FabSwingers.com forum: Lockdown is not the way forward

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

Durham

At last, someone voices common sense.

We think the same way. It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

This virus is going to be around for a very long time, medics know how to treat it much better these days and much more successfully than when Covid first arrived, so let's just try and move on.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"At last, someone voices common sense.

We think the same way. It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

This virus is going to be around for a very long time, medics know how to treat it much better these days and much more successfully than when Covid first arrived, so let's just try and move on."

They can't, the testing system is in a complete mess and the track and trace system is not much better..

And some are not isolating when positive etc..

Care staff are still paid a pittance which means they have to work in up to several different care homes thus increasing the possibility of spread if asymptomatic..

There was an opportunity to have the means and resources from the government and the will of the minority to do their bit to perhaps have put us in the position where this new set of restrictions albeit not like before becomes the normal till perhaps spring but we've missed that ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start "

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start "

then get a, testing system up and running that works. Number one priority surely.we,seem incapable of doing that. Italy have a system that gives, results, within 30 mins. So what is, our problem. We, were promised a million tests, a, day back in march and April. Then Boris said we, would ramp it up to 2 million. We are, falling woefully short of those figures. Did they just think of a number then boast it out to the country to try and hoodwink us, all. They have had 6 months and look where we are heading. Back to square one. What a, balls up this lot are,. If they had got this bit right we now wouldn't be going where we are... right back into the arms of this virus. What a way to win any war

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start

It has to be arrogance to keep promising and failing to deliver time and time again. I just hope the electorate has a long memory!

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By *iverscuMan
over a year ago

Berkshire

We're in a bad way until a vaccine is out. Like many things in life people feel different about it, especially if they have been directly affected. We all need to be sensible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start "

I don't think there is anyone who thinks we shouldn't be trying to return to some level of normality but one major concern I have is the whole concept of shielding the vulnerable.

What I keep seeing from a certain group of people is that the vulnerable will have to take extra precautions etc. which on the surface seems like a sensible idea but in reality is more like the 'vulnerable' become prisoners in their own homes, denied the right to a normal life so the rest of us can go about our merry way unfettered by the responsibility of having to think about someone who is not ourselves.

I'm just not that selfish I'm afraid, I do not have an issue with sanitising, with wearing masks in public places and not meeting in large groups if it means that vulnerable people do not have to isolate.

What I would like is to see the government let the people with experience of such things, the public health officials et al, take control of the est, track and trace system and make it fit for purpose. I don't need it to be 'world beating' or whatever the bullshit phrase of the day is to pacify idiots, I just want it to work.

The private sector has shown it is incapable of doing it so it's time to let the experts take over.

Then, once we have a test, track and trace system that works, we can look at returning to normality.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start

I don't think there is anyone who thinks we shouldn't be trying to return to some level of normality but one major concern I have is the whole concept of shielding the vulnerable.

The private sector has shown it is incapable of doing it so it's time to let the experts take over.

Then, once we have a test, track and trace system that works, we can look at returning to normality."

This..

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By *iddle ManMan
over a year ago

Walsall

We tried the lockdown earlier in the year and look where we are now. Sure it helps for a short time but we can't spend our lives or the next couples of years in lockdown or with these contradictory restrictions.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

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By *heShyBiCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Coventry

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions"

Sweden

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"We tried the lockdown earlier in the year and look where we are now. Sure it helps for a short time but we can't spend our lives or the next couples of years in lockdown or with these contradictory restrictions.

Who said lockdown will last for years?

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By *az080378Woman
over a year ago

Cromer

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden"

Did Sweden not have any restrictions?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/09/20 09:49:15]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden"

It's getting to the point where I am being forced to disregard anything people who come up with Sweden as an example say. They have almost certainly no knowledge of what Sweden is like either geographically or culturally. Comparing us to Sweden is like comparing a hippopotamus to a rabbit, they are both animals with four legs but...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden

Did Sweden not have any restrictions?"

Sweden had curfew and social distancing, as such seen a minimal drop in economy and no second spike.However Sweden is a very different country, not as densely populated and possibly more crucially binge drinking is a social no no

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

Lockdown could never have been a long term solution, they do more harm than good in the long term.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Lockdown could never have been a long term solution, they do more harm than good in the long term."

