FabSwingers.com forum: A quick bit of research

By *est Wales Wife OP Couple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

You are right, these other reasons for death are not ok. If only there was a way to successfully reduce those figures like the measures taken have reduced the covid related deaths.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

You are right, these other reasons for death are not ok. If only there was a way to successfully reduce those figures like the measures taken have reduced the covid related deaths.

Cal"

Of course you’re right Cal but throw tens of billions of pounds at either and there’d be a marked improvement. Why is that a good idea for COVID but not even considered for the other two?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very interesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Very interesting "

Peter Hitchens spoke out from day one about this issue life versus life, I'll be honest never like Hitchens much up till then but we have to listen to all sides to get balance and perspective.

Good thread and all lives matter surely all sides can agree with that point of view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

Yes not many are dying now but at least 5% of all people infected by Covid are still recovering.

Long Covid is a complete bugger and is going to affect thousands of people for years. SARS 1 patients that are still alive are still living very debilitating lives and some are young people.

It’s not a flu, it’s far more sinister than that.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

Excellent, would you be happier if it were more dying from Covid?

We could go back to normal and find out

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By *eard-lincolnMan
over a year ago

near lincoln

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

Air pollution reduced significantly during lockdown and the government and businesses could have used that opportunity To keep air pollution down. But instead they advise go back to work.

Who said the deaths from other causes are fine ? Pretty sure no one has .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How boring can you get....

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

"Very interesting

Peter Hitchens spoke out from day one about this issue life versus life, I'll be honest never like Hitchens much up till then but we have to listen to all sides to get balance and perspective.

Good thread and all lives matter surely all sides can agree with that point of view.

You would be surprised!

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

Yes not many are dying now but at least 5% of all people infected by Covid are still recovering.

Long Covid is a complete bugger and is going to affect thousands of people for years. SARS 1 patients that are still alive are still living very debilitating lives and some are young people.

It’s not a flu, it’s far more sinister than that."

Well.if you put it that way, flu is a killer anyway.

The flu jab only protects, apparently, from the types of flu that NICE and PHE reckon that will be prevalent in that year. If another strain comes in, you're not protected.

There is no cure for

SARS (which covid 19 is one)

Ebola

Bird flu

Swine flu

Spanish flu which killed millions.

Bubonic plague

Covid 18/17/16 etc

Chances of a cure for covid 19?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

Air pollution reduced significantly during lockdown and the government and businesses could have used that opportunity To keep air pollution down. But instead they advise go back to work.

Who said the deaths from other causes are fine ? Pretty sure no one has . "
. So what do you mean by opportunity.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

What are the contributing and confounding factors to each mortality and morbidity rate? What confidence intervals are we talking about? Are the data collection methods consistent?

How do we mitigate each, what's the relative risk? Do some mitigation measures assist in other death rates? Is your interpretation a full interpretation of the data?

If you've done research rather than just a bit of Googling and motivated reasoning, you might find some of these answers.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And did anyone say that other deaths are fine? Or is this "I think Covid-19 isn't a big deal, if you're at risk fuck you, so *throws other suffering around*"

Personally my contribution to air pollution has likely declined because I'm not going outside walking distance. And I do work that directly assists in mental health (of those whose mental health is worsened by having to shield from the dangers of an uncontrolled pandemic

)

Yeah. Fuck air pollution and mental health. Or... maybe people can have multiple priorities?

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By *9alMan
over a year ago

Bridgend

the problem is that people don't die of Covid straight away it takes a few weeks. if the number of cases is going up now, deaths will start going up soon we need action now rather than waiting for the death rate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"the problem is that people don't die of Covid straight away it takes a few weeks. if the number of cases is going up now, deaths will start going up soon we need action now rather than waiting for the death rate. "

And even if those being infected now are young, they might not die. (They might suffer long term health effects) But those who are likely to die can't entirely avoid contact with the outside world. They have to have groceries, carers, etc, even if they've not stepped outside since March (a reality for some).

So they might be fine, and might not care. Their carelessness might lead to unnecessary suffering and death.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read an interesting article yesterday On the theory that the introduction of masks may have cut viral load in those who do contract COVID-19 which is resulting in more asymptomatic carriers and inadvertently assisting with herd immunity also the fact that most new infections are among the young. Larger numbers but much lower deaths.

