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"Don't feed the troll."  | |||
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"What? Happy to be set straight if I've missed something" Lol yea yea OP your willing to be set straight
Next.............. | |||
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"What? Happy to be set straight if I've missed something" As a self employed person I've never worked so hard or been responsible for so much. Employment was far easier and less stressful. I've always paid tax correctly, have had no handouts and I'm working extremely hard to find solutions to the current situation. The tax burden will fall on everyone including the self employed. | |||
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"What? Happy to be set straight if I've missed something As a self employed person I've never worked so hard or been responsible for so much. Employment was far easier and less stressful. I've always paid tax correctly, have had no handouts and I'm working extremely hard to find solutions to the current situation. The tax burden will fall on everyone including the self employed. " To late you took the bait  | |||
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"What? Happy to be set straight if I've missed something As a self employed person I've never worked so hard or been responsible for so much. Employment was far easier and less stressful. I've always paid tax correctly, have had no handouts and I'm working extremely hard to find solutions to the current situation. The tax burden will fall on everyone including the self employed. To late you took the bait "Just stating facts...could say a lot more but looking at other peoples comments it wouldn't be worth it. Anyway, I'm starting work now so won't be commenting any more as I'm unlikely to finish before 8pm. | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing?" Maybe you should have done something about them evading tax for 30 yrs rather than vent your frustration in a scattergun approach..? There are and will be those who milk the system in all criteria and status however whatever your own issues are ranting generalised claims against one group only is strange.. Btw, only ever been paye.. | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing?" Where are you getting this free money idea from? | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " Hahah yeah I'm self employed..thanks for the help ! Been the best 3 months off I've had. Hope you get back to work soon and the government take any tax they want from you, before you see any of the money..mug | |||
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"What? Happy to be set straight if I've missed something As a self employed person I've never worked so hard or been responsible for so much. Employment was far easier and less stressful. I've always paid tax correctly, have had no handouts and I'm working extremely hard to find solutions to the current situation. The tax burden will fall on everyone including the self employed. To late you took the bait
Just stating facts...could say a lot more but looking at other peoples comments it wouldn't be worth it. Anyway, I'm starting work now so won't be commenting any more as I'm unlikely to finish before 8pm."Thanks you. You deserve a clap on a thursday too. Hugs xxx | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from?" From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed?" Not to be rude but you don't really understand what you are talking about do you? | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed?" I was under the impression that if you didn’t declare earnings to the taxman there wouldn’t be much of a handout. It’s all average earnings of what you say you have earned or declared to HMRC | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? Not to be rude but you don't really understand what you are talking about do you?" Please enlighten me, genuinely,happy to be informed | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? I was under the impression that if you didn’t declare earnings to the taxman there wouldn’t be much of a handout. It’s all average earnings of what you say you have earned or declared to HMRC" Correct, so their handout is based on what they declared over the years, which is far less than they should have, but still enough for a decent handout. My point is, why do the self employed only get a handout? | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? I was under the impression that if you didn’t declare earnings to the taxman there wouldn’t be much of a handout. It’s all average earnings of what you say you have earned or declared to HMRC" Bingo | |||
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"people who get made redundent will get redudancy why would the gov give them more money on top of that? i been off since 25th march and its looking more and more ikley i wont be going back.until airports go back to normal and they start opening the stores in them. then we dont have any stores open.at the mo you have boots the chemist open and that is it" My point exactly. Redundancy policies are different fpr each firm. Most firms try to get away with statutory which is a pittance,and nowhere near enough in these times until someone finds another job. Again, why only the self employed and not for all? | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? I was under the impression that if you didn’t declare earnings to the taxman there wouldn’t be much of a handout. It’s all average earnings of what you say you have earned or declared to HMRC Bingo "Look above please | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums "Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed. | |||
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"Well if you understand that why question the so called hand outs?" So it should apply to all. Self employed who have had to genuinely close their business, and the employed who are made redundant | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
"No its not the same rules. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
"agreed | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules. "Why not? These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
"what makes you think self employed don’t pay the appropriate taxes I’m sure the inland revenue would quickly chase us up and believe me they don’t miss a trick | |||
