FabSwingers.com forum: I smell bullshit

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Much of the out of date stock was tested and re-certified for reuse.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I imagine that a stock of ppe is kept and maintained as part of the regular emergency and disaster planning that's carried out by authorities. But I imagine a lot of things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions. "

You seem surprised that you smell bullshit when Michael Gove is about...

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Yes. It was from out of date (but re-tested stock) and sent as a Humanitarian Response to China.

It was sent with the best of intention.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions.

You seem surprised that you smell bullshit when Michael Gove is about..."

I expect bullshit of a subtle nature, not a great big turd waved under my nose

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes. It was from out of date (but re-tested stock) and sent as a Humanitarian Response to China.

It was sent with the best of intention. "

I wasn't questioning that whatsoever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard! "

I wouldn't state we had a pandemic stock if we didn't have.

I'd prefer honest politicians who admit to their failings. In this case I am simply picking on the terminology used rather than what the government has/is/will be doing.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

I wouldn't state we had a pandemic stock if we didn't have.

I'd prefer honest politicians who admit to their failings. In this case I am simply picking on the terminology used rather than what the government has/is/will be doing. "

But we did have a pandemic stock. Just not at the level required for the current crisis.

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By *ucianpoundCouple
over a year ago

Cap d’Agde, France

Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses.

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By *layfullsamMan
over a year ago

Solihull

The problem you had with PPE especially the masks which started being traded as if it was gold with fluctuating prices etc

Buyers had agreed deals and were then being gazumped by a higher bid.

People who have never sold PPE in the UK before are trying to buy stocks in the hope of making a quick buck.

A friend of mine is involved in it as his job and he's had numerous brokers trying to set up deals, the last time was 20 million in a couple of weeks and a production run of 80 million to follow in three weeks.

You have to show you have funds available and if not they move on.

Can't believe the government don't ban trading in PPE unless you've always done it and then they buy the masks directly from the factory for the NHS so no one gets rich out of the misery and the NHS get them at cost or foc

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses."

He certainly isn't a Pierce Morgan.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I wouldn't state we had a pandemic stock if we didn't have.

I'd prefer honest politicians who admit to their failings. In this case I am simply picking on the terminology used rather than what the government has/is/will be doing.

But we did have a pandemic stock. Just not at the level required for the current crisis."

And you know that how?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I wouldn't state we had a pandemic stock if we didn't have.

I'd prefer honest politicians who admit to their failings. In this case I am simply picking on the terminology used rather than what the government has/is/will be doing.

But we did have a pandemic stock. Just not at the level required for the current crisis.

And you know that how? "

I can imagine emergency/reserved stock for use at a time of any crisis. Just not one at a national level. My reasoning is that shortages were announced at the time of promised deliveries in the first instance, NOT of subsequent replacements.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

And you know that how? "

As I can't post links, just do a quick search around government websites they are esay to find.

Every western country keeps a pandemic stock - arguments over how much should be kept is usually politically driven and then usually against the party in power by those who do not favour them being in power - people shouldn't pretend for a second that any government colour has failing in anything they do when called upon suddenly to do it in extremis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard! "

Are the government doing a good job?

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Furthermore - the fact that we sent 290 thousand items to China is proof of Pandemic Stock Keeping by the UK government.

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By *adame 2SwordsWoman
over a year ago

Victoria, London

And of course we all have our own personal pandemic stocks, because we all plan for these events.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions. "

Was his mouth open and lips moving?

That's usually a good clue there's some bullshit forthcoming......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And of course we all have our own personal pandemic stocks, because we all plan for these events."

I have masks and gloves I bought in February , didn’t you bother buying any??

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

And you know that how?

As I can't post links, just do a quick search around government websites they are esay to find.

They said this morning that they prepare for flu not for an unknown virus. I think that is significant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions.

Was his mouth open and lips moving?

That's usually a good clue there's some bullshit forthcoming......

