FabSwingers.com forum: Human Rights and Freedom

By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn."
Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Tbh if they can't understand that they can go out and as long as they abide by social distances etc they are ok then yeah fine the feckers..

Same as others having family parties, raves and the like..

Some are stupid and others just want to kick off and play the victim of the nasty government..

Oik them off to North Korea for a month and see how that compares..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn.Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights. "

Totally but use the noggin and stand two metres apart..

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Totally agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Totally but use the noggin and stand two metres apart..

"
2 metres is a guideline not law, the police can advise only.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ive seen footage of the protesters in glasgow

some were there for the reasons you describe but there seemed to be a wide range of reasons many of which were 5g conspiracies, some just pissed off they hadnt seen their grandkids, some believing the government is withholding information from them (including tom hanks being killed by lethal injection inaustralia) and some sadly i think were just mentally ill people ranting about how irn bru is the cure for covid because the recipe included quinine , and another on about a woman from argentina who was had multiple orgasms then was possessed by i think nazi ghosts and its all down to the church or the army ... i might have misunderstood, it was hard to follow

while i understand being effectively locked up wont have helped these peoples mental health, i dont think loosening restrictions and putting people at higher risks off the back of their bizarre protest is a good idea

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Tbh if they can't understand that they can go out and as long as they abide by social distances etc they are ok then yeah fine the feckers..

Same as others having family parties, raves and the like..

Some are stupid and others just want to kick off and play the victim of the nasty government..

Oik them off to North Korea for a month and see how that compares.. "

Yes I agree, if they'd demonstrated whilst maintaining distancing then I'd have been more sympathetic to their protest.

But as it was they were putting each other at risk and the police officers who were tasked with supervising the protest.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights. "

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?"

If you start doing that , then we're heading down a bad path, it will lead to making protests against government illegal, and what other rights will be lost once we start doing this ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?"

probably not no because who decides its safe or unsafe and you get in a scenario where you cannot protest your disagreement with how safe it is because they have told you its not safe to protest

i do think it would have been fair for the police to be able to enforce them to mark out 2m on the ground though and distance during the protest

if other people have previously been fined for meeting up in groups during lockdown (non protest related) then i dont see why none of the rules were enforceable here

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?

If you start doing that , then we're heading down a bad path, it will lead to making protests against government illegal, and what other rights will be lost once we start doing this ?"

Yes I understand the principle, I've done enough protesting in my time!

But I can't think of an example where the act in itself created an environment that promotes the issue that the state is trying to avoid by restricting free association.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?"

If the protest was organised by people who truly believe that their freedom has been restricted (even though it really hasn't) then I'd be sympathetic but, as the organiser was the woman who was behind the old BNP, I question the motives and feel it was to trouble cause rather than truly demonstrate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The right to protest does not give them the right to risk the safety or property of others. Protest within the boundaries under law and there would be no issue. Despite what some protesters think, you do not have the right to unfettered free speech in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?"
The state can always find a reason to stop people protesting, seen them all health and safety, stopping buiness, putting police under pressure. Now they are using fear sorry but if they want to we must respect their rights, that's democracy with all its faults.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"probably not no because who decides its safe or unsafe and you get in a scenario where you cannot protest your disagreement with how safe it is because they have told you its not safe to protest

i do think it would have been fair for the police to be able to enforce them to mark out 2m on the ground though and distance during the protest

if other people have previously been fined for meeting up in groups during lockdown (non protest related) then i dont see why none of the rules were enforceable here "
I totally agree and Couple in Lancashire made the point that if the protestors had maintained social distancing there may not have been an issue, the trouble is they were challenging that notion in itself as a restriction of association.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" but, as the organiser was the woman who was behind the old BNP, I question the motives and feel it was to trouble cause rather than truly demonstrate."

Really? I didn't know that.

If it's true it becomes a rather unholy alliance between the left, right and others who don't believe the virus is a 'thing'!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?

The rent a mob crowd will always hijack a 'cause' just for the chance to aggravate..

Usually at the back when it gets tasty mind..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesnt matter if they are upset, it is not just all about them, we are all living in challenging times and we are all in this together, there should be a law to not beable to have protests during this time by big gatherings, they are putting everyone else at risk, as to us who follow the law to the letter, they should get some kind of sentence cos of it.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It doesnt matter if they are upset, it is not just all about them, we are all living in challenging times and we are all in this together, there should be a law to not beable to have protests during this time by big gatherings, they are putting everyone else at risk, as to us who follow the law to the letter, they should get some kind of sentence cos of it."

Therein lies a slippery slope shag, by all means protest but do so within the guidance etc..

They were never going to do so as they just wanted it to kick off which is not on in the current situation..

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But this is my point, should the right of protest be denied when it's particularly unsafe to do so?The state can always find a reason to stop people protesting, seen them all health and safety, stopping buiness, putting police under pressure. Now they are using fear sorry but if they want to we must respect their rights, that's democracy with all its faults. "

But the protest was allowed to go ahead, as far as I could see the police only intervened when the distancing rules were infringed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" but, as the organiser was the woman who was behind the old BNP, I question the motives and feel it was to trouble cause rather than truly demonstrate.

Really? I didn't know that.

If it's true it becomes a rather unholy alliance between the left, right and others who don't believe the virus is a 'thing'!"

i think thats exactly what it was

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" but, as the organiser was the woman who was behind the old BNP, I question the motives and feel it was to trouble cause rather than truly demonstrate.

Really? I didn't know that.

If it's true it becomes a rather unholy alliance between the left, right and others who don't believe the virus is a 'thing'!"

The organisation that printed the posters is involved with Jayda Fransen, the former deputy leader of Britain First, the far right political (allegedly) party.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

Follow the law to the letter? I take it you don't drive a vehicle, I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Therein lies a slippery slope shag, by all means protest but do so within the guidance etc..

They were never going to do so as they just wanted it to kick off which is not on in the current situation.. "
That is right and the same thing happened in madrid on that feminist march as well, big gatherings witch wasnt allowed back then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But the protest was allowed to go ahead, as far as I could see the police only intervened when the distancing rules were infringed."
You can't be arrested of breaking a guideline, 2 metres is not law the law courts have order all fines to be returned as the police had no right to issue them.