It was never a long term solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden

This is true. The Sweden myth gets debinked over and over but it pops up in every thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lockdown could never have been a long term solution, they do more harm than good in the long term.

It was never a long term solution. "

In China it lasted 3 months. In Denmark 1 month.

Here... well people wanted it to be "normal" so it will drag on till we have a vaccine.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

"Lockdown could never have been a long term solution, they do more harm than good in the long term.

It was never a long term solution.

In China it lasted 3 months. In Denmark 1 month.

Here... well people wanted it to be "normal" so it will drag on till we have a vaccine. "

And in China, France, Spain etc they are still seeing rises and fluctuations in infections despite having the tougher restrictions that some people seem to be having wet dreams about introducing here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden

Did Sweden not have any restrictions?

Sweden had a ban on gatherings on more than 50 people and not allowed to congregate in pubs.

In Sweden, people trust the experts to give sound adice and the government trusts people to follow that advice, which they generally do.

In the UK the experts give absurd advice and people just do what suits them.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Lockdown was a solution in the first instance. It did it’s job.

We know a lot more about it now and treatments are moving forward at a slow but steady rate.

As we know who is vulnerable they should continue to shield with support and everyone else should abide by the lets face it simple measures that assist in slowing its spread.

But people seem to believe there is a fundamental right to be shitfaced with your mates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lockdown could never have been a long term solution, they do more harm than good in the long term.

It was never a long term solution.

In China it lasted 3 months. In Denmark 1 month.

Here... well people wanted it to be "normal" so it will drag on till we have a vaccine.

And in China, France, Spain etc they are still seeing rises and fluctuations in infections despite having the tougher restrictions that some people seem to be having wet dreams about introducing here"

This is like Donald Trump saying New Zealand was out of control because after months of no deaths they suddenly had two.

I have my eye on the Canary Islands stats because I have a holiday booked. Their numbers are on the way down whilst ours are on the way up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lockdown was a solution in the first instance. It did it’s job.

We know a lot more about it now and treatments are moving forward at a slow but steady rate.

As we know who is vulnerable they should continue to shield with support and everyone else should abide by the lets face it simple measures that assist in slowing its spread.

But people seem to believe there is a fundamental right to be shitfaced with your mates. "

bang on

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"At last, someone voices common sense.

We think the same way. It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

This virus is going to be around for a very long time, medics know how to treat it much better these days and much more successfully than when Covid first arrived, so let's just try and move on.

They can't, the testing system is in a complete mess and the track and trace system is not much better..

And some are not isolating when positive etc..

Care staff are still paid a pittance which means they have to work in up to several different care homes thus increasing the possibility of spread if asymptomatic..

The virus doesn't just harm a select few who the op thinks should be shielded.

. He believes that it's better his way but doesn't substantiate his feelings, which cannot be the way to form strategies that affect millions of lives.

Whilst the virus is doubling in the numbers of people infected every week, letting everyone loose, apart from his imagined select group, would increase the rate of exponential growth, creating an avoidable catastrophe, similar to the USA disaster.

He fails to have grasped your points, such as the testing and the tracing systems failures to work now, without throwing a doubling of the numbers of people back towards the 2 or 3 days that we had earlier this year, at systems that can't deliver at today's lower rates.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

" It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

Do you think maybe it might not be as simple as this?

If it was, why didn't every country just do this from the beginning?

For one thing, everything going entirely back to normal for every one else would mean much more virus in communities, making it harder for those vulnerable people to shield. It's very difficult to completely isolate yourself from all human contact, particularly if you have caring needs.

And then if everyone else is just 'getting on with things' many more people will get very unpleasantly sick. Even if covid doesn't kill you, it can lead to long term health issues that we don't understand yet - see 'long covid'

It will also require more testing, more hospitalisations, more people having to be off work - all things that put pressure on our services.

And then if covid is running wild through society, and people understandably don't want to go to work, are employers going to force them?

How are pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc going to make a profit if people know there are masses of cases of covid locally?

It's not only government instructions that are keeping people from living their normal lives and removing those instructions won't lead to everything going back to normal magically.

I wish people could think a little more widely beyond just 'covid doesn't tend to kill people like me so let's crack on'

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By *uttyjonnMan
over a year ago

SEA

I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

But we (the public) don't have the facts, where and why is it spreading, homes, public places, shops, public transport, schools or all of them. Until we understand this we will continue with a scatter gun approach to dealing with the virus.