To be fair, even when he isn’t talking you can smell the bullshit

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"The problem you had with PPE especially the masks which started being traded as if it was gold with fluctuating prices etc

Buyers had agreed deals and were then being gazumped by a higher bid.

People who have never sold PPE in the UK before are trying to buy stocks in the hope of making a quick buck.

You have to show you have funds available and if not they move on.

I agree with this and is one aspect of the ppe industry iceberg.

For those who are in the industry, or used to be, it must be very frustrating reading so many opinions that are factually wrong.

This is also true for those who have huge amounts of experience dealing with global production and sourcing.

The worst part of it is there is very good factual, experience based information out there - but then that doesn’t sell papers or increase paywall subscriptions

Frustrating times

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

They said this morning that they prepare for flu not for an unknown virus. I think that is significant. "

PPE stock to protect against flu would protect against COVID.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard! "

Who is working "dam hard to keep us safe” and being criticised?

Because I too would be against such behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I imagine that a stock of ppe is kept and maintained as part of the regular emergency and disaster planning that's carried out by authorities. But I imagine a lot of things"

Most hospitals and GP surgeries keep a stock of PPE for emergencies but that stock is not huge. It's meant to keep them going for a few days until the government can provide proper stocking levels.

I know that round here the hospitals kept their PPE up to date but GP surgeries (small businesses lest we forget) did not. When they asked PHE for advice they were told to get rid of out of date stock as it wouldn't be effective.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And you know that how?

As I can't post links, just do a quick search around government websites they are esay to find.

Absolutely, now is not the time for political goal scoring.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Furthermore - the fact that we sent 290 thousand items to China is proof of Pandemic Stock Keeping by the UK government. "

Gove stated it wasn't from the "pandemic stock".

Not that politicians ever tell falsehoods

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Gove on Andrew Marr's show - the stock of ppe we sent to China in Feb did not come from our pandemic stock.

What pandemic stock?

PPE, like dressings etc, have expiry dates, so we may have reserved stocks (I imagine are circulated within x amount of time of expiry date) but not a stock of pandemic proportions.

Was his mouth open and lips moving?

That's usually a good clue there's some bullshit forthcoming......

I shouldn't but

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard! "

Have you read the article he is referencing?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"And of course we all have our own personal pandemic stocks, because we all plan for these events.

I have masks and gloves I bought in February , didn’t you bother buying any?? "

I bought mine in October I think - oh wait, they're gardening gloves, face asks and goggles whilst burning garden waste

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I wouldn't state we had a pandemic stock if we didn't have.

I'd prefer honest politicians who admit to their failings. In this case I am simply picking on the terminology used rather than what the government has/is/will be doing.

But we did have a pandemic stock. Just not at the level required for the current crisis."

They were warned in jan the stock was low.

They were told we were going to be hit by it.Not only did they ignore the warnings..They sent loads of stock overseas.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Furthermore - the fact that we sent 290 thousand items to China is proof of Pandemic Stock Keeping by the UK government.

Gove stated it wasn't from the "pandemic stock".

Not that politicians ever tell falsehoods

It was out of date - so it couldn't have been used.

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By *uliaChrisCouple
over a year ago

westerham

"I imagine that a stock of ppe is kept and maintained as part of the regular emergency and disaster planning that's carried out by authorities. But I imagine a lot of things"

I read that as “a stock of rope is kept...” which is probably more accurate for our disaster response planning. Bit of rope will sort everything out lol.

I do recall when foot and mouth disease hit in 2001, the government was clueless about what to do, months later turned out there was a prior lessons learned report from about 1975 sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And you know that how?

As I can't post links, just do a quick search around government websites they are esay to find.

They said this morning that they prepare for flu not for an unknown virus. I think that is significant. "

And yet not evidence of potential pandemic preparedness. The point is that a new/novel/unknown virus is exactly that new/novel unknown and hence no immunity present in the population I think this is an example of subtle bullshit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I imagine that a stock of ppe is kept and maintained as part of the regular emergency and disaster planning that's carried out by authorities. But I imagine a lot of things

Most hospitals and GP surgeries keep a stock of PPE for emergencies but that stock is not huge. It's meant to keep them going for a few days until the government can provide proper stocking levels.