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By *perfectpair5050Couple
over a year ago

marlbourgh

Totally stupid people that can’t see the common sense in keeping 2 m apart it wouldn’t matter what the government done or said they’d find something to protest about as for their human right it’s my human right to not to catch a disease of the stupid people

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"law courts have order all fines to be returned as the police had no right to issue them."

Not quite true:

All those involving: Screening and Assessment (44) were all wrong.

14,244 fines in total.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dozens-wrongly-charged-under-lockdown-laws-cps-says-11988865

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve never quite got why some people feel they have the right to do whatever they want, regardless of how it affects other people. It smacks of exceptionalism and ignorance.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I totally agree with the protesters. I would like to see the lot of them protest this winter at the signs that say, 'Danger - Thin Ice'. They could invoke their freedoms and all march into the centre of the lake...

That will show the Government...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Follow the law to the letter? I take it you don't drive a vehicle, I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more? "
That is right I dont have a car as I am being green, they could implement more laws to social distacing tho.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

But the protest was allowed to go ahead, as far as I could see the police only intervened when the distancing rules were infringed.You can't be arrested of breaking a guideline, 2 metres is not law the law courts have order all fines to be returned as the police had no right to issue them."

I don't know what the grounds were for arrest yesterday, but the police can intervene and order a dispersal of groups, arresting those who don't comply.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more? "

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

So you have never driven a vehicle, or rode a bicycle, everybody breaks the law in one way or another, 31 mph in a 30 zone, cyclists thinking traffic lights dont apply to them, buying alcohol underage, really? but if you have never broken the law then you are obviously the exception, wow.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life."

Really, how many people died at the protest?

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By *arkb73Man
over a year ago

Cheshire/Staffs

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life."

There really isn’t - it’s about keeping death numbers under control.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Totally but use the noggin and stand two metres apart..

2 metres is a guideline not law, the police can advise only. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet another case of coppying America, i woundered how long it would be before protesters took to English streets when they saw the news from accross the pond!

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?"

Perhaps you're unaware of the proliferation mechanisms used by this particular virus?

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?

Perhaps you're unaware of the proliferation mechanisms used by this particular virus?"

I'm one of the 1 1/2 million that received a letter from the NHS to tell us that this virus can and probably would kill me, so please tell me what I dont understand.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?

Perhaps you're unaware of the proliferation mechanisms used by this particular virus?

I'm one of the 1 1/2 million that received a letter from the NHS to tell us that this virus can and probably would kill me, so please tell me what I dont understand."

I was responding, in kind, to your fatuous question asking how many people died at the protest.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?

Perhaps you're unaware of the proliferation mechanisms used by this particular virus?

I'm one of the 1 1/2 million that received a letter from the NHS to tell us that this virus can and probably would kill me, so please tell me what I dont understand.

I was responding, in kind, to your fatuous question asking how many people died at the protest."

It was hardly silly or pointless, the police have powers to deal with a threat to human life, a protest is hardly that, afterall it wasnt ISIS that were protesting, I think the government has enough power and handing them even more is ridiculous, do you want a country like China or North Korea, you could always apply to emigrate, the few "rights" we have should be protected rather than just given away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?

Perhaps you're unaware of the proliferation mechanisms used by this particular virus?

I'm one of the 1 1/2 million that received a letter from the NHS to tell us that this virus can and probably would kill me, so please tell me what I dont understand.

I was responding, in kind, to your fatuous question asking how many people died at the protest.

i think this is a bit harsh , opening a dialogue on peoples opinions isnt really the same as wanting to live in north korea

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I totally agree with the protesters. I would like to see the lot of them protest this winter at the signs that say, 'Danger - Thin Ice'. They could invoke their freedoms and all march into the centre of the lake...

That will show the Government..."

Tom, we agree again..

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn."
I gree with you 100% thise protestors are morons in my eyes and should b arrested they do not deserve human rights

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn.I gree with you 100% thise protestors are morons in my eyes and should b arrested they do not deserve human rights"

Dear me.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

" i think this is a bit harsh , opening a dialogue on peoples opinions isnt really the same as wanting to live in north korea "

Well if you want to give all "rights" away, then I really dont see a difference, after all the very rights you want to give the government are the ones that china and North Korea all ready have control over. Should our "rights" be given away freely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't bother with fines that the CPS throw out anyway. Give them an unprotected tour of some covid wards and then they can tell all their like minded mates it's all a hoax.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Think about what you've just written Emma as there are others that would have many on sites like this also licked up just for being different..

Not something we should hanker for in my opinion..

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Don't bother with fines that the CPS throw out anyway. Give them an unprotected tour of some covid wards and then they can tell all their like minded mates it's all a hoax."
Yes but when they get out they will not keep distance!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Don't bother with fines that the CPS throw out anyway. Give them an unprotected tour of some covid wards and then they can tell all their like minded mates it's all a hoax."

Strewth

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

I agree that the protesters are stupid, but there is no law against stupidity, but taking away rights, is not the way forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Blimey. Thankfully we're not living in a totalitarian fascist state, so that won't happen.

I tend to air more with the people suggesting that, although it's not wise to protest at the moment, it is really important that we are able to do so and that we have the right to express dissent in a peaceful way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't bother with fines that the CPS throw out anyway. Give them an unprotected tour of some covid wards and then they can tell all their like minded mates it's all a hoax.Yes but when they get out they will not keep distance!"

Emma have you stopped spitting on people you disagree with, for the duration of the pandemic at least?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So people are saying they should be arrested for putting lives in danger. Not long ago a load of missfits put a boat in the middle of London stopping traffic so couldn't get to hospital, but that was ok because it was for the planet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So people are saying they should be arrested for putting lives in danger. Not long ago a load of missfits put a boat in the middle of London stopping traffic so couldn't get to hospital, but that was ok because it was for the planet. "

Seems clear to me. If people protest in an illegal way, or endanger lives. They're in the wrong.

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By *limmatureguyMan
over a year ago

Tonbridge

So if the government decided to ration food for the overweight to save lives would that be a curtailment of freedom or perfectly acceptable?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

People who screw the country by not paying taxes are revered as wealth creators

People who are worried we are killing the planet are misfits.