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Historically a 2nd wave of any pandemic is to be expected.

The model that works is to lockdown until you have a vaccine or the infection spreads enough for herd immunity.

We are likely to be stuck with this for as long as the seasonal flu. i.e. forever.

There's very little data on the issue of mental health or cancer treatment, but realistically it's a case of "tough luck". We didn't ask for Covid anymore than we asked for cancer, but we've got it. So it's better to just find ways to adapt than make believe things will ever go back to normal.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Nobody knows what is right and what is wrong,ok have rules but if you have rules enforce them otherwise what is the point?

If people would obey basic rules of keep distance,wash hand etc and all pubs where stricter on distance no problem.

It is the ignorance and stupity of people that have no common sense causing the problem

Countries all over the world of all types of governments having same problems.

The countries doing best are those where the people are acting more responsibly.

The problem is the people right not the government 100%.

Ok throw up track and trace if people did not act like idiots no need for this on such a large scale

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By *iddle ManMan
over a year ago

Walsall

Given a lot of people seem to be against a lockdown or tighter restrictions how is it going to go down if Boris announces them tonight? We've already seen protests and such.

I'm sick of it all, I spend lockdown being cautious only to watch as those around me carried on like nothing was happening, even now having parties and mixing at the first chance. I have to be honest and say I will find it hard to follow a second time around.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

" It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

Do you think maybe it might not be as simple as this?

If it was, why didn't every country just do this from the beginning?

It will also require more testing, more hospitalisations, more people having to be off work - all things that put pressure on our services.

And then if covid is running wild through society, and people understandably don't want to go to work, are employers going to force them?

How are pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc going to make a profit if people know there are masses of cases of covid locally?

It's not only government instructions that are keeping people from living their normal lives and removing those instructions won't lead to everything going back to normal magically.

I wish people could think a little more widely beyond just 'covid doesn't tend to kill people like me so let's crack on'

This

Allowing the virus to spread exponentially will increase the deaths and more people suffering from 'Long Covid'. It will increase hospitalisations which will add more pressure to our health service. And it will affect the economy as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

Do you think maybe it might not be as simple as this?

If it was, why didn't every country just do this from the beginning?

It will also require more testing, more hospitalisations, more people having to be off work - all things that put pressure on our services.

And then if covid is running wild through society, and people understandably don't want to go to work, are employers going to force them?

How are pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc going to make a profit if people know there are masses of cases of covid locally?

It's not only government instructions that are keeping people from living their normal lives and removing those instructions won't lead to everything going back to normal magically.

I wish people could think a little more widely beyond just 'covid doesn't tend to kill people like me so let's crack on'

You are dead right. People think it's either/or when it's not.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time. "

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?"

Germany also did widespread testing and had less than 10% of our fatalities despite have a 15 million greater population...

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By *uttyjonnMan
over a year ago

SEA

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?"

If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test unless t&t get in touch.

We are not geared up for widespread testing. As for SEA most countries went into total lockdown and still are. India for example are really struggling and places like Indonesia and Philippines are still in lockdown.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The principles of fighting contagion are simple...

Find out who is infected. Find out who is not infected. Separate the two for as long as the contagion lasts.

Implementation of this is not as easy. But...

The closer one can get to this ideal the more successful you are. The further away you are the worse things get.

Slogans, rules of six, closing times etc are things that affect people, not viruses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?

If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test unless t&t get in touch.

This is the truth. We are one of the richest countries on earth, but we are emptying our treasury fighting the symptoms and not the problem itself.

Without widespread testing we've lost the battle before we've even started.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know there actually hasn’t been a impact on cancer treatments right? Scans etc are still happening and have been through out- I had a cancer scare so have experienced this myself.

The only cancer treatments that have not been given are ones where it’s deemed less safe to do so. ie because their immune systems will be too compromised.

All other non routine And urgent appointments etc have gone ahead. Some operations have been cancelled and some services but these are not life or death situations.

Contraception services have gone ahead

Sexual health services

Operations when it’s been crucial have gone ahead.

Drs appointments etc have gone ahead just in a different format

Basically the NHS hasn’t been abused for once. So stop with the bull shit that’s read in papers about people not being treated.

