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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" People have suffered and continue to suffer in different ways. They are not comparable. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago? | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" When someone else loses there job it’s a Recession when you lose your own Job it’s a Depression ,we have said from the start on here Depression will be the biggest subject by the end of this year | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago?" Yes Lionel. Next question......  | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago? Yes Lionel. Next question...... "I've said in the past.Poverty has exploded since austerity yet people only seem arsed about it in relation to lockdown. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble" Yet they still vote Tory ...... it’s not the virus that is creating poverty it’s a decade of austerity. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble" No I haven't been through that, but we can undo all of that. And we can undo the things that have led to it. We can't undo dead. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble" 
People are so fucking heartless, if it’s not affecting me, it doesn’t exist. This is the Boris follower mindset.
But it does affect you , rising unemployment means more crime and your shiny little things will get stolen by frenzied drug addicts and you will get mugged by 15year old dealers in your street and be scared to go out at night, clutching your daily mail reading about the horrors you will become old and frail and scared | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble
People are so fucking heartless, if it’s not affecting me, it doesn’t exist. This is the Boris follower mindset.
But it does affect you , rising unemployment means more crime and your shiny little things will get stolen by frenzied drug addicts and you will get mugged by 15year old dealers in your street and be scared to go out at night, clutching your daily mail reading about the horrors you will become old and frail and scared "Agree poverty causes so many problems and God knows how bad this is going to be | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble Yet they still vote Tory ...... it’s not the virus that is creating poverty it’s a decade of austerity. " And somehow it only seems to matter now because pubs have some restrictions and it's a bit harder to get to Spain. Not because dealing with poverty, educational inequalities, health inequalities, etc, are worthwhile in and of themselves. People on Fab talk about virtue signalling. The virtue signalling has been rife since the virus started. "What about (anything other than the virus)? Doesn't that matter?" Yes it did, and it did before it inconvenienced you. And many of us cared, and worked on it, before it inconvenienced you. | |||
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"Well seems that for some they are going to deal with how they have voted over the years and i always asked my friends what the magic number is before they realize that something is horribly wrong in this country ?? 4 plus millions children living in either poverty or abject poverty ...record numbers of homeless children..record number homeless adults ..record number on waiting lists for housing ..record number of drs/nurses leaving the NHS..record lows in all emergency services...record numbers of teachers leaving ...and of course record levels of personal debt ( we now owe on cards/loans etc etc than we do for mortgages...nigh on perfect storm really and sorry forgot record numbers using food banks xx "It will be ok, Boris will mutter some inane Churchillian clichés interspersed with a bit of Latin and finish with getting Brexit done and people will say yes Boris .. Add in some whataboutery over Corbyn and Dianne Abbott and it'll be nirvana for everyone who went to Eton etc and work in hedge funds.. The rest is just collateral for those in power.. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble
People are so fucking heartless, if it’s not affecting me, it doesn’t exist. This is the Boris follower mindset.
But it does affect you , rising unemployment means more crime and your shiny little things will get stolen by frenzied drug addicts and you will get mugged by 15year old dealers in your street and be scared to go out at night, clutching your daily mail reading about the horrors you will become old and frail and scared "Always amazes me the way successive gmnts think the answer to that problem is tougher sentences. If you suggest the issue may be due to structural factors in society (poverty etc)you are branded a do gooder. | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery " Thank you for proving my point most succinctly. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble
People are so fucking heartless, if it’s not affecting me, it doesn’t exist. This is the Boris follower mindset.
But it does affect you , rising unemployment means more crime and your shiny little things will get stolen by frenzied drug addicts and you will get mugged by 15year old dealers in your street and be scared to go out at night, clutching your daily mail reading about the horrors you will become old and frail and scared
Always amazes me the way successive gmnts think the answer to that problem is tougher sentences.
If you suggest the issue may be due to structural factors in society (poverty etc)you are branded a do gooder."What? Blaming people and taking away opportunities, locking away their families, demonising their culture, doesn't make them upstanding successful citizens who want to contribute to the common good? This is my shocked face. | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery " Dear god ... beat them into submission then  . How about provide equal opportunities for all remove zero hours contracts invest in education to ensure that parents can parent, lower income kids see a way out and if you fall society can catch you with a decent healthcare and benefits system to avoid said 15 olds having no prospects or options. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble" Would you prefer to sleep rough or have your partner die from the virus? No-one gets that choice, you simply deal with the cards dealt to you. These things should NOT be compared. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago?" Exactly People seem to have forgotten about austerity with the bedroom tax that force 1000s to become homeless. But hey that didn't effect them no doubt  | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble Yet they still vote Tory ...... it’s not the virus that is creating poverty it’s a decade of austerity. And somehow it only seems to matter now because pubs have some restrictions and it's a bit harder to get to Spain. Not because dealing with poverty, educational inequalities, health inequalities, etc, are worthwhile in and of themselves. People on Fab talk about virtue signalling. The virtue signalling has been rife since the virus started. "What about (anything other than the virus)? Doesn't that matter?" Yes it did, and it did before it inconvenienced you. And many of us cared, and worked on it, before it inconvenienced you." | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery " Oh my fucking god - is that a new tory mantra, don't blame us blame the parents? | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery Dear god ... beat them into submission then . How about provide equal opportunities for all remove zero hours contracts invest in education to ensure that parents can parent, lower income kids see a way out and if you fall society can catch you with a decent healthcare and benefits system to avoid said 15 olds having no prospects or options. "Yeah I thought we were a bit past "beat it out of them" | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery Dear god ... beat them into submission then . How about provide equal opportunities for all remove zero hours contracts invest in education to ensure that parents can parent, lower income kids see a way out and if you fall society can catch you with a decent healthcare and benefits system to avoid said 15 olds having no prospects or options.