What a strange age we live in.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So if the government decided to ration food for the overweight to save lives would that be a curtailment of freedom or perfectly acceptable?"

If being overweight was a contagious disease that killed people within two weeks of 'catching it' and in the meantime infected and killed health workers who were trying to help victims I'd accept we were living in extreme circumstances and expect the government to create and implement a policy which reduced and controlled the risk factors which increase obesity.

I spent the best part of my student days involved in activism and peaceful protest, but the current situation necessitates a universal response to a universal disease which as yet still has no cure.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Blimey. Thankfully we're not living in a totalitarian fascist state, so that won't happen.

I totally agree, provided it's possible to protest without increasing the risk of spreading the virus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People who screw the country by not paying taxes are revered as wealth creators

People who are worried we are killing the planet are misfits.

What a strange age we live in."
saying they are saving the planet turn up in their land rovers and took 2 days cleaning up the mess left behind. But the left love them.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

People who screw the country by not paying taxes are revered as wealth creators

People who are worried we are killing the planet are misfits.

What a strange age we live in.saying they are saving the planet turn up in their land rovers and took 2 days cleaning up the mess left behind. But the left love them. "

Everyone who protested had a land rover?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People who screw the country by not paying taxes are revered as wealth creators

People who are worried we are killing the planet are misfits.

What a strange age we live in.saying they are saving the planet turn up in their land rovers and took 2 days cleaning up the mess left behind. But the left love them. "

Why do you assume only the left understand climate change? People from all over the political spectrum know what's going on.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I agree that the protesters are stupid, but there is no law against stupidity, but taking away rights, is not the way forward."

I don't disagree, the protestors were exercising their right to protest, good on them.

However many chose to do so in a way which is currently proscribed because of the risk of spreading the virus.

I work in the NHS (albeit not directly on the covid frontline), me and my colleagues are placing ourselves at risk to help people who are ill. I'm afraid and my colleagues are afraid to go to work.

We all want a rapid end to this situation so we can all get back to congregating how we want, whether that be sitting in the pub, going to a concert or protesting on the streets of London

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn."

Burn them burn them , ( shaking a pitchfork)

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Well the police dispersal powers pre-date the covid crisis so there's been no extension of their authority in that sense (my god I never thought there'd come a time when I was defending police powers!).

Restrict the spread of the virus by utilising the current measures appears to be effective, therefore my view is that large groups ignoring social distancing should be dispersed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One minute people complain about their freedom and the next breath they complain about the death toll. I just can't understand the logic.

I feel sorry for the police having to come into contact with them

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

If I've ever broken the law I've accepted the consequences of it (including being cautioned whilst protesting), so I'm not sure of your point here.

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By *limmatureguyMan
over a year ago

Tonbridge

"So if the government decided to ration food for the overweight to save lives would that be a curtailment of freedom or perfectly acceptable?

I spent the best part of my student days involved in activism and peaceful protest, but the current situation necessitates a universal response to a universal disease which as yet still has no cure."
when you allow the government to take away basic freedoms you don't get to decide what freedom they take away next.

Being overweight is like driving without a seatbelt on. You're risking your own life but the government take it on themselves to decide what risks you're allowed to take.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as they are with their like minded fellows...not a problem!

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So if the government decided to ration food for the overweight to save lives would that be a curtailment of freedom or perfectly acceptable?

I spent the best part of my student days involved in activism and peaceful protest, but the current situation necessitates a universal response to a universal disease which as yet still has no cure. when you allow the government to take away basic freedoms you don't get to decide what freedom they take away next.

Being overweight is like driving without a seatbelt on. You're risking your own life but the government take it on themselves to decide what risks you're allowed to take."

Well on this I'm afraid we'll have to disagree.

Basic freedoms have been curtailed for a reason I fully endorse due to the quite peculiar circumstances we're currently living in.

If ever the government of the time legislated against obesity and arrested or fined overweight people, I'd retrieve my Doc Martens and donkey jacket and return to militancy. However the reality of social change (in a democracy) means such a policy would never gain traction as it would result in the government being voted out at the next election.

I believe the reasons for the current prohibition of large groups congregating is understood by the wider community who support this difficult position.

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

[Removed by poster at 17/05/20 19:21:58]

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By *veragecouple321Couple
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

If I've ever broken the law I've accepted the consequences of it (including being cautioned whilst protesting), so I'm not sure of your point here."

I was referencing and replying to somebody else's post, who said they should all be arrested, and how he was following to " the letter of the law", so not really to you, I didn't say there should not be consequences for law breaking, but a peaceful protest is not against the law.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

So when you lose yours, don't complain then.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

If I've ever broken the law I've accepted the consequences of it (including being cautioned whilst protesting), so I'm not sure of your point here.

Your post was standalone, and followed one of mine, apologies.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Let them protest, let ignore social distancing, just make sure they don't burden the NHS when it goes wrong.

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Yes I am sure we all want the right to possibly give others a virus that causes death ! and while they are at it have the right to get the same virus, which they can then have the right to pass onto the NHS staff who are duty bound to treat them for the virus that they had the right to contract !

oh yeh and not counting the Met cops that had to police this right to protest without PPE because the same people who support their right to protest would have protested if the Met police had worn suits and helmets and masks which they bloody well should have.

and I am sure that the same people who are supporting these rights will say that their children have a right to return to school and be infected by their classmates …. oh yeh and then they will have a right to sue the school for the childs death ….

where do rights end and common sense start !

yeh I am all for human rights, I am all for people being treated well and not be forced into things that are not right, but people should be bloody sensible and those people yesterday were not sensible, I just hope none of them got infected as they decided that had a right to do if they wanted to be !

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By *hav02Man
over a year ago

Glasgow/London

Let feckers do as they please.

They're mostly presenting themselves as uneducated unemployed wastes. If in two weeks they develop fevers and can't breathe, then they can then stay suffering at home to allow nature's course and not waste precious NHS resources

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

Think having different rules for different areas hasn't helped, if I lived in London and had taken the big hit to then be told I can't go anywhere I might be peeved. How about people from Cornwall can't fly out of London any more lol or cross at Dover..... There seems to be a lot of ... this bit belongs to us.... People will kick back. In it together was the slogan lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those protesting should help in NHS.. Just wearing ppe for 2 hrs does my head in.. Im not front line.

