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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians?" It hasn't flattened yet has it? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians?" Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. I don't think that the govern is lying on this regard. They never promised to release the lockdown as soon as the curve flattens. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. I don't think that the govern is lying on this regard. They never promised to release the lockdown as soon as the curve flattens. " "Flattening the curve" was always just one step along the way....it's a long road... | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. " We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide" If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for." But whenever we come out from hiding from the wuhan bat plague there is going to be a second peak. Whether that be next week or next year. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for." Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently?" Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide" So if you end up on a ventilator in ICU will you still be more worried about economic suicide? Now maybe we’re missing the big picture - but the economy depends on people yes ? A company needs people to function. We live in a capitalist society - supply and demand - the demand is people driven. So again , maybe we’re missing the bigger picture , but if you don’t have people , will the economy survive anyway ? And before you retort with a suggestion that there will be more than enough people left in the world to device the economy , how do we actually know that ? Perhaps it’s time to learn from the lessons of the past (i.e. the massive loss of life when restrictions were lifted too swiftly in 1919 during the Spanish Flu pandemic), rather than ignoring them as we, as a species , appear to. For once , we need to lose the “how is this effecting me/what’s in it for me?” attitude, and instead think about how it’s effecting all of us ? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide So if you end up on a ventilator in ICU will you still be more worried about economic suicide? Now maybe we’re missing the big picture - but the economy depends on people yes ? A company needs people to function. We live in a capitalist society - supply and demand - the demand is people driven. So again , maybe we’re missing the bigger picture , but if you don’t have people , will the economy survive anyway ? And before you retort with a suggestion that there will be more than enough people left in the world to device the economy , how do we actually know that ? Perhaps it’s time to learn from the lessons of the past (i.e. the massive loss of life when restrictions were lifted too swiftly in 1919 during the Spanish Flu pandemic), rather than ignoring them as we, as a species , appear to. For once , we need to lose the “how is this effecting me/what’s in it for me?” attitude, and instead think about how it’s effecting all of us ? "  | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? It hasn't flattened yet has it?" Hospital admissions are now on a downward trend, which is good news. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently?" The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe." But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown?" The nhs has been used a political football for years..I think its naive when people say dont bring politics into it. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown?" What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown??" Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. " Thank you... | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. Thank you..." And your point?? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown?" Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. " A lot of people would disagree with you there. Not me however..dunno what's come over me | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw." Let’s not go back to the war. Let’s face it, that wrecked our economy and only finished paying for it under Gordon Brown. My point is, I’m not sure anyone would have dealt with it differently. I’m no lover of the Tories, but I’m sick to death of the ‘We’re just shit’ narrative. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw. Let’s not go back to the war. Let’s face it, that wrecked our economy and only finished paying for it under Gordon Brown. My point is, I’m not sure anyone would have dealt with it differently. I’m no lover of the Tories, but I’m sick to death of the ‘We’re just shit’ narrative. " But surely we can do better?? How can we have done this badly?? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. A lot of people would disagree with you there. Not me however..dunno what's come over me " Don’t do this to me Lionel! We’re agreeing far to much!!!  | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. A lot of people would disagree with you there. Not me however..dunno what's come over me Don’t do this to me Lionel! We’re agreeing far to much!!! "Checks to see if hell has frozen over. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw. Let’s not go back to the war. Let’s face it, that wrecked our economy and only finished paying for it under Gordon Brown. My point is, I’m not sure anyone would have dealt with it differently. I’m no lover of the Tories, but I’m sick to death of the ‘We’re just shit’ narrative. But surely we can do better?? How can we have done this badly??" God yes. So much better. As Lionel said above, the NHS has been a political football for far to long, with all parties. We stick a Health Secretary in for a few years, who fucks it up in their own way before passing it on to another to fuck it up. The NHS (and military) needs to be taken away from politicians. They’re all to bloody useless. We need to find a better way. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? What was the cause of the financial meltdown?? Initially US subprime market. It was a worldwide crisis. A lot of people would disagree with you there. Not me however..dunno what's come over me Don’t do this to me Lionel! We’re agreeing far to much!!!