Yeah I thought we were a bit past "beat it out of them"
"It's incredible isn't it? Surestart and similar mechanisms (though not perfect), were shown to improve outcomes, reduce crime etc. But, no, we need to turn all that off. So let's go back to hitting them harder. | |||
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" " Surestart and similar mechanisms (though not perfect), were shown to improve outcomes, reduce crime etc. But, no, we need to turn all that off. So let's go back to hitting them harder. " Most of the sure start centers - that were vital to the poorest families and most in need of direction and support, you could argue.. Were shut down by the nasty Tory cuts. When the poorest need a leg up - cut them off - show them whats good for them chaps.... hm" That's nicks point. | |||
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"Well seems that for some they are going to deal with how they have voted over the years and i always asked my friends what the magic number is before they realize that something is horribly wrong in this country ?? 4 plus millions children living in either poverty or abject poverty ...record numbers of homeless children..record number homeless adults ..record number on waiting lists for housing ..record number of drs/nurses leaving the NHS..record lows in all emergency services...record numbers of teachers leaving ...and of course record levels of personal debt ( we now owe on cards/loans etc etc than we do for mortgages...nigh on perfect storm really and sorry forgot record numbers using food banks xx "but its them invaders in rubber boats its all there fault dont ya know .see heres a box of 50 cookies I can have 48 you have 1 and "they " can have one be carefull watch out "they" don't steal your cookie nom nom nom | |||
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" " Surestart and similar mechanisms (though not perfect), were shown to improve outcomes, reduce crime etc. But, no, we need to turn all that off. So let's go back to hitting them harder. " Most of the sure start centers - that were vital to the poorest families and most in need of direction and support, you could argue.. Were shut down by the nasty Tory cuts. When the poorest need a leg up - cut them off - show them whats good for them chaps.... hm That's nicks point. " He's nicked it off nick  | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery " | |||
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"They're not dead?" They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. | |||
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"For those who have said at least they are alive , unless you gone through being evicted and been homeless and slept rough you will never understand he actually hell it is , and so many people are one pay check from being i that sort of trouble" | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago? Yes Lionel. Next question......
I've said in the past.Poverty has exploded since austerity yet people only seem arsed about it in relation to lockdown."That’s not true... the guardian has run a pretty long campaign about the effects of austerity on the rising amount of homeless people. It has made highlight articles about people who have died on doorsteps. The guardian is also an absolute advocate of the face mask and lockdown situation. I get where you are coming from that people may jump on the bandwagon. However!! I’ve read so many times, when people question - why now? And the answer is always- things are changing rapidly. And that’s true! So it’s also fair to say that people’s opinions on things like homelessness and suicide are going to rapidly, as it comes closer to home. What a sad and sorry state of affairs we are in right now. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago? Yes Lionel. Next question......
I've said in the past.Poverty has exploded since austerity yet people only seem arsed about it in relation to lockdown.
That’s not true... the guardian has run a pretty long campaign about the effects of austerity on the rising amount of homeless people. It has made highlight articles about people who have died on doorsteps. The guardian is also an absolute advocate of the face mask and lockdown situation.
I get where you are coming from that people may jump on the bandwagon. However!! I’ve read so many times, when people question - why now? And the answer is always- things are changing rapidly. And that’s true! So it’s also fair to say that people’s opinions on things like homelessness and suicide are going to rapidly, as it comes closer to home.
What a sad and sorry state of affairs we are in right now."Opinions on homelessness and suicide are going to change rapidly, that should say! My horse, my horse for an edit button!!! | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery Dear god ... beat them into submission then . How about provide equal opportunities for all remove zero hours contracts invest in education to ensure that parents can parent, lower income kids see a way out and if you fall society can catch you with a decent healthcare and benefits system to avoid said 15 olds having no prospects or options.
Yeah I thought we were a bit past "beat it out of them"
It's incredible isn't it?
Surestart and similar mechanisms (though not perfect), were shown to improve outcomes, reduce crime etc.
But, no, we need to turn all that off. So let's go back to hitting them harder.
"Didnt they all get closed down? | |||
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"Every one is squabbling too much!! It all starts with parenting children properly. If parents can’t do that simple task. The government should take hold of the situation and bring back conscription!! People then won’t be scared of 15 year old drug dealers and crack heads making our lives a misery Dear god ... beat them into submission then . How about provide equal opportunities for all remove zero hours contracts invest in education to ensure that parents can parent, lower income kids see a way out and if you fall society can catch you with a decent healthcare and benefits system to avoid said 15 olds having no prospects or options.
Yeah I thought we were a bit past "beat it out of them"
It's incredible isn't it?
Surestart and similar mechanisms (though not perfect), were shown to improve outcomes, reduce crime etc.
But, no, we need to turn all that off. So let's go back to hitting them harder.
Didnt they all get closed down?"Yes - they did. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. " Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" Only 4 months away from Boris promised land of brexit. All problems will disappear and be replaced with prosperity and happiness  | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. " Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Only 4 months away from Boris promised land of brexit. All problems will disappear and be replaced with prosperity and happiness "I swear boris can’t even be bothered to get out of bed these days, let alone deal with anything as exciting as brexit!! | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast "Whereabouts are you? | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that." if it had been the other way round and we didn't lock down and more people got the virus and died instead the comment would presumably have been “well if we locked down they might have ended up in poverty and homeless so better they ended up dead” would the alternative have been less cold and more to your taste? people don’t like to think in extremes but we can all see the choices were lock down and poverty increases or don’t and death increases ... the choices are unfortunately that cold | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that." That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast "Fairly sure the army are already armed. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Did homelessness and unemployment begin 4 months ago? Yes Lionel. Next question......
I've said in the past.Poverty has exploded since austerity yet people only seem arsed about it in relation to lockdown.
That’s not true... the guardian has run a pretty long campaign about the effects of austerity on the rising amount of homeless people. It has made highlight articles about people who have died on doorsteps. The guardian is also an absolute advocate of the face mask and lockdown situation.
I get where you are coming from that people may jump on the bandwagon. However!! I’ve read so many times, when people question - why now? And the answer is always- things are changing rapidly. And that’s true! So it’s also fair to say that people’s opinions on things like homelessness and suicide are going to rapidly, as it comes closer to home.
What a sad and sorry state of affairs we are in right now.
Opinions on homelessness and suicide are going to change rapidly, that should say! My horse, my horse for an edit button!!! "More people will simply become aware of them as the consequences of the pandemic ravage them or ones they love. Prior to this crisis, their eyes were closed to such things. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. " Tbf most of them are escaping war,genocide or famine. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Only 4 months away from Boris promised land of brexit. All problems will disappear and be replaced with prosperity and happiness "Makes me want to break into song "somewhere over the  ..." | |||
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"I was " " quoting nics post and added to it - post become unreadable when they have tons of post attached, i simply was highlighting an excellent point ;p She is correct all this support has been shot to bits for the most in need. " She? | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead." So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Tbf most of them are escaping war,genocide or famine." Calais doesn’t have war, genocide and famine though. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast
Whereabouts are you?"Staffordshire near and brisbane Australia does it matter where I live | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that." Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast
Fairly sure the army are already armed.
