FabSwingers.com forum: Sweden

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you suggesting that I shield indefinitely? Gee, thanks.

I'd have preferred a harsher, shorter lockdown like New Zealand or South Africa, then I could return to having a life.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?"
Try looking at deaths per 100,000 and sq mtr to population and you might have a different view to how well they have done.

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By *exyFusionCouple
over a year ago

Near to you

Yeah, Sweden doing okay - not so much. Their death rate per capita far exceeds the other Scandinavian countries that did lock down.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?"

But they did temp' ban meetings of over 50 people - Advised work from home - said avoid travel - people above 70 to stay home - social distancing - 62 thousand confirmed cases - Health service under sever strain - and has been said many many times before their population is wide-spread.

They haven't had it easy either.

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By *exyFusionCouple
over a year ago

Near to you

The highest number of confirmed coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in the Nordic countries as of June 23, 2020 was in Sweden, where the number amounted to 5,161. Denmark followed with 603 corona-related deaths, Finland with 327, and Norway with 248.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Im not saying they had all the awnsers. But they done better than us on the death rate per capita and there economy grew.

I feel our approach has been more hysterical than it has to have been.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Are you suggesting that I shield indefinitely? Gee, thanks.

I'd have preferred a harsher, shorter lockdown like New Zealand or South Africa, then I could return to having a life. "

I wasn't suggesting anyone shields indefinitely.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Im not saying they had all the awnsers. But they done better than us on the death rate per capita and there economy grew.

I feel our approach has been more hysterical than it has to have been.

The Swedes are also very different than us from a temperament point of view!

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By *onjo 61Man
over a year ago

northampton

"Im not saying they had all the awnsers. But they done better than us on the death rate per capita and there economy grew.

I feel our approach has been more hysterical than it has to have been.i completely agree with you

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/06/20 16:23:10]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Im not saying they had all the awnsers. But they done better than us on the death rate per capita and there economy grew.

I feel our approach has been more hysterical than it has to have been.

The Swedes are also very different than us from a temperament point of view!"

Yes, I like there temperament as well.

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

5th highest death rate in the world and as pointed out many more deaths than the rest of the Scandinavian countries put together. I don't think sweden should be held up as how a country should behave.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Im not saying they had all the awnsers. But they done better than us on the death rate per capita and there economy grew.

I feel our approach has been more hysterical than it has to have been.

The Swedes are also very different than us from a temperament point of view!

Yes, I like there temperament as well."

They make great TV too - particularly MDK !!!

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By *ancs_tgirl_38TV/TS
over a year ago

Blackpool

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of June 25, 2020, by country

(1st)Belgium

(2nd) UK: 43,081 Deaths

*647.94 deaths per million

(3rd) Spain

(4th) Italy

(5th) Sweden 5,230 Deaths

*513.59 Deaths per million

(6th) France

(7th)USA: 121,817 Deaths

*372.34 Deaths per million

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"5th highest death rate in the world and as pointed out many more deaths than the rest of the Scandinavian countries put together. I don't think sweden should be held up as how a country should behave."

That's your opinion and your welcome to it. Mine is there's was a better approach as it didn't come with the mental health issues, the job losses, the extended periods of loneliness. But that's just my opinion.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

"Are you suggesting that I shield indefinitely? Gee, thanks.

I'd have preferred a harsher, shorter lockdown like New Zealand or South Africa, then I could return to having a life. "
that only works if we dont let anyone in again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately the dead don’t get the option of an opinion.

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By *arksxMan
over a year ago

Leicester / London

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?"

Here is an apple let's compare it to an orange.

Great sen took their direction and it worked out for them. Good for them.

Who knows maybe it would have worked out for the uk too.

500000 have died prematurely even of we saved a few hundred people being safer than sorry makes sense to me.

Most of the economy will be back up in 10 days.

This is brand new virus lots of decisions to be made some will be right some will be wrong.