I'm all for human rights etc.. But for the greater good this is world wide pandemic.

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

"Those protesting should help in NHS.. Just wearing ppe for 2 hrs does my head in.. Im not front line.

I'm all for human rights etc.. But for the greater good this is world wide pandemic. "

What you have to remember is that these people want THEIR rights as THEY see them, they don't give a fuck about the rights of the NHS staff who have to treat them or anyone else as long as what THEY feel is THEIR right to do what THEY want !

It seems that for some people (not all thank goodness) that possibly killing other people is worth THEIR rights !

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life.

Really, how many people died at the protest?"

Give it two weeks..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

where do rights end and common sense start !

The police could and should have kept their distance and let the protesters get on with it. That way, no risk to the police.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

These morons will be the first to moan about lack of Government protection....

They are fools...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I been watching the police on TV and around my town, in groups of 2/3 and 4 going up to people no 2 metre rule for them or the public. Also no PPE are they immune?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

We have limited freedoms and rights that are conditional and not permanent or universal. They form part of our state agreed permissions to be exercised where and when appropriate. They also are not mutually exclusive from other legislative powers and rights either.

These demonstrators are not truly in full demonstrating against these clear rights but have another agenda. As seen from similar protests that have been held in other countries, there is much more at play - typically groups mobilised by extremists who are agitating to advance their own agenda. Many of the foot soldiers are mere pawns, the puppets of powerful people behind the scenes.

All should be ashamed at increasing the risks for others to suffer and potentially die. Those people who have a right to live without their lives being endangered by ranting mobs.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

They are silly fools in my opinion..

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights. "

That is exactly what Trump has done in the US underneath all the covid lockdown, he's removed the right to protest against oil pipe lines etc, breached treaties & tears ahead without Congress or the public's opinion using an act (cannot remember which one atm, it's too late) that means he can do what he likes.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

People who screw the country by not paying taxes are revered as wealth creators

People who are worried we are killing the planet are misfits.

What a strange age we live in."

Totally agree, money is printed or now away appears on a screen, the planet there is only one of & it's being destroyed by the wealth creators.

It's bad enough the police can arrest you for resisting arrest meaning they can arrest you with out real cause such as repeatedly requesting why they are trying to arrest you in the first place because your not breaking the law & moving to avoid them grabbing you, grab them though & it's assault. Totally hypocritical. And yes it does happen.

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By *ncutgemMan
over a year ago

Bath ish

What about the right of the rest of us to be protected from the selfish and the right to ensure others take priority over THOSE who demand freedom and risk clogging health care What about the rishts of those who care and die or just die Give them freedom with a tatoo never to have access to the NHS

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By *evensnipeMan
over a year ago

Dinbych

Sadly the majority of the protests were linked to and organised by far right groups including England First and the likes of Tommy Robinson. not exactly the sorts of people who consider the welfare and health of others.

Responsible protest is fine but it comes with the responsibility to the rest of society. I am fine to let anyone protest in close proximity mass protests so long as they agree to... 1) stay within defined protest areas away from the public thoroughfares 2) waive their rights to NHS treatment for Covid 19 3) if arrested for B of P or other offences, 4) pay for the sanitisation of all public services equipment such as Police vans, detention cells, police suites and interview rooms.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights.

Trump does what he likes, he did before covid. Hopefully he'll be tested at the ballot box.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

I do worry about left wing nazis, the sort of caring people that know what is and isn't best for us, because yes we all have rights but their rights are always better for us !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/05/20 11:21:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

I'm absolutely shocked by some of the comments i've seen here to be honest. To state that people who disagree with the prevailing narrative should be arrested and have no human rights shows how unhinged some people have become.

Perhaps the initial response was justified as there was little information on the novel virus. A lot more data is now available that makes a case for a shifting of gears and policy.

Fact is that the measures implemented are an authoritarian's wet dream, and if history has shown anything, is that power that is grabbed this intensively, is rarely ever relinquished. If you think this couldn't happen, remember that the people of the Weimar republic probably didn't either, and look what happened there.

People protesting the continuing lockdown policy have real grievances for doing so, and if you think they're all fringe unwashed masses, then you're not paying attention. Numerous academics and professionals from all fields, including medicine, epidemiology, economists and politicians are questioning the same thing.

When people are arrested and silenced for expressing their opinion just remember; if they can do it to them they can do it to anyone, including you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sadly the majority of the protests were linked to and organised by far right groups including England First and the likes of Tommy Robinson. not exactly the sorts of people who consider the welfare and health of others.

"
Saying they have to pay for cleaning the van and all the places they put is crap. When did you last see the police wear any PPE or social distance on TV or in your town. They are immune super men who can tell you what to do face to face (no mask needed) do as we say not as we do.

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Totally agree"

Spot on ...,

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist."

I was trying to get my head around that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s face it no one protesting has any common sense nor do they have any thought or humanity towards anyone but themselves.

Perhaps those taken into custody should in two week stand in front of those families who’s family members die.

The should have all been given fines and should they not be able to afford the fine then work cleaning the covid wards until the debt was paid back.

This infection is a massive inconvenience to everyone, people loosing jobs, homes but those things can be built back and yet we as humans can’t reincarnate!!

People are best to remember that when not following guidelines.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm absolutely shocked by some of the comments i've seen here to be honest. To state that people who disagree with the prevailing narrative should be arrested and have no human rights shows how unhinged some people have become.

Perhaps the initial response was justified as there was little information on the novel virus. A lot more data is now available that makes a case for a shifting of gears and policy.

When people are arrested and silenced for expressing their opinion just remember; if they can do it to them they can do it to anyone, including you."

As a philosophical commentary I agree with your post, but as a pragmatic response I don't believe it's relevant given the current crisis.

There are measures in place which have been created to reduce the spread of a virus for which there's currently no cure.

It's hard to imagine what the ulterior motive is from the government's point of view or what other measures could be employed to restrict the spread of the virus.