"Nope, most of the time you keep the weapons away from them. Can't be trusted. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Illegal immigration is a whoooooole other subject that I would be happy to discuss!! But I do feel grateful that our system isn’t as draconian as France. I’m not being glib here- I’ve been sat on the terraces of Parisian cafes watching police, armed with guns, stroll past at arms length. Iv armed police at my hotel door so I can’t leave the uk needs to toughen the fuck up and stop the fuckers taking the piss out of the guideline set out to combat this virus if it needs force and arming the police or army it needs to be done swift and fast
Whereabouts are you?
Staffordshire near and brisbane Australia does it matter where I live "Jeesh, chill out will you. I was asking because where I live (Reading, UK) people are pretty much going about their daily business. So I’m wondering where things are so drastic. Was there any need to be so aggressive in your response? | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't." Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. " I think the last person to show a lack of understanding about mental health issues is swing!! As one of the most empathetic people on the forum and from what I understand, someone who does an awful lot of voluntary work to help people,I think she has more understanding that most. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. " No, that's not the point. The point is that if you've lost your job and your house you can get another job and another house. If you've lost your family due to covid-19 you won't get them back. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point " Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. No, that's not the point. The point is that if you've lost your job and your house you can get another job and another house. If you've lost your family due to covid-19 you won't get them back." I’ve lost a very dear friend to suicide. He had a house, a family and a job. I doubt he would have given two shits about Covid 19. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. " That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. No, that's not the point. The point is that if you've lost your job and your house you can get another job and another house. If you've lost your family due to covid-19 you won't get them back. I’ve lost a very dear friend to suicide. He had a house, a family and a job. I doubt he would have given two shits about Covid 19. " In the last year or so I have lost a few good friends of mine from work. I know exactly how it feels. You won't teach me. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. " And for your information I also read the Guardian and I don't think they have hypocritically advocated stopping the lockdown because it's worse than the virus. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. " I think the likes of the guardian were but certain other parts of the media were certainly not. The last 10 years has definitely seen a 'well it's their own fault'attitude to poverty (which I guess you can maybe link to an increased number of attacks on the homeless) After watching I Daniel Blake a tory mp sneered that it wasnt meant to be real. The likes of the guardian have been highlighting the cust of austerity but it's a bit rich for Tories to talk about poverty when they couldnt give a toss before. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. No, that's not the point. The point is that if you've lost your job and your house you can get another job and another house. If you've lost your family due to covid-19 you won't get them back. I’ve lost a very dear friend to suicide. He had a house, a family and a job. I doubt he would have given two shits about Covid 19. In the last year or so I have lost a few good friends of mine from work. I know exactly how it feels. You won't teach me." I’m not exactly sure what you mean here. I mean that in the kindest way possible. I just don’t know what you are trying to say. | |||
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No surprises that that's been another disaster, though at least your money helped them to earn. There'll be many more of those types of contracts dished out. They live by different rules. Prosperity is not a bad thing - taking it from many, to swell the greedy trougb snouts, is beyond acceptable to anyone with a moral backbone.
We're a very wealthy nation and we should not desert those most in need. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. I think the likes of the guardian were but certain other parts of the media were certainly not. The last 10 years has definitely seen a 'well it's their own fault'attitude to poverty (which I guess you can maybe link to an increased number of attacks on the homeless) After watching I Daniel Blake a tory mp sneered that it wasnt meant to be real. The likes of the guardian have been highlighting the cust of austerity but it's a bit rich for Tories to talk about poverty when they couldnt give a toss before. " Okay. Historically the Tory party has been about - every man for himself, and those that get behind us can eat shit. Do you agree with that? | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. I think the likes of the guardian were but certain other parts of the media were certainly not. The last 10 years has definitely seen a 'well it's their own fault'attitude to poverty (which I guess you can maybe link to an increased number of attacks on the homeless) After watching I Daniel Blake a tory mp sneered that it wasnt meant to be real. The likes of the guardian have been highlighting the cust of austerity but it's a bit rich for Tories to talk about poverty when they couldnt give a toss before. Okay. Historically the Tory party has been about - every man for himself, and those that get behind us can eat shit. Do you agree with that? " I think since Thatcher..what did she say..there is no such thing as society? | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. That is absolutely untrue - I read the guardian and they have been going on about food banks, rising homelessness. mental health issues connected to financial instability for years ... I don’t know which version of the press you choose to read, but I can tell you that the one I choose to read goes hard on this issue a LOT. I think the likes of the guardian were but certain other parts of the media were certainly not. The last 10 years has definitely seen a 'well it's their own fault'attitude to poverty (which I guess you can maybe link to an increased number of attacks on the homeless) After watching I Daniel Blake a tory mp sneered that it wasnt meant to be real. The likes of the guardian have been highlighting the cust of austerity but it's a bit rich for Tories to talk about poverty when they couldnt give a toss before. Okay. Historically the Tory party has been about - every man for himself, and those that get behind us can eat shit. Do you agree with that? I think since Thatcher..what did she say..there is no such thing as society?" Exactly | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. " Please don't condescend to me about mental health issues as if I don't understand them. We can mitigate economic destruction, as we are doing now. We can mitigate mental health issues, at least to a point. If we'd let the virus run rampant, we can't unkill people. We can't undo long term, potentially permanent morbidities. I'm not and have never argued for elimination of the virus to the expense of everything else. We live in a wealthy nation. We can do both with the political will. I'm doing my bit both to slow the spread and mitigate mental health issues in vulnerable people. | |||
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"“I think since Thatcher..what did she say..there is no such thing as society?“ did she really? genuine question as it seems to have the opposite ideals from her stance on poll tax being all about contribute to your community" Yep.An interview with womans own. I'm not sure the poll tax was about everyone contributing..it was massively unfair (hence the riots) | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. Please don't condescend to me about mental health issues as if I don't understand them. We can mitigate economic destruction, as we are doing now. We can mitigate mental health issues, at least to a point. If we'd let the virus run rampant, we can't unkill people. We can't undo long term, potentially permanent morbidities. I'm not and have never argued for elimination of the virus to the expense of everything else. We live in a wealthy nation. We can do both with the political will. I'm doing my bit both to slow the spread and mitigate mental health issues in vulnerable people. "
Hmm. And you saying “they’re not dead” explains all of the above how? Please and thank you. | |||
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"For those who claim to care about the economy, about poverty, about children's education - do something about it apart from whining about restrictions because of the pandemic. The voluntary sector is straining under the pressure. We - because yes, I bloody well do it myself - need you." You're right! I've been here for 15 years now, and I have never seen all these threads about, poverty, evictions, schooling or healthcare before! I wonder why it is all coming about now?  | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" Same old boring rant about lockdown. Unemployment and homelessness are nothing new, and they have been on the rise long before covid. Some people chose to highlight it now because they are not happy with lock down or post lock down restrictions; not that they cared about any of these issues before then. Unemployment and homelessness are reversible. Those who have died of covid and those who would potentially have died of it if we hadn't locked down, don't have the option to reverse death. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Tbf most of them are escaping war,genocide or famine." Escaping France but not sure there is war genocide or famine in France to escape from. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. Please don't condescend to me about mental health issues as if I don't understand them. We can mitigate economic destruction, as we are doing now. We can mitigate mental health issues, at least to a point. If we'd let the virus run rampant, we can't unkill people. We can't undo long term, potentially permanent morbidities. I'm not and have never argued for elimination of the virus to the expense of everything else. We live in a wealthy nation. We can do both with the political will. I'm doing my bit both to slow the spread and mitigate mental health issues in vulnerable people.