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"people who get made redundent will get redudancy why would the gov give them more money on top of that? i been off since 25th march and its looking more and more ikley i wont be going back.until airports go back to normal and they start opening the stores in them. then we dont have any stores open.at the mo you have boots the chemist open and that is it My point exactly. Redundancy policies are different fpr each firm. Most firms try to get away with statutory which is a pittance,and nowhere near enough in these times until someone finds another job. Again, why only the self employed and not for all?" thats for them to take up with there employer if they get statuary redundancy.myself last two firms i been laid off from ive had great payoffs.if i get made redundant again i will just sign on until i find something else.your making it sound if peeps get redundancy thats all they will have tolive on and thats just not true | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
what makes you think self employed don’t pay the appropriate taxes I’m sure the inland revenue would quickly chase us up and believe me they don’t miss a trick "Mrs naughty is self employed for over 30years guess what she has had off the government since she HAD to stop working ? Fuck all   | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
"This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
what makes you think self employed don’t pay the appropriate taxes I’m sure the inland revenue would quickly chase us up and believe me they don’t miss a trick
Mrs naughty is self employed for over 30years guess what she has had off the government since she HAD to stop working ? Fuck all "has she applied for what she is entitled to ? | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " Suck it up buttercup, life ain't fair. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact. "Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever | |||
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"people who get made redundent will get redudancy why would the gov give them more money on top of that? i been off since 25th march and its looking more and more ikley i wont be going back.until airports go back to normal and they start opening the stores in them. then we dont have any stores open.at the mo you have boots the chemist open and that is it My point exactly. Redundancy policies are different fpr each firm. Most firms try to get away with statutory which is a pittance,and nowhere near enough in these times until someone finds another job. Again, why only the self employed and not for all? thats for them to take up with there employer if they get statuary redundancy.myself last two firms i been laid off from ive had great payoffs.if i get made redundant again i will just sign on until i find something else.your making it sound if peeps get redundancy thats all they will have tolive on and thats just not true" Thats true, but its bullshit how the self employed seem to be protected, but employees are not to the same degree | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever"I take it they are only paid in cash then | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever"Lol because some told you. Sums it up really doesn't it  | |||
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"Personally I don’t see it as a handout if you’ve worked and paid in then tbh I think we should be entitled to something in times like this if my taxes go up next year to help the coffers out then so be it but personally I didn’t see my payments as a handout " Fine, but it should be available for ALL. Not just folks who have decided to take a risk and support themselves. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Lol because some told you.
Sums it up really doesn't it "Seriously mate? I've known these people pretty much all my life, grew up with them. I know what they do. I didnt begrudge them not paying what they should all those years, more fool the taxman for not finding out. But now when we ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER! clearly we are not though right? | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever I take it they are only paid in cash then "No of course not, but they declare a fraction of what they actually earn. Skim a bit off the top if you like. This isn't the issue though. Its more why they get the handouts while employees who are made redundant do not by the same rules. | |||
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"is it unfair that employees get sick pay and holiday pay and the self employed dont?" No, because the self employed made that choice. Employees dont choose to be made redundant, and the ones that do, should not get handouts( if they were entitled to them) | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Lol because some told you.
Sums it up really doesn't it
Seriously mate? I've known these people pretty much all my life, grew up with them. I know what they do.
I didnt begrudge them not paying what they should all those years, more fool the taxman for not finding out.
But now when we ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER! clearly we are not though right?"You started a thread stating the self employed shouldn't get hand outs because according to you, the people you know avoid or don't pay tax. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever I take it they are only paid in cash then
No of course not, but they declare a fraction of what they actually earn. Skim a bit off the top if you like.
This isn't the issue though.
Its more why they get the handouts while employees who are made redundant do not by the same rules.
"what about redundancy payments could that not be classed as a handout? | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Lol because some told you.
Sums it up really doesn't it
Seriously mate? I've known these people pretty much all my life, grew up with them. I know what they do.
I didnt begrudge them not paying what they should all those years, more fool the taxman for not finding out.
But now when we ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER! clearly we are not though right?
You started a thread stating the self employed shouldn't get hand outs because according to you, the people you know avoid or don't pay tax.
Its all related. If there are handouts, I think it should apply to all or none.
It seems unbalanced to me that rhe group of people that are getting handouts are the ones that try every trick to avoid or not pay tax.
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever I take it they are only paid in cash then
No of course not, but they declare a fraction of what they actually earn. Skim a bit off the top if you like.
