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"And they are more attractive than us, and they are happier than us, and they invented Ikea, and they have better weather, and did any one ever book a British Massage. " 
I'm moving to Sweden | |||
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"Didn’t the OP not get the memo. We stopped comparing ourselves to other countries when we overtook them months ago." Italy was horrifying/ outrageous/ incompetent at 1000 deaths in February/ March. The UK is world beating don't look at other countries oh look a dinghy | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?" This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? | |||
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"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours. Yet Sweden did not lockdown. " **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. They assumed that by carrying on, and not going into Lockdown like other European countries did, that not locking down will save their economy - but it didn't. Instead they have the highest death rate in Scandinavia and their economy is in trouble on top of that. So nothing gained for Sweden, - if anything they suffered a *double* loss. Regarding the public health issue of not locking down this is what their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had to say: "If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” And with regards to their economy: Their Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU. | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. " Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders. Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse. | |||
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"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours. Yet Sweden did not lockdown. **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. They assumed that by carrying on, and not going into Lockdown like other European countries did, that not locking down will save their economy - but it didn't. Instead they have the highest death rate in Scandinavia and their economy is in trouble on top of that. So nothing gained for Sweden, - if anything they suffered a *double* loss. Regarding the public health issue of not locking down this is what their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had to say: "If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” And with regards to their economy: Their Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU. And ours has just slumped by 20.4% with the worst recession in UK history on the way never mind since the war. " | |||
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"So what? We did. Suck it up buttercup. "  | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?" It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!  | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason! "Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause. | |||
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"Swedes follow the rules, Brits break them which does not help." Not so sure. We've met swedish couples on holiday before covid I hasten to add and they are as fed up of their country's government as we are. As a general rule we all grumble about our government LOL. | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."Wow - talk about proving the point! | |||
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"Swedes follow the rules, Brits break them which does not help. Not so sure. We've met swedish couples on holiday before covid I hasten to add and they are as fed up of their country's government as we are. As a general rule we all grumble about our government LOL." p.s. It's probably why all politicians ignore us because we are all grumbling about them all the time no matter what they do, except when it comes to election time of course. | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."I'm following the data. Shrug. | |||
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" Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause." I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now. If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. " Nor did they crash the economy that will cause thousands more deaths. And if anyone cares to remember 'lockdown' was only to stop the NHS being overwhelmed not to try and stop a virus (which is actually impossible). | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. Nor did they crash the economy that will cause thousands more deaths. And if anyone cares to remember 'lockdown' was only to stop the NHS being overwhelmed not to try and stop a virus (which is actually impossible). " Smallpox would like a word with you. | |||
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"I'm not sure some people get it. I'm not supporting Lockdown FC. It's not a football team or a political allegiance. I'm supporting putting an end to this thing. Living without fear. Not by waving our hands, accepting mass death and disability, and saying it'll all be fine. By everyone chipping in and slowing the spread. Us all protecting each other. This isn't politics. It's basic human decency." "Chipping in"? That's what Bill Gates wants, isn't it? MICROCHIPS IN MY BLOOD! INHALED VIA MASKS! YOU'RE ALL IN ON IT! WAAAA! Etc.  | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders. Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse." **”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”** ——————————- Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us. And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world) And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases. You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....” Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take. But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. | |||
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"So what? We did. Suck it up buttercup. " how can you say that when millions of lives are so negatively impacted by a pointless lockdown: and not just impacted now but will be for years to come. | |||
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"So what? We did. Suck it up buttercup. how can you say that when millions of lives are so negatively impacted by a pointless lockdown: and not just impacted now but will be for years to come. " So the harm of the virus is fake and the harm of lockdown is real? | |||
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"So what? We did. Suck it up buttercup. how can you say that when millions of lives are so negatively impacted by a pointless lockdown: and not just impacted now but will be for years to come. So the harm of the virus is fake and the harm of lockdown is real?" the harm of lock down is bigger and more harsh with a longer negative impact than the virus | |||
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"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? " you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown.  | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders. Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse. **”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”** ——————————- Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us. And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world) And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases. You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....” Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take. But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. " your explanation about Sweden is actually very wrong their economy is facing its worst crises since World War Two due to world issues not there’s and actually the economy is due to shrink less than most. They work on somthing called a hit rate ( you will need to google ) which infact yes means they saw a larger climb in infections and death rates than others but actually they are now pretty much at the same level as those that went into lockdown and are expected to see a slower and lower infection rate over the next 6 months than most as their younger more resilinant generations have already been infected therefore at less risk of now passing it on. Read science not the daily mail. | |||
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"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. "that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. | |||
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" Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause. I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now. If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was." to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost. | |||
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" Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause. I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now. If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost. " Did you just say that a million deaths would be acceptable? You what now | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better " You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you?" compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once. | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once. " Look up the word disproportionate and try again. | |||
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" Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause. I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now. If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost. Did you just say that a million deaths would be acceptable? You what now" that is 1.5% of this population of which at least .5% would have died from other causes over the next 6-12 months ( from their time of death ). Lockdown is expected to be directly responsible for circa 50k deaths from missed appointments, missed operations, and continued decline in people’s mental health ( particularly those aged over 70 ) | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once. Look up the word disproportionate and try again." I think maybe you need to go and do some research and not just read newspaper articles | |||
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"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours. Yet Sweden did not lockdown. " But we got boris and he got brexit done  | |||
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"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours. Yet Sweden did not lockdown. But we got boris and he got brexit done "this did make me laugh I have to say i give you a virtual cheers with this cold beer I have just opened | |||
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"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed." Apparently a million deaths is an acceptable price to pay to save 50k who might die this year of other causes. | |||
