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NHS - Time to save it? - pt2

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester

The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?"

I'm guessing there is going to be another big one.

There seems a lot of myths around the nhs (and the public sector in general)..gold plated pensions,bonuses,top heavy bureaucracy..however i think when this is over..its going to change 1 way or another..some seem to be pushing for a Germany type system..but as we are out of the EU I fear it will be closer to America.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?"

I think anyone working in the NHS should be getting danger pay right now.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?

I think anyone working in the NHS should be getting danger pay right now."

We got a speech today about how invaluable the work we are doing is(we are supporting the nhs)

Let's see if that translates into an actual pay rise as a reward.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?

I think anyone working in the NHS should be getting danger pay right now."

I would apply that to some TFL workers as well.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

For those talking about greater efficiencies and cost savings in the NHS might be interested in a 2011 study published in Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. It found the NHS was one of the most cost effective health systems in the western world.

Any desire for private sector involvement in the is driven by ideology of selling off state assets to the private sector.

On a personal note I have a sibling in the USA, who has required hospitalisation for CV19. She is self employed and had health insurance, 6 days in hospital has left her with a bill just shy of $40,000.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"For those talking about greater efficiencies and cost savings in the NHS might be interested in a 2011 study published in Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. It found the NHS was one of the most cost effective health systems in the western world.

Any desire for private sector involvement in the is driven by ideology of selling off state assets to the private sector.

On a personal note I have a sibling in the USA, who has required hospitalisation for CV19. She is self employed and had health insurance, 6 days in hospital has left her with a bill just shy of $40,000.

"

40k!fucking hell!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NHS isn't broken it just has to many people needing it. I'm donating personally to my local NHS as much as I can afford and happy to pay more tax for the amazing thing that we are all grateful for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"NHS isn't broken it just has to many people needing it. I'm donating personally to my local NHS as much as I can afford and happy to pay more tax for the amazing thing that we are all grateful for. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NHS isn't broken it just has to many people needing it. I'm donating personally to my local NHS as much as I can afford and happy to pay more tax for the amazing thing that we are all grateful for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"NHS isn't broken it just has to many people needing it. I'm donating personally to my local NHS as much as I can afford and happy to pay more tax for the amazing thing that we are all grateful for. "

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

There’s a parrot in here .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There’s a parrot in here .....

"

Echo... echooo ....echoooooo

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By *xMFM3sumsxxWoman
over a year ago

SouthWest Lancashire

Bearer of doom here but i really don't think much will change unless everybody needs life saving treatment.

Most people right now fear catching a disease and so the NHS is seen as vital to them right now. After the pandemic people just won't care again as they'll be back at work, possibly struggling themselves and valuing something other than the NHS and see money as being more important elsewhere.

If anything they'll maybe be more against uneccessary treatment (IVF for example). Humans in general seem to be fundamentally selfish and only become communal when it benefits them to do so.

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London


"For those talking about greater efficiencies and cost savings in the NHS might be interested in a 2011 study published in Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. It found the NHS was one of the most cost effective health systems in the western world.

Any desire for private sector involvement in the is driven by ideology of selling off state assets to the private sector.

On a personal note I have a sibling in the USA, who has required hospitalisation for CV19. She is self employed and had health insurance, 6 days in hospital has left her with a bill just shy of $40,000.

"

And that's why we need to protect the NHS.

I have family stateside. Seeing a doctor starts at $100

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester

I recall when the national lottery bid was open to companies to operate it that virgin Ltd wanted to give 100% of all profit to charities.

For some reason Camelot won it.

My point is that if we really wanted to find the cash to help support the NHS and pay nurses and doctors and all within it more as well as back credible charities we really could.

The government has a private interest not a national interest.

Afterall the prime minister is the first minister of the royal families treasury and reports to the queen once a week for informing her how hes making sure her private vault isnt making a loss.

Surely without wasting money on illegal wars and propping up dictator ships for oil we could perhaps spend more on:

NHS

Medical research

All of the emergency services including police.

Even make better schools and better roads and better bus shelters lol

We have progressive taxation but even after tax we never ask why off shore safe havens exist for the super wealthy nor why we find it hard to get taxes from oligarchs and major companies.

We propped up a bank or 2 during the 2018 asset backed sup prime securitisation debacle even rather than blaming the bankers and getting something from them for creating food banks in the first place.

We seem to have misplaced our collective values.

Rather than ask if something is morally correct we simply retort well if it's legal its correct.