But better than none I'll assume. Perhaps there should be a move to test out of date ppe and hopefully remove the necessity of expiry dates (on items that do not biodegrade naturally).

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I find it very sad that people are sat in their arm chairs hidden behind a keyboard criticising those people who are working so damn hard to keep us safe.

Yes, I am sure that mistakes will be made, lessons will be learnt, but what would you do? Oh yes, that would be criticise hidden behind your keyboard!

Have you read the article he is referencing?"

Who, what, where (or pun of wear

I thought the poster was taking a cheap shot at me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses.

He certainly isn't a Pierce Morgan. "

Thank your lucky stars that Labour didn't get it or this interview might have been with Diane Abbot

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Thank God we have a home secretary who is great with figures.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science."

Ah but the test of the world have governments in the same situation.

But most seem to be doing a far better job then ours!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science."

There's a lot of evidence floating about at the moment to show our government completely failed to work hard at this when they had the opportunity to make a real difference.

The reason airline travel is so safe is that the airline companies train and prepare for there being a problem at any moment. They don't wait until a plane's engines stop mid-flight before deciding to have a meeting to plan what they will do about it.

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By *ab_SparklesWoman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

If the guy needs help being held up pissed out of his tree in the house of commons, dually spotted doing so. I think I'll pass on believing anything Grove says.

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By *lixerMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

This has shown us just how awful the bunch of Anglo Brexit Spivs who are supposedly our government actually are. That Gove is the best of then tells you everything.

England voted for them to, ahem, Get Brexit Done. And they were the very rotten bastards for that job. For this, they are so clueless that future generations will laugh themselves silly when they read about 2020 in their history books.

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Say again? lol

4 crashes in 2020

15 in 2019

20 in 2018

11 in 2017

24 in 2016

. . . . .

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

When this all first kicked off and the government started with daily briefings etc..

All the action plans I was quite vocal in their defence ( I don't vote Tory btw) in giving them the chance to sort this out and have the people's best interests at heart.

As time has gone by I have become more and more cynical and now mistrust them deeply to tell the truth about anything.

In hindsight I should have looked at the past with the absolute debacle that is Brexit and how much that's taken to get sorted.

The only people I trust to tell the truth are the scientific advisors and then how much is diluted.

For the most part we as a nation have been left to get on with it.

So ok I'll admit that the job retention scheme is a good idea plus many of the financial stuff put in place but it all smack's of last minute ideas rather than a pre planned procedure that has been practiced and ready for action at a moment's notice.

We are supposed to be one of the richest countries on the planet yet we are asking NHS staff to reuse PPE and all the bullshit about testing....

It would be great if someone just stood there and told us the truth.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science."

It's likely to be the hardest working government in peacetime. I wonder if any will retire or not restand for their constituency, with the silent thought "fuck me, I never became an MP to work my socks off like every other fucker in the country"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"When this all first kicked off and the government started with daily briefings etc..

All the action plans I was quite vocal in their defence ( I don't vote Tory btw) in giving them the chance to sort this out and have the people's best interests at heart.

As time has gone by I have become more and more cynical and now mistrust them deeply to tell the truth about anything.

In hindsight I should have looked at the past with the absolute debacle that is Brexit and how much that's taken to get sorted.

The only people I trust to tell the truth are the scientific advisors and then how much is diluted.

For the most part we as a nation have been left to get on with it.

We are supposed to be one of the richest countries on the planet yet we are asking NHS staff to reuse PPE and all the bullshit about testing....

It would be great if someone just stood there and told us the truth."

You and I both (on all points here).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science."

I see the root of your problem.

"We have a government working as hard as they can".