Other professionals, academics may well be questioning the effectiveness of these measures, they're perfectly entitled to. However they're not in government or representing the government so aren't in a position to implement different measures or just as importantly take responsibility for them.

It's rather ironic that the point being missed is the protest was allowed to go ahead, people were not being arrested for voicing their opinion, the police intervened to disperse groups who weren't socially distancing, despite this being the advice the vast majority of the population are managing to adhere to.

References to totalitarian regimes are irrelevant and hysterical. We cannot challenge the facts..

the virus is spread through human contact or close contact.

There is no cure.

It kills lots of people and makes many more very ill with life changing conditions.

Its potential spread is exponential if not contained.

The current measures are temporary, if they continue once the lockdown's been rescinded it's at that point the general public will be totally justified in marching on London, in my opinion.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I do worry about left wing nazis, the sort of caring people that know what is and isn't best for us, because yes we all have rights but their rights are always better for us !

To be fair there's some evidence that the alt.right are behind the protests.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"I do worry about left wing nazis, the sort of caring people that know what is and isn't best for us, because yes we all have rights but their rights are always better for us !

The left wing nazis fought a lot harder for trans rights than the right wing nazis did.

Didn't they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps the initial response was justified as there was little information on the novel virus. A lot more data is now available that makes a case for a shifting of gears and policy.

When people are arrested and silenced for expressing their opinion just remember; if they can do it to them they can do it to anyone, including you.

As a philosophical commentary I agree with your post, but as a pragmatic response I don't believe it's relevant given the current crisis.

There are measures in place which have been created to reduce the spread of a virus for which there's currently no cure.

It's hard to imagine what the ulterior motive is from the government's point of view or what other measures could be employed to restrict the spread of the virus.

References to totalitarian regimes are irrelevant and hysterical. We cannot challenge the facts..

the virus is spread through human contact or close contact.

There is no cure.

It kills lots of people and makes many more very ill with life changing conditions.

Its potential spread is exponential if not contained.

The current measures are temporary, if they continue once the lockdown's been rescinded it's at that point the general public will be totally justified in marching on London, in my opinion.

while i agree with most of your post, the problem here is apparently (and i use that loosely because we know there are multiple motives at play) many of the people protesting dont believe there is a virus to begin with

so how can we expect them to obey safety rules for a virus that they are protesting the existence of in the first place

you get stuck back in that catch 22 where to stop them protesting about the virus, because the government say it is to prevent the virus, is really in the same vein as stopping people protesting because we removed their right to protest ... thats maybe not a good example but its government says X and i want to protest, but I can protest because government said X

i do however think wether they believed it was necessary or not it wouldn’t have been hard for them to just stand 2m apart while they were there, they would still be gathered and shouting snd making their point

covid is throwing up alot of issues that would have usually only existed in some moral philosophy textbook because we didnt think realistic examples of it being tested in practice would happen

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

As a philosophical commentary I agree with your post, but as a pragmatic response I don't believe it's relevant given the current crisis.

There are measures in place which have been created to reduce the spread of a virus for which there's currently no cure.

It's hard to imagine what the ulterior motive is from the government's point of view or what other measures could be employed to restrict the spread of the virus.

References to totalitarian regimes are irrelevant and hysterical. We cannot challenge the facts..

the virus is spread through human contact or close contact.

There is no cure.

It kills lots of people and makes many more very ill with life changing conditions.

Its potential spread is exponential if not contained.

The current measures are temporary, if they continue once the lockdown's been rescinded it's at that point the general public will be totally justified in marching on London, in my opinion.

so how can we expect them to obey safety rules for a virus that they are protesting the existence of in the first place

Hahaha, yes that's a good point, if they're denying the virus exists then they definitely believe they're being treated harshly!

The problem from humanity's point of view is that the virus isn't concerned by our elegant discussions about it's existence, it certainly isn't seeking our approval!

So on the off chance it does exist I'd prefer everyone take our relationship with it seriously just until some hemp seed poultice has been invented that conquers it!

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By *ldhamlad26Man
over a year ago

failsworth

"I think the government has enough power, why would you want to hand them even more?

.. because in this instance there's a genuine concern for the preservation of human life."

Really, how many people died at the protest?

None of them all this worry of safty yet bo prtester get ill the people having parties/gatherings still meeting in here are all WELL.. make of this what you want everyones got there own thoughts and opinions..

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

" safty yet bo prtester get ill the people having parties/gatherings still meeting in here are all WELL.."

How do you know?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hypothetical question here, Will all those people wanting piers and friends banned be so vociferous if there is another "million strong", anti Brexit rally in Central London as we approach the 31st or will that too be seen as government using covid 19 to suppress freedom of speech ?

Or if because there are more people wanting to do it, it is OK ? It seems a cake and eat it situation may develop here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was an idiot in the US who felt the same.... He said he was protected by his God in church and should be be allowed to pray in church... He claimed the virus was a hoax... and none believer.

Well the virus was no respecter of religion... He found it out. This doubting Thomas found the truth out as he is now infected and on oxygen... Having seen his picture he is a typical yank.. very obese. So the co morbidity of a high BMI may cost his life for being stupid.

The more we protect ourselves the less people will be infected and the sooner this will pass.

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By *oistknickersCouple
over a year ago

London

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Every chance the Government gets they reduce our freedom a little bit.

I remember MP’s say that I disagree with you but you’ve got the right to say it, they’ve stopped using that one.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Hypothetical question here, Will all those people wanting piers and friends banned be so vociferous if there is another "million strong", anti Brexit rally in Central London as we approach the 31st or will that too be seen as government using covid 19 to suppress freedom of speech ?

Or if because there are more people wanting to do it, it is OK ? It seems a cake and eat it situation may develop here."

Literally nothing to do with brexit.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Or if because there are more people wanting to do it, it is OK ? It seems a cake and eat it situation may develop here."

I'm not sure many here want protests banned, just that social distancing applies..that way everyone gets to have their cake and eat it.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Every chance the Government gets they reduce our freedom a little bit."

Covid-19's responsible in this instance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or if because there are more people wanting to do it, it is OK ? It seems a cake and eat it situation may develop here."

Are you linking people who believe that the virus is real with those people who think brexit is a bad idea?