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here

"Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of June 25, 2020, by country

(1st)Belgium

(2nd) UK: 43,081 Deaths

*647.94 deaths per million

(3rd) Spain

(4th) Italy

(5th) Sweden 5,230 Deaths

*513.59 Deaths per million

(6th) France

(7th)USA: 121,817 Deaths

*372.34 Deaths per million"

Actually, No 1 is San Marino with 1238 Deaths per Million population and Andorra is ahead of the UK with 673

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?

Here is an apple let's compare it to an orange.

Great sen took their direction and it worked out for them. Good for them.

Who knows maybe it would have worked out for the uk too.

500000 have died prematurely even of we saved a few hundred people being safer than sorry makes sense to me.

Most of the economy will be back up in 10 days.

This is brand new virus lots of decisions to be made some will be right some will be wrong. "

Well in this case there isn't much point of a virus forum then is there?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Unfortunately the dead don’t get the option of an opinion."

So because people have died from this terrible virus, I can't have my opinion on it??

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By *arksxMan
over a year ago

Leicester / London

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?

Here is an apple let's compare it to an orange.

Great sen took their direction and it worked out for them. Good for them.

Who knows maybe it would have worked out for the uk too.

500000 have died prematurely even of we saved a few hundred people being safer than sorry makes sense to me.

Most of the economy will be back up in 10 days.

This is brand new virus lots of decisions to be made some will be right some will be wrong.

Well in this case there isn't much point of a virus forum then is there?"

You've voiced your opinion

Other have voiced there's

It doesn't have to be an argument and no do you or I have to "win"

I see your point of view I don't agree with it... But accept you have yours

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?

Here is an apple let's compare it to an orange.

Great sen took their direction and it worked out for them. Good for them.

Who knows maybe it would have worked out for the uk too.

500000 have died prematurely even of we saved a few hundred people being safer than sorry makes sense to me.

Most of the economy will be back up in 10 days.

This is brand new virus lots of decisions to be made some will be right some will be wrong.

Well in this case there isn't much point of a virus forum then is there?

You've voiced your opinion

Other have voiced there's

It doesn't have to be an argument and no do you or I have to "win"

I see your point of view I don't agree with it... But accept you have yours"

Thank you. At least you haven't just attempted to chop mine down.

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By *ancs_tgirl_38TV/TS
over a year ago

Blackpool

Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Sweden may be a bit (but only a bit) better than the UK on death rate per million. UK 637. Sweden 518.

Sweden's number is put into a bit more perspective when compared to the 2nd worse in the Nordic countries (Denmark) which is a country mile behind on 104.

However on infection rate per million Sweden is a lot worse than the UK

UK 4537. Sweden 6420.

Only yesterday for example, Sweden with a population of less than one fifth of the UK recorded 1085 compared to the UK on 1118.

Sweden is absolutely NOT a shining example of doing it right.

All figures from Worldometers as of midnight GMT 25th June.

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By *arksxMan
over a year ago

Leicester / London

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?

Here is an apple let's compare it to an orange.

Great sen took their direction and it worked out for them. Good for them.

Who knows maybe it would have worked out for the uk too.

500000 have died prematurely even of we saved a few hundred people being safer than sorry makes sense to me.

Most of the economy will be back up in 10 days.

This is brand new virus lots of decisions to be made some will be right some will be wrong.

Well in this case there isn't much point of a virus forum then is there?

You've voiced your opinion

Other have voiced there's

It doesn't have to be an argument and no do you or I have to "win"

I see your point of view I don't agree with it... But accept you have yours

Thank you. At least you haven't just attempted to chop mine down."

If one thing good thing comes out of the cluster fuck that is 2020

I hope it's that people realise you can have civil discourse on the internet without turning into a twitter twat.

I learn alot of things from people I don't agree with. It doen't mean I age have to agree with their opinion or analysis. I can make my own informed opinion

Once people learn to get over that. Its much easier to talk and accept the (opinions) of others

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

INTU already had 4.5 Billion in debts before the crisis. If this is what they call 'business' then it's hardly surprising.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sweden may be a bit (but only a bit) better than the UK on death rate per million. UK 637. Sweden 518.