Hmm. And you saying “they’re not dead” explains all of the above how? Please and thank you. "I believe I just did. You are ever most welcome | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Same old boring rant about lockdown. Unemployment and homelessness are nothing new, and they have been on the rise long before covid. Some people chose to highlight it now because they are not happy with lock down or post lock down restrictions; not that they cared about any of these issues before then. Unemployment and homelessness are reversible. Those who have died of covid and those who would potentially have died of it if we hadn't locked down, don't have the option to reverse death."
Sick virtue signalling. What about literally anything else that I never cared about before. | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that " Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Tbf most of them are escaping war,genocide or famine. Escaping France but not sure there is war genocide or famine in France to escape from. " So we should stop anyone from coming here? | |||
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"For those who claim to care about the economy, about poverty, about children's education - do something about it apart from whining about restrictions because of the pandemic. The voluntary sector is straining under the pressure. We - because yes, I bloody well do it myself - need you. You're right! I've been here for 15 years now, and I have never seen all these threads about, poverty, evictions, schooling or healthcare before! I wonder why it is all coming about now? "I have also been here many years and been on and off the forums during that time. As such, I can’t particularly remember which threads I have specifically commented on. I would say that very recently I have been pretty much 100% posting on the.virus thread because it’s taken such a huge toll on my life. There isn’t a single aspect of my life that this situation hasn’t.had an effect on. I don’t recall seeing any other posts prior to Covid 19 that dealt with poverty, evictions, health care or schooling .. maybe if I had I would have commented on them. I don’t know. This whole situation is causing an immense amount of stress though, to people who were just going about their daily business. Suddenly they may have realised there is a whole world of trouble out there. I don’t bloody know. It doesn’t make their opinions on the situation invalid. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. That's nonsense, it's not a cold-hearted response, it's actually a much more empathetic response than you think. The virtue-signalling that _naswingdress rightly mentioned is much more cold-hearted because it's hollow. People didn't seem to give a f*** about homeless people, unemployment and hardship until covid-19 came and some of us were inconvenienced out of going to our local pub or for an entertaining night out. You can reverse poverty, you cannot bring back the dead. So there was no services or charities for the homeless before Covid 19? And the situation wasn’t made worse for people with suicidal thoughts post Covid 19? I don’t really understand your point Also, the point is that people had suicidal thoughts, and they were going through hardship and they were going to foodbanks to feed their loved ones before covid-19 but nobody seemed to care about those issues until some people lost their freedom to go out of the house and have a drink or meet people. " Correlation not causation. | |||
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"They're not dead? They might prefer they were. I’ve never seen such a gob smackingly cold response as that. Please explain how it's cold to prefer to have problems that we can fix than problems we can't. Because it shows a massive misunderstanding of that particular mental health issue.. oh! You lost your business and your home and your family! But you didn’t die of Covid! You aren’t dead! Suicide isn’t about not being dead. That’s literally the whole point. No, that's not the point. The point is that if you've lost your job and your house you can get another job and another house. If you've lost your family due to covid-19 you won't get them back. I’ve lost a very dear friend to suicide. He had a house, a family and a job. I doubt he would have given two shits about Covid 19. In the last year or so I have lost a few good friends of mine from work. I know exactly how it feels. You won't teach me." Actually grief is personal. One can only empathise. | |||
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"It's fine to highlight some of our nations short comings. We also have a hell of a lot provided too. I'm not by the way defending any policies... Just saying we have people by the 1000s risking life and limb to be a part of our society, often times illegally and certainly dangerously, so we can't be the worst. Tbf most of them are escaping war,genocide or famine. Escaping France but not sure there is war genocide or famine in France to escape from. So we should stop anyone from coming here?" No, we shouldn’t stop “anyone” from coming here. What we should do is stop potentially lethal voyages, by human traffickers, for illegal immigrants. | |||
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"For those who claim to care about the economy, about poverty, about children's education - do something about it apart from whining about restrictions because of the pandemic. The voluntary sector is straining under the pressure. We - because yes, I bloody well do it myself - need you. You're right! I've been here for 15 years now, and I have never seen all these threads about, poverty, evictions, schooling or healthcare before! I wonder why it is all coming about now?
I have also been here many years and been on and off the forums during that time. As such, I can’t particularly remember which threads I have specifically commented on. I would say that very recently I have been pretty much 100% posting on the.virus thread because it’s taken such a huge toll on my life. There isn’t a single aspect of my life that this situation hasn’t.had an effect on.
I don’t recall seeing any other posts prior to Covid 19 that dealt with poverty, evictions, health care or schooling .. maybe if I had I would have commented on them. I don’t know. This whole situation is causing an immense amount of stress though, to people who were just going about their daily business. Suddenly they may have realised there is a whole world of trouble out there. I don’t bloody know. It doesn’t make their opinions on the situation invalid."I never said it did, I'm just a bit dubious about 'SOME' of the posters reasons for highlighting things now, when they never have in the past. The situations mentioned have been happening for years and years, I support charities, but there are only so many I can support. | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality." i can asure that where i am from its the absolute outlier that is there not by choice (which is i wondered if it differs city to city) now when i say “choice” i am not disregarding the mental health and addiction issues or saying its a rational, sober, sane choice, but in terms of having the option of a bed that night or the street they genuinely are choosing the street ... my city doesn’t have a lack of homeless accomodation issue and its no longer secret hidden away skippers rough sleeping either its high street doorways , very public and prominent with footfall on purpose... they know in the city centre they can wake to the cash they need already in front of them (or maybe pre lockdown anyway) don’t disagree with you that its structural issues - in fact that was kind of my point ... the media only want to talk about homelessness though and the wider public i think believe its a roof over head issue which is so far from the truth | |||
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"For those who claim to care about the economy, about poverty, about children's education - do something about it apart from whining about restrictions because of the pandemic. The voluntary sector is straining under the pressure. We - because yes, I bloody well do it myself - need you. You're right! I've been here for 15 years now, and I have never seen all these threads about, poverty, evictions, schooling or healthcare before! I wonder why it is all coming about now? "Cos of the speed it is happening to a greater number. | |||
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"For those who claim to care about the economy, about poverty, about children's education - do something about it apart from whining about restrictions because of the pandemic. The voluntary sector is straining under the pressure. We - because yes, I bloody well do it myself - need you. You're right! I've been here for 15 years now, and I have never seen all these threads about, poverty, evictions, schooling or healthcare before! I wonder why it is all coming about now?