Checks to see if hell has frozen over." | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw. Let’s not go back to the war. Let’s face it, that wrecked our economy and only finished paying for it under Gordon Brown. My point is, I’m not sure anyone would have dealt with it differently. I’m no lover of the Tories, but I’m sick to death of the ‘We’re just shit’ narrative. But surely we can do better?? How can we have done this badly?? God yes. So much better. As Lionel said above, the NHS has been a political football for far to long, with all parties. We stick a Health Secretary in for a few years, who fucks it up in their own way before passing it on to another to fuck it up. The NHS (and military) needs to be taken away from politicians. They’re all to bloody useless. We need to find a better way. " I agree with you there, NHS, Police, education should be independent of the latest political party. Each political party has they our own 4/5 year agenda. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Italy isn't the 5th largest economy in the world, it was the first in Europe to have a strong outbreak, but still they handled the situation better, so far. Clearly we can factor in some bad luck, but we can't pretend that the situation in UK couldn't have been handled better. My "you get what you vote for" was referred to the past that took us here. Not to the last elections. Not even to the last decade fwiw. Let’s not go back to the war. Let’s face it, that wrecked our economy and only finished paying for it under Gordon Brown. My point is, I’m not sure anyone would have dealt with it differently. I’m no lover of the Tories, but I’m sick to death of the ‘We’re just shit’ narrative. But surely we can do better?? How can we have done this badly?? God yes. So much better. As Lionel said above, the NHS has been a political football for far to long, with all parties. We stick a Health Secretary in for a few years, who fucks it up in their own way before passing it on to another to fuck it up. The NHS (and military) needs to be taken away from politicians. They’re all to bloody useless. We need to find a better way. I agree with you there, NHS, Police, education should be independent of the latest political party. Each political party has they our own 4/5 year agenda. " Public services are supposed to be apolitical.However because the gmnt decides how much each department gets..its bound to be political. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. I don't think that the govern is lying on this regard. They never promised to release the lockdown as soon as the curve flattens. " According to the daily figures provided by Worldometers, Italy’s death rate was above 700 from 24th March to 3rd April = 11 consecutive days. It peaked at 919 and there were 3 days above 800. The UK has had 17 days where the figures have been above 700. The UK is currently about 800 ahead of where Italy was in the corresponding point in the pandemic. | |||
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"It is political though and it always will be. New government, new direction, irrespective of whether what was in place was right or wrong. " Yep. And the privitasion issue muddies the issue further. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? " Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place." What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. " Agreed, all this blame is helping nobody. The Tories aren't the only party that have underfunded the nhs and they won't be the last. This situation could have been handled better but it also could have been much worse. I'm choosing to stay positive instead of wallowing in self pity and hatred. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ?" I can't believe I'm having to break the news about austerity to somebody....wow, some people are so far down the rabbit hole it's staggering | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. " I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. " So how is a bunch of swingers moaning going to stop the government screwing up? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians?" So what would you suggest, have you modelled your suggestion financially and in terms of deaths and nhs workload. Please share Thanks | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians?" It's weird but as someone working in the centre of this shitstorm there was always going to be a need to avoid or minimize a second peak. The initial priority was always to slow and then flatten the the first peak. I'm not sure how or when you've been lied to? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. So how is a bunch of swingers moaning going to stop the government screwing up? " Sorry, I thought it was a forum?? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. So how is a bunch of swingers moaning going to stop the government screwing up? Sorry, I thought it was a forum??" Yes it is. I was asking you a question about your response. You say scrutinizing is to prevent screwing up next time. How is YOU continually scrutinizing the government and telling everyone how terrible they are preventing anyone screwing up? I'm genuinely interested in what you think you're achieving by constantly posting negativity. | |||
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"Our government may not be perfect but at least they are doing what is needed rather than trying to pass the buck. There will be plenty of time for judgement in years to come when we can compare like with like rather than making rash judgements." Johnson has been passing the buck his whole life. I just hope he has genuinely changed this time. Good thing is, he seems to be ignoring the wishes of the Tory grandees, for now at least | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ?" I knew it couldnt last  | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. So how is a bunch of swingers moaning going to stop the government screwing up? Sorry, I thought it was a forum?? Yes it is. I was asking you a question about your response. You say scrutinizing is to prevent screwing up next time. How is YOU continually scrutinizing the government and telling everyone how terrible they are preventing anyone screwing up? I'm genuinely interested in what you think you're achieving by constantly posting negativity. " I'm genuinely interested in why you don't like scrutiny?? | |||