This is your error, have a read of the article today in The Times. Highlighting Boris Johnson doing a big bag of fuck all about virus situation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Say again? lol

4 crashes in 2020

15 in 2019

20 in 2018

11 in 2017

24 in 2016

. . . . .

Your chances of dying in a plane crash are roughly 1 in 5,000,000. Your chances of dying walking down the street are roughly 1 in 500.

Statistically you you could fly from London to New York every day for 14,500 years before being involved in a crash. Flying is by far the safest way to get from A to B

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Say again? lol

4 crashes in 2020

15 in 2019

20 in 2018

11 in 2017

24 in 2016

. . . . .

Your chances of dying in a plane crash are roughly 1 in 5,000,000. Your chances of dying walking down the street are roughly 1 in 500.

Statistically you you could fly from London to New York every day for 14,500 years before being involved in a crash. Flying is by far the safest way to get from A to B"

7.8 billion people on the planet and 160 thousand dead that a pretty low statistic too. (and no I'm not saying COVID isn't a worry)

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By *llabouttheladyMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

Not massively in to politics, even though I’m a TU rep. All I can say is that there is no “idiots guide to dealing with Covid-19” out there for any government or employer to pick up.

Yes, they’ve made mistakes, but it was a fast and every moving feast, potentially hidden to the rest of the world before it got let loose.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but how many people in January really thought this bastard of a virus would cause this much devastation?

Just look how many nobjockeys ran out panic buying bog roll, pasta flour and yeast ffs.

As much as I think Boris is a bit of a clown, I don’t honestly think Corbyn et-al would have handled this any better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not massively in to politics, even though I’m a TU rep. All I can say is that there is no “idiots guide to dealing with Covid-19” out there for any government or employer to pick up.

Yes, they’ve made mistakes, but it was a fast and every moving feast, potentially hidden to the rest of the world before it got let loose.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but how many people in January really thought this bastard of a virus would cause this much devastation?

Just look how many nobjockeys ran out panic buying bog roll, pasta flour and yeast ffs.

As much as I think Boris is a bit of a clown, I don’t honestly think Corbyn et-al would have handled this any better."

There's no "idiot's guide". But there was the WHO giving advice based on scientific knowledge and understanding. Other governments followed the advice. Boris chose not to, which has lead to extra deaths.

Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Not massively in to politics, even though I’m a TU rep. All I can say is that there is no “idiots guide to dealing with Covid-19” out there for any government or employer to pick up.

Yes, they’ve made mistakes, but it was a fast and every moving feast, potentially hidden to the rest of the world before it got let loose.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but how many people in January really thought this bastard of a virus would cause this much devastation?

Just look how many nobjockeys ran out panic buying bog roll, pasta flour and yeast ffs.

As much as I think Boris is a bit of a clown, I don’t honestly think Corbyn et-al would have handled this any better."

Have you read the article?

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By *rsbrooksandjohnCouple
over a year ago

Swansea

Just a quick poll of this forum.

How many of you stood in the last election for any party

How many of you could not be assed to vote in the last election

And finally how many are qualified with the relevant degrees etc to comment on the current situation or would swap places with the government right now.

Yes mistakes have been made not only by the government but also by the health advisors and sage . Did anyone watch the select committee on BBC2 THE OTHER DAY even the guy at the head of sage admitted some vital information was only refered too in background papers and not used to preduct this

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

[Removed by poster at 19/04/20 15:03:32]

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Just a quick poll of this forum.

How many of you stood in the last election for any party

How many of you could not be assed to vote in the last election

And finally how many are qualified with the relevant degrees etc to comment on the current situation or would swap places with the government right now.

So members of the gmnt are only only allowed to Express an opinion?

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

A government is really only as good as it's experts - most experts that consult with government are in the private or educational or medical sphere. (ie. Not the Government)

Hope we all blame them too when we come to 'The Reckoning'.

Meanwhile. Let's see what we can all do now.