I have also been here many years and been on and off the forums during that time. As such, I can’t particularly remember which threads I have specifically commented on. I would say that very recently I have been pretty much 100% posting on the.virus thread because it’s taken such a huge toll on my life. There isn’t a single aspect of my life that this situation hasn’t.had an effect on.
I don’t recall seeing any other posts prior to Covid 19 that dealt with poverty, evictions, health care or schooling .. maybe if I had I would have commented on them. I don’t know. This whole situation is causing an immense amount of stress though, to people who were just going about their daily business. Suddenly they may have realised there is a whole world of trouble out there. I don’t bloody know. It doesn’t make their opinions on the situation invalid.
I never said it did, I'm just a bit dubious about 'SOME' of the posters reasons for highlighting things now, when they never have in the past. The situations mentioned have been happening for years and years, I support charities, but there are only so many I can support. "Okay - that’s a fair response and I thank you for it. It’s a tense time for all of us - I hope I didn’t come across as aggressive - I’m more bloody depressed about, it if anything! Dx | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality." And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). " I would be interested to know if there are figures for Covid 19 infections, hospitalisation and deaths for homeless people actually. They must be very much at risk- they live off cash, have extremely unhealthy lifestyles and don’t have the opportunity to follow all the public health rules. The government have a rough idea of how many people are on the streets- they must have a good idea who has picked up this horrible bug as well? | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). I would be interested to know if there are figures for Covid 19 infections, hospitalisation and deaths for homeless people actually. They must be very much at risk- they live off cash, have extremely unhealthy lifestyles and don’t have the opportunity to follow all the public health rules. The government have a rough idea of how many people are on the streets- they must have a good idea who has picked up this horrible bug as well?" I thought that but they are quite isolated really aremt They? They have v little contact with people | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. i can asure that where i am from its the absolute outlier that is there not by choice (which is i wondered if it differs city to city) now when i say “choice” i am not disregarding the mental health and addiction issues or saying its a rational, sober, sane choice, but in terms of having the option of a bed that night or the street they genuinely are choosing the street ... my city doesn’t have a lack of homeless accomodation issue and its no longer secret hidden away skippers rough sleeping either its high street doorways , very public and prominent with footfall on purpose... they know in the city centre they can wake to the cash they need already in front of them (or maybe pre lockdown anyway) don’t disagree with you that its structural issues - in fact that was kind of my point ... the media only want to talk about homelessness though and the wider public i think believe its a roof over head issue which is so far from the truth " I've heard The argument that shelters are not the safest place in the world in terms of your stuff getting knicked. I can imagine if you are young and vulnerable, you may be a bit wary. It's one of my biggest fears as it probably doesnt take much.. lose your job.. lose your house..have few friends etc. And I do think over the last few years there has been a definite shift from sympathy to..they are all professional beggars. The sign of a humane society is how it treats its most vulnerable members and there are some horror stories out there. | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. i can asure that where i am from its the absolute outlier that is there not by choice (which is i wondered if it differs city to city) now when i say “choice” i am not disregarding the mental health and addiction issues or saying its a rational, sober, sane choice, but in terms of having the option of a bed that night or the street they genuinely are choosing the street ... my city doesn’t have a lack of homeless accomodation issue and its no longer secret hidden away skippers rough sleeping either its high street doorways , very public and prominent with footfall on purpose... they know in the city centre they can wake to the cash they need already in front of them (or maybe pre lockdown anyway) don’t disagree with you that its structural issues - in fact that was kind of my point ... the media only want to talk about homelessness though and the wider public i think believe its a roof over head issue which is so far from the truth I've heard The argument that shelters are not the safest place in the world in terms of your stuff getting knicked. I can imagine if you are young and vulnerable, you may be a bit wary. It's one of my biggest fears as it probably doesnt take much.. lose your job.. lose your house..have few friends etc. And I do think over the last few years there has been a definite shift from sympathy to..they are all professional beggars. The sign of a humane society is how it treats its most vulnerable members and there are some horror stories out there." Lionel.. not everyone wants to be rescued ... | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. i can asure that where i am from its the absolute outlier that is there not by choice (which is i wondered if it differs city to city) now when i say “choice” i am not disregarding the mental health and addiction issues or saying its a rational, sober, sane choice, but in terms of having the option of a bed that night or the street they genuinely are choosing the street ... my city doesn’t have a lack of homeless accomodation issue and its no longer secret hidden away skippers rough sleeping either its high street doorways , very public and prominent with footfall on purpose... they know in the city centre they can wake to the cash they need already in front of them (or maybe pre lockdown anyway) don’t disagree with you that its structural issues - in fact that was kind of my point ... the media only want to talk about homelessness though and the wider public i think believe its a roof over head issue which is so far from the truth I've heard The argument that shelters are not the safest place in the world in terms of your stuff getting knicked. I can imagine if you are young and vulnerable, you may be a bit wary. It's one of my biggest fears as it probably doesnt take much.. lose your job.. lose your house..have few friends etc. And I do think over the last few years there has been a definite shift from sympathy to..they are all professional beggars. The sign of a humane society is how it treats its most vulnerable members and there are some horror stories out there. Lionel.. not everyone wants to be rescued ..." Not everyone should have to be. | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). I would be interested to know if there are figures for Covid 19 infections, hospitalisation and deaths for homeless people actually. They must be very much at risk- they live off cash, have extremely unhealthy lifestyles and don’t have the opportunity to follow all the public health rules. The government have a rough idea of how many people are on the streets- they must have a good idea who has picked up this horrible bug as well? I thought that but they are quite isolated really aremt They? They have v little contact with people " You couldn’t be more wrong- the network these people have could actually enviable to some- Of course they make friends with other people in similar situations. In addition to that they have huge support though churches, council programs, soup kitchens, charities, even veterinarian programs. I’m not saying it’s not awful to be homeless- 100% I wouldn’t like to be in that position. But to say that they don’t have much human contact is ridiculous. | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). I would be interested to know if there are figures for Covid 19 infections, hospitalisation and deaths for homeless people actually. They must be very much at risk- they live off cash, have extremely unhealthy lifestyles and don’t have the opportunity to follow all the public health rules. The government have a rough idea of how many people are on the streets- they must have a good idea who has picked up this horrible bug as well? I thought that but they are quite isolated really aremt They? They have v little contact with people You couldn’t be more wrong- the network these people have could actually enviable to some- Of course they make friends with other people in similar situations. In addition to that they have huge support though churches, council programs, soup kitchens, charities, even veterinarian programs. I’m not saying it’s not awful to be homeless- 100% I wouldn’t like to be in that position. But to say that they don’t have much human contact is ridiculous." I asked the same question a while ago cos I thought they would be hardest hit..and someone came back with that ? You tend to see them in small groups up here..never loads of them | |||