Seem like unrelated issues to me.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

Thing is there are currently 8billion people & growing year on year, historically the earth supported approx 2 billion people. This exponential growth in populations has occurred in less than 100 years, combine that with ability to travel around the globe very quickly by plane & what you've got is a biological & environmental nightmare.

Given that we are all causing deforestation, viable land depletion and fresh water depletion purely by the volume of people & our lifestyles on this earth, you cannot feasibly expect what seem like large volumes of people not to die.

Add that to living in densely populated areas & encroaching closer to wild animals plus the many bacteria becoming immune to our antibiotics, there is bound to be a surge over the next few decades of incurable viruses & diseases, the questions remains:

Are we going to lockdown the world everytime a virus outbreak happens?

to realise that these are natural population controls that all species experience?

to realise humans are not the only species that matters on this planet?

To realise that signing up to any medical career means that at any point a unknown or deadly virus can come through the door, its part of the biology & shouldn't be naive to think otherwise.

Shouting for vaccines means there are hundreds of thousands of animal tortured to achieve them every day

Death is a part of life, you don't get to choose when or how in the vast majority of cases and all of us are affected by death in our lifetimes.

As for government controls, would you knowingly agree to be watched and tracked every minute of every day? That's where the track & trace apps are doing it is also demonises anyone who has passed it on potentially unknowingly, it'll become a new version of witch hunting.

Lockdown globally could have also been a "quick fix" attempt to global lower emissions thinking a short term stoppage would help with climate change overall, it won't. As for businesses, you forget money is printed it's not a natural resource that is finite.

I could raise many more issues but I'll stop there before my active brain goes into ultimate overdrive.

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley

Rights are yours and cannot be taken away. No other man or woman has more authority than the next man or woman

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Rights are yours and cannot be taken away. No other man or woman has more authority than the next man or woman"

They should not be taken away. But they often are.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Rights are yours and cannot be taken away."

Oh yes they can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thing is there are currently 8billion people & growing year on year, historically the earth supported approx 2 billion people. This exponential growth in populations has occurred in less than 100 years, combine that with ability to travel around the globe very quickly by plane & what you've got is a biological & environmental nightmare.

Are we going to lockdown the world everytime a virus outbreak happens?

to realise that these are natural population controls that all species experience?

to realise humans are not the only species that matters on this planet?

To realise that signing up to any medical career means that at any point a unknown or deadly virus can come through the door, its part of the biology & shouldn't be naive to think otherwise.

Shouting for vaccines means there are hundreds of thousands of animal tortured to achieve them every day

Death is a part of life, you don't get to choose when or how in the vast majority of cases and all of us are affected by death in our lifetimes.

I could raise many more issues but I'll stop there before my active brain goes into ultimate overdrive. "

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

Are we going to lockdown the world everytime a virus outbreak happens?

to realise that these are natural population controls that all species experience?

to realise humans are not the only species that matters on this planet?

To realise that signing up to any medical career means that at any point a unknown or deadly virus can come through the door, its part of the biology & shouldn't be naive to think otherwise.

Shouting for vaccines means there are hundreds of thousands of animal tortured to achieve them every day

Death is a part of life, you don't get to choose when or how in the vast majority of cases and all of us are affected by death in our lifetimes.

I could raise many more issues but I'll stop there before my active brain goes into ultimate overdrive.

Spot on

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist."

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol "

That song was about loyalist kids in northern island.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol "

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Left Wing - "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished"

Nazi - "Nazism is a form of fascism, and showed that ideology's disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system, but also incorporated fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and eugenics into its creed."

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it."

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis".

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis"."

How can silence be deafening? The phrase

There was a deafening silence.....

But you've taken me literally and said but we replied lol never mind, think what you like and I will to. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis".

How can silence be deafening? The phrase

There was a deafening silence.....

But you've taken me literally and said but we replied lol never mind, think what you like and I will to. x"

I genuinely want to understand how you've come to the conclusions that you have. But I don't understand what you're saying.

Was there a line in the song about "deafening silence"? Maybe you're being too cryptic for me, can you spell it out?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis"."
Not sure if the Nazis was left or right wing but they was called the National socialist party. Maybe that's where the confusion comes from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis".

Not sure if the Nazis was left or right wing but they was called the National socialist party. Maybe that's where the confusion comes from. "

I can confirm for you, categorically, that the Nazi party was a fascist far right party.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I do worry about left wing nazis

There's no such thing as "left wing nazis". It's an oxymoron. So don't waste time worrying about something that doesn't exist.

Olivers army by elvis Costello .... Refers to .... another white nigxxx ......

Listen to the song it might help you see.... Coz I can't talk all night lol

Okay, so Elvis Costello wrote a song about the troubles in NI and it contained a racial slur.

Are you presenting this as evidence that "left wing nazis" is a real concept?

From wiki:

Doesn't seem to be any overlap. I maintain that you have made something up, then got worried about it.

There was a deafening silence, how is that possible lol now do you understand? If not I give up.....

Deafening silence? Two of us have replied to you.

I can confirm that I do not have a clue why you're using this song as evidence that there is such a thing as "left wing nazis".Not sure if the Nazis was left or right wing but they was called the National socialist party. Maybe that's where the confusion comes from. "

National socialism is a contradiction in itself.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

When we say there was a deafening silence, we know silence is not deafening, how can silence deafen us, it can't but it is also sort of true, we've all been in that situation where the silence was deafening!

When Elvis Costello wrote about another white nigxxx it wasn't a racial slur but comment on the plight of the people... He didn't get his colours mixed up!

i hope my original post now makes more sense lol it's not going to change the world either way lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When we say there was a deafening silence, we know silence is not deafening, how can silence deafen us, it can't but it is also sort of true, we've all been in that situation where the silence was deafening!

When Elvis Costello wrote about another white nigxxx it wasn't a racial slur but comment on the plight of the people... He didn't get his colours mixed up!

i hope my original post now makes more sense lol it's not going to change the world either way lol "

Thank you for taking a moment to explain.

I think I agree, about some of it. As MLK said "There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

A general point I like to make, is that being on the left or on the right, doesn't have anything to do with right and wrong. Every issue can be looked at and opinions can be formed irrespective of political left/rightness.