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By *ucianpoundCouple
over a year ago

Cap d’Agde, France

"Not massively in to politics, even though I’m a TU rep. All I can say is that there is no “idiots guide to dealing with Covid-19” out there for any government or employer to pick up.

Yes, they’ve made mistakes, but it was a fast and every moving feast, potentially hidden to the rest of the world before it got let loose.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but how many people in January really thought this bastard of a virus would cause this much devastation?

Just look how many nobjockeys ran out panic buying bog roll, pasta flour and yeast ffs.

As much as I think Boris is a bit of a clown, I don’t honestly think Corbyn et-al would have handled this any better."

We travelled to Thailand at the end of January and we, like many other passengers had face masks and gloves during the journey as did people in Bangkok, so yes, many of us were taking this virus seriously then.

Living in France now we have watched on with horror the ineptitude of the government handling of this crisis. At least Macron here has admitted that 'they balled it up" not making the sad excuses coming out of Gove this morning.

Bringing Corbyn into the argument is as pointless as Trump blaming Obama's administration for his governments response!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A government is really only as good as it's experts - most experts that consult with government are in the private or educational or medical sphere. (ie. Not the Government)

Hope we all blame them too when we come to 'The Reckoning'.

Meanwhile. Let's see what we can all do now.

In fairness, they did advise the government. The advice was ignored for weeks.

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By *llabouttheladyMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

Aye, but we’re British don’t forget, we always wait until the last minute

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Aye, but we’re British don’t forget, we always wait until the last minute

'An Englishman may walk but never run' Sting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Say again? lol

4 crashes in 2020

15 in 2019

20 in 2018

11 in 2017

24 in 2016

. . . . .

Your chances of dying in a plane crash are roughly 1 in 5,000,000. Your chances of dying walking down the street are roughly 1 in 500.

Statistically you you could fly from London to New York every day for 14,500 years before being involved in a crash. Flying is by far the safest way to get from A to B

7.8 billion people on the planet and 160 thousand dead that a pretty low statistic too. (and no I'm not saying COVID isn't a worry)"

What would be the death toll if we didn't do anything though? The issue isn't really about the numbers as such, it's did our government do everything they reasonably could to stop people dying, the answer is no. Whereas airlines, as proved by their safety record, do.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses."

I have an irrational hatred of Gove. I know I have a problem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses.

I have an irrational hatred of Gove. I know I have a problem

I have the non-irrational equivalent to this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shame it wasn't Paxman interviewing Gove, Marr just let him spout on and on his pathetic excuses.

I have an irrational hatred of Gove. I know I have a problem

I have the non-irrational equivalent to this.

He's got one of those faces only a mother could love...scrub that she give him away

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

As I recall the airline industry had malfunctioning Avoidance (air and ground) Radar since 1973 - and everybody knew they had - it wasn't until 2009 that it was mandated to fix it by federal and world agencies - at no time did they stop flying airplanes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/04/20 19:18:10]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I said that they're good now, I didn't say they'd always been good.

There came a point where the capitalists realised that you have to fork out for safety because if you crash a lot people won't fly on your planes and you stop making money.

Hopefully our government will have a similar revelation after the complete shambles they have made of this.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The UK government ran an investigation into the effects of an epidemic upon the country in October 2016. It was seen that the NHS would be overloaded.

There were several conclusions and recommendations made but they appear to have been ignored.

The government has continued to refuse to publish the report. Your life in their hands. The NHS has been phenomenonal in their response to this awful disease on our socety. I wish that we'd learned from our prior experience, which showed where supplies would be lacking and that so many health services lives had been prevented

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By *emma HoldenTV/TS
over a year ago

Ramsey

PPE shouldn't need an expiry date. Once made & sealed in a bag, what's to go wrong with a paper & plastic mask or a visor or gown? If I'm missing something here, please explain! Food I understand. Or tubes of glue going off due to solvents. But not PPE.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paper and plastic can naturally degrade over time. Air and temperature can cause items to become brittle. Volatile chemicals can also leach out of things like rubber seals so they don't flex properly anymore. Hence they have an expiry date. They can be re certified in some cases, but you need to run tests on a large sample.