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"im not sure if homelessness differs from city to city? not in terms of number but more in terms of reasoning i can assure you from close to first hand experience (i lived with someone who worked for 3rd sector in a street team engaging with and advocating for them for years) where i live most of these people are on the street by choice and are rough sleeping and begging despite having supported accommodation available to them. they do this because the more visible they are they are more likely to make what they need for their fix where i live we don't have a homelessness problem, we have mental health and addiction problems where homelessness is a symptom mental health agencies won link in til they sort their addictions, addiction agencies wont link in because its a mental health problem, they get a temporary flat and right back out on the street and so it continues i also understand that those are also issues linked with poverty and are still things needing huge investment from the government to help tackle but the media would have you believe all thats needed is a few more social houses and buying them a sandwich/ donating a jacket ... it is so much more complicated than that Whilst some of them may be bragging it I'm.not sure that most of them.are sleeping on the streets through choice. I think what is not up for debate is that homelessness has massively increased in the last 10 years or so. Of course a lot of them ,there are issues around drink and drugs but the root cause is structural issues around poverty,unemployment and inequality. And abuse. Hobsons' choice - become homeless to escape abuse (which comes in many forms). I would be interested to know if there are figures for Covid 19 infections, hospitalisation and deaths for homeless people actually. They must be very much at risk- they live off cash, have extremely unhealthy lifestyles and don’t have the opportunity to follow all the public health rules. The government have a rough idea of how many people are on the streets- they must have a good idea who has picked up this horrible bug as well? I thought that but they are quite isolated really aremt They? They have v little contact with people You couldn’t be more wrong- the network these people have could actually enviable to some- Of course they make friends with other people in similar situations. In addition to that they have huge support though churches, council programs, soup kitchens, charities, even veterinarian programs. I’m not saying it’s not awful to be homeless- 100% I wouldn’t like to be in that position. But to say that they don’t have much human contact is ridiculous. I asked the same question a while ago cos I thought they would be hardest hit..and someone came back with that ? You tend to see them in small groups up here..never loads of them " Well I can’t speak for the homeless in Liverpool.. I can just say what I see with my own two eyes and local knowledge down here  | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. " and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night | |||
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"As tough as it gets, it's vital that we don't succumb any further to the divide and conquer tactics employed since 2010. The people against the disabled, other unfortunates, those who hadn't had their pension benefits trashed in a race to the bottom, etc. Most people aren't doing well and things have been skewed against us, latterly with this awful virus and official 'management' of it. I've not read the article but I am concerned that with an election so very far away in the future, that even more morally repugnant measures will be enforced and implemented, without much care for the well-being of those who matter more than the public servants who are here to serve our needs. A few people with connections to those in power and other very wealthy people have and will continue to do very nicely, whilst millions suffer. Gove and Cummings were highlighted again today, with their contacts getting contracts where there was no tendering, to help OFQAL manage A levels and GCSE issues since June. No surprises that that's been another disaster, though at least your money helped them to earn. There'll be many more of those types of contracts dished out. They live by different rules. Prosperity is not a bad thing - taking it from many, to swell the greedy trougb snouts, is beyond acceptable to anyone with a moral backbone.
We're a very wealthy nation and we should not desert those most in need. " | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night "If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in. But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing. As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there. | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there."the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing "If you are in the grip of smack you are not in the best place to make rational decisions tbf. | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing "Hang on The "hotels" are not the kind of place you would choose to stay in. They are B&B without any breakfast and often full of substance abusers who would be banging on your door all night to ask for a fag or alcohol. Believe me if you found yourself in that position you really need strength of character...otherwise it's a slippery slope. It's certainly not the picture some would paint on here. | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing
Hang on
The "hotels" are not the kind of place you would choose to stay in.
They are B&B without any breakfast and often full of substance abusers who would be banging on your door all night to ask for a fag or alcohol.
Believe me if you found yourself in that position you really need strength of character...otherwise it's a slippery slope.
It's certainly not the picture some would paint on here."i spent 6 years living with someone who’s job was to engage with these people on the street, get them to present as homeless at the appropriate agencies, advocate for them if necessary, organise them temporary shelter if they would not be provided with something that night and would have ended up back on the street ... i can assure you that while it might not be the hilton, if you are not already abusing then it is not as you describe, and if you are abusing its because these are the only places that will take you in all honesty she started that role with the same rose tinted glasses you have on and full of enthusiasm that she could help everyone, eventually it wore her down when she discovered 90% of them were only interested in a clean sleeping bag and fresh set of “tools” from her ... to the point where when it was the occasional situation as you describe where someone who was “clean” (substance not hygiene) with the right help could actually avoid getting into that spiral and she always told me about these cases because you could see when she could help them it gave her a good lift again... maybe someone fleeing violence for example, they would go straight into temporary flats where possible , usually with extra funding for all the furnishing and some new clothes ... if somewhere wasn’t ready that quick they would get a proper hotel (albeit not 5 star) if you read my earlier posts you will see i have already said i am not claiming it is those other homeless peoples faults ... they have incredibly complex mental health and addiction needs that are not being met and therefore homelessness is the result for them as realistically they couldn't even hold down a tenancy if they tried my whole entire point is they are being failed way before their housing issue and the reason they are rough sleeping is nothing to do with the availability or quality of accommodation available but again thats too complex for the media and writing stories about drug addicts doesn’t sit well with a reader when they are trying to sell papers so they just simplify it so that half the country are posting on their social media “open the empty council buildings this is a disgrace give them a roof over their head” ... tip of the iceberg karen  | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" Given the choice, would you rather be unemployed or dead? | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Given the choice, would you rather be unemployed or dead?" Apparently this is a heartless question | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing
Hang on
The "hotels" are not the kind of place you would choose to stay in.