What's wrong with us all? We rather an actress gets paid loads for shopping her breasts or an actor for looking handsome rather than for a health care worker in a care home that provides care for the elderly who's kids are unable to look after for whatever excuse I mean reason.

And of rant

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By *BWarksCouple
over a year ago

warwick

Save the nhs ....... the only way to do that is for us all to get back to work .... it’s our tax that pays for it ....

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Save the nhs ....... the only way to do that is for us all to get back to work .... it’s our tax that pays for it ...."

My post directly above this sheds light on ways to fund the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two cleaners died in the hospital where I work of covid19 last week. You won’t hear anything about them on the news.

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Two cleaners died in the hospital where I work of covid19 last week. You won’t hear anything about them on the news. "

Sorry to hear this. More are being shown but yes very little is said about cleaners and bus drivers etc

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?"

No

The NHS needs to be "fixed" but no amount of money can do that, millions are wasted daily, everything they buy costs 10x what it should, the tendering system is pathetic.

Too many layers of management talking about reform

I've absolutely no idea how it can be done as it's too much of a shambles

Funny how gp surgeries and a&e normally full of people with headaches and sore throats are suddenly empty ?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?

No

The NHS needs to be "fixed" but no amount of money can do that, millions are wasted daily, everything they buy costs 10x what it should, the tendering system is pathetic.

Too many layers of management talking about reform

I've absolutely no idea how it can be done as it's too much of a shambles

Funny how gp surgeries and a&e normally full of people with headaches and sore throats are suddenly empty ?

"

In the nhs 3.7% of its staff are management.

In the private sector the average is 15%

I feel as if this top heavy management theory a bit of a myth tbh.

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By *itonmyfacebookMan
over a year ago

Burton on Trent


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?"

I seriously hope not but by the way folks were performing up to this year the solution of full privatisation may be presented and bought by a socialist hating public.

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By *itonmyfacebookMan
over a year ago

Burton on Trent

[Removed by poster at 24/04/20 10:53:22]

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'm hoping the governming party will be too afraid to not redress their lack of involvement for 10 years, which has put the service in to such a compromised state. But, it's possibly naive, as their ideology wants that, rather than to value it and to invest properly.

The public will clap but are readily hoodwinked by liars and conmen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Bearer of doom here but i really don't think much will change unless everybody needs life saving treatment.

Most people right now fear catching a disease and so the NHS is seen as vital to them right now. After the pandemic people just won't care again as they'll be back at work, possibly struggling themselves and valuing something other than the NHS and see money as being more important elsewhere.

If anything they'll maybe be more against uneccessary treatment (IVF for example). Humans in general seem to be fundamentally selfish and only become communal when it benefits them to do so."

Regretfully, I'm inclined to agree with this one

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By *he riverdeep69Couple
over a year ago

North west ish

People have been abusing the NHS for years: missed appointments, rocking up at A&E for a broken finger nail, over inflated expectations. Now people are seeing the real value. If people had to pay (like in the states) would they abuse it so much?

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester

they've made a shambles of the NHS so we go down the private route as the USA.

Don't be taken in by the propaganda.

Its not difficult to fix the NHS but the right politicians aren't being put into power.

Unless we the people stand up and change the disparity of what's important to us as a people as a nation as a family we have no chance but to let it sink.

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By *otnew16Man
over a year ago

Dartford

In my humble opinion, the NHS staff have always deserved more, but just for a start they should all be paid... tax free for as long as this virus persists as a token gesture, before talks begin over just how much these brave and selfless heroes really are worth to us ALL.

THANK YOU NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS medical care is one if the worlds most envied medical systems by citizens world wide (citizens not companies or governments due to its sheer cost and loss of revenue to companies). There are many issues that have been raised over this pandemic and the recent years. One of the biggest is waste of money, the biggest waste we can see is in major projects ie new hospitals, new IT systems etc. There is also the research facilities and data that is provided to private drug companies with no profits returned to the NHS, private operations the pre and post OP care is expected to be free by the NHS, if you pay for an operation you should pay for pre and post op care .Operating theatres and medical equipment shouldn't be rented out for private treatment it should be used for NHS patient care. If doctors want to do private treatment they do it outside NHS facilities and the care they provide covers pre op the op and post op care. If you have treatment abroad and it goes wrong yours or the practices insurance pays if you dont have it then you pay...a waiver should be signed stopping litigation against the NHS so all you can claim against is the individual not the NHS...