Sweden's number is put into a bit more perspective when compared to the 2nd worse in the Nordic countries (Denmark) which is a country mile behind on 104.

However on infection rate per million Sweden is a lot worse than the UK

UK 4537. Sweden 6420.

Only yesterday for example, Sweden with a population of less than one fifth of the UK recorded 1085 compared to the UK on 1118.

Sweden is absolutely NOT a shining example of doing it right.

All figures from Worldometers as of midnight GMT 25th June."

The high count for last week was down to a surge in testing. There virus expert saud they have the virus in retreat, yet that none of the massive negative affects of a full lockdown.

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By *arksxMan
over a year ago

Leicester / London

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

INTU already had 4.5 Billion in debts before the crisis. If this is what they call 'business' then it's hardly surprising."

Its what you call an estate management company.

Do you think they own those buildings out right?

They have a commercial mortgage albeit a more complex product

That said this is capitalism. They will fail and another company in a better postion will buy it them up.

Well that is how the model is supposed to work...

Not go cap on hand to the government and say please lend us money at below the Base rate.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

INTU already had 4.5 Billion in debts before the crisis. If this is what they call 'business' then it's hardly surprising.

Its what you call an estate management company.

Do you think they own those buildings out right?

They have a commercial mortgage albeit a more complex product

That said this is capitalism. They will fail and another company in a better postion will buy it them up.

Well that is how the model is supposed to work...

Not go cap on hand to the government and say please lend us money at below the Base rate. "

Already knew all that.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey. "

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly."

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

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By *arksxMan
over a year ago

Leicester / London

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

Let a brand new unresearched virus run rampant around the globe.

Sounds about right for 2020 logic.

2020 the year of the knee "jerk" response

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"Let a brand new unresearched virus run rampant around the globe.

It has already done exactly that.

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By *um4meMan
over a year ago

Scotland

Geographically, Sweden and the rest of the Scandinavian countries are very different from the UK.

Many towns are spread out over vast distances throughout the country and not as congested as we are which played a role in their decisions taken to combat Covid-19.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 26/06/20 19:11:10]

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"Let a brand new unresearched virus run rampant around the globe.

It has already done exactly that. "

And that happened due to not locking down quick enough.

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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"Let a brand new unresearched virus run rampant around the globe.

It has already done exactly that.

And that happened due to not locking down quick enough. "

That's how you see things and we are perfectly fine with that.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The Swedish Health Minister has stated that they would have done some things differently, with the hindsight that they have. It's great to hear governments saying this.

Sweden, like many more places, has had major issues with older people's care homes.

They still have some places closed there, such as clubs, where local authorities have control.

The population has greater respect for those in authority, like the government, than here in the UK, so their approach would have had a much worse outcome here.

If we'd not had a lockdown, we would have been in a dreadfully worse position than now, which is already pretty bad.

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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago

Camarthen

Population of Sweden 10.5 million, population of London 9.3 approx, land mass of Sweden, land mass of London!

Just work the maths out

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By *ymph and ManicCouple
over a year ago

North East

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By *ymph and ManicCouple
over a year ago

North East

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey. "
. ...Intu were in trouble long before pandemic. ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mainland large countries with a larger 'per capita' than Sweden:

Spain

Italy

Notice what happened to those big three?

Yeah. It's not just a case of looking at the absolute numbers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey. "

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion."

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either."

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know that if I stay at home, only going out when it’s necessary to do shopping (wearing a mask) and of course, maintain social distancing, I should be pretty safe. I stress this decision is for me and I have no opinion about anyone else who chooses to do different.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary."

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc."

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Depends if you think letting lots of people die is ok.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now."

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??"

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation."