They are B&B without any breakfast and often full of substance abusers who would be banging on your door all night to ask for a fag or alcohol.
Believe me if you found yourself in that position you really need strength of character...otherwise it's a slippery slope.
It's certainly not the picture some would paint on here.
i spent 6 years living with someone who’s job was to engage with these people on the street, get them to present as homeless at the appropriate agencies, advocate for them if necessary, organise them temporary shelter if they would not be provided with something that night and would have ended up back on the street ... i can assure you that while it might not be the hilton, if you are not already abusing then it is not as you describe, and if you are abusing its because these are the only places that will take you
in all honesty she started that role with the same rose tinted glasses you have on and full of enthusiasm that she could help everyone, eventually it wore her down when she discovered 90% of them were only interested in a clean sleeping bag and fresh set of “tools” from her ... to the point where when it was the occasional situation as you describe where someone who was “clean” (substance not hygiene) with the right help could actually avoid getting into that spiral and she always told me about these cases because you could see when she could help them it gave her a good lift again... maybe someone fleeing violence for example, they would go straight into temporary flats where possible , usually with extra funding for all the furnishing and some new clothes ... if somewhere wasn’t ready that quick they would get a proper hotel (albeit not 5 star)
if you read my earlier posts you will see i have already said i am not claiming it is those other homeless peoples faults ... they have incredibly complex mental health and addiction needs that are not being met and therefore homelessness is the result for them as realistically they couldn't even hold down a tenancy if they tried
my whole entire point is they are being failed way before their housing issue and the reason they are rough sleeping is nothing to do with the availability or quality of accommodation available
but again thats too complex for the media and writing stories about drug addicts doesn’t sit well with a reader when they are trying to sell papers so they just simplify it so that half the country are posting on their social media “open the empty council buildings this is a disgrace give them a roof over their head” ... tip of the iceberg karen "There was a programme on a while ago about young people in Portsmouth who had left/been booted out of their parents home. Most of them were sofa surfing /sleeping in broom cupboards etc so they were not classed as living rough and as most of them were not 18 I dont think they could get benefits. Imagine how many people like that there are in a huge city like London? It is a complex situation but until we get a gmnt who will actually do something to address the chasm between the rich and the poor in this country,the situation will not change. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus" OK. Would you like me to do that here, or via a DM? | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. " They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. " Well I am not sure that there is enough wealth to go around but I do wonder if some people with a sense of entitlement are happy to sit on their fat arses and take their slice of the cake but give back nothing in return ... | |||
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"Well I am not sure that there is enough wealth to go around but I do wonder if some people with a sense of entitlement are happy to sit on their fat arses and take their slice of the cake but give back nothing in return ..." while i an far from a socialist, i think it would be more than fair to say that the behaviour you describe is happening at both ends of the spectrum with the people at the top holding a much bigger wedge of that cake | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. Well I am not sure that there is enough wealth to go around but I do wonder if some people with a sense of entitlement are happy to sit on their fat arses and take their slice of the cake but give back nothing in return ..." Sure. So we figure that out. With an emphasis on reducing suffering not stuffing wealthy pockets some more. | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. " Facts don't give a toss if they make you sad. | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. Well I am not sure that there is enough wealth to go around but I do wonder if some people with a sense of entitlement are happy to sit on their fat arses and take their slice of the cake but give back nothing in return ..." What slice of cake exactly? | |||
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"The Guardian is full of doom and gloom I am afraid.. It never looks on the bright side of life.. They are facts. Whether they are too "gloomy" or not for you is irrelevant. Maybe just read the Beano. That way you won't be upset by how crap it is for a significant number of people in this extremely wealth country. Well I am not sure that there is enough wealth to go around but I do wonder if some people with a sense of entitlement are happy to sit on their fat arses and take their slice of the cake but give back nothing in return ..." What? Like the people who inherited seats in the Lords, or the friends of ministers and aides who take large slices of cake and don't deliver what they're being paid for? £500m spunked on non-existant ppe could have helped a lot of homeless people. No, there's not enough money to go around if it's all hidden in brown envelopes. | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing
Hang on
The "hotels" are not the kind of place you would choose to stay in.
They are B&B without any breakfast and often full of substance abusers who would be banging on your door all night to ask for a fag or alcohol.
Believe me if you found yourself in that position you really need strength of character...otherwise it's a slippery slope.
It's certainly not the picture some would paint on here.
i spent 6 years living with someone who’s job was to engage with these people on the street, get them to present as homeless at the appropriate agencies, advocate for them if necessary, organise them temporary shelter if they would not be provided with something that night and would have ended up back on the street ... i can assure you that while it might not be the hilton, if you are not already abusing then it is not as you describe, and if you are abusing its because these are the only places that will take you
in all honesty she started that role with the same rose tinted glasses you have on and full of enthusiasm that she could help everyone, eventually it wore her down when she discovered 90% of them were only interested in a clean sleeping bag and fresh set of “tools” from her ... to the point where when it was the occasional situation as you describe where someone who was “clean” (substance not hygiene) with the right help could actually avoid getting into that spiral and she always told me about these cases because you could see when she could help them it gave her a good lift again... maybe someone fleeing violence for example, they would go straight into temporary flats where possible , usually with extra funding for all the furnishing and some new clothes ... if somewhere wasn’t ready that quick they would get a proper hotel (albeit not 5 star)
if you read my earlier posts you will see i have already said i am not claiming it is those other homeless peoples faults ... they have incredibly complex mental health and addiction needs that are not being met and therefore homelessness is the result for them as realistically they couldn't even hold down a tenancy if they tried
my whole entire point is they are being failed way before their housing issue and the reason they are rough sleeping is nothing to do with the availability or quality of accommodation available
but again thats too complex for the media and writing stories about drug addicts doesn’t sit well with a reader when they are trying to sell papers so they just simplify it so that half the country are posting on their social media “open the empty council buildings this is a disgrace give them a roof over their head” ... tip of the iceberg karen "Hey I dont know if your signing off of that was your name or a quip at me as in fb karen. But you speak of being a third party in your knowledge of this. But I'm speaking in first hand knowledge of this and believe me there are people who will find themselves in the homeless situation in the coming months who have never taken any illegal substances...but as I said further up they will need a bloody strong sense of character to get through it. I tried to message you but could not get through. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Given the choice, would you rather be unemployed or dead?" Speaking as someone who was made unemployed by the lockdown, who volunteered 500 hours co-ordinating a project that delivered over 2.5k faceshields to the NHS and care sector, only to be arbitrarily excluded from financial support after Rishi’s grand speech about no one being left behind, no one forgotten..... I grapple with that question every day. | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Given the choice, would you rather be unemployed or dead? Speaking as someone who was made unemployed by the lockdown, who volunteered 500 hours co-ordinating a project that delivered over 2.5k faceshields to the NHS and care sector, only to be arbitrarily excluded from financial support after Rishi’s grand speech about no one being left behind, no one forgotten..... I grapple with that question every day." Did they give you a reason or was it because you didnt have a tory advisor on the board? | |||
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"Read the story about manchester renters and the massive increase in unemployment and homelessness expected when the eviction ban ends, then tell me that the lockdown is not worse than the virus Given the choice, would you rather be unemployed or dead? Speaking as someone who was made unemployed by the lockdown, who volunteered 500 hours co-ordinating a project that delivered over 2.5k faceshields to the NHS and care sector, only to be arbitrarily excluded from financial support after Rishi’s grand speech about no one being left behind, no one forgotten..... I grapple with that question every day. Did they give you a reason or was it because you didnt have a tory advisor on the board?" The reason I don’t get financial support is because I was self employed before the lockdown but three years ago I worked for an employer.... approximately 3million people self employed people have been excluded for similar reasons that make absolutely no sense. But yea if I’d donated £60k to the Tory party instead of donating £60k worth of PPE to the NHS I would have got £100million for PPE and I wouldn’t even have had to supply any usable PPE! Which leads me to another question I have to grapple with; would I rather live a life governed by crooks or would I rather be dead. | |||
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"These "temporary supported housing " that is being mentioned as available to the homeless... then saying saying they dont want the supported housing. Have a thought or two..because if they were homeless and not taking drugs...there is every chance they will once they get into the "supported housing" hellholes that councils fund. and if you havent lost your job yet to be on benefits they will charge you through the nose for it by the night
If you could pay for accommodation for yourself....yeah it would be far cheaper to pick a hotel to stay in.
