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"Apparently bars in France have to close at 11pm.. You can't Catch it before 11pm I am guessing.." I'm sure you can but I'm guessing its part of their measures to try and control it. | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought..." So you go to the bar at 1pm and leave at 11pm ? | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought... So you go to the bar at 1pm and leave at 11pm ? " That's an hour safer than 12pm. | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought... So you go to the bar at 1pm and leave at 11pm ? That's an hour safer than 12pm." Fill your boots.. good luck with that one | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought... So you go to the bar at 1pm and leave at 11pm ? " The French dont have the same drinking culture as sections of the English public. | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought... So you go to the bar at 1pm and leave at 11pm ? That's an hour safer than 12pm. Fill your boots.. good luck with that one" I don't drink, so no skin off my nose. | |||
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"What a load of bullshit. " Totally agree. Oh unless they have told the virus it can’t go into French pubs before 11:15 lol. Same as when they set a time for Quarantine from a country. Your safe if you land at 3:59 but not safe if your back in England at 4:01. | |||
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"What a load of bullshit. Totally agree. Oh unless they have told the virus it can’t go into French pubs before 11:15 lol. Same as when they set a time for Quarantine from a country. Your safe if you land at 3:59 but not safe if your back in England at 4:01. " Would you prefer it if everything was permanently locked down? There has to be a cut off...just like the speed limit is 30 but hey why not 31 or 32. | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought..." Yes... in Greece it’s 12, I think in Lagos Nigeria it’s still 12, has been for some time. So it cuts the socialising from 6 hours to 2-3 hours per night as people in hot countries don’t get out for dinner till 9 or 10 if they are working. | |||
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"It's either a safe environment or it's not... Surely" Currently its not but we are making some tentative first steps....the other option is permanent lockdown. | |||
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"Well it's obviously safe until 11pm After that it's like Cinderella.. Boing Boing Boing.. So you get ill and then say.. They said it was safe before 11pm.. Ludicrous nonsense " No one, other than you, are sayng its safe. | |||
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"Well it's obviously safe until 11pm After that it's like Cinderella.. Boing Boing Boing.. So you get ill and then say.. They said it was safe before 11pm.. Ludicrous nonsense No one, other than you, are sayng its safe." So your saying it's not safe... So why go... | |||
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"Well it's obviously safe until 11pm After that it's like Cinderella.. Boing Boing Boing.. So you get ill and then say.. They said it was safe before 11pm.. Ludicrous nonsense " Who has said it was safe before 11pm? | |||
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"Well it's obviously safe until 11pm After that it's like Cinderella.. Boing Boing Boing.. So you get ill and then say.. They said it was safe before 11pm.. Ludicrous nonsense No one, other than you, are sayng its safe. So your saying it's not safe... So why go..." I'm not going | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me " Fill your boots .. | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me " But that's not black and white so it will be dismissed straightaway. | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me But that's not black and white so it will be dismissed straightaway." Don't forget it's basic maths.. | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me But that's not black and white so it will be dismissed straightaway. Don't forget it's basic maths.. " So what's your problem with it then? | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me But that's not black and white so it will be dismissed straightaway. Don't forget it's basic maths.. So what's your problem with it then?" It's flawed maths | |||
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"Apparently bars in France have to close at 11pm.. You can't Catch it before 11pm I am guessing.. I'm sure you can but I'm guessing its part of their measures to try and control it." Its like parents telling there daughters to be home by a certain time,they used to think that stopped them getting pregnant  | |||
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"Apparently bars in France have to close at 11pm.. You can't Catch it before 11pm I am guessing.. I'm sure you can but I'm guessing its part of their measures to try and control it.Its like parents telling there daughters to be home by a certain time,they used to think that stopped them getting pregnant "This.. Do you sit there from 8-11 you are safe but enter at 10 and you only have one hour.. Explain that one... | |||
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"Apparently bars in France have to close at 11pm.. You can't Catch it before 11pm I am guessing.. I'm sure you can but I'm guessing its part of their measures to try and control it.Its like parents telling there daughters to be home by a certain time,they used to think that stopped them getting pregnant "Not a great analogy... Its a bit like wanting them home by a certain time so they weren't around as many piss heads for as along... Thereby reducing the likelihood they'd come into contact with someone undesirable. | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me But that's not black and white so it will be dismissed straightaway." I would think closing at 11pm is pretty black and white ... | |||
