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"How do you suggest we eliminate the virus without the ability to seal off the country like NZ & Australia did? They can feed, clothe and care for their populations without the need for imports (at least for a while) - we can't. We are a net importer in almost all sectors, from food through to energy - the UK makes & grows a fraction of what it needs to survive. We simply can't do what they did." Taiwan and Vietnam rely on importation of goods and services and they are as close to elimination as possible. Vietnam has a population of 80 million and a very long land border- close connections with trade to China. Being an island is a huge advantage to us as we relatively have few entry points apart from the Irish border( there is already talk of an Ireland Covid strategy between Dublin and Belfast) It would be hard but achievable and the reward is pretty close to normality | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster." The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out" Freedom is a cornerstone of our society, stamping it out requires implementing measures not possible in the West | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out" To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem." Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning. | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning." Seriously!! Hell you think some sort of lockdown will kill all the 7000 known viruses plus the 20,000 we haven't even categorised yet? 2 billion years of evolution will be changed overnight. Good god you've been watching the BBC news 24 for way too long, go to bed and have a think about the words your writing. | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning. Seriously!! Hell you think some sort of lockdown will kill all the 7000 known viruses plus the 20,000 we haven't even categorised yet? 2 billion years of evolution will be changed overnight. Good god you've been watching the BBC news 24 for way too long, go to bed and have a think about the words your writing." We are only looking at controlling Covid. Covid s weakness is that it needs to find a new host relatively quickly to survive- hence the 14 day quarantine period will cover the vast majority of infections. Far being a fan of the BBC, I think nearly all the mainstream media outlets have been struggling to cover Covid from the point of view of a future strategy. | |||
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"We could have decided - and could still decide, though our poor earlier decisions make it harder - to eradicate it. We have a dithering mess running things into the ground. It needs testing and tracing to be very fast and effective followed by immediate quarantine. That means full, or almost full, pay for anyone to quarantine. A lot of very bad decisions by governments have cost £billions, including from Austria - the ski resort, superspreaders left there to the UK and elsewhere. The UK started badly - it allowed infected people to not be supported or even have tracing of infected people and their contacts, including those who came from Italy, Spain, France, Austria, China etc. We gave up at the start as our leader is defucient in most areas requiring the expertise needed. We can muddle along, with thousands more to die. Many more thousands to suffer long covid for months or longer. Some will acquire organ damage and failure. Post viral syndromes are not well understood and they will differ by virus. This virus attacks many areas that could contribute to the symptoms and the elevated immune response could too. Impacts on the brain, circulatory systems, immune systems, kidneys etc are not minor issues individually and most people will have had no evaluations, except if they were admitted to hospital. Even then it would largely have been to ensure their survival and immediate recovery. It's a silent killer when peoples' lives are like a living death "   | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning. Seriously!! Hell you think some sort of lockdown will kill all the 7000 known viruses plus the 20,000 we haven't even categorised yet? 2 billion years of evolution will be changed overnight. Good god you've been watching the BBC news 24 for way too long, go to bed and have a think about the words your writing. We are only looking at controlling Covid. Covid s weakness is that it needs to find a new host relatively quickly to survive- hence the 14 day quarantine period will cover the vast majority of infections. Far being a fan of the BBC, I think nearly all the mainstream media outlets have been struggling to cover Covid from the point of view of a future strategy. " . All viruses need a host, they all die without them, they have no reproduction system whatsoever, they are the basic of basic lifeform that life evolved from. | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning. Seriously!! Hell you think some sort of lockdown will kill all the 7000 known viruses plus the 20,000 we haven't even categorised yet? 2 billion years of evolution will be changed overnight. Good god you've been watching the BBC news 24 for way too long, go to bed and have a think about the words your writing. We are only looking at controlling Covid. Covid s weakness is that it needs to find a new host relatively quickly to survive- hence the 14 day quarantine period will cover the vast majority of infections. Far being a fan of the BBC, I think nearly all the mainstream media outlets have been struggling to cover Covid from the point of view of a future strategy. . All viruses need a host, they all die without them, they have no reproduction system whatsoever, they are the basic of basic lifeform that life evolved from." Exactly my point- removing the host( ie short sharp lockdown) has a dramatic effect on viruses ability to replicate. | |||