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By *eddy and legsCouple
over a year ago

the wetlands


"The NHS medical care is one if the worlds most envied medical systems by citizens world wide (citizens not companies or governments due to its sheer cost and loss of revenue to companies). There are many issues that have been raised over this pandemic and the recent years. One of the biggest is waste of money, the biggest waste we can see is in major projects ie new hospitals, new IT systems etc. There is also the research facilities and data that is provided to private drug companies with no profits returned to the NHS, private operations the pre and post OP care is expected to be free by the NHS, if you pay for an operation you should pay for pre and post op care .Operating theatres and medical equipment shouldn't be rented out for private treatment it should be used for NHS patient care. If doctors want to do private treatment they do it outside NHS facilities and the care they provide covers pre op the op and post op care. If you have treatment abroad and it goes wrong yours or the practices insurance pays if you dont have it then you pay...a waiver should be signed stopping litigation against the NHS so all you can claim against is the individual not the NHS..."

There's lots of reasons

Example

A few years ago a team from Australia came over a d did cataract operations that the NHS couldn't handle

They were doing one every 20 minutes and travelled round quite a few hospitals using their theatres

Was that a bad thing ?

Most compensation claims would be thrown out of court but they are too expensive to defend

The law needs sorted not the doctors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As someone who has spent more than half their adult life working for the NHS I can safely say that if you want to save the NHS the most effective way is not to vote Conservative.

We have a decades long barrage of negativity from the Conservative party and their friends in the right wing press about how inefficient the NHS is and how it needs to tighten it's belt etc. that are simply not true.

The NHS is one of the most efficient healthcare providers in the world. in 2010 the NHS had it's shortest waits for treatment and best patient satisfaction scores ever, it cost less per head of population to run than any other healthcare system in comparable nations. Since then it has seen cut after cut after cut which has resulted in chronic under-staffing, lengthy waiting lists and missing of vital targets such as cancer treatment and A&E waits.

Add to this the horrific slashing of social care budgets and you have a perfect storm for crippling the NHS.

The NHS routinely runs at 100% capacity for months on end and every piece of evidence says anything over 85% is dangerous, if you want to save the NHS stop voting for the party that cripples it every time it is in government.

I'm not saying vote Labour, I'm saying don't vote Conservative.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"As someone who has spent more than half their adult life working for the NHS I can safely say that if you want to save the NHS the most effective way is not to vote Conservative.

We have a decades long barrage of negativity from the Conservative party and their friends in the right wing press about how inefficient the NHS is and how it needs to tighten it's belt etc. that are simply not true.

The NHS is one of the most efficient healthcare providers in the world. in 2010 the NHS had it's shortest waits for treatment and best patient satisfaction scores ever, it cost less per head of population to run than any other healthcare system in comparable nations. Since then it has seen cut after cut after cut which has resulted in chronic under-staffing, lengthy waiting lists and missing of vital targets such as cancer treatment and A&E waits.

Add to this the horrific slashing of social care budgets and you have a perfect storm for crippling the NHS.

The NHS routinely runs at 100% capacity for months on end and every piece of evidence says anything over 85% is dangerous, if you want to save the NHS stop voting for the party that cripples it every time it is in government.

I'm not saying vote Labour, I'm saying don't vote Conservative."

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?"

Expect a token pay rise, or another bout of clapping as it gets rejected again.

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By *rofessor_MarcusMan
over a year ago

Chorley

It might well be worth watching to night's Panorama on 'I' player. A total government disaster but I won't spoil it for you all. The definition of 'Hero' is worth listening out for as is the change of spec for Corvid virus.

And don't forget whilst watching it 'Get Brexit done!,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The previous post got full so quickly that I felt it was better to continue the discussion as this is something we should all be passionate about so please continue if you have things to reply to or add to the discussion.

Original post can be found here:

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/1003315

And this was my initial question:

Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS?

Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it?

What are your thoughts and views?

I think anyone working in the NHS should be getting danger pay right now.

We got a speech today about how invaluable the work we are doing is(we are supporting the nhs)

Let's see if that translates into an actual pay rise as a reward."

Howikely do.younthink it os.with Tories at the helm?

Even though the PM was treated by the NHS..

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By *bsolutebeginnersCouple
over a year ago

Planet Ork


"As someone who has spent more than half their adult life working for the NHS I can safely say that if you want to save the NHS the most effective way is not to vote Conservative.