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By *oonloverWoman
over a year ago

bognor regis

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!"

You really don't have a clue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!"

Some people never cease to amaze

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can’t catch suicide.

I agree that deaths from suicide and air pollution are dreadful though, yet people keeping electing a party that cuts mental health provision and is soft on pollution so what do you suggest?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!"

Oh god, let's not do that.

Suicide is often a desperate last resort that we should help save people from.

My work currently involves suicide mitigation alongside helping people shield against the huge risk to them if they contract Covid-19.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"You can’t catch suicide.

I agree that deaths from suicide and air pollution are dreadful though, yet people keeping electing a party that cuts mental health provision and is soft on pollution so what do you suggest?"

"Lockdown" is bad so look at literally anything else. Don't care about that either, but fuck protecting people from a pandemic, so insert excuses here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can’t catch suicide.

I agree that deaths from suicide and air pollution are dreadful though, yet people keeping electing a party that cuts mental health provision and is soft on pollution so what do you suggest?

"Lockdown" is bad so look at literally anything else. Don't care about that either, but fuck protecting people from a pandemic, so insert excuses here."

It’s amazing how many people are adamant that ‘something’ should be done! They are of course even more adamant that ‘something’ should not affect them at all adversely.

Often they’re the same people who call people ‘snowflakes’ and go on about the sacrifice people made during wars fought before they were born; they aren’t even prepared to sacrifice their cheap pint at Wetherspoons though.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"You can’t catch suicide.

I agree that deaths from suicide and air pollution are dreadful though, yet people keeping electing a party that cuts mental health provision and is soft on pollution so what do you suggest?

"Lockdown" is bad so look at literally anything else. Don't care about that either, but fuck protecting people from a pandemic, so insert excuses here.

It’s amazing how many people are adamant that ‘something’ should be done! They are of course even more adamant that ‘something’ should not affect them at all adversely.

Agreed.

Something should indeed be done.

Some of us are doing it.

And that doesn't mean that we should stop protecting people from the pandemic. (I do quite often switch in my work between "Covid rules/ distancing etc" and mental health first aid)

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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago

Camarthen

Close member of family commits suicide you get very little help to deal with it or counceling unless you ask for it, you lose a few weeks work due to lockdown and Welsh government gives you 10k with very few questions asked.

Whole situation is a joke!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can’t catch suicide.

I agree that deaths from suicide and air pollution are dreadful though, yet people keeping electing a party that cuts mental health provision and is soft on pollution so what do you suggest?

"Lockdown" is bad so look at literally anything else. Don't care about that either, but fuck protecting people from a pandemic, so insert excuses here.

It’s amazing how many people are adamant that ‘something’ should be done! They are of course even more adamant that ‘something’ should not affect them at all adversely.

Agreed.

Something should indeed be done.

Some of us are doing it.

And that doesn't mean that we should stop protecting people from the pandemic. (I do quite often switch in my work between "Covid rules/ distancing etc" and mental health first aid)"

Definitely, I just think protecting people should not mean telling them they need to stay indoors so everyone else can get back to normal, which seems to have become quite the popular opinion on here of late.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Definitely, I just think protecting people should not mean telling them they need to stay indoors so everyone else can get back to normal, which seems to have become quite the popular opinion on here of late."

Yes. "Fuck you, get inside, I wanna party" is appalling.

Those inside are suffering more than you know. Those inside lack appropriate care because it's not always safe to provide it.

Think of others FFS. And even if you can't... Every person who reduces their risk of transmission helps us be able to begin recovery sooner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. "Fuck you, get inside, I wanna party" is appalling.

Those inside are suffering more than you know. Those inside lack appropriate care because it's not always safe to provide it.

Think of others FFS. And even if you can't... Every person who reduces their risk of transmission helps us be able to begin recovery sooner."

We can only hope that people’s new found concern for mental health and the environment lasts until the next election.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Yes. "Fuck you, get inside, I wanna party" is appalling.

Those inside are suffering more than you know. Those inside lack appropriate care because it's not always safe to provide it.

Think of others FFS. And even if you can't... Every person who reduces their risk of transmission helps us be able to begin recovery sooner.

We can only hope that people’s new found concern for mental health and the environment lasts until the next election."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. "Fuck you, get inside, I wanna party" is appalling.