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

Personally I just dont like Gove. I am of the opinion he is just in it to make sure is name is on some sort of massive reform by the time he is booted out.

Every department he has headed had a massive overhaul, just look at what he did to education.

Hindsight is brilliant and awful at the same time. Would have, should have, and could have dont help the current situation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My partner is an NHS nurse and has seen certain PPE items come into the system with use by dates 3 or 4 years past...

The whole system is in meltdown

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My partner is an NHS nurse and has seen certain PPE items come into the system with use by dates 3 or 4 years past...

The whole system is in meltdown"

If they have been recertified then this is fine. Things don't automatically work perfectly 1 day before an expiry date then fail 1 day after. It just means they need checking. Depending in how they are stored items can go years past dates and be perfect. If they have been stored badly, they can fail years before an expiry date.

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By *oredcouple1TV/TS
over a year ago

kirkcaldy

The masks being used expired approx 3 yrs ago, they have been recertified however the elastic and seal have to be inspected before use because of possible deterioration, however before corona any thing that was passed its expiry date was classed as a fail by infection control and was destroyed

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science."

Maybe only the Chinese, Italians and Spaniards can reflect on hindsight.

We saw it coming from early February based on their tragic experiences, yet here we are towards the end of April still talking about inadequate PPE, delayed supplies etc etc.

Maybe someone should have pointed out in January that if C19 came this way, it would be likely victims would need hospitalisation and cared for by people who would be putting their own lives (and those of their families) at grave risk to do so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gove is probably the most duplicitous man in a government of liars. Remember £350 million a week for the NHS? When ever you see him wheeled out you know it's to defend or deflect from a serious issue.

These people treat politics like a debate from the private school debating club. The facts are not important - persuasion is! To them, It's about winning an argument by being clever with words, not answering questions and deflecting.

The problem is that, to us,it is about the facts... because it's facts that affect our lives.....

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By *edbath 5Man
over a year ago

london

"Yes. It was from out of date (but re-tested stock) and sent as a Humanitarian Response to China.

It was sent with the best of intention.

I wasn't questioning that whatsoever.

Sounded like you just wanted an anti government rant because you would have also mentioned that it was when chi na was going through their worst time and we have received more back many times over then we gave them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything. "

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers!

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By *edbath 5Man
over a year ago

london

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers! "

And here lies the problem.

Also trying to tell the country. Especially all the anti Boris people that he’s going to shut down the country because a couple of people were ill and maybe one or two dead. The would have been uproar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers! "

It was obvious that it would make its way to Europe. Look at SARS, H1N1 and the UK 2016 respiratory pandemic exercise. This exercise made recommendations about PPE and respirators which were not acted on.

I had to travel long distance for work in January and our team were all aware of the virus and that it would be spread by travel. If we were aware, then the people in Government are either negligent, too stupid to deserve their roles or possibly both - considering how little action they took back then.

It's not about Tory or Labour - it's about stupidity, negligence and lazyness.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Gove is probably the most duplicitous man in a government of liars. Remember £350 million a week for the NHS? When ever you see him wheeled out you know it's to defend or deflect from a serious issue.

The problem is that, to us,it is about the facts... because it's facts that affect our lives.....

The bus thing was Johnson

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is that, to us,it is about the facts... because it's facts that affect our lives.....

The bus thing was Johnson"

There were quite a few people on the bus.... including many who are now in Government.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers! "

When Professor Neil Fergusson told them there would be up to 500,000 deaths if they did not stop the inclination to let the herd immunity be their course of action they changed tack and went with lock down..

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By *edbath 5Man
over a year ago

london

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers!

It's not about Tory or Labour - it's about stupidity, negligence and lazyness."