We have a decades long barrage of negativity from the Conservative party and their friends in the right wing press about how inefficient the NHS is and how it needs to tighten it's belt etc. that are simply not true.

The NHS is one of the most efficient healthcare providers in the world. in 2010 the NHS had it's shortest waits for treatment and best patient satisfaction scores ever, it cost less per head of population to run than any other healthcare system in comparable nations. Since then it has seen cut after cut after cut which has resulted in chronic under-staffing, lengthy waiting lists and missing of vital targets such as cancer treatment and A&E waits.

Add to this the horrific slashing of social care budgets and you have a perfect storm for crippling the NHS.

The NHS routinely runs at 100% capacity for months on end and every piece of evidence says anything over 85% is dangerous, if you want to save the NHS stop voting for the party that cripples it every time it is in government.

I'm not saying vote Labour, I'm saying don't vote Conservative."

I’ve spent the majority of my adult life working for the nhs and I’ve had to endure the 5 year pay freeze followed by the insulting 1% pay rise. I also realise that the belt needed to be tightened by the government because of over investment by the previous labour government where money was thrown at the nhs but Blair put too much trust in Adam Smith's “hidden hand” to drive greater efficiency. But he made a fundamental error by putting the power in the hands of the providers and not the purchasers. He built up mighty foundation hospitals and independent treatment centres first, neglecting weak and feeble primary care trusts without the managerial clout to power his great market machine. Instead, the hospitals sucked money out of the pockets of the primary care trusts' inexperienced finance directors. Money was wasted by investing in the wrong areas. Hopefully once this crisis is over then this current government can strategically invest in areas of the nhs that need it most.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

[Removed by poster at 27/04/20 22:34:47]

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By *bsolutebeginnersCouple
over a year ago

Planet Ork

I also realise that it took the Conservative party over six years to try and reduce the deficit left to them by the labour parties overindulgence.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"As someone who has spent more than half their adult life working for the NHS I can safely say that if you want to save the NHS the most effective way is not to vote Conservative.

We have a decades long barrage of negativity from the Conservative party and their friends in the right wing press about how inefficient the NHS is and how it needs to tighten it's belt etc. that are simply not true.

The NHS is one of the most efficient healthcare providers in the world. in 2010 the NHS had it's shortest waits for treatment and best patient satisfaction scores ever, it cost less per head of population to run than any other healthcare system in comparable nations. Since then it has seen cut after cut after cut which has resulted in chronic under-staffing, lengthy waiting lists and missing of vital targets such as cancer treatment and A&E waits.

Add to this the horrific slashing of social care budgets and you have a perfect storm for crippling the NHS.

The NHS routinely runs at 100% capacity for months on end and every piece of evidence says anything over 85% is dangerous, if you want to save the NHS stop voting for the party that cripples it every time it is in government.

I'm not saying vote Labour, I'm saying don't vote Conservative.

I’ve spent the majority of my adult life working for the nhs and I’ve had to endure the 5 year pay freeze followed by the insulting 1% pay rise. I also realise that the belt needed to be tightened by the government because of over investment by the previous labour government where money was thrown at the nhs but Blair put too much trust in Adam Smith's “hidden hand” to drive greater efficiency. But he made a fundamental error by putting the power in the hands of the providers and not the purchasers. He built up mighty foundation hospitals and independent treatment centres first, neglecting weak and feeble primary care trusts without the managerial clout to power his great market machine. Instead, the hospitals sucked money out of the pockets of the primary care trusts' inexperienced finance directors. Money was wasted by investing in the wrong areas. Hopefully once this crisis is over then this current government can strategically invest in areas of the nhs that need it most."

Has privitasion not increased in the last 10 years?

Dominic raab was on radio 4 today denying any further privitision despite being shown a report he had co-authoured about how hospitals can become more profitable.

They can literally lie through their teeth and the gullible will buy it.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"I also realise that it took the Conservative party over six years to try and reduce the deficit left to them by the labour parties overindulgence. "

It's an endless argument.

You could go back and say labour only overspend because of the Thatcher years.

The pay freezes were down to ideological reasons not financial ones.The money has always been there.

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By *inkykat dirtydogCouple
over a year ago

Cov

It's not going to change unfortunately. If anything it's going to get harder, the last decade of austerity forced upon all public spending will be nothing compared to the ensuing financial crisis from this virus, it will be brutal and will impact all government spending including the NHS.