I’ve lost count of the people asking me if we are back open in my area- we never closed and have been working our arses off throughout

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

"We've no idea what will happen with Covid without lockdown or restrictions as no country in the world has the nerve to try it and get blamed for killing millions

Sweden

Did Sweden not have any restrictions?

Sweden had a ban on gatherings on more than 50 people and not allowed to congregate in pubs.

In Sweden, people trust the experts to give sound adice and the government trusts people to follow that advice, which they generally do.

In the UK the experts give absurd advice and people just do what suits them."

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"You know there actually hasn’t been a impact on cancer treatments right? Scans etc are still happening and have been through out- I had a cancer scare so have experienced this myself.

The only cancer treatments that have not been given are ones where it’s deemed less safe to do so. ie because their immune systems will be too compromised.

All other non routine And urgent appointments etc have gone ahead. Some operations have been cancelled and some services but these are not life or death situations.

Contraception services have gone ahead

Sexual health services

Operations when it’s been crucial have gone ahead.

Drs appointments etc have gone ahead just in a different format

Basically the NHS hasn’t been abused for once. So stop with the bull shit that’s read in papers about people not being treated.

I’ve lost count of the people asking me if we are back open in my area- we never closed and have been working our arses off throughout

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very early on in this pandemic a number of epidemiologists cited that we had locked down too late. The reality is they are probably correct, the level of infection in this country got to a point where we can’t manage it.

We can blame track and trace etc but when we are dealing with 1000’s of newly infected people a day it’s an impossible task to track the people they have also contacted... We are chasing shadows.

Unfortunately we are suffering the consequences of our mistakes, covid will be a major issue for a good while yet and the reality is we have to suffer that.

Without lockdown/restrictions we will be overwhelmed treating those badly infected that’s the reality. People need to accept that and play their part in what is a damage limitation exercise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?

Germany also did widespread testing and had less than 10% of our fatalities despite have a 15 million greater population... "

Landmass is greater, less densely populated areas?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You know there actually hasn’t been a impact on cancer treatments right? Scans etc are still happening and have been through out- I had a cancer scare so have experienced this myself.

The only cancer treatments that have not been given are ones where it’s deemed less safe to do so. ie because their immune systems will be too compromised.

All other non routine And urgent appointments etc have gone ahead. Some operations have been cancelled and some services but these are not life or death situations.

Contraception services have gone ahead

Sexual health services

Operations when it’s been crucial have gone ahead.

Drs appointments etc have gone ahead just in a different format

Basically the NHS hasn’t been abused for once. So stop with the bull shit that’s read in papers about people not being treated.

I’ve lost count of the people asking me if we are back open in my area- we never closed and have been working our arses off throughout

Sorry to hear about your scare and hope all is clear.

Yes I am aware that they are still ongoing, how funding on research has been postponed and redirected towards covid. More worryingly people are scared to go for checks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Very early on in this pandemic a number of epidemiologists cited that we had locked down too late. The reality is they are probably correct, the level of infection in this country got to a point where we can’t manage it.

We can blame track and trace etc but when we are dealing with 1000’s of newly infected people a day it’s an impossible task to track the people they have also contacted... We are chasing shadows.

Unfortunately we are suffering the consequences of our mistakes, covid will be a major issue for a good while yet and the reality is we have to suffer that.

Without lockdown/restrictions we will be overwhelmed treating those badly infected that’s the reality. People need to accept that and play their part in what is a damage limitation exercise."

Wise words as always.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?

Germany also did widespread testing and had less than 10% of our fatalities despite have a 15 million greater population... "

Yes that's true about Germany, I was going to mention that too.

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By *heShyBiCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Coventry

Jesus christ people calm down. I said 'Sweden' not 'Sweden is like the UK therefore no lockdown.'

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"I don't think lockdown is the answer and don't think widespread testing is the answer too, if you have symptoms isolate and test the front liners

We (the public) don't know what % of have had the virus, how many had no symptoms and how many seriously ill.

We need to get back to some semblance of normality albeit with sensible precautions which will be with us for a long time.

"...don't think widespread testing is the answer too..

-----------

Widespread testing is how some countries in South East Asia have controlled the spread.

"...if you have symptoms isolate..."

And what happens to those who are infected but have no symptoms ? ? See why social distancing and other restrictions need to be in place?

If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test unless t&t get in touch.