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"Our government may not be perfect but at least they are doing what is needed rather than trying to pass the buck. There will be plenty of time for judgement in years to come when we can compare like with like rather than making rash judgements." Seriously? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ?" It’s never happened, but for some reason the majority (on here) won’t believe it | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? It’s never happened, but for some reason the majority (on here) won’t believe it" Austerity was a dream, sorry, nightmare.. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? It’s never happened, but for some reason the majority (on here) won’t believe it" What's never happened? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? It’s never happened, but for some reason the majority (on here) won’t believe it Austerity was a dream, sorry, nightmare.." Where did I mention austerity? I was merely pointing out that since inception there has never been a year where the funding was less than it was the year before. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? I can't believe I'm having to break the news about austerity to somebody....wow, some people are so far down the rabbit hole it's staggering " So you cant point to a single time when the nhs has been given less money than the year before. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. I say again, the 5th largest economy and one of the worst outcomes. We have been let down by various governments over the years. Scrutinizing is not self pity. You scrutinize in order not to screw up the next time. So how is a bunch of swingers moaning going to stop the government screwing up? Sorry, I thought it was a forum?? Yes it is. I was asking you a question about your response. You say scrutinizing is to prevent screwing up next time. How is YOU continually scrutinizing the government and telling everyone how terrible they are preventing anyone screwing up? I'm genuinely interested in what you think you're achieving by constantly posting negativity. I'm genuinely interested in why you don't like scrutiny??" I don't like the constant nastiness and negativity, there's enough crap going on without it all the time here. So, could you do me the decency of answering my question now? | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days " It's not empathy though, you just slag the government off, not offer any comfort or understanding to anyone. | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days " The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. " The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff." In emergencies that's what you do, add temporary extra capacity. There's plenty of available staff if needed. Thankfully it wasn't needed yet but it's a long way from over. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff." Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? Nothing, may have locked down sooner. But the NHS was decimated way before all this with 9 years of cuts. All governments have underfunded certain areas. This virus has highlighted the weaknesses in our systems. Countries like Vietnam and Korea have shown how far behind we are. 5th biggest economy we are told, can't even get an effective test regime in place. What cuts ? Which government has ever put in less money than the year before ? I can't believe I'm having to break the news about austerity to somebody....wow, some people are so far down the rabbit hole it's staggering So you cant point to a single time when the nhs has been given less money than the year before." There has probably never been a drop in the total monies put in, I agree, but there has been an expected increase of activity for the same amount of money. Increase of beds but no staff, cutting critical care beds because they don’t have the staff to staff them safely but with the same patient numbers. Cuts don’t necessarily mean a reduction in money. Although I would argue cutting bursaries for nursing students was a big financial cut and yes I am fully aware that some of it has been replaced. You have to replace us old nurses in the future and this did not help, as well as making it a degree programme at 9k a year. Cuts don’t always mean money in to something as I’ve said. | |||
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"Between 2015 and 2020 The budget for public healthcare care in England has been cut by £850 million (25% cut In real terms) The biggest hit have been mental health,sexual health and drug and alcohol addictions. Source nhsfunding.info. " So if £850m is 25% then the original budget was £3.4b? What happened to the other £120 billion? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. " Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option." FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option." There are ICU beds complete with ventilatory support in designated nightingale hospitals and yes there were beds for others. But there were ICU beds. And in an emergency, yes, anywhere can be a hospital. But this emergency does not required theatres as surgery is not a requirement in the clinical pathway of the disease. As for staffing existing staff who are redeployed, including medics are available as wards are shut due to the crisis. Volunteers and army personnel are deployed also. It’s not just retired personnel. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? " That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else. | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it " That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else." All I have to say to you is WOW! I look forward to reading your proposal that you meticulously wrote before the pandemic began on how you would deal with this situation. I’m waited with baited breath and I’m positively drenched at the thought of reading such beautiful words written in a clear and concise way. Where you tell us how you lead the country from beginning to end | |||