It seems unfair a lot of key workers seem to be in lower paid jobs, NHS staff, supermarket workers and carers etc but that is not going to change what ever crisis hits. It just the way of the world unfortunately, its by no means a fair system at all.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Time to rethink it all..

It's near broken...

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By *illupMan
over a year ago

Stoke-on-Trent


"I recall when the national lottery bid was open to companies to operate it that virgin Ltd wanted to give 100% of all profit to charities.

For some reason Camelot won it.

My point is that if we really wanted to find the cash to help support the NHS and pay nurses and doctors and all within it more as well as back credible charities we really could.

The government has a private interest not a national interest.

Afterall the prime minister is the first minister of the royal families treasury and reports to the queen once a week for informing her how hes making sure her private vault isnt making a loss.

Surely without wasting money on illegal wars and propping up dictator ships for oil we could perhaps spend more on:

NHS

Medical research

All of the emergency services including police.

Even make better schools and better roads and better bus shelters lol

We have progressive taxation but even after tax we never ask why off shore safe havens exist for the super wealthy nor why we find it hard to get taxes from oligarchs and major companies.

We propped up a bank or 2 during the 2018 asset backed sup prime securitisation debacle even rather than blaming the bankers and getting something from them for creating food banks in the first place.

We seem to have misplaced our collective values.

Rather than ask if something is morally correct we simply retort well if it's legal its correct.

What's wrong with us all? We rather an actress gets paid loads for shopping her breasts or an actor for looking handsome rather than for a health care worker in a care home that provides care for the elderly who's kids are unable to look after for whatever excuse I mean reason.

And of rant "
bravo

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By *mcouple2Couple
over a year ago

Warrington


"I recall when the national lottery bid was open to companies to operate it that virgin Ltd wanted to give 100% of all profit to charities.

For some reason Camelot won it.

My point is that if we really wanted to find the cash to help support the NHS and pay nurses and doctors and all within it more as well as back credible charities we really could.

The government has a private interest not a national interest.

Afterall the prime minister is the first minister of the royal families treasury and reports to the queen once a week for informing her how hes making sure her private vault isnt making a loss.

Surely without wasting money on illegal wars and propping up dictator ships for oil we could perhaps spend more on:

NHS

Medical research

All of the emergency services including police.

Even make better schools and better roads and better bus shelters lol

We have progressive taxation but even after tax we never ask why off shore safe havens exist for the super wealthy nor why we find it hard to get taxes from oligarchs and major companies.

We propped up a bank or 2 during the 2018 asset backed sup prime securitisation debacle even rather than blaming the bankers and getting something from them for creating food banks in the first place.

We seem to have misplaced our collective values.

Rather than ask if something is morally correct we simply retort well if it's legal its correct.

What's wrong with us all? We rather an actress gets paid loads for shopping her breasts or an actor for looking handsome rather than for a health care worker in a care home that provides care for the elderly who's kids are unable to look after for whatever excuse I mean reason.

And of rant bravo"

Labour voter I guess

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I recall when the national lottery bid was open to companies to operate it that virgin Ltd wanted to give 100% of all profit to charities.

For some reason Camelot won it.

My point is that if we really wanted to find the cash to help support the NHS and pay nurses and doctors and all within it more as well as back credible charities we really could.

The government has a private interest not a national interest.

Afterall the prime minister is the first minister of the royal families treasury and reports to the queen once a week for informing her how hes making sure her private vault isnt making a loss.

Surely without wasting money on illegal wars and propping up dictator ships for oil we could perhaps spend more on:

NHS

Medical research

All of the emergency services including police.

Even make better schools and better roads and better bus shelters lol

We have progressive taxation but even after tax we never ask why off shore safe havens exist for the super wealthy nor why we find it hard to get taxes from oligarchs and major companies.

We propped up a bank or 2 during the 2018 asset backed sup prime securitisation debacle even rather than blaming the bankers and getting something from them for creating food banks in the first place.

We seem to have misplaced our collective values.

Rather than ask if something is morally correct we simply retort well if it's legal its correct.

What's wrong with us all? We rather an actress gets paid loads for shopping her breasts or an actor for looking handsome rather than for a health care worker in a care home that provides care for the elderly who's kids are unable to look after for whatever excuse I mean reason.