This isn't the issue though.
Its more why they get the handouts while employees who are made redundant do not by the same rules.
what about redundancy payments could that not be classed as a handout?"No, because firm funded redundancy are not at the tax payers expense | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however "These people are my friends, who I have known since childhood. Its not speculation. I rip them about this too, and they know my views, lol,it just seems unbalanced to me. But they are still my friends and will continue to be. I just dont understand why the govt is funding them and not everyone. | |||
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"yea they made that choice to try and get further on in life.not being funny mate your coming across as jelous of others who may be getting more than yourself.and dont forget these self employed are having to wait months for any money with nothing coming in wheras us employees have been getting our wages every month like normal.life aint fair mate.anyway once furlough drops to 60% mist will go back to work if they can.and if these shop keepers you talk of are ripping the tax man off then bertie them up if it makes you feel better" Its not about being jealous of an individual, I dont understand why the govt is bailing them out and not all. And actually, some of them got their lump sums over a month ago. | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however
These people are my friends, who I have known since childhood. Its not speculation. I rip them about this too, and they know my views, lol,it just seems unbalanced to me.
But they are still my friends and will continue to be.
I just dont understand why the govt is funding them and not everyone.
"Friends tell lies too. As I say you cannot produce any tangible evidence to back up your original post | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however
These people are my friends, who I have known since childhood. Its not speculation. I rip them about this too, and they know my views, lol,it just seems unbalanced to me.
But they are still my friends and will continue to be.
I just dont understand why the govt is funding them and not everyone.
Friends tell lies too. As I say you cannot produce any tangible evidence to back up your original post "I'm beggining to like you, you just made me chuckle. | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however
These people are my friends, who I have known since childhood. Its not speculation. I rip them about this too, and they know my views, lol,it just seems unbalanced to me.
But they are still my friends and will continue to be.
I just dont understand why the govt is funding them and not everyone.
Friends tell lies too. As I say you cannot produce any tangible evidence to back up your original post "Big Dave at the corner shop told him so it must be true. | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march?" If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing?" You are what I'd call an idiot. And that's being polite  | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. All your arguement seems to be based on is what you've been told, and your own speculation, without being able to produce one single piece of evidence to back them up however
These people are my friends, who I have known since childhood. Its not speculation. I rip them about this too, and they know my views, lol,it just seems unbalanced to me.
But they are still my friends and will continue to be.
I just dont understand why the govt is funding them and not everyone.
Friends tell lies too. As I say you cannot produce any tangible evidence to back up your original post
Big Dave at the corner shop told him so it must be true. "I dont want it to turn into a taking the piss thread. Its a question I have, and no one yet has put me straight as to the logic amd justification behind it. As I said at the start, happy to be enlightened | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? You are what I'd call an idiot. And that's being polite "Ok, Mr polite. I dont see why you have to be rude, but please tell me what I am missing. | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed?" as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them | |||
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"prob the same reasin i getting paid to do nothing at the mo.and whos to say if there shops will re open.again about the redundancy if u get laid off go sign on until u find another job bit of money and ya rent and council tax paid.is what i will be doing if i get laid off" Their shops will reopen, because they told me exactly the day they will do it. As I said, they have been open at least 2 days a week throughout this whole thing and still got the govt money. Unemployment benefit is no where near what the self employed handouts are | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them " Its not about grassing them up. I want to understand the reasoning behing giving handouts to self employed and not all. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever"Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them Its not about grassing them up. I want to understand the reasoning behing giving handouts to self e mployed and not all. " Maybe the government looked at the bigger picture and thought if we don’t help out people are going to end up homeless and eventually they would have to house them give them benefits etc etc so perhaps by helping them out it may just stop that I’m expecting my contributions to go up I don’t expect it to be free money or a handout but as I’ve stated many times it won’t bother me paying a little more back to get the country back on its feet | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked "Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt"interesting you say still working I assume they are not doing it for free ? | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them Its not about grassing them up. I want to understand the reasoning behing giving handouts to self e mployed and not all. Maybe the government looked at the bigger picture and thought if we don’t help out people are going to end up homeless and eventually they would have to house them give them benefits etc etc so perhaps by helping them out it may just stop that I’m expecting my contributions to go up I don’t expect it to be free money or a handout but as I’ve stated many times it won’t bother me paying a little more back to get the country back on its