FabSwingers.com forum: Review of Social Distancing

By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

Does anyone know from where we get our UK specified "2m social distancing"?

Is it from the NHS or PHE (Public Health England)?

Only saying that other countries have adopted differently:

USA = 1.8m (6 feet)

Australia = 1.5m (I think)

Austria = 1.0m (or so I believe)

Most importantly:

WHO recommendation = 1.0m

I'm having problems finding the true social distance figures for other countries using Google

Does anyone know the truth of this?

(Serious consequences for table spacing in our pubs, cinemas, and restaurants).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does it really matter, all our guidance says 2 meters so it's 2 meters.

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

I couldn't find much on it. I am sure most of europe is 1 to 1.5 metres. Hopefully be reviewed and gone in the next few months

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By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Does it really matter, all our guidance says 2 meters so it's 2 meters. "

This.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rule of thumb! No real evidence for 2m according to Robert Dingwell of NERVTAG who feed in through SAGE to the government.

Even WHO recommend 1m

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MIT measured sneezes at 8m, coughs at 6m indoors in still air. Potentially 100s of meters outside !

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

"MIT measured sneezes at 8m, coughs at 6m indoors in still air. Potentially 100s of meters outside !"
which is why if we all wore face coverings it would be a bonus

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Pretty sure I heard on the news someone was pushing for clarification on that and prof whitty would not budge on it. So may come from PHE. But don't quote me on that!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's the length of a hospital bed.

So I believe.

Eva XXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stupid thing is, most shed virus is aerosol.(airborne) anyway not waterborne. Masks are pretty much useless against aerosol as is social distancing. Once airborne, viruses can circle the world. That's thought to be how they got around the world before air travel!

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By *lubcouple2Couple
over a year ago

newport

It was set at 2 metres by uk government apparently the british people could not be trusted to stay 1 meter apart through social distancing , been told this by family members who are frontline paramedics and nurses also one two family members working for public health wales

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

A lot of businesses are saying that they could find an equivalent to many of the other countries distance to allow them to be financially viable, whereas 2m isn't.

We're thus leaving our businesses at a disadvantage for the recovery.

It should be an evidence based decision. Places like Austria are coming out of lockdown and managing fairly well. We may have to accept that more places may go bust, with more jobs lost, because we are stubborn, without good enough reason.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"MIT measured sneezes at 8m, coughs at 6m indoors in still air. Potentially 100s of meters outside !"

Yes worse outside than inside! I don’t really trust the social distancing recommendations .

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By *ings66Man
over a year ago

Bristol

Have you seen a person using a E-Cigarette and the spread of the vaper as they exhale

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

"I couldn't find much on it. I am sure most of europe is 1 to 1.5 metres. Hopefully be reviewed and gone in the next few months "

Why hopefully be gone?

Isn't public safety more important than inconvenience?

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By *rippy gushy meWoman
over a year ago

north london

As of today the law has made it illegal to have sex with someone from a different house hold so what is everyone doing

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By *ings66Man
over a year ago

Bristol

"As of today the law has made it illegal to have sex with someone from a different house hold so what is everyone doing"

How are the police going to enforce this 1, will they need a court order to get access or 2, just force entry in and see them having sex.

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By *emma HoldenTV/TS
over a year ago

Ramsey

"It was set at 2 metres by uk government apparently the british people could not be trusted to stay 1 meter apart through social distancing , been told this by family members who are frontline paramedics and nurses also one two family members working for public health wales"

And you only have to watch the footage on telly to see that the public can't distance to save themselves even at 2 metres. No wonder it was set that high. This country is getting as thick as the Americans but can't admit it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is pushing population control a bit to far.

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By *ustfun 1984Man
over a year ago

exeter

"I couldn't find much on it. I am sure most of europe is 1 to 1.5 metres. Hopefully be reviewed and gone in the next few months

Why hopefully be gone?

Isn't public safety more important than inconvenience? "

can't understand why people are so quick to want social distance stopped it there for a reason can't seem to win

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As of today the law has made it illegal to have sex with someone from a different house hold so what is everyone doing"

I believe regulation 7 has an exception for work purposes... so a visit from a sex worker is lawful. Just putting it out there...