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"Well seen as it's a ten month old virus and it's recovery is stated as six months as are alot of respiratory illnesses then obviously and awful lot of people won't have recovered (completely) as of yet. I don't think anybody has discounted long term covid problems were just trying to counter balance them to known known long term problems of economic disaster. The economy and health are intertwined. The mistake is think that we can mitigate and try to control the virus’s spread- once you let it out of the bag at all it grows exponentially. Look at the Chinese city that they are going to sample 9 million people in 5 days. The only way to treat this virus is to stamp it out To imagine you can stamp out an airborne endemic virus is completely ridiculous they tried this with polio for a hundred years, it just popped up in pockets for years then disappeared for years, it came killed and maimed then poof, it was gone them came back and did the exact same thing, it took thirty years for the vaccine to eliminate it as a wide scale problem. Airborne endemic??? It needs a host to survive it lasts in air for just a few hours. Ok, look at Manaus in Brazil. It ran rife. No controls no strategy. Basically herd immunity experiment. Death rate was about 1 in 400( with a young population). The epidemic stalled two months ago but now cases and re infections are occurring as immunity is waning. Seriously!! Hell you think some sort of lockdown will kill all the 7000 known viruses plus the 20,000 we haven't even categorised yet? 2 billion years of evolution will be changed overnight. Good god you've been watching the BBC news 24 for way too long, go to bed and have a think about the words your writing. We are only looking at controlling Covid. Covid s weakness is that it needs to find a new host relatively quickly to survive- hence the 14 day quarantine period will cover the vast majority of infections. Far being a fan of the BBC, I think nearly all the mainstream media outlets have been struggling to cover Covid from the point of view of a future strategy. . All viruses need a host, they all die without them, they have no reproduction system whatsoever, they are the basic of basic lifeform that life evolved from." A virus isn't technically alive. It's just a rogue strand of dna, without a host. Only when it enters its host's cells can it replicate  | |||
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"Long Covid affects all ages . Even those with Asymptomatic Covid infections. 10% people who are infected by Covid are still recovering one month after infection. 1.6-2% of all people infected in the Uk are still recovering Covid months later. That’s approximately 100,000 in the UK currently and increasing daily - many of these people cannot work. Sars1 shows that this is not entirely unexpected- people have still not recovered Nearly 20 years later and it is why south East Asian / Pacific countries adopted an elimination policy immediately. Long Covid is going to be the argument that will change to long term strategy of the government from mitigation to elimination. It’s not a case of health v the economy, they both are intrinsically linked. Looks at how the countries that did early lockdown And hard. Test , test test. I felt really jealous watching The all Blacks v the Wallabies at the weekend. Full stadium , no masks, everyone having a great time. Wake up Boris. " At any one time in the past there have been thousands of people feeling under the weather looking for something to pin it on. Until recently the favourite was ME (yuppie flu). Now it's long covid. Most of the sufferers haven't tested positive but are convinced they have had it. | |||
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"Long Covid affects all ages . Even those with Asymptomatic Covid infections. 10% people who are infected by Covid are still recovering one month after infection. 1.6-2% of all people infected in the Uk are still recovering Covid months later. That’s approximately 100,000 in the UK currently and increasing daily - many of these people cannot work. Sars1 shows that this is not entirely unexpected- people have still not recovered Nearly 20 years later and it is why south East Asian / Pacific countries adopted an elimination policy immediately. Long Covid is going to be the argument that will change to long term strategy of the government from mitigation to elimination. It’s not a case of health v the economy, they both are intrinsically linked. Looks at how the countries that did early lockdown And hard. Test , test test. I felt really jealous watching The all Blacks v the Wallabies at the weekend. Full stadium , no masks, everyone having a great time. Wake up Boris. At any one time in the past there have been thousands of people feeling under the weather looking for something to pin it on. Until recently the favourite was ME (yuppie flu). Now it's long covid. Most of the sufferers haven't tested positive but are convinced they have had it." I have had long flu before. It wasn’t fun. Not all those who think they have long Covid do but it certainly exists | |||
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"And the WHO finally admits that lockdowns kill countries. The so called cure is worse than the virus." Don't waste your breath these people aren't savable, there the Muppets sat on the Titanic in dinner suits still thinking everything is fine, a little bit of water, so what, I've got my suit, the music is playing, a glass of wine in my hand, everything looks fine. | |||