feet " Thats fine, but why only the self employed? Oh especially the self employed who have multiple properties around the world, who are clearly very well off and dont even need the handout, but of course very happy to take it. Again, I dont begrudge them, I dont understand the govts logic to this | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt interesting you say still working I assume they are not doing it for free ?"Of course not. We employees are still getting paid, but have to work. Shop owners are not working, getting handouts, and will open and go back to their shops come mid June. | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them Its not about grassing them up. I want to understand the reasoning behing giving handouts to self e mployed and not all. Maybe the government looked at the bigger picture and thought if we don’t help out people are going to end up homeless and eventually they would have to house them give them benefits etc etc so perhaps by helping them out it may just stop that I’m expecting my contributions to go up I don’t expect it to be free money or a handout but as I’ve stated many times it won’t bother me paying a little more back to get the country back on its feet Thats fine, but why only the self employed? Oh especially the self employed who have multiple properties around the world, who are clearly very well off and dont even need the handout, but of course very happy to take it. Again, I dont begrudge them, I dont understand the govts logic to this" where’s the furlough money coming from? | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? as people have said unfortunately you get people who abuse the system maybe you should tip hmrc of about them as you obviously have a problem with them Its not about grassing them up. I want to understand the reasoning behing giving handouts to self e mployed and not all. Maybe the government looked at the bigger picture and thought if we don’t help out people are going to end up homeless and eventually they would have to house them give them benefits etc etc so perhaps by helping them out it may just stop that I’m expecting my contributions to go up I don’t expect it to be free money or a handout but as I’ve stated many times it won’t bother me paying a little more back to get the country back on its feet Thats fine, but why only the self employed? Oh especially the self employed who have multiple properties around the world, who are clearly very well off and dont even need the handout, but of course very happy to take it. Again, I dont begrudge them, I dont understand the govts logic to this" And you know this for a fact or because the guy in the cornershop told you? You don't begrudge them yet you are moaning about it on a swinger site. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt"So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc."Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now. Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts? | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
"You can still claim for unemployment if you were made unemployed due to covid. The guidlines were put in place specifically for this. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt interesting you say still working I assume they are not doing it for free ?
Of course not. We employees are still getting paid, but have to work.
Shop owners are not working, getting handouts, and will open and go back to their shops come mid June.
"im an employee and i getting paid to sit on my arse at the mo.ahh i get it now your still having to go in and have got the hump about it.look at it this way mate u got more chance of still having a job after all off this than a lot of us sitting on our arses watching netflix have | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
"why shouldn’t they should we get no help at all bearing in mind we don’t get redundancy holiday pay sick pay yes it’s our choice to be self employed so we don’t expect holiday and sick pay but surely we are entitled to something as we don’t get redundancy pay | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
"Because the government don’t want small business and the self employed to go under. My question would be this, why are people being made redundant when they could be furloughed instead? | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
why shouldn’t they should we get no help at all bearing in mind we don’t get redundancy holiday pay sick pay yes it’s our choice to be self employed so we don’t expect holiday and sick pay but surely we are entitled to something as we don’t get redundancy pay "You dont get redundancy, holiday or sick pay in normal times, again personal choice. And lets be clear, a shop owner being told to close for a few months AND getting paid to do so, is nothing like, or nowhere even near compareable to redundancy. | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
Because the government don’t want small business and the self employed to go under. My question would be this, why are people being made redundant when they could be furloughed instead? "Ok, so it seems unbalanced that they support those who knew the risks and gambled, and not the rest who lose their jobs through no fault of their own Your question is a good one, good point. I guess firms are using this as an excuse to trim costs, but those poor workers are out of pocket whereas self employed folks get the handouts | |||
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
No its not the same rules.
Why not?
These people have never paid the appropriate tax, and now they get paid for nothing from the correct taxes that I pay and will continue to pay.
This is purely based on your own speculation and not on fact.
Its 100% fact because they tell me they dont declare their real incomes, ever
Why would they tell you that? If they did, maybe it was said in jest to wind you up, looks like it worked
Mate, these are people I have grown up with. I know what they do. Its not so much the tax thing, its the fact that the govt is now paying them for nowt, while employees are still working, harder even from home, and when made redundant, get no such handout from the govt
So, because one shop owner doesn’t pay tax then none of the others do either? The government have forced them to close their shops, they didn’t do it through choice to ‘sit on their arses’. I feel sorry for people who have been made redundant but that is down to each individual company wether they receive redundancy money etc.