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

"I couldn't find much on it. I am sure most of europe is 1 to 1.5 metres. Hopefully be reviewed and gone in the next few months

Why hopefully be gone?

Isn't public safety more important than inconvenience?

can't understand why people are so quick to want social distance stopped it there for a reason can't seem to win "
so well we social distance for as long as this virus is around???

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By *limmatureguyMan
over a year ago

Tonbridge

In France it is 1m. They relaxed lockdown nearly a month ago and there has been no increase. Hell, I've even fallen back into the 'kissing on both cheeks' greeting and no ill effects so far.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is little real evidence that social distancing indoors has any benefit whatsoever regardless of distance.

If anyone wants a simple demonstration of why not, consider what happens when you have workmen in your house doing any job that creates dust. The dust settles almost everywhere, and certainly far beyond 2m from the source. Dust particles are far larger than Coronavirus aerosols resulting from coughs or sneezes so should fall to earth far more rapidly... and do. The low rate of air changes indoors also aids the buildup of Coronavirus aerosols, increasing the risk of infection.

Outdoors, things are different. Wind & air currents rapidly disperse aerosols (think smoke from a fire) so while they may travel further the concentrations are far lower. Lower concentration, less risk of infection. You also have environmental factors outdoors - the UV from sunlight can weaken or kill Coronavirus, aerosols tend to travel less well in damp, humid conditions and rain can effectively wash them to the ground.

To become infected you need to be exposed to a sufficient number of virus particles in order for them to cause disease. The risk of infection can be considered as :

Concentration of virus x length of exposure

If you are exposed to a high concentration of virus for a short time you are as likely to become infected as you would be if you were exposed to a lower concentration for a longer period.

Outdoors, keeping a 2m distance works as your are unlikely to be exposed to a high concentration of virus particles (you're far enough away to avoid it) and there is a very low level of virus in the atmosphere generally.

Indoors, where there is less airflow, the viral concentration in the atmosphere increases and while you will still avoid direct exposure by keeping 2m away it won't stop you being exposed to the higher viral concentration within the room. Stay there too long and you'll get infected, 2m or not.

Why do you think indoor meetings are being discouraged and offices, bars, restaurants & other indoor spaces where people spend a lot of time kept closed?

Also, the limit on numbers in shops is as much to keep the viral concentration in the atmosphere down as it is to ensure you can keep your distance.

it's also the reason why mass face-covering works... the face coverings don't stop YOU catching the virus, they stop you GIVING other people the virus by trapping most of the viral particles before they become airborn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In France it is 1m. They relaxed lockdown nearly a month ago and there has been no increase. Hell, I've even fallen back into the 'kissing on both cheeks' greeting and no ill effects so far. "

What are the new rules? Are they similar to England?

I know various countries have relaxed their lockdowns but they seemed to have different levels of rules so difficult to compare.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is little real evidence that social distancing indoors has any benefit whatsoever regardless of distance.

To become infected you need to be exposed to a sufficient number of virus particles in order for them to cause disease. The risk of infection can be considered as :

Concentration of virus x length of exposure

If you are exposed to a high concentration of virus for a short time you are as likely to become infected as you would be if you were exposed to a lower concentration for a longer period.

Why do you think indoor meetings are being discouraged and offices, bars, restaurants & other indoor spaces where people spend a lot of time kept closed?

Also, the limit on numbers in shops is as much to keep the viral concentration in the atmosphere down as it is to ensure you can keep your distance.

Brilliant explanation.

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By *ancs_tgirl_38TV/TS
over a year ago

Blackpool

After what's happened in London today, its scrapped,

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

We have to work to 2 metres because Boris and his band of hypocrites say so. Live with it and blame everyone who voted for him !

(dunno if Starmer would have done better, but could he have done worse, who knows, but he may have made more sense).

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By *raceytvcdTV/TS
over a year ago

mansfield

"After what's happened in London today, its scrapped,"
what happened in London? X

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By *ir-spunk-alotMan
over a year ago

Southern England

what difference does it make, you have to keep a distance, the bigger the better.

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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

But not 6 or 8 metres if you sneeze into a tissue surely?

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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

But not 6 or 8 metres if you sneeze into a tissue surely?

