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Corona and Air con systems

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By *usie p OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

Has anyone seen any info on the virus being circulated in air con systems, as far as I am aware these systems recirculate already cooled air in side a vehicle, building etc. On the news they are banging on about social distancing on planes etc is going to make any odds if we taking in recirculated air.

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By *exy7Man
over a year ago

Bristol

No I haven’t heard about this but when all these people on the same cruise ships got contaminated, that’s the first thing I thought about.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Thought it was fairly accepted that the best place to pick up a cold or the flu is on a plane..

Also pretty sure the manufacturers will say we filter the air etc..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Air con can make a person sick if they are going from hot to cold back to cold then hot. It would make sense ac can cause sickness especially if u got temperature and using a.c.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered"

Are the filters fine enough to filter out viruses?....the smallest living things on the planet...the size of a small single cell....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with a previous comment we did wonder if it was the air conditioning on cruise ships that made things worse but no one seems to be looking at that aspect

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By *aastyKnixWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered"

That air has to reach the filtration system. All that air (and anything carried in it) can pass by a lot of mouths and nostrils before it is cleaned.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

What do the experts say now about it being air borne or not ? Originally they said COVID-19 droplets fall fast to the ground after approx 1-2 meters , is this still the science ? If so then you catch it by close contact with others and hard surfaces/poor hand hygiene only, not air con

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"Agree with a previous comment we did wonder if it was the air conditioning on cruise ships that made things worse but no one seems to be looking at that aspect "

Ships , the London Underground, planes, busses - all have one thing in common - lots of hard surfaces like handles that are used by high numbers of people without being cleansed regularly

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Yes I did O.P. I did I did I did and it worried me shitless........

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Just let me think where..........

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Okay here is my shot at it.

I've watched documentaries and cannot recall the one it was from but it was a legitimate documentary not a fake news titilator ......

The program spoke of patient zero .... tracked their travel ( this is the legitimately held patient zero - he had a name and everything ) He got off a plane, he felt ill ...... he barfed in an office building in a loo ...... the shafts allowed the transmission of the covid virus to travel into other areas of the building ( sucked up n out was the intimation ) .... and boom ..... he infected a lot of people.

Anyone else see that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered

That air has to reach the filtration system. All that air (and anything carried in it) can pass by a lot of mouths and nostrils before it is cleaned."

Exactly this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a controlled indoor environment, a sneeze can travel up to 23 metres and stay airborne for up to 10 minutes. Maybe the virus is heavy and drops to the ground quickly

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By *usietranslutTV/TS
over a year ago

carlow

Any air conditioning system that re-circulates air from the space (room or building) will re-circulate the virus if it is in the air unless there are high grade ultra HEPA filters installed as used in isolation rooms, acute operating theatres and Class 1 Cleanrooms.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered

Are the filters fine enough to filter out viruses?....the smallest living things on the planet...the size of a small single cell...."

Yes they are, and the recirculating air is mixed with 50% fresh air from outside the plane

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By *usietranslutTV/TS
over a year ago

carlow


"Ah that old chestnut.

Air circulating on planes is filtered

Are the filters fine enough to filter out viruses?....the smallest living things on the planet...the size of a small single cell....

Yes they are, and the recirculating air is mixed with 50% fresh air from outside the plane"

Plane AC system filters most certainly cannot remove the virus from the air stream

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By *iddle ManMan
over a year ago

Walsall

The air on a plane is probably more filtered and replenished more than your standard office. I'm sure I've read it somewhere it is replenished three times more than office air, so your breathing in new air (from outside) three times more than you do in a standard office using aircon. Although it doesn't help the large number of people in a small space.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"

Plane AC system filters most certainly cannot remove the virus from the air stream"

Really ?

GEDIMINAS ZIEMELIS

on 18th March 2020

The air in a plane is filtered and 99.97% sterile

According to the studies of the European Aviation Safety Agency the air in the aircraft is changed every 2-3 minutes and the filters it goes through are able to eliminate even coronavirus.

