" Their researchers may not have predicted that but their model did. The software was made available for others to use and that is where the predictions came from. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. FAKE NEWS Imperial college made no such predictions. "You may have seen false claims that Imperial COVID-19 "modelling envisaged Sweden paying a heavy price for its rejection of lockdown, with 40,000 Covid deaths by 1 May and almost 100,000 by June". Our researchers made no such prediction, Professor Ferguson and the Imperial COVID-19 response team never estimated 40,000 or 100,000 Swedish deaths. Imperial's work is being conflated with that of an entirely separate group of researchers"" That's disingenuous of Imperial collegeit was their modelling that other countries based their predictions on. The numbers for Sweden were predicted by Uppsala university in Sweden using Imerials modelling. | |||
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"What would you suggest OP? Hospitals are close to tipping point with covid admissions now. Cancer treatments, scans, nearly all operations other than emergencies cancelled, childrens wards are now full to capacity. So there will be many who die because they are now having to wait longer. The long term effect of Covid on patients is not yet known but there have been medical reports suggesting early onset of organ failures later on in life as a result as it seriously attacks vital organs and immune system. Just because people survive it doesn't mean it's ok. Those who say let's just get on with and fuck anyone else need to open their eyes a bit further than their own two feet." Blimey! Nice to hear from someone who is taking sensible. This virus is a killer. People should have more thought for the older generation and those with underlying health conditions | |||
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"What would you suggest OP? Hospitals are close to tipping point with covid admissions now. Cancer treatments, scans, nearly all operations other than emergencies cancelled, childrens wards are now full to capacity. So there will be many who die because they are now having to wait longer. The long term effect of Covid on patients is not yet known but there have been medical reports suggesting early onset of organ failures later on in life as a result as it seriously attacks vital organs and immune system. Just because people survive it doesn't mean it's ok. Those who say let's just get on with and fuck anyone else need to open their eyes a bit further than their own two feet. Blimey! Nice to hear from someone who is taking sensible. This virus is a killer. People should have more thought for the older generation and those with underlying health conditions " The average age of death from covid is 82.4 with 2.4 comorbidities that's actually older than current life expectancy in this country. You have to have a sense of realism in your figures, this virus is a killer for that group,6 out of 10 them will die from it, according to this paper it's actually less than influenza for anybody under 25. In fact it's IFR is estimated at 0.03 for under 60s. Every virus has the ability to kill some percentage of a population. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college." “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ?????" They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. " Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. " The demographics of those three countries are by far similar to each other than the demographics between Sweden and the U.K. Which is why it makes no sense to suggest Sweden’s strategy should be adopted in the U.K. | |||
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"Factor in all the people not getting early treatment for Cancer and other serious illness ,God help you if you get anything else other than Covid And if we control the spread of covid, it will reduce the amount of people hospitalised for Covid. If that happens, then there won't be delays in treatment for cancer and other serious illness. All of this is a good reason for measures /restrictions to be in place to keep the covid infection cases down." Unfortunately that's all we can do . A half term / 2 week national lockdown .. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Pssst, lockdown warriors won't be happy with this post  | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population." “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. " So you’ve gone from run rampant to spread. Oki docking | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. The demographics of those three countries are by far similar to each other than the demographics between Sweden and the U.K. Which is why it makes no sense to suggest Sweden’s strategy should be adopted in the U.K. " Apart from the population of Sweden is double either of the other two despite having similar land mass, apart from the fact that Sweden has 24% of the population born outside of Sweden compared to 3% in Finland and 13% in Norway, apart from the fact Sweden has more elderly, apart from the fact Norway is far wealthier per capita than Sweden, yea apart from that there identical and apart from the fact if you really look at the death figures the one that really stands out is Sweden has a 232 average person capacity care home to Norways 31 and Finlands 53, which in reality when your dealing with an average age of death from covid in the three countries at 82,83 and 80, is really the mitigating factor. | |||
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"Overreaction is a better term, in my opinion. I don't see the justification of destroying so many businesses and splitting up friends and families. Although the effects of "Long Covid" need to be considered. Hospitals in the North West are already at struggling point France has declared a state of emergency And its only the middle of October So what do we do? Let the virus run riot and the hospitals sink under the weight? Why aren't we using the Nightingales?" I believe Nightingales are only designed for Covid patients out of danger and in recovery, they are there to clear space from recovery wards, they are not primary care facilities. | |||