Ok, let me try to be clear. I'm not saying all shop owners dont pay the right tax. In fact, forget the tax issue for now.
Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts?
Because the government don’t want small business and the self employed to go under. My question would be this, why are people being made redundant when they could be furloughed instead?
Ok, so it seems unbalanced that they support those who knew the risks and gambled, and not the rest who lose their jobs through no fault of their own
Your question is a good one, good point. I guess firms are using this as an excuse to trim costs, but those poor workers are out of pocket whereas self employed folks get the handouts"and I was told to stop working through no fault of my own and why shouldn’t I be offered any help and btw people who aren’t self employed are getting help either furlough or benefits why have you got a problem with what self employed people are getting? | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " Being in the retail trade for 40 yrs .paid Vat ...and other taxes.. the money paid out is only a portion of those taxes paid in ...being shut out of your business through not fault of your own is no thrill...picking up the pieces after will be a big problem for shops etc ....any monies recently received do not compensate for business lost over the last months ..but you would not understand as you dont have a business and no idea !! | |||
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"Wow. I’ve seen people with agendas but wow. I have 3 shops that I was forced to close through no fault of my own. I still have to pay rents, utilities and any other miscellaneous overheads to keep the properties for when we can return. I have 11 staff with families to feed and mortgages to pay. They are all on the furlough scheme with me making their salaries whole so that they are not out of pocket. The grant that I received will fortunately pay the overhead while we are closed and maybe offset some of the costs of the stocks that will have to be disposed of due to going out of date and maybe cover the fact that when we reopen turnover is going to be ridiculously slow to recover. I’m quite fortunate that I haven’t put myself on furlough, even though I could, as making sure that the funds are there to keep paying the salaries of the staff that I employ. Hopefully some sort of recovery to normal ish levels will mean that I shouldn’t have to lay off or make redundant any staff. Without the schemes that the government rolled out there would be 11 people out of work as not doing so with no return date would not only be financial suicide but also ruinous financially for me personally. I will receive no income, realistically, for the next twelve months to protect the staff and my businesses which is fine and the picture will be similar for most self employed people and employers but they are the breaks that go with being self employed. The government had to do this to try and protect employees as the cost would be greater should they be laid off and or made redundant in the middle of an economic downturn. There will be hundreds of thousands of people who will not be returning to work when all of this ends and that’s a sad truth. Be grateful for what you have as many will have had and are soon to have not. Good luck and stay safe everyone. " | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " I believe that the government's financial help is supposed to stop businesses from going bust whilst they are legally prohibited from working. The alternative would be many more claiming universal credit, which would obviously also be a government hand-out. Cal | |||
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"Wow. I’ve seen people with agendas but wow. I have 3 shops that I was forced to close through no fault of my own. I still have to pay rents, utilities and any other miscellaneous overheads to keep the properties for when we can return. I have 11 staff with families to feed and mortgages to pay. They are all on the furlough scheme with me making their salaries whole so that they are not out of pocket. The grant that I received will fortunately pay the overhead while we are closed and maybe offset some of the costs of the stocks that will have to be disposed of due to going out of date and maybe cover the fact that when we reopen turnover is going to be ridiculously slow to recover. I’m quite fortunate that I haven’t put myself on furlough, even though I could, as making sure that the funds are there to keep paying the salaries of the staff that I employ. Hopefully some sort of recovery to normal ish levels will mean that I shouldn’t have to lay off or make redundant any staff. Without the schemes that the government rolled out there would be 11 people out of work as not doing so with no return date would not only be financial suicide but also ruinous financially for me personally. I will receive no income, realistically, for the next twelve months to protect the staff and my businesses which is fine and the picture will be similar for most self employed people and employers but they are the breaks that go with being self employed. The government had to do this to try and protect employees as the cost would be greater should they be laid off and or made redundant in the middle of an economic downturn. There will be hundreds of thousands of people who will not be returning to work when all of this ends and that’s a sad truth. Be grateful for what you have as many will have had and are soon to have not. Good luck and stay safe everyone. " Thanks for this. I didnt appreciate the details of what you have mentioned, most notably your employees, but they get 80% through the furlough scheme right? Its your choice to top up, and good for you for doing that. Your other points make sense to me, as to why these handouts are being given to the self employed. But to have nothing for the employee who is made redundant and left with statutory, is still unbalanced in my view | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed?" i