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"Back to the old days when I was a teen in the 1980's 11pm kickout I think it was
"Haha me too! Last orders | |||
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"It’s only flawed if you’re looking for a way round the guidelines or bleating about ‘losing my rights’ or some such idiotic notion. It’s a fine balance between economy, public health and freedom of movement .... shorter opening hours is an effort to meet the needs of three conflicting requirements. What’s not to understand? " Your maths... | |||
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"Back to the old days when I was a teen in the 1980's 11pm kickout I think it was
Haha me too! Last orders " | |||
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"Back to the old days when I was a teen in the 1980's 11pm kickout I think it was
Haha me too! Last orders
"Ahh the big brass bell lol | |||
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"It’s only flawed if you’re looking for a way round the guidelines or bleating about ‘losing my rights’ or some such idiotic notion. It’s a fine balance between economy, public health and freedom of movement .... shorter opening hours is an effort to meet the needs of three conflicting requirements. What’s not to understand? " Your points! Previously teachers shouldn’t be back at school.... now 11pm is the correct control for closing bars to prevent/ reduce transmission! It’s good that you now seek to balance the economy, public health and freedom of movement. The very best we can expect from a teacher is to learn! I spend 4 hours 7-11in a bar with 300 people 3 of which are Covid positive, or I spend 4 hours (8-12)in a bar with 300 people 3 of which are Covid positive... statistically which would result in higher rates of transmission? | |||
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"Think the early cut off helps with the people who get too d*unk to comply with local regulations as well. Rather it be early closing than nothing." Even if closing early has no effect? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11?" The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple | |||
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"At the minute,they think it does. If they find otherwise,of course close them." .... or leave them open? Do you think it makes a difference ? .... beyond saying they think so ? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple " You’d need a control ? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? " No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not" Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) " Clearly, methodology in the field of epidemiology goes over your head... | |||
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"It’s basic maths staff have less time in contact with customers, customers have less time with each other - why ludicrous? Also considering viral load it makes perfect sense to me Fill your boots .. " "...Fill your boots ....." ----------------------- I'll say fill your head - with basic maths.  | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) Clearly, methodology in the field of epidemiology goes over your head... " Clearly ... hence I asked ? .... now ... as you’ve highlighted my lack of knowledge ( which I’m pretty sure asking the question did!) can you explain further the methodology please... in layman’s terms? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) Clearly, methodology in the field of epidemiology goes over your head... Clearly ... hence I asked ? .... now ... as you’ve highlighted my lack of knowledge ( which I’m pretty sure asking the question did!) can you explain further the methodology please... in layman’s terms? " You don’t need to specifically study those visiting bars, the effect on the overall population of the measure introduced should give an indication of whether the measure is effective or not and the level of efficacy. Daily/weekly number of overall new cases compared with periods when the measure hadn’t been introduced yet would determine whether the measure is considered helpful or not | |||
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"Well it's obviously safe until 11pm After that it's like Cinderella.. Boing Boing Boing.. So you get ill and then say.. They said it was safe before 11pm.. Ludicrous nonsense " You really dont get it? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) Clearly, methodology in the field of epidemiology goes over your head... Clearly ... hence I asked ? .... now ... as you’ve highlighted my lack of knowledge ( which I’m pretty sure asking the question did!) can you explain further the methodology please... in layman’s terms? You don’t need to specifically study those visiting bars, the effect on the overall population of the measure introduced should give an indication of whether the measure is effective or not and the level of efficacy. Daily/weekly number of overall new cases compared with periods when the measure hadn’t been introduced yet would determine whether the measure is considered helpful or not" So there are no other variables to be measured.... a decline is a success due to closing early, status quo or higher shows the control to be ineffective? Is that right? | |||