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"Factor in all the people not getting early treatment for Cancer and other serious illness ,God help you if you get anything else other than Covid And if we control the spread of covid, it will reduce the amount of people hospitalised for Covid. If that happens, then there won't be delays in treatment for cancer and other serious illness. All of this is a good reason for measures /restrictions to be in place to keep the covid infection cases down." Unfortunately that's all we can do . A half term / 2 week national lockdown .. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. " So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down." The imperial college model has been updated. All models need to make guesses and assumptions especially at the start. Data put into the model is a lot better now. It didn't run through the population in sweden it did care homes. Don't pretend sweden is a poster child for stopping social distancing and mask wearing because most of the population did this with out be told to by law. It still stands their death rate per head of population is one of the highest world. In a country that is sparsely populated with one of best funded health systems in the world. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. The demographics of those three countries are by far similar to each other than the demographics between Sweden and the U.K. Which is why it makes no sense to suggest Sweden’s strategy should be adopted in the U.K. Apart from the population of Sweden is double either of the other two despite having similar land mass, apart from the fact that Sweden has 24% of the population born outside of Sweden compared to 3% in Finland and 13% in Norway, apart from the fact Sweden has more elderly, apart from the fact Norway is far wealthier per capita than Sweden, yea apart from that there identical and apart from the fact if you really look at the death figures the one that really stands out is Sweden has a 232 average person capacity care home to Norways 31 and Finlands 53, which in reality when your dealing with an average age of death from covid in the three countries at 82,83 and 80, is really the mitigating factor. " Apart from the fact that everything you’ve said above makes no sense since no two countries are ‘identical’ to each other........but....... two countries can bear ‘similarities’ with each other which can be used to make comparisons. For example you can compare Mediterranean countries with each other, Scandinavian countries with each other, Nordic countries with each other etc. All these examples I’ve given above highlight some ‘commonality’ which can be used to make comparisons. Again I state what I said above: The demographics of those three countries ( Sweden, Norway & Finland) are by far similar to each other than the demographics between Sweden and the U.K. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down." “.....So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it....” ————————————- You need to put that question to Imperial college. I did not make any claims nor subscribed to any models or predictions. My point was : “ Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown.“ My point is based on current figures we have to hand, and not based on any models or predictions. | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down. The imperial college model has been updated. All models need to make guesses and assumptions especially at the start. Data put into the model is a lot better now. It didn't run through the population in sweden it did care homes. Don't pretend sweden is a poster child for stopping social distancing and mask wearing because most of the population did this with out be told to by law. It still stands their death rate per head of population is one of the highest world. In a country that is sparsely populated with one of best funded health systems in the world. " But what mechanism stopped it running through the population because countries that locked down will tell you the lock down stopped it? | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down. The imperial college model has been updated. All models need to make guesses and assumptions especially at the start. Data put into the model is a lot better now. It didn't run through the population in sweden it did care homes. Don't pretend sweden is a poster child for stopping social distancing and mask wearing because most of the population did this with out be told to by law. It still stands their death rate per head of population is one of the highest world. In a country that is sparsely populated with one of best funded health systems in the world. But what mechanism stopped it running through the population because countries that locked down will tell you the lock down stopped it?" It has been dramatic in Sweden the figures are not great despite the fact we had months of staying at home and many stopped travelling | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down. The imperial college model has been updated. All models need to make guesses and assumptions especially at the start. Data put into the model is a lot better now. It didn't run through the population in sweden it did care homes. Don't pretend sweden is a poster child for stopping social distancing and mask wearing because most of the population did this with out be told to by law. It still stands their death rate per head of population is one of the highest world. In a country that is sparsely populated with one of best funded health systems in the world. But what mechanism stopped it running through the population because countries that locked down will tell you the lock down stopped it?" There is a fairly big clue in the uk figures, before, during and after lockdown. Not exactly rocket science to figure it out | |||