dont understand the people calling him a liar tbh ... he clearly is talking from personal experience of someone he knows well ... its not made up ... however OP the mistake you are making is assuming your friends experience represents everyone self employed , a huge number of them have had nothing at all or very little because of the way they choose to remove their income from their company you are also comparing apples with oranges ... redundancy with temporary closing their business is not the same thing ... redundancy would be similar to their business going under entirely the grants being given are similar to furlough which people who are employed and not working at the moment are also entitled to ... so its very much more along the lines of same rules for everyone than you appear to think it is (i know some people have fell through the net before i get jumped on but point to op is the same) | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? i dont understand the people calling him a liar tbh ... he clearly is talking from personal experience of someone he knows well ... its not made up ... however OP the mistake you are making is assuming your friends experience represents everyone self employed , a huge number of them have had nothing at all or very little because of the way they choose to remove their income from their company you are also comparing apples with oranges ... redundancy with temporary closing their business is not the same thing ... redundancy would be similar to their business going under entirely the grants being given are similar to furlough which people who are employed and not working at the moment are also entitled to ... so its very much more along the lines of same rules for everyone than you appear to think it is (i know some people have fell through the net before i get jumped on but point to op is the same) " Thank you, and I understand your analogy, but dont necessarily agree with it. The people I know, yes, my friends, have got the bailout, still opened their business a couple of times a week, done sod all work, and will open their doors full on in mid June. So again, if we bail out people who have chosen to take a risk, then why not offer the same to people who are made redundant on statutory, which we now both agree is a worse situation than furlough | |||
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"they are funding everyone or have you not had any wages since march? If I get made redundant, will the govt give me a handout? To the same rules as the self employed? Their shops having to close is the same as being made redundant. Actually its not, because they will reopen their shops, wheres the likes of me will need to find a new job. So how come they get paid for doing nothing while their shops are closed? i dont understand the people calling him a liar tbh ... he clearly is talking from personal experience of someone he knows well ... its not made up ... however OP the mistake you are making is assuming your friends experience represents everyone self employed , a huge number of them have had nothing at all or very little because of the way they choose to remove their income from their company you are also comparing apples with oranges ... redundancy with temporary closing their business is not the same thing ... redundancy would be similar to their business going under entirely the grants being given are similar to furlough which people who are employed and not working at the moment are also entitled to ... so its very much more along the lines of same rules for everyone than you appear to think it is (i know some people have fell through the net before i get jumped on but point to op is the same) Thank you, and I understand your analogy, but dont necessarily agree with it. The people I know, yes, my friends, have got the bailout, still opened their business a couple of times a week, done sod all work, and will open their doors full on in mid June. So again, if we bail out people who have chosen to take a risk, then why not offer the same to people who are made redundant on statutory, which we now both agree is a worse situation than furlough" how can they have done sod all work and opened a few days a week it has to be one or the other employed people have been given a bail out, furlough is their bail out to help avoid redundancy yes redundancy is worse , its out of work entirely ... which is why its not comparable with your friends having to close short term both self employed grants and furlough are for the same purpose ... to keep people in employment you cant achieve that aim by giving someone redundant a handout as by very nature they are already unemployed | |||
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"Wow. I’ve seen people with agendas but wow. I have 3 shops that I was forced to close through no fault of my own. I still have to pay rents, utilities and any other miscellaneous overheads to keep the properties for when we can return. I have 11 staff with families to feed and mortgages to pay. They are all on the furlough scheme with me making their salaries whole so that they are not out of pocket. The grant that I received will fortunately pay the overhead while we are closed and maybe offset some of the costs of the stocks that will have to be disposed of due to going out of date and maybe cover the fact that when we reopen turnover is going to be ridiculously slow to recover. I’m quite fortunate that I haven’t put myself on furlough, even though I could, as making sure that the funds are there to keep paying the salaries of the staff that I employ. Hopefully some sort of recovery to normal ish levels will mean that I shouldn’t have to lay off or make redundant any staff. Without the schemes that the government rolled out there would be 11 people out of work as not doing so with no return date would not only be financial suicide but also ruinous financially for me personally. I will receive no income, realistically, for the next twelve months to protect the staff and my businesses which is fine