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"So. Let me get my "facts" straight. A million Covid deaths are acceptable. I don't care about key workers. London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers. Is that right?" A million deaths yes as people will Now die and suffer from Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance. Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country | |||
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"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. "You can always look at the figures for example Basil who didnt. | |||
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"So. Let me get my "facts" straight. A million Covid deaths are acceptable. I don't care about key workers. London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers. Is that right? A million deaths yes as people will Now die and suffer from Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance. Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country " was no reason to close pubs, schools, shops or anything like that at all offer support and advice to those that fitted into the at risk catogaries | |||
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"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. You can always look at the figures for example Basil who didnt."even so there is no science or eveidence to support that we would be the same worse or better than them over a 12 month period | |||
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"So. Let me get my "facts" straight. A million Covid deaths are acceptable. I don't care about key workers. London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers. Is that right? A million deaths yes as people will Now die and suffer from Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance. Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country " It’s because of the lack of test and trace, because of the lack of nhs funding, because of the crap social care system that we had to lockdown. | |||
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"And they are more attractive than us, and they are happier than us, and they invented Ikea, and they have better weather, and did any one ever book a British Massage. " Love this | |||
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"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed." is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you | |||
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"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you " May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients. | |||
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"So. Let me get my "facts" straight. A million Covid deaths are acceptable. I don't care about key workers. London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers. Is that right? A million deaths yes as people will Now die and suffer from Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance. Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country It’s because of the lack of test and trace, because of the lack of nhs funding, because of the crap social care system that we had to lockdown." to be fair I can’t argue with you there what so ever and do believe money should have been thrown at all If that straight away to get it in a better place. But also let’s remember we are one of the only countries where it is pretty much free unless your a tax payer | |||
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"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients." I’m not saying they didn’t what I’m saying is they was closed to people who already had other medical problems or needed them diagnosed but was turned away and Covid took priority thus leaving this others to suffer and in Many cases die. So it was give or take one way or the other but Covid was the winner and every family with a member who had other issues was basically told to go fuck themselfs | |||
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"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients. I’m not saying they didn’t what I’m saying is they was closed to people who already had other medical problems or needed them diagnosed but was turned away and Covid took priority thus leaving this others to suffer and in Many cases die. So it was give or take one way or the other but Covid was the winner and every family with a member who had other issues was basically told to go fuck themselfs " Ah I see you’re looking for utopia we’re everyone gets treated. The nhs makes choices every day on who gets treated and who doesn’t. | |||
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"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say. Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask. Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research." I’m Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now. | |||
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"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say. Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask. Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research. I’m Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now. " You're pretty certain? Ok. Thank you for your learned contribution. | |||
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"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say. Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask. Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research. I’m Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now. You're pretty certain? Ok. Thank you for your learned contribution." your most welcome | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."The UK lockdown had positives too. Including for the economy, if that is what counts. At the start, exponential growth in infection levels was doubling victims every 3 days or so. It helped to slow that growth to the levels of today. Without lockdown many thousands of people more would be dead, disabled and the health service would have been overwhelmed. That helped the economy to a significant extent. | |||
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" Yet Sweden did not lockdown. **”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”** ——————————- Sweden not locking down did them NO favours. Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders. Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse. **”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”** ——————————- Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us. And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world) And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases. You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....” Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take. But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. your explanation about Sweden is actually very wrong their economy is facing its worst crises since World War Two due to world issues not there’s and actually the economy is due to shrink less than most. They work on somthing called a hit rate ( you will need to google ) which infact yes means they saw a larger climb in infections and death rates than others but actually they are now pretty much at the same level as those that went into lockdown and are expected to see a slower and lower infection rate over the next 6 months than most as their younger more resilinant generations have already been infected therefore at less risk of now passing it on. Read science not the daily mail." There is no science in what you have said. Sweden’s death rate is the worst in Scandinavia that’s a fact. Even some other Scandinavia countries have imposed restrictions on Swedish tourists as a result of that. Had they locked down like their neighbours they would have had less infections & less deaths. And covid took a toll on their economy, that’s partly why they are facing their worst crisis since the Second World War. | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better " What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? | |||
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" What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? " I personally think that when this is eventually over the analysis will show that lockdown actually made very little difference to the eventual outcome. In the event there is a viable vaccine found in the short term it may be seen as a success however there is absolutely no guarantee of a viable vaccine and in it's abscence the ultimate death & disability toll from covid probably won't be very different. The additional death toll resulting from lockdown & recession however is likely to be significant - and hard to justify. | |||
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Oh you are amusing. The satire is brilliant. | |||
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"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ? It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up. Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong. It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason! "no it is the other way round the left are irrational and nasty | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? " There is study in the Lacet titled. A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes. Its findings indicate that the death rate in a country does not correlate with how tight its lockdown was. It does however correlate strongly with how fat its population is. | |||
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"I will Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? There is study in the Lacet titled. A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes. Its findings indicate that the death rate in a country does not correlate with how tight its lockdown was. It does however correlate strongly with how fat its population is. " That doesn't answer the question asked though  | |||
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" What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? I personally think that when this is eventually over the analysis will show that lockdown actually made very little difference to the eventual outcome. In the event there is a viable vaccine found in the short term it may be seen as a success however there is absolutely no guarantee of a viable vaccine and in it's abscence the ultimate death & disability toll from covid probably won't be very different. The additional death toll resulting from lockdown & recession however is likely to be significant - and hard to justify." That doesn't answer the question though, either | |||
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"The only similarity between the U.K. and Sweden is that both failed miserably at protecting their care home residents." But Sweden have done far better in Eurovision recently! | |||
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