The main question nowadays, at the time of global coronavirus outbreak, is whether it is safe to fly or is there a big possibility to get infected while on board? With the connections between China and the rest of the world, many turned their attention to the aircraft cabin, in particular on the air that passengers breathe, sometimes even for as long as 17-18 hours (on intercontinental flights).

It is only reasonable that there are doubts about the aircraft - they are enclosed spaces, where one is in close contact with other travelers, almost all of whom are strangers and whose past, contacts and trips are obviously unknown. Therefore, even the tiniest sneeze or cough worries everyone around.

Studies

IATA, the international association that brings together 300 airlines around the globe confirms that in reality, the air on board is very clean and really safe. To confirm such fact, there are two studies of EASA, the independent European agency for aviation safety, dating back to 2017. Those documents claim that the air quality in the cabin is similar or even better than that normally recorded in indoor environments such as offices, schools and homes. The reason for it is that the aircraft system is designed to circulate air, which is 50% taken from outside and 50% is internal and filtered. In some cases, like Delta Air Lines' Boeing 717s, the air is taken entirely from the outside and adapted to be suitable to breathe inside.

Sophisticated filters

The air on airplanes is highly sterile. The planes, especially the latest generation ones, have efficient and modern filters called high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA), which are identical to those of hospitals and therefore manage to capture and block up to 99.97% of the microbes present (numbers estimated by IATA). A percentage that some companies confirm on their aircraft board rises to 99.999%, thus stopping small viruses of even 0.01 micrometers in diameter, while coronavirus size ranges from 0.08 to 0.16 micrometers. It is important to understand that air filters in aircraft are capable of dealing with far smaller particles than coronavirus, thus it is wrong to assume that airliners are a place for virus to spread freely and unhindered.

Fresh air every 2-3 minutes

Nevertheless, aircraft renews the air in the cabin frequently for it to be fresh and healthy to breathe, which is not usually performed in classrooms, cinemas nor offices. Airbus states that their A350s change all the air in the cabin every 2-3 minutes; similar times are also recorded in the rival Boeing 787. The interior environments of the aircraft are also regularly disinfected. "The risk of contracting the virus from an infected person at high altitude is in all probability lower than that of enclosed spaces, such as offices", continues the IATA representative.

All member airlines are required to regularly update themselves by consulting a special database within the international association, so you can be sure that the information you receive is the latest and always reliable.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

Can you say that about the London undergroind

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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago

Longridge

Not the Air Con itself, but the movement of contaminated air in enclosed space.

Aircraft is guaranteed risk, see Wizz Air post I replied to last night. Cars, turn recirc to fresh air on control, anywhere else blowing air aroubd eith infected petson present is a risk, restraunts, pubs etc.

This came via WHO after study in Chuna, CCN reported it.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains how difficult it will be to mitigate spread of the coronavirus in restaurants, one of the businesses set to reopen following governors relaxing orders in some Southern states.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/04/21/coronavirus-spread-restaurant-seating-sanjay-gupta-newday-vpx.cnn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Following on from the above 2 posts, the quality of the air from any HEPA filter boils down to how often it's replaced.

And the word "boil" reminds me of an Air crash investigation that has everything to do with HEPA replacement.

An aircraft caught fire in flight with the loss of all on board. The FAA investigation proved it was caused by the HEPA filters in the aircraft body overheating, the filters were directly underneath the central fuel tank and caused it to explode. They overheated because they hadn't been changed since the aircraft had been built and were completely blocked. Keep in mind peeps that if the filters are not changed when they should be, they are actually next to useless.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands

[Removed by poster at 02/05/20 17:11:38]

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"Not the Air Con itself, but the movement of contaminated air in enclosed space.

Aircraft is guaranteed risk, see Wizz Air post I replied to last night. Cars, turn recirc to fresh air on control, anywhere else blowing air aroubd eith infected petson present is a risk, restraunts, pubs etc.