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

Which is why other measures / restrictions (lockdown, SD etc) need to be in place to reduce the spread until we have a better test, track and trace system in place. We can't go back to 'normal life' at this stage.

When I mentioned South East Asia, I was referring to South Korea, not India. South Korea did not lockdown, they controlled the spread through an effective and efficient test-track-trace-and isolate system.

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By *andm288Couple
over a year ago

oxford

"At last, someone voices common sense.

We think the same way. It's not fair but the vulnerable need to take extra precautions, and let the rest of the country move forwards.

This virus is going to be around for a very long time, medics know how to treat it much better these days and much more successfully than when Covid first arrived, so let's just try and move on."

At last someone with common sense

I could not agree more with the Op

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By *uttyjonnMan
over a year ago

SEA

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Professor Woolhouse from Edinburgh University is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group and advises the government.

He recently said that Trying to control Covid-19 through a lockdown as a monumental mistake.

90 doctors and scientists in Israel, including a Nobel prize winner, recently concluded 'A closure is thus a strategic mistake, based on a lack of basic understanding of the mechanisms of a pandemic'.

A letter signed by 394 medical doctors and 1343 health professionals in Belgium has just been sent to the Belgium Government where they argue that there is no medical justification for any further Covid restrictions – the medical evidence just doesn’t support them.

Now more recently in the UK 32 scientists including,

Professor Sunetra Gupta; Professor of theoretical epidemiology, the University of Oxford

Professor Carl Heneghan; Director, Centre for Evidence Based Medicine, the University of Oxford

Professor Karol Sikora; Consultant oncologist and Professor of medicine, University of Buckingham

Sam Williams; Director and co-founder of Economic Insight

have written to the government to say that "that the existing policy path is inconsistent with the known risk-profile of Covid-19 and should be reconsidered."

Time to wake up and realise that we could never do anything other than try and slow the rate of spread (as originally proposed to stop the NHS being overwhelmed). Now many thousands of excess collateral deaths and a ruined economy are the result of this flawed policy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/"

According to antibody tests Stockholm has less than 20% infection. The experts say you need 70 or 80% for herd immunity. But I guess that differs from area to area depending on population density.

I had a thread going about the production of Vitamin D being a factor in the Covid-19 equation and there have been articles suggesting that our Nordic friends are less susceptible to Covid-19. This would suggest a low sunlight population may require less sunlight to produce Vitamin D than people who originate from sunnier environments and require more sunlight to produce the same amount. Why I am mentioning this is because we are heading into winter instead of heading into summer...

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

We can blame track and trace etc but when we are dealing with 1000’s of newly infected people a day it’s an impossible task to track the people they have also contacted... We are chasing shadows.

Unfortunately we are suffering the consequences of our mistakes, covid will be a major issue for a good while yet and the reality is we have to suffer that.

Without lockdown/restrictions we will be overwhelmed treating those badly infected that’s the reality. People need to accept that and play their part in what is a damage limitation exercise."

Exactly This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

According to antibody tests Stockholm has less than 20% infection. The experts say you need 70 or 80% for herd immunity. But I guess that differs from area to area depending on population density.

You mean like there's an evolutionary reason as to why there white?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

According to antibody tests Stockholm has less than 20% infection. The experts say you need 70 or 80% for herd immunity. But I guess that differs from area to area depending on population density.

You mean like there's an evolutionary reason as to why there white?."

I'm saying there is a direct correlation between skin darkness and Vitamin D production.

It makes sense to me. If all humans produced the same Vitamin D then people in low sunlight countries would be deficienct and high sinlight countries over produce.

Northern Italy was hit much harder than Southern Italy for example... our own BAME population was hit harder than those with Nordic ancestry. Sure there are other factors, but it fits.

Also older people produce less Vitamin D... starting in their mid sixties... why does this sound so familiar? Also fits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reality check people... we are not Sweden, if we where I’d be posting as Ulrika Grace.

Swedens population is 1/6th of ours, the land mass... huge in comparison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start

I don't think there is anyone who thinks we shouldn't be trying to return to some level of normality but one major concern I have is the whole concept of shielding the vulnerable.

The private sector has shown it is incapable of doing it so it's time to let the experts take over.

Then, once we have a test, track and trace system that works, we can look at returning to normality."
.