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"It's part of limiting the spread and to allow cleaning. Not rocket science but you keep moaning!!" Was this a reply to someone? | |||
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"So it's safe between 8 and 10 as long as they shut at 11? The art of being deliberately obtuse... or plainly obtuse... No one is saying is safe between those hours, it’s a compromise as it was pointed out before and a way to try to reduce the overall risk or transmission in the community, it’s a basic concept. The results should be assessed and the strategy may be to be changed if not effective, simple You’d need a control ? No, this it’s not a lab study that requires a control sample, the comparison of figures in the number of new cases per week should give an indication of whether is working or not Sorry I don’t know the full story.... is this a reduction in the final hour ? Two? From previous week? A study of those visiting bars, and staying till the last, in isolation ? (With no other factors ? ) Clearly, methodology in the field of epidemiology goes over your head... Clearly ... hence I asked ? .... now ... as you’ve highlighted my lack of knowledge ( which I’m pretty sure asking the question did!) can you explain further the methodology please... in layman’s terms? You don’t need to specifically study those visiting bars, the effect on the overall population of the measure introduced should give an indication of whether the measure is effective or not and the level of efficacy. Daily/weekly number of overall new cases compared with periods when the measure hadn’t been introduced yet would determine whether the measure is considered helpful or not So there are no other variables to be measured.... a decline is a success due to closing early, status quo or higher shows the control to be ineffective? Is that right? " Nobody said there are no other variables, of course there are and in a complex situation as is assessing the effect of a particular measure in the context of a pandemic a judgement call has to be made. But this particular thread is about the effect of closing time of public bars. Of course you knew this, but intellectual dishonesty is so tempting in discussions... some people mistake trying to be clever with actually being clever, again, whether deliberately or not | |||
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"It's either a safe environment or it's not... Surely" Schrodinger's cat. Both possibilities exist at the same time. | |||
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"It’s only flawed if you’re looking for a way round the guidelines or bleating about ‘losing my rights’ or some such idiotic notion. It’s a fine balance between economy, public health and freedom of movement .... shorter opening hours is an effort to meet the needs of three conflicting requirements. What’s not to understand? Your points! Previously teachers shouldn’t be back at school.... now 11pm is the correct control for closing bars to prevent/ reduce transmission! It’s good that you now seek to balance the economy, public health and freedom of movement. The very best we can expect from a teacher is to learn! I spend 4 hours 7-11in a bar with 300 people 3 of which are Covid positive, or I spend 4 hours (8-12)in a bar with 300 people 3 of which are Covid positive... statistically which would result in higher rates of transmission? " What you fail to understand with this example is that we are not talking about YOUR risk as an individual here. Or your individual capability of transmitting covid. But the likelihood of transmission in the whole of the community. The premise is that the total amount of time engaged in social interaction by the whole community is going to have an impact in the spread of the disease. You could go about it by limiting the maximum amount of time each person spends in a bar, but for practical reasons is a lot easier to set a cut off point in closing time. Of course there are health risks who affect people individually, eg, if you smoke or are exposed to asbestos there is a risk to your personal health. This doesn’t apply to a transmissible disease. And then, the mechanism of transmission is another factor. If I’m a risky swinger that engages in bareback sex, my risk of getting a sti may be high, but I’m not going to pass it to say my father in law by sitting with him having a chat over a cup of tea. Whereas I could transmit covid through the normal activity of talking to someone. Unless one is too stupid to comprehend this or too selfish to care about it, it’s a simple concept that one should assess individual risk plus the risk to the whole community. | |||
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"This only applies to bars in the Cap D'Agde naturist village, I haven't seen anything to suggest it's a nationwide rule (yet)." This is the virus forum therefore let’s not let the facts/truth get in the way of the blah blah blah. T | |||
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"It seems some people struggle to comprehend the complexities involved between fully locked down and fully open."  | |||
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"Limiting the opening hours reduces the time that people can be in potential contact with Covid. Pretty basic science I'd have thought..." It is but some people don' get that. However lets be honest the more people drink the less likley they are going to maintain social distancing so closing early may not be a bad idea. | |||
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