This came via WHO after study in Chuna, CCN reported it.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains how difficult it will be to mitigate spread of the coronavirus in restaurants, one of the businesses set to reopen following governors relaxing orders in some Southern states.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/04/21/coronavirus-spread-restaurant-seating-sanjay-gupta-newday-vpx.cnn"

Doesn't moving the air round significantly reduce the viral load present compared to still air

How can the London undergroumd possibly be allowed when the passenger density is far higher than dozens of airplanes, obviously why the infection and death rate is so high in London and others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was thinking about buying an air on machine, but il give it a miss now

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By *adame 2SwordsWoman
over a year ago

Victoria, London

Spread of all diseases is worse since they stopped smoking on planes.

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"Spread of all diseases is worse since they stopped smoking on planes.

"

That's interesting, are there statistics for that one ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/05/20 13:44:12]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just wanted to jump in and clear something up, being someone who is involved in the design and installation of HVAC or ventilation systems.

Air con systems along with the delivery system of supplying air to air con, never ever recirculates air, fresh air coming into a building is never mixed with stale extracted air, stale air is always dumped to the external, so viruses etc cannot be transferred in these systems,

I dont know how the systems work on planes though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most commercial air con systems have fresh air supplied to the units they are also fitted with filters it will depend on the filter and servicing of these ie replacement schedule..car air cons also have the function to recycle air or as is normal use fresh air supplied which is normally via a pollen filter which should be changed when your car is serviced...most ac and motor vehicle filters wont be of a standard that filters viruses or bacteria but they do bring in fresh air and extract air from buildings..better than sitting in an office with no ventilation or just open windows..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Following on from the above 2 posts, the quality of the air from any HEPA filter boils down to how often it's replaced.

And the word "boil" reminds me of an Air crash investigation that has everything to do with HEPA replacement.

An aircraft caught fire in flight with the loss of all on board. The FAA investigation proved it was caused by the HEPA filters in the aircraft body overheating, the filters were directly underneath the central fuel tank and caused it to explode. They overheated because they hadn't been changed since the aircraft had been built and were completely blocked. Keep in mind peeps that if the filters are not changed when they should be, they are actually next to useless."

FYI a HEPA filter filters better with age so long as it is not perforated. The particles trapped by the filter trap more particles so less contamination passes the filter .The downside is increased back pressure on the fan so greater energy cost or reduced airflow. Most HEPAS will last 5/10 years if the prefilters are regularily changed. Also Covid 19 is too small to be filtered by HEPA at high rates some will always pass the filter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wanted to jump in and clear something up, being someone who is involved in the design and installation of HVAC or ventilation systems.

Air con systems along with the delivery system of supplying air to air con, never ever recirculates air, fresh air coming into a building is never mixed with stale extracted air, stale air is always dumped to the external, so viruses etc cannot be transferred in these systems,

I dont know how the systems work on planes though "

This is usually only the case with operating theatres cand some industrial process areas with high contamination . Most AC systems recirc with a percentage of fresh air.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wanted to jump in and clear something up, being someone who is involved in the design and installation of HVAC or ventilation systems.

Air con systems along with the delivery system of supplying air to air con, never ever recirculates air, fresh air coming into a building is never mixed with stale extracted air, stale air is always dumped to the external, so viruses etc cannot be transferred in these systems,

I dont know how the systems work on planes though

This is usually only the case with operating theatres cand some industrial process areas with high contamination . Most AC systems recirc with a percentage of fresh air.

"

Not the ones we install, the air handling unit supplies fresh tempered air area, whether that be the ceiling void or to grilles in the ceiling, and the stale air is taken away and dumped, up to 30 or 40 litres a second in most cases, the air con is a separate system that uses the air to heat and cool, but it's the delivery system that maintains the purity of the air

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wanted to jump in and clear something up, being someone who is involved in the design and installation of HVAC or ventilation systems.