To be fair you sound like you just want everybody to be in the same predicament as the vulnerable?.

I don't want to be tracked and traced by anybody let alone the government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

According to antibody tests Stockholm has less than 20% infection. The experts say you need 70 or 80% for herd immunity. But I guess that differs from area to area depending on population density.

You mean like there's an evolutionary reason as to why there white?.

I'm saying there is a direct correlation between skin darkness and Vitamin D production.

It makes sense to me. If all humans produced the same Vitamin D then people in low sunlight countries would be deficienct and high sinlight countries over produce.

Northern Italy was hit much harder than Southern Italy for example... our own BAME population was hit harder than those with Nordic ancestry. Sure there are other factors, but it fits.

Also older people produce less Vitamin D... starting in their mid sixties... why does this sound so familiar? Also fits."
. Maybe a little but I think it's just a little bit, it's more to do with this stat, the top ten countries with the highest death rate from covid are also the top ten countries who vaccinate against influenza to the highest level, we've just got way more old and vulnerable.

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy

"In my opinion. Here me out, I know this might be a very unpopular opinion.

I personally believe (so this is not gospel) that in the long term lockdown will do more damage than covid will do.

There's already an impact on cancer treatments, people's mental health and the economy. Another lockdown will see these impacted long after covid.

Plus if you keep locking down, the virus is still out there when restrictions are lifted so we will have to keep locking down till if/when a vacine is found.

There needs to be a way to live with it. A return to shielding the vulnerable would be a good start

Test and trace is pointless now when it’s endemic throughout the population. The chance to do this was back at the start, but Vallance advised the government to stop this.

We really need to wake up here. We’re just not used to death this is the problem, but, we’re in a pandemic. We have to face the facts, however hard this is. People always die in pandemics. This isn’t going to be any different. Trying to stop this is fruitless. It will do what an infectious disease does. All restrictions and lockdowns are doing is drawing out the inevitable. It’s akin to kicking the can down the road. In the process we’re going to cause an economic, social and educational disaster, if we stay on this path we’re on, for years to come. Many more people will die and be impacted long term as a result of what the government are doing now, than if we shield the vulnerable and let 65 million people get on with their lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Test and trace is pointless now when it’s endemic throughout the population. The chance to do this was back at the start, but Vallance advised the government to stop this.

You completely fail to realise the mechanics of this pandemic, if we take that approach a huge number of people will die, support structures will be unable to cope. It’s an utter nonsense

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy

"Test and trace is pointless now when it’s endemic throughout the population. The chance to do this was back at the start, but Vallance advised the government to stop this.

You completely fail to realise the mechanics of this pandemic, if we take that approach a huge number of people will die, support structures will be unable to cope. It’s an utter nonsense"

A bit like the peak on April 11th, 19 days after lockdown when NHS capacity reached 42%...

More people will die long term doing what we're doing now.

Maybe after two or three more years of these restrictions and lockdowns the penny might drop.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective"

If we are to strike a balance what price would be enough for you to sacrifice your parent or grandparent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the whole Sweden issue. Interesting blog by a Swedish GP

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

According to antibody tests Stockholm has less than 20% infection. The experts say you need 70 or 80% for herd immunity. But I guess that differs from area to area depending on population density.

You mean like there's an evolutionary reason as to why there white?.

I'm saying there is a direct correlation between skin darkness and Vitamin D production.

It makes sense to me. If all humans produced the same Vitamin D then people in low sunlight countries would be deficienct and high sinlight countries over produce.

Northern Italy was hit much harder than Southern Italy for example... our own BAME population was hit harder than those with Nordic ancestry. Sure there are other factors, but it fits.

Also older people produce less Vitamin D... starting in their mid sixties... why does this sound so familiar? Also fits.. Maybe a little but I think it's just a little bit, it's more to do with this stat, the top ten countries with the highest death rate from covid are also the top ten countries who vaccinate against influenza to the highest level, we've just got way more old and vulnerable."

Some of the least hit countries vaccinate against flu too. But you have a point that having a larger aged population will affect data.

We have 5 million people over 65. That has more to do with baby boomers than vaccinations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Test and trace is pointless now when it’s endemic throughout the population. The chance to do this was back at the start, but Vallance advised the government to stop this.