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority"

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

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By *orkiecplCouple
over a year ago

York

Ask yourself a few questions and you will then understand , 1) do we have a viable vacination available

2) do we have a viable cure or treatment that stops covid 19 before you need hospital

3) why are all the nightingale hospitals still open

The answer to all of this is the only way out of this is to let everyone catch it so all the lockdown was for was to stop the nhs be overwhelmed, and thats why the schools are been re-opened kids might not get the virus bad but you can guarantee they are super spreaders. The main reasons the lockdown ended is without a fictional economy they is no taxes to pay for the nhs

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though. That's the whole the medicine is worse than the disease situation.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though. That's the whole the medicine is worse than the disease situation."

".....You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though....."

Nobody said we should stop living.

Lockdown was a necessary measure to protect the NHS, and control the spead of the virus when we had record number of hospitalisations, and number of deaths were getting into 4 and 5 figures.

Restrictions are being eased as time goes on.

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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago

Camarthen

"Ask yourself a few questions and you will then understand , 1) do we have a viable vacination available

2) do we have a viable cure or treatment that stops covid 19 before you need hospital

3) why are all the nightingale hospitals still open

Nightingale hospitals are not open and were hardly used which is a good thing keeping them makes sense though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though. That's the whole the medicine is worse than the disease situation.

".....You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though....."

Nobody said we should stop living.

Lockdown was a necessary measure to protect the NHS, and control the spead of the virus when we had record number of hospitalisations, and number of deaths were getting into 4 and 5 figures.

Restrictions are being eased as time goes on."

Sweden didn't think it was necessary.

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though. That's the whole the medicine is worse than the disease situation.

".....You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though....."

Nobody said we should stop living.

Lockdown was a necessary measure to protect the NHS, and control the spead of the virus when we had record number of hospitalisations, and number of deaths were getting into 4 and 5 figures.

Restrictions are being eased as time goes on.

Sweden didn't think it was necessary."

They do now with hindsight. Government has said they got a lot of things wrong. It has thousands of lives compared to other Scandinavian countries and there economies have bounced back better than sweden too.

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

I'm sorry but if you look at the death case data, per million citizens, as a poster above has provided you'll see this is incorrect.

Empirical data doesn't care for your opinion.

It's still my opinion though, I think this half locked down half unlocked, 1 metre plus approach, everyone being careful, would have een better than the full lockdown.

And I don't care for empirical data's opinion either.

".....everyone being careful...." ??

That's what is lacking (the everyone being careful ), which is why in my opinion a FULL lock down was necessary.

Most people are more aware of it, wash there hands more, wear face masks, etc, etc.

"....Most people are more aware of it..."

Is it 'awareness' we are talking about or compliance ??

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

Aware of it, most people weren't even aware of what it was January. The majority of people are much more careful about it now.

Compliance is the question

How many are complying with social distance for example ??

I believe most are doing the best they can. You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots in any situation.

"....You have to expect a tiny minority of idiots ...."

Was it just a 'tiny minority' breaking social distancing at the VE celebrations, the protests, the beaches, the Liverpool cup celebrations and the street parties and raves ??

Yeah, in a country of 60 million, they are a tiny minority

It is not a tiny minority. And the examples I gave above are not exclusive.

Lots of people also breaking the social distancing in supermarkets and other places.

People still meeting on and off Fabs even when we were on lockdown.

MPs & health advisers also called out for not following the guidance.

You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though. That's the whole the medicine is worse than the disease situation.

".....You can't stop living because of this horrible virus though....."

Nobody said we should stop living.

Lockdown was a necessary measure to protect the NHS, and control the spead of the virus when we had record number of hospitalisations, and number of deaths were getting into 4 and 5 figures.

Restrictions are being eased as time goes on.

Sweden didn't think it was necessary."

"....Sweden didn't think it was necessary...."

It explains why their death toll is the highest in Scandinavia.

That's why Norway and Denmark have excluded Sweden from their tourism.

Danish PM Mette Frederiksen said Denmark and Sweden were in different places regarding the pandemic.