and the picture will be similar for most self employed people and employers but they are the breaks that go with being self employed. The government had to do this to try and protect employees as the cost would be greater should they be laid off and or made redundant in the middle of an economic downturn. There will be hundreds of thousands of people who will not be returning to work when all of this ends and that’s a sad truth. Be grateful for what you have as many will have had and are soon to have not. Good luck and stay safe everyone. Thanks for this. I didnt appreciate the details of what you have mentioned, most notably your employees, but they get 80% through the furlough scheme right? Its your choice to top up, and good for you for doing that. Your other points make sense to me, as to why these handouts are being given to the self employed. But to have nothing for the employee who is made redundant and left with statutory, is still unbalanced in my view" Yes I receive 80% of their normal salary in furlough which I then top up to their normal salary. I still have to pay the paye side of things and pension contributions whilst receiving no income from the business whatsoever. The handouts for being made redundant or laid off are universal credit which varies dependant on your circumstances. If my business goes bust I am liable for any outstanding debts and if these means having to seize assets to cover they will. Self employed is a minefield with big risks, sometimes big rewards, but risks nonetheless. This isn’t a woe look at me but I have had to sell assets to put in to my business to ensure that we are able to see the other side of this and not have put any more pressure on the people I employ. It’s a sacrifice to my lifestyle and income but one I’m prepared to take to protect them and their families. There may even come a point where I will have to become an employee for someone else to help fund this. If this is what I have to do I will do it. We certainly aren’t receiving something that we are not entitled to. There are many people sat at home receiving full pay or at a minimum 80% that are doing no work whatsoever not just self employed or shop owners. The rules were applied to protect everyone in the country and the economy. | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing?" Jesus. You can't be serious. In that case, why should the emoyed get hand outs? We all contribute to the economy and pay our taxes. You really have no idea how much work goes into being self employed OP. Try researching it before you make stupid assumptions. | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed?" They do. It's called universal credit. Look it up. | |||
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As for your shop keepers, they won't be self employed as their shop will be a business and they would have furloughed themselves and therefore still getting an income. | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? They chose to take the risk and be self employed, why pay them money for nothing? Where are you getting this free money idea from? From the fact that they tell me they got their government grants come through, which they dont need to pay back. And its not about grassing them up either. I just dont understand why people who took the risk to be self employed now get bailed out by the govt. If there are handouts, then it should apply to ALL. If the employed lose their jobs because of covid redundancies, they should also get 3 months govt funded pay. Why only the self employed? I was under the impression that if you didn’t declare earnings to the taxman there wouldn’t be much of a handout. It’s all average earnings of what you say you have earned or declared to HMRC Correct, so their handout is based on what they declared over the years, which is far less than they should have, but still enough for a decent handout. My point is, why do the self employed only get a handout?" Why??? Really | |||
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"Agree with both points, and there are many who have paid their share of tax, thats whatbit should be, but they still took the risk to be self emploted, so why get free money when the chips are down? I know people who have had shops for over 30 years,and never declared their correct income, and payed a pittance of what I have paid over the years. Now these same folks are doing sod all, sunning themselves in their gardens, in their million plus houses, (cos of the little tax theybpaid over the years) whilst getting government grants to do so, why? ?" They would only be getting a grant for what they have declared on their tax return. So if that wasn't much, they won't get much I am not sure how anyone else would know what people declare on their tax return though, unless you mean people are being stupid by telling everyone | |||
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"people who get made redundent will get redudancy why would the gov give them more money on top of that? i been off since 25th march and its looking more and more ikley i wont be going back.until airports go back to normal and they start opening the stores in them. then we dont have any stores open.at the mo you have boots the chemist open and that is it My point exactly. Redundancy policies are different fpr each firm. Most firms try to get away with statutory which is a pittance,and nowhere near enough in these times until someone finds another job. Again, why only the self employed and not for all?" Because they have been asked not to work, the Government is trying to keep people from going under during this mess so why there is help | |||
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" Why should the self employed only get govt handouts, yet employees who are made redundant do not get the same govt handouts? " Being made redundant by your firm is not the same thing. You would need to see what redundancy package is in please If you wasn't being made redundant then you would be furloughed for a few months, which is what you keep calling a free handout from the Government. Self employed people get a grant for three months only up to now | |||