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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago

Chippenham Malmesbury area

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

100% agree! I haven't seen the reports about these protests so I don't know what precaution were taken to prevent the spread of COVID 19; I hope that they maintained social distancing. People also have a right to life, there's no excuse for endangering others just to excise other freedoms, doing so would be ignorant, selfish and reckless.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I hope that they maintained social distancing."

Unfortunately they didn't.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS
over a year ago

Notts

When Elvis Costello wrote about another white nigxxx it wasn't a racial slur but comment on the plight of the people... He didn't get his colours mixed up!

i hope my original post now makes more sense lol it's not going to change the world either way lol

Thank you for taking a moment to explain.

I think I agree, about some of it. As MLK said "There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

Exactly it just depends who is drawing the line.... Who is writing the history books.... normally the victor lol were they justified or did they just conquer?

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

You also have to die at some point. We're not immortal & there will always be something to kill us, this virus or otherwise.

You can pass the flu to another & kill them too but we don't lock down for that every year, yet approx 40k die.

How about the ones who die from air pollution every year, usually we pay no attention to that & carry on driving & flying without a care for any other humans or species.

How about the badgers right to life? We cull them every year, or the hedgehogs almost at the point of being endangered because we flatten them on the road with our cars & remove their habitat by slabbing or decking yards.

The humble owl has a right to food & life yet we poison their food & in turn them. So many other examples in the world too of humans blatant disregard for other species.

So in your own words, the vast majority of humans are ignorant, selfish & reckless.

Being able to protest is much better than an all out rebellion & we should know by history, just look at slavery it was forced upon many, so was colonial rule, highland clearances etc they weren't allowed to contest what was happening to them. very slippery slope when you curtail rights.

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By *nkidutuMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Listen to Professor Dolores Cahill , Immunologist,on YouTube ..that puts quite a different perspective on things. She cannot be ignored....'Science is where the solution lies. However, as we can see scientists disagree like in every area of life - otherwise we would have no advances....Anyway, I leave it to you.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Listen to Professor Dolores Cahill , Immunologist,on YouTube ..that puts quite a different perspective on things. She cannot be ignored....'Science is where the solution lies. However, as we can see scientists disagree like in every area of life - otherwise we would have no advances....Anyway, I leave it to you....."

She seems to be associated with the Irish Freedom Party. Bunch of loonies. No thanks.

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

The government control what we do, t'was ever thus. Elected members represent the people and an executive wield the power and take responsibility and determine our 'rights'. The reason being that left to our own devices results in anarchy because as individuals we can't be trusted to behave in a way that doesn't destroy society or enable it to develop.

One only has to look at what became of once civilised societies when the rule of law broke down.

I appreciate what you're saying about other social issues but the alternative doesn't look good either.

Sometimes our freedoms are curtailed due to a politician's view of the common good, not everyone will share that vision but the talking starts and finishes at the ballot box.

Remember the debates that raged before the Blair government banned smoking in public places? I was one of those who objected, now I couldn't imagine being in a pub or restaurant breathing other people's cigarette smoke. Not all government inspired prohibitions are necessarily bad ones and the current restrictions on freedom of association will be temporary.

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By *utualpleasure42Man
over a year ago

enter location here

The freedom to spread utter nonsense should be illegal.

This was a conspiracy followers wet dream.

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley

Yes i agree the Government shouldn't be allowed to publish its utter nonesense to control the people.

The government forgets they are public Servants, not dictators

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

Apologies if this theme has been posted elsewhere, could only find the thread about Piers Corbyn."

Selfish fucking arseholes in my humble opinion.

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

In this case they were putting other people at risk by protesting, that is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

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By *oe007Man
over a year ago

dublin , clare

conspiracy theorist s and nut jobs , they will get us all killed

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By *onesyMan
over a year ago

harrogate

And what about the people's rights to be able to live. These idiots are only spreading the virus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny, I bet the people banging on about this lots right to protest were the same ones slagging of Extinction Rebellion for erm.....protesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny, I bet the people banging on about this lots right to protest were the same ones slagging of Extinction Rebellion for erm.....protesting"
Bit different meeting in a park than blocking roads and closing down a city.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny, I bet the people banging on about this lots right to protest were the same ones slagging of Extinction Rebellion for erm.....protestingBit different meeting in a park than blocking roads and closing down a city. "

Thank you..... beautifully done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'protesting is a human right......providing it's something I agree with...

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By *oan of DArc OP Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

The government forgets they are public Servants, not dictators "

What would be your view if the majority of the public agreed with the protestors being dispersed at the weekend?

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

"The protestors in London yesterday seemed to be upset that their freedom of movement was being curtailed by the state and took to the streets to make their point known.

Now I'm usually a great believer in personal freedoms, but I also believe that the state has a role to play where legislation is enacted to serve the common good.

Demonstrating to illustrate a principle when people are dying, especially when in doing so places more people at risk seems a contradiction to me.

The rules aren't in place to terrorise the general public, but from the behaviour of the demonstrators it would appear they believe so.

What do you think?

In this case they were putting other people at risk by protesting, that is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. "

It is unacceptable to most sensible people -but they do not care ! Their 'human rights' are more important than the rest of the worlds right to live !

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

[Removed by poster at 18/05/20 23:21:41]

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I think many of them will feel stupid today

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

"
No anyone can protest but infringing other people rights ie blocking roads then no. Saying I only back protester I believe in is a cheap shot.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think it's all about balance. You can make your views known, but can you do that in a way that doesn't threaten public health? (I'm all for some civil disobedience but there's a line)

Freedoms have been curtailed. Have they been done in a way which is reasonable, proportionate, in line with the rule of law, and effective? Partly yes, partly no. There's reason to be concerned, certainly. But in this day and age we can make our voices heard at a safe distance from others who might spread or be vulnerable to disease.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Extinction Rebellion seem to get a free pass to demonstrate however they want and get left alone by the police.