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By *haggy_bearMan
over a year ago

Sligo

Maybe Sweden will develop herd immunity before the rest of the world

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"Maybe Sweden will develop herd immunity before the rest of the world"

Maybe, but that depends on whether herd immunity works.

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

"Maybe Sweden will develop herd immunity before the rest of the world

Maybe, but that depends on whether herd immunity works. "

Correct and noone knows if the catching the virus gives you immunity at all or if so for how long. No one has the faintest idea of what percentage of people wpuld need to be immune to grant herd immunity. Lets hope its not 93 to 95% like measles.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Maybe Sweden will develop herd immunity before the rest of the world

Maybe, but that depends on whether herd immunity works. "

It will have to work if we don't find a vaccine.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Maybe Sweden will develop herd immunity before the rest of the world

Maybe, but that depends on whether herd immunity works.

It will have to work if we don't find a vaccine."

Just because we want something, doesn't make it happen. We don't know the details of potential immunity atm and none of the over 140 vaccines in development have research data available. The Oxford 1 is now being administered to thousands of at risk medical staff in Brazil etc.

Herd immunity might result from effective vaccines or past infections. We need to wait to see what the research evidence brings.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did."

And postponed the peak until winter ?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did.

And postponed the peak until winter ?"

If you believe that those countries that were more successful than us have just postponed the problem, that's a very narrow perspective to take.

In any event, time has given and will continue to provide, greater expertise, more treatment options and can save lives.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did.

And postponed the peak until winter ?

If you believe that those countries that were more successful than us have just postponed the problem, that's a very narrow perspective to take.

In any event, time has given and will continue to provide, greater expertise, more treatment options and can save lives. "

That's true, and hindsight is wonderful, and I'm pretty sure that there will be more things in the next 12 months we will look back on and wish we had done differently.

Let's see how we get through next winter before declaring winners and losers. Remember far too many people had trouble obeying the restrictions we had never mind trying to have made lockdown more strict, obedience doesn't seem to be a British trait.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did.

And postponed the peak until winter ?

If you believe that those countries that were more successful than us have just postponed the problem, that's a very narrow perspective to take.

In any event, time has given and will continue to provide, greater expertise, more treatment options and can save lives.

That's true, and hindsight is wonderful, and I'm pretty sure that there will be more things in the next 12 months we will look back on and wish we had done differently.

When you say far to many people had trouble obeying the restrictions, do you mean boris top scientific advisor and Cummings?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It amazes me that people base their whole argument of the death and infection rates we have had with lockdown. What do people think the death and infection rates would have been without lockdown? Look at the US now. Look at Italy and Spain in the early weeks before lockdown. New York before lockdown.

If the UK had not locked down we would have had uncontrolled infection. The whole working population would likely have got it. Every hospital would have been choosing which patient to treat and which not to treat. In that scenario the whole economy would have collapsed. There would have been no food on shelves. Basic services would have not been provided as everyone would have been sick. Vast swathes of the population would still be very ill now.

If you want to look at other countries than the US, then look at Brazil. Hospitals have collapsed in some parts of the country.

You just cannot base your whole view on where we are now without thinking where we would have been now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right."

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?"

Sweden are, per capita, near the top of covid death stats. Rest of Scandi countries who DID lock down are near the bottom.

Swedens public health agency figures show 48.9% of deaths are among elderly in care.

Total shambles!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden? "

Because the virus affected them and us.

They dealt with it a different way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden?

Because the virus affected them and us.

They dealt with it a different way."

Sweden’s population density 25.4 per square km

UKs populations density 275 per square km

England’s population density 432 per square km.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden?

Because the virus affected them and us.

They dealt with it a different way."

And how do you think Lindon and New York would have coped had Sweden been copied?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Another one bites the dust.

Intu, owner of some of the UK's biggest shopping centres, to enter administration.

The economic damage from shut down will last for years to come and will take more lives than the virus itself.

Massive mistakes where made in the beginning regarding carehomes both here, and in NY, Seattle, New Jersey.

"....Massive mistakes where made in the beginning...."