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"Between 2015 and 2020 The budget for public healthcare care in England has been cut by £850 million (25% cut In real terms) The biggest hit have been mental health,sexual health and drug and alcohol addictions. Source nhsfunding.info. So if £850m is 25% then the original budget was £3.4b? What happened to the other £120 billion? " Dunno..just got that info.from The site | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. " So it was the nhs who organised the nightingale hospitals but the government who didnt order the ppe ? I know the government cant do anything right in your eyes. I notice you haven't provide the evidence to show where the nhs funds were cut year on year. As for death rates until this time next year and every country has figures to compare death rates year on year no one knows how many have died in any country from or with covid, | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else. All I have to say to you is WOW! I look forward to reading your proposal that you meticulously wrote before the pandemic began on how you would deal with this situation. I’m waited with baited breath and I’m positively drenched at the thought of reading such beautiful words written in a clear and concise way. Where you tell us how you lead the country from beginning to end "Thank you | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else." But the nightingale hospitals were never set up for surgery? So I don't understand you comment about using operating theatres in real hospitals being better? Oh and plenty of elective surgery is going on in private hospitals... | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else. But the nightingale hospitals were never set up for surgery? So I don't understand you comment about using operating theatres in real hospitals being better? Oh and plenty of elective surgery is going on in private hospitals..." They use operation theaters as extra ICU beds. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently? The issues NHS is facing now grew from seeds planted many years ago. And I have absolutely no idea what would have happened if Labour won the last elections. It could've been better, worst or the same. I don't have a crystal ball, I can only comment about what happened in this universe. But you said ‘You get what you vote for’. That suggests you think another party might have been better. Seeds planted many years ago? What? Like a financial meltdown? Germany is just a stone's throw from here. They had the same financial crisis the rest of the world had and they started their economy from a very very bad situation after the war. If they managed to have 25000 ventilators and 500000 tests per week, why we didn't? Germany had the infrastructure in place already. For testing they have Roche and about another 100 labs to call in for the testing. Roche I believe developed one of the first fast tests available. We don’t have that and you until now probably never needed it. The German labs for testing are phenomenal and are well advanced to cope with this. We don’t have that infrastructure because it’s been underfunded for many years. Germany always had way more critical care beds per capita than us. They have always had more than was needed but instead of cutting them they have kept them in place. Where as underfunding in the NHS would mean if you don’t use it you lose it. They weren’t ahead of the game in this they are just ahead of the game, full stop. Not because of planning but because of how it was. They had to ramp there testing up dramatically at the beginning of April and they did so effectively. We managed to increase our critical care beds and testing in a short period of time. May not be as quick as some would like but hospitals were built in days. And thankfully they are not being used to any capacity but they are there. We need to stop comparing apples and oranges in this. We can learn from other countries but if we don’t have the infrastructure they have we have deal with it in different ways. The lack of infrastructure was exactly my point. Also they didn't build any hospital. They put many beds in a conference hall without staff. Yes they did build hospitals with out theatres but for all intense purposes they are hospitals. Some with critical care capacity and some not. All can be staffed if the beds, critical or non critical, are needed. Well for an arbitrarily vague definition of hospital everything is an hospital. On my book, operation theatres and ICU are necessary in an hospital. Those structure were equipped to assist people that were already recovering and are not used mostly because people is sent to recover at home or in care homes (with the results that we know). I don't even try to refute the claim that they can be easily staffed if needed as the NHS is already under staffed. And no, retired personnel isn't a good option. FFS. The NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed and you’re still whinging? Would you like a hospital with theatres and everything sitting around, mothballed, just in case? That is not what I said. I'm saying that claiming that you built an hospital when all you did was put some hospital beds in a place that is designed to be easily re-adapted is just propaganda. And as you said, completely not useful: people had elective surgery denied anyway (because using operation theatres in real hospital is better) and recovering people has been sent to care homes to kill everyone else. But the nightingale hospitals were never set up for surgery? So I don't understand you comment about using operating theatres in real hospitals being better? Oh and plenty of elective surgery is going on in private hospitals... They use operation theaters as extra ICU beds." Where? | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide So if you end up on a ventilator in ICU will you still be more worried about economic suicide? Now maybe we’re missing the big picture - but the economy depends on people yes ? A company needs people to function. We live in a capitalist society - supply and demand - the demand is people driven. So again , maybe we’re missing the bigger picture , but if you don’t have people , will the economy survive anyway ? And before you retort with a suggestion that there will be more than enough people left in the world to device the economy , how do we actually know that ? Perhaps it’s time to learn from the lessons of the past (i.e. the massive loss of life when restrictions were lifted too swiftly in 1919 during the Spanish Flu pandemic), rather than ignoring them as we, as a species , appear to. For once , we need to lose the “how is this effecting me/what’s in it for me?” attitude, and instead think about how it’s effecting all of us ? " Well said! | |||