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"And the WHO finally admits that lockdowns kill countries. The so called cure is worse than the virus. Don't waste your breath these people aren't savable, there the Muppets sat on the Titanic in dinner suits still thinking everything is fine, a little bit of water, so what, I've got my suit, the music is playing, a glass of wine in my hand, everything looks fine. " | |||
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"If there was a distant nuclear war and we were told to stay indoors for 14 days to avoid radiation fallout then we would obey. This virus can be deadly, certainly debilitating in the long term for many and isn’t going away without a vaccine. Failure to adhere to the hand, face space and self-isolation rules just encourages exponential growth. " We lived with flu without a vaccine for centuries. | |||
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"If there was a distant nuclear war and we were told to stay indoors for 14 days to avoid radiation fallout then we would obey. This virus can be deadly, certainly debilitating in the long term for many and isn’t going away without a vaccine. Failure to adhere to the hand, face space and self-isolation rules just encourages exponential growth. We lived with flu without a vaccine for centuries. " Are you being deliberately ignorant? It's a new virus and the ongoing health issues are still being discovered, it's not flu nor is it comparable.. My sister has had flu and is recovering from covid and it's likely her heart has been damaged which may well lead to her losing her income.. Others, many who prior to catching covid had no underlying health issues are still recovering months later.. | |||
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"That's true. Long Covid cannot be ignored anymore. A lot of focus is put on the death numbers, while ignoring the health issues relating to Long Covid. An Excerpt from the Guardian below: "Up to 60,000 people in the UK may have been suffering from “long Covid” for more than three months, unable to get the care they need to recover from prolonged and debilitating symptoms." Some of these Long Covid sufferers have had to resort to wheel chairs. Long Covid does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young, fit and healthy too. It even affects people who had no previous underlying health issues." I've not seen any pictures of the 10s of thousands of the infected students in wheelchairs, have you? | |||
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"That's true. Long Covid cannot be ignored anymore. A lot of focus is put on the death numbers, while ignoring the health issues relating to Long Covid. An Excerpt from the Guardian below: "Up to 60,000 people in the UK may have been suffering from “long Covid” for more than three months, unable to get the care they need to recover from prolonged and debilitating symptoms." Some of these Long Covid sufferers have had to resort to wheel chairs. Long Covid does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young, fit and healthy too. It even affects people who had no previous underlying health issues. I've not seen any pictures of the 10s of thousands of the infected students in wheelchairs, have you?" I never said 10s of thousands of the infected students are in wheelchairs, did I ?? | |||
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"A review has just been just published on this, if you google; Long COVID 'May Be Four Syndromes', you'll get results to the BMJ and Medscape, Medscape are the ones who have published the research paper. It's short, only two pages." https://jamanetwork.com/journals/cardiology/articlepdf/2770645/jamacardiology_rajpal_2020_ld_200012_1599591509.38224.pdf 12/26 elite athletes ( with mild Covid symptoms)had cardiac changes- which will probably have long term effects. Myocarditis is seen as a risk factor for sudden death in athletes. It’s only going to be a matter of time before an elite sports person is going to have to retire because of this . Now if you expand this to the general population- that are a lot of young people who maybe completely unaware that they have cardiac changes due to Covid. These changes are only likely to be picked up by MRI. I wonder if Pogba/ Mane or Ronaldo will have scans in the months to come | |||
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"I would surmise that most of those suffering from Long Covid are those with underlying health conditions who have not died. But it's only a best-guess speculation, since as far as I know they have not released any breakdown of figures for those suffering the after effects." Some of them would have had no underlying conditions prior to catching covid. But catching covid has now created underlying conditions which they didn’t previously have. | |||
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" Some of them would have had no underlying conditions prior to catching covid. But catching covid has now created underlying conditions which they didn’t previously have. " * More assertions posted as positive proof without any factual verification. If you are going to speculate then say so. | |||
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" Some of them would have had no underlying conditions prior to catching covid. But catching covid has now created underlying conditions which they didn’t previously have. * More assertions posted as positive proof without any factual verification. If you are going to speculate then say so." The irony in your post is pretty good. The fact that covid affects multiple organs means it'll create issues where there once was none. It is more than reasonable to say, whether fit or unhealthy, there will be ongoing effects due to how it affects. | |||
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