And one of those mistakes was not locking down quickly.

The only massive mistake is the whole lockdown.

There wasn't a lockdown, it was restrictions.

We should have gone into strict lockdown, just like other countries did.

And postponed the peak until winter ?

If you believe that those countries that were more successful than us have just postponed the problem, that's a very narrow perspective to take.

In any event, time has given and will continue to provide, greater expertise, more treatment options and can save lives. "

It's not a focus about winners and losers, as we're all losing somehow.

Humans are skilled to learn as we go. We don't need to repeat past mistakes, nor to fail to improve.

There's unlikely to have been any place where the perfect approach was taken. This becomes more obvious when looking at those countries where they have likely taken the worse routes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden?

Because the virus affected them and us.

They dealt with it a different way.

And how do you think Lindon and New York would have coped had Sweden been copied?"

I believe with social distancing

We wouldn't have seen the catastrophic financial impacts. Also the filling up of the pubs and the beaches will show us how it would have gone. As nothing has changed from then and now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So is it still not better to have just socially distanced all the way through, then lockdown for a few weeks, then go absolutely mental with hundreds of thousands of jobs axed as well.

I still believe Sweden had it right.

How is a global city like London or New York in any way comparable to Sweden?

Because the virus affected them and us.

They dealt with it a different way.

And how do you think Lindon and New York would have coped had Sweden been copied?

I believe with social distancing

We wouldn't have seen the catastrophic financial impacts. Also the filling up of the pubs and the beaches will show us how it would have gone. As nothing has changed from then and now."

Social distancing on its own cannot work. If you have ever travelled on the tube or trains you will know that. Lockdown was the only way.

Where we have gone wrong is not making masks law. The lockdown should have been used to structure the social distancing properly. Track and trace etc. We could have then had a short term lockdown and emerged stronger.

But we are a very liberal country and any perceived reduction in civil liberties would end up in the courts.

Everything we do now has to be about making our economy pandemic proof. There will be another.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Reading about the 60000 jobs at risk and the 2 trillion pound debt

We are now in has done nothing to change my mind on Sweden getting it right and the lockdown not working.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Reading about the 60000 jobs at risk and the 2 trillion pound debt

We are now in has done nothing to change my mind on Sweden getting it right and the lockdown not working.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Reading about the 60000 jobs at risk and the 2 trillion pound debt

We are now in has done nothing to change my mind on Sweden getting it right and the lockdown not working."

Sweden have recorded 545 deaths per million of population, this is 7th highest and MUCH higher than the USA.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Reading about the 60000 jobs at risk and the 2 trillion pound debt

We are now in has done nothing to change my mind on Sweden getting it right and the lockdown not working.

Sweden have recorded 545 deaths per million of population, this is 7th highest and MUCH higher than the USA.

Cal"

So there were 6 worse than them and there economy is not fucked.

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By *isexhotcoupleCouple
over a year ago

london

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?Try looking at deaths per 100,000 and sq mtr to population and you might have a different view to how well they have done."

Also try looking per 100,000 SQ metre every other year before covid and there more than likely much the same!

Look at the atual numbers they don't lie!

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By *isexhotcoupleCouple
over a year ago

london

"Sweden never went into lock down and are doing ok.

I feel some people are being hysterical about the beach scenes.

I know the virus is a terrible thing and the very vulnerable need shielding.

But shouldn't the rest of us be getting on with it now?Try looking at deaths per 100,000 and sq mtr to population and you might have a different view to how well they have done."

Also try looking per 100,000 SQ metre every other year before covid and there more than likely much the same!

Look at the atual numbers they don't lie!

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By *D835Man
over a year ago

London

"Reading about the 60000 jobs at risk and the 2 trillion pound debt

We are now in has done nothing to change my mind on Sweden getting it right and the lockdown not working."

Sweden didn’t get anything right.

Their decision has caused them to have the highest death rate in Scandinavia.

And as for their economy, they are facing the worst crisis since the Second World War.

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