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By *ncutgemMan
over a year ago

Bath ish

Because were so thick if its one metre most will think THAT means touching

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"We have to work to 2 metres because Boris and his band of hypocrites say so. Live with it and blame everyone who voted for him !

(dunno if Starmer would have done better, but could he have done worse, who knows, but he may have made more sense). "
If he had said 1 metre you would be saying it should be 2.

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By *moothdickMan
over a year ago

stoke

Does it really care, watching some of the deadheads in supermarkets, the street, work etc.. some of these think 2 meters is standing next or working past people rubbing shoulders, cuz it’s all about them and what they want .... 2 meters is good for me, fuck what the yanks and the others do

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

Back to back at 0.1m is better than face to face at 2m

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

"Does it really care, watching some of the deadheads in supermarkets, the street, work etc.. some of these think 2 meters is standing next or working past people rubbing shoulders, cuz it’s all about them and what they want .... 2 meters is good for me, fuck what the yanks and the others do

Less than 2m for a few seconds is not going to cause infection unless that person sneezes directly at you in those few seconds, and if they sneeze even 2m won't save you

It's all about common sense really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My fave bit of virus info was that this is a Very heavy virus so could be actively brushed off or it wouldn't carry as far as others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Back to back sounds fun ..I think the two most popular positions after lockdown will be reverse cowgirl and doggy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does it really matter, all our guidance says 2 meters so it's 2 meters. "

Agree. 1 or 2 metres makes little or no difference if you can’t touch..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They say it's only really dangerous if exposed to someone for over 10-15minutes..lolguess a lot of guys would be finished by then ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does anyone know from where we get our UK specified "2m social distancing"?

Is it from the NHS or PHE (Public Health England)?

Only saying that other countries have adopted differently:

USA = 1.8m (6 feet)

Australia = 1.5m (I think)

Austria = 1.0m (or so I believe)

Most importantly:

WHO recommendation = 1.0m

I'm having problems finding the true social distance figures for other countries using Google

Does anyone know the truth of this?

(Serious consequences for table spacing in our pubs, cinemas, and restaurants).

"
what difference does it make nobody abides by it

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By *i1971Man
over a year ago

Cornwall

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Rule of thumb! No real evidence for 2m according to Robert Dingwell of NERVTAG who feed in through SAGE to the government.

Even WHO recommend 1m"

My opinion

Its plausible that just over 1 m is effective on average for effective viral spread

mitigation

It's most likely an analysis of UK humans that tell them 2 m and you will statistically end up with an effective majority above 1 m

Tell UK humans 1 m

And their bolshy attitude will result in 20 cms and an infective reduction in spread

Humans do like to push their luck and limits

Obviously the whole distance thing is vastly more sophisticated and nuanced than an arbitrary 2m

Time at distance is significant

As is direction faced

Ie touching back to back for 30 seconds outside no wind would be equally safe

But UK humans need simple sound bites

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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

The difference between one metre social distance and two metres, is the business viability of opening our pubs and restaurants.

Where 1m of separation is practical

But - 2m separation is not!

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By *9 kisses.Man
over a year ago

clacton on sea

Today I've been to my local Morrisons,

No queuing went straight in and it was really busy,

You couldn't give people two metre distance,

The isles were busy,

But I still had to queue to pay and respect the two metre distance at the tills,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Back to back sounds fun ..I think the two most popular positions after lockdown will be reverse cowgirl and doggy"

I’m trying to picture how those are back to back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not sure but I think it is about 1.5m.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

Isn't it funny how most European countries just follow the regulations to try to get back to some sort of normality while British can not accept anything and argue against it whilst in tbe next breath condemning the government for the highest death toll in Europe

Lockdown too late

Too much lockdown

Not enough lockdown

Masks dont stop the spread

1 vs 1.5 vs 2m separation

Just saying

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

This paper was posted by the government website today.

Paper for SAGE – distance, time, handshakes

Paper prepared by NERVTAG (Peter Horby, Ben Killingley, Lisa Ritchie)

12 March 2020

Safe distance from a case

1. PHE COVID-19 contact tracing guidance uses ‘=2 metres of the case for 15 minutes’

as one of the criteria for contact tracing.