Those inside are suffering more than you know. Those inside lack appropriate care because it's not always safe to provide it.

Think of others FFS. And even if you can't... Every person who reduces their risk of transmission helps us be able to begin recovery sooner.

We can only hope that people’s new found concern for mental health and the environment lasts until the next election.

This is a serious matter and I’m absolutely certain they are sincere in their concerns and not just looking for a reason to be allowed to fuck a stranger off of the Internet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!"

It's a choice when they feel there is no other option.

If even 10% of the money that's been spent on COVID was spent on mental health services we could save and improve so many lives.

Sadly the deaths caused by the effects of COVID on mental health, will likely far outweigh the actual number of deaths from COVID long term

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Yes. "Fuck you, get inside, I wanna party" is appalling.

Those inside are suffering more than you know. Those inside lack appropriate care because it's not always safe to provide it.

Think of others FFS. And even if you can't... Every person who reduces their risk of transmission helps us be able to begin recovery sooner.

We can only hope that people’s new found concern for mental health and the environment lasts until the next election.

This is a serious matter and I’m absolutely certain they are sincere in their concerns and not just looking for a reason to be allowed to fuck a stranger off of the Internet. "

My faith in humanity is at an all time low, I'm afraid.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

You are right, these other reasons for death are not ok. If only there was a way to successfully reduce those figures like the measures taken have reduced the covid related deaths.

Cal

------

Of course you’re right Cal but throw tens of billions of pounds at either and there’d be a marked improvement. Why is that a good idea for COVID but not even considered for the other two?"

The thing is, it's not a choice between doing one thing or another. Obviously suicide isn't something that can be treated, but many of the triggers that drive people to that level of desperation are well documented, so there are many areas to focus some resources.

Air quality is a more difficult problem, the current policy of taxing people into reducing emissions just doesn't work. Instead it gets people angry and unfairly penalises those who a least able to change. Positive incentives would be much more popular and you really need to get the masses on board to make progress.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!

You really don't have a clue "

alas people still think it is a choice so much for awareness...I ve been there and it sure as hell was not through choice!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine."

That’s a genius but of maths... Now do the same thing for the entire year from March and realise you need a new abacus x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!

You really don't have a clue

alas people still think it is a choice so much for awareness...I ve been there and it sure as hell was not through choice!!"

If you've been to the point of suicide, you either failed or chose to live. I can see the poster's pov, it's just the way it's put appears to lack empathy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicide is a choice!

COVID-19 isn’t!"

OMFG.

I can't even.

WHAT?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have never found a reason to block anyone on here upto now.

A first well done.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I remember at the start of this pandemic, someone predicting that if/when lockdown succeeded in saving lives, people would then start saying 'people aren't dying, what's the big deal!'

Bit sad how right they were.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I remember at the start of this pandemic, someone predicting that if/when lockdown succeeded in saving lives, people would then start saying 'people aren't dying, what's the big deal!'

Bit sad how right they were.

Lockdown saves lives therefore lockdown isn't necessary

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Here's a quick bit of research I just did. All figures relate to the UK

The average daily deaths for the last 2 weeks where CV19 is mentioned is 9. That doesn't mean CV19 killed them by the way.

The average daily deaths (2018) for suicides is 18. That will almost certainly have risen substantially since due to CV19

The average daily deaths associated with air pollution is 175 (2019 estimate European Heart Journal)

Basically twice as many are dying from suicide and approximately ten times as many from air pollution but that's all fine.

Yes not many are dying now but at least 5% of all people infected by Covid are still recovering.

Long Covid is a complete bugger and is going to affect thousands of people for years. SARS 1 patients that are still alive are still living very debilitating lives and some are young people.

It’s not a flu, it’s far more sinister than that."

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By *moothman2000Man
over a year ago

Leicestershire

Need to be a little bit careful with the suicide figures.

I had a look at these yesterday and the latest (2020) figures contain 2019 suicides as well.

Reason for suicide isn't recorded as a statistic, so while some of the suicides may be attributable to the pandemic, some won't be.

That's the essence of the statement of the CEO of the Samaritans, so far more clued up on this than me.

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By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford

If Covid gets a grip the death figures per day double, after a short period they double again then again and again.. it takes little time to go from 1/day to 100’s per day

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