Air con systems along with the delivery system of supplying air to air con, never ever recirculates air, fresh air coming into a building is never mixed with stale extracted air, stale air is always dumped to the external, so viruses etc cannot be transferred in these systems,

I dont know how the systems work on planes though

This is usually only the case with operating theatres cand some industrial process areas with high contamination . Most AC systems recirc with a percentage of fresh air.

Not the ones we install, the air handling unit supplies fresh tempered air area, whether that be the ceiling void or to grilles in the ceiling, and the stale air is taken away and dumped, up to 30 or 40 litres a second in most cases, the air con is a separate system that uses the air to heat and cool, but it's the delivery system that maintains the purity of the air "

You are talking about tempered fresh air systems. The OP was talking about Airconditioning systems which air mainly recirc. The fresh air that your systems supply are probably less than 10% of the air moved in the building.

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By *itonmyfacebookMan
over a year ago

Burton on Trent


"Air con can make a person sick if they are going from hot to cold back to cold then hot. It would make sense ac can cause sickness especially if u got temperature and using a.c. "

F***. Have you ever been to Singapore?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Plane AC system filters most certainly cannot remove the virus from the air stream

Really ?

GEDIMINAS ZIEMELIS

on 18th March 2020

The air in a plane is filtered and 99.97% sterile

According to the studies of the European Aviation Safety Agency the air in the aircraft is changed every 2-3 minutes and the filters it goes through are able to eliminate even coronavirus.

The main question nowadays, at the time of global coronavirus outbreak, is whether it is safe to fly or is there a big possibility to get infected while on board? With the connections between China and the rest of the world, many turned their attention to the aircraft cabin, in particular on the air that passengers breathe, sometimes even for as long as 17-18 hours (on intercontinental flights).

It is only reasonable that there are doubts about the aircraft - they are enclosed spaces, where one is in close contact with other travelers, almost all of whom are strangers and whose past, contacts and trips are obviously unknown. Therefore, even the tiniest sneeze or cough worries everyone around.

Studies

IATA, the international association that brings together 300 airlines around the globe confirms that in reality, the air on board is very clean and really safe. To confirm such fact, there are two studies of EASA, the independent European agency for aviation safety, dating back to 2017. Those documents claim that the air quality in the cabin is similar or even better than that normally recorded in indoor environments such as offices, schools and homes. The reason for it is that the aircraft system is designed to circulate air, which is 50% taken from outside and 50% is internal and filtered. In some cases, like Delta Air Lines' Boeing 717s, the air is taken entirely from the outside and adapted to be suitable to breathe inside.

Sophisticated filters

The air on airplanes is highly sterile. The planes, especially the latest generation ones, have efficient and modern filters called high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA), which are identical to those of hospitals and therefore manage to capture and block up to 99.97% of the microbes present (numbers estimated by IATA). A percentage that some companies confirm on their aircraft board rises to 99.999%, thus stopping small viruses of even 0.01 micrometers in diameter, while coronavirus size ranges from 0.08 to 0.16 micrometers. It is important to understand that air filters in aircraft are capable of dealing with far smaller particles than coronavirus, thus it is wrong to assume that airliners are a place for virus to spread freely and unhindered.

Fresh air every 2-3 minutes

Nevertheless, aircraft renews the air in the cabin frequently for it to be fresh and healthy to breathe, which is not usually performed in classrooms, cinemas nor offices. Airbus states that their A350s change all the air in the cabin every 2-3 minutes; similar times are also recorded in the rival Boeing 787. The interior environments of the aircraft are also regularly disinfected. "The risk of contracting the virus from an infected person at high altitude is in all probability lower than that of enclosed spaces, such as offices", continues the IATA representative.

All member airlines are required to regularly update themselves by consulting a special database within the international association, so you can be sure that the information you receive is the latest and always reliable.

"

I really hope this is true.

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By *atBottomGirlsWoman
over a year ago

St Austell-ish


"In a controlled indoor environment, a sneeze can travel up to 23 metres and stay airborne for up to 10 minutes. Maybe the virus is heavy and drops to the ground quickly"

Yes, they are.

See #7

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-facts.html

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