Not of the above mentioned shut down the country. You seriously wouldn’t be able to convince the country on something that never got out of control here.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers!

It's not about Tory or Labour - it's about stupidity, negligence and lazyness."

The last paragraph is absolutely on the money, this virus has no affiliations yet some are so blinkered they will try to deflect or ignore the reality of what has happened and how this government is dealing with the crisis..

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

The facts are we sent them far less than they have sent us since so as a story it is out of context

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The facts are we sent them far less than they have sent us since so as a story it is out of context"

the report on pandemic preparedness a couple of years ago may shed some light onto how we were equipped resources wise, but the government has locked it away..

Why?

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By *ucianpoundCouple
over a year ago

Cap d’Agde, France

The Brexit issue has completely polarised people’s attitude to politics, you’re either for or against the government . So it’s not a surprise

when some people will try to deflect criticism of their ‘team’ by blaming the opposition or making facetious remarks like ‘Corbyn would have done worse’

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By *edbath 5Man
over a year ago

london

"The Brexit issue has completely polarised people’s attitude to politics, you’re either for or against the government . So it’s not a surprise

when some people will try to deflect criticism of their ‘team’ by blaming the opposition or making facetious remarks like ‘Corbyn would have done worse’"

I think the momentum mob have ruined political

debate forever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Trying to suggest that Corbyn may or may not have done better is pointless. The fact is, Boris was told inaction would make the situation worse, but for whatever reason he didn't do anything.

You do not know this! You are merely believing everything that you read and that sells papers!

It's not about Tory or Labour - it's about stupidity, negligence and lazyness.

Not of the above mentioned shut down the country. You seriously wouldn’t be able to convince the country on something that never got out of control here. "

I think you would if there was an example of pre lockdown...and during lockdown......an example such as Wuhan?

People need to forget party affiliations and look at the facts. It happened in China and it was obvious it was going to spread. We had the results of a respiratory pandemic exercise from 2016 which showed the NHS could not cope without a plan including stockpiles of PPE, more ventilators and training. We cannot say that we didn't know it was coming and we should have been better prepared.

What do we pay these people to do?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I wasn't really taking a cheap pop shot at anyone.

I simply get fed up with all the negativity. We have a Government working as hard as they can against something that they have never had to work against before and all they get is criticism.

Of course they will make some mistakes, this Virus is new, it is unique and it is bloody deadly!

Hindsight is the worlds best science.

Maybe only the Chinese, Italians and Spaniards can reflect on hindsight.

We saw it coming from early February based on their tragic experiences, yet here we are towards the end of April still talking about inadequate PPE, delayed supplies etc etc.

Since the first death was reported in January in China, how would we know about the risk to health care workers? I infer that the implication is we had opportunities to learn from February onwards...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes. It was from out of date (but re-tested stock) and sent as a Humanitarian Response to China.

It was sent with the best of intention.

I wasn't questioning that whatsoever.

You inferred that. I have no beef with the govt helping others and receiving help. I pointed out I was picking up on the fact we had pandemic stock. So back on your political pedestal with ya

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The facts are we sent them far less than they have sent us since so as a story it is out of context"

Oh bloody heck peeps, the China context is just part of the story, NOT THE essence of the thread.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The Brexit issue has completely polarised people’s attitude to politics, you’re either for or against the government . So it’s not a surprise

when some people will try to deflect criticism of their ‘team’ by blaming the opposition or making facetious remarks like ‘Corbyn would have done worse’

I think the momentum mob have ruined political

debate forever. "

How so?

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"And of course we all have our own personal pandemic stocks, because we all plan for these events."

I dare say those pesky doomsday survivalist, will have a bigger pandemic stock. I would go as far to say, they didn't rush out bulk buying toilet rolls and hand wash either.

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By *edjuliaCouple
over a year ago

Cork

Like it or not but you have a new breed of politician over there and in USA and perhaps this might reverse that in both countries. Nearly happened to us in Ireland with our last election and we see the benefit now that it did not

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