Most other protests get a lot closer police attention. Wonder why???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

No anyone can protest but infringing other people rights ie blocking roads then no. Saying I only back protester I believe in is a cheap shot. "

They should have been respecting the rules around social distancing. Really for not following this they should be fined 3k or trialled for attempted manslaughter. People are staying home following the rules and they go around breaking them. No respect. If they stand 2m apart then fair enough. They won't be protesting when they bring the virus home and someone dies.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

No anyone can protest but infringing other people rights ie blocking roads then no. Saying I only back protester I believe in is a cheap shot.

Oh so in your theory, anyone who passes on any virus to a vulnerable person without knowing it or meaning it cos they travelled on the same bus or touched the same banister is not manslaughter.

Do you any of you know if they did behave as told prior to protesting or even better self isolated & therefore knew they didn't have the virus? No, no one thought to ask that.

You have as much right to die as you do to live, you choose the timing & method of neither. Viruses, bacteria, diseases, illnesses and faulty body parts are all part of nature & population control in nature. We are not immortals, stop expecting to be, death is a part of life regardless of the method & we all have to deal with death.

If your that terrified of death go find a vampire to make you immortal, oh wait they don't exist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

No anyone can protest but infringing other people rights ie blocking roads then no. Saying I only back protester I believe in is a cheap shot.

Oh so in your theory, anyone who passes on any virus to a vulnerable person without knowing it or meaning it cos they travelled on the same bus or touched the same banister is not manslaughter.

Do you any of you know if they did behave as told prior to protesting or even better self isolated & therefore knew they didn't have the virus? No, no one thought to ask that.

If your that terrified of death go find a vampire to make you immortal, oh wait they don't exist."

There is a big difference sweetheart. Going out of your way and breaking the rules then yes, we are way too soft in this country. They are putting lives of police and public at risk. Someone who self isolated does not get a pass against the rules. The rules are for everyone. They are not above the law or rest of the country. Its shocking what they did and I would have loved to have seen a proper punishment.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

At the top of the thread you said:

"Don't care if they are right or wrong I still believe they have a right to protest. Remove that and we may never get them back, we are living in strange times but we must protect our rights."

Does that only count if you're protesting after watching some David Ike's YouTube videos, and not people who want action taken on climate change?

No anyone can protest but infringing other people rights ie blocking roads then no. Saying I only back protester I believe in is a cheap shot.

Oh so in your theory, anyone who passes on any virus to a vulnerable person without knowing it or meaning it cos they travelled on the same bus or touched the same banister is not manslaughter.

Do you any of you know if they did behave as told prior to protesting or even better self isolated & therefore knew they didn't have the virus? No, no one thought to ask that.

If your that terrified of death go find a vampire to make you immortal, oh wait they don't exist.

It's not at all, a virus is a virus. Bacteria is bacteria. Illness is illness, an accident is an accident & Death is death.

Stop trying to blame someone or something that happens....that is life.

Or do you want me to start on the numerous ways humans think they deserve life over every other species on this planet.

You, me & everyone else are not important in nature, we are not define beings, we are not immortals, we are merely part of the eco system & nature decides not you or I.

We may manipulate nature but we do not & cannot control it.

Nature is clearly fed up with our disrespectful ways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's not at all, a virus is a virus. Bacteria is bacteria. Illness is illness, an accident is an accident & Death is death.

Stop trying to blame someone or something that happens....that is life. "

if that was true in the eyes of the law then you people wouldn’t be prosecuted for death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter or corporate manslaughter ... all involve accidental death where someone is held responsible for not acting with more care

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

" It's not at all, a virus is a virus. Bacteria is bacteria. Illness is illness, an accident is an accident & Death is death.

Stop trying to blame someone or something that happens....that is life.

Or partake in any other medical interventions.

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By *ensualguy70TV/TS
over a year ago

paisley

Nobody in Government has answered the questions why Covid 19 was put on death Certificates despite the fact they didnt die of Covid 19.

What about Neil Ferguson , the guy who advised the Government to lock everybody down, did he and his lover not break the very rules HE advised to put in place?

Catherine Calderwod Scottish health minister who advised the lockdown for Scotland, didnt she break her own rules,by visiting her second home?????

Lets protect the NHS, whilst the NHS hospitals are lying empty and staff have time to practice tik tok videos, man jailed for videoing empty hospitals, staff at hospitals told to pretend to be patients and line up for news cameras to make the pandemic look worse than it is.

Bill gates , oh he pledged all this money into medical research, yeas look at how many young children he killed in Africa and got kicked out in the end, look at how money Jimmy Saville ploughed into Stoke Mandeville Hospital, yes and look at his own agenda for that, and protected by the BBC and you still believe this government is there to care for you??? and you call protesters and conspiracy theorists

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

" It's not at all, a virus is a virus. Bacteria is bacteria. Illness is illness, an accident is an accident & Death is death.

Stop trying to blame someone or something that happens....that is life.

There is an absorb cheek to say lack of car given how humans behave towards other species & don't care.

Dangerous driving deaths actually get one of the lowest punishment by all forms of humanised "murders" plus a vehicle is a weapon, it's over a tonne of metal your in charge of & it's man made.

Negligence manslaughter is simply a blame game, apparently no one has common sense to care for their own safety or health in the workplace (another man made thing), eg. Breathing in excess co2 gas from welding over 40yrs is obviously gonna cause medical issues, your body is not built to be doing it in the first place.

There is no allowance in the medical profession for human error despite humans not being perfect nor is medicine (medical practice - another man made thing)

Corporate manslaughter doesn't apply to Scotland or northern Ireland or most of the world it exists only because legally a company is a person in its own right and therefore cannot be charged under negligence manslaughter, lots of companies poison water sources etc (companies - another man made structure)

Your examples are not comparative because all my examples are natural causes all of your examples are man made.

Your still only considering man made deaths of humans, none consider the man made deaths of billions of animals each year for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't consider deaths by pollution (man made), deaths by poisoning with pesticides (also man made).

Never mind all the animal deaths & torture in pursuit of medical advances such as vaccines (every vaccine!), psychology studies, cloning, transplants, pain experiments - all that is negligence murder & torture but we don't care cos they are animals & we are the very stupid supreme beings who think they are separate from & above the rest of nature.

Biology, chemistry, geography & physics are not man made, nature isn't man made.

We are manipulating it all to do as we please for another man made invention - Money.

Try again with non man made examples.