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"Smoke less " why if it makes you happy in this madness | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. " Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. " Figures not included from care homes or deaths at home. https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. " For the record, going from the data on worldometer, our deaths per 1million people is lower than France, Spain, Italy and Belgium. Our critical cases are lower too. | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. Figures not included from care homes or deaths at home. https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab" Estimated figures  | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. For the record, going from the data on worldometer, our deaths per 1million people is lower than France, Spain, Italy and Belgium. Our critical cases are lower too. " Read the article. I dunno, The FT is pretty reputable but what does that matter these days. I despair.. | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. Figures not included from care homes or deaths at home. https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab Estimated figures "We are not including care home figures for a start. Why is this so hard for you to believe??? I don't want it to be higher,I wish to god it wasn't!! | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player" So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? | |||
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"Reason is, I think all of us deserve better. People have died that probably didn't need to. Hey, call it empathy, very unfashionable these days The nhs has so far not run out of ventilator or bed capacity, so if people have died that didnt need to you must be claiming that the nhs is responsible for those deaths, so much for your claimed support for it That was the NHS reorganising itself, nothing to do with the Government. I know they can do no wrong in your eyes. Highest death rate in Europe and rivalling USA for the world, but crack on with that tribal mind set. Your evidence? All ive seen us headlines saying the UK 'could' have the highest death rate but that they don't actually know. Figures not included from care homes or deaths at home. https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab Estimated figures
We are not including care home figures for a start. Why is this so hard for you to believe??? I don't want it to be higher,I wish to god it wasn't!!"I do believe it, but you can't take an estimate and tell me it's fact because it isn't. It's some guy saying that's what he thinks is true. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/" Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing. | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh?" Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing. "Christ, these are experts. | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful." What did someone say before..at least our gmnt are being upfront with us? | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts. "That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have. | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful." Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. " I posted those figures before? | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before?" That is not nhs spending as you well know | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before? That is not nhs spending as you well know " The ones from a website called www.nhsinfo.com? | |||
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"They've not had a plan since January and likely still don't. We're not leading the world with our response" I don't want the UK Government to lead the world. I want them to lead the UK electorate . | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have. "'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before? That is not nhs spending as you well know The ones from a website called www.nhsinfo.com?" So you think the nhs spend is under 4 billion a year ? | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today"Have you found the nhs cuts yet ? | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before? That is not nhs spending as you well know The ones from a website called www.nhsinfo.com? So you think the nhs spend is under 4 billion a year ? " I've no idea what it is..hence The research. | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians? Well we didn't do the flattening part particularly well. Italy had its death toll above 700 for 2 weeks, we are about to start our 4th week with numbers above 700. The lockdown can't be released now, with the current numbers it's impossible to do contact tracing etc. It would be a mass suicide. We are committing economic suicide. I'm not convinced what we are doing is better in the long run than economic suicide If business were forced to close because half their staff was sick or dead the situation wouldn't be better. Sparing some money on NHS in the past will force us to spend much more money in the future to repay the debt that we are making now. You get what you vote for. Ok. Let’s go with you. Everyone voted for Labour in December. What do you think would of happened differently?" Bojo wouldnt have faked illness. He wouldnt have run off and hid for x amount of weeks, what was it three? Only thing we could realistically say is what may have happened. We may have had a faster response and not the herd immunity idea. We would still have the issue of covid cant deny that. I am no lover of the Tories nor Labour and hopefully before much longer I wont have to care about either. It really is a shame that Britain is stuck with those two as the major parties when neither is of any use. 