But most are not in that position when they have lost every thing.
As I said they are hellholes that lead to substance abuse, so I can quite see why they dont want to stay there.
the council will often out these people into a hotel for a few days instead until they get them a temporary flat
i am talking about people choosing not to stay in the “hell holes” because they are already substance abusing
Hang on
The "hotels" are not the kind of place you would choose to stay in.
They are B&B without any breakfast and often full of substance abusers who would be banging on your door all night to ask for a fag or alcohol.
Believe me if you found yourself in that position you really need strength of character...otherwise it's a slippery slope.
It's certainly not the picture some would paint on here.
i spent 6 years living with someone who’s job was to engage with these people on the street, get them to present as homeless at the appropriate agencies, advocate for them if necessary, organise them temporary shelter if they would not be provided with something that night and would have ended up back on the street ... i can assure you that while it might not be the hilton, if you are not already abusing then it is not as you describe, and if you are abusing its because these are the only places that will take you
in all honesty she started that role with the same rose tinted glasses you have on and full of enthusiasm that she could help everyone, eventually it wore her down when she discovered 90% of them were only interested in a clean sleeping bag and fresh set of “tools” from her ... to the point where when it was the occasional situation as you describe where someone who was “clean” (substance not hygiene) with the right help could actually avoid getting into that spiral and she always told me about these cases because you could see when she could help them it gave her a good lift again... maybe someone fleeing violence for example, they would go straight into temporary flats where possible , usually with extra funding for all the furnishing and some new clothes ... if somewhere wasn’t ready that quick they would get a proper hotel (albeit not 5 star)
if you read my earlier posts you will see i have already said i am not claiming it is those other homeless peoples faults ... they have incredibly complex mental health and addiction needs that are not being met and therefore homelessness is the result for them as realistically they couldn't even hold down a tenancy if they tried
my whole entire point is they are being failed way before their housing issue and the reason they are rough sleeping is nothing to do with the availability or quality of accommodation available
but again thats too complex for the media and writing stories about drug addicts doesn’t sit well with a reader when they are trying to sell papers so they just simplify it so that half the country are posting on their social media “open the empty council buildings this is a disgrace give them a roof over their head” ... tip of the iceberg karen
Hey I dont know if your signing off of that was your name or a quip at me as in fb karen.
But you speak of being a third party in your knowledge of this. But I'm speaking in first hand knowledge of this and believe me there are people who will find themselves in the homeless situation in the coming months who have never taken any illegal substances...but as I said further up they will need a bloody strong sense of character to get through it.
I tried to message you but could not get through."sorry was more fb karen = general public than meaning you | |||
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"The lockdown is not worse than the virus. See, easy. Not hard to say at all." Yes. The lockdown - not that we've had a lockdown, we've had restrictions - is not worse than the virus. The restrictions have not been worse than the virus. | |||
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"The lockdown is not worse than the virus. See, easy. Not hard to say at all. Yes. The lockdown - not that we've had a lockdown, we've had restrictions - is not worse than the virus. The restrictions have not been worse than the virus." Everybody's experience with having thd virus is different. The lockdown for me was worse than having the virus. My life was put on hold for 2 month with the lockdown. I recovered from the virus in 3 weeks. | |||
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"The lockdown is not worse than the virus. See, easy. Not hard to say at all. Yes. The lockdown - not that we've had a lockdown, we've had restrictions - is not worse than the virus. The restrictions have not been worse than the virus. Everybody's experience with having thd virus is different. The lockdown for me was worse than having the virus. My life was put on hold for 2 month with the lockdown. I recovered from the virus in 3 weeks." everyone goes through hard times...and we didn't had lockdown att all...see all those people in Spain Portugal France not allowed to go to the street just shopping and wear masks on street and public places or even worst I have family who lived on a city and it was proper lockdown not even allowed to go shop...had to rely on the cops to bring food or usufull things on a daily basis...we had it pretty easy...just put the mask and follow all the rules to protect us and the others... | |||
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"The lockdown is not worse than the virus. See, easy. Not hard to say at all. Yes. The lockdown - not that we've had a lockdown, we've had restrictions - is not worse than the virus. The restrictions have not been worse than the virus. Everybody's experience with having thd virus is different. The lockdown for me was worse than having the virus. My life was put on hold for 2 month with the lockdown. I recovered from the virus in 3 weeks.everyone goes through hard times...and we didn't had lockdown att all...see all those people in Spain Portugal France not allowed to go to the street just shopping and wear masks on street and public places or even worst I have family who lived on a city and it was proper lockdown not even allowed to go shop...had to rely on the cops to bring food or usufull things on a daily basis...we had it pretty easy...just put the mask and follow all the rules to protect us and the others... "Addressing me ? | |||
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"No mate I'm talking generally..for us all be safe .." Fair enough | |||
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