2. Experimental data suggest that few droplets will be expelled beyond 2m:

a. “substantial increase in airborne exposure to droplet nuclei exhaled by the

source manikin when a susceptible manikin is within about 1.5 m of the

source manikin”. Indoor Air, 2017, 27 (2), 452-462

b. Talking: “Almost 90 per cent fell within a distance of 0.3 m.” Coughing:

“Fifteen per cent of the droplets could reach the back wall, which is more than

0.5 m away.” J R Soc Interface. 2009 Dec 6; 6(Suppl 6): S703–S714.

c. “Fewer than 10 per cent of these large droplets travelled as far as 5 ½ feet.”

Am J Med 1948;4:690.

3. Epidemiological data suggest that transmission at a distance of 1m is possible,

although this is in a sick patient in a health care setting.

a. “four of eight students who were in the same cubicle but were not within 1 m

of the index case-patient, contracted SARS.” Emerg Infect Dis 2004;10(2):269-

76.

4. Therefore, in terms of risk of transmission via close contact in the community, 1

metre is a minimum, 2 metres is precautionary.

Time in proximity to a case:

5. Transmission can occur quickly therefore there is no entirely safe minimum duration.

6. Epidemiological data from SARS suggest, unsurprisingly, that risk increases with

duration of exposure

a. “Exposure for =30 min at a distance of =1 m was the strongest risk factor”

Epidemiol Infect. 2007 Aug; 135(6): 914–921.

7. THE PHE guidance for COVID-19 contact tracing that specifies ‘15 minutes’ is

therefore a pragmatic and possibly conservative threshold for the purposes of

contact tracing.

Handshakes

8. There is no evidence that avoiding handshakes reduces the risk of infection but on

first principles it may result in a minor reduction in risk.

9. Shaking hands may pose a risk of transmission if the hands of one party are

contaminated and the virus is subsequently transferred to eyes, nose or mouth by

your hands.

10. A handshake is only one of many ways that hands might become contaminated.

Touching door handles, desks, handrails and other surfaces is much more frequent

11. If hands of both parties are clean, shaking hands poses no risk.

12. Therefore, frequent hand washing and avoidance of touching your eyes, nose and

mouth are more important measures than avoiding handshakes.

13. If people wish to avoid handshakes, it is reasonable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does anyone know from where we get our UK specified "2m social distancing"?

Is it from the NHS or PHE (Public Health England)?

Only saying that other countries have adopted differently:

USA = 1.8m (6 feet)

Australia = 1.5m (I think)

Austria = 1.0m (or so I believe)

Most importantly:

WHO recommendation = 1.0m

I'm having problems finding the true social distance figures for other countries using Google

Does anyone know the truth of this?

(Serious consequences for table spacing in our pubs, cinemas, and restaurants).

I am sure i read that they could not trust is to stay 1m apart do then suggested 2m.

Also in America it is 6ft which is basicalky 2m but they do not use the metric system.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

"Does anyone know from where we get our UK specified "2m social distancing"?

Is it from the NHS or PHE (Public Health England)?

Only saying that other countries have adopted differently:

USA = 1.8m (6 feet)

Australia = 1.5m (I think)

Austria = 1.0m (or so I believe)

Most importantly:

WHO recommendation = 1.0m

I'm having problems finding the true social distance figures for other countries using Google

Does anyone know the truth of this?

(Serious consequences for table spacing in our pubs, cinemas, and restaurants).

I am sure i read that they could not trust is to stay 1m apart do then suggested 2m.

Also in America it is 6ft which is basicalky 2m but they do not use the metric system.

1.829m

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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

Well between 11th & 18th May, lockdowns were relaxed in Austria, Belgium, Czechia, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

In France, where social distancing was a sensible one metre (As recommended by WHO), they're now back to greeting each other with a kiss on each cheek.

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By *oft_SensualTV/TS
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Their infection rates were a fraction of what ours are now...and we are weeks behind the infection curve.

How you kiss someone at 1m is beyond me!

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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago

Clee

They kiss each other in France because the lockdown is over and done with

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By *oft_SensualTV/TS
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Not according to the gov.fr website as of five minutes ago...

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