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before? That is not nhs spending as you well know The ones from a website called www.nhsinfo.com? So you think the nhs spend is under 4 billion a year ? I've no idea what it is..hence The research." Well you wont get many points in an exam if you cant find facts better than the one you posted. Try £134 billion this year. Due to the virus its likely to be higher than that though | |||
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"When this all started it was all about flattening the curve. When the curve had been flattened it was suddenly about preventing a second peak. Are you happy about being lied to and treated like an idiot by politicians?" . Asswipe. !!!!!!!! | |||
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"Watch today's Panorama and you'll see how well how government has planned it all. Catch up on BBC I player So to sum up. They have deliberately lied over the amount of ppe that they have provided. They were told as last late as feb we desperately needed to restock.They did fuck all. They have provided out of date ppe. And they have threatened people with speaking out. Still those fucking dancing nurses eh? Lionel, we are fighting a losing battle here. People just don't want to see it, it's too painful. Still waiting for you to show us the actual year on year cuts to the NHS you claimed the government has made since 2010. I posted those figures before? That is not nhs spending as you well know The ones from a website called www.nhsinfo.com? So you think the nhs spend is under 4 billion a year ? I've no idea what it is..hence The research. Well you wont get many points in an exam if you cant find facts better than the one you posted. Try £134 billion this year. Due to the virus its likely to be higher than that though" So NHS info is publishing factually incorrect info? The figures I posted were 2015/16 to 2020. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today"You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity? | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity? "Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity? "some just insist on it. We dont have correct figures for a lot of things. People seem to be prepared to believe the negative figures but not listen when alternative arguments are made... we know many more have been infected... and now its looking like the virus has been around for a while longer than we first thought. No where concentrates on the numbers recovered.. and of we knew the true number of infected and recovered maybe it wouldnt seem so scary... | |||
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"They are not including care home deaths, agreed? The number is therefore higher than the figures show. I know it's hard to think that Boris and co had no plan and ignored all the warnings. The bloke was shaking hands with patients, he didn't take it seriously at all. I just think we all deserve better. If you don't, well I just don't get that logic. I hope you and your family stay well " The FT article, and the figure they estimate, is based on ONS numbers which do include all deaths outside of hospital. The FT estimate is an extrapolation of the ONS figures, which are yet to be verified by actual deaths. When the ONS release the weekly death rates tomorrow, then it will be possible to see if the FT extrapolation is correct. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity?
Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe."I'm not asking for your help, I'm not burying my head, I'm looking at the big picture, not just speculation and predictions. You still won't answer any questions I've asked in this thread and others, I wonder why that is. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity?
Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe.
I'm not asking for your help, I'm not burying my head, I'm looking at the big picture, not just speculation and predictions.
You still won't answer any questions I've asked in this thread and others, I wonder why that is. "Because I'm angry. I'm angry that people have died that didn't need to. I'm angry that NHS workers have died that didn't need to. You should be too. I get utterly fucking pissed off at being accused of not liking my country because of asking my we have one of the highest death rates despite being told we were one of the best prepared. Now, I can give you any number of sources and statistics or facts, but your Tory/Boris scarf is so welded to your neck that you will not even possibly concede that this government made the slightest error in handling this crises. Even The Daily Mail is criticising the whole PPE debacle today. Piers Morgan, normally a Trump and Boris fan boy, had turned because he can see what has happened. Fascinating seeing him being turned on by the Boris Brigade on Twitter! If 'looking at the big picture' means missing out crucial aspects that cost lives, well carry on. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it. Free country. Have a marvelous day. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity?
Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe.
I'm not asking for your help, I'm not burying my head, I'm looking at the big picture, not just speculation and predictions.
You still won't answer any questions I've asked in this thread and others, I wonder why that is.