And of rant bravo

Labour voter I guess "

You guess incorrectly. Refrain from guessing and add value to the discussion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I also realise that it took the Conservative party over six years to try and reduce the deficit left to them by the labour parties overindulgence. "

Austerity was a purely ideological decision and has completely failed to reduce the deficit caused by the 2008 financial crash, in fact hasn't our national debt more than doubled?

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By *bsolutebeginnersCouple
over a year ago

Planet Ork

The deficit in 2010 was 10% of GDP.

Since 2010 under the coalition and Conservative governments, the deficit has fallen considerably and is expected to be 1.3% of GDP this year (2019/20).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The deficit in 2010 was 10% of GDP.

Since 2010 under the coalition and Conservative governments, the deficit has fallen considerably and is expected to be 1.3% of GDP this year (2019/20). "

Apologies, I meant national debt.

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By *bsolutebeginnersCouple
over a year ago

Planet Ork

The conservatives had no choice but to increase national debt to kick start the stagnating economy. They were fiscally prudent in general, spending as little as possible, hence austerity. What would you have preferred? Even deeper cuts to public services to cut the defecit and pay off national debt? The left already claim the cuts were too deep and austerity too harsh. The left can’t have it both ways, claiming cuts were too deep and at the same time complaining about the national debt being too high.

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By *bsolutebeginnersCouple
over a year ago

Planet Ork

Debt accumulates exponentially and you only start to pay off debt when you stop running at a deficit and start running at a surplus, labour invested heavily and increased the deficit when we went into a recession (ridiculous thing to do) and left a huge amount of debt which has been accumulating, tories have reduced the deficit massively (hence the public spending cuts) and are close to running at a surplus, at which point they can start to reduce the national debt.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"The conservatives had no choice but to increase national debt to kick start the stagnating economy. They were fiscally prudent in general, spending as little as possible, hence austerity. What would you have preferred? Even deeper cuts to public services to cut the defecit and pay off national debt? The left already claim the cuts were too deep and austerity too harsh. The left can’t have it both ways, claiming cuts were too deep and at the same time complaining about the national debt being too high."

Kick start the economy?

The economy that has stagnated over the last 10 years?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"The conservatives had no choice but to increase national debt to kick start the stagnating economy. They were fiscally prudent in general, spending as little as possible, hence austerity. What would you have preferred? Even deeper cuts to public services to cut the defecit and pay off national debt? The left already claim the cuts were too deep and austerity too harsh. The left can’t have it both ways, claiming cuts were too deep and at the same time complaining about the national debt being too high.

Kick start the economy?

The economy that has stagnated over the last 10 years?"

It's not all about the economy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The conservatives had no choice but to increase national debt to kick start the stagnating economy. They were fiscally prudent in general, spending as little as possible, hence austerity. What would you have preferred? Even deeper cuts to public services to cut the defecit and pay off national debt? The left already claim the cuts were too deep and austerity too harsh. The left can’t have it both ways, claiming cuts were too deep and at the same time complaining about the national debt being too high."

I would've preferred that they invest in the country, increase the minimum wage, and increase tax at the higher end of the spectrum. People weep and wail about those earning huge amounts being taxed more but they are the very people who can afford not to pay tax. A tax increase for these people is in some ways symbolic but it sends a message. Increasing the wages of those at the lower end of the spectrum has a double positive effect of increasing the amount of tax collected and also boosting the economy through spending. People on low wages spend far more money than people on high wages. Give a person earning £12k a year an extra £2k and they will spend it, give a person on £150k a year an extra £2k and they will squirrel it away somewhere not to be seen again for years.

If you want to stimulate the economy and increase the amount of tax you collect you make sure the people who spend and don't avoid paying tax have more income. It's really quite simple.

However if you are ideologically opposed to the welfare state and the NHS you use a financial crash to slash and burn the public sector and talk as if the economy of a nation can be run the same as that of a household, which is an utter nonsense believed only by the hard of thought.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My family are suing them adding to the 2 billion pounds worth of people who sue for medical negligence each year

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My family are suing them adding to the 2 billion pounds worth of people who sue for medical negligence each year"

That will help.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"My family are suing them adding to the 2 billion pounds worth of people who sue for medical negligence each year

That will help."

It does in the long run

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My family are suing them adding to the 2 billion pounds worth of people who sue for medical negligence each year

That will help.

It does in the long run "

It really doesn't, all it does is entrench blame cultures and authoritarian management styles. NHS trusts have a lot to imp[rove on when it comes to clinical errors and unfortunately every costly pay out makes them less likely to develop a culture of openness and learning.

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