You completely fail to realise the mechanics of this pandemic, if we take that approach a huge number of people will die, support structures will be unable to cope. It’s an utter nonsense

A bit like the peak on April 11th, 19 days after lockdown when NHS capacity reached 42%...

More people will die long term doing what we're doing now.

Maybe after two or three more years of these restrictions and lockdowns the penny might drop. "

And what capacity did HDU, ICU’s reach during this time? You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about... there was huge capacity in the NHS in areas such as A&E, fracture clinics etc. But it’s capacity which offers zero help to the critical needs of the pandemic.

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy

"Test and trace is pointless now when it’s endemic throughout the population. The chance to do this was back at the start, but Vallance advised the government to stop this.

You completely fail to realise the mechanics of this pandemic, if we take that approach a huge number of people will die, support structures will be unable to cope. It’s an utter nonsense

A bit like the peak on April 11th, 19 days after lockdown when NHS capacity reached 42%...

More people will die long term doing what we're doing now.

Maybe after two or three more years of these restrictions and lockdowns the penny might drop.

I just told you. NHS ICU capacity at the peak was 42% across the U.K. after almost three weeks of lockdown. There's your lag & incubation period. Lord Sumption a respected former Supreme Court Judge mentioned this on various radio stations last week.

Don't believe everything the government tells you.

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By *uttyjonnMan
over a year ago

SEA

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective

If we are to strike a balance what price would be enough for you to sacrifice your parent or grandparent?"

Someone needs to look at the numbers and come up with an acceptable figure, although it sounds callous that's life.

Flu kills many people each year and that is acceptable to us. If covid had killed one grandparent we wouldn't be having this conversation but it would be tragic to the family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective

If we are to strike a balance what price would be enough for you to sacrifice your parent or grandparent?

Someone needs to look at the numbers and come up with an acceptable figure, although it sounds callous that's life.

Flu kills many people each year and that is acceptable to us. If covid had killed one grandparent we wouldn't be having this conversation but it would be tragic to the family

So here is something you won't see a lot of articles on. Because the same social distancing measures, handwashing, masks etc curb the same transmission method as influenza there has been a sharp decline in flu deaths.

This means that flu, which has been used so many times as an excuse to poo-poo Covid-19, is just one more reason to adhere to the rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whow the ammount of people who still think this whole thing is legit is so worrying. U ARE BEING LIED TO! Why are you trusting the government and WHO, all controlled by the Zionist NWO cabal. Please if you really do think this covid crap is genuine get off bbc or sky and watch 'Plandemic Indoctoration' it explains it all who's behind it and why. YouTube is shutting down any narrative that goes against the mainstream so you'll have to go to bitchute. Please do your research away from mainstream you'll find within 15 mins WE ARE BEING PLAYED. The scumbags control all western governments and 90% of media. If not for yourself do a bit of research for your kids ffs

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By *az080378Woman
over a year ago

Cromer

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective

If we are to strike a balance what price would be enough for you to sacrifice your parent or grandparent?

Someone needs to look at the numbers and come up with an acceptable figure, although it sounds callous that's life.

Flu kills many people each year and that is acceptable to us. If covid had killed one grandparent we wouldn't be having this conversation but it would be tragic to the family

Flu does not kill the same amount of people as covid...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...If you don't have symptoms you ain't going to go for a test..."

---------------------------

That's exactly the point I am making. If you don't have symptoms you won't go for a test and you won't know you've had it - but you could still be spreading it.

But you are not going to eradicate the virus by any method being proposed, just slowing it.

If the plan is to slow it till we get a vaccine it could go on for a long time and the young generation and probably the next will be paying for this.

I understand people saying you cannot put a price on life but we have to strike a balance.

But that's just my perspective

If we are to strike a balance what price would be enough for you to sacrifice your parent or grandparent?

Someone needs to look at the numbers and come up with an acceptable figure, although it sounds callous that's life.

Flu kills many people each year and that is acceptable to us. If covid had killed one grandparent we wouldn't be having this conversation but it would be tragic to the family

Flu does not kill the same amount of people as covid..."

"Lockdowns and social-distancing measures aimed at slowing the spread of coronavirus seem to have shortened the influenza season in the northern hemisphere by about six weeks.

Globally, an estimated 290,000–650,000 people typically die from seasonal flu, so a shorter flu season could mean tens of thousands of lives are spared"