Because I'm angry. I'm angry that people have died that didn't need to. I'm angry that NHS workers have died that didn't need to. You should be too. I get utterly fucking pissed off at being accused of not liking my country because of asking my we have one of the highest death rates despite being told we were one of the best prepared. Now, I can give you any number of sources and statistics or facts, but your Tory/Boris scarf is so welded to your neck that you will not even possibly concede that this government made the slightest error in handling this crises. Even The Daily Mail is criticising the whole PPE debacle today. Piers Morgan, normally a Trump and Boris fan boy, had turned because he can see what has happened. Fascinating seeing him being turned on by the Boris Brigade on Twitter! If 'looking at the big picture' means missing out crucial aspects that cost lives, well carry on. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it. Free country. Have a marvelous day."You haven't given me statistics and facts, you've given me speculation, your political hatred shines through glaringly. On multiple other threads I've stated that there have been mistakes made and that certain things could have been done better and sooner. However, they have also done things right, focusing on positives is helping me to get through this crap time. Me bitching about the government changes nothing, same as you bitching changes nothing. All it does is spread worry and stress, you might want to sit and wallow in anger and discontent but I don't, I want to try and get through this with as much of myself and my mood intact as possible. For the record, I'm not a Tory, I'm just not blinded by hatred. | |||
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"Some analysis ... https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article “the data does not clearly show that healthcare workers are dying at rates proportionately higher than other employed individuals or even the population as a whole. Again, this is cautiously reassuring.” " Oh look, real evidence with facts and figures, not just guesswork and speculation. | |||
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"Some analysis ... https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article “the data does not clearly show that healthcare workers are dying at rates proportionately higher than other employed individuals or even the population as a whole. Again, this is cautiously reassuring.” Oh look, real evidence with facts and figures, not just guesswork and speculation. " You seem extremely biased. The research itself highlights the various issues with their dataset. But okay.... | |||
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"Some analysis ... https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article “the data does not clearly show that healthcare workers are dying at rates proportionately higher than other employed individuals or even the population as a whole. Again, this is cautiously reassuring.” Oh look, real evidence with facts and figures, not just guesswork and speculation. You seem extremely biased. The research itself highlights the various issues with their dataset. But okay.... " It was more a comment about the fact there are facts and figures, not the actual study itself. | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity?
Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe.
I'm not asking for your help, I'm not burying my head, I'm looking at the big picture, not just speculation and predictions.
You still won't answer any questions I've asked in this thread and others, I wonder why that is.
Because I'm angry. I'm angry that people have died that didn't need to. I'm angry that NHS workers have died that didn't need to. You should be too. I get utterly fucking pissed off at being accused of not liking my country because of asking my we have one of the highest death rates despite being told we were one of the best prepared. Now, I can give you any number of sources and statistics or facts, but your Tory/Boris scarf is so welded to your neck that you will not even possibly concede that this government made the slightest error in handling this crises. Even The Daily Mail is criticising the whole PPE debacle today. Piers Morgan, normally a Trump and Boris fan boy, had turned because he can see what has happened. Fascinating seeing him being turned on by the Boris Brigade on Twitter! If 'looking at the big picture' means missing out crucial aspects that cost lives, well carry on. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it. Free country. Have a marvelous day.
You haven't given me statistics and facts, you've given me speculation, your political hatred shines through glaringly. On multiple other threads I've stated that there have been mistakes made and that certain things could have been done better and sooner. However, they have also done things right, focusing on positives is helping me to get through this crap time. Me bitching about the government changes nothing, same as you bitching changes nothing.
All it does is spread worry and stress, you might want to sit and wallow in anger and discontent but I don't, I want to try and get through this with as much of myself and my mood intact as possible.
For the record, I'm not a Tory, I'm just not blinded by hatred.
"It's fine I totally take you over The Financial Times. You only like things that support your view. It's cool | |||
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"https://time.com/5823215/uk-death-rate-coronavirus-highest-europe/ Yet another article without facts, just more people guessing.
Christ, these are experts.
That are guessing! It's alot of might and could. You said the UK has the highest death rate in Europe, not it might have. You haven't shown a single bit of proof where any expert says we do have the highest death rate, just that we might or could have.
'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'......second time today
You haven't provided evidence, you've provided guesswork and speculation. You also didn't answer my earlier question, why do you insist on spreading negativity?
Keely, I can't help you. Bury your head if it makes you feel better, just stay safe.