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"I am finding it really distasteful with all this, this could all end up with a whole load of jobs being lost for lots of people, I doubt if they will think they were lucky at all We also have to remember that people were told not to work unless key workers or you can do it from home, it wasn't a choice. " Just this There have been so many disparaging remarks posted concerning those of us that have been furloughed. I have worked all my life and being furloughed through no choice of my own gives me a sense of 'uselessness' in a way. Will I have a job to go back to? Who knows but I also have the prospect at my age I am unlikely to get another job for some time in the industry I have been in for over 30 years (P.C.V. Driver) | |||
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"OP how do you feel about those that choose to be unemployed and are funded all the time? (And I am no way putting everyone unemployed in this category)" Thats a whole different category which can go into many different topics, reasons and conversations. Tbh, I'm indifferent to it because in normal times, I have made my choice and they have made theirs. But in these times, I dont think the govt is balancing the help it is providing | |||
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"Next door to me is a self employed hairdresser her shop was struggling to make any money before the lockdown she has has just over 20 grand in loans an Grant's she has decorated her home an had her garden landscaped with the money she got not used a penny on the business as she as done a deal with her landlord to not pay rent till the shop reopens I feel sorry for self employed as my husband is self employed an can't receive a penny as he only started his business last September an we are now living on savings " The money that self employed people get is based on their profit, it doesn't include money for paying business costs. The loans will obviously have to be paid back. Cal | |||
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"Next door to me is a self employed hairdresser her shop was struggling to make any money before the lockdown she has has just over 20 grand in loans an Grant's she has decorated her home an had her garden landscaped with the money she got not used a penny on the business as she as done a deal with her landlord to not pay rent till the shop reopens I feel sorry for self employed as my husband is self employed an can't receive a penny as he only started his business last September an we are now living on savings The money that self employed people get is based on their profit, it doesn't include money for paying business costs. The loans will obviously have to be paid back. Cal" I know it will have to be paid back but as you were saying it's based on profit how does a business that is making no profit before lockdown then able to receive just over 20 grand in loans an grants | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. " If they aren't declaring their real income then logically they're getting hit in the nuts over it now as they'll have only got paid 80% of the buttons that they did declare...
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"Why shouldn’t self employed people get help ? I was told to stop working as it’s not essential I’m up to date with my ni contributions and vat etc why shouldn’t I be entitled to help and no I don’t feel guilty for taking my cash whilst sat at home on my arse watching Netflix and looking on the fab forums
Ok. So if the self employed get help, then so should the employed when made redundant to the same rules as self employed.
"The employed DO get help, provided the company that employs them puts them on furlough if they can't work from home. If YOUR company hasn't put you on furlough then that's hardly the government's fault now is it? Please redirect your beef to your boss. If your job is one that CAN be done from home, then where's the problem? You're still getting kept safe from this pesky virus. As I work in the temporary structures industry, I'd love you to show me exactly how I could possibly be working and exactly where I am to throw up a building that thousands are meant to pack into as I usually do. Since being on stand by for the 5 day build of Nightingale Jersey there's been sweet nowt and will be for some time. Them's the breaks my friend. The coronavirus does not respect one's employment status sadly. B | |||
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"rolling my eyes "
All the way through this after the first few replies.. ("don't feed the troll") | |||
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"Why should self employed people get govt handouts while folks who work for an employer have to continue to graft harder by working from home? Shop keepers who never declared their real income due to cash in hand, are getting grants to sit on their arses for 3 months, and the burden will be payed in the long term by employees who get paid through PAYE, while shopkeepers will return to their undeclaring ways when lockdown ends. If they aren't declaring their real income then logically they're getting hit in the nuts over it now as they'll have only got paid 80% of the buttons that they did declare...
B"Absolutely, those who cook their books so as not to pay true tax amount, shot in foot , can’t have cake & eat it shall we say | |||
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"I am finding it really distasteful with all this, this could all end up with a whole load of jobs being lost for lots of people, I doubt if they will think they were lucky at all We also have to remember that people were told not to work unless key workers or you can do it from home, it wasn't a choice. " That’s not correct. The government never said don’t work unless you are a key worker OR can work from home. | |||
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