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" Swedens economy is not doing fine, where did you hear that? I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine. Clearly as part of a global economy, when their trading partners suffer so will they. But deaths rates are not being kept artificially low with lockdowns and restructions that do not work. They are not overwhelmed "....I didn't say there enconomy was doing fine..." ---------------------------- You did say in your post above that 'Sweden's economy is doing fine'. Secondly you should not be comparing Sweden with the UK. If you want to make comparisons, compare Sweden with its next door neighbours who have similar demographics. And when you make that comparison you'll find that : Among all the Nordic countries, -Sweden has the highest death rate per capita, - the highest number of infections, -plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to other countries that locked down. - they also experienced an increase in unemployment Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy. Their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785 As of 9 Oct daily new cases: Sweden 785 Norway 167 Finland 235 Im glad there is someone who speaks sense. Everyone who says Sweden model seems to think they are doing well. Dig deep and you will find they have failed like the rest of us. The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population. There were not the 100,000 deaths forecast by the Imperial college. “..... The fundamental point about Sweden is that it shows that if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population....” ———————————— Really ?? Quite the OPPOSITE I would say. Let’s look at Sweden again compared to its neighbours who share similar demographics. SWEDEN( No Lockdown) Cases = 102,407 Deaths = 5,910 ————————-————— NORWAY (Lockdown) Cases = 16,137 Deaths = 278 ————————————— FINLAND (Lockdown) Cases = 13,133 Deaths = 351 Are you still saying that: - “ if you don't lock down the virus doesn't run rampant through the population“ ????? They don't share anything like similar demographics and don't share a similar economy. Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population. “...... Sweden has a population of over 10 million so I wouldn’t say it’s ripped through the population.....” ————————————- There is no country (so far) where the virus has ripped through the whole population. Nobody made that claim and nobody said that about Sweden. So I’m not sure where you got that from. The comparisons I made above show that Sweden’s reluctance to lockdown allowed the virus to spread ‘more’ among its population compared to its neighbours who lockdown. So why didn't it run right through the population with an exponential rise in cases until everyone in the country had caught it. That is what the Imperial college model was suggesting. Instead, with no lock down, it just fizzled out every bit as quickly as the other countries that locked down. The imperial college model has been updated. All models need to make guesses and assumptions especially at the start. Data put into the model is a lot better now. It didn't run through the population in sweden it did care homes. Don't pretend sweden is a poster child for stopping social distancing and mask wearing because most of the population did this with out be told to by law. It still stands their death rate per head of population is one of the highest world. In a country that is sparsely populated with one of best funded health systems in the world. But what mechanism stopped it running through the population because countries that locked down will tell you the lock down stopped it? There is a fairly big clue in the uk figures, before, during and after lockdown. Not exactly rocket science to figure it out "Look at the figures for Sweden before during and after no lock down and you will see exactly the same shape of infection curve. | |||
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https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
"...not as if you get fake stuff on utube  | |||
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
...not as if you get fake stuff on utube "It's a young teenager filming her train journey, she even States the date and time. I was there in July, i literally never saw a mask in the ten days I was there. There achieving what there stated goal was which was an orderly process to herd immunity before the onset of winter which is always busy with respiratory illness. | |||
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
...not as if you get fake stuff on utube
It's a young teenager filming her train journey, she even States the date and time.
I was there in July, i literally never saw a mask in the ten days I was there.
There achieving what there stated goal was which was an orderly process to herd immunity before the onset of winter which is always busy with respiratory illness.
"Swedend plan has changed a few times. Especially when they decimated their care system. They are not even close to achieving herd immunity. Their infections are just starting to rise rapidly. | |||
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
"I haven’t had a look at the you tube video, but I know: on 5 Sept they had 171 daily cases by 14 Oct it was up 970 daily cases | |||
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
I haven’t had a look at the you tube video, but I know:
on 5 Sept they had 171 daily cases
by 14 Oct it was up 970 daily cases"And yesterday there precisely 0 deaths from covid in Sweden, but then, to be fair that was unusual, because the day before there was 1. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." So what flu would that be? Rest assured all governments are more concerned about flu than covid. The next flu type could make the covid death rate look insignificant. We have not been there for 53 years, then 1918/19 prior to that. Covid at the moment looks relatively stable, flu virus is not and that is what makes it so dangerous. Remember, a flu jab does not prevent you getting it, just more chance of survival if you do. | |||
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"The WHO published a paper yesterday that shows an infection fatality rate of 0.23% for the general population and for under 70s of 0.05%. You can find it if you search 'Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data' So we are doing all of this for a disease that is about twice as bad as flu. Mass hysteria is the best term for describing what is happening." Very ignorant it fills hospitals stopping other things being cured and also can cause long term symptoms | |||
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"Here's some footage from Monday on a train platform in Sweden. See if you can spot a mask! Just one will do
https://youtu.be/5aVWu04z6v0
I haven’t had a look at the you tube video, but I know:
on 5 Sept they had 171 daily cases
by 14 Oct it was up 970 daily cases
And yesterday there precisely 0 deaths from covid in Sweden, but then, to be fair that was unusual, because the day before there was 1."Amd on the uk there were 138 deaths yesterday and 137 the day before. Is that a good thing because it justifies the restrictions to you and others ? If it 300 a day next week will you open the cigars ? We're not in a competition with sweden or any other country and we have enough problems without looking out the window. | |||
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