I'm not asking for your help, I'm not burying my head, I'm looking at the big picture, not just speculation and predictions.
You still won't answer any questions I've asked in this thread and others, I wonder why that is.
Because I'm angry. I'm angry that people have died that didn't need to. I'm angry that NHS workers have died that didn't need to. You should be too. I get utterly fucking pissed off at being accused of not liking my country because of asking my we have one of the highest death rates despite being told we were one of the best prepared. Now, I can give you any number of sources and statistics or facts, but your Tory/Boris scarf is so welded to your neck that you will not even possibly concede that this government made the slightest error in handling this crises. Even The Daily Mail is criticising the whole PPE debacle today. Piers Morgan, normally a Trump and Boris fan boy, had turned because he can see what has happened. Fascinating seeing him being turned on by the Boris Brigade on Twitter! If 'looking at the big picture' means missing out crucial aspects that cost lives, well carry on. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it. Free country. Have a marvelous day.
You haven't given me statistics and facts, you've given me speculation, your political hatred shines through glaringly. On multiple other threads I've stated that there have been mistakes made and that certain things could have been done better and sooner. However, they have also done things right, focusing on positives is helping me to get through this crap time. Me bitching about the government changes nothing, same as you bitching changes nothing.
All it does is spread worry and stress, you might want to sit and wallow in anger and discontent but I don't, I want to try and get through this with as much of myself and my mood intact as possible.
For the record, I'm not a Tory, I'm just not blinded by hatred.
It's fine I totally take you over The Financial Times. You only like things that support your view. It's cool"I could say the same about you. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ You can clearly see we aren't the worst hit in Europe. | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. " I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care" Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician " Ohh, the rabid Boris fans are back. Austerity didn't happen, it was all a figment of our imaginations. Right oh... | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician Ohh, the rabid Boris fans are back. Austerity didn't happen, it was all a figment of our imaginations. Right oh..." Who said austerity didnt happen and Boris has only been in charge for a short while, have you found the years of the nhs cuts yet ? You can keep ignoring the question but the only person you are conning is yourself | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician Ohh, the rabid Boris fans are back. Austerity didn't happen, it was all a figment of our imaginations. Right oh... Who said austerity didnt happen and Boris has only been in charge for a short while, have you found the years of the nhs cuts yet ? You can keep ignoring the question but the only person you are conning is yourself " Ok, so tell me a out the years of austerity. Explain how in real terms, funding for the NHS was not cut. Change my mind. See, unlike you, I'm open to having my mind changed. So, go through it. | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician Ohh, the rabid Boris fans are back. Austerity didn't happen, it was all a figment of our imaginations. Right oh... Who said austerity didnt happen and Boris has only been in charge for a short while, have you found the years of the nhs cuts yet ? You can keep ignoring the question but the only person you are conning is yourself Ok, so tell me a out the years of austerity. Explain how in real terms, funding for the NHS was not cut. Change my mind. See, unlike you, I'm open to having my mind changed. So, go through it. " Check out full fact and the kings fund they both show that funding increased every year after allowing for inflation | |||
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"That is the last post I'll make on this thread, predictions and guesses aren't facts, whatever you want to believe. I have my own views on this, you have yours, we don't agree. I will continue being positive and hopeful that the situation will keep improving, you can continue with your negativity and loathing of the government. Enjoy. I've actually been defended Matt Hancock if you took the time to read. I hope you stay safe and all your family, others haven't been so lucky. At least some people want answers and not pretend its all fine and dandy. Take care Your right we do want answers like which years did the nhs get less money than the year before. How many times can you ignore a simple question ? You would make a good politician Ohh, the rabid Boris fans are back. Austerity didn't happen, it was all a figment of our imaginations. Right oh... Who said austerity didnt happen and Boris has only been in charge for a short while, have you found the years of the nhs cuts yet ? You can keep ignoring the question but the only person you are conning is yourself Ok, so tell me a out the years of austerity. Explain how in real terms, funding for the NHS was not cut. Change my mind. See, unlike you, I'm open to having my mind changed. So, go through it. Check out full fact and the kings fund they both show that funding increased every year after allowing for inflation" https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget | |||
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